back to article Forking hell. It's summer, and Windows 10 is already thinking about autumn

Microsoft's army of Windows Insiders got a treat last night in the form of a fresh build of Redmond's other OS. You know, the one that isn't based on Linux. The Register does not normally cover every single Windows Insider build, but 17713 is a bit of a milestone. Before the usual gushing over new functionality, the …

  1. This post has been deleted by its author

    1. LDS Silver badge

      Well, if you install beta software you're being expected to find and report bugs... the problem when "stable" builds are still used to find most bugs...

      1. Jeroen Braamhaar

        That implies there are stable, non-beta builds of Windows10.

        Found in the same category as hen's teeth, unicorn farts and honest politicians.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          I believe given the current state of DNA research hen's teeth are easier to find than honest politicians.

      2. This post has been deleted by its author

        1. LDS Silver badge

          "That was my point - the supposed stable build released"

          Sure, but this article was about a Windows Insider build - that's essentially a beta. And I pointed out too the real problem is when MS released builds which were still full of bugs.

          I don't believe a voluntary beta program like Windows Insider may help much to test a large software like Windows, there's a good chance its members don't represent the actual Windows users well enough, they are probably mostly a "nerdish" population using just a smaller subset of the common Windows hardware, and also probably reinstalling more often.

          No surprise ugly findings appear when it reaches other hardware, especially that of people who get a clean OS only when they buy a new PC (if "clean" can be applied to some system ridden of vendors bad and useless "utilities".

          1. This post has been deleted by its author

            1. fandom Silver badge

              Re: "That was my point - the supposed stable build released"

              No, it means that since the last release they have added" a lot of exciting new functionality" (TM) and that now they will make certain the new stuff is stable.

              You can check my post history, since I am not AC, I like to laugh at MS as much as anyone, but your interpretation makes no sense whatsoever.

              1. This post has been deleted by its author

            2. LDS Silver badge

              Re: "That was my point - the supposed stable build released"

              It's not the first time a software vendor focused too much on new features just to find the release ended up being too buggy, so the next one focus on stability.

              The problem is often features attract users more than stability, so part of a company may push for them a bit too much. I have to admit it happened to my software as well.

              1. Adam 1 Silver badge

                Re: "That was my point - the supposed stable build released"

                > The problem is often features attract users more than stability

                Concepts like stability* are by nature intangible. New OS supports latest VR toy? Great. New OS boots 8% faster? Awesome. New OS lasts 11% longer on batteries whilst playing 4K video stream? Nice. These are all tangible benefits where a user can decide whether they want faster boot times, longer battery life or the latest gizmos. But something that's now stable might be tangible to someone running Windows ME, anything from XP+ was never inherently unstable, at least until you started installing kernel mode webcam drivers. At scale, instability may be measurably better today, but to an individual user, they won't notice if the mean time to rebuild is a month longer than it was 3 years ago. Sad. But true.

                *Substitute quality, privacy or security, it works equally well.

          2. JDX Gold badge

            Re: "I don't believe a voluntary beta program like Windows Insider may help much"

            One imagines MS have data gathered to tell them objectively how helpful it is.

            1. bombastic bob Silver badge
              Trollface

              Re: "I don't believe a voluntary beta program like Windows Insider may help much"

              Micro-shaft effectively kicked out everyone from their 'insider' program who wasn't a fanboi of the 2D FLATSO, the "the Metro", the "the Store", the "the Start Thing", the "the Slurp", the "the Ads", the "cram it into your rectum" forced updates, and so on, back during the 'grand purge' right before Win-10-nic was first released.

              They don't want to listen to actual CUSTOMERS and DEVELOPERS. They just want their FAN BASE "testing" it, so they can hear how great it is an how the bugs aren't that bad...

    2. Chronos Silver badge
      Gimp

      Is Windows 10 free on new PC's or do the vendors have to pay Microsoft ??? - seems to be a scam.

      I think it's actually a huge social experiment. There are so many other options available. MacOS, Linux of all flavours from Mint to Slack, a Pi with Rasbpian desktop, the BSDs, hell, you can even run Android if you're willing to put up with it.

