back to article Microsoft says 'majority' of Windows 10 use will be 'streamlined S mode'

Microsoft has confirmed Windows 10 S will be a "mode" available in all versions of Windows, and added a prediction it'll be used by a "majority" of users. Windows 10 S was created to simplify administration for school sysadmins by running only apps from the Windows Store and designed to run on low-cost hardware. Microsoft also …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    is that S for Stupid

    i.e. Windows 10 Pro(n) PC Stupid Mode Enabled

    1. jeff_w87

      $hit mode as in the OS is $hit. Moving all gaming to consoles and moving all PCs to Linux. I'll miss some of my Win only games, but I can't deal with this Albatross much longer.

      1. 6th

        Well, if you want encouragement. I did it.

        Emprie:TW, X3:AP, Stellaris, Factorio, Arma3, Cities Skylines all work just fine on Ubuntu 14.04 LTS - the only thing a little sketchy is installing steam and steam overlay I turned off. 1080Ti works just fine here too.

        And I can choose what and how to update. There's proprietary drivers for GPUs just the same... as if open source drivers matter for most gamers... you're buying proprietary hardware...

        The thing I note that doesn't is Company of Heros which I occasionally play with family.

        I rarely use Windows personally anymore and happier for it. Only a matter of time till I wipe that SSD and one day discover the usb stick for windows and wonder if I could wipe that too...

        Seriously we put up with vista, took a deep breath with windows7, windows 8 got us angry all over and 10 is a goddam nightmare.

        It's an operating system for christ's sake. I decided near the end of last year, that's it. I'm out.

        1. ForthIsNotDead
          Thumb Up

          Me too

          Couldn't agree more. I've been running Mint on all my personal/family machines and have been absolutely fine with it. What do most people do at home these days? Browse the web, that's what.

          I've also got LAMP stacks, python, c++, code::blocks et al installed in Linux, all working fine. Just the job.

          I still have Windows 7 (which I actually like very much - it's very good) for my PLC programming software, but that's the only thing I use Windows for these days.

          I wish Microsoft could get their shit together.

      2. Degenerate Scumbag

        You won't miss it. I did it 5 years ago and never looked back.

    2. ST Silver badge
      Angel

      > is that S for Stupid

      I suggest Windows 10 Suck Edition.

      Ergo, Windows 10 SE.

    3. JetSetJim Silver badge

      Win 10 Stupid Edition

      Yes, it's dumb. Yes, the user can switch 'back'. But this option puts all the dumb users default configuration into one that pushes them into Microsoft controlled revenue generators Bing and the store

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Win 10 Profoundly Stupid Edition

        <= Windows 10 Pro

        All your braincells are belong to us.

      2. bombastic bob Silver badge
        FAIL

        Re: Win 10 Stupid Edition

        does 'SH!+' mode turn OFF the ability to run "legacy" applications (i.e. Win32 API) or any kind of "backward" compatibility? Because, rumor has it, THAT is the TRUE goal here. That's right, ONE! BIG! HAPPY! UWP! FAMILY! (via "the store") !!! All *DUMBED* *DOWN* to the *LOWEST* common denominator, running 'SH!+' mode "CRapps" from "The Store!!!" Because, it's *MODERN* !!!

        ugh, now I need more 'pink liquid' so I don't vomit.

        1. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

          Re: Win 10 Stupid Edition

          Looks like you need to fix your OS - capslock appears to be operating randomly.

        2. Chronos Silver badge
          Coat

          Re: Win 10 Stupid Edition

          ugh, now I need more 'pink liquid' so I don't vomit.

          One Windolene coming right up.

          They should have called it Windows BOHICA. Seems to me that they want to be all the bad things Apple are without any of the good.

      3. davidp231

        Re: Win 10 Stupid Edition

        Problem is, Win98SE was actually pretty good - probably the best of the 9x series. Especially when you compare it to its successor.

        1. Chronos Silver badge
          Stop

          Re: Win 10 Stupid Edition

          probably the best of the 9x series

          That was 95 OSR2, in that it was less crap than anything else 95-ME inclusive as long as you didn't install IE4. Active desktop my left testicle. Other notably less-crap code spewed from Redmond are the version of BASIC CBM used, Win2k with later service packs and Win 7. Everything else, everything else was/is a complete dog's breakfast/dingo kidneys/polished turd/pavement pizza/anus explosion*. I was going to try to work the vacuum cleaner joke in here somewhere but I simply can't be arsed.

          *delete as appropriate

        2. ad47uk

          Re: Win 10 Stupid Edition

          Yes, Win98Se was pretty good and certainly better than Windows ME that followed it.

      4. TheVogon Silver badge

        Re: Win 10 Stupid Edition

        "But this option puts all the dumb users default configuration into one that pushes them into Microsoft controlled revenue generators Bing and the store"

        So just like Google and Apple then. But at least you can choose say no.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Win 10 Stupid Edition

          So just like Google and Apple then

          That's a good thing?

          But at least you can choose say no.

          "No" to bing and the store? Not in "S mode"

          Or "no" to Windows?

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Win 10 Stupid Edition

            ""No" to bing and the store? Not in "S mode""

            So dont use S mode. Its optional.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Win 10 Stupid Edition

              > So dont use S mode. Its optional.

              For now...

              1. Danny 14 Silver badge

                Re: Win 10 Stupid Edition

                windows store for business is a complete mess. there is no way in hell a school would deploy a fleet of windows S over windows 10 education.

                the licensing alone would be stupid as you would still need CALS and the cheapest way to get CALS is via educational licensing. this will get you office and 365 for your students.

                not sure how this can be seriously pitched.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Win 10 Stupid Edition

          So just like Google and Apple then. But at least you can choose say no.

          You can with Apple too. At least 50% of the applications on my machine have not been bought from the App Store, either because they're cheaper that way, give the people who wrote it more money or are more functional because they do not need to comply with App Store restrictions such as database access. SimpleMind, OmniGraffle et al - IMHO better bought direct.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "S" is for ???

      Stagnant = No updates ever

      Subscription-lapsed = The who forgot to pay the piper mode...

      Stopping = With a counter that counts down the number of hours until you lose all access to your data that has been moved into the MS Cloud (for your safety and security naturally)

      Synics Mode = Where your system goes when you complain too loudly about the costs of the subscription.

      I am however assuming that Windows like Orifice will move to a subscription model very soon.

      No matter. Whatever they do is far too late for me. I've moved everything to MacOS (laptop) and Linux(servers) now. They can piss into the wind as far as I'm concerned!

      And they still owe me £6.78 that was in my Skype account when they deleted it!

      1. Mage Silver badge

        Re: Skype account

        I was annoyed when MS killed older Skype, they did it MUCH later on Linux. The replacement is inferior. So I and many others now use Viber (we tried QQ for a while on Windows & Android, but only Chinese on Linux).

        ~

        Only Viber issue is that SOME laptops are assumed to be retina/HiDPI by Viber/QT/Flatback. It's not simply being 1920 x 1080, something knows physical screen size and making a stupid decision. Solution is install, if OK do nothing, if not put QT_SCALE_FACTOR=0.5 in the startup environment: sudo nano /etc/environment works on my Linux Mint 18.3. Another laptop with same 1920 x 1080 also made by Lenovo but larger screen was fine. Both same identical desktop & Linux Mint. This seems to occur with some other Flatpack apps on Ubuntu, but Mint only got Flatpack with 18.3.

        It sounds like a classic "Oh Linux is too hard" but really this was simpler than any of the half dozen major issues I've had with Win 10 or with Skype since MS decided it was a Phone App with adverts.

        1. fajensen Silver badge

          Re: Skype account

          If one uses “appear.in”, https://appear.in, there is nothing to install and one can avoid this kind of ritual for the digital gods!

          - doesn’t work on Safari, of course but, what does?

          - appear.in it is a browser based video chat system, what Skype could have been if MS hadn’t decided to route all traffic via Langley, Virginia.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: "S" is for ???

        S for Suicide.

      3. Omarosa
        Thumb Down

        Re: "S" is for ???

        SSSHITHOLE???

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      I was more thinking of "S" for "shafted" because it locks customers in, a game that Microsoft absolutely loves because of the abuse it can ladle out to customers without any serious challenge.

      What's more, unlike their sort-of-competitor (Apple still doesn't have nearly the volume to make that a serious claim), Microsoft plays at best reluctantly ball with Open Standards, something you'll discover when you're trying to get Outlook to talk caldav or carddav. Also note that it "encourages" users away from any use of Open Source - I prefer Firefox (or Waterfox) any day over Edge.

      TBH, if Thunderbird's support for RTF was even marginally better it would serve as a good replacement for Outlook, Microsoft's best lock in product ever, but it doesn't get much love anymore from the Foundation :(.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        I think "S is for Shafted" is about right. Presumably they didn't think "F is for Free" would work, firstly because despite its rictus grin when being forced to embrace open source MS doesn't really like free, and secondly because it might make it a bit obvious that the long-term plan is going to be subscription Pro and paid-for-by-slurping Free modes.

      2. TheVogon Silver badge

        "something you'll discover when you're trying to get Outlook to talk caldav or carddav. "

        Quite true. But to be fair on Microsoft, its a paid for product designed to work primarily with Exchange and O365. However as it is modular and supports addins, there are lots of free 3rd party solutions. For instance:

        https://sourceforge.net/projects/outlookcaldavsynchronizer/

        And if you are trying to sync to gmail, Outlook can do that:

        https://support.office.com/en-gb/article/see-your-google-calendar-in-outlook-c1dab514-0ad4-4811-824a-7d02c5e77126

        1. Roland6 Silver badge

          Re: And if you are trying to sync to gmail, Outlook can do that:

          Funny how others have managed to make gmail sync from non-google platforms (including Outlook) a simple wizard: enter username, password, tick boxes for the services you want sync'd and click "Okay"...

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            "Funny how others have managed to make gmail sync from non-google platforms (including Outlook) a simple wizard: enter username, password, tick boxes for the services you want sync'd and click "Okay"..."

            But not for Calendars. Which is what the question referred to

    6. J. R. Hartley Silver badge

      Mess

      It really is an utter UTTER mess. I dread the day I am forced to leave Windows 7. I'll probably start experimenting with some type of Linux. Or maybe AmigaOS4. Or maybe just keep using my phone for 99% of my needs and only turn the computer on when I need to type something out or make a spreadshite.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Mess

        Yep. I've done dual boot with Mint. I'm geared up to switch the family to 'nux when things get too stupid, and their reluctance fades. One child now graduated and employed so uses a work laptop in Windows and has very little use for any kind of personal PC at home any more. The younger one is off to Uni next term and she can use whatever they want them to. But it won't be at home. So I'm free to make the switch.

