back to article Windows 10 to force you to use Edge, even if it isn't default browser

Microsoft’s about to test a new feature of Windows 10 that will force users to employ its Edge browser under some circumstances. Revealed in the announcement of Windows 10 Insider Preview Build 17623 for Skip Ahead, the change means “we will begin testing a change where links clicked on within the Windows Mail app will open in …

  1. J. R. Hartley Silver badge

    Fucking idiots

    It's like the 90s never happened.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Fucking idiots

      "The Register imagines few comments Redmond receives will be printable." FTFY

      You see, outside of Redmond "the 90s happened."

      Inside of Redmond, the unicorns all have Rosa Klebb horseshoes, dead eyes, and those horns are forever giving n*z* salutes.

      1. Agamemnon

        Re: Fucking idiots

        I keep telling ya'll, I'm a xNIX Admin that lives in Redmond (I'll be in prison for homicide before decade's close, I'm sure).

        The Kool-Aid here is rampant, and most Macro$loppies working now aren't old enough to remember the Anti-Trust suit.

        And this administration's DOJ doesn't seem too willing to reign in business so, I'll just say it to get it out of the way: Install BSD or Linux and call it an afternoon.

        Oh, and "Edge" is the most secure browser because nobody fucking uses it.

        1. Geoffrey W Silver badge

          Re: Fucking idiots

          RE: "Oh, and "Edge" is the most secure browser because nobody fucking uses it."

          I'm tempted to say that Linux is the most secure OS because nobody fucking uses it. Once its usage becomes large enough and it escapes the control of a small group of people - see Linux based Android for an example - I'm sure the sense of security we all wallow in will vanish in a puff of pink unicorn smoke and our shibboleth will topple off its pedestal like the hollow plaster god it is.

        2. JohnFen Silver badge

          Re: Fucking idiots

          "The Kool-Aid here is rampant"

          I've been to the Microsoft (Redmond) campus more often than I'd like -- it is a supremely creepy place that exudes that "cult" vibe everywhere. I hate going there. On the other hand, I hate it a little bit less than having to be in SV.

    2. harmjschoonhoven

      Re: Fucking idiots

      AFAIR I changed the Desktop Background to a nerve-relaxing darkgreen with tiles showing in black I hate Microsoft - I hate Microsoft - I hate Microsoft in five-pixel high microfont for every Microsoft Windows® PC where I could do that.

      MS gave me always the feeling I had only a teaspoon to hammer a nail in a wall, where UX gave me a toolkit with the lightest and most elegant tools to a sledgehammer.

      1. jelabarre59 Silver badge

        Re: Fucking idiots

        AFAIR I changed the Desktop Background to a nerve-relaxing darkgreen with tiles showing in black I hate Microsoft - I hate Microsoft - I hate Microsoft in five-pixel high microfont for every Microsoft Windows® PC where I could do that.

        You need this for wallpaper...

        http://www.kmfms.com/main-logo.jpg

    3. EarthDog Bronze badge

      Look on the bright side.

      We can party like it's 1999 and 9/11 hasn't happened yet.

    4. OffBeatMammal

      Re: Fucking idiots

      funnily enough people have no problem giving Apple a pass for doing exactly this same shit throughout iOS - you can't choose your mapping app, your browser, your mail app, your calendar etc. And because of this Microsoft starts to think it's okay to inch back to forcing users into using their second rate apps because Apple has got away with that behaviour for so long.

      I use full-fat Outlook (because the Win10 inbox mail app is a half-arsed mess) and will be seriously grumpy if they start hijacking links there to point to Edge instead of my default Brave ... at the end of the day I don't care about what browser I actually use, but I want the one that keeps my history etc in sync and has a UI that doesn't suck... Edge ain't that.

      So... yes it sucks MS are doing this, but if we're going to get outraged there let's make sure Apple also feel which way the wind blows

      https://medium.com/@offbeatmammal/apple-are-a-design-company-so-why-is-ios-so-annoying-d40530dce8d9

      (and no, this still won't usher in the era of desktop Linux. For all the great advances that have been made in the last few years it's still not the no-brain install that Windows is for the vast majority of users)

      1. wallaby
        Pint

        Re: Fucking idiots

        Have a pint OffBeatMammal

        exactly my point on here, Microsoft does it - out come the penguins on a rant

        anyone else does it - silence

        and yes, no year of Linux on the desktop - thank goodness - Id hate to have to consult the whining masses when I have a tricky issue, esp. one that involves integration in a Microsoft environment

        1. Maventi

          Re: Fucking idiots

          > exactly my point on here, Microsoft does it - out come the penguins on a rant

          > anyone else does it - silence

          Incorrect - they are all taking the piss. Apple on iOS. MS with their apps (Cortana, now Mail, etc). Google with things like Hangouts.

          All are user-hostile decisions.

        2. Teiwaz Silver badge

          Re: Fucking idiots

          Penguin on a Rant?

          exactly my point on here, Microsoft does it - out come the penguins on a rant

          What, apple do it on their expensive phone?

          The iphone may be the most well-known, but not the de-facto standard interface for phones the way Windows is for desktops.

          Penguins are often required to use Windows more often than IOS in work or friend/family support, so Microsofts stupid decisions affect us too.

          We don't always come out to put the boot in MS merely for sadism alone you know...

        3. FreeRadical

          @wallaby Re: Fucking idiots

          The difference is that Apple has always been a "closed box" environment where they control everything, and Windows USED TO BE an "open box" where you could customize settings, choose updates, etc. This is the reason I am not an Apple fan, and went with Windows in the first place. With Windows 10, Microsoft if trying to transition Windows into a "closed box", which is why people are pissed.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Fucking idiots

        Agreed, Apple should also be called to answer on bundling and tying of products and services.

        It's not going to happen in trump America, where both companies have protected status. However the EU should really be investigating both companies for this.

        1. Remy Redert

          Re: Fucking idiots

          The EU did investigate both of them some time ago. That's where the mandatory browser selection screen came from. And a few years back when they investigated Apple, they decided that Apple didn't have a big enough market share to worry about possible monopoly abuse. If you don't like iOs forcing you to use inferior apps, don't get an iOs based device.

          1. Zippy's Sausage Factory
            Meh

            Re: Fucking idiots

            Speaking as a Penguin who also owns Apple and Windows kit (as well as an old copy of OS/2 in the back of a cupboard), I personally don't care that much. I can see why antitrust people might care, however, as it is an attempt to leverage their position to distort a market.

            Apple's iOS stance is basically around security, and not wanting battery/space munching web rendering engines loaded on iOS when theirs is already painful enough, thank you. And they might support Flash too, which would be worse.

            Fun fact: Adobe Flash comes pre-installed on Windows 10 and you can't remove it without butchering the system. Given that you can remove that small slice of purgatory that is OneDrive from Programs & Features, I wonder how much Adobe are paying for that little privilege?

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: people have no problem giving Apple a pass for doing exactly this same shit

        Well, for me at least there is a difference - notably, I've never been forced to use an Apple product, but have been forced to use MS ones.

      4. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        "no problem giving Apple a pass" - One major difference

        Apple provide iOS installed an hardware they make.

        Microsoft provide a generic OS that can be installed on any (compatible) hardware.

        1. This post has been deleted by its author

          1. Spanners Silver badge
            Flame

            Re: "no problem giving Apple a pass" - One major difference

            No. Apple do not get a free pass from me. They are an appalling bunch of lawyer loving crooks who give MS wet dreams about locking down their users.

            My response - never buy from Apple, don't recommend Apple and point out that Apple phones are no better than Samsung, OnePlus etc but do include the standard Apple "gullibility tax".

            No. Apple does not get a pass.

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: "no problem giving Apple a pass" - One major difference

            Apple do the exact same thing as Microsoft here

            Huge difference: People choose to use Apple.

            (I chose not to - I chose choice)

            1. David Nash Silver badge
              WTF?

              Re: "no problem giving Apple a pass" - One major difference

              Huge difference: People choose to use Apple.

              Or they choose to use MS. What's the difference?

              1. JohnFen Silver badge

                Re: "no problem giving Apple a pass" - One major difference

                "Or they choose to use MS"

                Very few people choose to use Windows -- Windows is just what comes on the machines people buy. To use Apple requires an active choice rather than merely acceptance of the default.

                I think it's fair to say that Apple users, having gone out of their way to choose Apple products, know what they're buying into. I don't think the same is true of most Windows users.

        2. cambsukguy

          Re: "no problem giving Apple a pass" - One major difference

          > Microsoft provide a generic OS that can be installed on any (compatible) hardware.

          The important word here is CAN - nobody makes people use Windows - choose from at least four other 'OSs' that work on PCs, one from Apple (macOS?), Linux, ChromeOS (sort of), Android (sort of).

          As we keep hearing here, Windows is not mandatory anymore, if one doesn't like it, choose an alternative.

          If your company makes you use it, it is no different to being forced to use a locked-down PC or a 'special' phone or an old piece of kit you hate, it is part of your job and you decide if it is enough o make you look elsewhere.

          For the masses with 'No Choice', they won't give a shit either way, they know nothing about Browser wars, OSs or anything else, stuff just changes and they carry on or ask for help.

          Personally, I find Edge doesn't massacre my memory and loads pages fast, both things that matter more to me than OS politics.

          1. Dazed and Confused Silver badge

            Re: "no problem giving Apple a pass" - One major difference

            > As we keep hearing here, Windows is not mandatory anymore, if one doesn't like it, choose an alternative.

            OK so you get a choice of which OS to use but you don't have a choice of which OS you have to pay for. It is very difficult to buy most PC HW without paying for a W10 license. There are also issues with the FW being reluctant to run other OSes.

            1. jelabarre59 Silver badge

              Re: "no problem giving Apple a pass" - One major difference

              It is very difficult to buy most PC HW without paying for a W10 license. There are also issues with the FW being reluctant to run other OSes.

              And here is why I no longer buy *NEW* PC kit (laptop or desktop). Some OTHER sucker has already paid the Microsoft Tax, and has gotten rid of the machine because it now runs like crap. I wipe the drive, load Linux, and I'm good to go. And being slightly older hardware means the hardware issues have already been sorted.

          2. JohnFen Silver badge

            Re: "no problem giving Apple a pass" - One major difference

            "Windows is not mandatory anymore"

            Can you please tell that to my employer?

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: "no problem giving Apple a pass" - One major difference

              "Windows is not mandatory anymore"

              Can you please tell that to my employer?

              You seem to misunderstand - there is still choice here - just that your employer (who has the right) has taken it for you. They have a choice what browser you use during work time and you have a choice whether or not you work there.

              If your employer bought Apple hardware then your employer loses their choice of browser - but you can still walk out - which I would do if my employer switched to Apple.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: "no problem giving Apple a pass" - One major difference

                ugh.

                I started work for a client, who insisted I used Windows. Not even allowed Linux on a VM because "policy".

                I walked out (politely) before lunch, got a call back in the evening after they "reviewed their policy".

                That might sound like me being an ass, but I was actually hired for my Linux expertise to migrate their servers. (18 months on, I'm still with them)

          3. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: "no problem giving Apple a pass" - One major difference

            "If your company makes you use it....it is part of your job and you decide if it is enough o make you look elsewhere."

            I have to wonder if you are actually employed. No, it is not part of my job to use a browser forced on me by Microsoft.

            1. Someone Else Silver badge
              FAIL

              @BlockChainToo -- Re: "no problem giving Apple a pass" - One major difference

              I have to wonder if you are actually employed. No, it is not part of my job to use a browser forced on me by Microsoft.

              I'm happy for you, I really am. But that doesn't make you any less of a pompous git for not realizing that the rest of the world may not have the same luxury as you. Fat-asses tend to be like that.

          4. Daniel 18

            Re: "no problem giving Apple a pass" - One major difference

            "Personally, I find Edge doesn't massacre my memory and loads pages fast, both things that matter more to me than OS politics."

            The new (58) Firefox is faster still and configures well for security and privacy with a load of good extensions (Privacy Badger, Ghostery, NoScript, uBlock origins, etc).

            It is also phenomenal for memory management for those of us who do breadth + depth research on the Internet - a dozen windows with hundreds of open tabs, with no slowdown and memory footprint less than 1 GB. (disclaimer - underlying OS is Linux for me, but if you can get 600 tabs open under Linux, I suspect you may well get half that, at least, under Windows - the Linux Firefox improved quite markedly when they went to the new engine and architecture).

            The new Firefox is also multi-core aware, and will use them while avoiding treading on other processes.

        3. Dazed and Confused Silver badge

          Re: "no problem giving Apple a pass" - One major difference

          Apple provide iOS installed an hardware they make.

          Microsoft provide a generic OS that can be installed on any (compatible) hardware.