      But no, people still run WinX(beta) and find all the bugs for the enterprise rollouts simply because that's what was pre-installed. That's like crapping yourself because in your pants is where your arse happened to be at the time. We'll probably find out the whole thing is a test to see how far a vendor can push its users before they sod off and find something that actually works.

      Icon. Some of these people have to be Masochists.

      1. This post has been deleted by its author

        1. Chronos Silver badge

          With all the issues ongoing - {Facebook, Google, Microsoft}=GDPR, Microsofts Windows 10 issues, continuous data exposure or hacking of personal information, then corporations are really taking the p!ss out of people. People are very much like sheep - ambivalent and ignorant to the reality.

          ...which is sort of what I was hinting at without standing on a box, pointing and saying it j'accuse style. How quickly can we get to 100C without the frog jumping out?

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          "unless they know someone who can help them install another OS."

          Fortunately most people who know a person eager to help install a new OS on their PC have learnt to never ever allow that person to get their hands on their shiny new PC.

      2. Captain Scarlet Silver badge
        Stop

        "find all the bugs for the enterprise rollouts"

        Cobblers, we still find lots of bug in the Enterprise version (1703).

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    " rebrand to Notepad 365 cannot be far behind"

    Sure. It will also save files to MS cloud only...

    1. Shadow Systems Silver badge

      Re: " rebrand to Notepad 365 cannot be far behind"

      Don't forget every copy will come with Clippy preinstalled, can't be removed, can't be shut off, & will helpfully erase your drive(s) if you attempt to save locally. =-J

  3. Buzzword

    Notepad to support *nix line endings

    This is long, long, long overdue.

    It’s either a case of too little, too late; or Microsoft finally listening to end users. Time will tell.

    1. MiguelC Silver badge

      Re: Notepad to support *nix line endings

      Who cares about what Notepad does or doesn't support? If you need anything else you choose one of the myriad of free or paid-for tools available (Notepad++ and UltraEdit come to mind)

    2. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Unhappy

      Re: Notepad to support *nix line endings

      "Microsoft finally listening to tired o' the hate mail from end users"

      Fixed. you're welcome. Micro-shaft STOPPED actually LISTENING to customers, several years ago. They may PRETEND now and then, but we've been IGNORED since Windows "Ape".

      To Micro-shaft, customers are MINIONS, or "Borg Drones", to be EXPLOITED, and MONETIZED. To individuals working at Micro-shaft, you might get some actual good service, but their internal bureaucracy [yes I've had to deal with it] is BEYOND some of the worst nightmares I've ever had related to GUMMINT bureaucracies... let alone a 'for profit' company that RELIES on customers paying for their products!!!

      1. Phil Kingston Silver badge

        Re: Notepad to support *nix line endings

        Bad day?

  4. djstardust Silver badge

    Hmmmm

    Windows update service = disabled

    Windows modules installer = disabled

    Job done.

    P.S. Why do they spend so much time on Edge browser when absolutely no-one uses it?

    1. ScissorHands

      Re: Hmmmm

      Having their own HTML renderer is the only way they can get a seat on the table and not be pushed out of the Web by others entending-extinguishing, like Apple almost did to mobile browsing with the proprietary extensions to Safari on iOS.

    2. This post has been deleted by its author

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Hmmmm

      Why do they spend so much time on Edge?

      Simple really. They want the default mode for windows 10 to be 'S'. That way Edge is the only available browser (unless they less something else into the App Store...).

      I'm sure that MS will soon start charging for the upgrade from 'S' to Home and double that for 'S' to Pro.

      And if it can't phone home the upgraded OS could revert to 'S' and you'd have to pay again and again and again.

      I'm joking about the last thing as my W7 system decided that the license key was invalid and I had to get it validated by MS only this morning. The System is not connected to the internet and has never been and never will be. Having to get it re-authenticated is a PITA it is a genuine effing license that I paid good money for.

