back to article Ex-Google recruiter: I was fired for opposing hiring caps on white, Asian male nerds

A former recruiter for Google and YouTube has sued the search ad beast, claiming he was fired for objecting to hiring policies that discriminated against white and Asian men. In a civil lawsuit filed in January in San Mateo Superior Court, plaintiff Arne Wilberg contended that he was an exemplary employee who received positive …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Political correctness BS

    It's time for completely anonymised application processes to become standard across the board, to end this "positive" discrimination madness.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Political correctness BS

      "Yeah, too right!" said the electron.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Political correctness BS

      There is no positive in discrimination...

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Political correctness BS

      Its not madness tho' is it, centuries of racism, sexism and bias mean that any number of industries have huge gaps in both pay and recruitment levels for significant sections of the community. These levels are not rectifying themselves so you have to do it artificially somehow. I suspect these are sought after positions for the most part so given the choice between several otherwise similar applicants arbitrary choices are often made anyway so why not make those that will lessen the barrier for those that follow.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Political correctness BS

        Its not madness tho' is it, centuries of racism, sexism and bias mean that any number of industries have huge gaps in both pay and recruitment levels for significant sections of the community.

        Nonsense.

        Discrimination as an explanation for the gender pay gap has been debunked repeatedly and if societal racism is such a big problem, how come Asians thrive in the West to the extent that caps need to be placed when it comes to hiring them?

        We should strive for equality in opportunity, not equality in outcome and all the evidence suggests that we've pretty much reached that point already.

        1. Stu Mac

          Re: Political correctness BS

          You can't go bandying around such hardcore common sense here FFS!!

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Political correctness BS

        Dumb question... but why is everyone here Anonymous? :)

        1. Ole Juul Silver badge

          Re: Political correctness BS

          "Dumb question... but why is everyone here Anonymous? :)"

          Maybe there's an Anonymous Elephant in the room.

          1. Clunking Fist Bronze badge

            Re: Political correctness BS

            I thought it was an obvious Elephant?

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Political correctness BS

            I would say it's an anonymous white elephant.

        2. Robert Brockway

          Re: Political correctness BS

          [In response to a comment that almost everyone is posting anonymously]

          Not me. I've been openly speaking out about political correctness gone mad, and related topics, for years. Every time someone stands up it's easier for the next person.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Political correctness BS

            Such, courage you have, being in the minority and standing up. So woke.

        3. Snow Wombat
          Black Helicopters

          Re: Political correctness BS

          Because expressing certain opinions with a name attached, can get you a visit from the HR department, at best, and at worst, kicked out of your job and black listed, never to be able to work again.

          Or you're a contractor like me, who has skills that over ride any sort of HR bias, to a degree.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Political correctness BS

        have huge gaps in both pay and recruitment levels for significant sections of the community.

        We're rectifying that. We have adopted all-troll shortlists for positions recruited during this year.

      4. Evak2979

        Re: Political correctness BS

        So your solution to age old discrimination is new age discrimination until you and those like you feel the wrong has been righted, which apparently has not happened already. I am sure that we can trust in the integrity of every ethnic group bar whites (and Asians apparently) to let us know when the balance is right according to them.

        All based on imaginary numbers and fitting evaluations of things such as the pay gap, the invisible patriarchy, the all ruling white privilege and so on.

        Yeah let's do that.

        On second thought. Maybe not.

        1. Wensleydale Cheese Silver badge

          HR to blame?

          "All based on imaginary numbers"

          HR's fault for trying to pigeonhole everyone into this or that category?

      5. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Political correctness BS

        No.

        More racism and discrimination is not the answer, even if idots like you really want it to be.

        1. Stu Mac

          Re: Political correctness BS

          We really WANT lots of hot girlie coders. Short skirts and endless cups of coffee.

          Heaven.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Political correctness BS

          I upvoted your sentiment; but, you could have left out the word idiots. If does nothing to support your position and calls into question your motive and intent.

      6. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Political correctness BS

        centuries of racism, sexism and bias mean that ...

        You are seeing the world with the spectacles of the New Marxist Left.

        1. ChrisBedford

          Re: Political correctness BS

          "centuries of racism, sexism and bias mean that ..."

          You are seeing the world with the spectacles of the New Marxist Left.

          Naah, you are seeing the world with the spectacles of the new Trumpist Right.

          1. Stu Mac

            Re: Political correctness BS

            No he was right.

            We have every right to keep our countries just as they have been.

            It's a common outlook around the globe.

        2. Stu Mac

          Re: Political correctness BS

          Otherwise known as a Fsusckin Idiot. Yes.

          Want diversity? Try a different country. Or continent. It'll be different for sure.

        3. FrozenShamrock

          Re: Political correctness BS

          I disagree with the "solution" of new discrimination; but, centuries of racism, sexism and bias is real.

        4. gnarlymarley
          FAIL

          Re: Political correctness BS

          I am a male with two bachelor degrees who was congratulated for getting a job that HR officially offered me six days later. As it turns out a Mexican who is a high school dropout can question the system and cause delays when they do not think it is fair to them.

          Just think in my situation, someone with a very high education can be compared to a minority with almost no education for the same job.

          This system is rigged to support certain groups based on race instead of prefering someone with appropriate knowledge and experience.

          Now we wonder why they cannot find the proper folks here is because those with the experience and knowledge are no longer allowed to get the job.

      7. Wayland Bronze badge

        Re: Political correctness BS

        "Its not madness tho' is it, centuries of racism, sexism and bias".

        I like your proposal, only hire the races you want to hire. So for example if I don't want women in my company because they undermine the power structure I can simply put a hiring ban on them.

        However although you propose discrimination you also seem to be against it. Make up your mind. If you don't want white and Asian people in your organisation then just say; No Whites, No Asians. Simples.

        The only problem is is against the law and it pisses off people of whatever groups you are discriminating against.

        If you want some support to change the laws so that racism and sexism are OK again then I'll sign your petition. I know what you mean about some of those nerdy Asian men but they maybe worth tolerating if they are good at the job. Just pay them less and it won't seem so bad as you're getting a bargain.

      8. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Political correctness BS

        No seriously, why come in here and make SJW comments on a tech thread then wonder why it's a White/Asian Male dominated Field, it's for a reason.

        It's about who can do the job and has the study/background/Will...not about how diverse the staff pool is.

        If others can't make it on their own they just don't deserve the jobs period.

        This ain't welfare it's the workplace honey.

        Meritocracy now!

      9. twisty

        Re: Political correctness BS

        What you're describing as having 'to do it artificially somehow', is called discrimination based on race and/or gender.

        Not what we signed up for.

        Jobs should be gained on ability and experience, not gender or race.

        If a candidate doesn't have the experience, then they work from the bottom like everybody else in the industry, or get better qualifications to give them an edge.

        If a candidate doesn't have the ability, then they need to look for something they are good at.

    4. Archivist

      Re: Political correctness BS

      Anonymised application system are just the first step. Once you're face to face with the candidate it's impossible not to notice gender and ethnicity, and make a good guess at age and gender identity.

      I like to think that I've only chosen on merit, aided by a system of pre-agreed questions and sensible scoring system, but who knows what's going on in the back of one's mind. A tricky one is: how will this person integrate with the team.

      1. File Not Found

        Re: Political correctness BS

        It turns out that the best way to avoid unconscious bias (if your firm is big enough) is to hire in groups of ten or so - this apparently helps your subconscious take the ‘risk’ that a new hire from a less familiar background won’t fit in with the existing team.

    5. Paper

      Re: Political correctness BS

      Why not just have a panel of hiring judges from different backgrounds who vote? Then if would be harder to be accidently racist based during the interview.

    6. Paper

      Re: Political correctness BS

      Another alternative is to work out what proportion of minority candidates come to your interviews and attempt only to mimic those rates in positive discrimination, not to try mimic the rates in the general population. Otherwise basically every company is vying for a tiny population.

    7. Stu Mac

      Re: Political correctness BS

      Hard to anonymise interviews though!

    8. Faux Science Slayer

      "This is the Face of Evil" at > SGTreports(.)com

      In the spring of 2010, the fascists knew they had a problem with the web, invited Mr GoogStapo to the White House, where they conspired against Truth using crooked Al-Gore-Rithums....

      "Too much information is dangerous for our democracy" ~ Obombie, Rose Garden, May 10, 2010

      Immediately my +250,000 crosslinks dropped to 900 as Truth disappeared. Mr GoogStapo later conspired with FakeBook to rig the 2016 election using 'Man-in-the-Middle' program. All the software for source coding was declared 'national security' and stolen from Leader Technology, given to chosen CIA front men. Similar theft occurred with ALL US patents since the Civil War. More on Leader, see....

      "Timeline of Evil" at > Aim4Truth (.)org

      1. deadlockvictim Silver badge

        Re: "This is the Face of Evil" at > SGTreports(.)com

        Brilliant!

        Have you considered a career in writing?

        It's all suddenly so clear.

        BTW, you should try all caps too, it's great for emphasis, especially whole sentences.

    9. GX5000
      Stop

      Re: Political correctness BS

      They tried that in Australia remember?

      More Men STILL got hired...a little more if I remember correctly than with names.

    10. twisty

      Re: Political correctness BS

      Excellent idea!

      This would end discrimination based on race and gender in one swoop.

      It seems that the western world has moved away from discriminating against females and minority groups and replaced it with socially / politically accepted discrimination against white and East Asian males.