          You can only get iOS if you buy Apple's HW. MS SW comes on almost everything else. MS also have contracts with just about every other HW manufacturer making it difficult for them to supply non-Window's systems, so it is very difficult to buy a non Apple PC without being forced to buy Windows. MS are considered to be a monopoly and as such are expected to behave in ways minority players aren't. The EU has in the past forced MS to give users a choice about browsers, they then quietly forgot and the EU quietly forgot to enforce the ruling until it became public that there was an issue and they were chided back into action.

          1. Daniel 18

            Re: "no problem giving Apple a pass" - One major difference

            "MS also have contracts with just about every other HW manufacturer making it difficult for them to supply non-Window's systems, so it is very difficult to buy a non Apple PC without being forced to buy Windows."

            ... and this is the thing that needs fixing ...

        4. rotokq

          Re: "no problem giving Apple a pass" - One major difference

          "no problem giving Apple a pass" - One major difference

          Apple provide iOS installed an hardware they make.

          Microsoft provide a generic OS that can be installed on any (compatible) hardware.

          Not Quite Anonymous, Apple iOS is executable on just about ANY x64 intel or AMD architecture out there. I've already done this with Snow Leopard a long time ago and it was quite easy along with a multi-boot of Ubuntu and (unfortunately) windows 7. If anything it's 'Apple' that should be right up there along with Microsoft on the stump target shooting block as far as I'm concerned for abandoning all of their old software platforms that were brilliant and letting them sit and rot. I'd give both a "Triple-F".

      5. Jon 37

        Re: Fucking idiots

        > funnily enough people have no problem giving Apple a pass for doing exactly this same shit throughout iOS

        Apple iOS is a walled garden. Apple iOS has always been a walled garden. If you buy Apple iOS products you know this and chose it, so it should be no surprise that it is a walled garden. If you build apps to run on Apple iOS products you know this and chose to build the app anyway.

        Microsoft Windows used to be a general-purpose OS that let you install and run whatever software you want, and customize how you want. Microsoft provided some default apps to get you started, which ranged from low-quality but works for the basics (e.g. Notepad) to some okay apps (e.g. the Explorer file manager, Calculator, Internet Explorer, the Start Menu / Taskbar). But you could always customize it and choose what apps you want to use, including replacing all the built-in apps with better competitors. People built competitors to all the built-in apps.

        Microsoft are retroactively changing it, after people have bought it, so you're forced to use the MS web browser. People did not agree to this when they bought Windows. People did not know this when they invested significant money in building competing browsers.

        "I'm altering the deal ... pray I don't alter it any further".

        1. cutterman

          Re: Fucking idiots

          Yeah, and every single graphics program has its own graphics drivers - which might (or might not) work on your hardware…

        2. andyinoz

          Re: Fucking idiots

          They aren't forcing you to use the built in apps. I wonder what percentage of Windows 10 users use the Microsoft Mail app anyway, probably not a lot. And of those the number who care about their browser is probably less than half.

          Assuming you're not using Outlook (which many business users do) there's webmail, Thunderbird, Opera Mail or whatever else if this truly bothers you.

          1. Terry 6 Silver badge

            Re: Fucking idiots

            I had another go at leaving that accursed programme last night. But dammit, the calendar thing has me pinned. It's the one way I've found that keeps my calendar synchronised across PC/laptop/tablet/phone. And it can't synchronise calendars with it's "big brother" programme -Outlook 2010.

            The email and contacts are no problem. Thunderbird does fine for the rest of the family

      6. mikeymac

        Re: Fucking idiots

        Apple users are Apple users. They do what their told! (and they like it!).

        1. Emmeran

          Re: Fucking idiots

          Exactly why the best decision I ever made was buying my Ex-Wife an Apple device.

          1. Gpzjock
            Windows

            Re: Fucking idiots

            Surely, a better decision would have been to get her to buy her own Apple device?

            1. Richard Plinston Silver badge

              Re: Fucking idiots

              > Surely, a better decision would have been to get her to buy her own Apple device?

              No, she would have wound up with the pink one.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Fucking idiots

          > Apple users are Apple users. They do what their told! (and they like it!).

          Apple users enjoy paying to do as they're told :-)

          Hey it takes all sorts to make a world and who am I to judge.

        3. Mine's a Large One
          FAIL

          Re: Fucking idiots

          But we know the difference between "their" and "they're" (and "there").

      7. Mage Silver badge

        Re: Apple a pass

        One is a gadget, a phone, a tablet.

        The other is now primarily used for content creation and legacy applications.

        There are alternatives to iPhone/iPad, it has less than 15% of it's market. MS Windows is the dominant OS for laptops & desktop computers, especially in business. Many people feel they have no alternative due to Sage, Payroll, CRM, Adobe high end packages etc.

        Not comparable.

        I already found that "Current" Firefox builds can be Win10 default browser, but even an updated Firefox 52ESR can't be set as default.

        Also Edge isn't even a "proper" desktop application. Even if the most secure today, it may be incompatible or insecure tomorrow. It also breaks easily if Windows Firewall or Store settings are changed.

      8. JohnFen Silver badge

        Re: Fucking idiots

        "people have no problem giving Apple a pass for doing exactly this same shit throughout iOS"

        If I were forced to use iOS, I certainly wouldn't give Apple a pass on this. But I'm not. I am, however, forced to use Windows.

      9. Fred Tourette
        Linux

        Re: Fucking idiots

        ...this still won't usher in the era of desktop Linux....

        No, and I long ago gave up crusading for same; I'll be happy if there are enough of us Linux desktop users to at least keep it relevant. But as a Linux desktop user - quite a few years now in personal life, albeit work keeps me in Win7 - it is pieces like this that make me smile. We penguinheads may never conquer the universe, but it's still a nice little smug corner of it in which we reside, not only shrugging off most (not all) of the malware that's floating around, but also shrugging off Microsoft (and Apple) making decisions for us whether we like/want them or not.

        1. Jakester

          Re: Fucking idiots

          I have a couple friends who switched to Linux a couple years ago. They had older computers and I recommended they try Linux, Ubuntu, rather than waste money on a new Windows computer. They have very responsive computers that have been problem free and should be good for a few more years, as long as there is no hardware failure. The best part is I get no more requests for help for incessant Windows issues.

          1. grumpy-old-person

            Re: Fucking idiots

            I have done the same and hardly ever hear from users again - except for one fellow who I migrated from Windows 7 on an antique laptop (Windows 10 would not install, no matter how much I tried) who manages to have "issues". Still trying to figure out how he manages this :)

      10. Daniel 18

        Re: Fucking idiots

        " it's still not the no-brain install that Windows is for the vast majority of users"

        It's not the 'no brain install' - Ubuntu, Mint, and others are dead easy... (pick language, username, password, and time zone. Default all else.)

        It's "already installed because Microsoft bribed us / forced us to deliver only machines with Windows pre-installed".

        Most users choose the monopoly that will control their computer and in Apple's case, their data, because it requires zero effort.

      11. Agamemnon

        Re: Fucking idiots

        I'm no fan of Apple, however I'll parlay with this:

        Apple shit actually works. Apple shit is actually designed to work together. Apple shit isn't user-antagonistic. You buy into the whole eco-system when you use Apple. HOWEVER, it's xNIX under the hood so it'll ultimately do what I effin' Tell it to do.

      12. FordPrefect

        Re: Fucking idiots

        The difference is ios only has a small overall market share. The reason microsoft get a kicking is because they have a monopoly on the desktop OS market. If you have a dominant or monopoly position on one product you cannot use that to attempt to get a monopoly in another market.

      13. DuncanLarge Bronze badge

        Re: Fucking idiots

        "(and no, this still won't usher in the era of desktop Linux. For all the great advances that have been made in the last few years it's still not the no-brain install that Windows is for the vast majority of users)"

        What planet are you on? Most people wanting to try linux will be having to try and install it for a dual boot installation alongside an existing windows install.

        Last time I tried to install windows ALONGSIDE an already instaled linux operating system it decided to NUKE my existing bootloader leaving me with no ability to boot linux nor any way to roll it back. Hardly a no-brain install when you have to go onto the internet to learn how to create a rescue disk that can be used to mount your root partition to run update-grub to get the bootloader back.

        I later solved this problem by giving windows its own drive and PHYSICALLY unplugging any drive I wish to be untouched by the pretentious windows installer. Again hardly no-brain. If it was a no-brain installer for windows it would preserve the existing OS while updating the grub menu.lst to allow you to boot windows. I havnt seen anything like that kind of user freindliness coming out of redmond, ever.

        You are obviously comparing apples to oranges, complaining that the linux install process is flawed when installing alongside an existing windows install (it isnt, that problem went away ages ago) whilst the windows install process is flawless when installing on an empty drive.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Fucking idiots

          Hardly a no-brain install

          I must admit, I'm glad Microsoft have put barriers there.

          You don't want all the Windows users migrating, otherwise it would end up like Windows.

      14. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

        Re: Fucking idiots

        funnily enough people have no problem giving Apple a pass for doing exactly this same shit throughout iOS

        Plenty of us don't "giv[e] Apple a pass". That's one of the reasons I refuse to use Apple products. (Though, really, I didn't need another one. I haven't liked anything to come out of Apple since the //e.)

      15. Steve Renouf
        WTF?

        Re: Fucking idiots

        I'll stick to cross-platform Mozilla thank you very much!

    5. Dan 55 Silver badge

      Re: Fucking idiots

      Well there is a difference, if they hadn't announced it I doubt anyone would have noticed, even so it's the thin end of the wedge.

    6. This post has been deleted by its author

    7. bex

      Re: Fucking idiots

      Microsoft has a history of not listening and shooting themselves in the foot. The Initial release of Vista and Windows 8 show they do the "la la la I'm not listening" fingers in the ears trick.

      1. bombastic bob Silver badge
        FAIL

        Re: Fucking idiots

        from article: "Microsoft’s justification for the change is that Edge is the best, most secure browser on Windows 10."

        HA HA HA { while(1) printf("HA "); } HA HA *cough*!

        (oh, they're SERIOUS?)

        from post: "Microsoft has a history of not listening and shooting themselves in the foot."

        and NOW they're shooting themselves in the GROIN.

    8. Ellipsis
      Big Brother

      Re: Fucking idiots

      The 90s happened; what’s less clear is whether Microsoft actively erases them from its employees’ memories or whether there’s simply nobody left who remembers them…

      (There are notable exceptions such as Raymond Chen and probably a handful of others, but they are unlikely to have much influence over product strategy.)

    9. John Smith 19 Gold badge
      FAIL

      Re: Fucking idiots It's like the 90s never happened.

      There are still (in 2018) places and things that basically fail without Edge (or IE) to run properly.

      Unf**kingbelievable.

    10. ForthIsNotDead Silver badge
      Stop

      Re: Fucking idiots

      It's like the 90s never happened.

      For the pointy-haired MBA-toting millennials that are now in charge at MS, the 90's literally didn't happen, because they were still in nappies when Netscape was suing Microsoft.

      They'll learn.

      Maybe.

      This made me laugh out loud:

      "...Edge is the best, most secure browser on Windows 10."

      Err... Right... Okay then...

    11. Duncan Macdonald Silver badge

      Re: Fucking idiots -AGREED

      I dislike IE and Edge so much that I have used the program control feature of Norton Internet Security to block them from all internet access. I can not stop M$ from putting insecure internet browsers on my PC but I can stop them from being used.

      Any browser that has Adobe Flash is insecure - and M$ has built it in!!!

      (I also use Thunderbird rather than any M$ or browser based email client.)

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Fucking idiots -AGREED

        "I dislike IE and Edge so much that I have used the program control feature of Norton Internet Security to block them" - you still use Norton? Wow, I lived to see this in 2018...

        1. Duncan Macdonald Silver badge

          Re: Fucking idiots -AGREED

          Norton may not be great - however it seems to be about as good as its competition. The first line of defense that I use is NoScript with AdblockPlus. I also use Spybot Search and Destroy.

          If I have to use a site that will not work with these protections then I fire up a VM running Knoppix from a virtual DVD (no HD), access the site from the VM and then shut down the VM. As there is no persistent storage accessible to the VM, any malware on the site is unable to infect the main Windows installation or affect a further use of the VM.

    12. Nick Ryan Silver badge

      Re: Fucking idiots

      Unfortunately the Microsoft marketing drones missed a word in the sentence...

      "...Edge is the best, most secure [Microsoft] browser on Windows 10."

      This is not aiming high.

    13. Oh Homer Silver badge
      Linux

      "Outlook has six per cent"

      That's six percent too many.

      OTOH, I'm not exactly moving with the times myself either. I begrudge using Thunderbird because it feels overengineered and bloated, but it's my "lazy" option. I prefer Claws, which TBH is just as easy to set up. I've been known to use Emacs Gnus on more than one occasion. I'm probably most comfortable with Mutt.

