back to article Perusing pr0nz at work? Here's a protip: Save it in a file marked 'private'

A Frenchman who was fired after his bosses discovered porn stored on his work computer has been told his human rights were not violated by his employers' snooping. The case goes way back to 2007, when Eric Libert was suspended from his role as head of the regional surveillance unit in Amiens, northern France, for railway firm …

  1. Snorlax
    Happy

    I’m more intrigued...

    ...by the fact that a train company has a regional surveillance unit, and that this bloke had fake paperwork relating to it.

    BTW, viewing pr0n at work? Take your phone to the toilet like a normal person.

    1. Snorlax

      Re: I’m more intrigued...

      Never mind, a quick Google tells me the ‘surveillance’ is to do with SNCF’s suppliers and the quality of their products.

      1. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge
        Happy

        Re: I’m more intrigued...

        Does SNCF not have an official porn supplier? Honest guv, I was just testing it!

        Surely the 1st class passengers should have acces to the finest flicks de grumble?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: I’m more intrigued...

          "Flicks de grumble"? Non, monsieur! Le expressione et "flicks grumbleissant", decide par le Academie Francaise!

          On such matters, do the Frogs still use "les flics" in much the same way that some Rosbifs use the term "the filth"? I'm sure there's some lukewarm humour to mined there.

          1. Steve the Cynic Silver badge

            Re: I’m more intrigued...

            On such matters, do the Frogs still use "les flics" in much the same way that some Rosbifs use the term "the filth"?

            From what I hear around me(1), it seems that "the cops" is a better translation than "the filth", but I wouldn't want to say that it's never used in a way that I'd translate as "filth" or "pigs".

            (That is, it seems to lack most of the pejorative element that's in "the filth".)

            (1) Pay attention, you there in the back! I've been living and working in France for the last nine years, and outside my home, almost everything I do is done in French.

        2. Robert Carnegie Silver badge

          Re: I’m more intrigued...

          Apparently, one of the first uses of photography in France was... government-approved images of an "artistic" subject (i.e. nude women), the said image - approved for sale - being called an "academie". Before photography, the approval system was for painters in the same line. With photography it got rather overloaded. This golden age was from about 1840-1855 according to Wikipedia Not Safe For Work https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erotic_photography which seem to be mainly citing a television documentary which I admit I remember quite well myself. Perhaps you do too.

          So the stuff was official then.

          Students of how technological progress is propelled may be pleased to note early adoption of stereography, the 19th century's virtual reality, if you will.

  2. Zog_but_not_the_first Silver badge
    WTF?

    Er, what's pr0nz got to do with it?

    Forged certificates!? Isn't that the reason he was shown the door?

    1. LDS Silver badge

      Re: Er, what's pr0nz got to do with it?

      Probably, but that would have been a bit more difficult to challenge in courts as a "private affair".

  3. wolfetone Silver badge

    Never ceases to amaze me how people can have a wank at work.

    1. Teiwaz Silver badge

      Never ceases to amaze.

      I've been places they've run open soft skills sessions about hugs and offered massages....

      Quite a lot of male workers avoided them, thinking it some sort of entrapment or sting operation....

      1. Snorlax
        Joke

        Re: Never ceases to amaze.

        @Teiwaz:"I've been places they've run open soft skills sessions about hugs and offered massages...."

        If you're called to attend one of these sessions by your employer, you won't get any hugs or massages.

        You might get to sign a piece of paper at the end though, promising not to hug or massage your female colleagues...

    2. sisk Silver badge

      It doesn't surprise me at all. You're talking about a psychological phenomenon that's about as close to a droud as you can (currently) get in the real world. Is it really any surprise that some guys who overindulge show some serious lapses in judgement?

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      I think it's the lure of getting paid to wank, double bonus.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        "I think it's the lure of getting paid to wank, double bonus."

        Some of us are content merely to have a shit at work on that basis.

        1. handleoclast Silver badge

          Doing private stuff at work

          Some of us are content merely to have a shit at work on that basis.

