back to article Brit govt told to do its homework ahead of talks over post-Brexit spy laws and data flows

There is no doubt that the UK's surveillance regimes will come under scrutiny in negotiations on continued data flows with Europe after Brexit, and the government needs to start preparing for that now, MPs have been told. The British government has been repeatedly warned that gaining an adequacy decision from the EU will not …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    We need more Chocolate Fireguards.

  2. John Smith 19 Gold badge
    Holmes

    ""If [the ICO] is outside, we're not going to have same effect as we need to have"

    Funny how this Brexit thing works isn't it?

    He's an interesting one.

    A UK company offers a service to UK business which manages their staff HR issues.

    The data is held on servers in another EU country.

    Post Brexit, does EU protection extend to those persons data and if the UK regime is ruled inadequate would the company be prevented from accessing their own data?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: ""If [the ICO] is outside, we're not going to have same effect as we need to have"

      " would the company be prevented from accessing their own data? "

      Yes, but since it will be hosted on an American company cloud system the NSA will be able to provide it...

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: ""If [the ICO] is outside, we're not going to have same effect as we need to have"

        >Yes, but since it will be hosted on an American company cloud system the NSA will be able to provide it...

        And if that takes too long, the Russians and Chinese could probably expedite access...

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: ""If [the ICO] is outside, we're not going to have same effect as we need to have"

      "Funny how the 'EU' works, it's an economic & trading union but everybody ran off to China instead of directing custom to weaker and poorer countries in the union.

      Sound great lets join!

      DOH!

  3. Herring`

    A competent government would've had teams of experts working on this sort of thing from 2016-06-24. There is so much stuff to work out. Strutting round repeating "best possible deal" "Brexit means Brexit" "as frictionless as possible" doesn't get you very far.

    For a bunch who say they're committed to implementing "the will of the people" they have a funny way of showing it.

    1. Dan 55 Silver badge

      Well, the civil service should have been working on this stuff since before the referendum. But Cameron didn't let them as he knew he was going to win.

      1. hammarbtyp Silver badge

        "Well, the civil service should have been working on this stuff since before the referendum. But Cameron didn't let them as he knew he was going to win."

        They were, and basically they were telling everyone the issues were huge. Experts eh, what do they know

        The people who are in charge now, were the same people who said how easy it was going to be. You are not suggesting that they were lying are you?

        1. codejunky Silver badge

          @ hammarbtyp

          "They were, and basically they were telling everyone the issues were huge. Experts eh, what do they know"

          They did say the issues were huge didnt they. Apparently in 20+ years of being in the EU the civil service forgot how to do anything. Strangely the public sector boomed under labour and is still a huge portion of the economy and yet they dont know what they are doing. Makes me wonder why we didnt sack a load of them since we handed control over to the EU.

          Of course the rest of the world is capable of running a country and dont need the EU to do it for them so maybe our civil service need sacking if they are so incompetent? And we do know that the experts Osborne and Carney were lying as they literally claimed the outcome of brexit would do all the things they have been trying to do to return the economy to normal, but also claimed it was a bad thing! And to take their advice would be to claim Mervyn King wasnt an expert so there is that.

          "The people who are in charge now, were the same people who said how easy it was going to be. You are not suggesting that they were lying are you?"

          I dont think May was one of those who claimed it would be easy. She was a remainer. And she keeps interfering and keeping these negotiations going when we should have walked out ages ago.

          1. strum

            Re: @ hammarbtyp

            >the civil service forgot how to do anything.

            Nothing to do with the civil service. It's the politicians who created this mess, insisting on the impossible.

            1. codejunky Silver badge

              Re: @ hammarbtyp

              @ strum

              "Nothing to do with the civil service. It's the politicians who created this mess, insisting on the impossible."

              Go on amuse me. What is impossible? Leaving the EU is possible I dont think you would contest that? Running a country is achieved world wide by other governments/civil servants? Managing regulation is also achieved worldwide too.

              So go on almighty defeatist which bit is impossible for you?

              1. Brangdon Bronze badge

                Re: What is impossible?

                Leaving the EU is possible. Doing it smoothly in the timeframe available with the resources available isn't. It's a complex task.