      If the market share for Windows Mail (or whatever name Microsoft has given it this week) is a small fraction of 1%, I dread to think how Thunderbird is faring, and for me that's the "mainstream" option. I'd like to take this opportunity to say "Hi" to the other three people using Mutt.

      Of course, I'm doing it all wrong. What I'm supposed to do is use a web browser as an email client, for the ultimate bloat and lack of configurability.

      No wait, that's not it. What I'm actually supposed to do is chuck my dinosaur PC into a landfill and use a smartphone running GMail, or something.

      Nope, still wrong. Email in 2018 is like using VHS instead of Netflix. What I'm really supposed to do is use FB Messenger, WhatsApp and SnapChat. I have no idea what they are, but they sound utter shit. And, lets face it, in the time it took me to write that sentence those apps are already passé, and all the kiddies have long since moved on to some other pointless fad.

      Back to Mutt, then.

    14. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Don't say, I didn't warn you !!

      Don't say, I didn't warn you about Windows 10!

      Its CEO Satan Nutella is a plain evil actor. No ones wants "his" personal computer to be controlled by the evil overlord, invested with adware and malware - yet Windows 10 is exactly that, users lost full control, yet another Ads ridden DRM ladden appliance leaking private data to the slurping Redmond cloud. (and don't compare it with a cell phone, a PC/notebook is for real data, not for fun) Beside that, Windows 10 and Office2016/365 is beyond ugly, clearly designed by colour blind designers who never used Windows 95 and undid all the UI/UX achievements of the past 30 years. Well done outsourced underpaid south Asian workforce, as dictated by a clueless CEO. In 2001 then-CEO Steve Ballmer called Linux "cancer". We call Microsoft and its slurping sw cloud crap "cancer" nowadays.

      Microsoft *was* not supposed to be an advertiser. Let's hope they get a new CEO that does a 180 degree u-turn, or we see more corps flocking to Google, Apple, Samsung, Sony, Tencent, et al.

  2. Tim Brown 1
    Angel

    Microsoft points gun at own foot and pulls the trigger.

    Nuff said.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      @Tim Brown 1 - Re: Microsoft points gun at own foot and pulls the trigger.

      Yes, but they no longer have any toes left so there's no danger at all.

      1. Rich 11 Silver badge

        Re: @Tim Brown 1 - Microsoft points gun at own foot and pulls the trigger.

        They've just moving on from the phalanges to the metatarsals.

      2. Ellipsis
        Unhappy

        Re: @Tim Brown 1 - Microsoft points gun at own foot and pulls the trigger.

        Yet somehow they manage to stay standing up…

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Microsoft points gun at own foot and pulls the trigger.

      Their applications may not be bullet proof, but it appears their feet are.

  3. Dr. Ellen
    Mushroom

    What? More Windows 10 bumf?

    I don't plan on using Windows 10, but Microsoft plans on my using it. They seem to think they're in charge. Google has redefined "evil". Apple is just as bad, and twice as expensive. I hope Linux doesn't catch the disease ....

    1. Kabukiwookie Bronze badge

      Re: What? More Windows 10 bumf?

      I hope Linux doesn't catch the disease ....

      It already has. Redhat is the only major player for enterprise Linux, and they're busy riding the gravy train.

      Spamming upstream with so much code that they've now come to dominate and dictate the way that (the main) Linux distros are going. Something like systemd, the constant need to refresh RHEL certification are indications that they've moved into the 'IBM of the 90s' phase.

      1. wallaby

        Re: What? More Windows 10 bumf?

        Linux has something worse

        whining penguins (they will make more noise than even the noisiest of case fans)

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: What? More Windows 10 bumf?

          "whining penguins (they will make more noise than even the noisiest of case fans)"

          Um, is the irony of your posts a little lost on you?

  4. Florida1920 Silver badge
    Coat

    Edge is the most-secure browser

    And Microsoft software is renowned for its security.

    The one with the bridge I have for sale in the pocket.

    1. SkippyBing Silver badge

      Re: Edge is the most-secure browser

      'The one with the bridge I have for sale in the pocket.'

      I thought you were just pleased to see me.

    2. Wade Burchette

      Re: Edge is the most-secure browser

      Security through obscurity is not much security at all. So few people use Edge because the UI is confusing and stupid. It just makes more sense for hackers to go after a browser that people use, a logical one with a proper UI like Chrome or Firefox. The advantage of those two browsers is that updates do not require a full restart, and add-ons do not require you to use the Microsoft store.

  5. Andre Carneiro

    Analysis of the email market in 2007?

    Should that be 2017? Because 2007 was 11 years ago and I’m not sure data from there bears any relevance today...

    Anyway, it’s good to see MS holding true to their long standing asshattery. At least you know where you stand with them.

    1. Weiss_von_Nichts

      Re: Analysis of the email market in 2007?

      Relevant as ever. Their built-in browsers and MUAs have been crap then and they are crap today. And constantly crappy inbetween. Right choice to not bother with new surveys, wrong choice to bother with a new browser.

    2. Simon Sharwood, Reg APAC Editor (Written by Reg staff)

      Re: Analysis of the email market in 2007?

      Ooops, yes, typo. Fixing.

    3. Zippy's Sausage Factory

      Re: Analysis of the email market in 2007?

      Anyway, it’s good to see MS holding true to their long standing asshattery. At least you know where you stand with them.

      I'm not sure why but the phrase "bend over, here it comes again" springs to mind...

  6. PhilipN Silver badge

    What took them so long?

    This is MS and it is 2018.

    One, they are going to do it.

    Two, it is just the start.

    Three, MS routinely claims that changes** have been overwhelmingly supported in consultations (at least by those who supported it, and the rest - apostates, all of 'em) do not count).

    Four, MS wants everyone to use Edge exclusively - duh... !

    Five, the only lesson they learnt over 30 years is that the average punter is now savvy enough to squeal when a crap browser is foisted upon him. And - end of civilisation as we know it - flock to a competing browser.

    Six, the timing suggests that even MS realise their new browser was crap but now is not quite so crap, although they are moving forward in what are (for MS) baby steps (so it is still partially crap).

    So what else is new?

    **Oh, a "feature". Of course, Silly me.

  7. Mark 85 Silver badge

    Another walled garden?

    They seem to be following Apple in some ways and in others... not sure where they get their ideas from other than local neighborhood bully. Now if they back issue it IE, then all hell will break loose from both the corporate side and the non-corporate side.

    1. ST Silver badge
      Devil

      Re: Another walled garden?

      More like a walled dumpster if you ask me.

    2. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge
      Childcatcher

      Re: Another walled garden?

      They (MS) seem to be taking the 'Walled Garden' approach to levels that Apple can only dream of and in contract seem like rank amateurs when compared to Microsoft.

      IMHO (and I could be very wrong...) this is all a prelude to moving to a perpetual subscription model for their Operating System.

      "Roll up folks. For only £9.99/month you can get full support from us. Just let us install patches when we want to and to hell with what you are doing with the computer at the time. All in the interests of your personal safety and security you understand."

      Sorry Redmond, I stopped playing your tune in 2016 and I'm not going back.

    3. Orv Silver badge

      Say what you will about Apple, but macOS still lets me have whatever default browser I want.

      1. Dan 55 Silver badge

        The latest few versions of macOS bug you a bit if it's not Safari though.

        1. Maventi

          > The latest few versions of macOS bug you a bit if it's not Safari though.

          That they do, and it's damn annoying. If I wanted to use Safari then I would use it.

      2. Joe Gurman

        And perhaps more to the point....

        If you follow the link to the infographic on email clients, Apple clients (iOs Mail for iPhone and iPad, plus macOS Mail) add up to 46% of all clients. Of course, that doesn't mesh well with the "idiot tax" and general anti-Apple line of El Reg, so the article doesn't mention it. People have voted with their feet, or at least with their thumbs.

      3. jelabarre59 Silver badge

        Say what you will about Apple, but macOS still lets me have whatever default browser I want.

        They may tell you you're clicking it wrong though.

  8. Keef

    And from a recent El Reg article...

    'The fixed bugs include nine remote code execution (RCE) flaws in the Chakra scripting engine in Edge. Microsoft says the scripting bugs (such as CVE-2018-0874) would allow an infected webpage to run code with the logged-in user's clearance level.

    The Edge scripting engine was also the subject of four memory corruption RCE flaws, as well as an information disclosure bug, CVE-2018-0839, that allows an attack page to view objects in memory.'

    No doubt more to come.

    Not saying there aren't flaws in other browsers, but being forced to use one that is both shit and insecure seems like it might annoy a few folk. Hopefully some of those folk are in governments that like to squash anti-competitive behaviour.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: And from a recent El Reg article...

      @Keep: agreed - Edge has an appalling security reputation. Over 60% of all Edge CVEs since it's release are RCE related: https://www.cvedetails.com/product/32367/Microsoft-Edge.html

    2. Law

      Re: And from a recent El Reg article...

      "Not saying there aren't flaws in other browsers"

      You pick your browser and deal with the risk. By ignoring this explicit choice on the users part (remember, edge is default initially), Microsoft is opening the risk of security issues to two browsers on a machine, not just the one the user chooses.

      I'm getting tired of companies making shitty decisions to push their shitty products, then saying it's for my own good. Microsoft aren't the only ones guilty of this, but they are one of the worst offenders.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: And from a recent El Reg article...

        @Law

        To be fair^H^H^H^H honest, this is already the case with Cortana, assuming she is switched on.

        For those who are curious why MS are pushing edge so hard, their internal logic is as follows:

        More Edge users use Bing than other browser users, proportionally. If we increase Edge market share; we increase Bing market share.

        1. Nick Ryan Silver badge

          Re: And from a recent El Reg article...

          More Edge users use Bing than other browser users, proportionally. If we increase Edge market share; we increase Bing market share.

          Well I guess that is easier and quicker than making Bing a better search engine....

      2. jelabarre59 Silver badge

        Re: And from a recent El Reg article...

        You pick your browser and deal with the risk. By ignoring this explicit choice on the users part (remember, edge is default initially), Microsoft is opening the risk of security issues to two browsers on a machine, not just the one the user chooses.

        It's simple; we just find the two or three people in the world actually *using* the Windows Mail client, and hack their installation for them.

    3. Someone Else Silver badge

      @Keef -- Re: And from a recent El Reg article...

      Hopefully some of those folk are in governments that like to squash anti-competitive behaviour.

      In the Drumpf Masturbation...er...Administration??? Shirley, you jest.

  9. Lorribot

    Google have been doing this kind of stuff for years.

    If, like me you are forced to use Hangouts for work, not only are you forced to install Chrome but any links in Hangouts automatically open in Chrome not your choosen default browser because Google knows best.

    But hey, Google do no evil (like store your every move on the internet) so all is good.

    1. EarthDog Bronze badge

      Do the right thing

      Is the new motto. It changes a while back. But they do not mention for who.

      1. 's water music Silver badge

        Re: Do the right thing

        ...for who.

        It's with whom I live not who I live with

        1. ChrisC

          Re: Do the right thing

          "It's with whom I live not who I live with"

          Ah, so it was you I saw leaving my Aunt's house the other day...

          1. 's water music Silver badge

            Re: Do the right thing

            "It's with whom I live not who I live with"

            Ah, so it was you I saw leaving my Aunt's house the other day...

            I am feeding the South Sea Bubble whilst Auntieis on her hollibobs

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      If, like me you are forced to use Hangouts for work, not only are you forced to install Chrome but any links in Hangouts automatically open in Chrome not your choosen default browser because Google knows best.

      I am not sure which world you live in. Hangouts by default is a web app / website, so you can still use other browser to open Hangouts, meaning you are not really forced to install Google Chrome at all. Hangouts just opens whatever link you click on whatever browser you are currently opening in.

      If you however use the Hangouts app, clicking on links will make your device ask/ or open the default browser you have set in your mobile device. If you don't have the google chrome app at all, it won't open the link in google chrome.

      If you got Hangouts through Google chrome app store, well it should be obvious why Hangouts would then open all links in google chrome.

      This post is not trying to say Google don't do "this kind of stuff for years", but they do it differently and not the way you've said (google chrome defaults to gmail sign in page, google.com recommend installing google chrome, gmail has quick app icons with Hangouts, etc.).

      1. Orv Silver badge

        Chrome apps

        I wrote a Chrome packaged web app, and interestingly enough clicking a link in it opened the user's default browser. In fact, there was no way to bypass that behavior. There was actually a debate over whether there should be an API for opening a link in Chrome specifically, and they decided against it.

        Mind you, now that packaged web apps are no longer supported on anything but Chromebooks, it's a bit of a moot point. ;)

      2. Def Silver badge

        Hangouts by default is a web app / website, so you can still use other browser to open Hangouts, meaning you are not really forced to install Google Chrome at all.

        Except that's really not true.

