back to article UK taxman warned it's running out of time to deliver working customs IT system by Brexit

Plans to implement a new customs system for Brexit are still fraught with risk and the taxman has yet to fully engage with users and traders who rely on them, the UK's spending watchdog has said. Amid growing concerns that the government's systems are not ready to cope with the extra pressures Brexit will bring, the National …

  1. }{amis}{ Silver badge
    FAIL

    Berxit Or Not

    The tax office is an underfunded mess of outsourced contracts I would be surprised if the could even locate the own asses in the deadline provided.

    Leave out update all their systems to match a spec that hasn't even been finalised yet.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Don't be cretinous

      Rees-Mogg has explained that after Brexit there will be no need for customs checks.

      There's no point having a system at all so it doesn't matter that it doesn't have requirements.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Don't be cretinous

        "Rees-Mogg has explained that after Brexit there will be no need for customs checks.

        As he and other Leaver campaigner leaders like Nigel Lawson have moved their business interests or homes to other EU countries. Nigel Farage denies applying for a German passport - he has just made sure his children have them as well as their English ones.

        1. BebopWeBop Silver badge

          Re: Don't be cretinous

          And Lord Lawson - that great Brexit supporter is seeking his French residence certificate. Luckily we are all (in my family) dual British/Irish citizenship.

          1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

            Re: Don't be cretinous

            "Luckily we are all (in my family) dual British/Irish citizenship."

            SWMBO, children and grandchildren are entitled to claim Irish citizenship. Even my cockney BiL is. I'm not.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Don't be cretinous

              SWMBO, children and grandchildren are entitled to claim Irish citizenship. Even my cockney BiL is. I'm not.

              If you're married to an Irish citizen, and living in Ireland, for at least 3 years you can request it. Seems a reasonable criterion to get citizenship of a country.

              1. Aitor 1 Silver badge

                Re: Don't be cretinous

                Six years in the uk AND more than 3x.000 £ per year.

      2. Pen-y-gors Silver badge

        Re: Don't be cretinous

        Rees-Mogg has explained that after Brexit there will be no need for customs checks

        I've never quite understood that (or anything he says, to be honest)

        Surely the whole point of Brexit was to 'take back control' of our borders? How do you do that without customs checks?

        Is it that I am a bear of very little brain and don't really understand these complicated things, or is Rees-Mogg simply a mendacious idiot?

        1. John G Imrie Silver badge
          Coat

          Re: Don't be cretinous

          The latter, or possibly both as I don't know you, but defiantly not the former on it's own.

          Mine is the one with the dual Irish/UK nationality registration in it. I wish :-(

        2. Dan 55 Silver badge

          Re: Don't be cretinous

          We will control our borders by not controlling them.

          If a country bordering the UK controls their borders, they are terrible people and they're doing it to get at us.

          Let's pretend we've never heard of WTO rules stating that if two countries don't have a customs agreement then they must run ports of entry.

        3. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

          Re: Don't be cretinous

          "Is it that I am a bear of very little brain"

          I doubt it. You've never seemed that way here.

          1. Pen-y-gors Silver badge

            Re: Don't be cretinous

            @Dr Syntax

            "Is it that I am a bear of very little brain"

            I doubt it. You've never seemed that way here.

            Aw, gee, <blush>, thanks! Or are you thinking that I actually seem to be a wildebeest or walrus of very little brain?

        4. Dr_N Silver badge
          Trollface

          Re: Don't be cretinous

          Pen-y-gors> or is Rees-Mogg simply a mendacious idiot?

          No. he's just guilty of terminological in-exactitude.

        5. Fonant

          Re: Don't be cretinous

          Rees-Mogg is simply a mendacious idiot.

        6. Lars Silver badge
          Thumb Down

          Re: Don't be cretinous

          Even more idiotic a la Rees-Mogg (with his read lines) is that he claims the UK will not set up a boarder with Ireland and thus let all EU members come across the NI boarder freely to Britain.

          That is indeed controlling ones boarders.

        7. Lyndon Hills 1

          Re: Don't be cretinous

          I think what he meant is that for the import side, we can charge whatever tarriff we want, so if we have no tarrifs then we have no processing of imports to do. Exports are really the responsibility of the receiving country so again no need for the UK to do anything.

          This would be to ignore export controls we might enforce on weapons etc, that would still need handling, although there might not need to be much or any chnage here. It would also suggest that people can bring in rabid animals, nuclear material, drugs and so....

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Don't be cretinous

            >It would also suggest that people can bring in rabid animals, nuclear material, drugs and so....

            How can we get people to bring in rabid drugs and nuclear animals?

          2. Tom 7 Silver badge

            Re: Don't be cretinous

            @lyndon Hills 1

            What he meant is "I haven't a fucking clue what I'm talking about but it should sound good for brexiters desperate for this problem to go away'

            Quite simply, if we dont implement some form of border control then someone else will as if we dont it we could be shipping any form of shit in and out. This will take the form of "not trading with us with anything other than humanitarian aid".

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Don't be cretinous

              "This will take the form of "not trading with us with anything other than humanitarian aid"."

              IIRC emergency relief shipments to various countries have been detained indefinitely - while the receiving government insisted on the local import duties being paid.

          3. Pen-y-gors Silver badge

            Re: Don't be cretinous

            @Lyndon Hills 1

            I think what he meant is that for the import side, we can charge whatever tarriff we want, so if we have no tarrifs then we have no processing of imports to do. Exports are really the responsibility of the receiving country so again no need for the UK to do anything.

            It's not as simple as that (although the Quitlings don't seem to be able to think beyond stage 1)

            No controls on imports also means no checks on standards. Electrically unsafe goods being imported? Poisonous toys? Dodgy Yankee food? Okay, that may be acceptable (erm, actually, no). But those items could then be exported with a 'Made in Great England' sticker - and the EU won't be happy to receive those. What were they saying about common standards?

        8. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Don't be cretinous

          "Rees-Mogg simply a mendacious idiot?" --- Pen-y-Gors

          He's a friend of a friend. He's certainly not an idiot. But I think he has wholeheartedly embraced the zeitgeist, where airily authoritative statements can be made not only without justification but in direct contradiction to easily checked facts.

