back to article Amazon, LG Electronics turned my vape into an exploding bomb, says burned bloke in lawsuit

Amazon, LG Electronics and KMG-Imports are being sued by a man in the US State of Rhode Island for selling a vaping box and batteries that allegedly burst into flames and set him on fire. In a lawsuit filed last month in Rhode Island Superior Court in Providence County, and just shifted to US District Court for Rhode Island, …

  1. Steven Raith

    Batteries in the pocket, eh?

    £5 says they were loose in his pocket, with change and keys.

    Like they always are when shit like this happens.

    And like everyone was told not to do with batteries as a kid.

    Sigh.

    Steven R

    1. isogen74

      Re: Batteries in the pocket, eh?

      Well, the article did say he was wearing shorts ...

      1. Steven Raith

        Re: Batteries in the pocket, eh?

        And the lawsuit explicitly states that he put them in his pockets.

        Shorts can have pockets, too. Who says they can't?

        Steven "more of a jeans guy" R

        1. isogen74

          Re: Batteries in the pocket, eh?

          Shorts ... I.e. what happens when you put batteries in a pocket with loose change and keys ...

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Batteries in the pocket, eh?

          "And the lawsuit explicitly states that he put them in his pockets."

          Yes but inside the vape or not? If not then of what relevance to the case is the vape?!

    2. TheVogon Silver badge

      Re: Batteries in the pocket, eh?

      "Amount is likely to be substantial" says they were in the device. Presumably producing device and batteries would be expected in court.

      1. QuiteEvilGraham

        Re: Batteries in the pocket, eh?

        Hard to tell with a phrase like "jumped out of the car and attempted to remove the batteries from his pocket and extinguish the flames, resulting in burns to his hands.", No?

        Sounds like he is one of these arses who pays no attention whatsoever to basic battery safety. It's not as if there isn't TONS of information out there about this.

        Me, vaping on a device with coils I built myself (but not before paying lots of attention to the safety considerations).

        When I was young, about November, there used to be public information films about the dangers of putting bangers in your pockets. We seem to have embraced Darwinism a bit since then. Oh, that and an unapologetically sensationalist media.

        1. andyp-random-number

          Re: Batteries in the pocket, eh?

          you can't expect people to follow simple instructions for batteries. Batteries like all electronic kit is a pure black box, they have absolutely no idea, no comprehension. This stuff isn't taught it is just told once or twice in a leaflet as a passing comment to kids / adults.

          Our world is a black magic box to most people.

          Go into most peoples houses and you still find a plug with loose wires or a tangle of mains cables.

          Products should be fit for idiots to use. Fit for purpose means a dumb thick illiterate tosspot who watches day time TV should be able to pick it up and use it without getting burnt. Just because they don't care what they are buying doesn't mean they should spend 3 days in intensive care.

          1. pɹɐʍoɔ snoɯʎuouɐ
            Coat

            Re: Batteries in the pocket, eh?

            "Products should be fit for idiots to "

            the most common underestimation made in the design sector of any product is the ingenuity of idiots.

            The first person to make and patent "a genuine foolproof {enter widget name here}" will be a very rich person...

            Mines the one thats already been checked for batteries !!

            1. Blank Reg

              Re: Batteries in the pocket, eh?

              @pɹɐʍoɔ snoɯʎuouɐ

              Nothing is fool-proof as they keep making "better" fools

              1. Message From A Self-Destructing Turnip

                Re: Batteries in the pocket, eh?

                Umm... The unprotected LG HG2 18650 3000mAh batteries in question are rated for 20A continuous discharge,two cells at 3.6V will max out at 144W,the Pioneer4you's iPV5 200W TC Box Mod is alleged to be rated to 200W. It would seem that malado should have been using lower capacity cells rated to 30A. Unless Pioneer4you neglected to detail this requirement in the user literature, it would seem malado now has lawyers fees to add to his pain. Curiously Pioneer4you web site does not list the iPV5 model, though a peruse of their user literature for other high powered models indicates that they neglect to advise of any requirement for battery discharge capacity....

            2. Omgwtfbbqtime Silver badge
              Facepalm

              "The first person to make and patent "a genuine foolproof {enter widget name here}" ...

              will be responsible for the creation of a better class of fool.

              It's a race to the bottom folks!

            3. Lotaresco

              Re: Batteries in the pocket, eh?

              "the most common underestimation made in the design sector of any product is the ingenuity of idiots."

              It has been this way probably for as long as Hom. sap. have existed. Two notable SciFi works pointed to this, Cyril M. Kornbluth in 1951 in his novella "The Marching Morons" that described a near future society in which the few "intellectuals" are working themselves to death to stop the morons from harming themselves. H Beam Piper's "Day of the Moron" covers the same ground but from the point of view of a nuclear power station operated by people who will push buttons "just to see what happens". Also written in 1951 which makes me a suspect that some editor sent out a request for stories on a theme. The latter book was prophetic given that it was written 35 years before Chernobyl.

          2. Brandon 2

            Re: Batteries in the pocket, eh?

            As soon as you design an idiot proof {insert widget here}, nature will give you a bigger idiot. I tend to go the opposite, more "evolutionarily sound" way, that people are generally responsible for the dumb crap they do, especially when warned.

    3. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Devil

      Re: Batteries in the pocket, eh?

      it's a fair bet that a LiPo or LiIon battery that bursts into flames was SHORTED OUT ELECTRICALLY.

      They do have a very low internal resistance with a full charge, so even a small one could balloon up and catch fire within seconds if you short it.

      I once accidentally shorted one when I plugged a battery into a device I'd modified slightly (added something to it as part of testing) and it had a small solder bridge that I didn't catch after modifying it, which shorted out the battery, and when I plugged it in it swelled up like a balloon and got VERY hot. I unplugged it quickly and soaked it with water to prevent flames. It suddenly shrank back down but was completely worthless after that [would not hold a charge at all].

      So yes, it is VERY likely that keys+change+whatever in the guy's pocket caused a short circuit, causing flames etc. but then he LIES about it and says the batteries were IN THE DEVICE and he burned himself NOT grabbing flamin batteries out of his pocket, but trying to REMOVE bateries from the device. OK I would've thrown the device on the ground, with the batteries inside, hoping to save body parts instead of something that can be replaced, and I think MOST sane people would, too.