        Hangouts doesn't work in Firefox on Windows or MacOS. It certainly doesn't work in Edge. I think I did manage to get it to work in Internet Explorer after I disabled a bunch of security settings. (I may have got those last two mixed up - either way it requires some plugin to be installed first.) It doesn't work in Edge on Windows 10 Mobile because they incorrectly identify it as Windows Phone 8.1.

        It works in Safari on Mac OS, which is the only browser/OS combination I managed to get working reliably without Chrome.

        I'm pretty sure I tried another browser when trying to get it working in Windows too, but I can't remember which.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Hangouts works on every browser I tried. I use hangouts daily and don't use Chrome. I really have no idea who invented this distraction story that has no basis in reality. It did the trick however I guess. Nobody is talking about naughty Microsoft...

          1. JohnFen Silver badge

            Hangouts doesn't work properly in any browser I've tried. It is easily the worst such application on the market.

        2. tiggity Silver badge

          It works fine for me on (old) Firefox

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "If, like me you are forced to use Hangouts for work"

      Fortunately that's only about 6% of us and falling. O365 seems to be overwhelmingly winning that battle.

    4. tiggity Silver badge

      @ Lorribot

      Hangouts work in non Chrome browsers e.g. FireFox (not sure about newer versions as I'm running on old version that still supports my add ons taht will not work on new "improved" Firefox)

      Chrome is liked by some workplaces as easier to globally" administrate as some tools in place for corporate management, maybe that's why its forced on you? .. Though such sysadmin support is coming to Firefox apparently

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      You're talking out your well-fucked arse.

      Another Firefox user here - and I've never had any issues with Google's things (in terms of browser compatibility). That's one thing they're good at.

    6. Anonymous Bullard
      WTF?

      forced to install Chrome

      I'm surprised to hear that - I wasn't forced to install anything. Google are normally good with cross-browser support (for FF, at least).

      I can't say I've tried anything with Edge (apart from mozilla.org), so YMMV.

      Mind you, not many people do test their sites with Edge...

      1. It's not available on the OS that the majority of developers use.

      2. It's effectively in the "other" category.

      3. IE (upon which Edge is based) is historically developer unfriendly in general.

      I'm all for choice in browsers, however for those of us who remember the original browser wars don't want Microsoft dominance again. For those too young, Microsoft is irrelevant.

      This current stunt, and the hoops you need to jump through in order to switch browsers, has a very bad smell.

      1. Def Silver badge

        For everyone who thinks Hangouts works in Firefox, even Google admits it only works in Firefox ESR:

        https://support.google.com/hangouts/answer/7334146?p=hangouts_firefox&hl=en-GB&rd=1

        Edge requires a plugin to work, but it doesn't install correctly. (Basically the installer never finishes, and refreshing the page just redirects you to the plugin install page. It's possible I need to enable Flash, but that's never going to happen.)

        Internet Explorer works out the box (maybe because I got it working before), but you have to enable SSL 3 these days otherwise it says it can't connect.

        Downvote me all you want, but at the end of the day if you haven't tried it for yourself, you're full of shit. (Which given that this is the Internet, is entirely likely.)

  10. Weiss_von_Nichts

    Perfect timing

    Just when I considered giving the MS mail app a try on my (only) Windows machine...

    Actually everything here is strictly Linux except one machine: That Lenovo X1 Carbon I use for music production and performance. I jused to read mail on my mobile when I'm out of house with my Windows laptop, because I have never seen anything communications related that Microsoft would not completely fuck up. Having heard nothing specifically awful about W10s mail app, I almost thought I might give it a shot. I guess I'll give Apple a one, next time. I absolutely hate them, but they can't be even worse than Windows 10. Nothing could.

    1. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

      Re: Perfect timing

      Thunderbird [1] runs fine on MacOS. I never us the Mac Mail app and only use Safari for one site that still insists in using Flash for videos.

      [1] Other email apps do as well.

    2. Dan 55 Silver badge

      Re: Perfect timing

      I don't know who would seriously consider Windows 10's Mail app. It's a TIFKAM app, where does it store the local mailbox and in what format if you want to take an archive copy?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: I don't know who would seriously consider Windows 10's Mail app

        I'm pretty sure I know who - MOST W10 users. Because it is there, because MS told them it's the bestest, and I bet you, a large chunk of its users applaud, because this abortion of an e-mail client (I hear), displays some funky-pretty-swirly icon while opening (sorry, don't know, don't and won't run W10).

      2. Terry 6 Silver badge

        Re: Perfect timing

        The Windows Mail App and calendar app are so shitty they beggar belief. I'm sort of tied into these on one home machine, at least until I have time and not too may events, and can switch because I started to use them to see what they were like compared to Outlook, because Thunderbird just isn't great with calendar integration and functionality.. Somehow, though the calendar app contain two versions of the account. One shares events with proper Outlook. One doesn't ( It'll import from Outlook, but not export to it). There doesn't seem to be any easy way to tell which is which. But once you start getting appointments in the wrong one it gets hard to go back. Someone got paid for writing that shit.

    3. dylan.myers

      Re: Perfect timing

      Edge issue aside, it's actually a rally handy program. It's lightweight and fast because they took a bunch of unused features out. I use it because outlook feels so sluggish to me.

      For now I'm happy to resort to copying and pasting a link into my browser to avoid Edge.

    4. Daniel 18

      Re: Perfect timing

      "Having heard nothing specifically awful about W10s mail app, I almost thought I might give it a shot. I guess I'll give Apple a one, next time. I absolutely hate them, but they can't be even worse than Windows 10. Nothing could."

      Why not Thunderbird, which runs on Windows, MacOS, and Linux? It's been reliable for me for the last ten or more years, on both Windows and Linux, and has an extension for secure email.

  11. Number6

    Saved by the mail app

    I'm not sure I've ever fired up the Windows mail app, so I guess it's a change I wouldn't even be aware of if not for articles such as this. I locked down Windows apps by default, restricting what they could do on the machine in an attempt to impose some level of security.

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    links clicked on within the Windows Mail app will open in Microsoft Edge

    I don't think people using windows mail have any preference for an easy to use mailer, so they probably don't care about their browser as well.

  13. Oengus Silver badge

    Popcorn

    I wonder how long before the legislators take an interest in this policy... Haven't Microshaft already been hauled over the coals for similar practices with choice of browser?

    Time to buy shares in popcorn producers...

    1. MrXavia

      Re: Popcorn

      Well if you search on the task bar or in Cortana you have bing and edge, you have no choice... I would much rather they force ms to use the default browser first than worry about a hardly used mail app

      1. JohnFen Silver badge

        Re: Popcorn

        I solve that problem by disabling cortana and not searching from the task bar (do people really do that? That search facility is awful!)

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Microsoft’s business models require stealing and reselling personal data.

    ....."When we talk about why we're upgrading the Windows 10 install base, why is that upgrade free? MS CFO asked during a meeting with Wall Street analysts. These are all new monetization opportunities once a PC is sold. Microsoft's strategy is to go low on consumer Windows licenses, hoping that that will boost device sales, which will in turn add to the pool of potential customers for 'Advertising'".....

    ....."CEO Nadella has referred to the customer revenue potential as 'lifetime value' in the past -- and did so again last week during the same meeting with Wall Street -- hinting at Microsoft's strategy to make more on the back end of the PC acquisition process. The more customers, the more money those customers will bring in as they view 'Ads'".....

    https://www.computerworld.com/article/2917799/microsoft-windows/microsoft-fleshes-out-windows-as-a-service-revenue-strategy.html

  15. Adrian 4 Silver badge

    So ?

    Does anyone even care what Microsoft does any more ?

    The only people left on the platform are unthinking cattle.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: So ?

      It seems that the 'pro MS trolls' are out in force today. The obviously love downvoting any post critical of MS.

      Makes for good entertainment on this cold and snowy morning.

      Have I not got work to go to? Not with 2-3ft drifts between here and the main road. Still it might thaw later today. The same can't be said for the way MS is ******g over its users on an almost daily basis.

      1. Peter2 Silver badge

        Re: So ?

        "It seems that the 'pro MS trolls' are out in force today. The obviously love downvoting any post critical of MS."

        It's monday morning and the IT Professionals are back reading El Reg. Your getting quite a lot of downvotes because of things that are obvious to us, such as that business software programs for millions of obscure business processes that most people will never even hear of run exclusively on Windows.

        The entire point of IT is to run more efficiently (ie, requiring less man hours) then manual processes as it costs less to automate than not. Nobody working in IT particually likes Microsoft, especially those of us who have been suffering their software for longer than some younger commentators have been alive. I would in fact hazard a guess that the older generations of IT Professionals hate shoddy, ill functional software as much as they hate ignorant comments.

        1. Adrian 4 Silver badge

          Re: So ?

          I don't know if I've been in IT for longer than you, but I've been in IT for longer than Bill Gates.

          No software runs exclusively on Windows. Alan Turing wrote proof of that. The only issue is whether the cost of migration between runtime platforms is greater than the cost of staying.

          Microsoft became a profitable company by ensuring that people perceived that cost not to be worthwhile. It increasingly seems to be the case that they want to prove the opposite.

          I don't predict a rosy future for them.

          1. Orv Silver badge

            Re: So ?

            No software runs exclusively on Windows. Alan Turing wrote proof of that. The only issue is whether the cost of migration between runtime platforms is greater than the cost of staying.

            It's a little more complicated than that, because runtime platforms aren't all created alike. For example, some game developers have abandoned macOS because Apple's 3D acceleration APIs have fallen behind (for example, they don't support OpenGL 4.3.) This leaves them the choice of either crippling the other platforms in order to dumb them down to macOS's level, writing a lot of duplicate code in order to support a macOS version of the game that will never perform well, or dropping macOS support.

      2. JohnFen Silver badge

        Re: So ?

        I am as anti-Microsoft as they come, but I downvoted that comment for its extreme ignorance. Lots of people use Windows because they don't have the choice of using anything else. Those people are not unthinking cattle, they are victims of the decisions of their employers.

    2. Orv Silver badge

      Re: So ?

      That's an odd way to spell "gamers."

      1. Adrian 4 Silver badge

        Re: So ?

        @orv

        Ha, you crack me up.

        'Gamers' is spelt 'milch cow'.

    3. hplasm Silver badge
      Gimp

      Re: So ?

      "The only people left on the platform are unthinking cattle."

      And the odd noisy marsupial with a chip in its pouch. --->

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: So ?

      "The only people left on the platform are unthinking cattle."

      Yes, all 1.3 billion of them?!

      1. Adrian 4 Silver badge

        Re: So ?

        1.3 billion ? that's the proof, not a counter-argument.

        The important thing about cattle is that there are lots of them and they all do exactly what you expect. From the day the bull services their mother until the day they're worth less alive than dead.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: So ?

          "The important thing about cattle is that there are lots of them and they all do exactly what you expect."

          No, you are confusing cattle with sheep. Cattle are quite unpredictable.

          1. Mage Silver badge

            Re: So ?

            Cows are dangerous.

            1. Adrian 4 Silver badge

              Re: So ?

              @Mage

              Yes, like the Brexit and Trump voters.

              But not in their own interest. It's either accidental (heavy animal doesn't notice mouse as he treads on it) or being led by forces they don't see (herded into mass movement).

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: all 1.3 billion of them?!

        1.3 of unthinking cattle can not be wrong!

        1. Adrian 4 Silver badge

          Re: all 1.3 billion of them?!

          They can't *think* wrong, that's for sure.

        2. Someone Else Silver badge
          WTF?

          Re: all 1.3 billion of them?!

          1.3 of unthinking cattle can not be wrong!

          Not too sure about that 1/3 of a cow, though....

    5. MrXavia

      Re: So ?

      "The only people left on the platform are unthinking cattle."

      Errr no..

      Windows is the only choice for many, some software just isn't available for Linux or Mac. Not all hardware is fully supported in Linux...

      Personally I have Windows 10 (pro version), it is not the worst Windows ever, although I do have a fear that an update will cripple my PC at some point, or remove a feature I use... I've had that happen with Android apps in the past....

      1. Adrian 4 Silver badge

        Re: So ?

        MrXavia,

        If you can only go where your suppliers lead you, then you're not exercising choice or asserting your own needs. You're just being milked.

        You might be happy with that. I'm not.

        If you can't get the software you want on the platform you want to use, write it. If your skill is in other fields than writing software, commission someone else to do it. How do you think that software got written in the first place ? Did it descend from heaven ?

        Don't just sit there chewing the cud and waiting in blissful innocence for the knacker. Take control of your life.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: So ?

          Adrian4,

          I take it this is some form of 'Troll' !!! ???

          In the real world:

          You cannot *just* sit down and write the software you need on the platform you need without there being some *cost*. (Time, People, Money etc)

          Most companies do not have unlimited funds to spend on Software Development, particularly if Software Development is a new experience for them and therefore actual costs are likely to be somewhat different to the 'Original Estimate'.