      This is not the way that equality in the workplace was supposed to be!

    11. Dangerous Anonymous
      Trollface

      Re: Political correctness BS

      Actually. There are more people who are starting this thing of going around - Doing to the community as the community does to them. Racism does not need to no longer exist. What it needs is to been done to of what it is doing. Discrimination shall receive the same as well. What these "Politicians" and, "Racist" people do not understand is that; people everyday build a destruction of themselves filled with Anger, Hatred, Lust, Negativity, Madness and, so many things that people are starting to react on. Sooner or later, the people will act more demonic upon these things and, the public of people will take more advantage of it. Like the school shootings for example... People bullied them, no one helped them, people disliked them also decriminalized them. For so long, people had hundreds and millions of Suicides upon these things. Now, people are fighting back. Cop killing, school shootings, killing their wifes, husbands, ex's. The world is not getting destroyed. It is getting better. Pretty soon, the people who laugh at these things and, do these things will get hurt, die, get caught in so many things. Eventually, people will end up stop doing it out of fear, or they will die. The world has been weak for so long. It's making people tougher. --- Don't believe it? Look at Americans. They pick fights with all these countries. Now, when it comes to Russia blowing up they're plain and, america takes words among it with wars and threats... Now look how it ends up... America don't want to fight. If it was a poor and small country like Korea then, they would have fought before questioning. Plus, it's not just America with anything i've spoken. It's all countries. Though, i do believe America will be one of the fewest too fall. All the Enemies, all the hate, all the crime... Well, period - It is un-organised and it's not even a civilized country. Of course it has Civilization meaning (people) but, are people really that civilized? People should think of that when they do things to others who could find where they live and, break in their house and do un-civilized things to them and their families. Yet, who knows. One cop followed a guy who wasn't harming innocent people, the guy killed the cop, more cops came, he killed more cops until he finally died... This the tragic things people who aren't even Advanced Beings call Civilized. Hell, even kidnapping Aliens who might be Innocent Aliens which might end up starting wars with the one and only beings we know as Advanced... How will this turn out? Nope your wrong... (We will surrender) as all fools who think they conquered something they never even had. Its not one, nor the two nor 30% or 60%, its more than half, and half over most people who think they understand something when it'll take a meaning like this ( Only another human can make you understand ) to understand a meaning of which is to say ( You do not understand ). Look up "Albert Ernestine" for the (Some things you don't know that you don't know). The Genius who is actually right among something you just wont understand - In meanings: If i made you understand - I can make you understand in how many ways? I can talk to you, torture some knowledge into you to show you that, you'll understand what (I'm going to give you the choice you gave me)<-- Understanding that you won't understand. But, there is more meanings to that but, hell. I don't even know. But i'd rather (Help Aliens to take over the Humans) Why? Because Humans are useless in acknowledging to obey, to respect, to honor, to have honor, to have respect. ---------------- I want to give the world every percentage of life and, everything in life that they wish to give me with a true balance. I speak Good for Good - Evil for Evil. A Doing for a Doing and, a Left Alone for a Left Alone. ---- PS: Not saying it's my desire - I'm saying it's knowledge. But, yes, i would speak of this in that form within myself also. But, ask yourself. Who wouldn't?

  2. Mark 85 Silver badge

    Reverse discrimination is now political correctness.

    The original name "reverse discrimination"...it's been a thing here in the US since mid to late 70's. White males have always been the ones hit by it until recently. Been there, done that, got discriminated against.

    As for this case, I hope to hell he's got copies of the memo's, emails, etc. Otherwise he'll get blow away in court.

    1. This post has been deleted by its author

    2. tfb Silver badge
      Mushroom

      Re: Reverse discrimination is now political correctness.

      Right, because the entire tech industry has this huge problem that there aren't enough white male people working in it. Because white male people experience such prejudice they can't get jobs even though they are so innately superior. Oh, wait, no, that's bullshit, isn't it? The whole industry is completely dominated by white male brogrammers: if you're white and male, like me, and you didn't get a job at Google, like me, it's because, you weren't good enough, like me. It is not because you were too white or too male, and if you think it is that's a pretty clear indication of why you did not get the job: you were too fucking dumb.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Reverse discrimination is now political correctness.

        Given that only 1/4 of university engineering output is female, its hardly a revelation that employment rates no different...

      2. julian abbs

        Re: Reverse discrimination is now political correctness.

        well said tfb, i only wish i could upvote you more, interesting to see those who are prepared to put their own names or handles to their opinions here isn't it...

        The idea that hiring people has ever been about merit is laughable, at best it's a box ticking exercise where the relationship between the boxes to be ticked and the requirements of the role are nebulous to say the least, and since that's the case why not add a few boxes so that at least you're not hiring people just because they look, talk and think the same as you

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Reverse discrimination is now political correctness.

          Two people who challenged Google's party line got fired. You want names of people who also challenge this line? Makes me think of this:

          https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiral_of_silence

          Anon because I am genuinely concerned we now live in a society where having a minority opinion will lead to punishment.

          1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
            Windows

            Re: Reverse discrimination is now political correctness.

            Anon because I am genuinely concerned we now live in a society where having a minority opinion will lead to punishment.

            Doubt no longer, anon (although I might disagree with the "minority" adjective). Even some NYT writers see that the Prancing Progressivist Pol Pot Pretenders are on a roll:

            Yet I have to admit that something bigger is going on. It could be that progressives understood something I didn’t. It could be that you can win more important victories through an aggressive cultural crusade than you can through legislation. Progressives could be on the verge of delegitimizing their foes, on guns but also much else, rendering them untouchable for anybody who wants to stay in polite society. That would produce social changes far vaster than limiting assault rifles.

            It's really like I'm reading a German newspaper in the early 20s.

            Two things have fundamentally changed the landscape. First, over the past two years conservatives have self-marginalized. In supporting Donald Trump they have tied themselves to a man whose racial prejudices, sexual behavior and personal morality put him beyond the pale of decent society.

            What is "decent society" though? It is the society of the duckspeaking/doublethinking self-proclaimed "liberal" ready to reformat actual society to feel Good About Veself (and possibly leech some govt money on the side; well, I also have the suspicion that it has to do with the ingrained outlook of a certain ethnicity, but I won't go there.)

            While becoming the movement of Dinesh D’Souza, Sean Hannity and Franklin Graham, they have essentially expelled the leaders and thinkers who have purchase in mainstream culture. Conservatism is now less a political or philosophic movement and more a separatist subculture that participates in its own ostracism.

            Second, progressives are getting better and more aggressive at silencing dissenting behavior. All sorts of formerly legitimate opinions have now been deemed beyond the pale on elite campuses. Speakers have been disinvited and careers destroyed. The boundaries are being redrawn across society.

            As Andrew Sullivan noted recently, “workplace codes today read like campus speech codes of a few years ago.” There are a number of formerly popular ideas that can now end your career: the belief that men and women have inherent psychological differences, the belief that marriage is between a man and a woman, opposition to affirmative action.

            However..

            The only thing I’d say to my progressive friends is, be careful how you win your victories. It is one thing to win by persuasion and another thing to win by elite cultural intimidation. Illiberalism breeds illiberalism. Using elite power, whether economic or cultural, to silence less educated foes usually produces a backlash.

            Conservatives have zero cultural power, but they have immense political power [if only]. Even today, voters trust Republicans on the gun issue more than Democrats. If you exile 40 percent of the country from respectable society they will mount a political backlash that will make Donald Trump look like Adlai Stevenson.

            "The next war will be civil".

            I hope we can clarify things before we arrive at Zimbabwe Forever or Cambodia Control.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Reverse discrimination is now political correctness.

              The bigger problem, as I see it, is that the entirety of Political structures, including the left, have moved far to the right of where they were even in the 1970s. So, that side has become an extreme in and of itself. The progressives are, possibly, closer to the center or somewhat left of the center of politics in the 1970s. It seems to me to be a balancing and that is good thing. The NRA is one of those political structures that has moved very far to the right, over the edge of reason even and all for nothing other than increased profits for the arms and armaments industry. Discrimination policies are important. From the settlement of the Americas by Europeans to present, people of color have faced huge amounts of discrimination in the workplace and it will take another generation or two equalize that, if educational opportunities are equal amongst all economic groups and we know that they are not. So, it'll take longer.

              Too far to the right or the left and you end up with an authoritarian regime. Trump and his ilk, I use the word ilk there purposefully, are pushing the country into authoritarianism.

              Until there is no private money and no Corporate lobbying allowed in politics shit like the NRA pull and a lack of educational opportunities will continue.

          2. bombastic bob Silver badge
            Unhappy

            Re: Reverse discrimination is now political correctness.

            "I am genuinely concerned we now live in a society where having a minority opinion will lead to punishment."

            thing is, HATING reverse discrimination and political correctness is NOT a 'minority opinion', in spite of what the lefties and howler monkeys want everyone to think.

            But yeah, having an opinion shouldn't get you fired, "not hired", nor in ANY way discriminated against. And hiring people based on things that are not directly related to the job makes BAD ECONOMIC SENSE.

            Only a mega-corp like Google [with apparent cash to burn] could even AFFORD to hire mediocre people based entirely on race/sex/whatever. Everyone else has to hire competent employees that earn the company more money than the wages+benefits cost.

            1. Teiwaz Silver badge

              Re: Reverse discrimination is now political correctness.