          A long time ago I worked with somebody who would always go for a crap five minutes after lunch break ended. It was an hour-long break so employees had the opportunity to do some shopping or whatever after eating. But he'd always hold it in until lunch break was over, rather than do it in his own time

          I'm not faulting him for that attitude, but some days he did look a little strained before visiting the bog. A man of principles, prepared to suffer discomfort rather than violate those principles.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Doing private stuff at work

            A long time ago I worked with somebody who would always go for a crap five minutes after lunch break ended. ..... A man of principles, prepared to suffer discomfort rather than violate those principles.

            I always admire a man of principles. But we should recognise that the employers are fighting back, using such inhumane tactics as "Bear's Arse" brand toilet paper made from iron filings, swarf and powdered nettle and jellyfish mix. Or, as one German-owned energy supplier tried, scouring the world to find a supplier of the lightest weight single ply toilet paper they could buy. After finding how easily this tore, the employees (self included) took to using metres of the stuff for each wipe, leading to two and a half years of expensive maintenance because the bogs were always blocked, and no saving on the bog roll costs because more got used. Even after they reverted to normal trade grade arsewipe, the hard learned lessons means that people were still stuffing the bog with metres of the stuff.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      >Never ceases to amaze me how people can have a wank at work.

      Did you mean why instead of how? How they do it is probably the same way they do it in their own time. I'll spare the details.

    5. LucreLout Silver badge
      Joke

      Never ceases to amaze me how people can have a wank at work.

      Most of my colleagues are wankers.

    6. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      You're in an open plan office too?

      It's alright so long as you're not beside the window to the street - the glass walled offices steam up

  4. HmmmYes Silver badge

    Surely folder names 'privates'?

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    ... or mark it as ...

    "constituent correspondence - privileged"

  6. x 7

    Any normal person just RDPs into a free trial Amazon VM and views it remotely

    1. Voland's right hand Silver badge

      The wheels of justice turn slowly. Very slowly...

      This was 2007. Technology has moved on.

    2. Voyna i Mor Silver badge

      Any normal person just RDPs into a free trial Amazon VM and views it remotely

      For some value of "normal person".

      Most people I guess would assume that anything on Amazon labelled "free trial" will start costing you £10 a month very quickly.

  7. andy 103
    Joke

    The real story

    It's interesting that the French are known for strike action and generally being lazy. Yet when they do go into work they look at porn... and have rules that means it might, in some circumstances, be alright.

    It's a wonder they get anything done over there. Then again I'm not sure what the market demand for shit cars and disgusting cheese actually is.

    1. H in The Hague Silver badge

      Re: The real story

      Now, I'm not familiar with France, apart from the Dunkerque ferry terminal. But I do think that your observations are incorrect.

      "It's interesting that the French are known for strike action and generally being lazy. "

      https://data.oecd.org/lprdty/gdp-per-hour-worked.htm

      France consistently has a slightly higher productivity of labour than the UK.

      "**** cars"

      Ermm, not sure what your experience in this area is, but I've had my Renault Clio Estate for a decade or so and it's been extremely reliable and fuel efficient. Best compactish car for carrying loads of stuff I've had since my Austin Maxi (now, that dates me :).

      1. andy 103

        Re: The real story

        Yes, you and 6 other people seemed to have missed the "Joke Alert" icon. Not everything has to be taken so seriously. Zut alors!

        1. Dr_N Silver badge
          WTF?

          Re: The real story

          @andy103 'Yes, you and 6 other people seemed to have missed the "Joke Alert" '

          You posted a joke?! Where?

        2. Wilseus

          Re: The real story

          "Yes, you and 6 other people seemed to have missed the "Joke Alert" icon."

          The icons don't show up on my mobile phone's browser.

        3. Boring Bob

          Re: The real story

          Aren't jokes supposed to be funny? Your comment was an idiotic repetition of insults and brainless prejudice. Which part of it would you consider to be witty?