        1. Just Enough
          Linux

          Re: Mess

          "Yep. I've done dual boot with Mint."

          Congratulations, Anonymous Coward! You are the first in this discussion about Windows to take the time to inform everyone that you use Linux. Your prize is: a cuddly penguin!

          Thanks for sharing!

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Mess

            > in this discussion about Windows

            The point is that this isn't a discussion about 'Windows'. Windows is an OS that runs Windows programs. This discussion is about 'S-mode', the anti-Windows.

        2. Twanky

          Re: Mess

          Be aware that Windows Feature Updates can cause other FUs on a dual/multi boot PC. If Windows does not understand the partitioning it seems quite happy to stamp all over it to get the update done. Fortunately for me, re-installing the various Linux partitions only cost me time - my data syncs to/from my servers.

      2. Him_Over_There
        Megaphone

        Re: Mess

        I can recommend Debian for servers and Linux Mint for your laptop.

        I've never had ANY issue with Mint.

        1. Baudwalk

          Re: Mess

          >>>I've never had ANY issue with Mint.<<<

          I have. Also with .?Ubuntu. And Red Hat | Fedora. And Mandrake | Mandriva, SuSE | openSUSE, ...

          But I'm with you on Debian.

          Debian and Slackware are the only OS's that never caused me any grief at one time or another.

          1. davidp231

            Re: Mess

            "But I'm with you on Debian."

            This is what happens when others bork decent distros... Ubuntu is based on Debian, and Mint in turn, is based on Ubuntu. However Mint does have the added bonus of the LMDE version. Pure Debian with Mint-y freshness.

        2. Glenturret Single Malt

          Re: Mess

          Does anyone have a dual band wifi adapter that works with Mint on the 5GHz band?

      3. keithpeter
        Coat

        Re: Mess

        @ J. R. Hartley and all

        "It really is an utter UTTER mess. I dread the day I am forced to leave Windows 7. "

        Is ReactOS likely to be able to run your required applications by 2020 Win7 cut off?

        https://www.reactos.org/

        Just wondering, not being sarky.

        I find an old laptop running linux meets my personal needs fine. At work I use what employer gives me to use. Usually a managed Windows PC logged into a network.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Mess

          ReactOS is nice in theory only. They have a tendency to change their targets before meeting their goals, and are forever behind the curve and unstable. With better organization behind them and a larger community, they may one day make a viable alternative, but Linux or Mac are a much better alternative to Windows than ReatOS in its current state. I'm not advocating either as a replacement, and I do have my biases for Linux, but I also know that everyone has different needs for their use case, so without knowing what you need specifically, I can not make a suggestion. In any case, if you really need to use Windows for your needs, be thankful that the corporate overlords at Microsoft are still allowing you to disable S-Mode. Not sure how much longer that will last.

    7. ForthIsNotDead
      Coat

      S for...

      "Should have got Linux"

      1. daflibble

        Re: S for...

        "ForthIsNotDead

        S for...

        "Should have got Linux""

        Ah ha as Linux on windows is available as a store app, Window S just makes it easy to run Linux ; )

        1. Richard Plinston Silver badge

          Re: S for...

          > as Linux on windows is available as a store app, Window S just makes it easy to run Linux

          I am not sure that the store works like that. Just because something is in the store for Windows 10 does not mean that it is available for Windows 10S or S-mode.

          Apps may be in the store for Windows Phone 8 but won't show up to be installed for Windows 10.

          1. Anonymous Bullard

            Re: S for...

            Just because something is in the store for Windows 10 does not mean that it is available for Windows 10S or S-mode.

            Well, one of the requirements of store apps is they must work on Windows 10 S. Meaning, every app in their store is restricted.

            Of course, that restriction doesn't apply to Microsoft - Linux isn't available to Windows 10 S, and their apps (like Office) are allowed to do more things than normal apps.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: S for...

          Yeah Linux CAN be vulnerable, if you run it inside Windows. Why on earth would you want to make your NIX vulnerable to Windows exploits?

    8. ecofeco Silver badge

      S car go.

      Slow.

    9. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Classic Microsoft. This is a giant land grab, basically trying to force people to use Edge, Bing and Windows Store (instead of the much more popular Chrome, Google, and anything that is not Windows Store)... but they also don't want to push all their chips in the middle so they have the hedge that people can switch make to Windows 10 full mode in the, extremely likely, event they do not want S mode.

      This just seems dumb as they are validating Chrome OS, basically telling people that it is the way PCs should work... and Google has the number 1 browser, search and app store (number 1 by a mile in all cases), so why wouldn't people just use the real deal, Chrome OS, if that is what they want to do instead of the Windows mode.

      1. Gustavo Fring
        Happy

        Fixed it

        "this is a Giant Land Crab" ... eating all the KoKoNuts.... sing it, it really cheers you up!

      2. Jaybus

        > This just seems dumb as they are validating Chrome OS, basically telling people that it is the way PCs should work.

        More like MacOS, which by default forces apps to be from the Apple Store, but can be switched into a mode that allows installing non-store apps. Apple went down this path quite some time ago.

    10. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      S for Stupid?

      I thought it was for shit.

  2. whitepines Silver badge
    Linux

    Games, anyone?

    Valve should just charge Windows 10 S users the extra 30% (or whatever the Windows Store fee is) per game, plus a monthly rental -- then watch that gaming market share switch quickly to Linux!

    Plus, Valve should start building for non-x86 architectures. Once you're off Windows, lots of cool options out there now....

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Games, anyone?

      This wouldn't cause Windows users to switch, bear in mind the 98-odd percent of people who use Windows do so because they love it to bits, regardless of its faults.

      They will welcome the whole "S" thing as an improvement and love it. Just like they do with telemetry and such that is included in Windows 10.

      Most users love Windows, so you can pretty much place a safe bet they will not switch. Plus let's not forget that the majority of users have no idea how to install Linux.

      Even those Windows users here complaining about Windows 10 and Windows 10 S will soon conform to Microsoft's new standards and continue to use Windows.

      Worst case they'll pay a little extra to get S removed, or hopefully they'll just carry on using S.

      They'll complain sure, but that's more because people love to complain. But it doesn't mean they will leave Windows, they love it too much.

      Lastly, don't forget that average joe doesn't really care about telemetry or vendor lock in's and stuff. They just want Windows because it's what they love.

      So yup, regardless of S, there will not be a significant change in market share. Heck, once Windows 7 stops getting updates you'll see a huge rise in Windows 10 user numbers.

      #SaysTheLinuxUser

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Games, anyone?

        I think you will find the reason most people have windows is because it was pre-installed on the computer they bought. For most of them it's there so they use it until it does something nasty with their photos, then they start thinking about using something else.

        There is no love of windows by anyone other than the few fanboys.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Games, anyone?

          "There is no love of windows by anyone other than the few fanboys"

          Also true of Linux though. And as Windows 10 is now on circa 700 million devices 'a few' is actually a very large number.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Games, anyone?

            I'm sure they all love windows.

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Games, anyone?

            "Also true of Linux though. And as Windows 10 is now on circa 700 million devices 'a few' is actually a very large number."

            I'd wager that very few of those 700 millions devices have any paricular love for Windows. It just happens to have come with their device.

            And FWIW Linux is running on an order of magnitude more devices than that.

      2. Paul Crawford Silver badge

        Re: Games, anyone?

        Nope, very few people "love" Windows. They use it because:

        1) It came with their PC (and they could not / would not afford a Mac)

        2) They depend on Windows-only software for something important.

        1. James 51 Silver badge

          Re: Games, anyone?

          You forgot did not want a mac in your list.

        2. Terry 6 Silver badge

          Re: Games, anyone?

          Or;

          3) Never gave it a thought, it's just what computers do.

      3. Terry 6 Silver badge

        Re: Games, anyone?

        I'd guess that once/if Windows starts to make Apple devices less expensive by comparison the public will go fruity, rather than Minty.

      4. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Games, anyone?

        the number of downvotes confirms that lots of really bright people here are deluding themselves / live in a la-la land, because your assessment is, UNFORTUNATELY, spot on. Yes, a HUGE MAJORITY of people don't give a flying about telemetry, walled gardens, etc., they will cheer this "S" mode (just like my 11-year-old daugher, who wants me to install chrome on her phone. Why chrome? Because it's "nice". What's "nice"? Logo. Logo looks nice (facepalm).

      5. stronk

        Re: Games, anyone?

        I don't know, you might be surprised if you actually ask 'the average Joe'. I spend a lot of time helping out colleagues with IT questions because frankly the IT department make such a song and dance about simple stuff that it's easier to ask me. Over the years, I'd estimate 30% of people I've asked have said something like "I don't have a problem with the new Windows" (sometimes 7, but mostly 8 or 10). 70% have said variations on "God, it's *terrible*! I hate [long list of things they hate about it]". These aren't techies, they are normal users just trying to get work done. They don't need any encouragement to complain. 100% of MacOS users have been satisfied. And no average Joe I've ever met uses Linux.

        If the average Joes knew how to switch or if their IT department decided to give it a go, then provided the replacement OS addressed their issues with Windows and didn't introduce loads of other issues, it sounds like they'd be fine.

        'Love it to bits' is just completely off the mark in my experience. It's only used because it is the monopoly in a system where cross-compatibility is more important than user experience. MS could install sewage smell generators as mandatory hardware for their next OS version and turn every 5th window upside down and 98% of people would still use Windows. They hug themselves and do high fives whenever they release new 'features' like the one being discussed which just make everything dumber and harder to use for more purposes. I think they really must fail to understand how low people's opinion is of them and their updates. Or they know and don't care because it's all about maximising revenue.

        1. d3vy Silver badge

          Re: Games, anyone?

          "100% of MacOS users have been satisfied"

          Bullshit.

      6. Michael Habel Silver badge

        Re: Games, anyone?

        He's (AC) right you know...

      7. Patrician

        Re: Games, anyone?

        The reason most people stay with Windows is because it supports the software that they want to use, whether that is games or home/office and hey know how to use it. Linux has come on in it's support for games but it's still way behind Windows and there is no Linux equivalent of the Outlook/Word/Excel combination.