              I agree with you, but...

              in spite of what the lefties and howler monkeys want everyone to think.

              I think I'm fairly socialist (and, I suppose, hence a 'leftie' - also left-handed) - but I think any discrimination or selection to match a quota rather than hiring on merit is a bad idea....

              So instead you got a d/v for relying on your stereotype prejudices.

            2. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Reverse discrimination is now political correctness.

              "thing is, HATING reverse discrimination and political correctness is NOT a 'minority opinion', in spite of what the lefties and howler monkeys want everyone to think."

              It does seem to be. Certainly nobody is defending those who challenge discrimination.

            3. Frank Fisher

              Re: Reverse discrimination is now political correctness.

              Voicing the opinion is what gets you fired. Speaking out.

              When dissidents in the USSR were ostracised or prosecuted or medicated for not sharing approved opinions, we thought that was a bad thing. Not any more it seems.

            4. Dangerous Anonymous

              Re: Reverse discrimination is now political correctness.

              This is truthful as i speak of it. But, the ones who gave you thumbs down don't understand. I could make them understand. ---- My soul drowns in hated, anger, sorrow and i love it. I love life but, i do however hate those who wish to show or hide themselves those that are ignorance. If i have broken into their homes, and did something to their families as... Well, lets say if i did that: They would then understand how corrupted people transformed their corruptness into something they begun to love. If you watch the movie (Never Back Down 2) the guy who gets bullied thanks the guys for turning him into the person he became --- My case of saying is exactly but, i know people would ignore people who are like that but, they wait til the last moment for apologies. Yet, they'd also wouldn't know how that last moment if full of love in the corrupted who want a piece of their life. In my case: I would aim for the heart *The whole house hold*. Though, i don't think they'll catch my meaning still. This my whole illustration about what they do not know nor understand. Also the meaning of something the one who does it to them, that that'll do it do the person for the person to have "Understanding". If you read this message as second and still didn't get it i mean a meaning in "Understanding" which leaders to "Vengeance" which not meaning to make you understand the world "Vengeance" but "Will", "Freedom", "To take", "To want", "To love".... No peace in you. If you still do not Understand then good. ^*>*^-|w|

          3. post-truth

            Re: Reverse discrimination is now political correctness.

            "Anon because I am genuinely concerned we now live in a society where having a minority opinion will lead to punishment."

            Concur. Not only statutes but even common law is heading in the same direction: in the UK, harassment, ASBOs [anti-social behaviour orders] and now the demise of the dual Ghosh tests for dishonesty are perfect examples. Now, if we honestly disagree with someone in the majority or in Authority (whether because we're seen as a kook, or anti-social, or have Aspergers/ADD/whatever, or someone simply takes a dislike to us and can't think of anything specific), we can acquire a criminal record just for being viewed as, quite literally, potentially anti-social for any or no reason at all - without there ever having been a subject-matter-specific offense committed.

            (I am not commenting on reverse discrimination or any laws engaging a self-contained actus reus).

        2. Bill Michaelson

          Re: Reverse discrimination is now political correctness.

          Michael Young would find the down voting, at this date, interesting.

      3. Evak2979

        Re: Reverse discrimination is now political correctness.

        What a powerful statement. Replace white with any other color and you'll still get it right.

        Reverse discrimination much?

      4. Wayland Bronze badge

        Re: Reverse discrimination is now political correctness.

        tfb " it's because, you weren't good enough, like me"

        Well that might be the reason but we now know that there are other reasons such as you are fucking cis white male and they're not hiring those. If you cross dressed you might improve your chances.

      5. Wensleydale Cheese Silver badge

        Re: Reverse discrimination is now political correctness.

        "if you're white and male, like me, and you didn't get a job at Google, like me, it's because, you weren't good enough, like me. "

        Has it occurred to you that some of us don't particularly want a job at Google? Or any of the other Bay area behemoths for that matter.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I've seen many claims that reverse discrimination is illegal, yet it's so prevalent that it feels hard to believe... With a bit of luck, this lawsuit will shed some light on the matter.

    1. Adam 52 Silver badge

      It is unequivocally illegal in England, as I understand it things are more vague in the US.

      http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/part/2/chapter/2

      1. really_adf

        [Reverse discrimination] is unequivocally illegal in England, as I understand it things are more vague in the US.

        http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/part/2/chapter/2

        I am no expert but I don't see that making the common (IME, in England) employer practice of guaranteeing interviews to disabled people meeting minimum role criteria "unequivocally illegal". This is very clearly reverse/positive discrimination.

      2. Dodgy Geezer Silver badge

        Illegal or not, the BBC overtly advertise posts with 'Whites need not apply' notices. They claim that diversity rules allow them to do this,,,,

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Europe is so lost....

        I guess the BBC didn't get that Memo huh....

    2. Wayland Bronze badge

      reverse discrimination is illegal

      No, discrimination is illegal.

      It's discrimination if you hold someone back or if you do the reverse and promote them based on sex, race, religion etc.

    3. Swarthy Silver badge

      The Joys of the American Legal System

      Discrimination ("reverse" or otherwise) is illegal, especially if you are using a quota system. However, it is a requirement to have quotas of minorities to prove that you are non-discriminatory.

      The US Justice Dept should change their motto to Condemnabitur si feceris, si non condemnabitur

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    My wife works HR for a subsidiary of a well known global engineering/automotive form, under a VP who is always pushing to "get more women" into the engineering positions that open up and always has to short list any female candidate, n matter how unqualified. The problem mainly being that there just aren't that many women in the talent pool for those roles, and those that are frequently don;t want to do the travelling required by the position. To the VP, though, "diverse" means hiring more women, and that;s what she's going to focus on.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Whatever happened to the idea of hiring the best person for the job no matter whether they are white, black, brown, or little green men from mars.

    Is it any wonder that companies or at the start of the downward slide because the non discrimination targets will never get the best workforce, only a mediocre one.

    1. GrumpyOldBloke

      Start of the downward slide. Google and YouTube are poster identities for that sentiment.

      1. bombastic bob Silver badge
        Devil

        "Start of the downward slide. Google and YouTube are poster identities for that sentiment."

        You're forgetting MICRO-SHAFT - I bet they've got the proudest "diversity" claims of them all (and the crappy products to show for it)

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          I worked at Microsoft and thought the people were very good at what they did. Most of the technical staff were white males and MS certainly tried to hire more women and minorities; but, the available talent pool is only so big. The women working tech positions at MS were just as good as their male counter parts. However, I did notice the first level managers tended to be heavily skewed to females. Maybe as a way to get better diversity numbers?

    2. tom dial Silver badge

      "Whatever happened ..."

      The managers of HR and PR - cost centers both, by their nature - gained hiring control authority over managers of the likes of product development, which are at least intended to be profit centers.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Boffin

      Whatever happened to the idea of hiring the best person for the job no matter whether they are white, black, brown, or little green men from mars.

      The last two jobs I've been hired for have been "blind", on the strength of my work but without meeting in person. Indeed, that's the only way I've been recruited to anywhere this century. Far-and-away the best paid was when I was recruited by a boss of an entirely different race to my own (as confirmed later when we met face to face), in a different continent to my own.

      I have no doubt that this "blind" recruitment is helpful in overcoming disadvantage.

      After starting the job, I had to fill the diversity monitoring paperwork. I'll cut&paste my blog piece rather than link to it and reveal my identity too clearly.

      -------

      My recent recruitment to $bigco was, as close as possible in the real world to a perfect case of no-possible-race-discrimination. That is to say, none of the folks who made the decision ever met me in person, and I never mentioned my skin colour to them. They know they’re employing [an expert in $foo]: we discussed that at length. But they don’t know my ethnicity.

      Of course they can google, they can make a guess. So can I, and my manager’s name strongly suggests that he’s from a very different racial group to my own. So neither of us can be accused of favouring our own kind (unless one of us has made a wrong guess about the other).

      Now part of the documentation they expect[1] from me is a racial monitoring form, so they can “prove” they … erm … don’t discriminate. It lets me choose from:

      White

      Black-Caribbean

      Black-African

      Black-Other

      Indian

      Pakistani

      Chinese

      Bangladeshi

      Other (please specify)

      Right. One category for white – the vast majority, encompassing warring catholic/protestant communities, and presumably other groups having significant tensions like jew and arab. Not to mention what the ‘merkins call “hispanic”. By contrast, no less than three different categories for black based on their history rather than their ethnicity, and three for south-asian based on country of origin. Seems to me offensive both to the white majority and to the minorities – both white and non-white.

      I want the option to describe my race as “human”. But that’s not Politically Correct. Bah, Humbug.

      [1] Or rather, that the Political Correctness Police expect of them.

      1. bombastic bob Silver badge
        Devil

        "I want the option to describe my race as “human”."

        I do that. mark 'other'. write in 'human' where it asks you. or leave it blank.

        1. Ben Tasker Silver badge

          > I do that. mark 'other'. write in 'human' where it asks you. or leave it blank.

          I've always tended to tick "Prefer not to say" for every question where it's an option.

          I know these questionnaires are well intended and supposed to help the company, but something's gone horribly, horribly wrong where companies are asking employees about their race and sexuality to ensure they're diverse enough.

          Well, that, and I hate filling out surveys and the like. I've never understood colleagues who look forward to their appraisals either. Don't think I've ever had a negative one, but I still hate all the paperwork and odd questions (name something you enjoyed in the last year) that goes with them.