        9. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Academics

          Well at least he said he's not interested in being PM. Which is fortunate, because most of the country is in agreement with that.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Academics

            "Well at least he said he's not interested in being PM."

            Being PM would make him responsible for his actions - no chance of him falling into that trap. He wants to be behind the throne - power without responsibility.

            1. Voyna i Mor Silver badge

              Re: Academics...He wants to be behind the throne - power without responsibility.

              We all know what profession has power without responsibility, which suggests that, given the number of politicians, the abolition of prostitution will never be fully successful.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: Academics...He wants to be behind the throne - power without responsibility.

                " the abolition of prostitution will never be fully successful."

                Well they would say that - wouldn't they?

        10. maffski

          Re: Don't be cretinous

          '...Is it that I am a bear of very little brain and don't really understand these complicated things, or is Rees-Mogg simply a mendacious idiot?'

          Might be useful to remember that customs checks and customs declarations are not the same thing.

          We only perform checks on about 2% of imports - which I think includes the mandatory checks on all livestock.

          CHEIF looks to be an olde world messaging system with mainframe database so boosting it's performance to the required levels should actually be quite straightforward. Which probably means they'll try to rush CDS instead...

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Don't be cretinous

            "CHEIF looks to be an olde world messaging system with mainframe database so boosting it's performance to the required levels should actually be quite straightforward."

            Quite, but the mainframe and olde world messaging systems vendors are going to squeeze HMRC for everything they're worth.

            In addition to the core platform there's also a rather large number of reporting and workflow solutions that sit around it that'll need to be adapted to account for:

            - Increased number of declaration

            - Increased size of declarations

            - Increased complexity and variety of declarations

            - Massively increased user base (both internal and external) etc. etc.

            It's not complicated, but it's a lot of work for a system that was pencilled to be retired early next year.

      3. Voyna i Mor Silver badge

        Re: Don't be cretinous

        "Rees-Mogg has explained that after Brexit there will be no need for customs checks."

        In the century in which Rees-Mogg lives, people like him don't even need passports. They just go on the Grand Tour and loot statues and paintings from Italy and Greece.

        1. John Smith 19 Gold badge
          Unhappy

          In the century in which Rees-Mogg lives, people...go on the Grand Tour and loot statues..

          That's just a wild exaggeration.

          In the 1450's* no one did "Grand Tours" as the Black Death was abroad across the land.

          The CofE was founded in 1534 and JRM is an ardent Papist. Any later and he would definitely be on Francis Walsinghams Watch List, probably with an associated pre filled out death warrant.

      4. TheVogon Silver badge

        Re: Don't be cretinous

        "Rees-Mogg has explained that after Brexit there will be no need for customs checks."

        With the EU that is potentially correct. If you are in a negotiation for a free trade agreement you can maintain your existing standards for ten years under WTO rules.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Berxit Or Not

      "The tax office is an underfunded mess of outsourced contracts..."

      CDS and CHIEF are being run in-house by HMRC badged people. Consideration of whether this is an improvement over Aspire is an exercise left to the reader.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Berxit Or Not

        "whether this is an improvement over Aspire

        For those no longer working for CapGemini or Fujitsu I believe that it has been an improvement. YM, as ever, MV.

    3. tmTM

      Re: Berxit Or Not

      Isn't it abit hard to implement a new system when the idiots in charge can't even agree how we intend to actually leave the EU.

    4. Ian Emery Silver badge

      Re: Berxit Or Not

      I have been trying to get them to take notice of the fact that my HMRC account is corrupted since January; I have now asked if I can send my 2016/17 returns on paper, as they seem unable to even answer me, let alone fix the issue.

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Good luck exporting goods (to which the article makes no mention)

      The article covers the role of HMRC in terms of incoming goods, but not much in terms of the seamless bullshit - frictionless border regards exporting goods to the EU.

      There has been no software tender for any of this, so make of that what you will. If the rollout of Universal Credit is anything to go by, we're talking years - a decade.

      In the meantime, the EU will be crossing all the t's and dotting all the i's, for sure and rightly so, they have EU standards to protect. The Netherlands aren't taking any chances that's for sure.

      Theresa May is average intelligence at best, isolated and pretty much clueless. We're heading for a perfect shitstorm.

      She'll probably just have a coughing fit, resign and walk, that's the best we can hope for.

      1. Dan 55 Silver badge

        Re: Good luck exporting goods (to which the article makes no mention)

        There has been no software tender for any of this, so make of that what you will. If the rollout of Universal Credit is anything to go by, we're talking years - a decade.

        Meanwhile, in Rotterdam, they're planning dry-run customs controls to test how things would perform after Brexit.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I think Boris Johnson said it best

    F*ck Business!

    This is merely one mechanism among many for implementing that policy. Eventually moving your company from Britain to the EU will be as easy a decision as moving flat from Camden to Islington.

    1. Rich 11 Silver badge

      Re: I think Boris Johnson said it best

      I almost pity Boris Johnson, because the next time he stands for any election at all he's going to find himself permanently surrounded by posters and signs bearing that quote.

      Yes, I almost pity him. Almost.

      1. Eponymous Cowherd

        Re: I think Boris Johnson said it best

        I almost pity Boris Johnson, because the next time he stands for any election at all he's going to find himself permanently surrounded by posters and signs bearing that quote.

        That.

        And pictures of bulldozers.

        1. John G Imrie Silver badge
          Coat

          Re: I think Boris Johnson said it best

          Someone please tell me that there is a Mr. Prosser working for the Heathrow Runway planning department.

          Could someone please fetch my coat, it's the one with the towel in the pocket.

      2. andrewj

        Re: I think Boris Johnson said it best

        "I almost pity Boris Johnson"

        I don't. He's supposed to represent the country, yet shuffles around looking like a tramp who hasn't had a haircut for months. Bloody disgrace.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: I think Boris Johnson said it best

          >He's supposed to represent the country, yet shuffles around looking like a tramp who hasn't had a haircut for months. Bloody disgrace.