      So yeah probably some B.S. in the guy's story, which does NOT help his lawsuit. If _ANY_ of his claims are bogus, the entire thing will be thrown out of court by any reasonable judge.

      but, IANAL and juries are often COLLECTIVELY STUPID and *FEEL* instead of THINK.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Batteries in the pocket, eh?

        which shorted out the battery, and when I plugged it in it swelled up like a balloon and got VERY hot. I unplugged it quickly and soaked it with water to prevent flames. It suddenly shrank back down but was completely worthless after that [would not hold a charge at all].

        @bombastic bob

        Water is useless to be honest (and electrically conductive to boot). With these batteries you'd be better off with a bag of sand.

    4. Prst. V.Jeltz Silver badge

      Re: Batteries in the pocket, eh?

      "were used with Pioneer4you's iPV5 200W TC Box Mod vaping device"

      So its a "moddable" one then? All da kidz is modding their vapes innit.

      I have no idea why.

      1. Steven Raith

        Re: Batteries in the pocket, eh?

        The 'box mod' name is a hangover from when people used to have to make their own devices to power self-built atomisers that required more power than what simple batteries available at the time could provide (typically under 15w).

        'Box mod' has just become an industry term for them - really, what you're thinking of is a 'series box' or similar unregulated device, which is a far more serious bit of kit.

        As for the two cells, 200w, there's a lot of pissing about used to get 200w out of a 2-cell device, but it's not a case of it draws straight from the cells - it uses various stepup/step down techniques, at restricted ohmages, to reach that level of power.

        Again, there's millions of devices out there, and very few failures (and even fewer catastrophic device failures - almost all are loose cells in the pocket type affairs).

        There's a load of electronics shenanigans that are a bit above my level of expertise to answer on the subject of 200w devices with two cells, but there are a few explanations on the internet as to how it's acheived safely - such as not letting the device provide that much power once the cells get below 4v (it'll restrict you to 150, then 100, etc as the voltage drops).

        Steven R

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Health Hazard?

    Seems a knock-on effect in more ways than one. I have to say that I have no sympathy for folk who ingest strange, unnatural substances (and vaping has not been proven to be non-hazardous - quite the reverse, in fact) and seemingly expect to stay safe. If this particular person did not have the foul habit that he has, then the incident would not have occurred.

    1. Steven Raith

      Re: Health Hazard?

      Sigh, it's quite sad in this day and age that I have to explain this to someone who should ostensibly have an interest in technology.

      No-one claims e-cigs are completely safe or entirely non-hazardous, as nothing is, period - they are drastically safer and massively less hazardous than smoking - a habit which 99.5% of regular e-cig users were partaking of before trying e-cigs, either full time or experimentally. Literally almost no-one, proportionally, who uses e-cigs regularly (ie daily, habitually) is a previous non-smoker. We're talking <1% across the board, and <0.5% in most cases, in all age groups.

      This means that almost everyone who uses an e-cig is getting a massive reduction in harm to themselves and those around them.

      Saying e-cigs aren't entirely safe is like arguing that a car seatbelt might strange you in a crash - insomuch as it's completely missing the point and shows you to be an uninformed, puritanical moron who clearly doesn't even have the simplest grasp of the concepts involved in the subject matter.

      Steven "Has read the science - almost all of it, thanks sci-hub - in case you were wondering" R

      1. shedied
        Pint

        Re: Health Hazard?

        Steven, no stress. I should be giving him the WHOOSH sign, but I have run out of them; I also wanted to point out that it was the batteries and not the vape device -- not the unfortunate chap's smoking, mind --that made this an item in the first place.

        Now I implore you to press PAUSE here for a moment.

        If the vic rode on a ride share car e.g Uber, you would probably have to explain the same point to a more unfortunate dumbass with a similar view, and how the ride share is not the point here. You'd have a fulltime job.

        Don't waste any more time--heck no reply needed. Go get a real pint.

      2. bombastic bob Silver badge
        Devil

        Re: Health Hazard?

        "massively less hazardous irritating to everbody ELSE than smoking"

        fixed

        [I care NOT what people do to themselves. That's THEIR business. What _I_ care about is HAVING TO BREATHE THEIR DIETY CONDEMNED FEELING *EXHAUST*, because their SOCIOPATHIC DISCOURTESY and SELF-CENTERED "NEEDS" takes precedence and priority over EVERYBODY ELSE, in particular ME, whether or not anyone ELSE is affected by that damnable CIGARETTE EXHAUST because of a medical condition, like asthma or other allergic reactions, or if it's just simply irritating, or both. I mean, My "NOT Smoking" isn't bothering anyone, now is it? And self-imposed addictions should NEVER be prioritized over EVERYONE ELSE's comfort, health, etc.. Ok done now.]

        1. Steven Raith

          Re: Health Hazard?

          " I mean, My "NOT Smoking" isn't bothering anyone, now is it? "

          I dunno, you're annoying me with your mewling.

          Sit down, boy, the grown ups are talking.

          Steven R

          1. bombastic bob Silver badge
            Thumb Down

            Re: Health Hazard?

            @Steven Raith

            "I dunno, you're annoying me with your [whatever]"

            You're probably a SMOKER, right? Tit for tat. And assuming you're a smoker, enjoy your cancer/COPD.

            And don't smoke in the presence of others. You can do whatever you want to YOURSELF.

            Or take up vaping, which isn't such an irritant to everyone around you [or just QUIT the toxic exhausting into EVERYBODY ELSE'S AIR]. Vape 'vapors' smell kinda like air freshener, if anything at all, and [from the studies I've read, and my own personal observation] doesn't cause people to have adverse reactions [at least to the best of my knowledge].

            Public smoking is a PUBLIC NUISANCE and should be banned and heavily fined for violations. But if you want to vape, have at it. The actual dangers (and irritation) of doing so, ESPECIALLY to everyone else around you, is practically non-existent.

            1. Alister Silver badge

              Re: Health Hazard?

              Bob,

              do you want to ban open fires and diesel cars as well? They are much more hazardous to your health than secondary tobacco smoke.

              1. Omgwtfbbqtime Silver badge
                Flame

                Re: Health Hazard?

                You will have to pry my open fire out of my cold dead hands...

                Wait... what?

        2. Anonymous South African Coward Silver badge

          Re: Health Hazard?

          @bombastic bob : wear a T-shirt that says :

          "If you don't smoke, I won't fart".

        3. ashton

          Re: Health Hazard?

          What i do care is dumb communists spreading their bullshit online ;/

          I feel like your internet access should be regulated, preferably removed, for the good of humanity.