          Meh, maybe I'm just getting old and grumpy, but I just want to turn up and do my job

          1. Jos V

            Re: ticking the boxes...

            yeah, I get company surveys too, which say it will be totally anonymous. Then again I'm the only employee in the country here on my cost center...

            I guess it would be fun to read the outcome of country X evaluation though.

            As for race... After half my life as an expat.. I'm not so sure anymore :-)

        2. FrankAlphaXII Silver badge

          I always write High Elf unless I'm feeling really nitpicky and I'll give the full human taxonomic description from Kingdom on down to species. HR departments fucking LOVE me about as much as I love a root canal with no anastethic.

          1. James 47

            > much as I love a root canal with no anastethic.

            If your tooth is dead there's no need for anaesthetic

      2. DropBear Silver badge

        "I'll cut&paste my blog piece rather than link to it and reveal my identity too clearly."

        To respect your wishes I'll address you as "Dear Anonymous Coward". Unfortunately, I have to follow with "...I hope you are aware that Googling just a few words of that identical piece of text leads straight to your blog and 'about me' page, with your full name on it". 'A' for the effort, 'F' for the execution...

        1. Nick Kew Silver badge

          @DropBear

          To respect your wishes I'll address you as "Dear Anonymous Coward".

          Thank you, but there was absolutely no need for that. The reason for anonymity was that, in my judgement, it seemed entirely appropriate to what I was writing that you should read it "blind". If you read it before googling for the origin then my anonymity served it's purpose. If not ... well, there's no compulsion to play along.

          And yes, I was aware as I wrote that a reader could probably identify me (only probably, because I couldn't be arsed to verify it for myself). After all, I even mentioned the possibility of googling me in the text!

      3. Kabukiwookie Bronze badge

        I want the option to describe my race as “human”

        This. I don't care if someone is whit, black, yellow or green. If you're competent you should be hired. External features do not dictate competency.

        Having said that, where we should focus on is ensuring there's equal opportunity.

        Having been actively been discriminated against has put certain communities with certain external features economically behind other communities.

        This should be rectified with free (tertiary) education and healthare for all, which gives people opportunities.

        Natural human behaviour should fix the rest.

      4. gnasher729 Silver badge

        I _once_ was asked to identify myself that way. I picked "Other (Rhinelander)" And if everyone _ever_ dares questioning this, I will come down on them like a ton of bricks.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      That has only ever happened rarely. People tend to more comfortable with people of their own social, economic, racial and or gender group at work. So, in a majority white male dominated society employers, mostly white males, have tended to hire white males. This may not have even been a conscious decision, in some or many cases, but I can guarantee you that white males have been hired because they white males and not because they were more qualified or even equally qualified to a woman or person of colour many times. So, how do we change this inequality without making hard changes to hiring practices?

    5. gnasher729 Silver badge

      "Whatever happened to the idea of hiring the best person for the job no matter whether they are white, black, brown, or little green men from mars."

      You don't want the best person actually, but the one that offers the biggest improvement to the whole team. You should identify the biggest weaknesses in your team, and someone who improves these weaknesses is more valuable than someone who is really strong in areas where your team is already strong.

      So I think that with everything else being equal, making your team more diverse will be an overall improvement. With everything else not being equal, you should hire whoever improves your team most, and other qualities may very well be more important than diversity. Not interviewing certain people means you lose out on a chance to get the best team.

    6. Wayland Bronze badge

      "Whatever happened to the idea of hiring the best person for the job no matter whether they are white, black, brown, or little green men from mars."

      What if you hate blacks? You should put that in the advert; "To meet our ethnic purtity target we are only hiring white men"

      1. DropBear Silver badge

        Exactly. I don't care what you think you need to "improve your team", if it leads to excluding people based on something that they inextricably are instead of something they learn you deserve to be in deep legal doo-doo.

    7. MGJ

      Because they don't; or are you somehow claiming that only dumpy white or Asian males are capable of engineering? A workforce that reflects society better is also likely to be better for the company. An engineering example; palm print recognition used to be excellent at differentiating between white male subjects but rubbish when it came to black palms, and black women in particular. I wonder why that might have been?

  6. Daggerchild Silver badge

    Won't somebody think of the....

    I remember a lady programmer telling me about how she had to fix the walks of a game's female characters, because the blokes had no idea the hips worked differently.

    Then there's the facial recognition programming team that totally forgot faces weren't always white, or gorillas.

    Is a team made entirely of $X really convictable of discriminating against $X?

    1. GrumpyOldBloke

      Re: Won't somebody think of the....

      That depends on where the pressure to discriminate against $X comes from. A team is not an isolated entity, nor is a corporation. How internal and external influences are handled may suggest fairness, biases, discrimination, stupidity or something in between. With enough pressure a team will act against its own best interests even if that limits long term survival. We see this in the lifecycle of every major corporation.

    2. find users who cut cat tail

      Re: Won't somebody think of the....

      How on Earth are these examples of discrimination -- as opposed to people doing dumb things because they are not good at their jobs?

      If a little green alien from Mars groks human anatomy and is competent, he/she/it/whatever can animate female human hips and does not even need to be human (female or otherwise). Do we need dogs to animate dogs and fish to animate fish?

      Sure, being of specific species, gender, ethnicity, social group, ... can automatically bring some domain specific knowledge others have to (and can) acquire. If your identity is your main qualification you are pretty much unqualified.

      1. Mark 85 Silver badge

        Re: Won't somebody think of the....

        How on Earth are these examples of discrimination -- as opposed to people doing dumb things because they are not good at their jobs?

        HR types and SJW's only count faces and body parts/types. It doesn't matter how qualified they are only that they meet some minimum standard and allow a checkbox to be checked off.

    3. Dr Scrum Master

      Re: Won't somebody think of the....

      I remember a lady programmer telling me about how she had to fix the walks of a game's female characters, because the blokes had no idea the hips worked differently.

      What have those blokes been looking at all these years?

      1. poohbear

        Re: Won't somebody think of the....

        Did the pregnant women walk differently to the non-pregnant ones?...

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Won't somebody think of the....

        What have those blokes been looking at all these years?

        Two words: jiggle physics.

      3. 404 Silver badge

        Re: Won't somebody think of the....

        'What have those blokes been looking at all these years?'

        Whoosh... I'm thinking game programmer's video entertainment doesn't feature *any* women walking anywhere and basements aren't known for their window views... Just saying. lmfao...

      4. Adam 52 Silver badge

        Re: Won't somebody think of the....

        "because the blokes had no idea the hips worked differently."

        That's a reasonably controversial statement in biomechanical circles.

        Still, wouldn't go mentioning physical differences if you work at Google, that ends badly.

    4. Nick Kew Silver badge

      Re: Won't somebody think of the....

      I remember a lady programmer telling me about how she had to fix the walks of a game's female characters, because the blokes had no idea the hips worked differently.

      Was she really a programmer? Sounds more like a visual/arty kind of person. Yeah, OK, she could be someone who wears more than one hat, but really! How many programmers do you suppose give a d*** about the accurate depiction of the gait of cartoon characters in a game?

      OK, I expect having someone with her eye for detail probably improved the eventual game. Diversity of talents is good, though totally different from "diversity" imposed for SJW reasons.

  7. Shane 4

    More PC BS

    Can I give a little tip to any corporation out there, Hire the best person for the job regardless of gender,age,race,belief or watch your company go downhill in future!

    You end up with a mediocre workforce instead of a top one, That man or woman that may have had 10+ more years experience on the job could have been huge company growth, But instead you chose the straight out of college person with a bit of paper that has a stamp on it, With also hardly any experience just because they are ......

    To me hiring based on gender or race instead of experience and qualifications is discrimination and your company should be sued or cease to exist!

    1. Daggerchild Silver badge

      Re: More PC BS

      If you hire a 10-pack of crystal minds, you may find that hiring someone who can stop them rattling together may increase the productivity more than adding another shard.

      How do you explain that to HR though? Is HR allowed to select on personality type?

      1. bombastic bob Silver badge
        Devil

        Re: More PC BS

        "Is HR allowed to select on personality type?"

        Well, ENTPs probably make better engineers. I think they SHOULD! Pick a set of myers-briggs types that are ideal for the position, and use a standardized myers-briggs as part of the job application.

        THIS would get INTERESTING, Muahahahahaha! And yes, _I_ am an ENTP! But you knew that already, right?

        1. poohbear

          Re: More PC BS

          Nope, INTJs ... for coding at least.

          1. Swarthy Silver badge

            Re: More PC BS

            INTPs - Get the focus of the Introvert, the Perception to collate disparate (seemingly unrelated) aspects/projects, and all the benefits of the iNtuitive Thinker.

            1. Daggerchild Silver badge

              Re: More PC BS

              Don't forget pessimism. That's essential. Letting an optimist write code that needs to handle any errors is a terrible mistake.

  8. Nick Kew Silver badge

    This looks the most interesting

    With other ex-googler cases, it's about touchy-feely and subjective things like a hostile workplace environment. This one looks much more like objective discrimination issues: is it happening, and is it legal? Looks like a good one to follow.

    1. Voland's right hand Silver badge

      Re: This looks the most interesting

      It is something which is in the recruitment policy of a lot of the large tech companies and not just in the USA.

      So if the court rules it illegal the fallout will be on the "nuclear winter" scale. If the court rules it legal, I would suggest our Silly Valley, M4 corridor, etc colleagues to immigrate somewhere where they still hire on merit like Eastern Europe. Funnily enough they do not seem to have any issues with having a lot of women in STEM either (pretty ones too).

