back to article Oracle's new Java SE subs: Code and support for $25/processor/month

Oracle’s put a price on Java SE and support: $25 per physical processor per month, and $2.50 per user per month on the desktop, or less if you buy lots for a long time. Big Red’s called this a Java SE Subscription and pitched it as “a commonly used model, popular with Linux distributions”. The company also reckons the new deal …

  1. HCV

    I bet this will be a hot topic at JavaOne.

    ...too soon?

    1. TheVogon Silver badge

      Thank god we migrated to .Net already.

      1. Rafael #872397
        Devil

        Re: Thank god we migrated...

        Yeah, what could possibly go wrong?

      2. DJV Silver badge

        @TheVogon

        Where are the <sarcasm>tags</sarcasm>?

        1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
          Childcatcher

          Re: @TheVogon

          Finally a good reason to push OCaml past these blockheads... (because I will go medieval on the arse of the next person who says "why not use Node.js").

          It looks like the Oracle Java SE standard is still free and only the "Advanced" issues needs licensing (and may also need additional licenses for Oracle WebLogic, Oracle DB or Oracle MySQL, and possible Oracle Oracle to consult on licenses).

          Check your privilege here: Java SE Licensing Information User Manual via Java SE Downloads

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Shutting the Stable door

    too little (or in this case far too much $$$) and years too late.

    Any business that signs up for this will no doubt get a visit from the Oracle 'goon squad' so that a proper bill can be sent. Instead of $25/server/month it will be $25 per item/month of every bit of IT kit you have because it could possibly run Java at some point in the future especially if it runs some form of Linux embedded or not. See that printer? Yes, that one over in the corner that has not been used for years...

    That will be $25/month thank you very much.

    Sceptic? this is more like septic if you ask me.

    1. HCV

      Re: Shutting the Stable door

      I think you're ignoring the enormous success they've seen in jacking Solaris licenses into the stratosphere.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Shutting the Stable door

        Also, woe betide you if you work for a $BIGCORP and download the VirtualBox plugins. They check all IP addresses.

      2. lleres

        Re: Shutting the Stable door

        And that matters to all two companies still using Solaris.

  3. getHandle

    You have to pay to use a language?

    How curious...

    1. wayne 8

      Re: You have to pay to use a language?

      Pay to play with the JVM?

      The language was free, that was the come on to get everybody+dog using Java everywhere.

      Drug pusher business model.

      Will this impact OpenJDK?

      Future proprietary extensions?

      Microsoft business model.

      1. HmmmYes Silver badge

        Re: You have to pay to use a language?

        Drugs are fun.

        Java isnt.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: You have to pay to use a language?

          >Drugs are fun.

          Try telling that to the dude who bought a wrap of Fentanyl thinking it was smack, if you shout loud enough through 6 feet of earth he may hear you.

          Street powders and pills don't come with a certificate of analysis.

          1. HmmmYes Silver badge

            Re: You have to pay to use a language?

            Nancy? Nancy Reagan?

            Are you back from the dead?

            Dont buy from dubious sources.

          2. JulieM Silver badge

            Re: You have to pay to use a language?

            Street powders and pills don't come with a certificate of analysis.
            Because the present system does not treat selling adulterated drugs any more harshly than selling product of a known purity.

            Poor Quality Control is directly caused by prohibition.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: You have to pay to use a language?

              >Poor Quality Control is directly caused by prohibition.

              No such thing as a completely safe drug (legal or illegal) as they all have potential side effects and what may be safer for one genetic grouping may have unexpected or deadly consequences for another.

              It's an individuals choice but be fully aware of the risks and potential consequences, if it goes tits up don't say you weren't warned. If you can get by in life without pills and powders then that's one less landmine in life to step on.

              1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge

                Re: You have to pay to use a language?

                Drugs are only fun if you want to become unemployable.

                Why is why there should not be any prohibition. We have suppressed natural selection far too long.

                "Don't train yourself to be what you don't want to be."

      2. Dan 55 Silver badge

        Re: You have to pay to use a language?

        Pay to play with the JVM?

        The language was free, that was the come on to get everybody+dog using Java everywhere.

        Drug pusher business model.

        Will this impact OpenJDK?

        Depends if Oracle think they can make money out of it like Dalvik... but the lawyers may wait a few years first until they think it's ripe for the picking.

        So, if it were me, I wouldn't touch anything to do with Java with a bargepole.

  4. hititzombisi

    Oh well who cares...

    Permanent fork of OpenJDK with its GPL licence?

    One thing this means for me is, no Oracle JRE on anything.