          I agree, but the sorry truth is that he is the living embodiment of how the rest of the world views the British.

        2. Voyna i Mor Silver badge

          Re: I think Boris Johnson said it best

          "I don't. He's supposed to represent the country, yet shuffles around looking like a tramp who hasn't had a haircut for months."

          That haircut costs him about £28 from Geo. F Trumpers last time I looked at their prices. It's to make him look youthful. Apparently.

          Johnson is 54 going on 13. He's still pretending to be the naughty but funny new bug at Eton, presumably because it causes some knickers to fall off.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: I think Boris Johnson said it best

            <i"[...] presumably because it causes some knickers to fall off."

            I never perceived Boris as the Alcibiades of Eton - but maybe there are more general political parallels.

            A Welsh acquaintance had a "little boy lost" demeanour - a combination that was like a magnet for some women. In his 30s it suddenly stopped working.

    2. Roland6 Silver badge

      Re: I think Boris Johnson said it best

      Eventually moving your company from Britain to the EU will be as easy a decision as moving flat from Camden to Islington.

      Eventually? I thought it was that simple now; or are you suggesting post-Brexit the 'EU' will be offering inducements and relocation support?

  3. Teiwaz Silver badge

    Going by recent Gov. IT project failures, overruns. delivery shortfalls and general waste of money chasing the buzzing tinkerbell of agile, bambi or frolicking fauns, not a chance before the deadline.

    I predict a return to rampant smuggling, Cornwall tourism and tri-point hats (but only because of the new Poldark).

    1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      "bambi"

      I don't think he counts any longer even if he does seem sound on Brexit.

    2. Nick Kew Silver badge

      @Teiwaz - we were just talking about that a couple of days ago, as we walked a scenic section of coast path with ample scope for smugglers alongside the leisure boats of the modern rich. Can't see anyone finding the money to restore Napoleonic-era defences.

      Though of course if there's no enforced border in Ireland, the smugglers will have a line of even less resistance to bring Trump's industrial-scale farmers' growth-hormone-filled beef into the EU until road and rail capacity is exhausted.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Possibly a daft question but didn't someone somewhere in government not say we've voted leave but the timetable needs to be extended because we won't be ready therefore don't submit the leave letter to the EU just yet, we'll let you know when the two years is long enough.

    1. DJO Silver badge

      Well that would require a member of the current government to have both common sense and the minimal intelligence required to see Brexit is a can of festering dog shit and the courage to come out and say so in public.

      No, instead we'll just have May lurching from disaster to disaster all of her own making. There is absolutely no chance this will end well for the general populace.

      1. John Hawkins

        Actually I think she is a closet remainer and has a cunning plan - dither, procrastinate and faff around until everybody gives up out of sheer boredom, then say that as the UK doesn't have the infrastructure to leave, cancel the whole thing.

        Seems that way at least.

        1. Pen-y-gors Silver badge

          @John Hawkins

          I'd really, really like to believe that. I really, really would.

          But this sort of thing needs to be based on evidence, and the evidence is that she's completely lost, has no idea what to do next, and whose idea of long term planning is what to have for tea today. She staggers from one day to the next, with only the thought of keeping her party 'united' (Hah!) for another 24 hours and stuff the UK, the EU and everyone else.

          1. Roland6 Silver badge

            @Pen-y-gors @John Hawkins

            "But this sort of thing needs to be based on evidence, and the evidence is that she's completely lost, has no idea what to do next, and whose idea of long-term planning is what to have for tea today."

            Clever isn't it? She's clearly taken the White Mice approach to getting things done(*) to heart.

            Also, remember she was Home Secretay, so must have some useful contacts...

            So clearly Boris's total disappearance for the Heathrow vote wasn't an unfortunate coincidence but a dry run; expect things to happen when all three Brexit monkeys do a similar disappearing act - Afghanistan is a dangerous and unpredictable place, at a good arm's length distance and less hassle than crashing a helicopter into a Scottish hillside...

            (*) For an outline of their approach refer to HH2G and Slartibartfast's explanation.

        2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

          "Actually I think she is a closet remainer"

          I always thought she was a closet leaver and her remain credentials pre-referendum were just enough to keep her job on the assumption that remain would win. She's been brainwashed by the Home Office into fear of the ECJ. Right now I think she's still a closet Home Sec.

        3. Admiral Grace Hopper

          "Actually I think she is a closet remainer and has a cunning plan"

          Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

          1. Tom 7 Silver badge

            Re: Hanlons Razor

            this government could cut its throat with anything that sharp.

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            "Actually I think she is a closet remainer and has a cunning plan"

            Actually, Tony Robinson (and at least 100 000 other people who converged on London last weekend) *do* have a cunning plan.

            Please sign the petition for a People's Vote:

            https://www.peoples-vote.uk/petition

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: "Actually I think she is a closet remainer and has a cunning plan"

              at least 100 000 other people

              And they outweigh the 17 million who voted leave why, exactly?

        4. Teiwaz Silver badge

          Zoinks!!

          Actually I think she is a closet remainer

          I still remember the report of her uttering something on the lines of 'would like to stay in the EEC, but leave ECJ.' (when she was still with the remain camp).

          If true, that may have been the goal all along, once she got her chance, cut everything to implement whatever to achieve post-human rights britain, the ECJ regulation foiling her schemes like meddling mystery van kids has driven her barking...

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      >but didn't someone somewhere in government not say we've voted leave but the timetable needs to be extended

      You Sir, are traitorous remoaner scum for even suggesting such a thing.

      Enemies of the people like you should have their citizenship revoked and be packed off to the EUSSR to work as slaves for the Brussels eurocrates.

      1. Old69

        "Enemies of the people like you should have their citizenship revoked and be packed off to the EUSSR to work as slaves for the Brussels eurocrates."

        I was going to upvote this as a nice satire - then the awful thought struck that it sounded too like some Leavers I know.

