back to article Unbreakable smart lock devastated to discover screwdrivers exist

It's never easy to crack into a market with an innovative new product but makers of the "world's first smart fingerprint padlock" have made one critical error: they forgot about the existence of screwdrivers. Tapplock raised $320,000 in 2016 for their product that would allow you to use just your finger to open the " …

  1. elDog Silver badge

    Yeah - but if I am a "common criminal" I'll definitely find another non-indiegogo to pawn

    This seems like the stoopid ADT signs that people used to put in their front lawns to make the miscreants believe that there was any security at all.

    Or the US TSA.

    Now, me: I have two very hungry attack dogs (60 and 100#) as well as a bunch of cats that will trip you up. So be careful!

    1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge

      Re: Yeah - but if I am a "common criminal" I'll definitely find another non-indiegogo to pawn

      Hungry attack dogs?

      PETA will be on the case.

      1. jake Silver badge

        Re: Yeah - but if I am a "common criminal" I'll definitely find another non-indiegogo to pawn

        WTF is an "attack dog"?

        1. Rich 11 Silver badge

          Re: Yeah - but if I am a "common criminal" I'll definitely find another non-indiegogo to pawn

          WTF is an "attack dog"?

          It's a dog that has been trained to attack people.

          Anything else I can help you with today?

          1. cosmogoblin

            Re: Yeah - but if I am a "common criminal" I'll definitely find another non-indiegogo to pawn

            When I first played Deus Ex, I found a helicopter that, when targeted, showed the help-text "Attack Helicopter".

            I unloaded several clips into it before I realised it was a noun, not an instruction..

        2. Voland's right hand Silver badge

          Re: Yeah - but if I am a "common criminal" I'll definitely find another non-indiegogo to pawn

          WTF is an "attack dog"?

          Real one? Caucasian Shepherd or to a lesser extent a Bulgarian Karakachan. They are originally bred dual purpose - primary as a sheep dog, secondary to defend households including against armed raiders. Anyone who is not identified as a member of the "family" is automatically identified as a target and it literally goes for the kill. There is no messing about, warnings, etc. A pair (male and female) of these is as effective as two 24x7x365 guards armed with submachine guns.

          They are considered to be the "most effective perimeter defense" in places where the law is err... a b it .. flexible. I would not use them in a developed country as nobody will give me an insurance for their use as a guard team.

          So if the GP is claiming he has an attack dog and it is not one of these, he has an attack toy. Not an attack dog.

          1. Dave Bell

            Re: Yeah - but if I am a "common criminal" I'll definitely find another non-indiegogo to pawn

            Our dog was a failed lurcher, and one of those rescue animals. She knew to lead visitors to where we were about the farmyard. It was one of those awkward incidents, a local with severe mental disability, who was going around trying locks.

            He got a nasty suck.

            It was enough.

            Security has to match the need.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Yeah - but if I am a "common criminal" I'll definitely find another non-indiegogo to pawn

              He got a nasty suck.

              You should've used the Paris icon. That's what it's there for.

          2. BebopWeBop Silver badge
            Facepalm

            Re: Yeah - but if I am a "common criminal" I'll definitely find another non-indiegogo to pawn

            two 24x7x365

            how do these differ from 24x7 mutts?

            1. onefang Silver badge

              Re: Yeah - but if I am a "common criminal" I'll definitely find another non-indiegogo to pawn

              "how do these differ from 24x7 mutts?"

              They last longer.

            2. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge
              Joke

              Re: Yeah - but if I am a "common criminal" I'll definitely find another non-indiegogo to pawn

              two 24x7x365

              Does a Microsoft salesperson getting a non-indiegogo punter to move over to Office 365 make them a "common-criminal"

            3. JulieM Bronze badge

              Re: Yeah - but if I am a "common criminal" I'll definitely find another non-indiegogo to pawn

              They work for nearly seven years at a time. (The mean year is 365.2425 days.)

              As opposed to 24x7x52 attack dogs, which work for 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year.

            4. keith_w

              Re: Yeah - but if I am a "common criminal" I'll definitely find another non-indiegogo to pawn

              "two 24x7x365

              how do these differ from 24x7 mutts? "

              They take leap-days off.

            5. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Yeah - but if I am a "common criminal" I'll definitely find another non-indiegogo to pawn

              two 24x7x365 - how do these differ from 24x7 mutts?

              They can guard Azure Cloud and still take a couple of days off.

            6. This post has been deleted by its author

            7. MudFever

              Re: Yeah - but if I am a "common criminal" I'll definitely find another non-indiegogo to pawn

              or even the 24h mutts?

          3. Blank Reg Silver badge

            Re: Yeah - but if I am a "common criminal" I'll definitely find another non-indiegogo to pawn

            Yes a Caucasian Sheppard will easily take care of any would-be intruders. But I like the neopolitan mastiff as they have some interesting traits. They tend not to bark much and are naturally protective. So if they hear an intruder they don't usually go crazy barking at them, they will just quietly go search them out. Once they find them then the growling starts, by then it's too late to get away, the intruder is dinner.

            1. MyOtherHead

              Re: Yeah - but if I am a "common criminal" I'll definitely find another non-indiegogo to pawn

              Reminds me of the "Jesus is watching" joke.

            2. rmason Silver badge

              Re: Yeah - but if I am a "common criminal" I'll definitely find another non-indiegogo to pawn

              We have a Cane Corso (Italian mastiff), I think someone trying to get in via my windows etc would make for amusing viewing.

              She's a soppy family pet, but she sounds mean.

          4. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Yeah - but if I am a "common criminal" I'll definitely find another non-indiegogo to pawn

            "as effective as two 24x7x365 guards "

            ..... pfft ....... you don't even need the screwdriver: just wait till February 29th.

          5. Frenchie Lad

            Re: Yeah - but if I am a "common criminal" I'll definitely find another non-indiegogo to pawn

            I'll settle for a Karelian Bear Dog. They also make good pets.

          6. McKrack

            Re: Yeah - but if I am a "common criminal" I'll definitely find another non-indiegogo to pawn

            Well, you can get a Yugoslavian shepherd dog to that list. A pair Šarplninac dogs is about as much security as you need.

          7. mr-slappy
            Headmaster

            Re: Yeah - but if I am a "common criminal" I'll definitely find another non-indiegogo to pawn

            "A pair (male and female) of these is as effective as two 24x7x365 guards armed with submachine guns"

            Assuming your units are hours, 24 x 7 x 365 is 7 years. Do they get itchy after that time?

          8. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

            Re: Yeah - but if I am a "common criminal" I'll definitely find another non-indiegogo to pawn

            A pair (male and female) of these is as effective as two 24x7x365 guards armed with submachine guns.

            Really? What if the attacker is, oh, let's say, in a car?

            Mind you, I'm not advocating for attack dogs or attack humans. But I think your threat model is a little simplistic if it finds those two mitigations equivalent.

            (There are, of course, attack classes in which the dogs are more effective. They're less susceptible to threats against family members, for example.)

          9. Captain Obvious
            Thumb Up

            Re: Yeah - but if I am a "common criminal" I'll definitely find another non-indiegogo to pawn

            Funny - my English Shepherd does the same thing - if you are NOT a member of the family, you are literally dog food. Was bred for dual purpose - as a herding dog and as a protect dog.

        3. onefang Silver badge

          Re: Yeah - but if I am a "common criminal" I'll definitely find another non-indiegogo to pawn

          An attack dog is like an attack helicopter, it's armed to the teeth with machine guns and rocket launchers.

          1. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge

            Re: Yeah - but if I am a "common criminal" I'll definitely find another non-indiegogo to pawn

            An attack dog is like an attack helicopter, it's armed to the teeth with machine guns and rocket launchers.

            No frikkin' lasers?