          Considering the number of Projects that fail when initiated by companies that supposedly know what they are doing, guess how many would fail when every 'Toma/Roch/Harriet' tries to write or even commission their own specific software for their business.

          At the small end of the market, most companies have difficulty describing exactly what they do in sufficient detail to allow such software to be written, which is why standard packages are used 'allowing' the creation of their 'own' process to perform their business (usually by Trial & Error at some previous point in time.)

          Some larger companies may have a chance but the rest are just throwing money down the drain to get an almost working solution that is expensive to maintain.

          Makes no sense .........unless you are a Freelance Software Developer selling the Nirvana of Bespoke Software to attact more clients. !!! :)

      2. jelabarre59 Silver badge

        Re: So ?

        Windows is the only choice for many, some software just isn't available for Linux or Mac. Not all hardware is fully supported in Linux...

        So because **some** software doesn't run under Linux or MacOS, then you say NO ONE should be running Linux or MacOS? If your business needs require an application that *only* runs under MSWin, then by all means you should be running MSWin (and BTW: I count any MSWin application that runs adequately under Wine/Crossover as "running under Linux"). But the vast majority of users could get by just fine with Firefox/Google Chrome, LibreOffice, VLC, Gimp, Inkscape, Pidgin, etc, and these run just as well or better under Linux (and probably run fine with the fruity bunch too).

      3. grumpy-old-person

        Re: So ?

        Try some of the elderly HP laser printers in Windows 10 and grind your teeth when you discover that suddenly they are not supported.

        They all work on Linux!

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Obligatory Linux is best post

    Thought I'd be the first... I hate Windows so much I switched to Linux, and life is a dream, you all should learn from me, Go Linux!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Obligatory Linux is best post

      Tell me oh wise one so I can learn from your masterful wisdom, Does Edge work on Linux?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Obligatory Linux is best post

        No, but neither does Windows Mail, so no problem here.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Obligatory Linux is best post

        "Does Edge work on Linux?"

        Only if you run Ubuntu from the Windows App Store!

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Obligatory Linux is best post

        Does Edge work on Linux?

        It works exactly as well as I need it to.

      4. jelabarre59 Silver badge

        Re: Obligatory Linux is best post

        Tell me oh wise one so I can learn from your masterful wisdom, Does Edge work on Linux?

        Actually, the UWP runtime could probably be easily ported to Linux. Even people at Microsoft have hinted at such. MS is probably just afraid it would run *better*.

  17. Hot Diggity

    That will be an improvement

    My work PC runs Windows 10. Every time I reboot it, it switches the default browser back to IE. I've tried many suggestions to fix it, but none of them work.

    I now have the Settings start on boot so that I can change the default browser back to my preferred as soon as it comes up.

    Windows 7 was quite good and I didn't have any complaint with that one. Windows 10 is just horrible. Linux Mint which I use at on my personal laptop just works the way I want it to and if I could use it as the base OS on my desktop at work, I would.

    1. beep54

      Re: That will be an improvement

      Turns out that you can actually get rid of IE using Programs and Features in Windows 10. Not Edge, of course, but this might help with your problem.

      1. Hot Diggity

        Re: That will be an improvement

        Thanks for that. I would except that certain internal applications *only* work with IE. Sigh.

    2. Phil Kingston Silver badge

      Re: That will be an improvement

      Usually caused by another piece of software incorrectly editing the default file associations, so Windows reverts them to out-the-box defaults.

    3. Def Silver badge

      Re: That will be an improvement

      Or maybe your network admins have set a domain setting that forces IE as your browser. Or some corporate spyware is doing it.

      I doubt you can blame Windows/Microsoft for something that only happens to you. ;)

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: That will be an improvement

        "I doubt you can blame Windows/Microsoft for something that only happens to you. ;)"

        I'm not so sure. My Win10 at home does this weird thing that apparently only I have noticed:

        Start > Run > mstsc, type a hostname, press enter. The credentials box comes up, without keyboard focus, and the only way to get focus into the username/password boxes is with the mouse. Tab doesn't work, Alt + CHAR doesn't work. I assume this is a weird thing happening on my install rather than everyone's - surely others would be moaning at the shocking UI design otherwise?

        This is just a straight-up install of Win10 LTSB. But I never had this rubbish with Win7, so I will take the option of blaming Windows 10 for it.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: That will be an improvement

          "This is just a straight-up install of Win10 LTSB."

          The LTSB is meant only for kiosks, medical devices, etc. And very specificallly not for anything that runs Office. Most places should chose CBB.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: That will be an improvement

          >>I assume this is a weird thing happening on my install rather than everyone's - surely others would be moaning at the shocking UI design otherwise?

          >>This is just a straight-up install of Win10 LTSB.

          Thats probably your issue - LTSB is not for general use and only gets updated every 2 years! Try a normal build.

          1. Dan 55 Silver badge

            Re: That will be an improvement

            Security updates arrive monthly on LTSB and it seems an eminently sensible way of avoiding most of the TIFKAM crap.

      2. Hot Diggity

        Re: That will be an improvement

        None of my colleagues are affected. One of the network admins must have taken a dislike to me :-(

    4. Timmy B Silver badge

      Re: That will be an improvement

      "My work PC runs Windows 10. Every time I reboot it, it switches the default browser back to IE"

      I'm detecting a group policy there.

  18. JeffyPoooh Silver badge
    Pint

    None at all!

    "...links clicked on within the Windows Mail app will open in Microsoft Edge..."

    This will have as much impact as if email addresses clicked on within Microsoft Edge would open in the Windows Mail app. i.e. None at all!

    MISTER PROSSER: Have you any idea how much damage that bulldozer would suffer if I just let it roll straight over you?

    ARTHUR DENT: How much?

    MISTER PROSSER: None at all!

  19. Winkypop Silver badge
    Facepalm

    Close to the edge

    ..... In this case: NO .......

    1. tiggity Silver badge

      Re: Close to the edge

      Up vote for Yes reference

  20. MacroRodent Silver badge

    Testing waters

    About "this change won’t have a massive effect because Windows Mail isn’t a big deal. ": Of course it isn't - yet. This is a trial balloon. The change will start affecting other parts of Windows 10, if Redmont does not see too much outcry. Boiling the frog, and all that.

    1. brotherelf

      Re: Testing waters

      It's actually the second one – if you use the spotlight screen saver and ever click on the trivia teaser, you'll be taken to the edge.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Testing waters

        "It's actually the second one"

        Not to mention Cortana. A slippery slope this is.

      2. LosD

        Re: Testing waters

        Not even close to being new. They did this in various versions of MSN as well, which must predate this... 10 years or so?

        1. WallMeerkat Bronze badge

          Re: Testing waters

          Anyone remember MSN Browser?

          It only seemed to be available on Windows ME or certain builds of 2000, and disappeared as quickly as it appeared.

  21. Piro

    Hah! Just try it. I'm on LTSB, it doesn't even have Edge.

  22. Ken Moorhouse Silver badge

    In other news...

    Vladimir Putin wins election.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: In other news...

      Yes but he's not a browser or is that what they want you to think?

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: In other news...

      Vladimir Putin wins election.

      This is as far as I would take it, based on what I have read, so far.

      'Election' is based on far too many assumptions that are difficult to *verify* just now !!!

      :) ;)

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: In other news...

        "Vladimir Putin wins election.

        This is as far as I would take it, based on what I have read, so far.

        'Election' is based on far too many assumptions that are difficult to *verify* just now !!!

        :) ;)"

        Привет (Hi),

        Спасибо (Thank you) <Doff Cap> ......... to the russian who downvoted me !!!

        At last we have proof that you are here !!! :)

        [As if we needed it :) :) :) ]

  23. Ray Merrall

    Just bought a new desktop with Windows 10, the good points, it was cheap and it was quick delivered. Now the bad, 10 is shit masquerading as an o/s. Most of my crucial programs work on Windows and I really do not have the time or inclination to learn Linux or play with all the different flavours. I have an aversion to Apple and mac o/s - see comment on crucial programs, and somebody once telling me that no one could hack mac o/s. (maybe true, but, I don't believe it)

    I had to go through at least 3 pop-ups telling me edge is the best thing on the planet, more saying that Cortana is my fantasy female, that office is a good tool to use and goodness only knows what else. Everything seems geared to me paying a revenue flow to Redmond, which just makes me remember why I hate jumped up acc*ntants and bean counters trying to massage profits through areas of marketing they know little about, but can see $ and £ signs flashing in front of their eyes while potential bonuses flood into their respective bank accounts before they piss off somewhere else to wash and rinse the process, and the company collapses because nobody will now buy any product from them. .

    1. MonkeyCee Silver badge

      21st C computing

      "Most of my crucial programs work on Windows and I really do not have the time or inclination to learn Linux or play with all the different flavours. I have an aversion to Apple and mac o/s"

      I'm sorry to say, but you've got to bite the bullet on this. There no longer is a version of Windows that works and is supported and is suitable for use as your main OS. If you have programs that you rely on that work in Win 7 (or whichever flavour) then the only way I've found to get reliable performance is to run them in a VM.

      At that point, running linux or a Mac as the main OS is a much better bet. You've got to learn a "new" OS anyway, so move to a saner environment. VM windows is actually quite pleasant to work with, since it doesn't have to do any of that awkward dealing with hardware stuff, and can be rebooted pretty quick whenever it needs a wee kicking.

      Personally I prefer a Mac to linux box, if only because it's possible to find someone to fix it if I don't have the time myself. Linux techs tend to be either crap and cheap, or good and very expensive. Mac techs can often be found in the mid range.

      The main problem with Apple kit is a) the fanbois and b) people who assume you are a fanboi for owning one. I'm fairly company agnostic, so I find it interesting what reasons people come up with to justify hating Apple, especially when it's clear they haven't touched a Mac for a few decades. Apple also appears to have stolen a lot of MS techs girlfriend's, run over their dogs and TP their house based on the hate it gets :)

      1. tiggity Silver badge

        Re: 21st C computing

        @MonkeyCee

        OH uses Mac, MS provide Office for Mac if that is "crucial" software you need

        If its graphics then Adobe stuff such as PhotoShop, illustrator etc on Mac.

        So plenty of commonly used business software not just on windows

        And, of course, VMs..

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      I really do not have the time or inclination to learn Linux

      Then stop complaining how shit Windows is, and suck it up princess.

      If you're not prepared to do anything about the mess, then you can't expect anyone else to do it for you.

  24. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Dear MS

    I have SOOOO tried to like Win10.

    Honestly, I have.

    But I cant. I mean, its just shit. Nothing is where it *should* be. The "start menu" is a huge oxymoron.

    Even the guy who writes "Classic Shell" has pulled out because of the fuckwits at MS changing stuff for the sake of it.

    No, I'm sorry MS. You failed. You failed to listen to your customers, you failed to act on feedback, you just failed. AGAIN...

    What is the saying about not learning from your mistakes, only to be doomed to make them again??

  25. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    When the software is free you are the browser.

    1. Adrian 4 Silver badge

      It's not free.

      You pay for bad software with your productivity.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        If the software is free then how can you complain when it forces you to use it's own browser rather another free browser?

        Sarcasm aside from my other post, can someone answer this intriguing question?

        1. David Nash Silver badge

          "If the software is free then how can you complain when it forces you to use it's own browser rather another free browser?"

          I'm in two minds about whether they should be doing this, but Win10 isn't free. You either buy it as a retail package or pay for it inclusive of your new PC cost, or paid for Win7 which was "upgraded" with no additional fee (but you had to have a valid Win 7 install, which was not free).

        2. Updraft102 Silver badge

          If the software is free then how can you complain when it forces you to use it's own browser rather another free browser?

          Well, it wasn't free, as someone else has already explained. Even if it was free, though, that has nothing to do with its suitability as an operating system. An OS needs to serve the user, and how it serves that user is also up to the user. If it fails that, it's not fit for purpose, even for free.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Good luck friends, it is and still is free if you know where to look, besides how do you prove it wasn't?

            I asked a simple question, opinions on which operating system is better/more free/not raping your privacy don't count.

            1. JohnFen Silver badge

              So where do we look for this truly free Windows 10 of which you speak?

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                On the back

                of any OEM pc running windows 7.

                Better if its Pro win 7.

                *There is your key for windows 10. Pro if the win 7 key was a Pro version.

                Done.

                Next please.

                *Honestly, don't. It's truly fucking terrible is Win10.

                1. JohnFen Silver badge

                  Re: On the back

                  Still not free. True, you aren't paying cash money -- but you are paying in other ways. Windows 10 is expensive.

                  I object to the notion that just because you aren't paying for something with money then you aren't paying for it. If it's costing you something (even if that something isn't money), then it isn't "free".

    2. JohnFen Silver badge

      "When the software is free"

      WIndows 10, Edge, Mail, etc. are nothing close to free.