    1. HmmmYes Silver badge

      Re: Oh well who cares...

      Did anyone actually read the Java run-time license?

      I did. ~15 years ago.

      It does not take a genius lawyer to work out how it could go bad.

      It did not take a KPMG accountant (cough couhg) to see how much money was being spent promoting Java and how little money was made from Java to see there was a big gaping cash hole that needed filling.

      I avoided Java until OpenJDK came out. Then I only run the VM on Linux ... if I really really have to, for legacy.

  5. JLV Silver badge

    looking forward to the spin

    by the Java-is-greatest-thing-ever brigade.

    If Android/Google exit Java via Fuschia, and fees get added too, what’s going to motivate new users to touch Java?

    Simplicity and terseness, perhaps?

  6. Jack of Shadows Silver badge

    Only Java here is for Android Studio. That's no loss at all.

  7. jillesvangurp

    Don't panic, use openjdk.

    We use the Azul certified builds of OpenJDK. Vanilla openjdk is also an option. I'm assuming Azul may step up their own LTS support. There will be some heavy interest in Java 8 support for some time. Java 9 and 10 were comparatively disruptive in terms of compatibility and really not widely adopted. The jury is out on 11 but it will take way more than 2 months for people to switch to that after it is released. That puts Oracle's notion of LTS in perspective. Beware what you are buying into.

    IMHO there's very little reason to use Oracle builds it just exposes you to audits and it is effectively exactly the same stuff as the OSS builds from Red Hat, Ubuntu, or Azul minus a few completely irrelevant Oracle proprietary components. I think the LTS thing, or lack thereof (1.5 years is not LTS, sorry), is going to be an annoyance and the post LTS payed support is probably going to be a joke. Oracle is making increasingly good arguments for permanently cutting any dependencies on them. They've repeatedly demonstrated that they are bad stewards of the OSS they acquired with Sun. Hudson became Jenkins, MySql became MariaDB, OpenOffice became LibreOffice, etc.

    I think short term a fork is unlikely but I do think many JVM languages like Kotlin, Scala, Clojure, etc. are already eyeing alternative vm technologies around e.g, llvm and de-emphasizing their dependence on Java. Kotlin has a native compiler in the works as well as javascript based backends and there is the ongoing efforts around WASM in browsers. I think clojure can also target javascript. Not sure about Scala. Then there are things like jruby that are basically just Ruby on the jvm, jython for python, etc. Java itself is becoming a legacy language. I see very little reason to use it and am actively transitioning away from it (and I was a very early adopter).

    An OpenJDK fork is less likely. Oracle has demonstrated that it can be nasty in a courtroom, with e.g. Android and Apache Harmony (which was the basis for Android, and got shelved by IBM). A combination of patents, trademarks, and the bogus copyright stuff (IMHO Oracle will ultimately lose the case against Google) makes this less likely for bigger corporations to get involved with.

    I would not be surprised to see Oracle initiate some layoffs shortly after Java 11 comes out. This smells like a plan to milk licensing as long as it lasts. Oracle is under pressure from its shareholders to generate revenue and software licensing from their traditional products is rapidly melting away and not quite offset by their cloud stuff or "consulting". Years of customer abuse have given them a bad reputation and this shit is not helping.

  8. Solarflare

    "Peter Jansen of Oracle licensing consultancy Navicle told The Register"

    When there are companies that exist solely to give consultancy advice to other companies about nothing else other than your licensing...

    1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge

      These companies exist for Microsoft too. The come to your office together with the audit-wielding Microsoft Rep...

  9. TheresaJayne

    Ok so this is in cahoots with microsoft, now every Minecraft server has to have a java licence to run, say goodbye to java games written in libGDX etc, Oracle are going to kill the language and it will all be their fault.

    1. Simon Ward

      Oracle are going to kill the language and it will all be their fault.

      I, for one, won't miss it.

      Hateful language, even if the JVM itself is a pretty cool piece of tech.

      1. werdsmith Silver badge

        Yeah, everytime I see a Java article I think "Java? Is that still a thing" ?

        Same should apply to Oracle. Leech of an organisation.

  10. LeoP
    Pint

    Java was larryated - resistance was futile years ago

    At the time, I pushed through a complete stop on any new Java investment when Oracle got their hands on it ... against HUGE resistance and with quite some bad blood. 2 years later we were de facto Java-Free (If I don't count Android).

    I guess this bad blood will now be easily resolved over a (see icon) and a hearty laugh.

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Reg, you're missing a voting option:

    I wouldn't touch Java with a shitty stick.