      2. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge

        Re: The real story

        France does have higher productivity than the UK. But at the price of having had double digit unemployment for most of the last 30 years.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: The real story

          Real UK unemployment is at similar levels to France. Consecutive governments starting with Thatcher have massaged the definition of unemployment.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: The real story

            governments starting with Thatcher have massaged the definition of unemployment.

            Unlikely, the OECD figures all use the OECD rules to calculate it.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: The real story

        "France consistently has a slightly higher productivity of labour than the UK."

        The graph on that page you link is GDP growth normalized to 2010, so not relevant. If you look at absolute numbers you will find that the UK has a higher GDP per person. However GDP is a very strange measurement tool. Anyone who has had to deal with French bureaucracy will tell you it's very hard to achieve anything as there are vast armies of bureaucrats there to make it difficult. However all of the time and effort spent both producing the bureaucracy and people (at work) navigating around it counts as GDP even though the sum of the effort is zero. Hire a million more bureaucrats that make it even harder to get real work done and GDP goes up!

        1. Phil Endecott Silver badge

          Re: The real story

          >"France consistently has a slightly higher productivity of labour than the UK."

          >The graph on that page you link is GDP growth normalized to 2010,

          Productivity is not the same as GDP, normalised or otherwise.

      4. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: The real story

        > France consistently has a slightly higher productivity of labour than the UK.

        Which just proves that the old theory about most statistics being made up is true. Having lived and worked in both UK and France I find that particular statistic impossible to believe.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: The real story

      They get sacked. In the UK you do not.

      This is a real case from a real UK Fortune 100 company.

      1. A lady is about to have a formal interview with HR and her new manager because she has not produced any work for the last 6 months (since management changed) and it is not clear if she did before that.

      2. She suffers a fit in the middle of the interview, foam at the mouth, ambulance, etc. The works. Apparently because she is overly stressed out by the proceedings. She is carted out leaving the laptop in the room.

      3. Manager smells something iffy and orders the laptop to be inspected and mail searched.

      4. When her laptop is inspected, HR and manager find a thread with a colleague discussing exactly what drugs does she need to take, what time before interview and in what dose.

      5. Queue gross misconduct dismissal proceedings for both people involved.

      6. Union steps in. The thread with the colleague was in a a folder called Private.

      7. All proceedings are dropped, manager leaves shortly, both employees still "work" (quotes needed) in the aforementioned PLC.

      So, dunno about P0RN, but defrauding your employer is definitely OK if you are in UK and you stash it in a folder called Private. Just do not forget to pay your union racketmembership fees on time.

      I am preserving the name of the PLC to protect the guilty. It is a company often discussed on the Register (and the case is actually well known outside it too).

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: The real story

        So, dunno about P0RN, but defrauding your employer is definitely OK if you are in UK and you stash it in a folder called Private

        In the US, the Supremes have decided it's ok for your employer to look at anything on your work or personal or home computers.

        1. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge
          Happy

          Re: The real story

          In the US, the Supremes have decided it's ok for your employer to look at anything on your work or personal or home computers.

          Since when did Dianna Ross get to decide HR policy?

          1. Korev Silver badge
            Coffee/keyboard

            Re: The real story

            Love it!

      2. 0laf Silver badge

        Re: The real story

        If true the company must have fucked up. There was a recent EU case relevant in the UK of Bărbulescu Vs Romania.

        If the company makes it clear that personal communications may be intercepted and that interception is reasonable then it's tough titty for the claimant.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: The real story

        They get sacked. In the UK you do not.

        If you think it's difficult to sack someone in the UK then you have no experience of France.

        When the choice of closing an office is the one in the UK or the one in France, it will be the UK one closed every time, simply because it is much, much cheaper to do so.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: The real story

          "When the choice of closing an office is the one in the UK or the one in France, it will be the UK one closed every time, simply because it is much, much cheaper to do so."

          Management can be held personally liable in France.