  26. timecop1818

    I've honestly tried to use Edge a few months back after clean reinstall

    But they're complete lack of keyboard hotkeys in menus - I'm not talking things like ctrl+s to save but access keys like being able to right click and press "s" (for example) to save an image. Usually signified by underline in the menu item text, tho that visual has been set to off by default since a while back.

    1. Someone Else Silver badge

      Re: I've honestly tried to use Edge a few months back after clean reinstall

      Usually signified by underline in the menu item text, tho that visual has been set to off by default since a while back.

      Underlines in menus are soooo anti-Millennial!

  27. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Just one more reason why they should be sued

    Microsucks has compromised security and productivity world wide with their defective OSs and software yet they have never been held accountable. Instead they reap fortunes from selling defective goods. It's outrageous and unacceptable. Now they want to force people to use Win10 and Edge.

  28. J J Carter Silver badge
    Trollface

    Classic.

    LOL, MSFT loves to wind-up the haters!

  29. TheGreatCabbage

    I really like the Windows Mail app, but I probably won't any more if they push this into the next major update.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Maybe if Mail worked, this would be an issue.

      I spent the whole afternoon yesterday trying to make my sister's Windows 10 to send email using Mail, through my hMailServer, via SSL. IMAP works, but SMTP doesn't - without returning any error - albeit the error reporting in Mail is so luser-oriented it would not be much useful.

      Looking at traffic with Wireshark, it does begin the SSL handshake, but then Mail sends an RST. On the server side, the server complains about a "short read" - so something must be wrong in the data. No problems using Thunderbird, Windows Live Mail, Windows 8 Mail and RoundCube with the same server, using the same settings. The fact they dumbed down the client configuration doesn't help either.

      Just my sister likes the mail notifications it gets from Mail - and Thunderbird UI would need a good redesign.

      It looks not so few people have issues using servers which aren't outlook.com or gmail. The best answer found so far is in this thread: https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/apps_windows_10-outlook_mail-winpc/windows-10-mail-app-email-stuck-in-outbox/5574d879-0d0d-4cb5-888f-48b3358236a9, look for "EdwinSleepDoc".

      1. TheGreatCabbage

        I do use Gmail, so for me Windows Mail can be set up in 30 seconds. I imagine it must be a bit frustrating with other providers, though.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          "I imagine it must be a bit frustrating with other providers, though."

          And you wonder why - it's a matter of setting user, password, and server/port.

          Just, the GUI attempts to hide server settings, as if they could scare children, and if it's "synchonizing" you can't access them. Evidently, whoever wrote it doesn't know how to stop a running thread, and restart its operations. Then it uses non standard settings, like the added :n after the server port, which is barely documented. Its certificate management is appalling too - especially since it can't tell you what "problems" it has with a certificate, nor show the certificate to check it - so you can accept it blindly only.

          I don't know what intern was tasked to write it, but it's a good example about how an application should not be developed. And they want to cage people into Windows S so you can only install this crap from the store?

  30. J J Carter Silver badge
    Boffin

    From the desk of /dev/null

    If politicians were OS, The Donald would be dodgy Windows 10 and Hillary would be lovely Linux. Mayhem would be Windows ME

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: From the desk of /dev/null

      Hillary would be lovely Linux.

      More like WinXP. Insecure, past it's best, and not really liked or trusted enough for serious work any more.

    2. jelabarre59 Silver badge

      Re: From the desk of /dev/null

      If politicians were OS, The Donald would be dodgy Windows 10 and Hillary would be lovely Linux. Mayhem would be Windows ME

      No, Linux would be Gary Johnson. Hillary would be MacOS9. But yes on Trump/MSW10.

  31. HKmk23

    Microsoft reminds me of lemmings

    I have turned off windows update (I wait until the dust has settled on all "new" updates before turning it back on for an hour). But this communist ideology inspired concept of shoving the overlords ideas down our throats is fast becoming the last straw. I am seriously considering keeping two "sneakernet" pcs off the internet to run those windows programs I cannot do without and running a Linux variant for internet only. And I started with Windows 3.0!.......well done microsoft!

  32. Blofeld's Cat
    Devil

    Hmm ...

    I must be getting old, as I can remember when the OS just sat unobtrusively in the background and got on with running stuff.

    Those were the days when if the program* you were developing didn't work, you had generally messed something up yourself, rather than been undermined by some apparently unrelated overnight update.

    * Not "app", "widget" or whatever

  33. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Aren't they already doing this?

    Start menu searches seem to be fed to bing via edge browser, despite neither of these being my default settings.

    Perhaps it time to wake the EU up again that Microsoft are playing product tying games again. If I were playing Microsoft bingo, I would have pretty much a full house.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-competitive_practices#types

  34. Dwarf Silver badge

    Its not forcing me to do anything

    Because I don't do Windows, got bored of playing their game a couple of years ago. I opened the windows, looked outside and realised its easier on the other side.

    When are MS going to realise that they don't know best.

  35. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    EU Browser wars ROUND 2

    So Microsoft want to pay the EU more money for forcing people to use their crappy browser.

    they were fined $732 million in 2013 for failing to comply with the earlier enforcement action

    or do they hope the EU have other issues at the moment and wont notice.

    Ill just keep using Outlook with its own mail hadling failings (IMAP support is shit) but just waiting until Outlook gets "improvement updates" to default to Edge as well after they feel the water with the consumer products. luckily its on premis rather than 365 so I can block the updates.

  36. David Roberts Silver badge
    WTF?

    Windows Live Mail?

    "in 2017 found Windows Live Mail had one per cent market share"

    What has this to do with the Mail app in W10?

    WLM has been abandonware for years now and difficult to get hold of. I haven't spent much time on trying it out on W10 (upgrade from W8.1) but it didn't seem happy.

    Still running it under W7 and W8.1 because it reminds me of Outlook Express and I like the user interface.

    Thunderbird is my emailer of choice on socially supported W10 systems for friends.

  37. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    If you are really getting annoyed with Windows 10, put the past behind you and actually give the Mac a fair chance (If the software you need can run on it). If Windows 10 is that bad pay the premium not to use it.

    MacOS is actually awesome to use once you get use to it, with my only gripe being the file manager could do with a major overall.

    Only way Microsoft will listen is if you hit them where it hurts, them losing usage share. I use to be an Apple hater but i really do find MacOS a better product to use than Windows now, and the trackpads on these Macbooks are beyond awesome. just wish i had given them chance earlier.

    Up to 16 Virtual desktops, high DPI scaling that works, apps remembering which monitor they were open on when i plug my external display in, very little nag, a control panel that makes sense, texting and calling of my Mac integrated with my iPhone, and the gestures on the trackpad to name but a few things i really like.

    1. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge
      Happy

      Re: MacOS

      MacOS is actually awesome to use once you get use to it, with my only gripe being the file manager could do with a major overal

      Agreed 1000000%.

      However there are replacements out there that will make 'finder' pretty well redundant.

    2. Charles 9 Silver badge

      "If the software you need can run on it"

      So what happens when the software you MUST run for your job (no substitutes available, surprisingly common, and NOT WINE-friendly) is ONLY available on Windows (and perhaps eventually ONLY Windows X), then what?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Windows partition and dual boot on the Mac.

        The Windows need not be Win 10, and might not even be licensed.

        Essentially, your Windows partition is like a 'dedicated' Windows games emulator for your Mac. All your web browsing, productivity etc happens on OSX.

        And for modern games, Steam on Mac takes care of that.

        I get what you mean. I love legacy games too, and some weren't ported to OSX.

      2. Adrian 4 Silver badge

        If you believe in the free market, then vote with your feet. Use another product, even if it hurts you, and encourage others to do the same. The justification is the long term : escaping lock-in is always cheaper. Monopoly is anathema and not sustainable.

        Eventually the original vendor will follow you, or another vendor will sell what you want. That's how the market works. It might not be easy, but it's the long-term view.

        1. Charles 9 Silver badge

          "That's how the market works. It might not be easy, but it's the long-term view."

          But the market never really works that way. There are always distortions because humans are driven by emotion first, logic second (just observe any catastrophe). Put it this way. Why isn't the market moving as quickly as it should in response to monopoly actions? Where are all the Linux ports and so on?

          1. Charles 9 Silver badge

            PS. Thumbing me down doesn't make it less true unless you can PROVE me wrong.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      If Macs could read/write to NTFS partitions natively without needing a third party solution

      The number of Windows to OSX converts would skyrocket.

      If you're already stuck in the Windows 10 quagmire (such as yours truly), minimize your exposure to Microsoft's products and services. That means not using Microsoft's browsers, Bing, Onedrive, Outlook (Hotmail), Skype, Office 365.

      And use a local account, not a Microsoft account. Avoid the Microsoft app store.

      Anyhow, the schism between Macs and Windows PCs has been mostly resolved long ago, when Macs switched from PowerPC chips to Intel chips.

      A Mac is something I will seriously consider in future. The major bugbear would be gaming, but most modern games are crappy products that fleece you through microtransactions. The games I really love to play are the ones from 1980s to mid-2000s, with a few strategy games published this decade. A Windows partition could take care of this problem. Steam on Mac takes care of most modern games.

      1. WallMeerkat Bronze badge

        Re: If Macs could read/write to NTFS partitions natively without needing a third party solution

        I find I have a "dark ages" in my gaming collection from the late 90s, Glide games designed for the likes of Windows 98 that just won't work properly on modern 64 bit windows, nor on a VM.

        1. Charles 9 Silver badge

          Re: If Macs could read/write to NTFS partitions natively without needing a third party solution

          Have you tried DOSBox? I've managed to get the 3dfx version of Carmageddon to work on it via a Flide-ti-OpenGL emulation layer. Now, if they can find a way to get the S3 ViRGE version of Terminal Velocity to work...

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      'MacOS is actually awesome to use once you get use to it, with my only gripe being the file manager could do with a major overall.'

      MacOS is generally unusable if you want to do real work other than tweaking content or media files. The interface does not provide easy access to essential capabilities, while being totally counter-intuitive unless you are already an inmate of the walled garden.

      Apple's hubris in rewriting standard functionality, with insufficient QA - like TLS - has resulted in breaking security and capabilities more than once or twice. You would think that they could get moving a file right, but clearly that's not guaranteed either.

      The way MacOS returns data is not useful for certain types of 'industrial strength' administration of systems and networks.

      Security fixes are generally not backported, so you have to keep 'leaping off a cliff' and hoping that no critical functions or applications will fail with the new release.

      MacOS is like a voluntarily worn straitjacket - if you don't want to use your arms, it's probably just fine.

  38. MJI Silver badge

    Email clients post XP

    Are all Thunderbird.

    When I had my work PC on 7 I wanted newsgroups.

    Loaded up the supplied client, complete bucket of shit.

    So I did the sensible and installed Thunderbird.

  39. Timmy B Silver badge

    I call fake news....

    "And of course the change also applies to a Preview, meaning there’s a decent chance this “feature” won’t ever make it into a proper version of Windows 10."

    At the end of an article that says

    "Windows 10 to force you to use Edge, even if it isn’t default browser"

    If there is a decent chance it won't ever make it then the title is wrong. It the title is right then the paragraph at the end is pointless. Poor writing or just clickbaity rubbish - you decide.

    1. DrXym Silver badge

      Re: I call fake news....

      Microsoft wouldn't implement a feature unless they have a every intent of putting it into the final product. The only think likely to stop them doing it is if they think they'll get in legal trouble for doing it.

  40. Mr Dogshit Silver badge

    Fine

    As soon as I can install PrivacyBadger in Edge, I'll give Edge a whirl.

    Until then, I won't.

    P.S. Spent most of yesterday afternoon fannying about trying to get Skype to work - the minimalist error message I kept getting was "Skype can't connect". Great. WTF does that mean in practice?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Fine

      "As soon as I can install PrivacyBadger in Edge, I'll give Edge a whirl."

      UBlock Origin and AdBlock Plus work in Edge. Edge is also faster and less resource hungry than Chrome so it's worth a go.

      1. Timmy B Silver badge

        Re: Fine

        "UBlock Origin and AdBlock Plus work in Edge. Edge is also faster and less resource hungry than Chrome so it's worth a go."

        Yep - exactly what I have found. I only use other browsers for testing now and have totally switched to Edge. I have found it faster and more stable than both Chrome and Firefox. Brave (I use it on my phone and tablet) kept crashing - no idea why...

      2. SamHepworth

        Re: Fine

        Yes but generally has less features and once you open chrome it is much easier to use and has many features that make your every day tasks quicker. There are also other browsers that are also better than edge like Firefox.

        1. Timmy B Silver badge

          Re: Fine

          "There are also other browsers that are also better than edge like Firefox."

          I find Firefox to be so slow. The UI mainly. It just seems like it's spending too much time thinking while I'm using it. It used to be my preferred choice but no longer.