        Yes, I know there is Open Office and others and they do work; just not as well or as intuitively for Joe Public I'm afraid. Top all this off with sporadic vendor hardware support and, sometimes, needing to head to console to carry out something that it Windows is just a few mouse clicks, and it's a non-started I'm afraid.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Games, anyone?

          Yes, I know there is Open Office and others and they do work; just not as well or as intuitively for Joe Public I'm afraid.

          I beg to differ. Microsoft removed any kind of "intuitive" when they lumbered the users with the dreaded ribbon. People that had built up years of experience and productivity got screwed overnight with this latest "innovation" and it's been shit ever since - I think you can only claim the current code to be intuitive if you preface that word with "counter".

          That botch job was the exact reason I switched to LibreOffice, but now I use NeoOffice on a Mac because LO seems to consider it beneath its dignity to support the way MacOS allows accented characters to be entered. Not sure why,. but I fear it's a not-invented-here issue.

          Calling MS Office intuitive is IMHO either insulting the intelligence of the reader or merely stated for comic effect.

          1. Danny 14 Silver badge

            Re: Games, anyone?

            microsoft are helping us start looking at Linux as a site altetnative. we are looking at using office 365 as staff outlook fix. that leaves the door open to start getting rid of windows desktops.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Games, anyone?

              "that leaves the door open to start getting rid of windows desktops."

              That's what we did. Now we run Windows on Citrix both on premises and in Azure. Just a Dell Wyse terminal on each desk and true free seating, and easy access to multiple desktops per user.

              The high end Wyse boxes still run Windows of course, but you dont see it. If you dont need that level of enterprise functionality, features and security then the low end ones run some form of Linux.

          2. Voidstorm
            FAIL

            Re: Games, anyone?

            My other half, a career wordprocessing trainer and examiner, still complains about the wretched ribbon changes. It's taken her years to get back to her original level of ease of use with MS Office products.

            It's all about the revenue model; Microsofts contempt for the userbase is clear, but ubiquity trumps everything else.

      8. Ilsa Loving

        Re: Games, anyone?

        Do they really like windows though? If you look at PC sales numbers, they've been outright collapsing year over year over year. There was already a slump prior to the release of Windows 10, but since Windows 10 those numbers have been in freefall.

        Meanwhile, non-Windows machines (ie: Apple. Chromebook, etc) have been either steady or increasing.

        Microsoft fucked up Windows 10 so utterly badly that they have caused the Great PC Depression.

    2. J. R. Hartley Silver badge

      Re: Games, anyone?

      Non x86 options? I hate to break it to you but...

    3. Remy Redert

      Re: Games, anyone?

      Valve's not going to charge Windows 10 S users anything, because Steam's not on the Windows app store and probably will never be, since it's a direct competitor to Microsoft's store. Instead, Windows users will switch out of S mode. And if S mode becomes the default on new installs or even better, if Microsoft wants to charge money to switch people out of it, EU anti-trust is going to come down like several tons of bricks.

      Building Steam for ARM's probably not too difficult, but how much work is it going to be to convert games to ARM? Win32/64 to Linux isn't generally too hard, especially if it's something you've considered from the start, but from there to ARM is quite a leap.

      1. Someone Else Silver badge
        Coat

        Re: Games, anyone?

        [...] if Microsoft wants to charge money to switch people out of it, EU anti-trust is going to come down like several tons of bricks.

        Are those metric tons?

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Games, anyone?

      "then watch that gaming market share switch quickly to Linux!"

      The cutting edge gamers that might switch to Linux also tend to be very performance sensitive. And Windows 10 + Direct X 12 like it or not is currently the fastest platform for gaming. Not to mention that lots of games dont support linux.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Games, anyone?

        The cutting edge gamers

        ... aren't interested in the games on the Windows Store.

        In fact, Linux is much better for gaming compared to windows-store-only games. Seriously, have you even used the store?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Games, anyone?

          ". aren't interested in the games on the Windows Store."

          So they just wont use S mode then. Hardly rocket science.

  3. James O'Shea
    Devil

    interesting

    I have two major application suites and an old piece of hardware which require Windows.The hardware will be replaced by, at latest, the end of the year (it really is quite elderly) and the software will be run from a VM under macOS or some Linux distro, a VM which will have no Internet connectivity. I want to see how Windows deals with a total inability to update, ever, and thus to download whatever idiocy Microsoft thinks up next, because it simply can't call home. Ever.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: interesting

      VmWare used to have a converter that could make a virtual machine from a physical. If that works your move can be quite simple.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: interesting [re:VMWare Physical to Virtual]

        Physical <--> Virtual is still possible under VMWare.

        I sure there are other tools/Utils that can do the same.

        Very Easy and unless you have strange/exotic hardware needs, it will all run perfectly.

        I run VM's to test configs and then when proven install on the real physical machine.

        Don't have any problems and the virtual machine runs smoother and quicker than the 'Real' machine :)

        1. Bent Metal

          Re: interesting [re:VMWare Physical to Virtual]

          If you're going from Windows, then Mark Russinovich's Disk2VHD may work for you. I've used it on a Win7 -> VirtualBox migration and it constructed the VHD copy easily. Though getting that to then run under VirtualBox took some time; YMMV.

          For the curious: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/downloads/disk2vhd

  4. Winkypop Silver badge
    Pirate

    Windows S

    Superfluous?

    1. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Coat

      Re: Windows S

      Super-universal-windows-application-nonsense

      (even though the concept makes me lose my stomach contents)

      Microsoft can hoover everything you've ever processed

      And advertise to you until you fall into their vortex!

      [ok hard to find rhyming words for 'nonsense']

  5. bigfoot780

    Laptops

    Well speaking from a security point of view. S mode makes sense. You do need a RDS farm for all the Win32 stuff. If your using Office 365 you'd hope Onedrive and office would behave the same way as in non S mode. Thinking particularly of laptops that are off site.

    1. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

      Re: Laptops

      Well speaking from a security point of view. S mode makes sense

      As in "no-one will ever want to switch it on so it'll be secure"? If you think that Microsoft will be any good at curating the Microsoft Store to prevent malicious apps then I have a bridge to sell you..

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Microsoft’s business models require stealing and reselling personal data.

    ....."When we talk about why we're upgrading the Windows 10 install base, why is that upgrade free? MS CFO asked during a meeting with Wall Street analysts. These are all new monetization opportunities once a PC is sold. Microsoft's strategy is to go low on consumer Windows licenses, hoping that that will boost device sales, which will in turn add to the pool of potential customers for 'Advertising'".....

    ....."CEO Nadella has referred to the customer revenue potential as 'lifetime value' in the past -- and did so again last week during the same meeting with Wall Street -- hinting at Microsoft's strategy to make more on the back end of the PC acquisition process. The more customers, the more money those customers will bring in as they view 'Ads'".....

    https://www.computerworld.com/article/2917799/microsoft-windows/microsoft-fleshes-out-windows-as-a-service-revenue-strategy.html

    1. LDS Silver badge
      Mushroom

      Re: Microsoft’s business models require stealing and reselling personal data.

      Consumer IT is becoming a huge ads platform only. And what is worrying, that won't end well...

      1. JeffyPoooh Silver badge
        Pint

        "...becoming a huge ads platform..."

        Each morning, spend a few minutes browsing for skimpy bikinis. For the rest of the day, you'll be bombarded with quite lovely advertising.

    2. Snake
      Big Brother

      Re: Microsoft’s business models require stealing and reselling personal data.

      Wait: because Android is any different?? o.O Tell that to the app developers.

      Win10S sounds like, pretty much, Android Plus, and I can't see why people are in such a fuss. You live with the paradigm every day, every time you pull your phone out of your pocket, and billions of people seem happy with it. But, from MS, it is the Devil incarnate!!

      And how many people hating on Win10 actually use it, on a day-to-day basis? I am in charge of Win7 machines plus a single Win10 machine at work; for personal use, I have two Win7 laptops plus two Win10 touchscreen laptops.

      And, you know what? Win10 on touchscreen is actually...quite acceptable. Yeees, it does some things stupidly (why dual Control Panels? Really??!) But, overall, it is enjoyable to use, especially when I lend it to the non-hardcore. However, Win10 on the non-touchscreen desktop machine? I hate it to bits.

      Maybe those of you bringing your legacy, non-touchscreen devices into Win10, and having a less than fruitful experience, need to try it on the hardware it was designed for?

      1. Someone Else Silver badge
        WTF?

        Re: Microsoft’s business models require stealing and reselling personal data.

        Maybe it is Android Plus...but it's not Mint.

        And anybody who has the gall to attempt to escape SatNad/Ballmer/Gates's slimy clutches is not about to countenance Android, Android Plus, Android++, Android--, or any other flavor thereof.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Microsoft’s business models require stealing and reselling personal data.

        because Android is any different??

        *face palm*

        Windows is (or was) a desktop OS used to create content, where Android is mostly a mobile OS used to consume.

        Logically, you're suggesting it's appropriate to attach a keyboard, mouse + monitor to an Android device to get the same experience as Windows 10.

        Maybe those of you bringing your legacy, non-touchscreen devices into Win10, and having a less than fruitful experience, need to try it on the hardware it was designed for?

        So what do you suggest the majority of the arse-at-desk workforce use to do actual work?

        A tablet? Laptop? All-in-one?

        Sure. The ergonomics of a traditional computer are already barely tolerable.

      3. Updraft102 Silver badge

        Re: Microsoft’s business models require stealing and reselling personal data.

        And how many people hating on Win10 actually use it, on a day-to-day basis?

        I don't use Windows 10 at all because I hate it. Why would I use something I hate? Before Windows 10, I used to use Windows on a day-to-day basis, and that could have been Windows 10 in there if Windows 10 wasn't the piece of excrement that it is. Now I don't use Windows on a day-to-day basis anymore, as I could see "the last version of Windows ever" didn't leave me any choice.

        Maybe those of you bringing your legacy, non-touchscreen devices into Win10, and having a less than fruitful experience, need to try it on the hardware it was designed for?

        The hardware it was designed for sucks balls and is vastly inferior to the hardware 99% of Windows users already have (what you call "legacy" hardware). I don't usually resort to such crude language, but sometimes nothing less can get a point across. Windows 10 should have been designed for the hardware people were actually going to use it on. Touchscreens bring nothing useful to the table for non-handheld displays... they're an ergonomic nightmare compared to traditional mice, and even if that was not the case, they're still slower, less precise, and require terrible UI compromises to make them work (to the extent that they do).