          Fortunately it doesn't work that way. Just like i can't infringe on your freedom to acces internet, you can't infringe on my freedom to slowly kill myself inhaling nicotine.

          If life and world really bothers you that much i recommended a safe, padded room where you won't be endangered by anything.

      3. Prst. V.Jeltz Silver badge

        Re: Health Hazard?

        No-one claims e-cigs are completely safe or entirely non-hazardous, as nothing is, period - they are drastically safer and massively less hazardous than smoking - a habit which 99.5% of regular e-cig users were partaking of before trying e-cigs, either full time or experimentally. Literally almost no-one, proportionally, who uses e-cigs regularly (ie daily, habitually) is a previous non-smoker. We're talking <1% across the board, and <0.5% in most cases, in all age groups.

        I beg to differ . When they said "all the pretty lights , and colorful gizmos , and fruity flavors will encourage kids who never smoked to try vaping , i thought "Bullshit what kind of kid would be that stupid?" It turns out - a large cross section of them. My step 15 year old , and all his mates are all at it. Most do the no nicotine oils and are just concerned with blowing smoke to look cool , and modding their kit in the hopes of burning their balls off one day. Some of them are even stupid enough to start vaping the nicotine oils (niccy they call it) rationalizing it by "so what if i get addicted - its not harmful now its not in a real cig)

        Oh yes its a thing - just check youtube for modders , enthusiasts , "Trick shots smoke blowers" . You will have to have an immunity to dub-step to research that though.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Health Hazard?

          " My step 15 year old , and all his mates are all at it. Most do the no nicotine oils and are just concerned with blowing smoke to look cool "

          Do you not think they would be doing it with real cigarettes? Guess what, they would.

          Yes it's crappy they do, but "better" than proper cigarettes.

      4. IsJustabloke Silver badge
        Trollface

        Re: Health Hazard?

        "This means that almost everyone who uses an e-cig is getting a massive reduction in harm to themselves and those around them."

        but a massive uplift in looking stupid ... the big old boxes like the one in this article really do look utterly stupid when you see someone taking a tonk on them. A couple of my friends use e-cigs that look exactly like cigarettes, they don't look so bad.

        As an aside, does anyone think there are many more people vaping than you ever saw smoking? Perhaps it's because using one of those is considered more socially acceptable when walking down the street?

    2. David Webb

      Re: Health Hazard?

      We ingest a lot of hazardous stuff daily, for instance, water. There is the sad case of a poor individual who accidentally (no idea how) swallowed a tiny bit of bleach or something. The medical advice given "drink plenty of water" which the person did, they drank so much water they died.

      In this case, as in with most cases like this, it's a simple case of RTFM. Don't buy cheap batteries which may be fake from a 3rd party, don't put objects which are known to be slightly explosive into your pocket with the sort of things that can make them explode (coins, keys), never put them into trouser/short pockets if you're going to be sitting down. Odds are he hadn't even turned the device off when it was in his pocket.

      I've been happily vaping for 3 - 4 years now, and the number of explosions? None. Number of fires? None. Odds of me having a heart attack? Reduced by 50% Number of sausages eaten? Not enough.

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: Health Hazard?

        Not to mention the drug "known to the state of California to cause cancer" that so many of el'reg readers drink to excess

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Health Hazard?

      its each persons responsibility to decide what they want to ingest. The information is out there for what ts safe and what's not. While there appears to be some reports that vape can be harmful, Its not as harmful as cigarettes,although the smell is just as offensive.

      It anoys me when I have to walk past a pub that the door opens direct onto the street and threes a half dozen or more people vapeing and smoking, standing all across the pavement. Getting past means walking through a cloud of noxious fumes. its then not my choice to be intoxicated by these clouds of christ knows what.

      the thing is, I know I am not allergic to penicillin so if I have a minor injury that looks a little too red around the edges, I should be able to go the pharmacy and buy some Amoxicillin over the counter.

      1. 404 Silver badge
        Pint

        Re: Health Hazard?

        Folks like you annoy me - tax the fuck out of them, kick them out into the weather, and STILL bitch about smokers... I quit after 35 years of a two pack a day Camel Filter habit, I follow smoking protocols with my vaping, and don't bother anyone who matters (One of my cats is an antismoking nazi, does_not_care about my vape vapor, this says a lot - he matters lol).

        How about this? Quit being so judgmental about other folks' business and have a beer, you'll be happier for it.

      2. David Webb

        Re: Health Hazard?

        the thing is, I know I am not allergic to penicillin so if I have a minor injury that looks a little too red around the edges, I should be able to go the pharmacy and buy some Amoxicillin over the counter.

        There are countries where you can do that, you can go and buy antibiotics over the counter so they are not controlled. Oddly enough, these countries are fast developing diseases which are now getting to the point where they cannot be treated with antibiotics because people who have an injury that looks a little too red around the edges downed some antibiotics. Poor guy had unprotected sex in one of these countries, guess which disease (which we treat with antibiotics) he caught.

      3. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

        Re: Health Hazard?

        "the thing is, I know I am not allergic to penicillin so if I have a minor injury that looks a little too red around the edges, I should be able to go the pharmacy and buy some Amoxicillin over the counter."

        Take too much and it will kill you.

        1. Cuddles Silver badge

          Re: Health Hazard?

          "Take too much and it will kill you."

          I'm considering starting a campaign to make this a mandatory warning label that will go on everything.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Health Hazard?

          And how do YOU know if the bacteria is Gram + or Gram -.

          Your amoxicillin might do fuck all other than make bacteria more resistant.

        3. Alistair Silver badge

          Re: Health Hazard?

          "the thing is, I know I am not allergic to penicillin so if I have a minor injury that looks a little too red around the edges, I should be able to go the pharmacy and buy some Amoxicillin over the counter."

          Take too much and it will kill you.

          Don't take it for a long enough period of time or take too low a dose, and breed a brand new resistant bacterial infection that will evolve into the bug that takes down society.

      4. FIA

        Re: Health Hazard?

        It anoys me when I have to walk past a pub that the door opens direct onto the street and threes a half dozen or more people vapeing and smoking, standing all across the pavement. Getting past means walking through a cloud of noxious fumes. its then not my choice to be intoxicated by these clouds of christ knows what.

        1. Hold your breath

        2. Cross the street

        3. Learn to effectively rate the risks of things.

        the thing is, I know I am not allergic to penicillin so if I have a minor injury that looks a little too red around the edges, I should be able to go the pharmacy and buy some Amoxicillin over the counter.