          If my French boss had sold a subsidiary in the manner that UK HQ wanted him to do, he could have faced jail.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: The real story

          When the choice of closing an office is the one in the UK or the one in France, it will be the UK one closed every time, simply because it is much, much cheaper to do so.

          The upside if that is that when US management is looking to expand, they'll hire in the UK long before they'll add staff in France.

          1. Joe Harrison Silver badge

            Re: The real story

            The upside if that is that when US management is looking to expand, they'll hire in the UK long before they'll add staff in France.

            I think you'll have a long wait before seeing any future evidence of "expand" or "hire" in the UK ☹

      4. veti Silver badge

        Re: The real story

        So... Woman who has been made to feel useless and redundant for six months is dragged into interview, suffers epileptic fit because she hasn't had correct medication - very likely, in my experience, because the time of the interview has been changed at the last minute - and employers take the opportunity to ransack her personal files? Yeah, I'm completely sure they acted impeccably.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: The real story

          So.. Woman who has been made to feel useless and redundant for six months is dragged into interview, suffers epileptic

          1. Woman in question did not produce any known piece of work for 5 years. Change of managers uncovered it.

          2. Woman in question consumed drugs to SIMULATE a fit. She discussed exactly what and how much she needs to take in order for the fit to start within 30 minutes from the moment she takes them and discussed in detail what are her risks and how to minimize them so she does not kick the bucket by mistake.

          3. Woman in question did not produce any piece of work for the next 2 years after that (until I left the company in question - about a year after her manager).

          4. She defrauded her employer and colluded to do so with another union member. They would probably have criminal convictions for fraud both of them if it was not the union stepping in (the company in question is unionized to the point where even the managers have a union).

          1. SMITCH79

            Re: The real story

            I'm guessing BT?

      5. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: The real story

        That sounds a bit made up.

      6. Richocet

        Re: The real story

        If you could supply me with a link to the news article about this I would like to learn more. I'm sure such an incident would have made for lots of interest in the news.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      But not "British Leyland in the 1970s" levels of shit, right?

      @andy 103; "Then again I'm not sure what the market demand for shit cars and disgusting cheese actually is"

      Not very high, judging by the rapid decline of almost every major British car maker from the 1970s onwards (followed by their disappearance or foreign takeover). Or by Lymeswold cheese.

  8. heyrick Silver badge

    Seems an interesting argument

    If you are using a work provided computer for work related business, can you seriously expect any privacy for personal stuff that may also be on the machine without this being agreed upon in advance?

    What of instead of pr0ⁿ it was terrorist related stuff? People would be screaming about how companies should be "vigilant" and "proactive".

    As for this... It ain't hard to use a USB key, or if not permitted, a passworded archive, or just keep them on an off-site service and log in with a browser in private mode.

    1. Mark 85 Silver badge

      Re: Seems an interesting argument

      Nice idea. The problem with this is "log in with a browser in private mode.". Most places I've worked at, keep track of and check the access logs on the firewall. Porn sites stick out like a sore thumb. Basic rule... never hit a porn site at work. Now usually, in some places, a personal laptop can use the "guest" wifi many companies have without being tracked. Caveat emptor or some other relevant Latin phrase applies.

    2. Velv Silver badge
      Childcatcher

      Re: Seems an interesting argument

      There is zero* excuse these days for doing any personal work on an employers device.

      Most people have SmartPhones, tablets are cheap and can have cellular access, even laptops can have connectivity. If something is so urgent it can’t wait until you get home then most tasks can be completed on a personal device.

      *zero - there are a tiny proportion of workplaces where personal devices are banned. Most I’ve seen then have a staff “Internet cafe” that can be used for personal business during working hours. Not that I’m suggesting fapping in the cafe is permitted

  9. Dr. G. Freeman

    nah, you have a folder, marked Pron (make it as blatant as that) on the desktop, put in this image http://mdfs.net/Info/Comp/BBC/Circuits/BBC/bbc.gif and that's it.