            1. onefang Silver badge

              Re: Yeah - but if I am a "common criminal" I'll definitely find another non-indiegogo to pawn

              "No frikkin' lasers?"

              I think you have attack dogs confused with attack goldfish, frikkin' lasers are an aquatic animal weapon. Laser guided weapons might be an option, but that might get the attack cats involved, things could get messy.

        4. yoganmahew

          Re: Yeah - but if I am a "common criminal" I'll definitely find another non-indiegogo to pawn

          "WTF is an "attack dog"?"

          It's one that's been fed 100 hash and has lost the plot.

        5. Rastor728
          Megaphone

          Re: Yeah - but if I am a "common criminal" I'll definitely find another non-indiegogo to pawn

          Re: Yeah - but if I am a "common criminal" I'll definitely find another non-indiegogo to pawn

          WTF is an "attack dog"?

          .....is this like an assault weapon?

      2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: Yeah - but if I am a "common criminal" I'll definitely find another non-indiegogo to pawn

        "PETA will be on the case."

        That's OK, the dogs will eat them.

        1. werdsmith Silver badge

          Re: Yeah - but if I am a "common criminal" I'll definitely find another non-indiegogo to pawn

          Yes a Caucasian Sheppard will easily take care of any would-be intruders.

          Crap. It's irresponsible and cruel to expect a dog to defend your property. Semi competent burglars deal with them quite easily and it's usually a sad outcome for the poor animal. Several so-called trained guard dogs round our way have ended up either blinded or dead. When I was a kid my neighour's dog was dealt with using a can of oven spray oven cleaner from the garden shed, the burglars opens the door just enough and then sprayed the poor german shepherd in the face.

          1. Zuagroasta

            Re: Yeah - but if I am a "common criminal" I'll definitely find another non-indiegogo to pawn

            Well, finally! Someone who realized why animals are no longer used on the battlefield - they are fragile

        2. bpfh

          Re: Yeah - but if I am a "common criminal" I'll definitely find another non-indiegogo to pawn

          AETP rather than PETA - Animals Eating Tasty People...

      3. jgarbo

        Re: Yeah - but if I am a "common criminal" I'll definitely find another non-indiegogo to pawn

        The attack dogs eat PETA people, too.

      4. hplasm Silver badge
        Meh

        Re: Yeah - but if I am a "common criminal" I'll definitely find another non-indiegogo to pawn

        "PETA will be on the case."

        And kill them.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Yeah - but if I am a "common criminal" I'll definitely find another non-indiegogo to pawn

      So you are saying all your precious valuables are in your home? Not the backyard shed or a storage unit? And all I need is a couple good ribeye steaks? Good to know. Thanks for the advice.

      PS - I also speak "cat".

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Avoid Internet of Things devices

      Avoid devices that are connected to the cloud aka Internet. Typically insanely insecure and full of surveillance tech (mic, cam, fingerprint).

      Build something useful yourself, with Arduino or Raspherry Pi. Keep your old trusted "dumb" analog devices that will outlast generations.

      1. jockmcthingiemibobb

        Re: Avoid Internet of Things devices

        or just impliment a decent firewall on your router

  2. Reginald Onway

    Oh my!

    And it only costs $100.

    I must say this was the most devastating take down of any IoT device I have ever read. Maybe most damaging report on any device.

    Well done!

    1. Chozo
      Facepalm

      Re: Oh my!

      If you liked that you'll love this.

      How to defeat high security locks with a paperclip and other fun tricks.

      DEFCON 19 Insecurity: An Analysis Of Current Commercial And Government Security Lock Designs

      1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
        Facepalm

        Re: Oh my!

        How to defeat high security locks with a paperclip and other fun tricks.

        Does anyone even do UAT anymore?

    2. Pete 2 Silver badge

      Re: Oh my!

      True, it seems pretty crap as far as hardware goes.

      But compared with software or operating systems that are supposed to be secure, it would count as invincible.

      Seriously, given how many design and implementation flaws there are in most apps, most code and most versions of Windows and Linux, a lock of comparable quality to them would be made out of chocolate with the password written on the outside of the box it came in.

      1. Pen-y-gors Silver badge

        Re: Oh my!

        This is obviously a serious cock-up, but, to be fair, no padlock is invincible, and that applies for most (all?) security systems. They are just ways of reducing the temptation of an open door with something valuable behind it. The more effective the lock, the less likely some opportunist passing-by bit of shit will have a go at it. If a garden shed needs a noisy angle-grinder to open it will probably be effective. The same lock will not be so good in a remote location on a shed full of gold bullion.

        If the contents are valuable enough, it can be opened!

        1. GIRZiM

          Re: the temptation of an open door with something valuable behind it

          Ah, but that's just what you'd like us all to think, isn't it?

          I bet you're one of those people who puts a really expensive looking lock on a garden shed full of horse-manure, situated miles away in the middle of Dartmoor, to encourage thieves to waste their time breaking into it because there must be something valuable behind such an expensive lock.

          Well, I'm wise to your reverse psychology tricks and not fooled for a second - I'm gonna break into your coal cellar with the crappy lock on it where you keep all your valuables

          1. onefang Silver badge

            Re: the temptation of an open door with something valuable behind it

            That's why I hid my valuables deep inside that horse-manure.

            1. jake Silver badge

              Re: the temptation of an open door with something valuable behind it

              I hope your valuables are heat proof ... decomposing horse shit can (and often does) get hot enough to combust.

            2. GIRZiM

              Re: the temptation of an open door with something valuable behind it

              Ha!

              Nice try but no cigar; I'm not falling for that - you just want me to get covered in it, looking for valuables that aren't there.

              No, now I'm even more convinced they're in the coal cellar.

              [Saunters off to find a costumer's so that he can dress the part and not look suspicious hanging around a coal cellar]

    3. macjules Silver badge

      Re: Oh my!

      Haha! Tapplock have now ‘adjusted’ their website to include:

      “Share smartphone access remotely with unlimited users. Set permanent access or limited access with flexible dates and times, and feel free to revoke access whenever you want. Track and monitor access history with time and location from the Tapplock app.”

      Stable door ... bolting horse...

      1. GIRZiM
        Coat

        Re: Stable door ... bolting horse...

        That there is a perfect example of the very issue you are attempting to illustrate - people not thinking about things properly.

        It's "Bolting horse... stable door ..."

        If you do it your way then all you end up with is "Stable door" - which is no good to anyone wanting to illustrate your point, is it?

        1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

          Re: Stable door ... bolting horse...

          I think security depends a lot on whether you believe in a Stainless theory of economics, or not. An LSE graduate may buy this lock, a graduate from the James diGriz Academy would sell it to them. If you sell horses, you'd perhaps also want to sell inferior doors. If you sell the perfect door, you may only sell one per customer. It's a delicate balancing act to keep the wheels of commerce greased.

          (also curious if you could open this lock by performing a gentle interrogation of it's IC using a blowtorch. Tried and tested method for getting something to give up it's secrets, and in this case, battery expansion may cause the back to pop off.)

          1. MachDiamond Silver badge

            Re: Stable door ... bolting horse...

            The first "Slippery" Jim diGriz mention I've seen on the Reg. Nice one.

            You don't need to be a Stainless Steel Rat to circumvent this lock.

            The only application I can see is for a gym locker where you don't want to have a bog standard key on you, but that's just being silly. I've never had an issue with my gym locker key and I don't see a $100 lock being a great investment. I expect if I were to lose my key while at the gym, they likely have bolt cutters and I could have a staff member remove my lock and assure themselves that it was my stuff inside via my ID in my wallet or phone combo, etc.

            I'd hate to have the battery inside go flat or fail. I'm pretty good about making plenty of key copies and stashing key rings here and there for backup. I have a "water brother" in town with a set of my house keys in case of emergency and I a set of his.

            One more fail is if somebody has a look at the lock and decides to screw up the sensor just for fun.