        Nope.

        1. Lee D Silver badge

          Re: Health Hazard?

          I don't care about the risks - I imagine it won't be long before we discover that vaping is just as dangerous, especially if you're just buying random oils off websites and burning them into your lungs. Yep, open fires etc. are just as toxic but I breathe significantly near an open-fire about once a year, whereas smokers and vapers want to shove it down your throat everywhere you go. Risk = exposure x substance type.

          But I have the same problem with e-cigs as with cigs - they stink. They make YOU stink. That stink follows you on your clothes, hair, and everything you touch. And you often become immune to it and can't tell. Never sold anything on eBay and marked it as "from a smoke-free home"? Because LITERALLY anything can stink like a smoker if it's around them long enough. Obviously things like kiddies soft toys but all sorts of other stuff - and then you need to give that to grandma or whatever as a present.

          Smokers become immune to their own stink. Non-smokers can literally tell if you've had a smoke in the past week because you still carry the stink on you. I've had any number of smokers try to put one over on me saying they hadn't had a quick one, and you can out-smell them every time. Vapers are no different in this regard.

          I was on a date once, in the garden of a crowded London pub. Some guy literally DOZENS of tables away was smoking some apple-flavoured junk. Literally, the clouds OBSCURED entire people, they were that solid, big and wide, and came every 10-15 seconds. People were trying to eat. People were trying to talk. And this idiot kept on doing it, even when people moaned and moved tables.

          I imagine everyone went home that day stinking of apple, god knows what the guy himself smelled like.

          It's got nothing to do with your risk, I literally don't care if you die. I won't be close enough to be at risk while you're smoking it. But you will stink for the rest of the day/week and that's no less obnoxious than going to the gym, not showering, and then coming into the office and getting close to everyone (yes, have advised people in martial arts clubs etc. to go and shower first because it's just rude to come in stinking like that when people have to be in close contact with you).

          It's "dangerous", sure, but that can be mitigated. It's the anti-social aspect that matters more. And that carries over from smoking to vaping.

          Not to mention, I find the paraphernalia, messing about, distraction while you're talking to someone, a grown adult sucking on something like a baby, "building" the vapes in the first place, the noises associated with it, discussions about wattage and coils and whatever else, and the overall dependence of an adult on some sucky-toy to be just as annoying.

          And I grew up in a house with a 40-a-day smoker, so I'm pretty immune to most of the effects by now. (Though my girlfriend could always tell when I'd been to my parents, even if they hadn't smoked while I was there...)

          1. 2Nick3 Bronze badge

            Re: Health Hazard?

            Lee D said: "It's the anti-social aspect that matters more. And that carries over from smoking to vaping."

            Perfectly stated - My rights end where yours start. Yours end where mine start. Pretty simple, right?

            Smokers/vapers don't want to be told they can't continue to do so. Fine and dandy. But that also means they can't force me to smoke/vape. Which by creating a cloud outside of a door is what is happening.

  3. Steven Raith

    Read the suit....

    ....or at least as much of it as I could without laughing my arse off.

    Apparently, the lawyers client has convinced the lawyer to argue to that LG should have reasonably expected HG2 18650 cells to explode and warned clients as such.

    This is the HG2 of which there are tens of millions in circulation, and dozens of incidents in the last decade of any 18650 related fires, never mind e-cig related ones.

    In the last ten years.

    Almost all of which are attributable to user-error-instigated short circuits (IE putting loose cells in a pocket or bag with loose metal - such as keys or coins).

    So I'm now more of the case that it's the lawyer who has got a decent retainer up front, and is now going through the motions, because they don't have a hope in hell of winning anything other than some temporary publicity.

    Either that or, less likely, the lawyer is going probono and doesn't realise just how badly they've just screwed themselves over.

    Either way, the lawsuit all appears to be about the distributor, reseller and manufacturer taking responsibility - there's nothing in there about the end user actually having even the most basic battery safety knowledge. And I don't just mean specialist cells, the same shit applies to AAs, too....

    Steven "paid attention in primary school science lessons" R

    1. K Silver badge
      Pint

      Re: Read the suit....

      For quality sarcasm, educating the ignorant and giving a "nailed it" summary.. have an up vote and a beer!

      1. Steven Raith

        Re: Read the suit....

        Why thank you very much my good fellow commentard.

        If you skip through my post history, you'll see I've done this a *lot* on here ;-)

        Steven "Knows his stuff when it comes to e-cigs" R

        1. 404 Silver badge

          Re: Read the suit....

          Hang out in r/electronic_cigarette by any chance?

          Bring Mooch* in here to stifle the battery commentards? lol

          *Legendary Reddit Battery Guy

          1. Steven Raith

            Re: Read the suit....

            I've never been on reddit deliberately. I'm mostly a twittard for this stuff.

            Steven @Raithtech_uk

            1. 404 Silver badge

              Re: Read the suit....

              heh - I joined for a specific purpose, now lost... Good folks in r/ electronic_cigarette - it's not your usual Reddit sub like /politics /news /OMGTRUMPGONNAKILLUSALL subs.

              It's a stable tech focused vaping forum. Shitposting kept at a minimum.

              Oh yeah, you got a new follower - I'm everywhere and nowhere DC&H Consultants @justahobbit

              1. Steven Raith

                Re: Read the suit....

                "Shitposting kept at a minimum."

                Well, that's totally put me off!

                Spotted that follow, did wonder - don't worry, you'll regret it pretty soon I'd imagine ;-)

                Steven R

                1. 404 Silver badge

                  Re: Read the suit....

                  And no followback? Death to the Infidel! Total defilement of Twitter Canon...

                  Handchecks? (ugh) r/vaping101

                  You want shitposting? That would be the sister sub r/Vapistan - if you can handle it >;)

                  1. Steven Raith

                    Re: Read the suit....

                    Reciprocal follow circilejerk completed!

                    I prefer my shistposting to be constructive. It's quite enjoyable destroying the editor of BMJ TC (not a tobacco control journal, more a comic book for people who can't draw) and then following it up with a suitable GIF.

                    Gotta have some style with this shit, y'know?

                    Steven "The Shitposting Time Cat is my God" R

    2. Aitor 1

      Re: Read the suit....

      There was a case of a tyre repaired several dozen times, some of them incorrectly, over age and rethreaded.

      Tyre exploded.. there was a trial in the usa and the manufacturer was found guilty!!

    3. Peter2 Silver badge

      Re: Read the suit....

