So the Scottish is funding a roll out, but it's not the consumer that is paying.
So is that magic money then, that generates itself?
Scotland is unhappy about Westminster's plans to introduce a 10Mbps universal service obligation, with the Scottish Rural Economy Secretary calling it "grossly unfair". The country is currently pursuing far more ambitious plans to deploy 30Mbps broadband to nearly all homes in the country under a £600m programme that is due to …
We get much less than the Scottish economy returns to Wastemonster. We are also the only part of the UK other than the SE with a positive balance of payments, so we pay our way in the world, only we see feck all benefit from that.
The boom in gin distilling is returning hundreds of millions of quid annually to Whitehall every year now and that has to be added to the even bigger figure of the whisky and other distillation duties. All from barley, water and yeast. Oh and it is booming so much we have had to teach Sassenach farmers the strictures for the barley so they can grow it and sell it to us so we are boosting English farming to boot.
BTW there's a big industrial distillers and bottlers up the hill from Kirkcaldy in Fife. It does a huge amount of stuff under license things like Bailley's, Kahlua, vodkas, a huge proportion of UK spirits are made there.
After were are independent and the EU has our backs we MIGHT agree to continue selling them to you.
"We get much less than the Scottish economy returns to Wastemonster"
I'm sorry but this is complete and utter balearics according to the SNP led government's own figures.
"We are also the only part of the UK other than the SE with a positive balance of payments so we pay our way in the world"
Wrong again. Again according to the SNP govts figures we get ~£1900 per head support from the r-UK.
BTW, NI, Wales, the NE and NW of England all get more per head than we do. Our revenues are about the UK average so our economy is doing OK, it's just that schools/ hospitals/ policing roads etc are expensive to provide in the Highlands and Islands.
Ever wondered why there's been no mention of Full Fiscal Autonomy for a while?
"Ever wondered why there's been no mention of Full Fiscal Autonomy for a while?"
Something to do with the crude oil price collapse perhaps? Something the little one never mentioned may happen. And remember it was full autonomy, well, so long as they can keep the Pound and link it directly to it.
As a scotsman (living in Scotland) its pretty depressing to read some of comments on here. It seems a lot of people don't understand the concept of divide and conquer. This is main political tool of any democratic goverment. Scottish - English, Workers - Benefit claimants. Its about subscribing to our instincts to be pack animals to garner support, about creating a them and us (if you will).
Until someone sees the actual figures (and proposed rollout) you don't know how this all shakes out so it would be wise to forgoe racial stereotypes in these situations. (I was called a "jock" in a highly derogatory manner by a customer some years ago - until then I didn't even know it was considered a racially defamatory word - I don't care anyway - proud scotsman and all that!
Anyway any Scotsman will tell you why we don't "like" the English - English football commentators! (especially around the world cup)
"After were are independent and the EU has our backs we MIGHT agree to continue selling them to you."
have you been asleep for the last few years?
you lost the independence referendum, The UK as a whole voted to leave the EU, The EU has already said that you will have to apply to join the EU, and as things stand you do not qualify, and even if you were to join, you would have to give up you funny money and join the euro zone.... you will have to give up that independence and bow down to Brussels...
if it was up to me, I would let you have that independence and then help rebuild that wall the Romans started....
Another member of the National Cult Party dreaming the dream and so far from present reality that I think he is on the gin.
The facts are that a separate Scotland would have a huge financial deficit from day 1 and any Scottish company ( and nearly all the distillers are foreign / multinational owned and so can do what they want ) would sell anything they could to anyone who would buy it. Thankfully we had a referendum recently that rejected the notion of separation. But dream on.
Meantime why not work together with your fellow Scots to improve the situation so that Scotland can prosper rather than suffer from a lack of investment because of constitutional uncertainty ?
The SNP have abandoned Full Fiscal Autonomy because the Scottish government is a net recipient of a top up from Westminster under the Barnet Formula according to their own figures, and is running the highest budget deficit in Europe, but isn't being forced to undertake Greek-level austerity because of UK membership. The population of Scotland is much more rural, and also declining, both absolutely and relatively to the rest of the UK. The cost of oil extraction is also rising, along with the upcoming costs of decommissioning oil platforms.