            1. dbtx Bronze badge
              Thumb Down

              have the battery go flat

              This.

              This is also where it fails hard. How many seconds at a time will a person spend interacting with it? They could have scored a few points for a small capacitor-charging hand crank or pull chain or whatever, but LiPo? Hmm, another mandatorily battery-powered central feature... reminds me of that smart gun that was probably really dumb just like LITERALLY EVERYTHING ELSE with 'smart' tacked on. Just quit already.

            2. Jellied Eel Silver badge

              Re: Stable door ... bolting horse...

              The first "Slippery" Jim diGriz mention I've seen on the Reg. Nice one.

              You don't need to be a Stainless Steel Rat to circumvent this lock.

              Perhaps oddly, Harry Harrison taught me a lot about security. Or ways it could be subverted, bypassed or generally finessed into doing Jim's bidding. Which included early examples of hacking, hardware and computer. Since then, there's been a long line of technofetishism resulting in products like this. For $100, someone could buy a far more secure lock, but it wouldn't have a fingerprint sensor. Or a blue LED. And it joins a whole slew of 'keyless' technology for people that can't manage a humble key and/or key chain. It's an interesting bit of social conditioning.

              One more fail is if somebody has a look at the lock and decides to screw up the sensor just for fun.

              I think it'd be slipperier to pop the back, steal the battery, screw the back on and film the reaction. Could potentially make more than $100 off YouTube views. I'm also puzzled why companies that make 'smart' locks like this miss the point of a lock. They're a deterent or a delaying mechanism and for this particular lock, it would seem easy to slap a piezo shrieker into it as a tamper alarm.

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Stable door ... bolting horse...

            I once worked in an office with a "secure door". One weekend the bad guys turned up with a chain saw and cut a huge hole in the DRYWALL BESIDE THE DOOR. They took everything that wasn't bolted down!

          3. onefang Silver badge
            Childcatcher

            Re: Stable door ... bolting horse...

            "(also curious if you could open this lock by performing a gentle interrogation of it's IC using a blowtorch. Tried and tested method for getting something to give up it's secrets, and in this case, battery expansion may cause the back to pop off.)"

            That there is a 'Elf&Safety issue for your average thief, what if the battery catches fire and explodes? Should be made illegal, wont someone think of the thieves!

          4. jelabarre59 Silver badge

            Re: Stable door ... bolting horse...

            Upvote for the Stainless Steel Rat reference.

    4. Chris G Silver badge

      Re: Oh my!

      For most padlocks a couple of cans of plumber's pipe freezer and a hammer will shatter them, including the super hard security locks.

      For the more upmarket thief about town a cordless angle grinder makes a good pass key although it's a little noisy.

    5. MiguelC Silver badge

      Re: Oh my!

      Only $100 and having the same security as $1 Chinese locks.

      Is it 100x better, then? ;)

      1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

        Re: Oh my!

        Mastlerlock will buy them. Now only $129.95! But any lock that can be opened faster than a Maglock in Shadowrun is not secure. However on a positive note, thieves that don't just use a die grinder will be be able to flog 2nd hand ones on Ebay.

  3. This post has been deleted by its author

  4. J. Cook Bronze badge
    Pint

    "However the lock is invincible to the people who do not have a screwdriver."

    I think those are sold... almost everywhere, except maybe restaurants (screwdrivers, that is.)

    I think I need a screwdriver now. (the kind you drink)

    I first saw the JerryRigEverything video couple weeks ago. I'll stick to my (not quite quite as easy to compromise) padlocks that I paid $20 dollars for; those at least will slow down the pros.

    1. gnasher729 Silver badge

      "I think those are sold... almost everywhere, except maybe restaurants (screwdrivers, that is.)"

      I'm quite sure I got a screwdriver once in a restaurant inside a christmas cracker.

      So you can get screwdrivers _anywhere_.

      And if you go to a restaurant and say "guys, I really need a screwdriver, would you have one for twenty pounds", I'm sure they'll find one for you.

    2. Def Silver badge
      Coat

      I think those are sold... almost everywhere, except maybe restaurants (screwdrivers, that is.)

      Screwdriver... vodka & orange juice? I think most restaurants sell those. ;)

      1. jake Silver badge

        Vodka & orange juice ... unless it's a Phillips Screwdriver.

        Then it's vodka and milk of magnesia.

      2. chivo243 Silver badge
        Coat

        Screwdriver... vodka & orange juice? I think most restaurants sell those. ;)

        And I'd also like a Waldorf salad to go with my screwdriver !

        1. Anonymous Cow Herder

          Waldorf Salad

          Have an upvote - "Waldorf salad is off as we're all out of waldorfs"

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Where did you get that $20 padlock?

      Our only-game-in-a-small-town hardware store went for Master's case load discount. Guess what? Probably half the padlocks in a 10 mile radius open with the same key...

      1. 404 Silver badge

        Re: Where did you get that $20 padlock?

        Master locks are easy in any case - sat down one day with a case of 50 new padlocks, opened 41 of them with a rock - without damaging the locks at all. Put a little tension on the hasp and tap either side of the body, back and forth, and the lock will most likely open - gets easier with older worn Master padlocks.

        1. Paul Hovnanian Silver badge

          Re: Where did you get that $20 padlock?

          "Put a little tension on the hasp and tap either side of the body"

          A problem with most 'snap-shut' type padlocks. The bolt is spring-loaded so as to allow the shackle to depress it when closing. Anything that can jostle the bolt back and forth (smacking it or a thin metal shim) can get it back open.

          Better padlocks have the equivalent of deadbolts and key retention. You need the key to positively rotate the bolt into the locked position. And you can't take the key out unless the shackle is closed.

          1. Rob Crawford

            Re: Where did you get that $20 padlock?

            Just rap the lock (as it's phrased) and the pawls bounce open on masterlocks and similar, hence it is wise to use something which uses ball bearings to secure the hasp

            Shimming tends to be irritating and sometimes they even make one that fits together proper properly.

            For chinese built locks usually the locking mechanism isn't protected so a 'knife' can be shoved up through the key way and used to unlatch the catches.

      2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: Where did you get that $20 padlock?

        "Probably half the padlocks in a 10 mile radius open with the same key."

        For years it seemed every filing cabinet I saw had a lock with the same key number.

        1. GIRZiM
          Devil

          Re: every filing cabinet I saw had a lock with the same key number

          Not that there's anything unusual about that of course.

          I mean, they're indented metal in metal, really quite small (not to say tiny in fact) and you have to get up quite close to read the number and compare it to the one you've memorised for just such an occasion and the light from the window, the overhead striplight or your torch has to be right, or they're almost impossible to read at the best of times, but it's not like you were looking to engage in industrial espionage or anything.

        2. I3N
          Coat

          Re: Where did you get that $20 padlock?

          Invest in a S100 and the world was yours ...

          or a L001 and mine is yours.

      3. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

        Re: Where did you get that $20 padlock?

        "Our only-game-in-a-small-town hardware store went for Master's case load discount. Guess what? Probably half the padlocks in a 10 mile radius open with the same key..."

        When I was a kid growing up, Gran lived a few doors down across the street. Our back door key opened her back door. Being a kid I never gave it a thought. It was a happy coincidence that everyone agreed was convenient. It was only years later I realised a three lever mortice lock only has 6 effective combinations (can't use 0 or 7) so at least 1 in 6 houses on the estate shared back door keys! Of course, back then, no one really thought about stuff like that. People generally just accepted whatever locks the house builders happened to cheap out on. You only changed the lock if it broke or you were having a new door fitted for some reason such as rotten wood.

        1. onefang Silver badge

          Re: Where did you get that $20 padlock?

          "Our back door key opened her back door."