    3. Just Enough

      A better Idea

      Here's a better idea. Now that the truly enormous clusterf***ck that Brexit is has become obvious to anyone paying attention, and now we know that the Leave campaign lied about the facts, their funding, and their motives, why can't it be put to the vote?

      If it's too much to expect the Tories to grow a backbone, risk their political careers, and save the country, then why can't they allow the country to decide for itself?

      1. Wellyboot Silver badge

        Re: A better Idea

        The main focus of the remain camp was indeed pointing out that leaving the EU would initiate everything bad that could possibly be imagined, up to and including 'end of days', and unfortunately the 'novelty' of politicians requiring fireproof pants isn't new enough to be used as reason to re run anything.

        Having lived through the 1970s near total economic collapse I assume the only events that could be substantially worse would have been in the early 1940s.

      2. Roj Blake Silver badge

        Re: why can't it be put to the vote?

        Because there's a strong chance that the result will be the same. And if that happens, you can kiss goodbye to any hope of anything but the hardest of hard Brexits.

        1. werdsmith Silver badge

          Re: why can't it be put to the vote?

          It's ridiculous that the vote was on some nebulous idea without anybody knowing what's really involved, and there will be no vote when we have hard facts about what the situation will be.

          The leavers don't want to because they are so democratic.....

          and afraid of the outcome.

          The non-voters who didn't bother because they assumed that the country isn't stupid enough to vote for economic ruin will definitely mobilise if there is a brexit2 vote.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: why can't it be put to the vote?

            The non-voters who didn't bother because they assumed that the country isn't stupid enough to vote for economic ruin

            Would that be the pro-leave non-voters, or the pro-remain non-voters? Or maybe just the don't-care non-voters?

          2. codejunky Silver badge

            Re: why can't it be put to the vote?

            @ werdsmith

            "It's ridiculous that the vote was on some nebulous idea without anybody knowing what's really involved, and there will be no vote when we have hard facts about what the situation will be."

            Regardless of the outcome.

            "The leavers don't want to because they are so democratic....."

            As proven by 20+ years in the EU with no vote because people would vote leave. Finally we did vote. And you now want a brexit2 vote because you are sure they would change their mind. And if they dont I wonder what excuse for another vote. Because one is not enough (unless its the 'right' answer).

            "The non-voters who didn't bother because they assumed that the country isn't stupid enough to vote for economic ruin will definitely mobilise if there is a brexit2 vote."

            Waa waa people who didnt vote would have voted my way so my side claims those who did not vote! Anything else would be democratic. Is that why remain propaganda has continued long after the result? While leave sat back and said 'see, I told ya'.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: why can't it be put to the vote?

              No need to have any future general elections then right? After all we decided on the government once, who needs to do it again?

              1. codejunky Silver badge

                Re: why can't it be put to the vote?

                @AC

                "No need to have any future general elections then right? After all we decided on the government once, who needs to do it again?"

                That seems to be the attitude for remainers except they claim a victory for a different referendum. Then when people have a meaningful vote democracy must be stopped because its the 'wrong' choice. It hasnt even been implemented yet and the knickers are in a twist.

                @Terry Barnes

                Are you claiming the Tories were never elected when Cameron was in charge? Or do you think the people can be ignored to which you can be proud you are being. Since the two main parties are brexit and the pro-EU parties lost massively in the last election it would seem you remain desirers need to elect a gov representing your views.

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: why can't it be put to the vote?

                  "Since the two main parties are brexit and the pro-EU parties lost massively in the last election [...]"

                  Many pro-EU voters did a tactical vote to try to deny May her large majority. That she could buy the DUP MPs' support for £2bn will weigh heavily on liberal consciences next time.

                  It was not obvious before the election that Corbyn was just like the Tories over Brexit. At the next election Labour will probably not have those tactical votes.

                  The Labour Party conference will be interesting as many of Corbyn's fervent supporters are pro-EU. My guess is he will show the authoritarian streak intrinsic to all apparent idealists - and will try to prevent a significant motion on the issue.

              2. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: why can't it be put to the vote?

                No need to have any future general elections then right? After all we decided on the government once, who needs to do it again?

                Say we have another vote, and it comes back for "remain". Would you be OK with a 3rd vote in 2019? And a 4th in 2020?

                Thought not.

                1. werdsmith Silver badge

                  Re: why can't it be put to the vote?

                  Say we have another vote, and it comes back for "remain". Would you be OK with a 3rd vote in 2019? And a 4th in 2020?

                  FFS.

                  A second vote would be based on the deal and actually knowing what the consequences are. An informed decision. Much more democratic and relevant than the first vote.

                  But as you mention it, with regard to governments and general elections, yes we do have 5-yearly opportunities to change.

                  1. codejunky Silver badge

                    Re: why can't it be put to the vote?

                    @ werdsmith

                    "A second vote would be based on the deal and actually knowing what the consequences are."

                    Aka a continuation of propaganda to claim all doom if we dare leave, misrepresentation of reality to claim good is bad and bad is good, and of course the fact that the EU is not known for competence at deals even though hard brexit is economically a better position than being in changes the focus for a 'good deal' when leaving is a good deal!

                    "Much more democratic and relevant than the first vote."

                    That would be the vote where the gov outright threatened the population to vote its way or else it will impose an extreme punishment budget on us? The democratic ideal where the treasury and BoE argued that while brexit will deliver their aim since 2008 it is a bad thing? The one where the administers of the vote couldnt remain impartial because they had to increase the pressure on the population not to vote leave? And you think leavers should be accepting of an unnecessary round 2 of a rigged vote?

                    "with regard to governments and general elections, yes we do have 5-yearly opportunities to change."

                    So we implement the change, then after that you can vote in elections for a party who will rejoin the EU if you want.

                  2. Anonymous Coward
                    Anonymous Coward

                    Re: why can't it be put to the vote?

                    A second vote would be based on the deal and actually knowing what the consequences are. An informed decision.

                    You're still deluding yourself that if only people had understood what they were voting for they would have seen the error of their ways and voted for the "right" choice. I'm surprised you'd allow a vote at all, much better to let the educated classes make the decisions, and keep the rabble in their proper place, eh?