      Apparently, the lawyers client has convinced the lawyer to argue to that LG should have reasonably expected HG2 18650 cells to explode and warned clients as such.

      Except they actually do, but nobody ever reads the MSDS.

      http://www.produktinfo.conrad.com/datenblaetter/1200000-1299999/001209846-si-01-en-HP_PAVILION_17_F012NG_NOTEBOOK_17_3_SI.pdf

      3. HAZARDS IDENTIFICATION

      For the battery cell, chemical materials are stored in a hermetically sealed metal case, designed to withstand temperatures and pressures encountered during normal use. As a result, during normal use, there is no physical danger of ignition or explosion and chemical danger of hazardous

      materials' leakage.

      However, if exposed to a fire, added mechanical shocks, decomposed, added electric stress by miss-use, the gas release vent will be operated. The battery cell case will be breached at the ex

      treme, hazardous materials may be released. Moreover, if heated strongly by the surrounding fire, acrid gas may be emitted.

      And this battery was breached by added electric stress by miss-use, as explained in the article. You might have missed it, because it simply said 200W vape. Think about that for a moment.

      Assuming the 3.7 volt batteries were used as a pair to get to 7.4 volts, then my high school electrics training says that watts divided by volts gives you amps, 200 / 7.4 = 27.02 amps. If I am drawing 27 amps from a 30 amp circuit then personally, i'm getting worried about tripping the breaker and am considering some rewiring. A high discharge 18650 battery cell is rated at 10 amps, for general reference.

      Anybody else see a problem with drawing 27 amps from a battery rated with absolute maximum of 10 amps, with a well known tendancy to explode when seriously abused? In short, LG are completely innocent. The prat who designed or modded this however, is not.

      1. Steven Raith

        Re: Read the suit....

        The slight issue here, as I understand it, is that 20a/3.7v is the rated specification, but the tested specification by users, electronics engineers in the scene etc is 30A pulse without any problems with excessive temperatures, and at 4.2v fresh charge - this is pretty standard.

        So, 8.4 x 30 =252w theoretical max.

        There's a reason why there are so many 200W 2-cell devices out there, and a distinct lack of explosions all over the place. The devices themselves will measure internal device temp (picking up heat soak from the cells) vdrop as the battery gets stressed, and won't fire at those power levels if the cells can't keep up; if it's asking for 4.1v from each of hte cells, and it's only getting 3.9, it'll force the device to a lower power level.

        Bear in mind that almost all quality cells will pulse at a solid 33% of their constant discharge rating. And pulse discharge is pretty much exclusively how high power e-cigs work

        I'll admit I prefer 3-cell mods for that sort of power though....if for no other reason than that the cells tend to last longer, in terms of real usage, and charge cycles.

        Steven R.

  4. Jay Lenovo Silver badge
    Flame

    Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

    For the legal community...

    LG has responded and filed a motion to have the case thrown out.

    They are arguing that the the rule of "mendacem facimus ignis anhelat", easily discredits the plaintiff and all accusations of wrong-doing.

    1. Steven Raith

      Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

      Interesting, interesting - got linky, my good chum?

      Steven "no, really" R

      1. Jay Lenovo Silver badge

        Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

        Still, I like your argument better Steven

        1. Steven Raith

          Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

          My argument doesn't get me £300/hr though, does it now?

          Wait, does it?

          No.

          But really, if you've got a link to LGs counter suit, I'd be interested to read it - always good to see how large corporations term the phrase 'are you a complete fucking moron, mate?' and couch it in nice, dry legalese....

          Steven R

    2. TheVogon Silver badge

      Re: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire

      Or alternatively, "Stultus est sicut stultus facit"

  5. Chronos Silver badge

    Smoking

    ....filthy habit... ...own fault... ...addiction... ...not harmless... ...chemicals... blah, blah, blah.

    Do, please, fornicate elsewhere.

    a) This was most likely a generic 18650 in an HG2 frock pushed over its limit. Counterfeiting 18650 cells is trivial except for Sony VTCx cells which have the cell designator and batch number laser etched into the casing, If you know what you're looking for (top insulator, vent cap support shape, crimp style, charge/discharge curve) you can spot a fake but it takes experience.

    b) It was in an e-cig. Big, fat, hairy deal. Not relevant.

    c) Those of us who, either due to peer pressure or gullibility, got lured into the smoking game as kids really do appreciate the escape route. Every morning I wake up without having to unload the previous day's 40 roll-ups worth of gunk off my lungs is testament to how much cleaner vaping is. It's called harm reduction. Look it up sometime if you can find any books after you've shamed all the libraries into closing down because some kid had his asthma triggered by book dust.

    But, most importantly, vaping is not smoking.

  6. Unicornpiss Silver badge

    Modded?

    " It was in an e-cig. Big, fat, hairy deal. Not relevant."

    Hard to say... if the batteries were installed in an unmodified eCig device, I think he may have a case, or at least a chance at a settlement.

    If the batteries were loose in his pocket with keys, etc., then he's a dumbass.

    If he had modified his vaping device to be "sub ohm" for faster response and more vapor, you're basically placing a direct short for all intents and purposes on the batteries, and even a lousy 9V alkaline can get hot enough to possibly burn you in that case.

    I suspect that if the batteries were installed in his device, that it got turned on or the button depressed for some time, which would definitely overheat the batteries pretty quickly.

    1. Rabbit80

      Re: Modded?

      According to the article, it was a 200W ecig - so would naturally support sub-ohm.

      My bet is they were fake batteries and he didn't turn the thing off.. button pressed in his pocket until the magic smoke and flame escaped. Maybe Amazon might bear some responsibility for selling fake batteries?

      1. MachDiamond Silver badge

        Re: Modded?

        "Maybe Amazon might bear some responsibility for selling fake batteries?"

        They haven't been busted yet. There is so much counterfeit stuff on Amazon that I stopped buying from them years ago.

        1. Aladdin Sane Silver badge

          Re: Modded?

          I doubt they were sold by Amazon, probably sold through Amazon.

  7. anthonyhegedus Silver badge

    I saw the 200W bit, are these devices really 200W? Those batteries would be under tremendous strain... for not very long.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      As I recall, that's precisely WHY they're such fire risks.