      1. DavCrav Silver badge

        Re: This looks the most interesting

        "So if the court rules it illegal the fallout will be on the "nuclear winter" scale. If the court rules it legal, I would suggest our Silly Valley, M4 corridor, etc colleagues to immigrate somewhere where they still hire on merit like Eastern Europe."

        It's nothing to do with England and Wales. English/Welsh law (not sure about Scotland) is unequivocal. This would be illegal here.

  9. Tim99 Silver badge
    Coat

    Don't worry

    It looks as though the problem is fixing itself - In our new efficient and improved workforce we only employ (independent?) contractors.

  10. sisk Silver badge

    It's like I've been saying for years: discrimination is illegal and immoral even when it's aimed at the majority.

    Besides, I still say that the hiring imbalances in Silicon Valley are more a product of the pool of candidates for those types of jobs than any sort of discriminatory hiring practices. It's hardly Google's fault if most folks with degrees in computer science and experience to go along with them have similar skintones and anatomies.

  11. JWLong

    Token Employees, I Love Them All

    Like I've told many an employer, when your token employees get done fuck'n things up, then give me a call to come fix it right.

    By the time the moron in charge calls me, I tell them this will be a contract job@3X$.

    There are dumb white people, black people, brown people, male people, female people. Just stop hiring DUMB people. Is this to difficult to figure out, well it must be because we now hire people because of their sex, race, creed, and color, instead of their qualifications to do a job.

    It's no wonder this country is so handicapped when it comes to competing internationally!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Token Employees, I Love Them All

      Or you can always promote them to management, along with any incompetent white men.

  12. I'm Dugly

    If it wasn't for peeps like me, you wouldn't need diversitee

    I am eternal.

    I am an aging WASP boomer, manager, with a finance MBA. I have never written a line of code beyond "hello world".

    I dorked my large-breasted Asian secretary on my bosses desk, and followed it up by taking her on a business trip and joining the mile-high club on the company's dime. Ask your parents what secretaries were.

    If it wasn't for me, there would be no need for diversity programs, labour lawyers, crisis interventions, and morning-after pills.

    Tremble in my presence.

    1. Voland's right hand Silver badge

      Re: If it wasn't for peeps like me, you wouldn't need diversitee

      Ask your parents what secretaries were.

      Some of us are old enough to remember (put some joke alert tags on your post next time by the way).

      To the ones not old enough - the secretary is a mythical minor deity, which while fickle and capricious at times could usually be pacified by a box of chocolates and some flowers.

      Primary purpose of this minor deity - to ensure that the bosses tantrums, jerk attitude and overall arseholeness is buffered and tuned down before it is unleashed on his direct reports. They were the lubricant which made an old style company work. Unfortunately as with any deity, their power was proportional to the belief in them. As we do not believe in them any more they have waned and disappeared as ghosts into the twilight.

      1. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge
        Happy

        Re: If it wasn't for peeps like me, you wouldn't need diversitee

        To the ones not old enough - the secretary is a mythical minor deity,

        Miss Moneypenny?

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3uglN05EOk

        Lois Maxwell... sigh.

      2. Wayland Bronze badge

        Re: If it wasn't for peeps like me, you wouldn't need diversitee

        "Primary purpose of this minor deity - to ensure that the bosses tantrums, jerk attitude and overall arseholeness is buffered and tuned down"

        I remember hearing a secretary explain to her boss that 'bollocks' was not an acceptable word to use in a formal communication.

  13. A-nonCoward

    time to get the frilly frock...

    and declare oneself trans?

    I mean, /that/ would really hit the diversity spot...

    (dreams of Mrs. Doubtfire, and Tootsie...)

    1. Brewster's Angle Grinder Silver badge

      Re: time to get the frilly frock...

      You won't, though, will you? Even if you thought your $sex was discriminated against and that there would be a huge advantage in "pretending" to be the other $sex, you wouldn't do it, would you? That's the nature of gender identity; it's deeply held.

      And you should admit that rather than colluding in the argument some cis women are using to attack non-cis women and defend their privilege.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: time to get the frilly frock...

        You might be surprised. Some people care deeply about being $sex (and most of them are fortunate enough that their body matches $sex), but some people actually just don't care very much - they consider themselves as being $sex because that's what their body is, and it's just easiest to go along with whatever society expects them to do.

        For those people, the main issues stopping them from changing sex for an advantage at something are things like the practicality or the social acceptability, but the actual gender identity part isn't a big deal to them.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: time to get the frilly frock...

        That's the nature of gender identity; it's deeply held.

        Two words: gender fluid. Or is that one word. Either way your assertion that gender is fixed is deeply offensive. Report for re-education.

    2. Teiwaz Silver badge

      Re: time to get the frilly frock...

      (dreams of Mrs. Doubtfire, and Tootsie...)

      All rubbish compared to I My Me! Strawberry Eggs

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_My_Me!_Strawberry_Eggs

    3. DropBear Silver badge

      Re: time to get the frilly frock...

      Sure but those high heels are _murder_ on your ankles...

    4. Wayland Bronze badge

      Re: time to get the frilly frock...

      Dolly Parton in 9 to 5.

  14. Vanir

    The art of discrimination

    Google spokesperson:"We have a clear policy to hire candidates based on their merit, not their identity,"

    So, discriminated on merit. Whatever 'merit' is and how it is 'calculated' or judged.

    And we should reflect that all our merits and flaws are a large part of our identity, our character if you will

    Do you identify with this?

    And interviews are all about finding attributes of peoples' identities to judge whether an individual interviewee will 'fit' with the interviewers' 'gut instinct' of them.

    If you click an up vote or a down vote I accuse you of discrimination.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: The art of discrimination

      "Merit" is not an identity, genius.

      Folks like you really can spout any nihilistic bs to shift the focus. No wonder society now is a mess.

      And yeah I downvote you, are you gonna sue me for discrimination? Genius?

    2. GrumpenKraut Silver badge
      Angel

      Re: The art of discrimination

      > If you click an up vote or a down vote I accuse you of discrimination.

      OK, done.

    3. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Devil

      Re: The art of discrimination

      "discriminated on merit. Whatever 'merit' is and how it is 'calculated' or judged"

      usually by looking at your resume, in the sections covering experience and/or education.

      1. Jos V

        Re: The art of discrimination

        I'll explain "merit" and how I "discriminated". Every applicant that had his/her CV land on my desk would get the same 10 question survey emailed to them. Emailed for a purpose. That being, if it took more than a day to reply, it would automatically end in the bin, and second, if I copy-paste your answer in google and it is a copy-paste from a Cisco manual only one of two things could happen... First, you don't know the answer, but manage to find out. Bravo. Second, if more than 2 answers were copied from some source or another without showing any signs of actual knowledge, the bin.

        The opening was mostly for pretty complicated work (well, no), lots of travel, and no "office hours".

        1: Explain the difference between a hub, a switch, and a router

        ...

        ...

        10: What is the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow?

        Between those, I "discriminated" a lot.

        I needed to have a team that could both work together as a team, and be able to sit in a crap, remote, smelly, cold, devoid of any communications (even working in a telco) by themselves and do the job without help. As many of us commentards probably know, data-centers are never really in prime real-estate areas.(Thank you Sunshine, Brimbank with your abattoir next to the A/C intakes)

        Coincidentally, the team I worked with was more diverse than you would find in most companies, but everyone could work alone, or as a well-oiled team together.

        I think there is a definition of discrimination that calls it something like separating bad from good.

        If I start judging people on race/religion/gender/gender-identity, you may kill me. Well, knowing Monty Python was just a bit of icing.

        1. Robert Forsyth

          Re: The art of discrimination

          Q10: What is the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow?

          A10. African or European?

          Is surely ageist.

  15. YourLordandSavior

    Youtube founder was Asian

    A Chinese American I recall. I don't know how many people still remember that. Such irony. But I presume he has no real power and control anymore after he sold his company to Google.

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Assumptions

    I always find it amusing that (typically) conservative white males leap to the assumption that the women and under-represented recruits are "token", "mediocre", or somehow less-than them.

    Is it so hard to believe that in a population of 7 Billion - some women, black people, transsexuals etc. are AT LEAST AS qualified? Perhaps even more so.

    Whatsmore - their backgrounds & inherent understanding of gender / race / culture specific issues make them MORE VALUABLE than a cookie-cutter ken. The insights they can provide may improve one's product, open new markets, or indeed alter the group dynamic - ultimately creating a more successful business & environment.

    Consider an alternative - a building full of white women clothes designers, seamstresses, marketing folk etc. all key decision makers, all working for Levo's Jeans cause fashion is for rich white girls, innit.

    Not one of them will have the innate Knowledge and experience about where the crotch should be on a man's jeans. Or how much the bottoms & hips should accommodate the (stereotypical) Black & Hispanic figure. Or that rips in the thighs are too immodest for devout Muslim women.

    In this world we must all suffer an inadequate product - or forego it entirely.

    Until one day Levo's is ground into the dust by a company that understands diversity & manages to attract the world's best regardless of colour or creed *because* it's already in the DNA of their Jeans.

    1. James 47

      Re: Assumptions

      > Whatsmore - their backgrounds & inherent understanding of gender / race / culture specific issues make them MORE VALUABLE than a cookie-cutter ken.