                    Does it ever occur to you that one of the reasons people voted leave was because of that arrogant attitude from EU politicians? We're tired of hearing it from them, and we're tired of hearing it from their apologists.

                    1. Anonymous Coward
                      Anonymous Coward

                      Re: why can't it be put to the vote?

                      "Does it ever occur to you that one of the reasons people voted leave was because of that arrogant attitude from EU politicians? "

                      Some of my relatives voted Leave because they didn't like the number of immigrants from the Indian subcontinent who were concentrated in some areas of their city. Media and politicians' dog whistles have broad effects.

              3. TheVogon Silver badge

                Re: why can't it be put to the vote?

                "After all we decided on the government once, who needs to do it again?"

                You generally get the government that the majority voted for before doing it again though.

            2. Terry Barnes

              Re: why can't it be put to the vote?

              No vote apart from all the General Elections where a UKIP government could have been elected? How many MPs did they have? At their absolute peak - what was that number again? It must have been significant for the government to shortcircuit democracy and offer a direct binary choice on UKIP’s manifesto.

              Easiest path now is simply to cancel it and let the population elect a UKIP government if that is what they so wish.

              1. TheVogon Silver badge

                Re: why can't it be put to the vote?

                "No vote apart from all the General Elections where a UKIP government could have been elected? How many MPs did they have?"

                They got more votes than the SNP who had 50.

            3. Alt C

              Re: why can't it be put to the vote?

              to qoute your fav man Mr Ferage - a vote that close for reman would mean its unfinished business so he would have carried on as normal - so why is that OK for your lot but because you won we have to shut up?

              1. codejunky Silver badge

                Re: why can't it be put to the vote?

                @ Alt C

                "to qoute your fav man Mr Ferage - a vote that close for reman would mean its unfinished business so he would have carried on as normal - so why is that OK for your lot but because you won we have to shut up?"

                Normal for UKIP- offer change at the next election.

                Difference to the rabid remain- waaaa, we didnt lose if we rewrite the rules! Waaa, we should ignore the vote! Waa, people are stupid! Waa, I dont wanna lose play again! Waa, my shirt is wet from tears. Waaa.

                It isnt about rabid remainers shutting up, but their demands to invalidate democracy because it voted the 'wrong' way, demand a rerun or whatever other temper tantrum stop brexit crap is as embarrassing as having our own child screaming and crying in the floor in public.

                1. Roland6 Silver badge

                  Re: why can't it be put to the vote?

                  @codejunky

                  "Normal for UKIPUK politics - offer change at the next election."

                  What was so surprising about the In/Out referendum was that it was ever held, in the past the political parties simply said words to the effect: it's in the manifest, you voted for us, you will have your chance at the next election...

                  What was even more surprising was that the Conservative party took the result and actually went ahead. I think before reality set in, everyone was expecting the government/UK political establishment to bake-up some fudge.

                  Stepping back from the taunting, the reaction to the referendum result does raise questions about the democratic process; we had a vote many didn't like the result, what is the democratic way forward, what is an acceptable amount of time and many other questions do arise. But as we all know Westminster has reverted to form, T.May and her executive will do whatever and only inform Parliament and us once they have the agreement they want; assuming her Cabinet can agree among themselves...

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: A better Idea

        now we know that the Leave campaign lied about the facts, their funding, and their motives,

        As did remain.

        then why can't they allow the country to decide for itself?

        We've done that twice, once in a referendum and once in a fiasco of an election where the pro-remain parties saw their share of the vote drop (LibDems -0.5%, SNP -1.7%) and the pro-leave parties saw gains (Tories +5.5%, Labour +9.6%). Current surveys show that the result in a new referendum would be much the same as before, i.e. too close to call & down to the wire on the night. Do you really think having, say, a new 50.1% result for remain, or another 52% vote for leave, would actually improve anything, or end the arguments?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: A better Idea

          "[...] and the pro-leave parties saw gains [...]"

          Labour benefited from the tactical voting for ABC (anybody but Conservative).

          Corbyn was not obviously committed to the hard Brexit that his actions have since signalled. He has done enough since the election to convince many of those voters - plus even Momentum EU supporters - that he cannot be trusted on the issue.

          If those voters are inevitably doomed to go down with the Brexit ship - then they will nail their EU colours to the mast by not voting to support Corbyn.

      4. MonkeyCee Silver badge

        Re: A better Idea

        "we know that the Leave campaign lied about the facts, their funding, and their motives, why can't it be put to the vote?"

        Another referendum will have exactly the same legal footing as the previous one. It'll be advisory, and the government will use it as a flimsy justification for doing what they want.

        We're not leaving the EU because of the referendum, because all it was was a glorified opinion poll with no legal weight.

        We're leaving because Parliament voted to let the government go do the negotiating for it* and Parliament has also decided that it doesn't want to put any limitations on the government, and also it doesn't really want a vote on the final shape of decision.

        It would have been nice if Parliament hadn't just rolled over, since it's sovereign and could have told the government to go get fucked, but it turns out the lower house is full of people who are more attracted to the baubles of office rather than doing democracy any favors.

        New opinion poll won't change anything. Act of Parliament might, but the conservatives managed to buy off anyone seriously opposing it.

        * after the government lost in court

      5. Pen-y-gors Silver badge

        Re: A better Idea

        @Just enough

        Now that the truly enormous clusterf***ck that Brexit is has become obvious to anyone paying attention

        Sadly it seems that a large number of our fellow citizens aren't paying attention, and haven't been for years, otherwise the polls wouldn't show a large minority still in favour of national economic suicide. Personally I blame Facebook/TV/Video games/The Daily Mail <delete as appropriate>

      6. paulc

        Re: A better Idea

        "If it's too much to expect the Tories to grow a backbone, risk their political careers, and save the country, then why can't they allow the country to decide for itself?"

        Because the owners of the Brexit pushing press have the dirt on them and would kill their Political careers dead...