  12. Alistair Silver badge
    Windows

    Oh well

    That'll be painful here 'bouts.

    Weblogic. lots of weblogic.

    I'm thinking there'll be cost management actions shortly.

    Anyone want a copy of my CV?

  13. Smoking Man

    Just guessing.

    Next year or so, license and support cost will stay the same, just not per server though, but per Oracle licensed core.

    All cores in a system to be licensed, as long as it isn't running Oracle VM.

    Oh yes, of course, Vmware datacenters as a whole.

    And no, it doesnt' matter how many or few cores in that datacenter actually run Java SE.

    Theoretically, you could run it on all, couldn't you?

    So here's your new license and support contract, adding 8192 cores * 25$/core/month * three years...

  14. ForthIsNotDead
    FAIL

    Prediction...

    1) World + dog baulk at the sudden cost implications

    2) Punitive licence audits by Oracle by staff

    3) Gradual reduction in (Oracle) Java utilisation over next 5 years

    4) Gradual uptake in OpenJVM utilisation over next 5 years

    5) Larry throws in the towel, and says fuck it, dumps Java, sticks it on GitHub, and tells everyone to fuck off.

  15. Velv Silver badge
    Paris Hilton

    At that price I’d be expecting real java, in a mug, every day, delivered by a cute Barista

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    larry

    larry needs to go fuck himself with a rusty spoon

  17. Jay Lenovo Silver badge
    Trollface

    Inspired by Facebook

    Oh come on Oracle, The internet runs on free.

    Couldn't you just collect and sell our personal information to pay for your support?

    1. The Mole

      Re: Inspired by Facebook

      It appears they already are. Go to the website, when the cookies popup comes up select to only have minimum number of cookies and click "I accept". The message that comes up is:

      "We are processing your request, this could take up to a few minutes to process."

      And they aren't lying there is a microsoft style* progress bar and it really does take minutes as it talks to all their analytics hosts to update your preferences!

      *That is gets to 99% and then just sits there for ages.

  18. chuckufarley
    Go

    Well I say...

    ..."Ah, fork it!"

    Maybe we can call the new branch Covfefe...

  19. whitepines Silver badge
    Trollface

    Bye bye Java....OpenJDK just isn't quite stable for a bunch of stuff, and really Java has a well earned reputation for being SLOW.

    Now excuse my while I go laugh in the face of people that told me not to use C/C++, and to use Java instead. Good thing I didn't listen to them then either!

  20. a_yank_lurker Silver badge

    Options

    Options to replace Java without any Slurp of JVM are Go, Rust, Ruby, Python, C, & C++ depending on the application with a couple of honorable mentions of Nim, Elixir, Erlang & Haskell. The only real value to Java is the JVM as the language itself is a misbegotten turd.

    1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
      Headmaster

      Re: Options

      Options to replace Java without any Slurp of JVM are

      > Go - Depends on the "ecosystem" and Google isn't company doing stable product support.

      > Rust - Not yet, maybe not ever.

      > Ruby - Fun language but ... no static typing, so no. Yes for scripts.

      > Python - Fun language but ... no static typing, so no. Yes for scripts.

      > C - You having a laf mate.

      > C++ - Barely, and the manual no longer passes the "arm's length test". The Ada of today.

      > Nim - No idea.

      > Elixir - No static typing, good for agent-oriented programming, nice, but no cigar.

      > Erlang - No static typing, good for agent-oriented programming, nice, but no cigar.

      > Haskell - Not getting out academy fast, most programmers' heads would explode in any case.

      > "The only real value to Java is the JVM" - Maybe, maybe

      > "as the language itself is a misbegotten turd" - If it's good enough for biz, that's where the money is. Deal with it.

  21. missingegg

    Give Azul a call

    Why anyone would enter into a business arrangement with Oracle baffles me. Azul has a supported build of OpenJDK, as well as their commercial version of Java with a garbage collector that won't randomly pause your applications, along with a variety of other nice improvements. The only way I'd use Oracle Java is if I got the license "free" along with other Oracle products that I was using.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Give Azul a call

      That might do as people switch away from Oracle owned products over time.

    2. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge

      Re: Give Azul a call

      their commercial version of Java with a garbage collector that won't randomly pause your applications

      Uh... we are no longer 2005, buddy. May get your arse in gear and read around.

  22. badger31

    Java has been great as a teaching tool

    I teach programming at university and I'm struggling to find a suitable replacement for java as a 'learning to program' language. Python is the obvious choice, but the syntax is likely to lead to students that struggle to pick up different languages. I know I'm not alone in thinking meaningful whitespace is a dumb idea, despite the number of down votes this post might attract.