If Scotland joined the EU, and thus the €uro, it would be forced to undertake savage cuts to meet the membership criteria, and given that Scotland is a relatively rich country in Europe, it would also go from being a net beneficiary to a net subsidizer of poor countries in eastern Europe. It would be leaving its largest market for goods, the UK, for a much smaller one. It would also be one of the smallest nations in Europe and without a grouping i.e the Franco-German alliance or Visegrad in the east.
The UK is a union, we take care of each other, so it shouldn't matter if you live in a super rich city like London, or rural Scotland. We distribute money and services to whoever, and wherever it's needed. Scotland long subsidized the rest of the UK, so when oil prices collapsed the rest of the UK stepped in to subsidise Scotland. Somthing the Greeks never had. The SNP imo stoke these petty nationalist attacks on England, to provoke an inevitable backlash, to further their divisive agenda.
I for one adore Scottish whiskey, and i'll happily purchase it for the rest of my days, whether Scotland remains a member nation or becomes independent.
You do realise that England is the only nation of the UK that doesn't have free prescriptions. Both Wales & Norn Irn had them before Scotland
An you probably don't realise that its actually cheaper ( in Scotland anyways) to not charge for prescriptions as opposed to the costs of means testing them and all the added admin that goes with that
Scotland is currently pursuing far more ambitious plans to deploy 30Mbps broadband to nearly all homes in the country under a £600m programme that is due to be done and dusted by March 2022, and which will be paid for by the Scottish administration.
Does nearly all homes exclude most of the highlands?
No, it doesnae. Though BT are currently being bastards. There are communities who have no broadband but they can't access funds to do it themselves because BT won't rule out connecting them themselves. THAT is a big holdup. There are communities in the Highlands on broadband via microwave links to transmitters on hilltops and that sort of thing.
The big problem is Scotland has no say in telecoms but has to roll things out, do the admin side and can value add if we want and can find the funds. Note it is very investing as there are an increasing number of internet reliant businesses in the Highlands. If you are a running a B&B in Plockton or Ullapool you need to be online at better than dialup speeds.
There are a small number of dwellings, almost exclusively hunting lodges stuck at the end of dirt tracks miles up a glen with not a single other dwelling between them and the main(ish) road. The Scottish government probably rightly thinks that if the folks staying in said hunting lodges what to surf the internet with superfast speeds on an evening they can pay for that themselves with FTTPoD, because the public purse is not subsidising that. Note due to the none straight nature of most glens using microwave links is not a viable option either so it's pretty much FTTP or nothing.
The rest of the highlands the Scottish government are fairly desperate to cover with decent broadband in an effort to stem any further depopulation.
I'm always a bit confused by the SNP, on the one hand they're big fans of the EU which takes money from the richer parts of the continent to give to the poorer bits to make roads and stuff. On the other hand they're completely against the same thing happening in the subset of the EU that is Great Britain.
... Unless it's in their favour
Well, that is only reasonable, since Wee Jimmie has a party founded on a policy of nationalism and socialism.
She does of course overlook other policy areas with similar customer-funded obligations where Scotland was a net beneficiary. For example the Energy Company Obligation, which disproportionately benefited Scotland.
Yep, it's a bit much, the Scots and Welsh whinging about being screwed economically for centuries. Tell, you what, I've a great idea. Why doesn't England just tell them to get stuffed and declare UDI from the Dis-united Kingdom. Then we'd see how Wales and Scotland can survive on their own, and how Norn Ireland copes in a united Ireland.
[And we can predict the result - Wales, Scotland, Ireland thrive in the EU and with their own UN seats. Much like all those other small countries without Tory governments manage to. No more being dragged into Westminster's wars. No more Tory governments. Good luck with that England!]
>Yep, it's a bit much
What's really funny is that Labour gave a huge amount of devolution to Scotland in the hope it would be the main power base for them yet was rendered into oblivion there, that blew up in their faces quite spectacularly given the Tories are now the second biggest party in the Scottish parliament. I've a lot of time for Ruth Davidson.
Not just the Scottish Parliament, were it not for the huge swing to the Conservatives in Scotland in the last election Corbyn would be PM of a Labour minority government or a coalition right now.
Admittedly a large part of that is a backlash against the SNP though, who are annoying a lot of people in Scotland by focusing on their drive for independence rather than actually governing the country as they are elected to do. For those of you outside of Scotland who thought the Brexit referendum was unpleasant, imagine going through it twice in the space of a few years.