    4. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      " didn't someone somewhere in government not say we've voted leave but the timetable needs to be extended because we won't be ready therefore don't submit the leave letter to the EU just yet"

      I wouldn't be surprised. There's enough difference of opinion to cover all possibilities.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "establish new IT systems"

    So there is even more money to be wasted.

    1. werdsmith Silver badge

      Re: "establish new IT systems"

      "establish new IT systems"

      So there is even more money to be wasted."

      Give the contract to a French company.....

      1. Roland6 Silver badge

        Re: "establish new IT systems"

        >Give the contract to a French company.....

        What are you daft :)

        As any El Reg regular would know, the Spanish are the experts on financial systems development and delivery.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    No worries

    They’ll just apply enough duct tape to CHIEF to keep trade rolling. What could possibly go wrong?

    1. Joe Werner
      Angel

      Re: No worries

      Knowing how government agencies work they'll put the tape on sticky side out....

      Nananana - Katamari!

      ---> icon because it looks smaller than me...

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: No worries

        "Knowing how government agencies work they'll put the tape on sticky side out...."

        A company soundproofed their air conditioning ducts by adding the specified absorbent cladding material. Unfortunately the people doing the fitting stuck it inside the metal trunking - rather than on the outside They then had to crawl inside to remove it - with great difficulty.

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    How long to create such a system?

    With some real experience in bidding for, winning & then implementing Govt. systems,may I suggest that the timescales have been dreadfully under-estimated. Perhaps 1 year to gather the requirements & write a spec. Maybe another year for the competition. Then at least two more years to build it. Then another year at least to fix it!

    This adds up to a minimum of 5 years from the point where the Govt. tells HMRC what the new regime looks like. Dates in the range 2023-25 look very likely for such a new system. Knowing what it wants would be a great help, of course

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: How long to create such a system?

      CDS is an entirely new system that has yet to implemented. Its implementation has been rather dumped on by Brexit as it was due to go live somewhere around March/April 2019. As we may (or may not) be leaving the EU in some way or other at the same time it was thought wise to delay things and also make any Brexit-demanded changes to the new system before it went in. To make this happen HMRC need to keep CHIEF limping along coping with far more customs traffic than it was designed for until CDS is ready, Brexit actually happens or the heat death of the universe.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Those guestimates are just that guesses

    And when every business who can leave has left what will the Taxman do then eh?

    Why do I think they'll leave in their droves?

    Because HMRC and its £5000/day consultant friends will devise a system that is not only impossible to deliver but no one this side of Uranus can understand due to the inane complexities.

    Business when faced with 2-week delays to get anything in or out of Dover etc because the system does not work so everything has to be done with huge great ledgers and quill pens, will just give up and leave.

    In the end, it could all collapse in a heap and die.

    shudder. Could I be actually agreeing with Rees-Mogg? I really hop not.

    1. Admiral Grace Hopper

      Re: Those guestimates are just that guesses

      "I really hop not."

      Rimmer: I never agreed with my parents’ religion but I wouldn’t dream of knocking it.

      Lister: What were they?

      Rimmer: Seventh Day Advent Hoppists. They believed that every Sunday should be spent hopping. They would hop to church, hop through the service and hop back home again.

      Lister: What’s the idea behind that then?

      Rimmer: Well, they took the Bible literally. Adam and Eve, the snake and the apple, everything. Took it word for word. Unfortunately their version had a misprint. It was all based on 1 Corinthians 13, where it says “faith, hop and charity, and the greatest of these is hop.” So that’s what they did every seventh day. I tell you, Sunday lunchtimes were a nightmare. Hopping around the table serving soup. We all had to wear sou’esters and asbestos underwear.

      1. Rameses Niblick the Third Kerplunk Kerplunk Whoops Where's My Thribble? Silver badge

        Re: Those guestimates are just that guesses

        @Admiral Grace Hopper

        I approve of this comment

      2. Mark 110 Silver badge
        Pint

        Re: Those guestimates are just that guesses

        If I could upvote you more . . .

        Pint - but best not hop whilst drinking

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Those guestimates are just that guesses

        "Unfortunately their version had a misprint. It was all based on 1 Corinthians 13, where it says “faith, hop and charity, and the greatest of these is hop.”

        That has to be one of the best riffs on a simple typo.

        The biblical punchline was unexpected - but similar to other such misinterpretations. The novel "A Canticle for Leibowitz" illustrates such things with the religious duplication of blueprints by arduous hand drawing - until the day it is realised they are negatives of the meaningful schematics.

        1. GIRZiM Bronze badge

          Re: one of the best riffs on a simple typo

          Dunno - the Wicked Bible may have something to recommend it for your consideration.

  9. BebopWeBop Silver badge
    Facepalm

    Those contingency plans I assume include preparing a deep sand pit and getting ready to bury head, then rinse and repeat?

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Oh, I'm sure HMRC can find and hire some capable IT contractors to flesh out its IT teams.

    There must be some out there that it hasn't manage to alienate so far with its insistence on IR35 for F**KING EVERYTHING NO MATTER WHAT, etc.

  11. Crisp Silver badge

    "As is common with IT systems, even after testing issues may also emerge in the live environment."

    Common with the systems you write maybe.

    The stuff I write is tested properly.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: "As is common with IT systems, even after testing issues may also emerge...."

      So you only write for yourself?

      10 Print 'Hello World''

      20 Goto 10

      Oh - did I say I wanted 'Hello World'? I meant 'Goodbye Cruel World', and why is it printing continuously?Yes I know that''s what I said I wanted, but I didn't mean Print, I meant hum, and yes, I know I signed off the spec, but that was before last Thursday, and i've seen a brochure for this great new thing called the cloud, can we move it to the cloud?

    2. Warm Braw Silver badge

      Re: "As is common with IT systems, even after testing issues may also emerge ..."

      The stuff I write is tested properly

      Against what criteria? I find they're usually defined by people who don't actually understand the reality of the business process they're attempting to automate.

      1. Pen-y-gors Silver badge

        Re: "As is common with IT systems, even after testing issues may also emerge ..."