      1. bombastic bob Silver badge
        Unhappy

        Re: Hmmmm

        "my W7 system decided that the license key was invalid and I had to get it validated by MS "

        beyond 2020 will they STILL do that for ya?

        After my MSDN subscription renewal was completely 'cocked up' last year, I actually ended up getting refunded for an entire years' worth [I was willing to pay the normal price, but after a couple of months they're like "we're all settled" and I'm like "o...k..."] I technically need to change the license keys on any version of windows I have installed on test machines and in VMs ... but I hardly use them these days, and the old keys are still working (last I checked). Go fig. I do have one reconditioned 7 box I purchased on e-bay to make sure I could have one non-MSDN license for doing accounting and stuff with. No regrets on that one. I don't run windows update on it, either.

        But yeah, when 2020 hits, will our windows 7 boxen suddenly STOP WORKING???

        /me doing cross-platform WIN32 and X11 application at the moment, so i still need MSDN, yeah

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Hmmmm

      "Windows update service = disabled"

      Also means "Windows security = disabled". Fortunately most people aren't capable or stupid enough to actually do this.

    5. Adam 1 Silver badge

      Re: Hmmmm

      > Why do they spend so much time on Edge browser when absolutely no-one uses it?

      Blatant lies. I certainly appreciate improved quality for those times when I need to download Firefox.

  5. Version 1.0 Silver badge
    Facepalm

    17713 is relatively light on features

    I use all versions of Windows from Vista onward every day - and my conclusion is that, from a point of view of getting things done from hour to hour, there's very little difference. Each one has its quirks and they move the various system function controls around but basically, as an end-user, they are all the same.

    1. picturethis
      Black Helicopters

      Re: 17713 is relatively light on features

      "I use all versions of Windows from Vista onward every day - and my conclusion is that, from a point of view of getting things done from hour to hour, there's very little difference. Each one has its quirks and they move the various system function controls around but basically, as an end-user, they are all the same."

      I think this is kind-of the problem (from Microsoft's point of view, anyways)...

      MS needs/wants a continous income stream from Windows and they are trying to get it by:

      - Subscription-based Office 365

      - Microsoft Store (buying apps, games)

      - Inside-OS advertising

      In order to enforce this, Window's 10 OS is being used as the jailer (keeps everyone in a narrow user-profile). By enforcing updates, Microsoft can change their marketing and Windows 10 users have no choice but to accept "updates", upgrades all under the guise of better security.

      But the problem for MS is the age-old problem of being able to lead a horse to water, but not able to force it to drink (the cool-aid)..

      How many "features" has MS put into 10 - Groove, photos, etc? and how many people use them? Hell, I don't even know what 90% of them do and I have no desire to even find out. I just need the OS to run the (mostly non-MS sponsored) apps to get my work done or play games.

      And that's really all an OS should do - and that is my primary objection with Windows 10 - that of it being used as a hammer to beat its users over the head with and to spy on them.

      I may have to use Win10 at my current job, but the Windows 10 OS is not on any of my 6 machines at home (not even in a dual-boot configuration and includes dozens of VMs). Right now it's 50/50: 3 linux boxes, 2 Win 7 and 1 win 8.1. The win 7 machines are laptops with special HW devices w/ no linux support.

      I currently have no plans to ever have a Windows 10 machine within my home network.

    2. Adam 1 Silver badge

      Re: 17713 is relatively light on features

      > and they move the various system function controls around

      This is the antithesis of productivity, or what you've called getting things done. I am embarrassed to admit how long it took me to get my Windows 10 laptop to connect to our work VPN. They tried to dumb it down to about 5 edits, drop-down menus and checkboxes, and in the process moved the settings that are needed behind 6 or 7 mouse clicks.

  6. Baldrickk Silver badge

    Features I want to see:

    Stabilisation of the OS is good.

    Along with that can we also have stabilisation of the UI?

    - you know, so we only have one way of changing settings, instead of being split across two separate disparate applications with different conventions.

    Unfortunately, *nix gaming isn't yet quite at the same level as Windows gaming, so I'm going to have to keep using it for a while to get the best experience.