      LOL

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Assumptions

        @James 47

        I'm upvoting & assuming sincerity.

        But to clarify, this isn't saying one group is more valuable than another - but that it can be more valuable to a business to introduce people with different backgrounds & alternative frames of reference - rather than hire someone just like everyone else already working there.

    2. Nick Kew Silver badge

      Re: Assumptions

      I always find it amusing that (typically) conservative white males leap to the assumption that the women and under-represented recruits are "token", "mediocre", or somehow less-than them.

      I always find it amusing that (typically) white male SJWs jump to utterly unjustified conclusions about what other people think. If I were to say "my application failed because the quota was already filled", I'm not saying I'm better than a black female candidate who got the job. Merely that our respective merits were never considered, and no-one has made a judgement either way.

      She may very well be better than me (we'll never know), but even so she wasn't recruited on merit. And that should bother her too, if she has self-respect.

      Exactly as is alleged to be happening at Google.

      ObDisclaimer: I've never applied to work at Google, though I've had my share of spam from their recruiters. In common with, I suspect, most Reg commentards.

      1. This post has been deleted by its author

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Assumptions

        But her ability to do the job *was* considered... people will not (normally) hire someone who is known to be incompetent or incapable.

        They will hire someone who fulfils the job specification & give preference to the qualified candidate who brings something new to the team.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Assumptions

      Actually not leaping to the assumption they are not as qualified. However, we know for a fact less of those groups have studied computer science or are studying it now in University. You can't somehow make approx. 25% of all people trained become 50% of all people hired without hiring unqualified people.

  17. Robert Forsyth

    Appears Aburd at the Micro Level Less So at the Macro

    So the child is asked what they want to be when they grow up, they think back to the grown ups they have seen.

    1. FrozenShamrock

      Re: Appears Aburd at the Micro Level Less So at the Macro

      This may be true of a child; but, if it is true of a young adult contemplating their career path they are dumb and deserve what they get. This is my third career since graduating University and I never saw anyone in any of my fields, let alone someone that looked like me. If I only considered jobs I saw people that looked like me doing I would be a truck driver, painter, carpenter, etc. One of the goals of education is to open doors never even thought of before.

  18. Teiwaz Silver badge

    This is just not meeting Customer needs....

    Not one of them will have the innate Knowledge and experience about where the crotch should be on a man's jeans. Or how much the bottoms & hips should accommodate the (stereotypical) Black & Hispanic figure. Or that rips in the thighs are too immodest for devout Muslim women.

    No reason this fictional 'Levo Jeans' a la Clamp can't not do their 'market' research properly if they really wanted to reach those demographics.

    Not being a woman doesn't seem to hamper many persons or businesses addressing the needs of a market, provided they properly match their product to the right market. Whether this is possible or not is questionable - a specific cut of jean for a certain figure type might go down well in the right areas, provided the buying public buy for fit and not brandname. I'm not a muslim woman, and even I know ripped jeans (or hotpants) might not be a winner in certain regions...

    Any company that misses the needs of a minority, may well be doing so due to not thinking it worth their interest financially, Employing minorities for PR and diversity reasons will do no good if the company are intent on investing only in the larger audience market to maximise return on investment.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: This is just not meeting Customer needs....

      One -might- acknowledge the issues once they're pointed out - one -may- even have done the research to understand issues beyond one's own frame of reference.

      But time-and-again we see that it isn't done. Members of the out-group are ignored - it takes an outsider to come in and point out obvious flaws - or find new ideas.

      There's also the need to meet the requirements of one's own employees. Uber is the ultimate example of a brotocracy - where "bros before hos" seems to have been the motto, even following allegations of harassment.

      Arguably such an environment would not be allowed to fester in a more diverse environment.

      PS: Women are not a minority. They're 50% of the population & key decision makers in the purchasing of products - unlike in the 50s... so ignoring them *should be* financially damaging.

      But - I accept some companies do target some demographics over others... it makes sense.

  19. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Something often ignored - especially by bigots who use terms like "cookie-cutter Ken" - in the US (maybe also UK) white workers are actually underrepresented in tech. South Asians are so wildly over-represented (<3% of population, ~30% of tech workers in US) that even with most other ethnic/racial groups underrepresented (esp. black/hispanics), white tech workers are still less than their proportion of the population. Mix in east Asians (also over-represented) and the numbers are even more skewed.

    That is why most stats in the press carefully add Asians to "white" when looking at tech employment - the actual numbers make their desired script too murky.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      It certainly wasn't ignored in the article

      Nor in my comments.

      Where Asian men are over-represented one may soon start to see their conscious & unconcious biases negatively affect future decisions.

      But I assume they are still under-represented at an executive / decision-making level?

      The workforce as a whole is important, but it is Under-representation in decision makers that is one of the key problems.

      An abundance of diverse women cleaners & secretaries serving under a boardroom full of old, rich, white men will not change the fact that key decisions are all made from a very specific and similar frame of reference.

      1. Terry 6 Silver badge

        Re: It certainly wasn't ignored in the article

        Yes, this particular AC. It starts from the top. Recruiting more women/minority/disabled/working class foot soldiers to fit a quota is bo**ocks. Recruiting board members and senior managers from a diverse community and objective hiring/promotion systems that ensure,as much as possible, that the best candidates get the regular jobs and chances for promotion, is the sensible way forward. Which raises the question as to whether the top jobs still go to the same group of white well-off males as it did in their fathers' generation, even while the companies are desperate to show diversity lower down. If there are to be quotas of any kinds, anywhere it should start with the boardroom. And it needs to include ensuring that not all the appointees went to the same small pool of posh schools and daddy's Ivy League/Oxbridge/etc. universities. When the old posh white men aren't appointing younger posh white men who appoint young posh white men into management there's a chance of natural diversity through the organisation.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: It certainly wasn't ignored in the article

          Hit the nail on the head Terry 6.

          Diversity also means different life experiences etc.

          It's not enough to just have a rainbow of people with exactly the same backgrounds.

          It just so happens that race & gender are still characteristics that typically affect one's experiences. That won't always be the case - and we will want to introduce diversity in other ways to prevent stagnation.

  20. Triumphantape

    Who trust McKinsey?

    I don't, a little read up on them shows they have been tied to corruption consistently.

    Not that I'm against diversity (though you could argue that I am in the most contemporary interpretation of the word) just that I'm certain there's much more to the success of these companies than "diversity".

    1. DavCrav Silver badge

      Re: Who trust McKinsey?

      A recent article in the Economist said that forced diversity in European boardrooms has had no discernible effect on performance or on diversity in the shopfloor, or on pay differentials. You can want it in and of itself, but there are no benefits beyond those that flow to the lucky few daughters of well-connected families who get in at C-suite level.

    2. Frank Fisher

      Re: Who trust McKinsey?

      Yeah, all that award winning "diversity" didn't work out too well for Carillion, did it?

      1. DavCrav Silver badge

        Re: Who trust McKinsey?

        A quick search online for key personnel yielded this site, and it was old white man, old white man, old white man, old white woman, and the rest were apparently vampires as no pictures were available. I could take a wild stab in the dark though about them: Zafar Khan (old Asian man), Emma Mercer (old white woman), Baroness Sally Morgan of Huyton (old white woman with a crown), Andrew Dougal (old white man) and Justin Read (old white man).

  21. c1ue

    But how do you change brotopia?

    I attended an event where the author of brotopia was interviewed by the CEO of taskrabbit. That bias and misanthropy exist isn't a question; what do you expect when you have billion dollar companies started and run by packs of single twenty somethings?

    The issue I have is the fix.

    Quotas aren't just discrimination, they are legislating outcomes.

    I am a firm believer in equal opportunity but I am not a believer in legislated outcomes.

    And for all the talk about white and Asian males having it good - try it if you are white, male and 50+ getting hired on merit (as opposed to being friends with the boss)

  22. ecofeco Silver badge

    He is wrong and will lose

    There is no U.S. labor law that says a company cannot determine and set quotas for hiring minorities.

    He was fired for being obnoxious and butthurt.

    1. Adam 52 Silver badge

      Re: He is wrong and will lose

      Not an export on US law but apparently Civil Rights Act of 1964 "... forbids discrimination when it comes to any aspect of employment, including hiring, firing, pay, job assignments, promotions, layoff, training, fringe benefits, and any other term or condition of employment."

      And applies to any organisation doing significant amounts of cross state trade, or having more that 15 employees. So Google's probably covered.

  23. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    In a rare triumph of common sense, safety overrides diversity

    Have very rarely been consulted in the hiring process, but there was an occasion where I strongly recommended against hiring a particular candidate, on the grounds that HE COULD NOT SPEAK ENGLISH, and the work included interaction with heavy mobile machinery and required clear communication for protection of life.

  24. Paper

    Pity party

    Well as a gay man I would feel it's just a bit degrading if the ONLY reason I was selected was because of being a minority.

    A lot of the time, for whatever reasons, the flow of minorities (including LGBTQ+) into tech is just disproportionately less than "white cishet male". That's hardly white straight men's fault! How can it be, we are the ones not opting to go into the tech field...

    Perhaps that's due to peer pressures within our sub communities to opt for certain careers, or not achieving the required academic levels due to have screwed up upbringings due to hardships caused by various factors out of our control, etc.

    I just want to be treated fairly during an interview, not to be preferenced so I can make some company HR stats look good. There are simple ways to do this without forcing the issue.