        Testing implies several levels - unit testing, integration testing and business testing (at the very least) - some of the most effective projects I ever worked on had a couple of experienced business users seconded to the development team to provide advice and answer questions during development, to write and execute the business test plans, and to help write the documentation and provide user training. The users got the systems they wanted and needed.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: "[...] even after testing issues may also emerge in the live environment."

      "The stuff I write is tested properly."

      There will always be the potential for some circumstance that breaks the designed constraints.

      A database (pre-SQL) had to handle a culture's names that had a common prefix. The designer chose to give each new name an incrementing number as a key token for the data records. It had a look-up phase to determine what number was assigned to a name. If it couldn't find the name in the look-up file then it assigned the next available number to it - and added it to the sorted look-up file.

      It was only when records for the most common name in the culture were being "orphaned" that it was realised something was going wrong.

      The reason was that the hardware search for a name in the look-up file was very occasionally returning a false "not found". The "new" name record with its new number then overwrote that entry in the look-up file. All previous instances that used the old number were thus "orphaned" from a key search.

      Eventually the problem was tracked down to the hardware in the disk controller. The fault occurred on a certain board if the voltage was within its required tolerance - but not quite spot-on optimal.

      1. tentimes

        Re: "[...] even after testing issues may also emerge in the live environment."

        That has to be one of the most horrible bugs of all time. I would have poured petrol on it all long before I got as far as checking the HD voltages.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: "[...] even after testing issues may also emerge in the live environment."

          " I would have poured petrol on it all long before I got as far as checking the HD voltages."

          I made a career out of diagnosing "impossible" problems in grey area H/W - S/W interactions.

          In those days long ago I spent a lot of my spare time reading assembler in the O/S - just for the "fun" of it.

    4. Crisp Silver badge

      "As is common with IT systems, even after testing issues may also emerge in the live environment."

      Ok, maybe I should rephrase that.

      When I write stuff, people generally get what they asked for. (Software developer accepts no liability for people asking for daft stuff.)

      1. MonkeyCee Silver badge

        Re: "As is common with IT systems, even after testing issues may also emerge"

        "When I write stuff, people generally get what they asked for. (Software developer accepts no liability for people asking for daft stuff.)"

        That's kind of the problem. Unless you happen to also be expert in that relevant area, then getting the requirements that no-one thought worth writing down is the key difference between "do what I say" and "do what I want".

        At the very least when someone asks for you to make them a glass hammer, you should check whether they intend to bang nails in with it, and point out the obvious flaws.

        So if someone wants daft stuff, and will pay you to make it, that's all well and good. But it's usually good practice to check they know *why* it's daft, and get them to confirm it.

        Plenty of places I've worked in also had the issue where something bleeding obvious to customers and front line staff was apparently not so obvious to those doing the dev side of things. If you force the buggers to have to actually use the systems* (in prod, not test) then they usually whine and scream (while being less competent at phone support than your average teenager) but end up building much better systems.

        It's a bit like pair coding. It's stressful, frustrating, annoying and tiring, but you end up with a much more solid product. No one enjoys it, but it's still good practice.

        * it's also a good technique for management too, but they hate being shown up as being unable to do the work of someone below their pay grade.

        1. This post has been deleted by its author

    5. Roland6 Silver badge

      Re: "As is common with IT systems, even after testing issues may also emerge..."

      >The stuff I write is tested properly.

      As were the majority of systems that had to be modified to handle Y2K...

  12. adam payne Silver badge

    Government IT systems delivered on time, yeah right.

    Government gets wallet out, gets some money out of it and hands it over to developer. The developer says thanks then takes the money and the wallet.

    Rinse and repeat.

  13. Conrad Longmore
    FAIL

    Better stock up on supplies then

    Well, that brings the time you need to have stocked up on essential supplies forward from March 2019 to the end of the year then. You know, food, medicine, fuel maybe.

    It doesn't actually matter if HMRC pull the rabbit out of the hat and make it work on time, we still haven't even started on the rest of the infrastructure needed for the new customs environment.

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Trollface

    Government office is unable to hit deadlines.

    In other news water is wet

    Did we really expect anything less?

    1. Pen-y-gors Silver badge

      Re: Government office is unable to hit deadlines.

      In other news water is wet

      I'm sure we've discussed this before. Is it true to say that water is wet? Or is it that other objects, after coming into contact with water, and retaining some on their surface, are the things that are actually wet? A towel can be wet, as can a labrador.

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: Government office is unable to hit deadlines.

        Post-Brexit we will have our own water and it won't be wet, unless you want to it to be.

        And anybody who says otherwise is a remoaner

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Trollface

          Re: Government office is unable to hit deadlines.

          Your wrong because as soon as we leave the EU, ALL the water will suddenly leave the UK and the little that does remain will suddenly start to burn like fire.

          And if you dont believe that then you are a uneducated racist xenophobic white supremacist neo-nazi.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Trollface

        Re: Government office is unable to hit deadlines.

        Does Mud make things muddy?

        Well since people want to discuss the obvious but in a retarded manner, I wonder what one of 60 genders does water have to be to make you wet, and if it does is it the fault of white supremacy racist patriarchy?

  15. Dr_N Silver badge
    Go

    Bunch of Naysayers

    This is going to be one of the most fun parts of the whole brexit project.

    After 2 years uk.gov must have come up with the MOST biglyist plans for border control, customs and immigration.

    The removal of the hated EU blue channel and increased prominence of the plucky British Red and Green channels will be a highlight, I'm sure.

    I'm strapping myself in so that the mind-blowing awesomeness of all this will not knock me out of my chair....

    1. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge

      Re: Bunch of Naysayers

      The removal of the hated EU blue channel and increased prominence of the plucky British Red and Green channels will be a highlight, I'm sure.

      On the contrary, the Blue channel will be retained (to match the passports) and those other troublesome channels will be closed off.

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: Bunch of Naysayers

        So the Green channel will become Blue - to match the passports

        The Blue channel will become Red - to match the passports - but then be closed

        The Red channel will be covered up with a wall

  16. andy 103
    FAIL

    Excel spreadsheets + email

    Whatever half baked system they end up with, I bet they'll end up using countless Excel spreadsheets and "sharing" that data via email. This seems a very common pattern in so many organisations.