          Had the same thing when our family visited relatives in a different state back in the '60s. When we arrived, they where not home, so someone tried our key in their door, and it opened. Cue large grins on all of us kids, coz the relos lived above the lolly shop they ran.

    4. jake Silver badge

      Depends on the restaurant.

      For example, most truck stops, which are nominally restaurants that offer fuel, sell almost everything ... and I've seen many restaurants attached to hotels that sell eyeglass repair kits, which contain screwdrivers. Just sayin' ...

    5. Blank Reg Silver badge

      My keychain has 2 sizes each of flat and Philips screwdrivers, so I'm set should I need to suddenly go on a burglary spree.

      1. CAPS LOCK Silver badge

        "My keychain has 2 sizes each ..."

        Here in the enlightened paradise of the UK that's called 'Going equipped'...

        1. graeme leggett Silver badge

          Re: "My keychain has 2 sizes each ..."

          A phrase matched by "is anything known?" at the end of the subsequent trial.

        2. jake Silver badge

          Re: "My keychain has 2 sizes each ..."

          Out of curiosity, can you still openly carry a Leatherman in UK? Because if that's not "going equipped" I don't know what is ... What about coins? I can't tell you how many times I've removed screws with a coin ... Can a child be fingered for picking up steel street sweeper tines? Those things are easily fashioned into lock picks ... The hydraulic jack in my truck can be used to defeat security gates ... and the HighLift is even more useful.

          1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

            Re: "My keychain has 2 sizes each ..."

            Out of curiosity, can you still openly carry a Leatherman in UK? Because if that's not "going equipped" I don't know what is ...

            Yup. With caveats. Leatherman may also have a problem given it's a lock knife, which means it can also fall foul of other badly worded legislation. Or future legislation given there's perception of a knife problem in parts of the UK. But there's also pragmatism, ie you can go equipped or carry a knife, if you can justify it and convince the police officer that you're not up to no good. Which may of course be harder if you've got jacks, power tools and a 44" bolt cropper down your trousers at 3am outside a warehouse that isn't yours.

            Which is also why I like Bosnianbill's YouTube channel. He's a lock guru and reviews common and less common locks, including their ability to resist typical criminal's attacks and tools. Nice example here-

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G73ZNe2W3NY

            Showing a socket modified to over torque locks. Easy for criminals to conceal, less easy to explain to a police officer if you're caught carrying it.

          2. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

            Re: "My keychain has 2 sizes each ..."

            "Out of curiosity, can you still openly carry a Leatherman in UK? Because if that's not "going equipped" I don't know what is"

            "Going equipped" isn't quite as cut'n'dried as stated. Circumstances have a lot to do with it. After all, many people carry tools or other items that could be used for nefarious things all the time.

          3. rmason Silver badge

            Re: "My keychain has 2 sizes each ..."

            @Jake

            Re uk/leatherman. I keep mine in my car.

            IF they have a locking blade, we can't carry them technically. It's not black and white. we are "allowed" tools. So it's all about context really.

            If you're a local scrotum caught with one at 11pm, i'd not fancy your chances. if you're not a little scumbag, and you have a reason/justification to be carrying it, that is supposed to be fine (i.e. a workman with one in a bag of tools, would be different to as hooded youth out at night. It's a bit murky.

            Any model without a locking blade of over something like 3 inches, and you're fine.

            Blade length+lock is what it goes on.

            1. A K Stiles

              Re: Going equipped

              I believe it also has something to do with how you answer any questions the police might ask - e.g

              Polis : "I see you have a perfume spray there madam that isn't the perfume you are wearing..."

              Woman: "Oh yes, that's so if someone attacks me I can spray it in their face and get away"

              Polis: "...and that'll be considered an offensive weapon, if you'd like to accompany me to the station"

              Now obviously you are allowed to carry perfume sprays, just not with the intention of using them as a weapon - same with many other things like wrecking bars, pipe wrenches. You just have to have a good, legal, and preferably verifiable, reason for carrying them, and for the most sensible law enforcement officer to be having a good day.

            2. Gordon861

              Re: "My keychain has 2 sizes each ..."

              As the law is written, any non-locking blade under 3 inches does not need a 'good reason'. However the moment you say it's for defence you are now breaking the law no matter the size of the blade.

              1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

                Re: "My keychain has 2 sizes each ..."

                I think the decent sized Leatherman's blades are a bit over 3". But then it doesn't exactly have a butterfly knife's speed of deployment. Might be faster to shove the pliers up a miscreant's nostrils and give them a good twist rather than try getting the blade out.

                But the only time I've ever been stopped while 'going equipped' was on my way to Docklands at an ungodly hour to fix a sick mux, so a reasonable explanation for tools and test kit.

                1. jake Silver badge

                  Re: "My keychain has 2 sizes each ..."

                  I'll ignore the silly "weapons" laws for the moment, quite content that I'll be able to openly carry my Leatherman and Buck 110 (or Schrade LB7, depending on mood) and a couple lockpicks without my government getting up my ass about it into the foreseeable future (unless I'm actually doing something illegal)... However, I feel a need to comment on this part:

                  "But the only time I've ever been stopped while 'going equipped' was on my way to Docklands at an ungodly hour"

                  What reason did plod have to stop you in the first place? Just because you were out and about at the same exact "ungodly" hour that plod was out and about? Did plod fail to notice that some people actually work at that hour, and being out and about is perfectly reasonable? Or is everybody who doesn't march in lock-step with TheGreatUnwashed automagically guilty of something? That's a mighty slippery slope your .gov is skating on ... Are dusk-to-dawn curfews next?

                  Brixton (Toxteth, Handsworth, etc.) happened for a reason ... are you lot ready for a repeat? It was really, really ugly the first time around. I was there for a good portion of the late '70s and early '80s, I know of what I speak ...

                  ::insert pithy comment about doomed to repeat history, etc. here::

              2. This post has been deleted by its author

              3. jake Silver badge

                Re: "My keychain has 2 sizes each ..."

                "As the law is written, any non-locking blade under 3 inches does not need a 'good reason'."

                How about a couple of feet of fixed blade? And how do they define "good reason"? I use my aging Buck 110 (or old Schrade LB7) probably a dozen times per day, every day, and my not quite as old Leatherman Super Tool more times than that.

                "However the moment you say it's for defence you are now breaking the law no matter the size of the blade."

                What kind of blithering idiot would claim a pocket knife was a defensive weapon? People like that are more a danger to themselves than to anybody else. No need for plod, let Darwin sort 'em out.

                Continuing the theme ... am I allowed to carry my walking stick? Mine is white oak, 7'2" by approximately 1.85". I forged iron caps for each end of it, mainly because I don't want it to wear out before I'm done with it. It's a comfy piece of wood ... When I ran across it, I knew exactly what it was meant to be. Comes in handy for stability in rain, mud & snow, and when I'm moving sheep & cattle around. Great tool, everybody should have one :-)

            3. This post has been deleted by its author

    6. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      "I'll stick to my (not quite quite as easy to compromise) padlocks that I paid $20 dollars for"

      I'll stick to the ancient Yale monster securing my shed. It's older than I am. Probably considerably older. It looks more like something built in a shipyard than a lock factory. OTOH it wouldn't be that hard to break through the side of the shed...

      1. werdsmith Silver badge

        Yes, Old English design 660 easy enough to pick but usually not worth it because most things padlocks are protecting can be got at by a thief another way. But the 660 will survive decades of weather beating and still open when needed and keep the kids away from the mower.

  5. Adrian 4 Silver badge

    tamper-proof screws aren't

    Not sure I can blame them for using philips screws. There are various screwheads around that are claimed to be tamperproof, but really they're just mildly inconvenient.

    Many of them have drivers available in a kit from your nearest poundshop (where available) and those that don't can usually be defeated by hitting a cheap chinesium screwdriver so it moulds itself to the screwhead.