      1. Steven Raith

        Edit: I'm replying to AC, not 404, who has taken a similar tack in a slightly different direction to me ;-)

        That's not *strictly* true - I've run multiple >200w devices (at greater than 200w, too...) and providing the batteries are even reasonably good quality, it's not so much of an issue because:

        A: You can't inhale at >150w for more than couple of seconds (you don't have the lung capacity to match the vapour production for that long, it's that simple)

        B: Most reasonable quality batteries can easily sustain that level of current as a pulse (IE under a few seconds, not a few minutes) without breaking a sweat.

        Now, it's *possible* to run at 200w for more than that, if you're not using the device (IE accidental pocket press) but what tends to happen is that within a few seconds, the coils heat up so much (due to lack of airflow and wicking) that they break, and break the circuit.

        Regulated devices also tend to have thermal detection on the board - if you run the device too hot (the cells will tend to sink any heat into the device) it'll refuse to trigger, full stop, till it's cooled down internally or you swap to nice, fresh, cool cells.

        Of course, none of this quite the same with mechanical mods, (which are literally a switch, a coil/wick and a cell or two) or unregulated box mods (as a mech, but with some MOSTFETS and simple discrete compenentry to manage series/parallel, perhaps a POT to dial up/down power - nothing fancier than that though), but those are really quite specialist, and most users of mechs tend to be pretty switched on to battery safety, not letting them short out, etc.

        Of course, not all of them do, so a minority of reported e-cig incidents involve mechanical mods that have failed in some way (pocket press, far too low ohmage coils, etc) but the vast, vast majority of these incidents are quite literally.

        Someone buys some cells,

        Someone puts them in their pocket with small change and house keys

        Nature takes it course and attempts to seriously re-educate you.

        There's some more nuance and detail involved (as with all these things - hopefully I've included enough info to clear a few misconceptions up at least, the rest, feel free to have a bit of a deep dive yerself, you're on a tech site, you're perfectly capable!) but basically, regulated devices are very, very reliable if looked after. That's why incidents like this make the headlines; despite hundreds of millions of these devices being out there, and cells too, fires from them are very rare indeed because 99.99999% of users are aware of basic battery safety that their parents and primary school drilled into them at a young age...

        Steven R

    2. 404 Silver badge

      The good mods, yes. 200watts is average now days - usually in a two 18650 battery configuration and in reality, only hit 177watts depending on coil configuration. There is a whole industry dedicated to vaping with competing chipsets like Evolv's DNA series (the current standard top of the line), YiHi, Gene, etc, etc, and VandyVape just came out with a new chipset after much much controversy in the community (jury still out on quality of VV's chip). Battery cycles are generally gentle, with the mod cutting out when voltage reaches 3.5V before requiring a recharge. Note: It's best practice to charge your batteries on an external charger at 2A or less. Most mod chipsets don't balance well (again DNA chipset is King and does everything well, even has Escribe software to mess with the settings) and plugging a USB cable into the mini port wears them out until they break. On my current mod, an Hotcig RSQ single 18650 80watt bottom feed mod, I'll get around 250-300 puffs with temperature control 500F SS at 48 watts on a single staggered fused clapton coil Hcigar Maze v3 RDA before needing a battery change.

      K, that being said, the best way to blow yourself up is with an unregulated mod - UNLESS YOU KNOW WTF YOU'RE DOING AND HAVE MEMORIZED (or have it tattooed somewhere on your body for instant reference) OHM'S LAW! I relatively know what I'm doing, yet won't touch an unregulated mod with a ten foot pole because I only need to screw up once for lasting injuries. Regulated mods fail due to hardware, flooding with juice, or junk/fake batteries - much much safer, I like my face/teeth ;)

      So, knowing all this leads me to believe this guy is in contention for a Darwin Award, methodology still in paper napkin stages.

      1. Peter2 Silver badge

        This interested me enough to look into it for a few minutes. A forum post said that the safe limit is 20 amps. Unless your using higher spec batteries than I can find spec sheets for, the max discharge is in fact 10amps. This battery design is tested in an overload situation to not catch fire or explode at 250% of the rated capacity, which would be 25 amps. The one in the story that did explode was discharged at 200w / 7.4v = 27 amps.

        200watts is average now days - usually in a two 18650 battery configuration and in reality, only hit 177watts depending on coil configuration.

        2x 3.7V = 7.4V.

        177w / 7.4v = 23.91Amps

        14 amps over the design limit for the battery, but 2 amps under what the battery design was <u>designed</u> not to explode under.

        On my current mod, an Hotcig RSQ single 18650 80watt bottom feed mod, I'll get around 250-300 puffs with temperature control 500F SS at 48 watts

        80 / 3.7v = 21 amps.

        48 / 3.7 = 12.9 amps.

        From what you've said above about your mods it would appear that the vaping community is very considerably exceeding the safe design limits of the battery and relying on the engineering of the battery being sufficent to prevent an explosion for safety, despite exeeeding the safe design limits of the battery. I'm not completely convinced that this is safe and i'm pretty sure that selling devices this unsafe is outright illegal.

        1. 404 Silver badge

          Here buddy:

          https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/blog-entry/moochs-recommended-batteries.7593/#subs

          This is what I go by.

          1. Peter2 Silver badge

            Picking the first high power 18650 on the list (Samsung 25R) the chart you linked to says Mfr=20A, which one assumes is Manufacturer approved discharge = 20Amps.

            Having a general distrust of secondary sources beyond quick reference charts to find primary sources, I promptly looked up the info sheet of the battery. (http://dalincom.ru/datasheet/SAMSUNG%20INR18650-25R.pdf)

            7.4 Standard rated discharge capacity

            The standard rated discharge is the discharge capacity of the cell, which is measured with discharge current of 10A

            3.1 Discharging

            3.1.1 The cell shall be discharged continuously at less than maximum discharge current specified in the product specification.

            Which is a perfect illustration of why you shouldn't trust secondary sources for anything important. A cursory check of one of the others shows the same story, 10A rated discharge, with the apparent rating of the battery being that the discharge he's drawing from the battery appears to be above the manufacturers specification but below the point that the batteries consistently explode at during initial product testing.

            Personally, I don't think that this is sensible or responsible and I would encourage you to read the info & MSDS sheets of the products that your using to ensure that you aren't endangering yourself. At present, from my knowledge, training and experience I would say that these mods are dangerously unsafe and the only thing stopping them from exploding is the safety margin built into the battery, which in cases it appears that he is perilously close to the edge of.

            If you were to use your vaping thing at it's full power output then chances are that it will blow up on you one day because your about 10% away from the manufacturer saying "this will probably explode". On the reduced output you mentioned above it's safer (in the "this probably won't explode" area) but still exceeding the safe specification (ie, "this definitely won't explode") issued by the manufacturer.

