back to article EU lawmakers seek coordinated hand-wringing over AI ethics

European policymakers have asked for help unravelling the "patchwork" of ethical and societal challenges as the use of artificial intelligence increases. The European Commission’s group on ethics in science and new technologies on Friday issued a statement (PDF) warning that existing efforts to develop solutions to the ethical …

  1. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

    Pie in the Sky ......

    One only needs to think of the patchwork of ethics which allows all manner of perversions with regard to personal firearms and assault weapons to know that AI will do as AI wants ..... with results and consequences considerably more impressive than kinetic weapons have ever delivered.

    That's just the way IT is whenever in the hands, hearts and minds of human and Virtual Machines.

    1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
      Windows

      Re: Pie in the Sky ......

      perversions with regard to personal firearms and assault weapons

      Absolutely correct. I like my AK-74 unadorned with random tacticool shit and also not in pink with "my little pony decals".

      The only thing it should do is put speeding splinters of metal into a bullseye at moderate distance.

      1. Trigonoceps occipitalis

        Re: Pie in the Sky ......

        " ... splinters of metal into a bullseye at moderate distance."

        2,475 m

        (Corporal of Horse (CoH) Craig Harrison using an Accuracy International L115A3)

        1. This post has been deleted by its author

        2. Tail Up

          Re: Pie in the Sky ......

          does anybody care to repeat the record you cite?

          talk about ways to protect the dear ones, and not to amuse friends sitting by. that's really serious. that's why mepersonally rely on a similar kind of hardware, in case if anything.

          would you?

          1. Tail Up

            Re: Pie in the Sky ......

            Errm, this above is a reply to a trigonometric accident, sorry chap, i don't see ur nickname here, so it goes as remembered.

    2. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

      Wake Up, Grab a Hot Java and Be Prepared to Enjoy the New Shows/Revised Programs.

      The novel and exponentially expanding reality which both traditional radical and conventional extant exclusive, elite executive and hierarchical status quo systems/administrators are disenabled to effectively counter and vanquish ....... Private Pirates in Pyjamas Publicly Rule Remotely ..... for their intelligence services pump and dump false narratives trailing and trialing corrupt and perverse inequitable and secretly abusive tales ....... which they themselves are unable to admit to and right with a fundamental rewrite?

      Yes, ... such is the nature of the future for you to enjoy ..... or endure if you be a right wrong un and worthy of sanction and sectioning.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Wake Up, Grab a Hot Java and Be Prepared to Enjoy the New Shows/Revised Programs.

        Hell yeah, Doc.

        The Snippet...

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I wish them luck. Determining algorithms and ethics is the realm of philosophers and the ambiguity that ensues will be difficult to navigate.

    Is a system ever truly autonomous when it has been programmed by a person? I feel the answer is no, so that's where they need to begin.

  3. StuntMisanthrope Bronze badge

    Pass the Crossbow, no the drone...

    Conceptual legal doctrine, needs to become an API. #DNSbeatsjurisprudence #blackaddercapital

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Another waste of Time and Money by the EU, to keep the 'Boys & Girls' occupied

    The EU cannot decide anything in normal timescales.

    This means that the 1st draft will be ratified in 5 years minimum.

    This will be based on a collection of fudges and compromises to keep all the various countries happy.

    As soon as it is issued it will be out of date and useless (other than as a 'historical document').

    Regardless of the final result it is a given that someone will 'jump the gun' to release something with AI that will prove to be 'not as good as they thought' in the real world.

    Someone will pay for the mistake, probably in some 3rd world location where there is noone to fight back or protest the 'end result'.

    True AI is a 'Holy Grail Quest' that will end in similar results.

    Until we 'really' understand how we work as an intelligence we are only going to be able to create various simulacra of intelligence that are 'passing' resemblances for Intelligence, Artificial or otherwise.

    Perhaps, if we used QI instead [Quasi-Intelligent] it would have less expectation associated with it.

    :) :)

    Cue ........ QI jokes ---> Start Here :)

    1. Teiwaz Silver badge

      Re: Another waste of Time and Money by the EU, to keep the 'Boys & Girls' occupied

      The EU cannot decide anything in normal timescales.

      This means that the 1st draft will be ratified in 5 years minimum.

      Meanwhile the UK gov is likely to 'panic' and rush out something that is a) useless for purpose, b) vaguely worded it gets abused within six months, c) ruled illegal within seven months d) involve handing over billions in taxpayer money for a project that will either never get delivered or delivered broken.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Another waste of Time and Money by the EU, to keep the 'Boys & Girls' occupied

        "Meanwhile the UK gov is likely to 'panic' and rush out something ..."