    1. DavCrav Silver badge

      Re: Pity party

      "Perhaps that's due to [...] not achieving the required academic levels [...]"

      Not sure about this. Gay people are heavily overrepresented in academia, at least in my experience (science, not just humanities). For example, I would estimate something like 10% of mathematics PhDs are gay, way over the underlying population.

      1. Paper

        Re: Pity party

        Well take for example that gay men seem to gravitate towards subjects like the arts, humanities, nursing, architecture, service industries, clothing, etc. Not so much tech.

        Whether that's because of a subtle sub-culture, or some biological basis, or because the sciences literally just require more a lot of focus from an early age...

        The reason gay men are probably over represented in PhD's is because we have the time and capital to spare. No kids, takes longer to find ourselves a husband (well there are fewer of us, it is a little bit true about gay men being somewhat slutty), and families often give up putting pressure on us (for better or worse), etc.

        1. DavCrav Silver badge

          Re: Pity party

          "The reason gay men are probably over represented in PhD's is because we have the time and capital to spare."

          I see that, although most PhD students and prospective ones don't have children either.

          "takes longer to find ourselves a husband (well there are fewer of us, it is a little bit true about gay men being somewhat slutty)"

          It is true that the gay men that I know are more often single than the straight men I know, in academia. This will help with not having a two-body problem, but that's normally quite a long way after doing PhDs.

          I'm not going to try to come up with my own explanation for any of these rough trends, because I'm not a sociologist and have no desire to just make stuff up. Throw in the fact that I'm not gay and I don't even have personal experience to draw upon.

  25. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Tech is only racist if you mysteriously re-classify East Asians, South Asians (India) and Jews as "white"

  26. TrumpSlurp the Troll Silver badge
    Trollface

    A situation which is impossible to fix fairly

    Noting before I wade in that commentards don't have to declare sex, ethnicity, orientation etc. I do wonder how many "Hire the best for the job." fall into the white male establishment which still seems to be predominant in IT.

    Anyway, first a little anecdote. I once worked with a Marketing group of about 5 people. It was like the output from a clone factory. All white males of about the same age, height and hair colour. Their clothing choice in style, colour and pattern was almost identical. Now I challenge anyone to prove that they were the result of a diverse hiring policy which selected purely on merit. It was the most glaring example of hiring people who matched the boss that I have seen. However I don't expect that there was a hiring script which set out age, hair colour etc. as must have attributes. I expect that it was a mainly unconcious reaction of approving of people who look and act like yourself. At an instinctive level.

    If you instinctively hire to match your life experience and you have always worked in a white male environment then there will almost certainly be an unconcious bias when you interview a new applicant to join the team. The "can the team work with this person" evaluation is usually far more important than sheer technical merit. Intelligence and experience can be a disadvantage if it is coupled with arrogance.

    Baby boomers are still working their way out of the system and they were raised in a profoundly racist and sexist environment. Homosexuality was illegal, and there was legal racial discrimination in South Africa and the USA. Women had been pushed away from the independant working careers they had during the war to make way for the returning soldiers and pressured to be baby producing machines to make up for all the men killed during the war. So their role was clearly and artificially defined.

    Prophecies can be self fulfilling. If women look at a job market and see that it is predominantly white male then they may not be encouraged to chose it as a career path. Hum. One notable exception being the advice to women to get a job as a dental nurse so they can marry a rich dentist. But I digress.

    If there is inbuilt unconcious discrimination in any area then it may need positive discrimination to artificially level the playing field. Once a generation is used to a fully mixed work force in proportion to the general population then race and sex should cease to be an issue (hopefully). I know two wrongs often don't make a right but sometimes there is no completely fair route to the desired goal.

    One obvious result is that the dominant sub-group in the current work force will, quite rightly, feel discriminated against. If you accept, however, that they have benefited from generations of concious and unconcious discrimination then that is an unfortunate result but, IMHO, a necessary one.

    This is the view of a white, heterosexual male in IT. YMMV.

  27. arctic_haze Silver badge

    It is funny

    Whether it's the regular discrimination, or a reverse one, the Asiatics are always the target.

  28. Voidstorm

    Unbiased recruiting

    ... is what ought to be happening.

    After all, if the general population of programmers is 70% white, 25% asian and 5% everyone else, that's what your workforce should look like if you practice *unbiased* recruitment based on merit.

    If you adopt that policy, your employee profile will normalise *without* biased recruitment.

    Correctional bias is still unfair recruitment practice.

    Of course, if you have a small number of employees, you're not going to get a small sample to reflect the general population; that's just "physics".

    The only way to recruit fairly is to *eliminate all bias*, right?

  29. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Simple solution

    Use anonymous hiring techniques up until the final interviews, for a couple of years, and at the end of it take some measurements. I think any major organisation can say, hand on heart, that it is diverse, and does not discriminate, if it can show numbers are being hired more or less in proption to the size of each talent pool from each grouping (race/nationality/sex/ethnicity/whatever). If a given grouping has a smaller given talent pool, I don’t think it is Google’s responsibility to solve that problem (though they’re welcome to try). However, once you have hard numbers, you can:

    1. Fix any problems within the organisation (and yes, I have met the Asian manager who only seems interested in recruiting people looking to renew their visas).

    2. Externally apply some good science, as opposed to some of the pseudo bullshit race science that seems to get a lot of support here amongst the alt-wrong types (well researched my fat, hairy arse).

    Anon - the former manager I mentioned is a very sore point within the organisation.

    1. T. F. M. Reader Silver badge

      Re: Simple solution

      Use anonymous hiring techniques up until the final interviews, for a couple of years, and at the end of it take some measurements.

      How will that work? You will not get any classifying data on those applicants who do not get to then final interview if everything prior to that is completely anonymous. Thus, you will not be able to compare the sample that got the jobs to the applicants' population.

  30. KegRaider

    Diversity needs to stop

    Now don't get me wrong, diversity is good. However, in the workforce, you shouldn't hire someone because of the 'features' they posess. You hire them on their ability. If that happens to be a white female, then great. If it's an Asian male, then great. Do NOT hire because it ticks a stupid box for the mental HR department.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Diversity needs to stop

      People in tech often use nepotism and referrals from current hires to fill positions. This prevents any kind of diversity.

  31. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Self-selection is an impossible obstacle

    I live in silicon valley, and frequently go to 'meetups'. These are typically evening meetings focused on a leading-edge area.

    The last one was pretty typical, 25-30 people in the room, a pretty broad range of skin tones, with a bias toward Asian features. Not a single woman.

    In two years employers are going to want people with two years of expertise in this area. (Well, they'll ask for 3 years, but that's not possible.) There won't be a single qualified woman.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Self-selection is an impossible obstacle

      I have to say that the common evening format for meetups is itself a little discriminatory, both against those with young children (such as myself) and women who may be hesitant to take public transport at night. Even though the evening time slot does allow for better networking and further post-meetup discussion of ideas without quite as much pressure to get back to work.

  32. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    In my IT Department

    they realise the huge gender disparity in tech and the pay gap (since there are no women, other than a couple in admin), so they have externally roped in all female product managers and analysts to compensate - roles that are the natural career progression route from developer. So managers with no dev or tech background now manage lots of men who know more than them.

    But hey, they get paid more, they're women, and they're in tech, so they fill all the boxes.

  33. Frank Fisher

    Every rational person needs to stand up and denounce this crap. Either we have a meritocracy or we do not. Hire the best person for the job, always. No quotas, no excuses.

    Don't be gagged by fearing being accused of racism or sexism. Just shout the nutcases down.

  34. VulcanV5
    Flame

    Applicants must be women of child bearing age only

    I think I ought to stipulate that, next time my company needs to hire on. It isn't me being discriminatory, but anti-discriminatory, because I'm well aware of the way some small businesses are wary of recruiting women who, dammit, are very likely to get themselves pregnant and then go off on maternity leave.

    People running those businesses have privately confided to me -- privately, because ts tst, this is a subject that can never be mentioned publicly -- that the cost of maternity leave salary contributions and the hassle of repeatedly having to find temporary replacements is something they could well do without.

    Me, I couldn't disagree more. A responsible employer, like Google, should not only appear to be virtuous but actually be virtuous. From now on then, recruitment of anyone for any kind of work in my company will only be of women of child bearing age who will stop doing the job they were employed for whenever their urge to procreate overwhelms.

    My policy is absolutely not a recipe for fiscal witlessness, any more than is that of Google's or of other enterprises of similar manifest nobility. The time has passed -- thankfully! -- when the business of business was to stay in business. Instead, it's all about disregarding experience, expertise, qualification and calibre, because the business of business nowadays is to make the world a much nicer place for all.

    1. MGJ

      Re: Applicants must be women of child bearing age only

      I presume this is supposed to be a joke. And I also presume that you have never had someone working for or with you who has gone on maternity leave. Women returning to the workplace after they have given birth are awesome employees I have found; organised, focused, loyal etc

    2. martinusher Silver badge

      Re: Applicants must be women of child bearing age only

      I've more or less retired from the working world so I've had a fair amount of experience of work environments. I've had some very valuable colleagues who were women and unfortunately many of them have family pressures that impact their work from time to time. This isn't a big issue, though, because the majority of us are, or have been, parents so we know the score and we cover for each other.