    Shit or inappropriate software? No worries! Let's just store the data in Excel, and send it via the only medium everyone is familiar with. No need to learn anything new either - bonus!

  17. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    No surprise

    My company sends declarations to CHIEF and we've seen this coming a long time.

    The whole CDS project has been a joke and CHIEF can barely cope with the current volume of declarations.

    I'd like to believe that they can scale up CHIEF but we've been told that was impossible in the past (you'll never guess, it's ancient and is in a technological cul-de-sac) so fingers crossed they can pull this rabbit out of the hat.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: No surprise

      VME and IDMSX, if I remember right. Both capable of handling huge amounts of data when used correctly. That assumes, of course, that the right assumptions were made 30 years ago when CHIEF was first spec'ed and that everything has been kept up to date since.

      They might be in a hole if they stuck with an older version of IDMSX as some organisations did BiTD, but I am sure that they wouldn't have been that daft.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: No surprise

        There might be scope to increase the page size to squeeze some more capacity out of it then, but eventually there are hard addressing limits in IDMSX when it's Game Over. Ye cannae break the laws of physics.

        1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

          Re: No surprise

          Simple solution, reduce the volume of exports until the system can cope.

          Now how can you massively reduce the volume of exports across the country by March 2019 .....

  18. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Let me fix that headline for you - "UK Taxman *has* run out of time to deliver working customs IT system..."

    There's no way in hell they can get it done by the hard brexit deadline.

    Shower of incompetents in Parliament - every single one should be thrown out on the street because of this debacle (and half of them sent to prison)

    1. Tom Paine Silver badge
      Facepalm

      MPs

      every single [MP] should be thrown out on the street because of this debacle (and half of them sent to prison)

      Bit harsh on the LIb Dems who have consistently voted against Brexit at every opportunity.

      1. Dave 15

        Re: MPs

        The libdems should be hung then :)

        1. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge
          Headmaster

          Re: MPs

          The libdems should be hung then :)

          Parliaments can be hung, libdems would have to be hanged.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      >Shower of incompetents in Parliament - every single one should be thrown out on the street because of this debacle (and half of them sent to prison)

      There is an argument that if/when* Brexit goes wrong, that Mrs May (and her husband) should have her personal bank details audited and if it is found that either has made money out of a decision that caused harm to the country after she gave speeches warning about the harm it would do, then she should be investigated for misconduct in a public office. Maximum sentence life.

      *depends on your confidence level.

      1. Roland6 Silver badge

        >There is an argument that if/when* Brexit goes wrong, that Mrs May (and her husband) should have her personal bank details audited ...

        Too narrow, need to at least include the Cabinet, given collective responsibility.

        However, if Brexit goes really wrong, I suspect we might be seeing heads on spikes outside of Westminster, rendering such investigations mote.

        1. Roland6 Silver badge

          >Too narrow, need to at least include the Cabinet, given collective responsibility.

          One thing that has been playing on my mind, is just how much of the current Cabinet debate is being captured, are we likely to see either files being kept secret for a 100 years, or massively incomplete records with glaring omissions...

  19. Tom Paine Silver badge
    Thumb Up

    Market analysis

    Buy lorry parks and landfill operators!

    (and canned food and shotguns, of course0

  20. maffski

    Commentards are weird

    We're going to build a rocket, fly to mars, and live there

    Yeah!

    Great!

    Visionary!

    Sign me up!!

    We're going to upgrade our database to process twice as many requests

    Impossible!

    Insane!

    Madness!

    We should overturn democracy to stop this lunacy

    All those other people are idiots and were lied too.

  21. fortyrunner

    The only way we could be IT ready for Brexit is...

    if we had started about 5 years ago with a perfect set of requirements.

    All the talk in recent weeks of the different type of customs arrangements was nonsense given that IT change is guaranteed to extend well beyond the proposed implementation dates.

    The people that just say 'Just leave and sort it out later' will be among the first to scream when nothing works.

  22. Barry Rueger Silver badge

    A Modest Proposal

    Given past experience with government attempts to implement large, complex computer projects it seems utterly impossible that this will be ready.

    I'd suggest hiring 1000 clerks and planning on moving all customs processing to paper forms and fax machines.

  23. colinb

    System changes in December and January?

    No company i know in the food business at least makes Prod systems changes in December, its a total change freeze normally from start of December through Christmas/New Year until second week of January at the earliest.

    This has all the signs of a disaster in the making.

  24. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    For those playing at home...

    Yes, BREXIT is the worlds largest and slowest ever train wreck.

    Well done!

  25. Dave 15

    What????

    You mean HMRC has no ability to collect tariffs on imports from non-EU countries???? All we have to do is add the names of the EU countries to those we need to collect tariffs from. Simple really. We probably should adjust the tariffs but if that is too difficult then just leave them alone.

    Next?

    Yet another 'oh Brexit is hard' story from a bunch of remainer civil servants and mps... it is TRIVIAL! I could sort brexit in a day.

  26. Instinct46

    The're only failing because the public sector sucks at making any successful computer systems. Police facial detection system: fail, NHS Sytem 1: fail, NHS System 2: fail, NHS {insert number}: fail.

    1. Roland6 Silver badge

      >The're only failing because the public sector sucks at making any successful computer systems.

      ?Two sides to the coin... accumulation of data:

      Police facial recognition system: Pass

      Police fingerprint database: Pass

      Police DNA database: Pass

      ...

  27. Langdon Systems

    Langdon Systems

    Although there are reports that DS is behind and delayed, in the short term we're confident this doesn’t pose an issue to businesses who are using CHIEF to report as increased capacity for volumes means it can handle more than ever. As CDS specifications are released, software providers like us are gaining confidence in the new interface and integration to finally make the switch at the 'right time'.

    As pilot scheme members, we work closely with HMRC and are proactive in communicating regular CDS bulletins through our social channels. If you feel that you are not getting enough support on this matter, connect with Langdon Systems for regular updates.

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