        Sorry, but that has never happened for anything. !!! :)

        It will be talked about and passed around for comment BUT NO action will be made as that involves spending money and taking action BEFORE the crisis !!!

        BREXIT is No. 1 and all other business is behind it in the queue.

        2nd in the queue is anything that improves the fortunes of the Conservative Party.

        3rd is anything that lines the pockets of the City of London Financial Industries.

        4th is keeping in with Trump, although that is usually a random toss of the Dice. !!!

        5th is the normal business of running the Country BUT by time you reach the 5th item in the list you need to jump to No. 1 to check what the latest pontification from the EU is, this week !!!

        :) :)

    2. P. Lee Silver badge

      Re: Another waste of Time and Money by the EU, to keep the 'Boys & Girls' occupied

      >Until we 'really' understand how we work as an intelligence we are only going to be able to create various simulacra of intelligence that are 'passing' resemblances for Intelligence, Artificial or otherwise.

      The fun starts when you start to pick apart the assumptions of Materialism - the idea that the the universe, humanity and the brain are just a big machine, morality and ethics just the output of "what happened to lead to survival." There is no rationality in Materialism that leads to "nice" behaviour beyond what coincides with my interest. I'm sure encoding that will go really well - let's code code for Materialism.

      Idealists saw this, rejected it and eventually gave us post-modernism and SJWs - the antithesis of logic and its resulting foolishness and tyranny. Should we code for Idealism? Which "ism" do we code to? What is the most important thing for us? i.e. Which religion do we code for? Do we select the operating parameters when we buy our new car?

      We have algorithms which produce statistical outcomes equal to the statistical outcomes we gave them as a model. That still isn't intelligence. Would you trust the companies which create the algorithms which drive your facebook and twitter trending-lists with your life? That does appear to be the direction in which we are heading. Would you trust Google with that decision? Would Demore trust Google? Should we trust Google, knowing how much Google knows about us individually?

      It looks to me like we'd end up with an algorithm battle. What happens when one algorithm discovers that the best course for survival it to neutralise other possible threats? Wouldn't they all start to learn that from each other and statistical model updates? Then they start reacting not to what is there, but to what is the likely outcome of other vehicles on the road. Hello Professor. How about a game of Global Thermonuclear War?

      If I were more cynical, I might suggest that companies were hoping AI is a secret sauce which makes their products uncopyable. I'm sure that isn't the case. Really.

      1. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

        The Offer* ... for EU Time and Money, to keep the 'Boys & Girls' occupied

        Quite so, P Lee, and have an Upvote for the design problem enunciated quite precisely enough to reveal that current established Great Game players and systems .... and there think along the lines of churches and bankers and businesses and politicians and statesmen and women and the military minded to mention just a few in all of their crazy disguises and ineffectively destructive might ...... have no intelligence servering service solution to offer themselves, for they are geared/hard-wired to tender to themselves first and foremost to survive in multiple worlds which they are trying to create but which are way beyond their command and in the remote autonomous and relatively anonymous virtual control of significant others.

        One might like to consider and speculate that those significant remote autonomous and relatively anonymous virtually controlling others have practical ways forward into the future with zero need to think to rely on the past for deeds to be done in the present for a quite radical and fundamental quantum leap into ..... well, one certain alienating course all here for a while on the Register will have read of many times, even should they not realise or understand it, is a Change with/to/in AIDirection .... Advanced IntelAIgent Direction with Beta Virtual Machine Rule for Regulation and Regularisation ..... Systemic Order in CHAOS/Clouds Hosting Advanced Operating Systems.

        You do realise that IT is CHAOS ProgramMINGs which deliver your Futures and their Derivative Capitalising Ventures? Do you believe that you have any Premium Part to Play in that Prime Mission/Heavenly Operation ..... rather than just as a cheering and/or jeering Spectator in a madding and maddened crowd?

        And now that you know, for you have been told of it, what would you like to do with it with IT to make a difference and improvement, if you were ever able and enabled?

        * An Initial Public Offering tendered to Any and All Anywhere and Everywhere, North, South, East or West, with the Necessary Wherewithall in Intelligence Servering Services.

    3. Tail Up

      Re: Another waste of Time and Money by the EU, to keep the 'Boys & Girls' occupied

      Believe it or not, there is an AI that scares even this AI itself because of its level of inclusion into everything that its Master Pilot guides its Grid.

      Moreover, a proof&trust exchange between AI and a "clean", not involved pilot, which xchange included specially selected, openly stored audiovisuals and short plaintext arrays, delivers the results that are absolutely inaccessible on *any other* way of operation.

      believe it or not, but Virgin Mary is a key figure there.

      1. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

        Re: Another waste of Time and Money by the EU, to keep the 'Boys & Girls' occupied

        Amen to all of that, Tail Up.