    1. silent_count

      Re: Java has been great as a teaching tool

      I'll probably get laughed at but why not JavaScript?

      - the syntax is C-ish.

      - it's already installed on every device your students have.

      - the browsers have some pretty decent dev tools built in.

      - it's not dominated by one company (nobody is going to start demanding subscriptions or licenses to use JavaScript)

      1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge

        Re: Java has been great as a teaching tool

        I'll probably get laughed at but why not JavaScript?

        Because it's practically the worst language that has ever graced the mind of man with many special interests putting their dick in for good measure? Problematic young people who want to "program" are sticking to it like flies because "it runs in the browser". FFS.

        NEVER TEACH SOMEONE PROGRAMMING USING JAVASCRIPT. THERE SHOULD BE CRIMINAL PENALTIES FOR THIS. 20 YEARS HARD LABOR IN SIBERIA WOULD BE APPROPRIATE.

        There are so many Good Languages out there. No not C++. Jesus Christ.

      2. Missing Semicolon Silver badge
        Unhappy

        Re: Java has been great as a teaching tool

        Javascript? No typing, utterly bonkers inside-out scoping rules, quietly fail and carry on error handling, bolted-on-and-fragile object model?

        I really think not.

    2. HmmmYes Silver badge

      Re: Java has been great as a teaching tool

      Pythins great for teaching.

      Newbies might need an ingormed choice for an editor.

      Introduce yhdm yo c and interface with oython at a later date.

      Python and C is a good way of getting studrnts to make engineering choices - execution speed v. ease if development.

    3. a_yank_lurker Silver badge

      Re: Java has been great as a teaching tool

      Java is a poor teaching tool because of its unneeded verbosity and overly verbos way of doing simple tasks. I would say pick on language like C to show low level stuff (pointers, memory management, etc.) and another like Python or Ruby to show them basic concepts of computing. Concerns about syntax is more due to incompetent teaching; syntactical families are much like foreign languages. Groups share similar syntactical features like language groups share similar grammatical features and basic vocabulary. Expose students to 2 or 3 common languages that have different strengths and weaknesses early so they are used to the difference early. And explain the strengths and weaknesses of each language.

  23. JulieM Silver badge

    Could create a schism

    This has the potential to create a schism.

    Many applications already run fine on OpenJDK, whether by luck or judgment. Developers could easily target OpenJDK as their intended platform. They can contract-out testing against Oracle Java to smaller firms with only one computer needing an Oracle licence (which may be wholly-owned subsidiaries sharing premises).

    Oracle probably will respond by wowing developers who opt to stick with them with proprietary extensions, in order to buy some time before work-alikes can be implemented in Open Source land.

    Thus will things fracture, into two not-quite-compatible camps with third- and even fourth-party compatibility layers struggling to plug the gaps. And in the meantime, shinier, newer languages with cooler features will emerge and chip away relentlessly at Java's user base .....

  24. tomiscw

    .NET was already appealing on it's own

    But now Oracle is just adding the cherry on top of the cake.

    1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge

      Re: .NET was already appealing on it's own

      s/appealing/appalling/

  25. PowerBenny

    This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone, but neither should it be panic stations. There are lots of ways to continue using Java for free. Obviously there is Open JDK, which has proven just fine for a large number of systems we've migrated over, with very little pain. Alternatively you can continue using Oracle version of Java for free, you just have to stay up to date. Upgrade to Java 8 now and Java 11 in September when it is released. I'm electing to skip Java 9 and 10 as the public availability for those is too short to make a transition worth our while.

    http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/eol-135779.html

  26. tthtlc

    You can never be safe with any language, especially when people like Larry Ellison exists - and he is the root cause of all the world's problem. Yesterday he bought Sun and now we have to pay for Java. Today, Php and Node.JS are the top in performance for web transaction - but I bet one day he will try to buy it up, and we will be paying license fee in another way.

    I am active in opensource development, and we do it all for free, and then next people like Larry is soaking up all the profits on our behalf? Luckily technologies are always moving very fast: in no time someone will be creative enough to revolutionize the world with something new, and something low costs, like Rust and WebAssembly is taking the technological world by storm now. But I sincerely hope existing players like OpenJDK will remain strong and well-funded to survive.

POST COMMENT House rules

Not a member of The Register? Create a new account here.

  • Enter your comment

  • Add an icon

Anonymous cowards cannot choose their icon

Biting the hand that feeds IT © 1998–2019