  41. RogerT

    Don't forget the nag until submission pop-ups you'll get

    "Edge is not you default browser. Do you wish to make Edge your default browser?"

  42. sawatts
    Linux

    Windows 10 forces you to use Linux even if it isn't the most conventient.

    ...fixed the title for you.

  43. hairydog

    Echo chamber feedback

    In my view, Microsoft has put itself in a position of getting feedback from an echo chamber. So the feedback is entirely worthless.

    The preview releases of Windows 10 seem to consistently offer "improvements" in features I would never use or even look at.

    Cortana, Edge, Windows Apps. Nothing actually relevant to my use of a PC.

    So I stopped bothering to bother with preview releases. They have no real-world relevance to me.

    Unless I'm alone in that, this means that the feedback they get will be from the people who think these stupid ideas are relevant and interesting. Microsoft will get a distorted view of public perception.

  44. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Windows Mail app? None of my business then.

    Other than a few instances where I have to tolerate Microsoft products, I'm Microsoft-free most of the time.

  45. naive

    Nothing new here, Office365 already has screen issues with firefox

    Try office 365 in firefox, it works so bad, that one is forced to use MS Edgeploder in order to use it.

    So much for "freedom in browser choice". Let hope the EU commission reads this, so they again can fine them for a few millions.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Nothing new here, Office365 already has screen issues with firefox

      Nothing new here, Office365 already has screen issues with firefox

      Try office 365 in firefox, it works so bad, that one is forced to use MS Edgeploder in order to use it.

      So much for "freedom in browser choice". Let hope the EU commission reads this, so they again can fine them for a few millions.

      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

      You know this is the universe telling you it's time to switch to LibreOffice, and reclaim some control and security, don't you?

  46. 1Rafayal

    Hang on, I am a Windows 10 fan - but isnt this what the court cases in the 90's were all about?

    Wasnt there a legal ruling that stated MS couldnt force you into using a specific browser?

    Plus, I dont like Edge, I like Chrome.

  47. Steve Evans

    Somehow I suspect this will have more of a hit on the usage of the Mail app than on the use of Edge!

  48. DrXym Silver badge

    Lawsuit time

    Even today they're desperate to get people to use Edge.

    I set up a new laptop yesterday, installing Firefox as one of the first acts. When I went to switch the default browser to Firefox in the settings, a popup appeared asking if I really wanted to not use Edge because it was great. No it isn't. It's kind of shit actually.

    The EU really needs to kick Microsoft hard in the balls, or enormous fines (whichever is legally permissible) until they get the message and stop interfering with people's choice of browser.

  49. MrKrotos

    Windows 10 + Audio Production

    I have given up on Windows 10, cant say I didnt try it. TBH I like Windows 10 but only on machines that do simple tasks.

    I have just re-installed Windows 7 on my music production lappy as the latest Windows 10 killed the ASIO Drivers and made the machine unusable. This was only after 1 week! 1 week it worked for then died!

  50. The Dogs Meevonks

    Dear Microsoft

    Please go fuck yourself

  51. Dan Wilkie

    At the risk of starting a flame war, how is this any different to Apple doing the exact same thing with Safari on my iPad, or indeed my iPhone?

    I know, I know, Microsoft shill etc etc.

    1. Adrian 4 Silver badge

      It isn't any different.

      But today's topic is Microsoft's failings. If tomorrow, Apple or Google are in the news for the same problem, that's not surprising and deserves its own rants.

    2. jelabarre59 Silver badge

      At the risk of starting a flame war, how is this any different to Apple doing the exact same thing with Safari on my iPad, or indeed my iPhone?

      We're reaming Microsoft *today*. TOMORROW is our day to ream Apple.

  52. mstreet

    But....it doesn't work!

    Just finished an official Microsoft training course, hosted by an official MS training partner. Aside from the course being so out of date, that a solid third of it was unusable due to a UI change, the real joke was that the Edge browser wouldn't display half of the pages in the Office 365 console. The trainer told us all to use either Chrome or Firefox. I saw the same behavior when I ran an office 365 trial some 3 years ago. And it still isn't fixed, despite it being all over the MS forums for years.

    This sounds just like MS recently.... We'll force you to manage our cloud platform with OUR browser, regardless of whether it works or not...

  53. DropBear Silver badge
    WTF?

    So what else is new...? Last time I checked, all these years "start index.html" launched good ole' Internet Explorer under windows, regardless of what was nominally your system default browser or what html was normally getting opened with everywhere else in your system - so most software that had any embedded links to local html was opening that way if you were foolish enough to click on anything (or just press "F1")...

  54. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Linux is looking attractive, there I have a choice.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      I don't have a choice to use Linux... if I just want to get my work done and not fight with the computer daily.

      1. hplasm Silver badge
        Windows

        " if I just want to get my work done and not fight with the computer daily."

        Don't use Windows 10 then.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: " if I just want to get my work done and not fight with the computer daily."

          exactly.

  55. adam payne Silver badge

    “we will begin testing a change where links clicked on within the Windows Mail app will open in Microsoft Edge” and this will help boost our market share figures.

  56. Lloyd

    Hold on

    Didn't the EU try to get them to remove IE but their defense was it was part of Explorer and therefore integral to the OS? Does the same apply with Edge because as far as I can tell it's not part of explorer at all so surely it can be removed?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Hold on

      "Didn't the EU try to get them to remove IE but their defense was it was part of Explorer and therefore integral to the OS?"

      Yes. They integrated IE with the OS to prevent people from removing it in favour of Netscape.

      This had the handy side effect of making any security flaw in IE a security flaw in the OS, and media files and players integrated with IE made a flaw in the media player a flaw in the OS.

      Great work, because it let them crush Netscape... and we have been paying for that ever since.

  57. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I've just checked my iMac...

    ...and I can confirm it's all working fine.

  58. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Wow, a lot of cry-babies.

    I didn't realise Windows Mail was to popular...

  59. Howard Hanek Bronze badge
    Childcatcher

    Deny History? Again?

    That EU ruling that prohibited MS from selling an OS with a browser that could NOT be removed without breaking the system is no longer in force?

    1. Charles 9 Silver badge

      Re: Deny History? Again?

      Well, how about a browser that just happens to have an OS attached to it?

  60. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Looks like "I will be forced to switch to a Chromebook then"....

  61. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Looks like I will be "Forced" to witch to a Chromebook then.....

    1. J27

      Why buy new? Just install Linux on your current hardware. If all you ever use is Chrome it will be exactly the same as ChromeOS.

  62. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Edge is crap performance wise. Even IE is better.

    Case in point this morning, sent out to a machine having connectivity issues/slow browsing etc.

    Pointed them to IE and everything is fine! Personally I like blue moon but ETHO

    1. Adrian 4 Silver badge

      I'm finding google hates on blue moon. It provokes a number of irritating failures in gmail.

      I guess google is just as bad as MS. Just more subtle.

  63. IGnatius T Foobar

    The biggest lesson not learned...

    You'd think that after that period of IE dominance, M$ would have learned that control of the browser does *not* give them control of the Internet. People still go out of their way to avoid using IE, Edge, Bing, and Cortana.

  64. Levente Szileszky

    Windows Mail users are welcoming...

    ...all 15 of them.

    1. J27

      Re: Windows Mail users are welcoming...

      I like it, it's a simple mail app that can put together my multiple inboxes.

      Now I have to find something else.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Windows Mail users are welcoming...

        'I like it, it's a simple mail app that can put together my multiple inboxes.

        Now I have to find something else.'

        Thunderbird. Good multiple account support, lots of options, full set of features, reliable, extensible, will handle inboxes with >50K messages easily.

  65. jonfr

    Windows 10 is only for games

    After using Windows 10 (Home*) for 1 year now I've come to the conclusion that Windows 10 is only good for games. For normal desktop usage its no good with its update problems and other issues.

    This is not improving that bug ratio. Soon as I can afford a new PC I am moving my desktop activity back to Gentoo Linux.

    *Home isn't useful for games. I have to get Windows 10 Professional to have a useable operating system for games that are for Windows 10.

  66. JohnFen Silver badge

    Carefully chosen

    An application that I (along with almost everyone) never use forcing you to use a browser that I (along with almost everyone) never use?

    Bad form, Microsoft, but clearly they've carefully chosen their initial assault on users carefully -- this will annoy almost nobody.

    1. Fading Silver badge
      Windows

      Re: Carefully chosen

      Problem is they will get 97% positive feedback from said hand full of users and hence roll out this behaviour in many other places.

      The constant switch back to edge as default browser after each major update is already an irritation - I don't look forward to regedits just to stop this happening elsewhere.

      Yes I do use linux (on my HTPC) but my main machine is used for gaming and the intel chip and intel raid only play nicely with windows (e.g. TurboBoost 3.0 is Windows only) .

      1. JohnFen Silver badge

        Re: Carefully chosen

        "and hence roll out this behaviour in many other places."

        Indeed. That's why I characterized it as an "initial assault".

  67. SamHepworth

    All it will do is kill off the Windows mail app as there will be another reason not to use it. Microsoft edge us not the fastest or most secure browser and is just a re-written internet explorer which is one of the worst browsers ever. Edge is a bit better than internet explorer but it still is just annoying to use.

  68. steviebuk Silver badge

    1998 all over again...

    ...but this time instead of "Deposition by Bill Gates" we'll be seeing "Deposition by Satya Nadella"

    I remember those times when the rumour was, once MS lost, Microsoft was going to be forced to break up. Although that never happened.

    The EU will hit MS with a MASSIVE hammer over this. Satya seems to be ignoring history.

    1. Adrian 4 Silver badge

      Re: 1998 all over again...

      No, they won't.

      Microsoft has lost so much market share that it can't be treated as a monopoly any more.

      If you want to fix it, it's up to you to change vendor.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: 1998 all over again...

        "Microsoft has lost so much market share that it can't be treated as a monopoly any more."

        ? Microsoft still have the same high 80s percent of desktop market share the have had for years and their server and office software market share is increasing. They also overtook AWS in cloud revenue 2 quarters ago and are growing faster.

      2. JohnFen Silver badge

        Re: 1998 all over again...

        "Microsoft has lost so much market share that it can't be treated as a monopoly any more."

        That's only true in the mobile space. On the desktop, Microsoft is every bit the monopoly they've always been. Remember, in the US it's not illegal to be a monopoly -- it's only illegal to abuse your monopoly position. That's the case that would have to be made.

  69. Someone Else Silver badge
    FAIL

    What do I think of it?

    Well, without resorting to a blue streak extending from here to North Dakota: I think it is yet another reason not to use windows 10.

    You'd think Micors~1 would have learned by now. But since these decisions are being made by ADHD-addled Millennials who have nothing but contempt for anything historical that happened before they were born, this is predictable. Sad.

    1. Geoffrey W Silver badge

      Re: What do I think of it?

      Have You ever cared for much that happened before you were born? I bet not much. Millennial hate is becoming so knee jerk and silly.

      1. Someone Else Silver badge

        @Geoffrey W -- Re: What do I think of it?

        Well, actually, I was part of the "duck'n'roll" generation...you know, the one that was told from basically Day 1 that Khrushchev was going to bury us with his shoe, and that wet newspaper and school desks would protect us from fallout of most every kind. All that Commie Pinko stuff happened very much before I was born, yet it rather did have an effect on how I grew up, and how I and millions like me responded to that little dust-up in SE Asia.

        Of course you, Mr. Jeffery W. Millennial, have absolutely no idea of what I am talking about, and I know you bloody well don't care either.

        So get your pampered, expectant, doomed-to-repeat-history ass off my lawn, dammit!

        1. Geoffrey W Silver badge

          Re: @Geoffrey W -- What do I think of it?

          Yeah, but, all that commie cold war nuclear paranoia was pretty significant stuff. Caring about the browser wars isn't quite on the same scale and one could make allowances for not remembering that.

          And oh, if only I was a millennial and my back didn't have this middle aged ache. I wasn't a boomer and I'm not a millennial. What the hell am I in between all these significant generations? Generation X? I must be the blank generation.

  70. adnim Silver badge

    Forced to the Edge?

    I was forced to the edge of sanity supporting windows over the past 25 or so years. I learned a great deal fixing MS stuff. And fixing Windows brought me a good income.

    Now I don't have to support Windows at all, my training wheels have gone ;-) and I admin Linux servers and code websites. It is far less frustrating, much more fun, far more reliable and much more rewarding.

    I feel like a passenger using MS products. I feel like a driver using Linux.

    MS want me to use Edge? They would have to force me to use Win 10 first!

    1. Geoffrey W Silver badge

      Re: Forced to the Edge?

      I'm starting my new range of WA (Windows Anonymous, Slogan WAH) coins based on the idea of AA coins. "Hello, I'm Adnim and I have been windowless for 30 days."