    In short, they're worthless : tamperable by anyone over the age of 2 and most certainly by someone with an inclination towards overcoming locks.

    1. jake Silver badge

      Re: tamper-proof screws aren't

      I have a small fitted plastic case containing 154 bits that can be used to remove nearly every "tamper proof" screw known to man. It cost me all of $19.95 from Ace Hardware about 20 years ago. They are not the best quality tools on the planet, but they have done the job for me all these years. And wonder of wonders, I haven't lost one yet ...

      All you "remote job site" folks out there would do worse than to keep such a kit (and the required 1/4 inch driver) in your traveling gear. I also throw in a complete 1/4 inch ratchet set, just because I can. Has saved me I don't know how many hundreds of hours over the decades.

      (Since I last posted this, I've run across a couple new bits that my kit doesn't handle. A dollar or so later, and I'm covered. That's a pretty good price for a once in a couple decades upgrade!)

      1. Allan George Dyer Silver badge

        Re: tamper-proof screws aren't

        @jake - "I have a small fitted plastic case containing 154 bits that can be used to remove nearly every "tamper proof" screw known to man."

        But did it contain the Apple pentalobes?

        1. Will Godfrey Silver badge

          Re: tamper-proof screws aren't

          There are such things as tamper-proof screws. They are countersunk (of course) and made of some hardened steel, use-once and done up with a standard crosshead screwdriver. However the head profile is sort of sloped so there is no 'undo' edge. The really sneaky bit is the underside of the countersink has lots of reverse sawteeth. They slightly deform the underlying metal as you screw them in, and even without the odd head profile, would dig in hard if you tried to undo them.

          1. Paul Hovnanian Silver badge

            Re: tamper-proof screws aren't

            "However the head profile is sort of sloped so there is no 'undo' edge."

            Commonly used on bathroom stall partitions. It's a strange world we live in when our valuables are secured behind common Phillips head screws. But you just try to steal our toilet door .....

            1. Anonymous Cow Herder

              Re: tamper-proof screws aren't

              "Commonly used on bathroom stall partitions. It's a strange world we live in when our valuables are secured behind common Phillips head screws. But you just try to steal our toilet door"

              Which is a good thing too. When you gotta go, you gotta go.

          2. mark l 2 Silver badge

            Re: tamper-proof screws aren't

            "There are such things as tamper-proof screws. They are countersunk (of course) and made of some hardened steel, use-once and done up with a standard crosshead screwdriver. However the head profile is sort of sloped so there is no 'undo' edge. The really sneaky bit is the underside of the countersink has lots of reverse sawteeth. They slightly deform the underlying metal as you screw them in, and even without the odd head profile, would dig in hard if you tried to undo them."

            With enough torque you can get even these out, I know I have done it using a electric screw driver with a flat head bit, if you put enough downward pressure on the screw head it will still bite despite the sloping edges.

            The question should probably be why use screws at all, if the back was not supposed to come off as they claim they could weld it in place.

            1. jake Silver badge

              Re: tamper-proof screws aren't

              You don't even need that much torque. A couple passes with a needle file and they usually back right out like a normal screw.

              1. Cpt Blue Bear

                Re: tamper-proof screws aren't

                "You don't even need that much torque. A couple passes with a needle file and they usually back right out like a normal screw."

                Not if they are used correctly and If you managed it like that than they definitely weren't.

                They should be countersunk to stop tampering with the head. They should also be torqued past the plastic deformation point so any serious force applied snaps the head off. For bonus points, make them harder than the case metal so a hand drill tends to skate sideways and break the bit.

                Like all security measures, it comes down to how serious an attacker you need to keep out.

                1. HieronymusBloggs Silver badge

                  Re: tamper-proof screws aren't

                  "They should be countersunk to stop tampering with the head."

                  Countersinking won't prevent tampering, but counterboring them might.

                  1. Cpt Blue Bear

                    Re: tamper-proof screws aren't

                    Pedantically speaking you are correct but out in The Real World(tm)* you'll find "countersunk" used for any recess at the top of a fastener hole. Most of them are neither "sunk" nor "bored" but cast, moulded or, in the case of almost all I produce, 3D printed. :-)

                    * A scary place. I recommend avoiding it as much as possible.

          3. Cpt Blue Bear

            Re: tamper-proof screws aren't

            "There are such things as tamper-proof screws."

            I hate those feckers. Just drill them out and replace with allen screws. It invalidates the warranty but I'm guessing that ship sailed some time ago.

            1. I3N
              Angel

              Personally prefer the aesthetics of button head socket cap screws ...

              Something like a 1/4 or M6 or larger in SS ...

              Just shreds and jams those hex bits - cheap or expensive - after the first couple of screws.

              Which isn't that the purpose of security - to slow down the opposition

        2. jake Silver badge

          Re: tamper-proof screws aren't

          No, Allan. Pentalobe didn't even exist when I bought the kit. Thus "nearly".

          (However, did you read as far as the colophon?)

        3. Lord Elpuss Silver badge

          Re: tamper-proof screws aren't

          ”@jake - "I have a small fitted plastic case containing 154 bits that can be used to remove nearly every "tamper proof" screw known to man."

          But did it contain the Apple pentalobes?“

          It’s Jake. He came up with the idea of pentalobes during a pilgrimage to Israel where he had a vision of a Torx morphing into the Star of David above the stable where he was staying. He was later ceremonially presented with the first gold-plated Pentalobe set by Steve Jobs himself; at Steve’s house, over dinner; before spending the next six months personally instructing Apple’s designers on how to use them correctly.

          1. jake Silver badge

            Re: tamper-proof screws aren't

            Oh, kewl! A fanboi! It's even making up fan fiction about me. I must have arrived :-)

            1. Lord Elpuss Silver badge

              Re: tamper-proof screws aren't

              ”Oh, kewl! A fanboi! It's even making up fan fiction about me. I must have arrived :-)“

              All fiction writers have their fanbases ;)

              1. jake Silver badge

                Re: tamper-proof screws aren't

                Seems to me that someone very close to you once wrote "Don't just call bollocks, if you have evidence to refute, feel free to reference it."

                Physician, heal thyself.

    2. Lord Elpuss Silver badge

      Re: tamper-proof screws aren't

      "...those that don't can usually be defeated by hitting a cheap chinesium screwdriver so it moulds itself to the screwhead"

      Upvote for Chinesium :))

      1. Chris G Silver badge

        Re: tamper-proof screws aren't

        Chinesium = AvE A Canadian engineer on You Tube, if you like engineering 'stuff' as opposed to digits, this is the NSFW engineer to watch.

        1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

          Re: tamper-proof screws aren't

          AvE A Canadian engineer on You Tube

          Especially the calibrated 'CH' ruler

        2. Chris G Silver badge

          Re: tamper-proof screws aren't

          Chinesium; today's episode.

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiADday0mDA&feature=em-uploademail

          I love the presentation on these videos

        3. MachDiamond Silver badge

          Re: tamper-proof screws aren't

          "Chinesium = AvE A Canadian engineer on You Tube,"

          Big upvote for AvE. A must view channel. Not only is he hilarious, he's a damn good engineer. My guess is he works in the mining/oil industry. Check out his "engine swap" on a ... err, Ladies' personal massager. Bring spare undies and don't be drinking anything.

      2. I3N
        Pint

        Re: tamper-proof screws aren't

        Chinesium - aka chrome plated pot metal

    3. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: tamper-proof screws aren't

      "There are various screwheads around that are claimed to be tamperproof, but really they're just mildly inconvenient."

      We had a new HP tape drive with a shipping bar secured by Torx screws back when they were new and supposedly uncommon. The engineers who came to set it up were a bit taken aback to find it already being used. My cheap screwdriver set already included a range of Torx bits.

    4. ecofeco Silver badge

      Re: tamper-proof screws aren't

      Chinesium

      Have an upvote!