      Mixed in with this, though, have been several women at both places where I and my wife have worked who have exploited the system for all its worth. As a professional you don't get a job in a leadership position and immediately go on maternity leave; yes, its your right, but its also irresponsible. In one particularly nasty case at an ex-startup (one going corporate) an old colleague of mine, someone I had worked with for years, was displaced in a management role but an ostensibly better qualified woman. Within a couple of weeks she's off on maternity leave and he's expected to continue doing his old job -- demoted, but still the expectation that he'll keep things moving along. In another case the head of a school where my wife worked was replaced by a lady who not only had little experience at this level but went on to develop a family over the next few years (leaving the day to day running to the people she'd displaced), finally leaving having sucked the honors from the environment for a better job 'back East'.

      So, yes, I'd be skeptical of certain female employees but note how its always the movers and shakers that work the system. The real workers, the ones that contribute, have that certain something that you know will allow them to contribute and not exploit. Unfortunately weeding one from the other is 'discrimination' these days (too right.....).

  35. Handle123456

    Choose one

    "We have a clear policy to hire candidates based on their merit, not their identity," Google's spokesperson said. "At the same time, we unapologetically try to find a diverse pool of qualified candidates for open roles, as this helps us hire the best people, improve our culture, and build better products."

    You can't do both at the same time you idiot!

  36. asampaio

    freedom is in danger with such politics.

  37. Lionheart

    The point is whether or not Google is employing illegal discriminatory measures under law, not whether they present a properly prescribed solution to a properly diagnosed problem.

  38. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The trouble with geeks is that

    they tend to think that merit is an unambiguous term.

    1. Swarthy Silver badge
      Trollface

      Re: The trouble with geeks is that

      Merit is unambiguous! And I have, without any doubt, more merit than anyone. Therefore, if you do not hire me, then you are not hiring on merit, but are being discriminatory!

      *The opinions stated above are not the opinions of this poster, but are presented as a parody for the purposes of humour

  39. flactem

    Silicon Valley 20 years; contract administrator procurement: I'm a black man...

    To the Anonymous individual that receives all of the thumbs down...... It's unfortunate and that your position is correct but yet most people disagree...

    I've worked at Hewlett-Packard; FMC defense contract; Cisco Systems; Apple and Google... At the early part of my career I got the unqualified excuse for not being hired... That's the safest way to keep individuals that don't look like the majority from obtaining an opportunity... Fortunately from being turn down so many times I got so good at interviewing that I practically eliminated all excuses for not being hired... After getting my start as usual I had to work twice as hard in order to make sure that my performance did not become a disqualifying aspect to continued employment...

    After observing over a period of a decade coworkers from different companies and watching their performance and their works of my counterparts... In my estimation the overwhelming amount of caucasians that occupied these jobs are not qualified... But since they don't hire anybody else and use that excuse to keep others from being hired you never really find out that there are no more smarter than anyone else they just don't have to try so hard... And I mean that with all sincerity and not an ounce of malicious intent... To be quite honest I'm not saying that all of my counterparts don't meet the highest standard of qualification there are a lot of gifted individuals out there.... But to label somebody unqualified just because they are not white to me is quite convenient and to assume that Caucasians are qualified is the epitome of folly....

    I can assure you the reason why there's not more diversity in the workforce has nothing to do with qualifications it has all to do with who people want to work next to everyday... I found that there is no job that you cannot be trained to do over a period of time... There have been individuals that have degrees that don't have common sense to think outside the box and use some imagination and believe me there are a lot of those individuals with good paying jobs.... I've now started making sure that I do phone interviews or video cops is so they can see exactly who they're getting in addition to my experience because the last thing I'm going on as another courtesy interview I can tell within 5 minutes whether they want me or not and if they don't know what I look like coming in that's the beginning of a disaster.... And working for a company that has less than 50 people is absolutely a non-starter....

    So truly unfortunate soul in here that thinks only Caucasians are qualified and no one else is you're obviously one of the hiring managers then I'm going to have to go see in order to get a job and then before I sit down you've already precluded that I'm not qualified thanks a lot...... And I've had a good look at you guys too and most you guys 70% or not qualified and I mean that..... The only reason I've been as successful as I have is because I have some imagination and I care about what I do and I'm not preoccupied with keeping my Stranglehold on economic domination.....

    Again qualifications is just a code word for All American white only... How can you call somebody unqualified before you can even see what they can do...?? Believe me I was put in some situations that were absolutely untenable as far as the percentage of success.. I was given situations professionally which were designed for me to fail however I turn those instances around I even surprise myself some of the times.. The very fact that this article was even written by an individual from Google just shows of the hubris and the insecurities most individuals have about protecting their hold on power... Don't tell me no one here has been trained on their job cuz every company is different even though the Departments are similar if they don't train you you will fail if they train you you will succeed.... For the most part I wasn't trained and that became a guarantee if I couldn't pick up the job after 3 weeks I will quit most of my job for contract... I was fortunate enough to understand that they weren't going to train me I had to read process and procedures on my own qualifications my butt.....

    PS... I have about 3 years of college no degree....

  40. codejunky Silver badge

    Hmm

    Surely the solution to this lefty PC problem is for these applicants to suddenly become trans-race (or whatever its called)? What about trans-species? Does google fill its quota on the various animals?

    PC- proof that the left like to divide.

  41. ImpureScience

    Need To Address This More Comprehensively

    From what I've seen, the balance of demographics at tech/software companies more or less tracks the balance of demographics in math and computer science classes in the schools that feed those companies, starting in high school and extending through college. In NYC, for instance, Bronx HS of Science has a student body that is 62% Asian and 22% white. Also, 56% male and 44% female. The gender thing gets worse if you look at math and computer science - it becomes a sad parody of an old Beach Boys tune: 3 guys for every girl. BxSci, like almost all of the NYC specialized schools, has just one entrance requirement: you have to do well on the Specialized High School Admissions Test (SHSAT). That is IT. There is no consideration of ethnicity, gender, income, or anything else that isn't your test score. It's probably the fairest entrance process I've ever seen.

    College is much the same, says my kid who just graduated in math and computer science. And when he transitioned to work, the balance was more or less what he had seen in school: Asian and white, mostly guys.

    I am completely supportive of hiring people from groups previously denied a fair chance at full participation in our culture and economic life. I also applaud the effort to find qualified candidates in all demographic groups. However, I feel that trying to address this problem in a serious way needs to happen at a much earlier age, probably preschool or even earlier; it's systemic and pervasive.

  42. FrozenShamrock

    Maybe under represented groups are too smart for IT

    It is hard to hire a certain percentage of a group if that group is under represented in the overall talent pool because they opted not to take the training etc. Maybe these groups looked at IT and saw how under paid, over worked, under appreciated, and generally treated like shit most IT peons are and decided to avoid it like the plague.

    It is certainly wrong to discriminate against anyone because of who/what they are instead of what they know or what experience they have. But, unless the overall talent pool reflects the overall population it is impossible for the work force to do so. If there are institutional barriers for certain types of people to get the training that is where the outage and effort should be directed at.

  43. martinusher Silver badge

    How to fix Google's problems

    This might seem a bit counter-intuitive but all they have to do to fix their hiring problems is to move development to a generic office park that's preferably not in Silicon Valley. Most of the workforce will be placed in a large open area full of identical cubes. Decor will be minimal, a plant or two in the front entrance lobby, maybe some generic poster art in a couple of the meeting rooms. Refreshment facilities will consist of a couple of break areas equipped with a Mr Coffee drip machine, generic coffee, powdered creamer and sugar plus a kettle and maybe some tea bags. Lunch areas will have some microwaves and vending machines.

    The problem that Google has is that they pay too much and they're perceived as a good place to work so everyone's squabbling over jobs, elbowing their way in using whatever edge they can get ("Mine!" "No, I'm more discriminated against than you!"). Meanwhile more normal places where people work are hurting for workers. Its true that if Google et al follow the path that such companies normally follow they'll eventually spiral down to the generic working environment but this typically takes a bit of time so they might as well save themselves a boat load of cash and legal expenses by going there right now. (....and there's always overseas facilities....)

  44. granfalloon

    Any form of discrimination is plain wrong ...

    ... be it positive or otherwise - encourage applications from under-represented groups by all means, use 'blind' screening to prevent any bias creeping in, but always, always hire the best candidate for the job regardless of race, creed etc.

  45. twisty

    Google Discrimination Algo

    stopDiscrim():

    if(discrim > 0):

    discim++

  46. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    This is why more diversity is needed

    According to its own internal report in 2017:

    “Google’s overall workforce is 56% White, 35% Asian, 4% two or more races, 4% Hispanic or Latinx, 2% Black and less than 1% American Indian or Alaskan Native, and Native Hawaiian or Pacific Islander.”

    Women make up 20% of the tech workforce.

    The reg article states that Google is trying to hire low level tech workers from a qualified pool of minority candidates. I can’t see how this will hurt Google or the White and Asian men who dominate the company today. The numbers may go up 3 or 4 points?

    We can’t be that arrogant and afraid to say if all things being relevant someone else can’t get a shot because I always feel more qualified. Education and Socioeconomic background don’t always mean someone will be a great coder.

    Commenters here sound like white southerners from the 60s when they refused to let people in the universities and white collar jobs.

    It’s not every position nor every hiring round. It should all be based on merit but sometimes other Americans need a shot.

  47. Instinct46

    "At the same time, we unapologetically try to find a diverse pool of qualified candidates for open roles, as this helps us hire the best people, improve our culture, and build better products."

    So they did do what Arne Wilberg said they did.

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