        If MS keeps designing its OS for a hardware regime that 99% of Windows users don't have, and that most of them wouldn't want anyway, then yeah, of course we're going to call it out for being a piece of crap. As you said, Windows 10 is terrible on mouse and keyboard PCs.

        I'm happy with Windows 7, but its days are numbered. Otherwise, I would just stick with it and forget that Windows 10 ever happened. Thing is, I'm also happy with Linux Mint, and it has a much longer life ahead. Microsoft has made the choice for me.

      4. Roland6 Silver badge

        Re: Microsoft’s business models require stealing and reselling personal data.

        Maybe those of you bringing your legacy, non-touchscreen devices into Win10, and having a less than fruitful experience, need to try it on the hardware it was designed for?

        Win10 sucks with or without a touchscreen, as did Win8.

        If you really believe that Win10 needs a touchscreen, then what you are effectively saying is that Win10 is unsuitable for the majority of enterprise deployments that MS need to make the books balance...

  7. John Tserkezis

    "Belfiore wrote that "if a customer does want to switch out of S mode, they will be able to do so at no charge, regardless of edition."

    So, in other words, you can have a knobbled and restricted version of windows called S Mode, for the same cost as the regular more flexible standard issue Windows 10?

    1. Phil Kingston Silver badge

      Not just that - the "switch out of" bit suggests that the default for a newly unboxed PC will be S mode. Let's see how that goes down.

      1. Updraft102 Silver badge

        Not just that - the "switch out of" bit suggests that the default for a newly unboxed PC will be S mode. Let's see how that goes down.

        And to what lengths will Microsoft go to make sure that the computer OEMs don't change this? People buy Windows PCs to run Windows programs, and a Windows PC that cannot do that is an angry tech support call waiting to happen. Any sensible OEM will want to pre-switch out of their PCs, and MS no doubt knows this-- yet they claim that new PCs sold will be in S mode. What will MS threaten the OEMs with to make sure this happens? Will we see a repeat of the "Do as we say or you won't get any Windows to sell on your new PCs" threat that MS issued during the browser wars to OEMs who wanted to include Netscape on their new PCs?

        1. PickledAardvark

          "Any sensible OEM will want to pre-switch out of their PCs, and MS no doubt knows this-- yet they claim that new PCs sold will be in S mode."

          Agreed. The economics of PC selling mean that manufacturers pre-install a bunch of crapware on consumer PCs and some equally lousy "added value" applications on business PCs. They are all Win32 applications which won't run in S Mode.

    2. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Unhappy

      I don't know how else I can say this

      "Belfiore wrote that "if a customer does want to switch out of S mode, they will be able to do so at no charge, regardless of edition."

      What the *HELL* was Belfiore *SMOKING* before coming up with THAT?

      (You REALLY shouldn't implement new business ideas that you thought up when you were stoned)

      1. Updraft102 Silver badge

        Re: I don't know how else I can say this

        (You REALLY shouldn't implement new business ideas that you thought up when you were stoned)

        Funny, I was thinking something other than being addled by drugs for just a second when you mentioned him being stoned.

    3. Dan 55 Silver badge

      So, in other words, you can have a knobbled and restricted version of windows called S Mode, for the same cost as the regular more flexible standard issue Windows 10?

      That's what it looks like to you. Let's see what OEMs have to pay.

  8. Dan 55 Silver badge

    Which settings screen will S mode be buried in?

    Will it explain what S mode is?

    And will it be more or less predominant than the error message you get leading you to Windows Store if you try to install Libre Office or Steam in S mode?

  9. Andy Tunnah

    How generous!

    When you buy a complete version of W10, they'll let you go back to that version without charging you. Does their largess know no bounds?!

  10. cb7

    Hahahaha not

    Nearly 3 years later and Metro Apps (even the system settings panel) simply disappear from view when they hit a snag.

    I mean wtf!! Whatever happened to meaningful error messages or elegant code that deals with little snafus?

    Windows is in danger of disappearing up its own jacksie.

    1. sabroni Silver badge

      Re: Whatever happened to meaningful error messages

      Users don't generally need or understand those "meaningful" error messages. They should be logged somewhere, of course, but showing them to the user adds no value in nearly all cases. They don't care why it's broken, they just want it fixed.

      1. JohnFen Silver badge

        Re: Whatever happened to meaningful error messages

        "but showing them to the user adds no value in nearly all cases"

        This is not even close to being true. Meaningful error messages are invaluable to the people those users will be asking for help.

      2. Roland6 Silver badge

        Re: Whatever happened to meaningful error messages

        > They should be logged somewhere, of course, but showing them to the user adds no value in nearly all cases.

        Not had to fault find Windows in a while? Having problems currently with Win10 where the only error message with any information in is the one displayed to the user by a system tray icon, nothing at all in the event logs...

  11. Sean OConnor

    I can totally see MS's thinking. Maybe for us nerds on these forums we hate the thought of restrictions, but if I was to get a Windows computer for say my kids I'd definitely go for Windows S.

    I love that my iPad is totally locked down so when I hand it to them I know there's nothing they can do to bollocks it up.

    Before you slag off MS for Windows S you ought to realise that people do exist outside our nerdy Register bubble - and they're a danger to themselves!

    1. whitepines Silver badge

      That may be, however by isolating them with pervasive spying tech they have no control over, be aware that they may just decide to pass laws against us "dangerous" "hacker / pirate / thief" types coming near a computer without strict licensing and government oversight....

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Well, anyone who loves their locked-down, walled-garden Apple devices is bound to love a locked-down, walled-garden Microsoft OS, aren't they? It's so comforting being wrapped in cotton wool and drip-fed what nanny thinks you should have.

    3. Wade Burchette Silver badge

      There is a difference between iPad and Windows

      The iPad started off locked down and started off fresh. There are no apps 20 years old that you would need to put on it. Windows, on the other hand, started out open and there are programs 20 years old that people still need to use. The same reason why Windows on ARM will never succeed is the same reason why Windows S will never succeed: People use Windows because they want to and can use programs released a long time ago.

      1. Adrian 4 Silver badge

        Re: There is a difference between iPad and Windows

        What I find bizarre about all these attempts to force users away from their beloved old programs is that it's only those old programs that make it desirable to keep running windows. Without compatibility as a lock-in, why would anyone stay with it ?

    4. Remy Redert

      When I set up a computer for my little brother, who is mentally handicapped and has a long history of bricking Windows installs, I installed Debian linux on it and set him up with a user account with minimal rights.

      4 years later, it's still running. It needs my attention for a few minutes every few weeks to authorize updates. My brother cannot install, download or otherwise mess with anything important. He can't even change the settings for the wireless network, only turn it off and on.

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      It's one thing to be concerned about security and your kids watching porn etc.

      It's another thing to force upon users a draconian locked down walled garden, leveraging on Windows 10 users to grow the third ('turd') ecosystem of Microsoft's products and services.

      Microsoft is all but dead in mobile, and what they're doing now is analogous to the concept of 'jailbreaking' or 'rooting' your device to gain additional privileges. This is a PC, not a phone.

    6. JohnFen Silver badge

      "and they're a danger to themselves!"

      This level of contempt for users is a large part of the reason that software is becoming increasingly terrible for everybody, including the non-technical.

    7. JohnFen Silver badge

      " if I was to get a Windows computer for say my kids I'd definitely go for Windows S."

      Not me. I'd avoid it like the plague. One of the goals I'd have in mind would be to help my kids learn how to use computers. Windows S wouldn't go very far in teaching them that.

  12. mark l 2 Silver badge

    No doubt MS will be pushing for the OEMs to deliver new PCs with S mode already activated and it wouldn't surprise me if a 'security' update for existing Windows 10 installs suddenly switched on S mode for all home editions.

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Another thing on W10, MS stop fucking about with my power settings when you do an update as I DO NOT WANT fast shutdown enable as it thrashes SSDs (I have 16gb ram) and I dual boot with Linux.

    Wankers.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      fast shutdown - the bane of my life.

      Have you ever tried explaining to your average non-technical PC user that shutting down a computer doesn't actually shut it down?

      1. JohnFen Silver badge

        Yes, I have. I've found it's a pretty easy thing to get them to understand.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          @JohnFen,

          Well you must have a better user base than I do - government IT workers who use the same programs day in and day out and don't like change. Swap :-)

          1. JohnFen Silver badge

            Liking change and understanding how things work are two different things. Besides, the non-shutdown shutdown isn't a new thing, so aversion to change doesn't really enter into it.

  14. Dave K Silver badge

    Majority to use S mode?

    Really? This prediction coming from a company that predicted that users would accept the Metro Start screen in Windows 8? The same company that predicted that a locked down and effectively S-Mode-only ARM tablet would be a success (Windows RT powered surface)?

    MS haven't exactly done a stellar job lately of predicting what their customers want.

    My prediction, a minority of people will use it. Businesses predominantly won't use it as most of them use desktop apps that won't work in S mode (I don't know of any businesses that run everything they need from the Microsoft Store), most home users won't use it because again, they often run apps that aren't available in S mode (games being a big example for many). The only people that will use it is very restricted use scenarios such as some schools, public terminals and your old gran who just uses The Internet to access iPlayer and BBC News...

    Note, not necessarily knocking S Mode here, just MS's daft prediction...

    1. Fihart

      Re: Majority to use S mode?

      "MS haven't exactly done a stellar job lately of predicting what their customers want."

      MS clearly don't know what customers want because their business model is based on customers having no choice.

      Doubtless they take comfort in the car stylists' mantra which states that the public either don't know what they want or simply don't like change -- so the designers' job is to build something eye catching that customers will, eventually, accept as normal.

      For example of going too far, see BMW 5 Series body shape for 2003 to 2010 and blander offering which followed it.

      MS went too far with Windows 8 -- but are too arrogant to notice or care.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Majority to use S mode?

        Hubris aside: Microsoft is insanely jealous of Apple and Google, of both their walled gardens and their duopoly in mobile devices.

        Microsoft wished it had the brand power of Apple, or the algorithm/ ad delivery prowess of Google. Everything Microsoft had done in recent years (Surface, Skype revamp, AI chatbot, Office 365, Windows Store) was predicated on that.