    Inquisitive people look at your computer, find this, give you strange looks, and leave you alone to look at proper stuff of your fancy (like, say for example, the delightful Victoria Coren-Mitchell) at your leisure.

    1. heyrick Silver badge

      http://mdfs.net/Info/Comp/BBC/Circuits/BBC/bbc.gif

      What's wrong with that? Perfectly decent geek Proⁿ, from a bygone era when computers made sense and could be fiddled with and weren't opaque black boxes half drowned in NDAs........

      [guess my first computer ;)]

  10. A Non e-mouse Silver badge

    Pr0n at work

    Why is it that people have to view pr0n at work? Why can't they wait a few hours until they get home?

    1. John G Imrie Silver badge

      Re: Pr0n at work

      Do you want to view porn with the misses and kids around?

      1. Teiwaz Silver badge

        Re: Pr0n at work

        Do you want to view porn with the misses and kids around?

        Send the kids out to the cinema/round to the neighbours

        Then 'go to work' on the missus

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Pr0n at work

          Send the kids out to the cinema/round to the neighbours

          Then 'go to work' on the missus

          You realisze the missus is why pr0n is first place, no?

        2. Velv Silver badge
          Headmaster

          Re: Pr0n at work

          “Then 'go to work' on the missus”

          I’m not really part of the PC brigade but you should be careful of your words. Those “men” who cannot wait until they get home are also potentially those men who will actually ‘go to work’ on the Missus, permission or not.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Pr0n at work

        "Do you want to view porn with the misses and kids around?"

        Misses? Just how busy are you?

    2. Voyna i Mor Silver badge

      Re: Pr0n at work - Why is it that people have to view pr0n at work?

      I guess because, as Thoreau actually said "The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation".

      Not him, when he lived in his log hut he was smart enough and entitled enough to get Mum to do his washing.

    3. J J Carter Silver badge

      Re: Pr0n at work

      Surely every El Reg reader has experienced a 'sexual emergency' at work?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Pr0n at work

        Surely every El Reg reader has experienced a 'sexual emergency' at work?

        A long time ago. A young fermale assistant DBA came to work on a Sunny day in a fine white Summer dress.

        Then some idiot pointed it out to her....

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Pr0n at work

        > Surely every El Reg reader has experienced a 'sexual emergency' at work?

        More like boredom emergency.

        Fuck I'm so so bored, what can I do? Play cricket in the corridor. Steel someone's cake from the fridge. Go for a haircut. Real shite websites. Make random edits to wikipedia. Have a wank?

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Pr0n at work

      I've got a pr0n folder on the C: drive of my work PC.

      But it's Tech pr0n: Datasheets of cool ICs. Math and Science papers. Famous reports.

      Don't worry. I wash my hands after.

  11. Terry 6 Silver badge

    Also stupidity

    If you don't get the boot for the material, surely you should still get the boot because this is an indicator that you are too stupid or risky to be trusted in the job you do.

  12. Andraž 'ruskie' Levstik

    Make it obvious it's private

    It sorta goes the same here in Slovenia.

    Infact it goes a step further - all data on your work computer is technically protected.

    But in certain cases an employer might need to gain access - in such a case things marked "private" are off limits to them completely(even if it's in your work mailbox - if it's a folder marked private - no touching).

    If you don't do an offboarding process and have the worker pass over the data - they can sue you if you access that data afterwards.

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I wonder what the UK position is?

    I was struggling to think what could possibly be private from your employer and legitimately on your work computer. Then I realised I have a folder called "private" in my own documents folder... it contains historic sick notes; correspondence with Union representatives; salary negotiations etc.

    For each of those categories there are some people within the company who are entitled to read some of the material, but it certainly isn't fair game for any other employee, even managers, who are not directly concerned with those issues.

    1. Mycho Silver badge

      Re: I wonder what the UK position is?

      The UK position is well known.

      "If you're not doing anything wrong..."

    2. Wensleydale Cheese Silver badge

      Re: I wonder what the UK position is?