      Only $50 for a six month coin, $40 for a year coin. They have an angry Linus face on one side and a cute penguin on the flip. Get yours now. Everyone who is anyone will want one. www.MicrosoftSucks.coma

      <Rapacious_Entrepreneurial_Face_Emoji>

  71. Port_able

    Mint ..

    Replaced W10 with Linux Mint last night. No more nags about 1709 needing more memory, ideally buying one with a Microshaft label on it. A re-energised Lenovo Ideapad here.

    1. Geoffrey W Silver badge

      Re: Mint ..

      A teary eyed happy clappy welcome to our new cult member! Don't worry if your friends sidle away; they don't know any better out there in the wilderness. Your new friends will love you and your beard forever. <Happy_Crying_Face_Emoji>

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Mint ..

      I was forced to buy a laptop with windows 10 on it more than a year ago. Six months before that, I went with a friend (hard core high level QA expert) to buy him a laptop.

      We got the 'computer expert' on duty at the large tech / electronics / computer store. He was puzzled when we told him that there would be no sale unless the laptop successfully booted the live Linux CD we had with us... so we explained why Windows 10 was not and never would be acceptable to anyone who wanted privacy, security, and control over their own computer.

      Like most sensible people, he found the Windows 10 license agreement - which he had never read - both offensive and scary. By the time we finished explaining, he wanted to leave work early to take Windows 10 off his own computer.

      Obviously, both of us took our respective machines home and installed Linux... in my case with two boot partitions for two different versions of Linux. My 'windows 10' laptop never actually booted into Windows.

  72. Challo

    No Problem

    Cant really see what the big deal is here... the small number of people who are stupid enough to use mail will probably be the same small number of people who use Edge as well.

  73. Boris the Cockroach Silver badge
    FAIL

    Another linux

    user here.

    Well actually thats a lie, I use a windows 7 machine for games and random browsing via firefox.

    The real machine for on-line stuff of all sorts is the Mint powered laptop next to me... anything (including steam) needs a credit card.. then that machine is used.

    And after experiences with win 10 at work......

    Which is a shame really, because if only m$ had said "Lets have the updated win 10 kernel/groundwork, then add a window manager that people can customise.. so that the phone type uber nerds can have tiles everywhere and a connection to the m$ app store, and the professional guys and gals(like me) can stick with a good old fashioned windows 7 type desktop."

    Add in the update thing so that users can pick a time/date for updates instead of ramming them down their throats when they want to be using their computers for things like... say work

    And M$ could have been onto a winner like Xp/win 7 were. but no.

    My next machine will have win 10 on it for gaming only .. but any serious work will be done on linux, where its reasonably secure... and away from any chance of being slurped by m$

  74. J27

    Looks like I'm dumping Windows Mail then.

    Microsoft never learns.

  75. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I unintentionally analyzed El Reg members browser types

    I tried posting a web link to ViruTotal results in a comment on another thread but the URL was too long and kept getting cut off.

    I created a shortened URL using the first URL shortening service that popped up which happened to be Googles URL shortener.

    Apparently Google's URL shortener has an "analytic" function which shows the browsers used by anyone that viewed my shortened link to VirusTotal and it appears that the majority of El Reg users use Windows computers running Chrome browsers.

    (Of course it was a very small sample of users and maybe only Windows users running Chrome blindly click on shortened links?)

    https://goo.gl/?authed=1#analytics/goo.gl/w38UBr/all_time

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I unintentionally analyzed El Reg members browser types

      "(Of course it was a very small sample of users and maybe only Windows users running Chrome blindly click on shortened links?)"

      Or maybe a lot of people browse from work and Chrome or sometimes Firefox is the best option they have, and if the machine is infected someone else has to fix it?

    2. Ken Moorhouse Silver badge

      Re: anyone that viewed my shortened link

      My policy is to not click on shortened url's - you've outlined one "feature" that is problematic, but nothing compared to where that link might be pointing. Yes, there is a way to uncloak the "real" link, but if it's something of casual interest only then I'm not going to bother.

  76. Anonymous Coward
    Paris Hilton

    No1 Microsoft Way

    is the internet !!

    Not just an indulgent name of a street in Redmond Washington, USA

    I wasted $50 downloading 4.3 GB DVD Win of 8.1 when my O/S refused to boot using any method.

    With the new Windows 8.1 installed, it perpetually caused (in some ever changing random order) my other NTFS partitions of RESTORE OR PBR or even the MAIN partition itself to be dirty or somehow damaged, 'whenever' I tried accessing it with Linux, regardless of the fact that the DVD WinRE checked the partitions and gave them a good bill of health prior to the re-installation. I can't help seeing it as further deliberate bullshit.

    I have given up my commercial windows supported software, that I depended on and migrated to Linux. at a loss so far, but the $$ and hours spent with Windows have mounted to make it preventative

    So the Edge is just a browser, not an advantage of using Microsoft Windows.

    NO Way Microsoft.

  77. Curt Vile

    Well, so what? Who uses Windows Mail, FFS?

  78. Sentar

    USE WIN10....

    I have 1 system with WIN10 PRO installed and it is a test system to allow me to follow WIN10 and help those who request help form me.

    If this is HOW Microsoft want to force WIN10 and its EDGE and other components then I will NO longer use or support my friends.

    Begone WIN10

    1. jelabarre59 Silver badge

      Re: USE WIN10....

      I have 1 system with WIN10 PRO installed and it is a test system to allow me to follow WIN10 and help those who request help form me.

      That's what *my* MSWin 10 systems had been. I'd run MWS10 Tech Preview on some scrap laptop so I could see what nonsense was coming down the road.

      Only thing is, I've had TWO different laptops I've used for the MSWin Tech Preview, and BOTH have failed to the point they won't even power on anymore. Kinda tells you something right there.

  79. Jove Bronze badge

    Under the hood

    More to the point; why would MS want to even suggest this? What lies in Edge that we do not know about?

    That aside; it's your own fault if you are using Windows.

  80. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Of course they are

    You're just a puny customer. We're Microsoft. Suck it.

  81. Danny 2 Silver badge

    I just had to install Windows 10 from scratch on a Lidl tablet for my mum, Took me two days on a fast internet connection, Effing insulting. Forced me to create a disposable outlook account, and then whined when I didn't want Edge as the default browser? It used to be bimbo~ware, now it is Putin~ware. I feel dirty.

  82. Ken Moorhouse Silver badge

    Standards

    From a balanced viewpoint the real problem with Edge being defaulted to for some purposes is that the Standards that were originally set up within the Windows framework (which were presumably specified by Microsoft), are being violated... by Microsoft. Is this Edge default hardwired-in to an application? If so, it shouldn't be, it's inefficient and: looking ahead - when Microsoft decide to ditch Edge, where will those hardwired links then point to? Because presumably they are not Registry-based, they will point nowhere.

  83. Danny 5
    Thumb Down

    silly

    I've been using edge and there's no denying it is by far the fastest browser out there. With its stripped down nature I can also imagine why it would currently be the most secure, as it lacks some functionality compared to it's competitors. I really don't get this move though and I'm sure they'll get a ton of backlash from it.

    I'm annoyed by all the anti-IE and Edge memes I've been seeing, as most of them are complete bullshit, but I'm certainly not in favor of MS shoving their desired product down my throat either.

  84. Screwed

    Silverlight!

    Have read through fairly quickly, so might have missed it, but I haven't seen any mention of Silverlight!

    Yes - that really is a reason we keep getting people calling and saying "Please install Silverlight because I need it for <crappy website>". They get nowhere trying to open the site in Edge.

    The second most common issue is that people find PDFs opening in Edge. Mostly they prefer Acrobat Reader DC or whatever other tools they have installed.

    The third is that they do not have necessary print options when printing from Edge.

    The fourth is using Remote Desktop (or has that recently changed?) which has always needed IE to work easily and reliably.

    And my hate, unable to use it in a domain admin account. It isn't that I want to use it, but I have to positively change defaults in order to avoid things trying to open in Edge.

    Finally, the fact that time after time, portal.office.com (yes, the 365 portal) fails to open pages time after time. The tab just stays blank and requires one or more F5/refreshes before it will appear. Works far better in FireFox.

    1. Solarflare

      Re: Silverlight!

      "And my hate, unable to use it in a domain admin account. It isn't that I want to use it, but I have to positively change defaults in order to avoid things trying to open in Edge."

      Why are you opening a browser when you're running with domain admin privileges?

  85. Kaise7

    Windows 10 & Edge worse than shit

    Bought a Dell lap top with this on total rubbish waste of money Windows 10 and edge u lick the sweat of a dead baboons balls. Heronin only MAC for me.

  86. Primus Secundus Tertius Silver badge

    Thin end of wedge

    Microsoft's intention could be described as the win end of the thedge.

  87. David Gosnell

    Probably a storm in a teacup

    Really not entirely sure this is quite as big a deal as portrayed, odious as it may be.

    Does anyone actually use Mail outside the kind of tablet-based environment that is locked down to Microsoft Store apps anyway? In that context, Edge (and wrappers thereof) is the mandated browser in any case. I suspect that the number of people who this adversely affects on a proper desktop environment with a choice of superior alternatives in the first place, is practically irrelevant.

  88. N2 Silver badge

    Anything else would be malware

    Noting like a malicious aplication forcing choices on you?

    Fuck wits of the very highest order.

  89. js6898

    Truely don't understand all this anti-MS feeling. I have been with MS since XP days, upgraded to W7 (missed Vista) and then W10 (missed W8). Everything just continues to work. I have Office 2007 for my spreadsheets and word files (keeps working year in, year out). Thumbsplus for my photos, VLC for my videos, IE for internet (started with IE6, now on IE11). Never had a problem. HOSTS file block adverts etc - always has done, still continues to do so. Use Allway Sync to backup my files, Audacity, Freemake (old free version), Adobe Audition (old version). Never had to upgrade anything. Just goes on and on. Now on W10 1709 not had to pay anything for years (last time was when I bought my W7 PC and I assume I paid an OS licence then). I love MS - just can''t work out how they make any money. They've certainly not had much from me over the last 15 years. Oh and yes, had years and years of free Hotmail. Feel as though I should make a donation to MS as a 'thank you' but don't know how.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Coffee/keyboard

      This is a joke?

      I love MS - just can''t work out how they make any money

      Seriously?

  90. dbastianello

    When you have exhausted all legitimate ways to show growth...

    Let's face it this is just a metrics game to show investors that Microsoft has an "Edge" on competitors. By forcing things this way it will definitely increase the MS Edge usage statistics. And anyone who has ever had to deal with the less technically competent knows that these users don't even know when they are in Firefox, Chrome or IE/Edge. These people, lets face it are the masses and they will skew the metrics.

    MS has to indefinitely show growth otherwise why would someone buy MS stocks in the first place, investors need a return. Like pretty much the majority of the tech industry they have run out of legitimate ways of improving efficiency and profit margins. Now that they have run out tangible ways to show growth they are now resorting to playing these sneaky stats tricks to fool investors into believing that after almost 3 years of no uptake that users all of the sudden are throwing away their fav browser for this super over the top better than the rest browser call Edge.

    1. Terry 6 Silver badge

      Re: When you have exhausted all legitimate ways to show growth...

      I think you've nailed the point. So many users thinks it's just " the internet" and are barely, if at all, aware that they use a browser. To users the browser is no more than a frame round the outside of the Amazon page (or the office intranet). These are the same people that we've quoted here, so many times, who call us because "The email isn't working" ( BSOD) and call the thing with pictures "the computer" and the box that does the computing "the hard drive".

      Hobbyhorse moment coming......

      All those people who complained that ICT in schools was rubbish, because it just showed kids how to use WORD and they needed to be taught to code were far off the mark IMO. ICT needed to teach kids how computers worked, what they could do, how they did it (including how to use OFFICE/Windows/LINUX etc.) and what the implications are for how we live our lives. Actually writing code should be a small, but interesting, part. Knowing what happens to your data is far more essential.

  91. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Dear Microsoft

    Finally, a useful addition to your operating system

    Unless I misread, that is :-)

    Cant think why folk are so pissed about having no choice of software

    Keep up the good work

    Obviously you cant please all the people all the time

    Furious rants about things you do will always appear

    Find time to LISTEN to folk and life will be easier for all

    1. Inventor of the Marmite Laser Silver badge

      Re: Dear Microsoft

      An acrostic, if I am not mistaken

  92. TheDillinquent
    Facepalm

    Wouldn't it be a good idea to get Edge working first?

    So, Windows sets Edge as the default browser? Problem is that Edge stopped working a few weeks back (may have been earlier, hard to tell if you don't use it), it opens, does that spinny thing then closes - blink and you miss it.

    And its not just me, I have tried to run Edge on 3 different completely different Win10 boxes with the same result and everyone I have spoken to about it has had the same experience.

    So now we have an OS that won't let you use t'internet. Great! Is it 1980 again?

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