      2. Richard Plinston Silver badge

        Re: Majority to use S mode?

        > MS went too far with Windows 8

        The whole point of Windows 8 'Metro' (later 'Modern') was that Windows Phone was not selling as well as predicted (outsell iPhone by 2014!). Consultants opined that it was because the WP interface was not well known. The solution was to make that interface 'the most well known' by forcing it down the throats of all desktop users until they _demanded_ it on their phones.

        Now, it seems, some consultants have suggested that the reason that to 'Store' is not being used enough is because users haven't tried it and discovered that they love it. 10S and Mode-S is to force it down the users' throats until they demand that all software developers put their software there.

      3. JohnFen Silver badge

        Re: Majority to use S mode?

        "mantra which states that the public either don't know what they want or simply don't like change -- so the designers' job is to build something eye catching that customers will, eventually, accept as normal."

        I am continually dismayed at the increase in this attitude in the software industry. The sentiment is insulting, dismissive, hostile, and -- perhaps worst of all -- inaccurate.

        At least in other industries, the wankers that harbor such attitudes towards their customers are ashamed enough to not express the sentiment in public.

      4. Updraft102 Silver badge

        Re: Majority to use S mode?

        MS went too far with Windows 8 -- but are too arrogant to notice or care.

        They did indeed, but at least 8 is still an OS that serves the user rather than its creator, under all that metro crap. You can use aftermarket tools to make 8 pretty decent... Classic Shell (whose author has been driven to exhaustion trying to keep up with Windows 10's changes), Old New Explorer, a custom theme of your choice, and a bunch of tweaking (through manual registry edits or programs like Winaero Tweaker), and you've got yourself a decent OS once again. One that doesn't have huge, unwanted updates twice a year, one that gives you control over updates, one that is not in permanent beta because of excessive code churn... it's ridiculous how much work it takes to turn their product (which is there to be used, right?) into something that actually is usable, but at least it is feasible to do so.

        Then there's Windows 10. It changes too much, too fast to ever think you've gotten a handle on all the dumb stuff. You get it to where you want it, and then another update comes along and breaks all your changes, reinstalls the crap you took pains to remove, reverts your settings, and the cycle begins anew, only this time the tricks you used to get rid of the crap you just cannot abide may not work, and it may take a few months before anyone discovers a new way of creatively breaking Windows so that it serves the user instead of Microsoft.

        Referring back to that original quote in the first line of this reply... it's not that Microsoft is unaware of what people want. It's that they don't find it relevant information! They did learn a lesson from the twin failures of Windows Vista and Windows 8, but it wasn't the one we would have hoped. Rather than them learning, finally, that if you give people a crap version of Windows, those people will reject it, Microsoft learned that if you give people a choice to accept or reject your product, those people may choose to reject it. The lesson they learned was not to stop giving people crap versions of Windows... it was to stop giving people a choice.

    2. JohnFen Silver badge

      Re: Majority to use S mode?

      "MS haven't exactly done a stellar job lately of predicting what their customers want."

      I think that's because Microsoft doesn't care one whit what users want. They care about what Microsoft wants and think that they can make users want it through sheer force of will and marketing.

  15. DailyLlama
    FAIL

    wtaf?

    What company administrator is going to let their users install anything from the store, rather than a carefully controlled and tested SCCM environment?

    I've just finished deplying my Group Policy to disable the store and all the crappy "home" features that we don't want people using in our Windows 10 environment...

    1. Mage Silver badge
      Alert

      Re: wtaf?

      I found that oddly if the Windows Firewall is disabled (in favour of using ONLY the firewall on the router), that the Windows store didn't work and most "Metro style" apps inc Edge didn't work either!

      1. JohnFen Silver badge

        Re: wtaf?

        I always disable WIndows firewall, and have never noticed that. Probably because I don't use the Windows Store or Metro-style apps. If disabling the firewall means that those things don't work, that just makes me happier about disabling Windows firewall.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: wtaf?

      I hope it's possible that you totally remove the Windows Store, not just disable it. Heard it could be done with Powershell on the Enterprise edition, but I'm not that technically inclined to know the details.

      1. Updraft102 Silver badge

        Re: wtaf?

        It is possible in Win 8.1 for sure, since that is the configuration mine is in right now. The last time I ran Windows 10 (Pro), it also had the store removed forcibly, along with all the other apps... whether it is still possible now is not known to me. I gave up on Windows 10 right after I succeeded in ripping all the apps out and discovering that it still ran just fine... you'd think that right after such a victory I would have been enthused to keep my "fixed" Windows, but it had the opposite effect upon me. I thought about how much intentional damage I had to inflict upon my own system just to get it to somewhat match what I expect from an OS... from that point forward, any little glitch in any bit of software would immediately make me wonder if it was because I ripped out so much stuff. There would be no way to test it but to put that stuff back in, and how would you ever do that, once non-removable things have been subjected to acts of extreme violence?

        Even if that was never an issue, how would I possibly know that my precariously balanced house of cards would continue to stand when the changes are coming fast and furious? It became evident that one of a few things would happen... the least likely of which by far being the only acceptable outcome, that my modifications would hold and the system would remain stable and usable.

        That's when I ditched Windows 10, which until then was only on a test PC so that I could keep an eye on it and deploy it more broadly once I was convinced that it was worth having. It was now clear that this was exceedingly unlikely. When the story is over, close the book, said the wise Chinese man in one of those Herbie (sans LiLo, from the 60s or 70s) movies. I repurposed my Windows 10 machine's SSD as a Linux Mint boot device for my main PC, which had been until then primarily a Windows machine with its own SSD.

        The migration is going well, with me spending nearly all my time in Linux, with the excursions into Windows becoming less common. Nearly everything I HAD to have Windows for is now set up in a Windows VM. Mentally, I now think of my PCs as Linux machines with Windows as a secondary OS, not the reverse. Eventually, the plan is to just have them be Linux machines, with Windows caged in its VM, but otherwise not part of the equation. I won't... I can't turn back... all I have to do is consider the state of Windows 10 and my resolve is restored.

        I've been a Windows user for more than 25 years, but Windows 10 was the bridge too far.

  16. Ian Johnston

    The Triumph Herald "S" was a cut-down version with rubber mats instead of carpets and no heater. I have a Casio camera with a "simple" mode, charmingly if tactlessly indicated with a green shamrock icon.

    1. Fihart

      "....charmingly if tactlessly indicated with a green shamrock icon"

      You sure that's not the Macro setting ?

    2. PickledAardvark

      "The Triumph Herald "S" was a cut-down version with rubber mats instead of carpets and no heater."

      Given the hefty horse hair insulation and carpets on a standard Herald, it would have been pretty noisy inside.

    3. David Tallboys

      My Casio EX-V8 camera has the same shamrock. And a nice little camera it is too. Dozens if not hundreds of pre-sets and favourite settings whereas even most DSLRs only give you a couple.

      Now, as for this Microsoft nonsense; I read somewhere that Google are doing something to make android restricted, now Microsoft with S - so have they both agreed the Apple walled garden was the best approach after all?

      I've tried Linux, pre-installed on a £200 Dell laptop I bought a year ago, but having to type pseudo this that or the other is not for me - but it did prompt me to have a go at running an old DOS game (Carriers At War) from 1991 - on an old XP machine.

      How's that for a ramble? :)

      1. SeanC4S

        Try some version of (look, no passwords) Puppy Linux.

        http://puppylinux.com/

    4. Richard Plinston Silver badge

      > The Triumph Herald "S" was a cut-down version

      The real 'cut-down' version was originally, when it first came out, you could get one as a kitset (and didn't have to pay the 45% purchase tax on cars).

  17. iron Silver badge

    "Windows 10 S... running only apps from the Windows Store

    "We expect the majority of customers to enjoy the benefits of Windows 10 in S mode,"

    Since the majority of users have many non-store apps and few if any store apps I predict almost no one will use it.

  18. Simon Harris Silver badge

    Windows 10 S ... drives people to Edge and Bing

    Remember that lawsuit in the XP days that forced Microsoft to put a pop-up on new installations saying Internet Explorer wasn't the only browser, and here are all the rest?

    Maybe time that was reinstated!

  19. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    with S mode enabled

    by default

    as revelead in his further comms.

    p.s. I don't get it, the EU had a 100-year long spat with MS bundling IE on previous Windows (was it xp?), and kind of won, but I've heard nothing on the latest, already 2-year old MS turf grab, aka Windows 10. I wonder, if they start asking relevant questions by 2035...

  20. Unicornpiss Silver badge

    Computing as a vacation..

    Running Windows is like taking a vacation at a crappy theme park, with crowds, trash, noise, marketing, deep-fried nasty food, long lines, guided tours, and $4 bottles of water.

    Running Linux is like taking your vacation by a peaceful lake, next to a beautiful forest, and near a sleepy little hamlet, where you do things at your own pace, and no one bothers you at all, but make sure you brought most everything you need with you.

    1. Richard Crossley
      Coat

      Re: Computing as a vacation..

      Mac OS is like a vacation at a 5 star resort. You can have everything, if you pay for it.

      Mines the one with no money in the pockets, I vacation in the Linux woods.

      1. TheVogon Silver badge

        Re: Computing as a vacation..

        "I vacation in the Linux woods."

        And i bet the surprises dont involve teddy bears...

    2. Teiwaz Silver badge

      Re: Computing as a vacation..

      Hmm, going by that analogy, 'Linux is never going to be popular with the young or feckless.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Computing as a vacation..

        > Linux is never going to be popular with the young or feckless.

        Even better.

  21. Richard Crossley
    FAIL

    Returns

    I can see this being a fail.

    My folks, octogenarians, they've been using PCs for about 15 years. Windows 2000 and Windows XP. Imagine they go to the store, I'll be generous and say John Lewis and purchase a new desktop with Windows 10 and S mode deployed out of the box.

    They set this up and try and run their beloved "Spider", some card game that I can't fathom but made by Microsoft. The version in the App Store is the current version, but not the one *THEY* want.

    Since this doesn't do what they want my guess would be to return it, because:

    1) It's new

    2) Doesn't meet the requirements

    3) I'm not going to talk them through some random Windows 10 SNAFU, because it will be complicated

    4) I'm not getting a plane and flying a 12,000 mile round trip to fix MS Windows and MS aren't going to repay my time/costs

    1. Teiwaz Silver badge

      Re: Returns

      Didn't the article mention something about being able to switch 'modes' should the user so wish....?