    5. Anonymous Cow Herder

      Re: tamper-proof screws aren't

      Agreed. A padlock by definition should be more than tamper proof. Security is not a "feature" of a lock.

      It should require a great deal of force to open illegitimately. The more I spend on the lock, the more force is required.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Yay "Dumb Fucks" Generation - Where can I get one?

    IoT = Internet-of-Tat --- or --- Internet-of-Twats --- or --- Internet-of-Threats

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    IoT

    As seen on these hallowed pages long before: Always remember the "S" in "IoT" stands for Security.

    1. Scott Marshall
      Facepalm

      Re: IoT

      One must know how to identify IoT security.

      Identify IoT Security.

      ergo IDIoTS.

  8. AndyFl

    This must be one of the funny stories I've read in a very long time. I'm still laughing as I wrote this.

    The scary thing is there are going to be some people out there who think they have just received a wonderful and secure lock. Misrepresentation is only one of the words that come to mind about this pile of crap.

    Andy

    1. adnim Silver badge

      You right Andy...

      It takes a grifter to grift a grifter. I takes an advertisement to grift the public.

  9. Uplink

    It happens with old school locks too

    My front door's dumb locks were installed with the screws on the outside for some reason and nobody who lived in the property before me noticed. And I only noticed because I went to change the cylinders.

    1. 404 Silver badge

      Re: It happens with old school locks too

      No, it does *not* happen with non-chinesium old school locks - your case was a dumbass installer, not a manufacturing design defect lol.

  10. Big John Silver badge
    Devil

    Devil's Advocate

    As a deterrent to opportunistic sneak thieves it should work well, assuming it never becomes a common item. Trouble is, the price. Usually such low level protection is low cost as well. Apparently it's meant for the boutique crowd who only care that it's fingerprint-ready. Presumably such people aren't that concerned about monetary losses anyway.

    I see it as the iPhone of locks.

    1. Mage Silver badge

      Re: Devil's Advocate

      Apple's stuff may be overpriced, but it usually does what it claims. It's libel to compare these to iPhones.

      It seems worse than those cheap 4 digit combination locks on chains for bikes, the ones were you tension the chain and you can feel the rings.

      How long does the charge last and how it is charged?

      1. Swiss Anton

        Re: Devil's Advocate

        "How long does the charge last and how it is charged?"

        And what happens if you try to charge it from the mains without using some kind of AC to low voltage DC adapter*.

        (*Don't try this at home, try it at someone else's home, someone who is daft enough to have bought one of these locks)

        1. Jason Bloomberg Silver badge

          Re: Devil's Advocate

          And what happens if you try to charge it from the mains without using some kind of AC to low voltage DC adapter*.

          I would guess that's mostly done for shits and giggles to see how the owner handles it when they find they can't get their super-secure lock open and have to take the whole door and frame out.

          In this case though; not so much of a problem.

    2. Lord Elpuss Silver badge

      Re: Devil's Advocate

      "I see it as the iPhone of locks."

      You couldn't be more wrong; this is the iPhone of locks. Simple, clean, form follows function, does what it needs to do and gets out of your way.

      And it's made of Triduralumin which costs $1000 per ounce.

      1. JacobZ

        Re: Devil's Advocate

        Sounds like the lock is worth stealing

  11. Lt.Kije

    A Prize For These Guys

    So, I am honored to nominate theses chumps for the inaugural award of the Elizabeth Holmes Trophy.

  12. 89724102372714581892524I9755670349743096734346773478647852349863592355648544996313855148583659264921

    Idiocracy, it's here.

    1. Notas Badoff Silver badge

      Trending now: "Stupid"

      IQ Scores Are Falling in "Worrying" Reversal of 20th Century Intelligence Boom

      Flynn effect and its reversal are both environmentally caused (Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences)

      You hoped you were joking when you said this before, didn't you?

      1. GIRZiM

        Re: Falling IQ scores

        I am constantly surprised to find that I am still surprised by how clever, knowledgable and thoughtful people aren't.

        However, in my defence, it has to be said that people do seem to be getting stupider as the years go by ... stupider, ignoranter and thoughtlesser - so maybe I shouldn't be.

        1. Ledswinger Silver badge

          Re: Falling IQ scores

          However, in my defence, it has to be said that people do seem to be getting stupider as the years go by

          This was known almost a quarter of a century ago.

          1. GIRZiM

            Re: Falling IQ scores

            This was known almost a quarter of a century ago.

            Heh.

            But it's been going on a lot longer than that - my mother was already telling me how ignorant I was long before a quarter of a century ago ;-)

  13. Steve Knox Silver badge
    Facepalm

    3. We are giving replacements to anyone who is able to open the back-cover without damaging the locks.

    Because criminals are going to try to not damage the locks? If the back cover can be removed, damage or no, then the lock is not fit for purpose.

    1. Lord Elpuss Silver badge

      I think they're hoping that owners will test their own locks and return them if defective. Cheaper than a recall.

  14. A-nonCoward

    low temperature alloy

    says "It isn't very strong, it melts at high temperatures and it is quite brittle. "

    You surely mean "(Zamak) melts at low temperatures"

    Yes, indeed quite brittle

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: low temperature alloy

      'You surely mean "(Zamak) melts at low temperatures" '

      Also, https://www.dynacast.com/zamak-3 states that it's a zinc alloy, not an aluminium alloy. One has to wonder what a good belt with a hammer would do to a padlock made out of the stuff.

  15. onefang Silver badge
    Joke

    It's not a lock I would pick.

    1. Alpy

      I see what you did there ;-)

    2. Lord Elpuss Silver badge
  16. JWLong

    Q: Do people "Invent" stuff like this just to prove how stupid they are?

    A: Yes.

    Q: Do people "Buy" stuff like this to prove how stupid they are?

    A: Yes

    Q: Do people..........never mind!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Very related: Blood Simple Comment on that movie about Teranos with the lady from the Hunger Games.

  17. Tim99 Silver badge

    The Bruce Willis film RED

    Willis has to break into the CIA headquarters - He disguises himself as a General and descends to a hidden floor in an lift. To get to the highly secret archives he has to open a door with an unbreakable lock that has an access code that changes every 6 hours. He kicks through the plasterboard wall at the side of the door to get to the mechanism and opens the door in about 5 seconds.

    1. jake Silver badge

      Re: The Bruce Willis film RED

      Been there, done that.

      https://forums.theregister.co.uk/forum/containing/3386125

      1. Lord Elpuss Silver badge

        Re: The Bruce Willis film RED

        Didn't you blow up an asteroid too a few years back?

    2. John Gamble

      Re: The Bruce Willis film RED

      I like this lock defeat (Youtube, 22s) the best.

    3. Barry Rueger Silver badge

      Re: The Bruce Willis film RED

      A stunning number of supposedly secure offices have walls that only go as high as the suspended ceiling. Pop a tile, jump over, drop down on the other side.

      Then open the door from the inside and replace the tiles.

  18. cantankerous swineherd Silver badge

    my fingerprint lock is invincible to people with no fingers. ask me how.

    1. Rich 11 Silver badge
      1. jake Silver badge

        Scrambled.

        Of course.

        (STR, win a beer.)

    2. Big John Silver badge

      As long as they still have toes...

  19. Neil Barnes Silver badge

    Don't you love the way that...

    almost everything with an IoT label appears to be both attempting to solve a problem that doesn't exist, and simultaneously provide a solution that is more complex and less secure than traditional methods?

    Just get something with a key. It's not there to protect the crown jewels; it's to slow someone down long enough to make it not worth them bothering to try and break it.

    But, oooh, it's shiny!

  20. Alpy

    As I was reading...

    ...I thought to myself this product sounds so awful it must of been crowdfunded on Indiegogo and to my relief I was right!

    Never fund or support anything on Indidgogo! It is the wild west of crowd funding. So many scams and failed ideas come out of this terrible piece of the internet.