  7. Martin Summers Silver badge

    Crappy windows apps being core functionality cause so many issues, not to mention the duplication (done badly) of control panel options within that windows apps framework. Windows 10 still doesn't know what it is after the failed tablet experiment that was Windows 8.

  8. VooDooMonkey

    Why use Edge?

    Have you used it recently? Yes, at first and for a while it was a pile of crap. But now, compared with the bloat of Firefox and Chrome, Edge is really bloody good.

    1. Updraft102 Silver badge

      Re: Why use Edge?

      Unless it has the breadth of addons that pre-Quantum Firefox had and Waterfox has, I know it won't even come close to being good enough. Oh, and it only runs on 10, so... pass.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Why use Edge?

        After working in computer security for 25 years I avoid browser addons like the plague as they increase the surface area to an unquantifiable extent and so diminish security.

        1. Updraft102 Silver badge

          Re: Why use Edge?

          After working in computer security for 25 years I avoid browser addons like the plague as they increase the surface area to an unquantifiable extent and so diminish security.

          Ok, you do that, and I will continue to use NoScript and uBlock Origin, and we can see which of us is more susceptible to security threats. Ok?

    2. soulrideruk Bronze badge

      Re: Why use Edge?

      Have you used it recently? Yes, at first and for a while it was a pile of crap. But now, compared with the bloat of Firefox and Chrome, Edge is really bloody good.

      Except for the fact that it doesn't open PDF's..

      I keep forgetting to set my PDF's to open in Firefox, and so they open in Edge, except they don't, Edge just hangs as a white screen and I have to use Task Manager to kill it with Fire.

      As that is my only attempt to use Edge these days, I cannot agree that Edge is 'really bloody good' as it fails in the single job it has every time...

      1. roeltz

        Re: Why use Edge?

        Edge does indeed open PDF files. I wonder what could be wrong in your setup.

        1. soulrideruk Bronze badge

          Re: Why use Edge?

          It doesn't really matter because:

          a) Edge only ever launches when I forget to open the PDF with the correct program.

          b) Like many of the other complaints that appear about MS products, it's probably user/system error rather than a fault with MS code. However, people always like to blame the MS rather than themselves.

          I have done a fresh re-install of windows 10 with the same problem after installation and updating, but Edge is not my browser of choice anyway, so no big deal.

          1. stephanh Silver badge

            Re: Why use Edge?

            There exists nowadays even Edge for Android, and it is surprisingly good. Although I don't see how I can install an adblocker, which is the reason I normally use Firefox on Android.

            Posted from Edge for Android.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Why use Edge?

      I used Chrome from the day it was released as I agreed with the security design principles. Now I still use it on my desktop but find it too bloated and slow for my tablet so use Edge there. The biggest irritation of Edge is that when I do a Google search it "invites" me to switch to the Chrome browser.

  9. Updraft102 Silver badge

    Windows 10 venerable?

    Did you mean abominable?

  10. MrKrotos

    PDFs in Edge

    @soulrideruk, I have also given up on Edge because it crashes opening PDFs, I have the same issue and know there are many more as I have looked in to it (for work, I am not interested myself).

    1. Baldrickk Silver badge

      Re: PDFs in Edge

      Same here. Started breaking after a Windows update.

      Not bothered looking into it either, just switched to something that works.

  11. Dagg
    Pint

    Hey in Aus we're ok

    It is another 6 months until summer and 3 more to autumn, so we have a whole 9 months for you poor bastards in the northern hemisphere to bed it down.

    This is a good reason to be 6 months a head on seasons and at 24 hours a head on time.

    1. soulrideruk Bronze badge

      Re: Hey in Aus we're ok

      errr...

      24hrs ahead in time would put you back in Australia exactly 1 day later, and I am pretty sure Australia isn't 24hrs ahead of Australia.

      You are however 12 hours ahead of the UK, and generally less in Europe.

POST COMMENT House rules

Not a member of The Register? Create a new account here.

  • Enter your comment

  • Add an icon

Anonymous cowards cannot choose their icon

Biting the hand that feeds IT © 1998–2019