                1. codejunky Silver badge

                  Re: What is impossible?

                  @ Brangdon

                  "Leaving the EU is possible. Doing it smoothly in the timeframe available with the resources available isn't. It's a complex task."

                  What is smooth? Leaving the EU requires change. How much change can occur when leaving a protectionist block and opening up to global trade?

                  Another issue of smooth is also influenced by the ongoing desire to remain against democratic decision and against the desired outcome. The negotiations should have been smooth, but then May stepped in and insisted on keeping the negotiations going even when the EU refuses to continue. How can that go smooth?

                  Leave is very possible. Smooth is difficult when self inflicted difficulty is applied.

      2. hammarbtyp Silver badge

        "Well, the civil service should have been working on this stuff since before the referendum. But Cameron didn't let them as he knew he was going to win."

        We voted to make the elephant fly, but the traitors who came before us refuse to tell us how to do it.

      3. John Smith 19 Gold badge
        IT Angle

        "But Cameron didn't let them as he knew he was going to win."

        And then David Davies decided there was no need to do anything so formal as y'know "impact assessments" because the departments would just be doing it, rather than assessing doing it.

        So no time has been allocated to sort out little details like

        a) Which of the 85 systems in one department have to be scrapped; which amended.

        b) Which systems are the most important? They might not be the biggest, but they may hurt the most people hardest if they are not ready to play. See a) if they need to be scrapped or re-written.

        c)Can you scope the changes for each system? To what extent are they "table driven," and there for configured by changing a config parameter file (assuming someone's kept a copy of the config file format).

        Not forgetting some of these systems were written in proprietary 4GL's for things like ICL mainframes in the 1970's and 80's and many of the people with those skills (never mind domain knowledge of the specific system itself) are retired or flat out dead.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: "But Cameron didn't let them as he knew he was going to win."

          Its not just government departments that have this task to do though. If you think about it, potentially every business process and IT system in the UK (and to a lesser extent the EU) will need reviewing to see if it fits in with the new legislative environment and that could then need upgrading/replacing. And the end-state requirements are still unknown.

    2. Rich 11 Silver badge

      For a bunch who say they're committed to implementing "the will of the people" they have a funny way of showing it.

      The entire sordid business only makes sense when you look at it in light of senior Tories only ever asking "What will be best for my party?" Never mind that they've now trapped themselves in an impossible situation with a talentless government and a reduced Parliamentary majority, facing opprobrium from the corner of the press which normally reserves its bile for the Labour party, the BBC and paedophiles, never mind that May will go down in history as the biggest blunderer since Neville Chamberlain's little 1938 jaunt to pick up a lunch menu to wave at a crowd, never mind that BoJo is manoeuvring for a job that will let him stroke his ego and give him access to a posher secretarial pool. The question has morphed slightly over the last three or four years to the more specific "How do I stop my party from imploding?", so ask yourself that whenever you hear a bunch of hard Brexiters moaning about backsliders, or Davis briefing against Hammond, or May spouting vapid platitudes at PMQs. Each of them thinks they have the answer, but they're all missing the obvious one, the one which they can never achieve and aren't even willing to try.

      1. John Smith 19 Gold badge
        Unhappy

        "an impossible situation with a talentless government and a reduced Parliamentary majority,"

        What majority?

        They have to call in the DUP if they want an absolute majority. Pre election they had an absolute majority.

        But then May seemed to have the first original idea she'd had in her entire life.

        This is what happens when you promote what's basically an ambitious coaster, who just does whatever their senior civil servants tell them, into the top job.

      2. GIRZiM

        Re: "What will be best for my party?"

        Actually, the entire sordid business only makes sense when you look at it in light of senior Tories only ever asking "What will be best for my career?" and realise that the only reason they care one single whit about their party is that, without one, they have no career at all - you can't be leader of 'nobody'. If any of them cared about their party, they wouldn't be constantly infighting. No, this nonsense about the Tories being good at pulling together is just that; nonsense - the Tories are as frequently at each other's throats as Labour, it's just that the press/Media are owned by the Tories and their customers, so of course that myth gets touted around all the time.