      Although, I was entertained by a mate on getting a new laptop with windows poking around the welcome screen for almost a quarter hour looking for the login button (might have been Windows 8) and he was in IT...(I was no help, been a Linux user since the millenium).

      Will they know how to switch, will it require an extra payment, and will a future update reverse it...?

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Happy

      Re: Returns

      You can install Solitaire as a standalone if you can find a Win7 install.

      I know, i did it for my folks.

      https://windows.gadgethacks.com/how-to/bring-back-microsofts-classic-no-bloat-games-windows-for-free-0166605/

      I didn't download the .exe variant, do so at your own peril.

  22. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Wait? You mean if PC makers would just preload with Linux the sheeple would go along? Yeah, not buying it. Like one of the commenters wrote, most drank the Kool-Aid long ago and have fixed on Windows as the One True Grail long ago. A percentage are led away by the Jobsian shiny. Those who even care about choice are a thin reed in the wind, often constrained by the dictates of tool makers like Adobe (what? you want that in metric?). S mode would be a dangerous move in an educated society that valued choice, but that's not the world we live in. As long as the big players like Adobe and the game companies get their products into the MS store, you won't hear any complaints from the drones.

    1. Teiwaz Silver badge

      You take the high road, I'll take the low road.

      The 'sheeple' will follow the path of least resistance, the easiest road.

      Apple have managed to make their brand and easy road to take, at least for many, compared to both windows and 'Linux.

      To choose 'Linux, you either need to be running too or desperate to run from the alternatives. Most people don't care enough. Enough phone operating systems have been given the ol' yeller treatment because they failed due to lack of apps people wanted, so restricting to UWP could do the same damage to windows.

      The Windows sear might be uncomfortable and annoying, but not enough to force them out of the familiar comfort zone. The Windows seat has been getting increasingly uncomfortable for many since 7 is being phased out, but it's still mostly techies complaining.

      1. Craig100

        Re: You take the high road, I'll take the low road.

        " it's still mostly techies complaining."

        Most non-techy people I know whinge like hell about their computers. It's dreadful because they feel so powerless. You see them thrashing about causing all sorts of damage trying to work out what these popup warnings are telling them in tech-speak. Most won't understand what S mode is and certainly won't know how to switch it off. MS devs/marketeers live in the "Redmond bubble", what we now call an echo chamber. Until they stop promoting people to their level of incompetence and keep experienced people at the coal face this will continue I'm sure. Blame HR and Marketing ;)

    2. John Sanders

      @AC

      >> Like one of the commenters wrote, most drank the Kool-Aid long ago and have fixed on Windows as the One True Grail long ago.

      No, the industry decided to do that because MS is an ecosystem where you can make money in a traditional fashion that normies understand well: "I give you Windows/Service for £X and you resell at £X+100".

      The industry locked themselves with MS around their necks and what the industry decides makes them more money with the least effort is pushed into the masses.

      And the masses like convenience above all, Windows gives them plenty of that.

      This dynamic is called market inertia and it is hard to overcome. But the question is, does it need to be? certainly not for the normies.

      It is you IT professional who should start looking at other stuff, not because MS is evil and wants to control your computer, it is because you who will benefit the most from learning FOSS stuff.

    3. Mage Silver badge

      PC makers would just preload with Linux

      They did for Netbooks, with varying degrees of success. I have one that now has CF card adaptor instead of the too small Flash PCB and a big CF card. Running Linux Mint 18.3 Mate fine.

      MS paid the makers to put on XP, which eventually along with price & Spec increases and better tablets killed the niche.

      I have two other Netbooks of various vintage now updated (not re-installed) from XP to 17.1, to 17.3 and then last week to 18.1 and after to Linux Mint 18.3 Mate.

      All using mad broadcom WiFi drivers (which admittedly had to be manually added to 17.1 clean install over XP and fine since.

      OTH recent Win 10 upgrade of Win10 couldn't install the sound card drivers properly! Uninstal in Device Manager and then "search" Windows.old for drivers succeeded perfectly, whereas search on Windows update or automatically didn't fix it.

  23. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    ...people will want S mode just as much as they wanted Zune and Windows Phones

  24. Captain Hogwash Silver badge
    Megaphone

    BELL END FURY

    BELL END FURY

  25. Omgwtfbbqtime Silver badge
    Facepalm

    Another good idea...

    ...from the people who thought TIFKAM on a desktop without touch was a good idea.

    1. DrBed

      Re: Another good idea...

      TIFKAM LOL... Idiocracy.

      I bought Win 10 "Pro" 1 year ago, today I can't turn off telemetry, auto updates etc there.

      It means useless Paint 3D, Candy Crush (again), Cortana etc shite reinstalled, against my will.

      "Pro" means "we fooled you again".

      Actually I'm not using that PC anymore for months, just because of Win 10. Mint at laptop suits me well. I will use s/n of that Win10 for virtualbox at next Linux PC, probably Mint again.

      Go to hell with or w/o S edition, MS.

  26. steviebuk Silver badge

    Most people....

    ...will run in S mode.

    Erm, NO, just no. This is just a poor attempt to convince people to use and write programs for the Windows Store that is still continuing to fail.

  27. John Sanders
    Linux

    Windows users will absolutely love...

    Their new Windows 10 chastity mode, Locked and submissive into the MS ecosystem they will feel warm and secured in MS arms.

    Fortunately for people who like to have control over their computers there is Penguinland which keeps growing larger and greener.

    1. Captain Hogwash Silver badge
      Coat

      Re: Penguinland which keeps growing larger and greener

      That'll be the climate change.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Windows users will absolutely love...

      until of course you have to attempt to get a printer to work, spend several hours trying, then give up as it's just not worth the hassle.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Windows users will absolutely love...

        get a printer to work

        Actually, I've set up 2 shitty printers from Argos with Linux, both wireless and it was a piece of piss. Just the printer driver was installed, without any "value added" shit.

        A Cannon MG2950 is my current. I installed it on Mint and Ubuntu while I was waiting for the Windows machine to finish finding its own arse.

        1. Teiwaz Silver badge

          Re: Windows users will absolutely love...

          A Cannon MG2950 is my current. I installed it on Mint and Ubuntu while I was waiting for the Windows machine to finish finding its own arse.

          Usually, yes. I had a Canon MX350 - nothing but a huge pain after I went to 64 bit - of course also lack of drivers for windows after 8 as well - guess Canon would prefer i buy a new printer every few years*

          * hmm, might be cheaper than the ink cartridges....

        2. Timmy B Silver badge

          Re: Windows users will absolutely love...

          "Actually, I've set up 2 shitty printers from Argos with Linux, both wireless and it was a piece of piss. Just the printer driver was installed, without any "value added" shit."

          Perhaps that's where I've been going wrong - I've failed dramatically twice with two expensive Samsung wireless laser jobbers. If it takes more than 20 minutes then I don't bother and write off that as another Linux has failed me again test.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Windows users will absolutely love...

        I like the downvotes....

        Ricoh Laser printer.

        2 hours trying to get to work. Tried things such as the OpenPrinting.org

        Pretty EVERY forum said the same for the model....give up and buy a different printer.

        Reluctantly went back to Win10, worked first time.

        I didn't even get to attempt exotic things such as graphics tablets.

        1. Timmy B Silver badge

          Re: Windows users will absolutely love...

          "I like the downvotes....

          Ricoh Laser printer."

          I like the idea of Linux and every so often I do a test. I take my last laptop - whatever it is - and I try to install whatever seems to be the flavour of the month distro on it as well as Ubuntu. I tend to but Dell laptops so this shouldn't be a struggle. If I have to do anything other than enter some basic information and options and click a few buttons I view it as a failure. After all if the "rubbish" Windows can do this then it should be ok. I have the usual things attached or that I want to use; a printer, a couple of monitors, wireless keyboard, NAS drive etc... etc... So far I haven't had a single success. The best I have ever had is everything working except the wireless card and printer - these seem to be Linux bugbears. I keep trying and one day I'll get it to work and then go on to my phase 2 which is try to replace my usual software and see if it is truly better.

          I fully accept there will be downvotes for me as I'll be viewed as incompetent. Dammit - I used to set up OS/2 for a job - I know difficult installations.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Windows users will absolutely love...

      The irony is that if everything goes through the Windows Store, you need to have a Microsoft account.

      Once you make a Microsoft account and log in, Microsoft's ecosystem's hooks and tendrils latch onto you. Cortana, Bing, Onedrive etc.

      You have essentially relinquished your chastity at that point.

  28. Mage Silver badge

    added a prediction it'll be used by a "majority" of users.

    Only if forced by updates, or defaults on new HW.

  29. Jonathan 27 Bronze badge

    Seeing as you can't run a 3rd-party browser in "S" mode I don't see this coming to pass. Microsoft needs to get over it's fixation on controlling the browser if it wants anyone to take Universal Windows Apps as a serious alternative to win32 applications.

  30. Dave 15

    They might think that... but ...

    This user won't, this user will be using some form of linux DESPITE the fact I really never liked it.

    Windows 10 is a total and utter crock. So slow that my laptop can't keep up with my typing in notepad - despite being better spec'd than the last one. The disk is full ... despite having nothing on it. The update program comes up, crashes, comes up again and interrupts me to tell me it can't because the disk is full, then when I cancel it it puts a stupid pop up across the bottom left of the screen for hours (because it is really so slow it takes hours to draw and undraw)

    Microsoft need to beware as well - I am also going to drop skype in the bin because it keeps deciding to update and after being told to sod off a couple of times decides it will no longer start unless I let it update, the updates are always worse than the original

  31. Milton Silver badge

    Shackled

    My vote is for S=Shackled. This has (duh: of course) absolutely nothing to do with what benefits users: it's yet another sneaky boil-the-frog-slowly step toward snaring users as tightly as possible, taking away options that don't benefit Microsoft, restricting their choices to use any non-MS stuff, stealing their personal data and gradually manouevering the relatively clueless majority into a position where they are merely wallets to be mined, consumers to be told what to buy, faceless, powerless victims whose lives can be sold at 10¢/lb to government without so much as a warrant.