    3. rmason Silver badge

      They use PWM, so it's not true 200W, but it will still be 150-160w+

      But yes, it's the current trend and a bit daft.

      PWM - pulse width modulation.

  8. MachDiamond Silver badge

    Device, not the battery

    Li chemistry batteries are very power dense and have to be handled accordingly. They shouldn't be overcharged or over-discharged and regulated so they they aren't being asked to supply more power than they are capable of delivering.

    Most cheap Chinese electronic junk isn't built with proper battery protection. It is entirely possible that the vaping unit sucked the battery below it's minimum voltage and past its maximum current one too many times. You get what you pay for. Next time, buy an 18650 cell with built in protection.

    1. Steven Raith

      Re: Device, not the battery

      Except protected cells are invariably low power, and it's damned near impossible to get a regulated mod that doesn't have reverse battery protection and under voltage/overvoltage protection.

      I really wish people would stop just assuming 'cheap chinese junk' when the devices they've used to make that comment were probably made in china too.

      It's not cheap chinese junk - it's almost always a stupid user putting loose cells in his pocket.

      It's almost never the device, not the battery, that's the problem.

      1. The Oncoming Scorn Silver badge
        Mushroom

        Re: Device, not the battery

        From my offshore survival training experience, the instructors for fire safety demonstrated "spontaneous combustion" with a plastic shopping bag, some wire wool\Brillow pads & a 9V battery.

      2. Charles 9 Silver badge

        Re: Device, not the battery

        "It's almost never the device, not the battery, that's the problem."

        Please clarify. If it's neither the device, nor the battery that's the problem, what specifically IS the problem?

        1. MachDiamond Silver badge

          Re: Device, not the battery

          Sorry, it's usually the device. It adds cost and takes up space to have proper battery protection in a device. Many consumer items, especially stuff that is sold on price and not quality, don't incorporate good engineering. I get a kick out of Big Clive's channel on YouTube when he tests cheap Pound store tat that have really bad power adaptors that connect the mains to an easily accessed metal part of the product or onto an aux USB port.

          I vaped to help quit smoking years ago when the units were pathetically weak. Now they seem to be way overpowered and that likely puts a big strain on the battery.

          I do agree that putting a spare battery in a pocket with keys or something metallic is causing some fires, but I do see videos and read reports many times where it's the whole juice box going catastrophic.

  9. Duncan Macdonald Silver badge
    Mushroom

    200W ???!!!

    The safe short term discharge limit for 18650 type cells is in the order of 10 to 20 Amps depending on the cell type and quality. This gives under 80 watts/cell. To take 200 watts from a cell implies EXTREME OVERLOAD. Even with very good cells I would not expect a long battery life (possibly 50 cycles vs the 500+ that is possible with sane discharge rates). For anything less than very good cells, I would expect battery failure - possibly safe by blowing the internal protection or else by the battery catching fire.

    This person is obviously a complete idiot and should therefore take up politics!!

    1. Slef

      Re: 200W ???!!!

      Quite a lot of the heavy end of teh battery pack market at the more extreme end use 3 or more 18650 batteries which can deliver over 200 watts. Me I am quite happy with my vape that uses one battery and allows me to vape mouth to lung which is similar to fags, whilst the sub ohm beasts tend to be direct to lung jobbies. It is now 4 yrs 10 months and 21 days since I had a fag and the better half and the sprogs will most probably say it is the best thing I have ever done to give up the fags...Oh and unlike the opinionated anonymous twat above I do not have to hide behind facelessness.

      Andy

      1. Chronos Silver badge

        Re: 200W ???!!!

        Quite a lot of the heavy end of teh battery pack market at the more extreme end use 3 or more 18650 batteries which can deliver over 200 watts.

        Yes, Reuleaux et al. Me, I stuck with the humble DNA40 in a die-cast box (vented, natch) with a single cell, 500mA charger board and a Kayfun¹ on top. Even then, it's sitting at 15W. I had a Reuleaux but I swapped it for one of my DNA40 boxes as it was still sat at 15W and carrying something you could beat an attacking hippo senseless with just wasn't comfortable. I now see Evolv have gone to colour screens, programmable wire profiles and LiPo packs. Not my cuppa at all, I'm afraid.

        To each her own, though, although if they don't understand how to spec the cells for their mod, they really should stick to kits and prebuilt coils rather than stuff it up for everyone else.

        ¹ Modified Kayfun. They wick oh, so much better with Subtank style holes in the vapour chamber wall when wicked with Muji. Centre-punch half way up in line with the juice channels then a 4mm titanium nitride coated bit straight through. Zero dry hits in two years.

        1. 404 Silver badge

          Re: 200W ???!!!

          You can go either way with DNA boards, old and new - solder 18650 battery tray wire directly to the board or solder a LiPo connector in - gives you more options in case design.

          1. Chronos Silver badge

            Re: 200W ???!!!

            Yes, I am aware of the power options. It was more the faff of colour screens, blinkenlichts for no real benefit and suchlike that I don't really care for. In a way, the Darwin was the epitome of thoughtful design: It had everything you needed and nothing you didn't.

            That said, the one improvement they have made in the DNA75 and upwards is integrated charging. Not having display feedback on the DNA40 is the one thing that lets it down. Evolv has also broken the Provari mentality where everything is at least a triple figure price-tag by doing quality switched regulation at realistic prices. Even if they stick MP3 playback, Blue teeth and a puff counter (I hate those things; I do not need a bloody odometer on my PV) onto one of their boards, they've still done the world a favour.

            Oh, and while I'm ranting about progress, what the giddy frig were Svoe Mesto thinking with the Kayfun v4?

            1. Steven Raith

              Re: 200W ???!!!

              "blinkenlichts"

              Keeping yer dick in a vice, yeah?

              Steven "Follows AvE too" R

              1. MachDiamond Silver badge

                Re: 200W ???!!!

                "Steven "Follows AvE too" R"

                F'in A. He's a dang good engineer and has me rolling on the floor LMAO all of the time. I get a kick out of his daughter too. He's raising that one right. She'll be wanting a full mechanics tool set for her 7th birthday. His new son might be another couple of months older before he's asking to use the mill.

  10. Paul Hovnanian Silver badge

    Yo dawg!

    We put shorts in your shorts.