    3. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      "A competent government would've had teams of experts working on this sort of thing from 2016-06-24."

      Not just that. A competent government would have waited for those teams to report, understood the issues, have worked out how to deal with them and had the work sufficiently advanced so as to meet the target date before pulling the trigger, and, indeed, whether it would be a good idea to pull it. It's called planning.

      1. sebt27
        Facepalm

        "It's called planning."

        Planning!!! I unclog my nose in the general direction of your "planning". So 20th Century.

        Luckily we have a thrusting, up-to-date government, freed from hideously-outdated Waterfall dogmas, making glorious progress towards an Agile Brexit.

        The Minimum Viable Post-Brexit Britain they're developing will have the same geological structure as now, so don't worry. It'll still be an Isle, and still be Sceptred. The rest is just minor UX tweaks. Anyway, Brexiters still don't have a clue what they want, so why waste time planning for it?

        1. Mark 85 Silver badge

          "It's called planning."

          Planning!!! I unclog my nose in the general direction of your "planning". So 20th Century.

          Luckily we have a thrusting, up-to-date government, freed from hideously-outdated Waterfall dogmas, making glorious progress towards an Agile Brexit.

          Agile? So they have their stand up meetings and then go get something done? Can you send some of those folks versed in this to train our Congress here in the States to do this?

  4. I&I

    The will of the people was 50-50

    (near enough). Now is the time of “the will of the ministers”. Meanwhile, “nature has no mercy”. Launch that Challenger...

  5. Christoph Silver badge

    TL;DR: We're fucked.

  6. Teiwaz Silver badge

    Once it leaves, this protection is removed, and the controversial Investigatory Powers Act – which has been ruled unlawful under EU law – will be part of considerations on whether to grant an adequacy deal.

    Basically line-up a few fall-guys for D.P Minister (or whatever*) to catch the flack as poorly amended bill after lazily amended bill gets rammed through trying to amend RIPA hoping at some point the EU will marginally accept it.

    * or maybe not Home Office Minister seems to come with 'brass neck' in job description.

    1. Herring`

      lazily amended bill gets rammed through trying to amend RIPA hoping at some point the EU will marginally accept it.

      As a third country, the UK has far less leeway than it would as a member. National security exemptions are OK for EU members, not for 3rd countries.

      1. hammarbtyp Silver badge

        "As a third country, the UK has far less leeway than it would as a member. National security exemptions are OK for EU members, not for 3rd countries."

        Just as long as we are taking back control...

        1. phuzz Silver badge

          "Just as long as we are taking back control"

          Oh yes, we can aim straight at our own foot now, without that bloody EU getting in the way...

    2. John Smith 19 Gold badge
      Alien

      "Home Office Minister seems to come with 'brass neck' in job description."

      A common misconception.

      It's actually a by product of the brain parasite they get infected with when they get the job.*

      *How else do you explain the monotone line on pervasive state surveillance that the last 9 (10?) Home Secretaries have spouted?

  7. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    "the Privacy Shield deal, which allows transatlantic data flows and was set up after its predecessor Safe Harbor was struck down, was pushed through faster."

    And it's been on borrowed time from day one. Its life-span was always limited to how long it would take SuperMax to get from complaint to ECJ ruling.

  8. SVV Silver badge

    Data sharing agreements?

    From following the news over the past few months, my impression is that the cabinet is still incapable of even deciding which brewery the celebration piss up will be held in, let alone been able to start organising it.

    1. John Smith 19 Gold badge
      Unhappy

      my impression..the cabinet..incapable of..deciding..brewery the celebration piss up will be held in,

      And you would be correct.

      Although with the likes of Boris Johnson and Jakob Rees Mogg no doubt it will be somewhere with centuries of history and the serving staff will be superb.

    2. GIRZiM

      Re: Data sharing agreements?

      If you don't consider the selection and securing of a venue in which to hold a piss-up to be part of the process of organising said piss-up then may i suggest that you need to rethink your approach to event management?

POST COMMENT House rules

Not a member of The Register? Create a new account here.

  • Enter your comment

  • Add an icon

Anonymous cowards cannot choose their icon

Biting the hand that feeds IT © 1998–2020