    MS are no more evil than Google, but no less, either: they are driven by blind greed, which is how the modern liberal globalised capitalist corporation is more or less compelled to work in the absence of government regulation enforcing healthy social balance. If your first duty is to shareholders, and your first instinct is to fill your pockets, no other course would be logical. This is the perfectly predictable (and widely predicted) outcome of a "democratic" system which has slowly but steadily been metabolised by corporate avarice. taking advantage of the greed, cowardice and hypocrisy of politicians. It will continue all the while your "elected/gerrymandered representatives" are bought and paid for, right down to their shoeleather, by business.

    So I'm not sure there's much point debating here about Windows' merits, because the mental lardasses, aka victims, who will continue to use it (a) are not listening, (b) wouldn't understand the importance of the issues even if they were.

    Sad as the prospect is ... just save yourselves. Value your privacy and dignity and human rights, and thank your brains for your rare ability to preserve these from the Forces of Darkness. You won't be installing surveillance microphones in your house; you won't be moving to W10 when W7 support expires; you'll continue to block/ignore the unspeakably crummy ads hurled at you by websites; you do know enough to install and use *ix, and/or deploy some Apple if you can afford it; you won't be clicking foolishly on dangerous websites; you know what encryption is and how to use it; and you probably can tell the difference between Fake and News. Welcome to a new elite: sadder, wiser. Enjoy the feeling before they come for you next.

  32. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Haha!

    IIRC, Windows 10 S was initially touted as a viable version of Windows for schools and institutes of learning; the reasoning being that these places need a 'dumbed down' (locked walled garden) version of Windows, there's a demand for it so Microsoft thought it was a good opportunity to eat into Apple iPads' market share.

    I guess probably very few schools want it, and as a face-saving gesture, the PR spin monkeys sought to get all Windows 10 users to partake of this 'feature'. No retreat, just a doubling down on idiocy.

  33. Simon Harris Silver badge
    Thumb Down

    Windows 10 S...

    or how to downgrade your whizzy new PC into a Surface RT.

  34. teknopaul Silver badge

    I see what happened here

    Ms did some market research and found that Apple users actually like the fact that they only have one browser and can only install apps from the app store.

    Thats called "cognitive difference". They paid more than what they should have for their toy so they have to tell themselves stories to justify it.

    Nobody in their right mind wants a device to be restricted. Nobody wants some corp to tell them what software they can install on it.

    People might appreciate a secure software delivery channel. Thats not the same as wanting to be restricted.

    1. WolfFan Silver badge

      Re: I see what happened here

      Ms did some market research and found that Apple users actually like the fact that they only have one browser and can only install apps from the app store.

      You should have done some research. Mac users can have a choice of browsers, including FireFox, Opera, Vivaldi, Chrome, and, of course, Lynx. Mac users can install software from multiple sources; Adobe and Microsoft software, for example is usually not available in the Apple app store. VLC was notoriously removed from the App Store after someone yapped about the license. I just downloaded the latest version from the VLC site.

      iOS device users have limited choices in web browsers. FireFox on iOS is basically a special shell on top of the standard WebKit browser engine. iOS device users can only get apps from the App Store.

      If you're going to compare Microsoft desktop systems to Apple systems, you really should compare to Apple desktop systems, or you look really silly.

      1. Not also known as SC

        Re: I see what happened here

        @WolfFan

        Technopaul might be right though with Ms did some market research and found that Apple users actually like the fact that they only have one browser and can only install apps from the app store.

        Maybe MS research did indicate this even though it is completely wrong - maybe MS are trying to turn Windows into IOS because they don't fully understand the difference between MacOS and IOS (impossible as that seems)? It would explain quite a lot.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I see what happened here

      "cognitive difference"

      It's cognitive dissonance, actually...

  35. Smartypantz

    Good old soothing CDE

    Operating systems from the era where design was meant to enable users:

    http://2.108.137.128/cde-scree-theregister.png

    CDE running with todays issue of "theregister" Look at the soothing and comfortable colors, clear contrasts (apart from the garish website) and thought out icons

  36. Jay Lenovo Silver badge
    Angel

    The old rugged cross, that's my windows

    I for one welcome this new windows based technology.

    Incapable of making a majority of our own decisions, we need an operating system that can focus our energies on the things that matter, things you can't be bothered to understand. Maybe in ways you are not accustomed to doing.

    As we unconsciously contribute our personal information, daily activities, attention to products we may like (as we do all internet connected technology anymore), we can take pleasure in knowing that Microsoft will continue to provide, with what they deem, we need.

    Otherwise if we focused on what we wanted, the latest windows might lead one to anger...and anger leads to hate...and well you know that leads to ....open-source.

  37. JLV Silver badge
    Trollface

    Awesome

    As I am happily looking at telemetry (for our own good so that MS knows what we want), upteen configuration options, many of them unpinnable, configuration options that change from release to release, a Powershell for which I need to look up even the simplest options, configurations that needs to be done through Regedit at times.... Disappearing menus => ribbons. Edge! Bing!

    But fear not. MS finally understood my needs. Make it AppStore-only and everything is solved. I am soooo grateful.

    Belfiore is starting to remind of Sinovksy in how his announcements usually are things that I really, really, want to hear.

  38. tempemeaty
    Alert

    I'll just leave this here...

    Windows 10 Satanic.

    1. Teiwaz Silver badge

      Re: I'll just leave this here...

      Windows 10 Satanic.

      Nahh, that'll attract some users, bikers, metalheads & Brutal Legend fans.

      Anyway, I think apple have the rights to that (Jobs shared that proclivity toward black polonecks also preferred by some satanic ministers).

  39. Jason Hindle

    Translation

    Microsoft made another attempt to get consumers and software suppliers to use their online store; quit immediately when they didn’t get the instant and spectacular results they were expecting? Time for a rethink at the top, I think.

  40. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    No thanks, I am staying with Windows 7

    Windows 7 64-bit is such a great OS, works great with latest AMD Ryzen CPUs.

    M$FT has lost their mind. First their Win8 crap, than their Win10 slurp. Say no to M$FT, its CEO is the worst. I would wish Ballmer come back, for all his faults, his stint at M$FT meant a rather pleasant time from 1999 to 2012 M$FT was very okayish overall. Now M$FT is back in full evil mode.

    1. JcRabbit

      Re: No thanks, I am staying with Windows 7

      I'm a developer who does launchers, utilities, shell enhancements, etc... parts of it needs to dig deep into the OS to accomplish what users want them to do, so they are not your run-of-the-mill vanilla applications. Because of this I have to keep up with OS changes under-the-hood, make sure all the latest updates don't break some key functionality of my applications.

      For now my main development machine is still Windows 7, and I test the software on Windows 10 VMs and also a couple of physical Windows 10 PCs I have here. However, since I do eat my own dog food, this is very different from actually living on Windows 10 for 24/7 - only by immersing yourself in the latest Windows version do you really get a 'feel' for what needs improving.

      So, I will be finally moving my main development machine to Windows 10 soon. But let me tell you this - and this is the whole point of my post - I have been running Windows since the 3.0 days (even paid for the Windows 95 beta, and boy, was it worth it, I loved it!), and in all these years this is the FIRST TIME that instead of being excited to install a new Windows version, I actually DREAD the day I have to do it.

      The transition from XP to Vista was very difficult for most developers, I imagine, but even that was EXCITING! Vista was beautiful and a step in the right direction, it only got a lot of hate because it demanded a lot of the hardware at the time, the new security restrictions broke a lot of older applications, and developers simply weren't really ready for it. But once those wrinkles were eventually ironed out and Windows 7 came out - not much more than a refined and polished version of Vista IMO - users LOVED it. I would say that it was the most loved version of Windows ever, high up there with Windows 95.

      It was so good visually that it essentially killed the Windows customization/skinning market (remember Stardock WindowBlinds?). And so what does Microsoft do? Keep going in the same direction since it proved so popular? Nope, they grow Apple envy and decide to turn Windows into a closed wall garden, which essentially they can only do by killing Win32 and replacing it with *something else* they can control 100% - conveniently forgetting that the only reason Windows was so much more popular than MacOSX was precisely because, unlike the latter, it always was an open environment with a huge priority on backwards compatibility.

      And since Microsoft was never an innovator but instead a sucker for the latest fabs and technologies (abandoning them later just as fast), they then somehow convinced themselves that using RAD for an OS was a really good idea (WTF?!). And so they managed to alienate both Windows users *and* developers. Nice going MS.

      1. Roland6 Silver badge

        Re: No thanks, I am staying with Windows 7

        >So, I will be finally moving my main development machine to Windows 10 soon.

        Suggest you keep that Win7 programmer's workbench system safe, as I expect you will be returning to it when you discover just how much effort it is taking to keep your Win10 workbench stable.

        You know something is very wrong when a vanilla Win10 system corrupts itself and so is unable to auto install Windows updates and requires a full manual re-install...

        1. JcRabbit

          Re: No thanks, I am staying with Windows 7

          @Roland6 > Suggest you keep that Win7 programmer's workbench system safe, as I expect you will be returning to it when you discover just how much effort it is taking to keep your Win10 workbench stable.

          Oh, I'm changing the hardware too, so the Windows 7 machine 'as is' will be sitting right next to the brand new Windows 10 machine.

          You know, just in case. ;)

  41. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Windowless Existence

    The further I move away from Windows, the more light I have in my life.

  42. Howard Hanek Bronze badge
    Childcatcher

    Having a Recent Backup Ready to Hand

    The updates break Windows 10 more often than not......

    1. d3vy Silver badge

      Re: Having a Recent Backup Ready to Hand

      Really?

      I've had ONE issue on one device (out of 5 that I use and 2 for the kids) since upgrading to win 10 and that was fixed by pressing the rollback button and reinstalling the update again.

  43. Chemical Bob
    Windows

    Can someone pleas explain to me...

    ... what this Windows 10 'Ass Mode' is?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Can someone pleas explain to me...

      It locks you into the 3 of the most unwanted things...

      Store-only, Edge-only, Bing-only.

  44. OffBeatMammal

    what would actually be great is if they focussed on cleaning up the mess than is Windows 10 in general. so many control panels it's impossible to know where to adjust things, so much redundant crap that adds no value (and I include Cortana in that), and performance that sucks... macOS still runs just fine on my 2012 MacBookAir, but even a signature edition Win10 install on a Surface Pro is laggy and unreliable.

    the other thing that drives me crazy with Win10 even on their own hardware is that the control keys are essentially crippled because (ignoring the fact they're an inconsistent mess even within MS apps) they rely on keys that require modifiers to get to on the Surface Pro keyboard is even simple things become arcane tasks

    I actually use an iPad and a bluetooth keyboard for a lot of things now, only really reach for the Mac when I am coding. The only remaining Windows machine I have is an Intel NUC running Windows for Plex and that's as locked down, services killed, automated and scripted so I never have to actually touch it as I can make it.