Ruth Davidson isn't all that popular in Scotland, don't let the MSM deceive you - her record vote is still lower than that old witch Thatcher achieved and her parliamentary grouping in Scotland is mainly made up of regional seats due to the type of proportional representation used.
[And we can predict the result - Wales, Scotland, Ireland thrive in the EU...
Really? The EU heavyweights are on Ireland's case over tax rates and privacy, and that won't end well for Ireland. Wales and Scotland would end up like all small EU nations - they either have the big countries wipe their arse on them (think Greece, Portugal), or if they're lucky they pick up a few crumbs from policies built for the advantage of France and Germany. And in all the big decisions, their democratic "say" is negligible. The EU runs for the real benefit of France, Germany, and by historical accident, the tax haven of Luxembourg.
In theory I would agree that both Scotland and Wales COULD do far better as independent countries - and that is an outcome I wish I could see. Unfortunately, whilst they remain parochial socialist shit holes with a grinding inferiority complex, an overblown sense of national pride, and a deep rooted aversion to most forms of modernisation that won't happen. Both are near enough to single party states, operating as public sector theme parks. Everybody with any get up and go has got up and gone, and that happened several generations ago.
Look at your own neck of the woods - it does have its own university, but it's not exactly a cosmopolitan, vibrant, well connected, internationally welcoming destination, is it? Take hospitality - "we'll keep a welcome in the hillside" my arse! Despite the potential for the best meat and seafood in much of Europe, it's bloody impossible to find a decent restaurant - it's like being trapped in 1972. Service and the welcome are shite - depressingly it improves immeasurably whenever I give my Welsh surname. Where's the thriving water sports economy? Where's the modern resort hotels bringing in jobs and money? Nowhere. It's all Brummies in caravan parks, and thanks to the locals (and conniving cops of the day) burning down holiday homes, there's still a reluctance to even consider buying holiday homes in Wales.
If ever a country shat on its own potential it is Wales.
Or, if we can edit your post slightly, in the context of the UK...
if they're lucky they pick up a few crumbs from policies built for the advantage of
France and Germany England. And in all the big decisions, their democratic "say" is negligible. The EU UK runs for the real benefit of France, Germany England, and by historical accident, the tax haven of Luxembourg the Isle of Man.
So Wales and Scotland would be worse off how exactly? It's interesting that virtually every argument used by the Leavers for taking the UK out of the EU can also be used (in spades) to justify the breakup of the UK, but the Britnats don't seem to see the irony!
"So Wales and Scotland would be worse off how exactly? It's interesting that virtually every argument used by the Leavers for taking the UK out of the EU can also be used (in spades) to justify the breakup of the UK, but the Britnats don't seem to see the irony!"
Except the money flows OUT of the UK to the EU.
Wales and Scotland get a lot of subsidy IN from the r-UK.
So the situation wrt the EU is completely reversed.
"Britnats". You're an SNP supporter then?
The break-up of the UK would be Brexit on steroids. Scotland's trade with the UK is 4 times the value of that with the EU, Scotland would have to cut its budget deficit through much deeper austerity to meet membership criteria, Scotland would also go from a net recipient of funding to a net contributor.
TBF Nationalists who oppose Brexit don't appear to see the irony either.
"In theory I would agree that both Scotland and Wales COULD do far better as independent countries"
In general, *any* region of *any* country COULD do far better as an independent country, because in general the quality of government in every country on the planet is pretty crap. In any specific instance, however, it is likely that the region would be worse off, because it would still be governed by politicians. In particular, during the critical early years of the transition they would be governed by politicians whose entire career had been built on their mastery of a single issue.
So yes, Ms Sturgeon, Scotland might be better off alone, in the same way that, Mr Farage, the UK might be better off alone, but don't hold your breath on that one.
I get a just a little less than 1Mbps fairly consistently. If the Scots think they can afford 30Mbps for themselves almost everywhere, wouldn't it only be fair for them to subsidise a little upgrade for my area? It's not like my bit of Z2 London is that remote or anything...
After all, the point of all this intra-UK subsidizing is to even things out for everyone. Not to /uneven/ things further.
This is not considering the case where a Scot and an English person chat by Skype at the quality of the lowest speed?
Both side benefit from upping the bandwidth.
The presumption that Scottish affairs and English have no connection what so ever, fortunately is still incorrect.