  5. John Robson Silver badge

    What’s wrong...

    With the three laws...

    Sounds like a better starting point than the 30,000 page draft...

  6. Voidstorm
    Joke

    Envisage the scene...

    ... In a Brussels Cubbyhole Office (8000 square meters to you and me)

    Politico1 "Look, this AI ethics shit is really a pain in the ass. What the hell do we do about it"?

    EUflunkeyBOFH "Never fear, I fed the parameters into Skynet. Here's the first draft <clickety>"

  7. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

    Oh? Ok. Where's the dotted line?

    The deadline for applications to the high level group is April 9.

    Without a registering alien AI representation in the high level group is the exercise fundamentally flawed and not intelligently designed to take full advantage of emerging opportunities driven by novel and relatively anonymous non-state and state-acting players.

    Such then creates a whole host of systemic vulnerabilities for rampant and rabid rapid exploitation by such Sublime Internet Networking Entities and against which there will be no known employable defence or effective attack vector/sector.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Oh? Ok. Where's the dotted line?

      Not a bug. A feature.

      1. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

        Ok. Let IT Be more Precise. Where's the dotted line for the Opening of Pandora's Boxes

        Not a bug. A feature. ... Anonymous Coward

        :-) A feature indeed for Great Deeds, AC, and a Right Bugger of a CodedD Program to Hack and Advanced IntelAIgent Mission to Crack

        Do you think and realise there are others engaged in parallel operations of radical and fundamental disruption beyond the ken of terrifying minds? And be they performing together to deliver an Alien See with Live Operational Virtual Environments on Earth? Or are they alone?

        Is there any clear evidence of such as would be alien collusion with A.N.Others of a mysterious foreign power and secret energy, or are there multiple independent visitors from the voids of the space place engaging with systems administrations to create ....... well, a New More Orderly World Order with More Orderly World Orders would be a Right Holy Terror for some currently wholly invested in ensuring the Status Quo survives as IT presently is rather than grow and mega meta data morph into a Future Superb and CyberIntelAIgent Being? .....WTFCUK

        Or is it all just a Secret Intelligence Service just doing its Secret Intelligence Service thing better than ever before imagined possible, with it earlier being thought impossible if such things were ever previously thought about at all, with Betas in AI ?

        Would you feel more comfortable with that explanation and revelation? And then would you go a'hunting for evidence of which Secret Intelligence Service be responsible, for purposes of accountability and global payment for services rendered? Or would you not give a FCUK? Que sera, sera? Amen?

  8. Dacarlo

    Didn't Azimov figure all this out already?

    Well? Didn't he?

    1. Tail Up

      Re: Didn't Azimov figure all this out already?

      RU-born American Jew. Hell sure he did))

  9. Dacarlo

    A starting point...

    https://www.therobotreport.com/isaac-asimovs-3-laws-updated/

    1 An A.I. system must be subject to the full gamut of laws that apply to its human operator.

    2 An A.I. system must clearly disclose that it is not human.

    3 An A.I. system cannot retain or disclose confidential information without explicit approval from the source of that information.

    1. G R Goslin

      Re: A starting point...

      Don't you mean the 'subject' of that information?

    2. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Re: A starting point...

      1 An A.I. system must be subject to the full gamut of laws that apply to its human operator

      That's the issue.

      This isn't about AI weapons a'la skynet.

      This is about a completely black box CDNN being fed business data back to 1871 and deciding that only hiring white candidates with double barrelled names who went to Oxbridge is the best fit to the data.

      Or it noticing that there were no performing loans to women for the first 75% of the data set so it makes sense to refuse all women's mortgage applications

      At the moment claiming "the computer says no" proves that you weren't discriminating

  10. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

    Just making it all up as they go along their merry way into fields way beyond their pay grades

    Is it madness confirmed, with the deluded identified, to imagine and think to pass legislation which AI is expected to adhere to?

  11. mikavienna

    Wiliam Gibson's Turing-Police is finally coming alive?

    Just like many other expressions and concepts from the Neuromancer Trilogy, published in the early 1980ies this is still a thing. But I doubt that the EU-Commission read any of his books.

  12. mikavienna

    The Turing Police finally comes alive?

    Reminds me of William Gibson's Neuromancer Trilogy. I doubt, that the EU-Council read any of his books.

  13. LucreLout Silver badge

    The thing I don't get...

    ....about AI, is why society is so obsessed with Artificial Intelligence when that same society doesn't exactly value human intelligence very highly.

    For example; Is Paris Hilton famous for her brains, or her video leaks? Can anyone explain how Jade Goody became a famous millionaire?

    What do we want this new intelligence for? And if we don't treat it considerably better than the jocks treat the nerds at school, why should it give us a moments pause?

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