  11. 404 Silver badge

    Chipset in the mod is decent

    So don't believe it was the issue, everything points to the batteries. There are only like four online merchants that are trusted for original 18650 cells and Amazon isn't one of them. This guy should lose for being a dumbass, it's not like there isn't ton's of information about battery safety.

    Been smoke free since 4 June 2017 and squonking now with a Hotcig 80watt RSQ and Hcigar Maze v3.

    1. Steven Raith

      Re: Chipset in the mod is decent

      I've been off the smokes for six years now. Gone through the Egos, top wick tanks, bottom wick tanks, sub ohm tanks, multi coil tanks, RDAs, RDTAs, etc, anywhere from 5w to 235w.

      Current device? Innoken T20 tank at 13.5w on whatever smallish battery pack I have to hand.

      No need to post that, I was just reminiscing :-)

      Number of electrical problems in that time with the devices or cells? None.

      Steven R

      1. 404 Silver badge

        Re: Chipset in the mod is decent

        Since 4 June 2017:

        Innokin 80w Kroma - not enough battery. Returned to B&M.

        Smok AL85 - screen burned out RMA took seven months. Vaped Forward.

        Smok AL85 - Vaped Forward.

        Smok Alien 220w - battery tray busted up, gorilla-glued back up now on back shelf.

        dripp3d DNA250w dual 18650 kit - home vape

        Smoant Battlestar - 200watt dual 18650 beast of a mod

        Smoant Battlestar - backup

        Hotcig RSQ 80w squonker - found that fabled 'Flavortown' - even gave away one of my beloved Battlestars with a Reload RTA clone...

        Now I'm casually looking for a dual 18650 squonker, might gut my DNA250 if I can find the right case.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Chipset in the mod is decent

      Could you say who these 4 are please as I'm sick to death of getting fake batteries.

      1. 404 Silver badge

        Re: Chipset in the mod is decent

        This will be easier and more helpful to you:

        https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/blog-entry/moochs-recommended-batteries.7593/#subs

        Has a list of trusted vendors as well as battery tests and ratings

  12. GrapeBunch Bronze badge

    SHMG

    The advert served for this story was:

    Homeless Man Buys a Ferrari

    You'll do a double take when you see how he did it.

  13. asdfasdfasdf2015

    Yeah good luck buddy

    If you choose to use a 200W device, your fault. If you put the batteries in your pocket without any sort of protective case, your fault. If you didn't turn the device off when you put it in your pocket, your fault. Sorry for the burns, but you're a dummy.

    1. 404 Silver badge

      Re: Yeah good luck buddy

      I read the complaint pdf and looked the guy up - he's a 20 year old mechanic with tatts, an iPhone, can't fake sleeping for shit, and a thin porn 'stash - according to his GoFundMe, he saved his little brother and sister from the flames. What they were doing in his shorts is left to the imagination of the reader.

      Currently, he has $20 of $20,000 donated with almost a year since the campaign was started.

  14. flearider

    should have used Samsung 30q's or the 30 t's 30amp limit ..

    lets just be glad he wasn't driving ..

    and why reach in your pocket just whip the shorts off ?

    1. 404 Silver badge

      I have four sets of married 30Q's I rotate through on my dual 18650 mods, changed up and got four Sony VTC6's for my Hotcig RSQ. I'm liking the Sonys over the Samsungs, have a bit more power when used in the RSQ.

    2. rmason Silver badge

      Honestly, it doesn't really matter what cells he went for.

      The issue here (I can almost guarantee) is that the cells are fakes. I can't speak for the states but in the UK *so many* cells are fake, to the point where if you buy from anywhere but 5 or 6 places, they almost certainly are. Amazon is a massive red flag here, even the vape shops that try their hardest get caught out with fake cells, amazon sellers won't be bothering to check, and in the race to the bottom price wise again it almost guarantees you've purchased a counterfeit.

      Fake or otherwise, if they are mistreated this happens. As has been said, that will also be the case here. Real or not I suspect we are discussing this chaps spare set of batteries. The ones loose in his pocket.

      IF they were in the device, again that points to them being fakes (low amp rated calls packaged as the good stuff).

      The best he'lll get is a (probably asia or US based) amazon seller vanish under their current name. LG and the maker of the vape mod in questions, can't really do much about fake cells.

      Then you've got a similar rabbit hole to go down asking if the device itself is real, or a clone (huge parts of the vape community call fakes/counterfiets "clones" so as to feel better about knowingly buying them, because they're cheaper).

  15. JeffyPoooh Silver badge
    Pint

    My recent hot battery incident...

    Thankfully, just an AA Alkaline. Pressed a Kirkland brand AA cell into a wall clock. The wall clock battery socket was very tight and wouldn't easily accept the cell. Pulled it out, but the clock's flimsy negative terminal somehow wedged itself into the cell's wrapper. Turns out the cell case is positive with the insulation break at the bottom. So the flimsy terminal bridge the oddly placed battery terminals. As I was trying to unjam the cell, I noticed it was getting hot. And hotter. Crikey! One huge yank got the AA cell out, but essentially destroyed the clock.

    How flippin' difficult should it be to put a damn AA cell into a damn wall clock?

    1. Steven Raith

      Re: My recent hot battery incident...

      Quick, ban wall clocks, they're a fire hazard!

      Steven R

  16. Chairman of the Bored Silver badge

    So... Do we change this guy's name to Hot Rod?

    Too soon!

  17. Siberian Hamster

    Oh come on guys, why hasn't anyone thought of the pun...

    Guy gets caught short with a short in his short shorts!

  18. Stuart Castle

    I wonder if we should bring back the old (and often terrifying) public information films. With an already high (and increasing) number of devices using rechargable batteries, I wonder if we should be teaching people that these things can be dangerous if handled incorrectly. At least something reminding people to be careful when handling and charging batteries.

    It's not the same thing, but a friend of mine bought an Apple branded usb to lightning adapter. He complained to me it had caught fire, which it did. As we had been having an argument over whether unbranded cables are better than branded (a little bit of a one sided argument really, as while I tend to recommend branded cables, I don't actually care what other people use, as long as it's safe), he tried to use it as evidence that Apple branded cables and adapters are less safe than unbranded ones.

    I found out later that while it was an Apple branded adaptor, he sleeps with his phone on the bed next to him. At some point during the night, he'd moved and pushed the phone under his pillow. This is likely why the adaptor caught fire.

    It's also worth remembering that buying cheap batteries and chargers can increase the danger. To lower the price and still make profits, the manufacturer is likely to have cut something. What if that something is safety circuitry, or manufacturing standards?

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