This kind of "them n us" thinking is about to cost dearly in UK relationships with the rest of Europe; it would be wise to drop it at "home" too.
Agreed. Scots shouldn’t have to pay twice but as I said below they will. The English scheme is being implemented by industry not the government and if the usual culprits are involved then charges will go up across the board and Scottish consumers will end up paying as well.
Let's hope they've got a bit better at it. If they hadn't fucked it up in the late 1690's, maybe they'd still be autonomous.
"The land where the Darien colony was built, in the modern province of Guna Yala, is virtually uninhabited today."
IIRC the last time that the Scottish government gave money to BT we got something stupidly called "Exchange Activate". A whopping 512kbps, which was too slow to do very much. Then when BT upgraded our exchange to ADSL Max (another stupid name?) they did not inform their customers. Why? Because they were charging more money for the slower service!
I had been checking SamKnows and when I rang my ISP to inform them of the speed increase was told that BT never tell them anything.
BT Wholesale is still the sole provider :(
My router tells me that it's connected at 8128kbps down and 448kbps up. Uploading anything vaguely large is very tedious.
Note for SDR enthusiasts.
Last week I port forwarded Openwebrx running on a RPi. I was able to access it from outside of my network but it took about 30 seconds to initially load the page. I had it tuned to Marine VHF frequencies and it worked pretty well considering the slow upload speed. (set to 4 users)
"My router tells me that it's connected at 8128kbps down and 448kbps up. "
My ADSL is nominally 16mbps. I used to get a connect speed >12mbps. Nowadays it has dropped to <8mbps.
However my upload connection has remained near enough just under 1mbps.
"My router tells me that it's connected at 8128kbps down and 448kbps up. "
My ADSL is nominally 16mbps. I used to get a connect speed >12mbps. Nowadays it has dropped to <8mbps.
However my upload connection has remained near enough just under 1mbps
I am not trying to annoy anyone but I live close enough to the exchange to hear them open the door and start banging around,,,
I get a solid 80Mbit down and a healthy 20Mbit up....
If they think that the telecom companies won’t add the cost onto Scottish consumers’ bills even if a separate scheme takes place. The companies will want to appear to not be passing the cost onto consumers and what better way than implementing the same price increases to all customers?
Can we English, Welsh, and Northern Irish stop subsidising everything for the Scots since they want to be selfish?
When your energy costs, fuel costs, and delivery charges sky rocket maybe you'll see why we operate as one united country and the English overpay so you get the same consistent prices north and south of the border. A good argument for getting rid of the Barnett Formula too there. Fair is fair.
To be fair, even copper is a bit crap in Scotland. My experience of line noise caused by miles of poorly managed electric cattle fences is almost impossible to resolve for voice, let alone any useful broadband.
Out of toon should be fiber and nothing else IMHO (and costs aside).
Most of Scotland is almost beyond "rural" and would better be described as remote. Getting mains power and water are luxuries, drainage is leaky concrete bunkers called cesspits. Given the usual ride to hospital, or to the nearest builders merchant can be hundreds of miles round trip on overpriced fuel these places need broadband to function and survive. Many are excluded from free delivery even from larger online merchants too. Its another world and quite unexpected these environments are only a couple of hours drive from the English border.
Hanging fiber by the electric utilities would be relatively straightforward as they are the only service to have poles to places aside from BT, I am surprised they haven't found a way of monetising that...
No utilities at all was normal just a generation ago in a lot of places, including a fair bit of the southern uplands never mind the highlands. In Scotlands defence though the Wastemonster plan is still only just keeping up with what other parts of the world consider a most basic service...
So once again the Scottish Tax Payer gets a bill - but gets zero back from Wastemonster. So whatever happened to David Cameron's Love Bombing of Scotland in the runup to 2014!?
Seems to be just a case of "get back in your box Scotland" and business as usual as your wealth gets extracted to prop up the remnant laughing stock that is "Great" Britain.
Government should just butt out entirely. If there is a demand for faster Internet then there's a profit to be made. If you live in the sticks then the cables will have to be longer and it will cost more. You can't expect other people to pay that cost, any more than they can expect to get a share of the bigger house you can afford because it's in the sticks.
So it's bad economics and it makes people resentful to boot. As soon as government subsidises something everyone starts arguing over the fairness of the subsidy. It's unbecoming.
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