    1. Lord Elpuss Silver badge

      Re: As I was reading...

      "...it must of been"

      ...it must HAVE been.

    2. James 51 Silver badge

      Re: As I was reading...

      That's not entirely fair. I have a Gemini. If you have a functioning 5MX and can live with the limited connection options it is far more robust and a better typing experience but the Gemini lives up to its billing with the reservation that due to the positioning of the speakers it is difficult to have a private conversation with it.

      1. werdsmith Silver badge

        Re: As I was reading...

        I have a Gemini and from the word go I knew it was never going to be a phone replacement. But the job I bought it for, it's unique and has no competition.

        And there are failures on IndieGogo and we hear all about them but most campaigns on there are successful.

        1. doublelayer

          Re: As I was reading...

          That's all true, but I would say that all the stories about things being made with croudfunding that are delivered late if ever and don't work have made me less likely to try it myself. Also, to what extent do other sites have the same level of nonexistent products? I don't hear these stories so much about kickstarter, for instance. There have been a few things I thought about buying from croudfunding projects. I've just checked one of them, which appears to be fully vaporware. It was supposed to ship two years ago and the page hasn't been updated since then. Maybe I'm right to continue to start with distrust and allow them to try to build up from there.

          1. Ledswinger Silver badge

            Re: As I was reading...

            Maybe I'm right to continue to start with distrust and allow them to try to build up from there.

            Originally, stock exchanges were created to bring together speculative investors and entrepreneurs + crooks. They were staggeringly successful in both categories. Over a couple of hundred years the unimaginative, the lazy, and the stupid (so neither investors, entrepreneurs, or crooks) have added sufficient bureaucracy and regulation that stock exchanges have ceased to be a source of capital for formative businesses.

            In that respect crowdfunding has to be applauded, and regulation resisted. There have been and will be many failures, and lots of fraud. But the whole point of equity investment is that it involves risk. If you can't afford to lose your stake, you shouldn't be playing.

    3. MachDiamond Silver badge

      Re: As I was reading...

      "Never fund or support anything on Indidgogo! It is the wild west of crowd funding. So many scams and failed ideas come out of this terrible piece of the internet."

      I wouldn't go that far. The Tesla Museum used Indiegogo to raise funds to buy Wardencliff. It's a matter of using common sense. A pad lock with Bluetooth and a fingerprint scanner is just dumb. As it was said in another comment, it's a solution looking for a problem to solve. The price is also ridiculous.

      1. doublelayer

        Re: As I was reading...

        Maybe, but there are plenty of things that would be useful. In the case of a thing I considered backing, a phone case that records phone calls and can also act as a convenient audio recorder. That's something I could use, as I find it handy to start a recording with a press of a button, which my phone can't do (unlocking, opening app, and pressing a button is fine but can take a few seconds which annoys the person you want to record, and won't work if you're on the phone. It is a product I want, the price seems fine, and the people are near their estimate of how much money they need to make it, so they should have enough. I don't know what happened in that case, because I didn't end up supporting, but all I know is that they haven't made any of these, the page is dead, and I'm disappointed because I can't buy it.

  21. Christian Berger Silver badge

    Prediction for the next problems

    The standard things to try out would be:

    Using a strong magnet to make the motor turn without being told to do so. That way you could open the lock.

    Reading off the fingerprint from the reader, generating a fingerprint mask and using it on the device. If they were really stupid, they didn't check for "latent fingerprints" and all you have to do is breathe at it.

    1. Lord Elpuss Silver badge

      Re: Prediction for the next problems

      "The standard things to try out would be:

      Using a strong magnet to make the motor turn without being told to do so. That way you could open the lock.

      Reading off the fingerprint from the reader, generating a fingerprint mask and using it on the device. If they were really stupid, they didn't check for "latent fingerprints" and all you have to do is breathe at it."

      Magnets won't work on steppers, and decent fingerprint scanners will ignore masks - which would make these methods useless for any well designe... oh wait.

      1. Christian Berger Silver badge

        Re: Prediction for the next problems

        "Magnets won't work on steppers, and decent fingerprint scanners will ignore masks - which would make these methods useless for any well designe... oh wait."

        Well actually magnets work on most kinds of motors. You essentially emulate the fields which the coils generate by sliding a magnet down the side, then turning the magnet and doing it again.

        Fingerprint scanners don't ignore masks, as with any biometric method you can always fool them. Usually even very easily. (see Touch-ID)

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Prediction for the next problems

          "Well actually magnets work on most kinds of motors"

          Good luck trying that idea on a three phase induction motor - okay, okay, not that you'd find such a beast inside a small battery powered device.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Prediction for the next problems

      The programming / battery-charge port on padlock body.. digital attacks aside I wonder if the battery can be made to explode

  22. Maelstorm Bronze badge
    Trollface

    They finally did it...

    They finally did it... They finally made a lock that every intelligence agency on the planet can fall in love with. I'll bet they won't use it themselves.

    1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: They finally did it...

      "I'll bet they won't use it themselves."

      Don't be too sure. Taking a whole archive home to run on a PC. Using gmail for Company business. The people whose job it is to break into other people's stuff don't seem that interested in protecting themselves. Is it any wonder they don't see what's wrong with their idea of the public running back-doored devices?

  23. MatsSvensson

    App?

    But the app had facebook and twitter right?

    You cant think of everything!

  24. Chris Holford

    -so buy a Bramah lock...(invented 1784)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bramah_lock

    Still available.

  25. Haku

    Anyone want to join me in this padlock venture? We could make a fortune!

    SimonPadlock.jpg

  26. graeme leggett Silver badge

    Zamak

    It was structurally crap when used for the door handles and window winders on British cars of the 60s and 70s, and it is today.

    I'll admit the poor quality of chroming probably had something to do with it but I remember the way it would corrode blistering off the remaining chrome.

  27. graeme leggett Silver badge
    Coat

    Obligatory SF reference to scan locks

    "Anybody authorized to go through the gate has a physio-psycho pattern registered in the central computer... When he wants to go through, this scans him and feeds the reading back to the computer. All you've got to do is intercept the feedback from the computer. Now, you stand in front and I'll press the scan button. Retrieval system, no record, refusal signal, now." [ the gate swings open]

    Mines the one next to a 1970s plastic cool box.

    1. The Oncoming Scorn
      Alien

      Re: Obligatory SF reference to scan locks

      You are Vila Restal & I claim the bounty offered by the Federation.

  28. Dave 15 Silver badge

    Oneway screws

    One way only screws are available easily enough, most extension blocks in the UK use these nasty pieces (they are typically slot head screws but with a slope on the 'undo' direction rather than the flat surface so as you try and unscrew then the driver merely slides up, when doing up that direction has the normal flat surface so works.

    As to the 'pin' idea, if thats all that holds the back from unscrewing I wonder if it is nicely hardened so my battery powered drill wont just go straight through it.

    Is the lock made by apple? Sounds like a triumph of marketing over actual design

    1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Re: Oneway screws

      Is the lock made by apple?

      It does have rounded corners, but on the other hand it is only $100

    2. Jason Bloomberg Silver badge
      Coat

      Re: Oneway screws

      most extension blocks in the UK use these nasty pieces

      If you can't get them out by simply applying vertical force while turning them; the heads can usually be drilled away, the extension assembly pulled apart, the screws removed with a Mole Wrench.

      They are mainly for health and safety, to stop idiots taking apart things they shouldn't be taking apart.

      Mine's the one with the cut-down 6" nail 'fuse' in the pocket.

  29. Chris G Silver badge

    DA security systems

    Are much better than this lock;

    Disused lavatory, locked filing cabinet etc

    For added security don't tell anyone which disused lavatory to look in.

    1. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge
      Happy

      Re: DA security systems

      Guard leopards optional...

