back to article Private submarine builder charged with murder of journalist

Danish submariner Peter Madsen has today been charged with the murder of journalist Kim Wall. At a press conference Danish police announced that Madsen was also charged with dismembering Wall, and with "sexual assault without intercourse of a particularly dangerous nature", referencing multiple stab wounds found on the body. …

  1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

    That's the best headline you could manage ?

    The post is required, and must contain letters.

    1. Wyrdness

      Re: That's the best headline you could manage ?

      Why is that? Do you feel that the Reg isn't being sufficiently flippant about this woman's murder.

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: That's the best headline you could manage ?

        It has no UK technology industry angle so el`reg is only covering the story to get clicks for advertisers - so it might as well have a flippant headline

        1. Swarthy Silver badge
          Meh

          Re: That's the best headline you could manage ?

          I think that they are covering it because they started when it was "Crowd-funded, privately owned submarine sank, Journalist Missing" [paraphrased headline/summarized article] because the sub was the interesting bit, and the journo was presumed safe - somewhere. Then they kept following the story as it got more and more bizarre, and I guess they want to finish the story.

          As the severity of what was revealed to have happened increased, the flippancy decreased.

          1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
            Windows

            There is only one question...

            Will David Lynch pick this up and make a movie?

          2. DocJames

            Re: That's the best headline you could manage ?

            I think it was pretty obvious (as his story kept changing, her family were distressed ++ and the police were *very* interested) within a day or so after she was reported missing that she was dead - ie by the time that he was found. Agree that suspicions and allegations are difficult to write clearly, particularly in this post-Gawker/Peter Thiel era, which might be why journalists (at least in all the stories I read) were circumspect.

        2. Mark 85 Silver badge

          Re: That's the best headline you could manage ?

          It's in Bootnotes... no tech required. If you've been following along, not all of El Reg's stories are about tech and those who work it.

    2. phuzz Silver badge
      IT Angle

      Re: That's the best headline you could manage ?

      The elReg angle is the homebrew submarine, and his involvement with Copenhagen Suborbitals up until a few years ago.

      Some people would be content with a biography like that, but nooo, he had to get involved with a grisly murder charge as well.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Not sure why and I'm guessing it's intuition but I think he may get found guilty.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I don't think it's going to take the jury very long to find him guilty.

    1. Sandtitz Silver badge

      jury...

      Juries are not really used in Swedish courts of law. But the judge(s) will still find him guilty, don't worry.

      1. stephanh Silver badge

        Re: jury...

        "Juries are not really used in Swedish courts of law." But the Danish police has the tendency to bring cases in a Danish court of law. And they do have juries.

        "Jury cases are cases in which the prosecution claims punishment by imprisonment of four years or more or in which the accused may be committed to custody or other detention."

        http://www.domstol.dk/om/publikationer/HtmlPublikationer/Profil/Profilbrochure%20-%20UK/kap08.html

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: jury...

          Might start a sh1t storm but as a Yank nothing I want less than a jury of my mouth breathing peers. Would much rather have a jury of judges like they do in some Euro countries who actually know law instead what they saw on law and order. I understand why founding fathers didn't want it what with dealing with the Crown at the time in charge of judges (oop looks like started in English common law before that, sorry few things more boring to me than judicial history) but the times have changed and Joe six pack is not an age of enlightenment polymath these days.

          1. Voyna i Mor Silver badge

            Re: jury...

            "Might start a sh1t storm but as a Yank nothing I want less than a jury of my mouth breathing peers."

            It has long been an axiom of English law "If you're innocent go before a judge, if guilty a jury."

            In this case I have the faintest suspicion this might just possibly lead him to want a jury trial. With a hand picked jury of psychopaths.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: jury...

              >It has long been an axiom of English law "If you're innocent go before a judge, if guilty a jury."

              Wow look at that. That was Sheriff Joe's strategy too but it didn't work at least at first. That is until he got lucky and the US elected someone with even more contempt of the rule of law than himself.

          2. grizewald

            Re: jury...

            Don't fool yourself with the idea of the grass of justice being greener in Sweden.

            The magistrates who decide your guilt are politically appointed. They don't come from your peers. They don't think the same way as many of your peers. They accept evidence from security guards, parking attendants and similar wannabe police without question.

            Once the machine gets hold of you here in Sweden, you're screwed. If you get caught with the chemicals from smoking weed in your blood, you are breaking the law and will get a record for minor possession of a controlled substance. If you have a driver's license and want to keep it, you will have to pay for your random piss test every month for the next year. (This is in addition to the fine you pay which is sized depending on how much you earn.)

            If some security guards at a nightclub decide to drag you into their detention room and beat you silly while they wait for the police to arrive, your word is against police approved security guards. You have no chance in the courts. None whatsoever.

            Trust me. I live here.

          3. disgruntled yank Silver badge

            Re: jury...

            Well, the jurist Learned Hand did say that in his worst nightmares he was the defendant in a trial by jury. Having said that, the jury you end up with might depend on what your attorney can use in the way of peremptory challenges; the one jury I was on that sat until a verdict was OK. And de Tocqueville in some of his notes on the American legal system remarked that judges often end up by thinking that everyone is guilty.

          4. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

            Re: jury...

            Joe six pack is not an age of enlightenment polymath these days

            *News Flash*

            Human nature in "not changing very much" shocka! Mouth breathers were present in history too claims unknown Internet commentator!

            (Yes - I suspect that the people in the 1770s were the same mixture of idoits, morons, average people and slightly-brighter-than-normal types as today..)