      Missionary position, n'est-ce pas?

      aka

      la position Britannique

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I bet after this his career has come off the tracks.

    1. Korev Silver badge
      Coat

      I wonder which platform he'll train on next

  15. ecofeco Silver badge

    Pron at work?

    That's executive skills! I can see why he's miffed. He deserved a promotion! Where he can then ignore any reports from I.T. of network breaches.

    Not even joking, am I?

  16. Lee D Silver badge

    But... even putting it in a folder still gives them the right to view it.

    They would have just had to have had in the room when they did so.

    They'd STILL have sacked it for what was there, and therefore what was being done presumably on work-time.

    That kind of law is for things like "I booked a flight and needed the details to call during my lunch hour, so I saved it" and stop the employing snooping into that, not "I put my porn stash on the work machine so now I'm immune and able to watch them in work".

  17. Potemkine! Silver badge

    What a wanker

    The court said nothing new, that ruling exists since 2006.

  18. This post has been deleted by its author

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Perusing pr0nz ?

      "PPS: Pronz has absolutely NOTHING to do at work, on work equipment, even if used outside of the office ... this ruling sucks!"

      Unless, of course, your job is to do digital editing/enhancement of porn. Then your machine should be full of the stuff!

      1. Mark 85 Silver badge

        Re: Perusing pr0nz ?

        Unless, of course, your job is to do digital editing/enhancement of porn. Then your machine should be full of the stuff!

        Then you'll get sacked if it's not full of the stuff.

      2. Korev Silver badge

        Re: Perusing pr0nz ?

        “Unless, of course, your job is to do digital editing/enhancement of porn. Then your machine should be full of the stuff!”

        I used to vaguely know a guy whose job that was. Apparently he went from being an avid consumer to “meh” very quickly!

        I also know someone who went to work for a well known smut emporium* who loves his job (tonnes of data, busy websites, security etc).

        *They have a “castle” in San Francisco, so many of El Reg’s SF office are probably “familiar” with it ;)

    2. Suricou Raven

      Re: Perusing pr0nz ?

      Some of us have given up on the sex and relationships thing. It's time-consuming, expensive and drama-prone. Takes away precious time that could otherwise be used for more interesting hobbies. Give me my smut to satisfy the instincts, and let me get back to assembling things from kits and playing computer games, for I do not feel my status as an adult is tied to how often I get laid.

      1. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken Silver badge

        Re: Perusing pr0nz ?

        You are Arnold J Rimmer, SSC, BSC, and I claim my £5!

  19. J J Carter Silver badge
    Boffin

    Thank you Brussels!

    I'm doing a mashup of this and the Code Corner on Electron to code a pr0nz-bot to d/l nudie pics to a /private folder in my Office 365 Onedrive for Business; that 1TB is filling fast!

    1. Mark 85 Silver badge

      Re: Thank you Brussels!

      Well, the Internet is fast filling up with porn. It needs to be downloaded to make room for other stuff. You're providing a public service by doing this. Carry on.

  20. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    wanker (in the British sense..)

    ne ful know you don't put your Prons in a folder marked "private", you put it in a folder marked "annual keyboard inventory statistics"

  21. Stevie Silver badge

    Le Bah!

    Bleeding enfer!

  22. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge

    privé?

    Well, if you want to store porn on your computer (and you're working in France), pop it in a file marked "private"

    Shirely, the word in this case should be "privé" ?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: privé?

      privé de quoi?

  23. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    To avoid any legal nonsense, I use my engineering test laptop computer for almost everything and it is encrypted with a key known only to me. The official work laptop is used only when I have the time to wait for it to boot up and install 200 patches...

    1. Korev Silver badge

      If you’re doing work on an unauthorised PC then that could have legal ramifications.

  24. unwarranted triumphalism

    Nice try at sneaking in anti-Conservatve hate

    That spiteful attack on wrongly-accused Conservative MP Damian Green wasn't at all an irrelevance, was it?

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