  30. Barbarian At the Gates

    My House is Invincible!

    > "We designed this fingerprint lock of againsting [sic] theft," it begins. "However the lock is invincible to the people who do not have a screwdriver."

    My house is invincible to the people when it does not have people.

  31. FlippingGerman

    He just happened to buy the one with a dud pin? Fuck off.

    This ought to be counted as fraud, although writing a definition might be difficult. Obviously padlocks aren't supposed to be unbreakable, but harder than trivial would be good. The alternative is to say market forces make bad products disappear, but how many will see this for sale in a shop and buy it without checking up on it?

    1. cybergibbons

      The three we bought to find issues cannot be opened in this way. The one of those I opened has the pin in place.

  32. GIRZiM
  33. cray74 Silver badge

    Zamak 3

    "Unfortunately, as materials engineers are happy to point out, aluminum may be a lovely lightweight metal..."

    Zamak-3 is actually about 95% zinc and not more than 4.3% aluminum.

    1. Dwarf Silver badge

      Re: Zamak 3

      But Zinc's melting point is below that of aluminium, The only positive of this is that the Zinc fumes will be quite bad for you. Not that aluminium fumes are good for you either, but its a relative thing,

  34. saxicola

    How do you defeat "attack dogs"? Decoy cats! A couple fo those and your dogs are off chasing cats leaving me to walk in and pillage at will. Of course, if your name is Will then that's a different matter. Dark matter? Well that's another matter of course..

    1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

      "Of course, if your name is Will then that's a different matter."

      No need to worry about Will. Everyone gets to fire at Will.

  35. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    It's like video doorbells w/secure locks. You see the commercials. Only idiot amateur crooks would try to access the house or steal a package when they see the doorbell. IoT must make "cyberhacks" laughing at how easy it is to bypass any "protect your home" electronic lock.

    This "ingenious" pad lock sold itself to many who crowd sourced it but who never even thought for a second how easy it would be to bypass it.

    For me, as insecure as some might claim, traditional locks are the way to go. Yes my car has a smart lock (no options not to have one) but I am careful to try to avoid usaing my remote in parking lots. It's really too bad as ideas like this smart padlock are interesting but oversold on the security aspect.

    Oh, as they are manufactured in China, it also makes me feel much better as I really trust the Chinese government and their companies :-)

  36. Paper

    I think the fact that you can take bolt cutters to it renders it pretty useless from the outset.

  37. MK_E

    Ah, nothing says "internet of things" like some startup with vague knowledge of IT and no knowledge of an existing market deciding that their on-a-computer idea is enough for them to just wing it when it comes to the actual nitty-gritty of the market in question. Who knew that locksmithing was something that takes actual skill and experience?

  38. MacroRodent Silver badge
    FAIL

    Reminds me...

    Reminds me of the very cheap Chinese locks I used as a kid to lock my yacht club locker. In case the key was lost (which happened a couple of times), this kind of lock was about as easy to break as the Tapplock, but they cost something like 50 cents instead of $100, so it was acceptable.

    Anyway the story was really comical. Sounds like the design team did not include anyone with a clue about making any kind of lock, and apparently not very good programmers either.

  39. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "However the lock is invincible to the people who do not have a screwdriver."

    Maybe it's a sex toy?

  40. Andytug

    I found the quickest way to open a cheap padlock when the keys were lost was to put a 1/4" socket extension bar on top of the hasp, then hit down on it with a hammer. Unsubtle, but effective.....wonder how this POS would stand up to that?

    1. MK_E

      Brute force: if it doesn't work, you're not using enough of it.

      1. onefang Silver badge

        "Brute force: if it doesn't work, you're not using enough of it."

        Brute force and ignorance, you left out the ignorance. Which fits perfectly well in your statement.

  41. Giovani Tapini

    Another good idea

    devastated by poor implementation

  42. N2 Silver badge

    Geek lock

    Who needs a code?

    Any battery powered angle grinder would do.

  43. Rob Crawford

    The Uervoton is even worse it actually has it's screws accessible on the outside https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Uje4pxfSlI&t=0s

    Many regular mechanical padlocks are not much better (some are actually worse) with your hardware store.

  44. 0laf Silver badge

    Successful thieves are usually pretty efficient. I suspect rather than farting around with scanners etc they'll just hit this POS hard with a hammer.

    Even if you can't break this quickly by hitting it all you have to do is disable the electronic element (probably by hitting it hard with a hammer or rock) then the user will have to leave their bike. That'll give you plenty of time through the night to work on it.

    My old Oxford bike lock weighed about 1Kg and was shatter and cutter resistant. It probably protected a motorbike which was worth considerably less than the bikes locked up by the hipster users of this shit

  45. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    they had a great marketing team but a non existent security team

    well, what's the problem, I mean, it's not like they sell a security-related product, innit...

  46. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Russian Bot Invasion?

    Real question is how does a project like this get anywhere a green light to proceed and get taken seriously. Where these all Business majors avoiding hiring experts?

    Jokes about guard dogs but no one is citing Dilbert?

    Between garbage like this and the UK replacing the English Common law with 1984, I need to f*cking retire. UKIP or GTFO.

  47. MCMLXV
    Thumb Up

    @Dave Bell

    "He got a nasty suck."

    +1 for the (Ex-) King Gruntfuttock reference :-)

  48. ThePieMan

    Great product

    Yeah but apart from the flaws listed, it’s great right?

    1. Swarthy Silver badge

      Re: Great product

      "Other than that; Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play?"

  49. jelabarre59 Silver badge

    Proprietary screws

    And that will work for about as long as it takes for Harbor Freight Tools to start including it in their security screws toolkit (or whatever equivalent store you have on your side of the pond).

    1. MachDiamond Silver badge

      Re: Proprietary screws

      Rock beats proprietary screws. If somebody has the time to unscrew a few screws and twiddle around inside to unlock the lock, the game has already been lost. That's just too fiddly. A good bash or pry will have that lock open without the need for a set of special screwdriver tips.

      I had an occasion where a person locked a double gate on the other side and didn't put the lock at the end of each section of chain welded to the gates (again) and I was so pissed (in a hurry and didn't want to spend 10 minutes going around the long way through the other gate) that I gave the gates a big push. Snapped the hasp clean in two. Hmmmm. The mass of the gates coupled with the quality of the chain and welds beat the strength of the lock. We hadn't considered that before. I could have pushed the gates much harder than I did. We could have put a much more expensive lock on the gates, but then it would have been simpler to make a couple of strategic cuts to the chain link fence right next to the gate, peeled it back and driven right in.

      Even if you clear a 1km free fire zone, install multiple fences, add tank traps, litter the space with land mines and add guard towers with armed soldiers, determined people will still get through. The cost and inconvenience of the security has to balance with the threat and the value of what's being protected.

  50. JohnFen Silver badge

    Flawed concept

    Fingerprint scanning does not provide high security. Using it in conjunction with other security mechanisms can provide benefits, but using it as the only security mechanism is foolish. Nobody should be using these sorts of locks alone to protect anything that is actually valuable.

  51. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    There's a world of pretty poor locks out there.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pU9MB5XPsp4

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IguPm5DQ70s

    Albeit, if I'd spent about $100 on a lock, I'd sort of expect better

  52. Paul 195
    Happy

    Still giggling

    "We designed this fingerprint lock of againsting [sic] theft," it begins. "However the lock is invincible to the people who do not have a screwdriver."

    At last, a solution for those of us who need to repel hordes of screwdriverless rogues.

  53. jaffa99

    Wow

    It sounds amazing, where can I get one ?

  54. astounded1

    Cool Way To Get Rid Of Crap You Don't Want Anymore

    Fill a storage cube with your crap and put one of these locks on it and dump the cube in a dodgy neighborhood. Wait 24 hours. Come back and retrieve the empty cube.

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