  45. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I can hardly wait!

    S Mode? Exciting! I've really been loving the sophisticated surveillance feature that foils any and all attempts to block it! I can appreciate that this feature is thorough and complete for our benefit! And man, that half-finished System Settings is looking so sleek and concise! I never knew I could enjoy using it to launch Control Panel tools for non-trivial stuff! I'm definitely looking forward to saving battery power and limiting myself to almost no useful software, or alternative versions of software made by people/companies that I've never even heard of! Thanks Microsoft! I'm sure we'll all hate not being able to install Chrome the right way... But let's try to be optimistic! Installing Chrome in S mode will be an interesting and fun puzzle right? We can all look forward to that! And hey, we'll magically save battery power somehow! So it's totally worth it.

    That battery power feature though... When switching off S mode, does it run infinite loops on all the processors to ensure poorer battery life or something? Or does S mode make the PC run in an identical fashion as the train wreck that is my Windows 10 phone? I don't see why S mode should provide power benefits otherwise.

    1. Teiwaz Silver badge

      Re: I can hardly wait!

      alternative versions of software made by people/companies that I've never even heard of

      Good training for Linux then....

      with fewer 'companies' though....

  46. Stoke the atom furnaces

    How is this going to differentiate Wndows from ChromeOS?

    Looks like another flat-footed MS copy of a competitors product to add to Bing, Edge, Windows Phone and half a hundred other projects that should have been strangled before seeing the light of day.

  47. Zippy's Sausage Factory
    Unhappy

    In other words, "We'll keep 'accidentally' turning it on after every update, and make it really hard to turn off again"

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      What you really meant !!!

      In other words, "We'll keep 'Deliberately' turning it on after every update, and make it impossible* to turn off again"

      FTFY

      *I fully expect that after a month or two the ability to turn it off will be removed, due to popular demand etc etc :)

  48. martinusher Silver badge

    Windows is close to unusable

    I do a fair bit of work using Texas Instruments's Code Composer Studio, an integrated development environment built on Eclipse. M employer is a Windows shop and over the years I've learned to live with -- or, more accurately, work around the various foibles and shortcomings of this platform. Things are getting increasingly difficult, though, because of changes to both Windows and corporate IT policy. Put simply, Microsoft has never managed to shake loose from its MS-DOS origins and the collected baggage from this plus the layers of security slathered on top to try and fix those basic shortcomings make it difficult to do any useful work. One example of random problems is that despite USB being a mature technology Microsoft has yet to figure out how its supposed to work -- it treats identical devices in different hub ports as different units (requiring "Administrator access" to deal with) and it will for no apparent reason at all deny a device exists even though its been in use for months.

    I'm fortunately past retirement age so this masochistic BS is purely optional, I don't need to put up with it. But I can see the negative effect it has on development and it worries me -- development groups are like fluids, they hit insurmountable obstructions and just flow around them, either putting off the work or pretending that they don't need to do it. Stuff will just not get done.

    Meanwhile my experience with Windows 10 has been less than stellar. Like all Microsoft's products through its history it needs the latest and fastest to work properly, the company preferring to mask design shortcomings by using ever more capable hardware. The result at home is that I often find myself booting up a Linux system to figure out why Windows is having a problem starting -- my systems aren't that old but typically I can get Linux up, the browser opened and a question answered in less time than it takes Windows to boot up, especially after one of its numerous 'upgrades'. Why anyone would willingly subject themselves to this is a puzzle; my guess is that they don't have a choice. 'S' mode will just heap frustration upon frustration. (...and to think that all MSFT had to do was tix a handful of bugs and architectural shortcomings.....)

    1. ecofeco Silver badge

      Re: Windows is close to unusable

      My company spent several days stripping down Win 10 enterprise and it's still needy, finicky bollocks.

      I said it before and I'll say it again, Win 10 is the new Vista. No, Millenia!

  49. J J Carter Silver badge
    Linux

    From the desk of /dev/null

    Soon we’ll have Linux Mint S, the 'S' is for shareware.

  50. conscience
    Windows

    Desperate MS fail again

    "Laughable desperation" is coming to define Microsoft these days.

    When - not if - this ill conceived effort to get users to use their app store fails, will Sacknads get desperate enough to prevent users switching away from the S mode altogether? Or introduce a monthly subscription just to be able to use non-store apps and hope the general reluctance to pay gets them what they want?

    Other than trying to copy Apple and Google there appears to be little point to this move. Their app store isn't even fit for purpose, and it doesn't have the majority of software that people want or need. The biggest software vendors with the most popular, biggest selling products will _never_ put their products in the MS store as there is simply no way they'd give up such a big chunk of their income to Microsoft when they don't have to.

    Microsofties are stuck in the past and still believe that they have the clout to force their whims on the industry, but these days they are so far removed from reality in their echo chamber full of staff and fanboy insiders that they genuinely don't seem to understand users, the industry or their place in it. Removing choice and making things less easy to use will never win you any friends and eventually users will make alternative arrangements be that Mac, Linux or something else. The powers at MS don't even seem to have noticed that this exodus is already happening, and things will only get worse when Windows 7 support ends.

    1. Timmy B Silver badge

      Re: Desperate MS fail again

      "The biggest software vendors with the most popular, biggest selling products will _never_ put their products in the MS store"

      Like Adobe you mean?

  51. Tom Paine Silver badge

    Finally

    They're finally going to get what they've wanted for 20 years - to be able to adopt Apple's evil practices as their own. Walled garden, corrupt deals with ISVs, and even less freedom for their victims, sorry, users.

    They should have been broken up in 2000. Although personally I prefer the word "smashed"... Just think how much fail we would have been spared! Vista... Powerhell... an unsandboxed JavaScript engine running in kernelspace to help find malware... systemd...

  52. Crusty

    Had a new surface through the shop

    That has this Windows 10S on it. It won't run any binary no matter what you throw at it.

    Fortunately the links for "Upgrading" it to Windows 10 Pro aren't hidden that well.

    It seems to update pretty fast, like it *might* be a registry setting rather than a whole kernel.

  53. gnarlymarley Bronze badge

    Is this an attempt to make it look as fast as the tesla model "S"?

  54. IgnatiusA

    The sky is falling.

    If you (or microsoft) thing this is going to make the tiniest difference they're kidding themselves. Maybe some kiosks might use it.

    All you have to do is consider how many iphones would be jailbroken if the only impediment to doing so was finding a tickbox buries 3 or 4 dialog boxes deep.

    Grandmas and grandads, and those who use laptops (and even desktops) for basic productivity apps and wouldn't know what a linux was if it jumped up and bit them will benefit - they'll be in a nice comfortable walled garden where the only apps presented to them have been pre-scanned for vulnerabilities, and where the nice people at Microsoft will keep them far away from dodgy apps and anything that smells slightly of piracy (even if it can be used for other purposes). All their apps will either be metro interface or web hosted. and everyone's life will be happier, because the likes of you and I won't be having to drop everything every two weeks to go over to and marge's and delouse the computer because of the latest email she received that 'looked like it came from her bank'

    Anyone with any interest in Windows PCs as technology for creative purposes, whether that be coding, cad, photoshop or anything else not available (or severely hamstrung) on the store will tick the little box and be able to use full windows in all it's former glory, and with all the usual caveats. Sure, you'll also be able to run linux if you so wish, or run it in a hyper-v vm or whatever floats your goat.

    As for the conspiracy theory that Microsoft will eventually lock the gate of their walled garden, I can't see it as basically that means anyone with any acumen at all will be a die hard linux guru - and those are the guys that will eventually be deciding data centre policy in large corporations and development target systems in software houses. Locking those guys out (or in) really is shooting yourself in the foot.

  55. Cynicalmark

    Dumb down the masses

    Although brilliant for average non technical clueless sheeple, this is a serious attempt to dumb down the population again. The 90’s was a time of education changes so subtle yet effective in producing the increasingly moronic parents of today with no common sense or practical ability.

    Conspiracy theory? Maybe.

    Before dismissal, maybe look at history-the S mode is subtle in its way of locking the majority of non technical into an easily controllable environment. Think about it -China did and successfully brainwashed the masses to blindly and yet passionately follow the state &it only took a decade.

    See you in ten years and see how it works out for the average citizen. Maybe then you will panic, but too late.

    Information is power. Controls on delivery of content is mass power.

  56. dcssteve

    Micorosoft does not have a clue

    (1) If Microsoft was not in a near monopoly position they would be out of business. Windows is overly complex and structurally flawed. It has never abandoned its application model called cooperative multitasking which in itself is a joke. The Registry is a mess.

    (2) Here is a company that had billions of dollars and market position when the Google founders we just college kids. They lost out to Google on nearly every front. Microsoft tried to stuff Windows into a phone with no success while Google introduced the Android phone. They have even lost the Windows browser battle to Chrome.

    (3) Microsoft is not innovative and their direction is a mystery. All you have to do is compare Chrome to Edge to see how innovative Microsoft is. Edge is the worst browser I have ever come across. I use Internet IE before I use Edge.

    (4) Sooner or later Microsoft Updates will take your machine out. One of Microsoft's Windows 10 updates left my computer unable to boot (not the first time either). I finally got the machine restored and disabled the Update Service. I be damned, they turned back on and updated my machine again destroying it once more. After much Internet research, I finally found a way to disable updates but it is not easy; they shove them down your throat and don't give a damn if it kills your machine. Windows is so convoluted there is no way to guarantee that all machines are in a state of being able to accept an update.

    So now after touting Windows 10, they want to make it App based like a phone or tablet - what next. I think they have forgotten that Windows 10 is basically supposed to be a commercial system and not just an Instrument for Facebook.

    I have been using and developing software for Windows since the DOS days. Before that I used real operating systems. I have no respect of Windows or Microsoft. I use Windows when I have too and a MacBook Pro all the rest of the time. Apple is not perfect by far but Mac OS is not the hairball Windows is.

POST COMMENT House rules

Not a member of The Register? Create a new account here.

  • Enter your comment

  • Add an icon

Anonymous cowards cannot choose their icon

Biting the hand that feeds IT © 1998–2019