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: jury...

              Yeah but I assumed (maybe incorrectly too lazy to look) that back then only white land owning males (ie the wealthy) got to serve on juries (that seems to be the case for most other things then like the franchise). I could see how they might assume the jury would be made of people with a good classical education so would assume a need for those trained in law wouldn't be as necessary. I totally agree about the cross section of true society over time though. With far worse medical care they may have even been worse off due to ailments and malnutrition.

        2. Sandtitz Silver badge
          Facepalm

          Re: jury...

          "But the Danish police has the tendency to bring cases in a Danish court of law. And they do have juries."

          You're of course right. I just associated the SVT links to Sweden and drew wrong conclusions. My bad.

  4. batfink
    Holmes

    I, for one, will be interested to hear the next few versions of his story.

    1. Stevie Silver badge

      I, for one, will be interested to hear the next few versions of his story

      "No sooner was the hatch down and the sonar pinging away than she went completely to pieces."

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: I, for one, will be interested to hear the next few versions of his story

        She tripped over a cordless phone.

  5. Patched Out
    Headmaster

    Semantics

    "Peter Madsen ruled fit to stand trial, but denies allegation"

    So... he denies that he is fit to stand trial?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Semantics

      Too arrogant to willing go with an insanity plea. Not sure about Europe but those sure quit working after Reagan got shot. But your pedantic point stands.

      1. phuzz Silver badge

        Re: Semantics

        I don't know about Denmark, but in the UK, if you're clearly not of right mind when committing a crime they're more likely to have you detained under the mental health act, rather than prosecuting the case.

        This of course means you're now serving at Her Majesty's pleasure and could potentially spend much more time locked up than if you'd been prosecuted. But hopefully getting the care you need.

  6. handleoclast Silver badge

    WTF???

    "sexual assault without intercourse of a particularly dangerous nature"

    You can have sexual intercourse in dangerous ways? I didn't know that. Well, obviously you can have sexual intercourse in dangerous situations, such as on a railway track, but sexual intercourse of a dangerous nature?

    referencing multiple stab wounds found on the body.

    None of my sexual experiences, and none of my fantasies, have ever involved stabbing. Stabbing definitely constitutes dangerous behaviour, but stabbing is dangerous sexual intercourse???

    BTW, we need a question mark icon to go with the exclamation mark.

    1. Nunyabiznes

      Re: WTF???

      He got off on the stabbing of Ms. Wall, not raping her?

      Some people are so broken you just can't fix them. Unfortunately we generally find this out right after some heinous crime has been committed.

      1. handleoclast Silver badge

        Re: WTF???

        He got off on the stabbing of Ms. Wall, not raping her?

        Call me pedantic, but I just don't see that as sexual assault. Just assault. What matters, it seems to me, is the effects upon the victim, not the motivations of the perpetrator.

        It's entirely possible Donald Trump gets off by screwing people out of money (reneging on contracts, etc). I wouldn't class that as sexual fraud even if I saw him creaming his jeans as he ripped people off.

        Thinking about it, maybe he stabbed her more in sexual areas than other places. But whether even that constituted sexual assault would depend to some extent on whether it was pre- or post-mortem.

        As far as I can see it's murder and all lesser charges are irrelevant. Maybe, with good lawyers, he could plead it down to sexual assault resulting in accidental death. For some reason I hope he wouldn't get away with that.

        1. Sampler

          Re: WTF???

          Maybe he stabbed a hole, then poked the hole, would that satisfy your query?

          Now I'm going to go have a quiet word with my mind on how it works and the inventful ways it resolves problems put before it, replete with images, even when it wasn't asked to do so...

          1. wolfetone Silver badge

            Re: WTF???

            In one version of the report, I think from The Guardian, it was disclosed as the victim suffered stab wounds around the genitals.

            1. Morten_T

              Re: WTF???

              "In one version of the report, I think from The Guardian, it was disclosed as the victim suffered stab wounds around the genitals."

              Yes, that's what Danish media reported from the police press conference yesterday. Seemingly before she died. So "sexual assault without intercourse" description seems like the right way to describe it.

  7. DougS Silver badge

    Only 15 years?

    WTF is wrong with their laws? He planned to kill her, carried it out, desecrated her remains trying to hide his crime, and lied about it. If that's only 15 years what is rape, a couple years? Is mugging a weekend of your choice in jail and a $50 fine?

  8. hatti

    If throw away the key were ever appropriate.

  9. TonyJ Silver badge

    How awful...

    ...for her but also for her family.

    I can never (and truthfully hope to never) understand either what motivates people into such crimes to begin with but then the lies and manipulation of what they do/do not "remember" and the ongoing mental anguish that causes loved ones of the deceased is unfathomable.

  10. ukgnome Silver badge

    Nah - I still think he's innocent.

    Just a few unfortunate events, could happen to anyone really.

    Except the stabbing thing as a sexual thrill maybe, but only because I have never tried it.

  11. 0laf Silver badge

    Wow so the court didn't believe that she banged her head before dismembering herself and hopping overboard.

    He's a nasty piece of work and hopefully he won't walk the streets again.

    We're lucky he just wasn't very bright, but I wouldn't be shocked to find out he has a bad record of events of which this is just the culmination.

  12. Phukov Andigh Bronze badge

    what a f'd up situation

    this dude's story changed more times than the average polician's stories about their mistresses. Maybe he's ready to run for office now. A little "dead woman at your hands" means you "owe everything" to whomever gets you in office, too.

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