back to article No, Samsung, you really do owe Apple $120m for patent infringement

Samsung seems to have trouble accepting reality when it comes to a long-running patent spat with Apple. The US Supreme Court today declined to hear another appeal of a May 2014 verdict awarding Apple $119.6m for Samsung's alleged infringement of software patents including "quick links", Reuters reports. An eight-person jury …

  1. Mark 85 Silver badge
    Facepalm

    This has all the hallmarks of a urinating contest... but no one set the rules as to if it's "height", "distance", or "accuracy". Who knew that "rounded corners" among others could be battlefield?

  2. DougS Silver badge

    Their lawyers make more money if they drag the case out

    Why would they tell Samsung, "well, we think this is as good as you're going to do, you should pay up" when they can tell them "hey, we have a few more ideas on grounds to appeal this, so go ahead and just keep writing us those fat checks every month for the next couple years".

  3. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

    Should have racked up quite some interest by now!

  4. zbmwzm3

    About time..

    About damn time

  5. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

    Neither smartphone giant has responded to a request for comment

    Allow me.

    Apple: "We was ripped off and want our money!"

    Samsung: "We done nuffink wrong!"

  6. JassMan Silver badge
    Trollface

    But what about batteries

    Surely any gains by Apple in this case will be more than wiped out if Samsung countersues for infringement of their patent on exploding batteries.

  7. Ian Joyner Bronze badge

    Who invented what?

    I can name a whole lot of names of famous names who have worked and contributed at Apple. People who are well-known in the industry apart from Apple. Apple understood their ideas and employed them and they were happy to contribute their ideas because Apple was prepared to take the risk on what were unknown ideas at the time, even ideas that were contrary to industry-accepted wisdom.

    When it comes to Samsung, I cannot think of a single name, or really any contributions Samsung have made to computing research.

    I don't really like Microsoft or IBM, but at least I can think of names and significant contributions they have made. Google also. But Samsung a big ?.

    1. Craig 2 Silver badge
      Trollface

      Re: Who invented what?

      Be careful quoting reality as you see it as actual reality :)

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Who invented what?

      I don't really like Microsoft or IBM, but at least I can think of names and significant contributions they have made. Google also. But Samsung a big ?.

      That says a lot about your ignorance of Samsung, and almost nothing about their inventiveness.

      1. Ian Joyner Bronze badge

        Re: Who invented what?

        "That says a lot about your ignorance of Samsung, and almost nothing about their inventiveness."

        Well, fill us in. Name any famous names associated with Samsung, their contributions to furthering computing, and papers they might have published.

        1. Ian Joyner Bronze badge

          Re: Who invented what?

          "Name any famous names associated with Samsung"

          Well, still no one has risen to this challenge.

          Firstly, I'll say that I admire what Samsung does in electronics. They mostly do a good job there. But these are the components out of which devices are made. (And Samsung have had a couple of disasters there, apart from the TV I bought that broke down after a month, and the external computer monitor that developed problems after only a year.)

          But assembling electronics into devices is another complex process. For instance, we know touch screen had been around for years, but used in niche areas – it took Apple to design that into something generally useful, and touch screen became useful because of the software and UI that Apple designed. Samsung (nor the others) did not do that.

          Perhaps an electronic engineer could point to academic research that Samsung has contributed.

          But I still make the point that while I can name many people associated with Apple, Microsoft, IBM, Burroughs/Unisys who have furthered computing at one level or another, I can't think of anyone at Samsung.

          Yes, Samsung make bold claims about their R&D:

          http://www.samsung.com/us/aboutsamsung/samsung_electronics/business_area/rd_page/

          but in many ways that R&D has just been to study Apple's ideas:

          http://bgr.com/2012/08/08/apple-samsung-patent-lawsuit-internal-report-copy-iphone/

          Samsung and other companies are also using open source for their research base:

          http://ianjoyner.name/Open_Source.html

          1. Mathman

            Re: Who invented what?

            Quick Google of Samsung patents reveals they filed more US patents last year than any other company.

            http://uk.businessinsider.com/sqoop-patent-ranking-samsung-granted-more-patents-than-ibm-2016-2017-1

            1. Ian Joyner Bronze badge

              Re: Who invented what?

              "Quick Google of Samsung patents reveals they filed more US patents last year than any other company."

              And patents are more-often-than-not used to impede progress and hamper other companies that are prepared to put money into those ideas. That makes Samsung to down even further in my estimation.

          2. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

            Re: Who invented what?

            You are speaking the truth, but a lot of younger people won't understand it. They don't see the whole process, and the shambles the smartphone industry was in before Apple got in and showed how it should be done.

    3. Ian Joyner Bronze badge

      Re: Who invented what?

      Well, I guess no one can name anyone at Samsung who has made any - let alone significant - contribution to computing. Apple has long supported such people and their ideas. After several days, no response to my challenge.

      That is a big difference between Apple and Samsung.

      1. markrb

        Re: Who invented what?

        I suppose the biggest problem with your assertion is that Apple, themselves, disagree with you.

        Samsung are original developers of OLED displays. The are the largest manufacturer and, again, the only mass manufacturer of curved OLED. Since Apple have decided to integrate this - Samsung designed - technology into their devices, it would appear that Apple think highly of Samsung's technology.

        The other, not so insignificant, problems with the view of Apple as a breeding ground for innovation are as follows:

        The first GUI driven desktop operating system? Nope. Not in-house. Licensed from Xerox.

        The first ultrabook. Nope. The Sony X505 was released a couple of years before the MacBook Air and was thinner and lighter.

        The much loved OSX. Nope. Re-written on top of the Open Source operating system, BSD.

        As for the iPhone, well, most of the rest of the world laughs at the USA for having an intellectual property system that allows a company to claim that it invented the aluminium rectangular box, with rounded corners. I have seen septic tanks in that configuration, and we all know what they are full of.

        Apple can be best characterised as a company that buys in good ideas, covers them in shiny aluminium and then sells them at an exorbitant markup. I have no problem with that method of doing business, per se.

        Let's just call them what they are, though: a fashion house.

        Oh, and, by the way, it is pretty intellectually bankrupt to call people out for not providing evidence of Samsung innovation when you have provided none for Apple!

        1. Cynicalmark

          Re: Who invented what?

          Wasn’t it Eastman Kodak that actually developed OLED.? Samsung merely re-boxes technology like most giants these days, swallowing up companies in Apple-esqe style........

          1. Ian Joyner Bronze badge

            Re: Who invented what?

            Thanks. Plenty of information to back up that Kodak invented OLED, NOT Samsung.

            https://www.thoughtco.com/who-invented-oled-technology-1992208

            I disagree that Apple swallows up companies. Yes they have bought some technology where it suits what they are doing and company wants to sell.

            The real swallowers were IBM and Microsoft as a tactic more to put competition out of business. There is a difference.

        2. VicMortimer
          FAIL

          Re: Who invented what?

          You're taking a mix of truth and pure fantasy and mixing them into a tale of silliness.

          The reality is that Apple did what every other tech company did and does: Invent some stuff and borrow some stuff. They just do a very, very good job of it, better than anybody else.

          Apple released the first good GUI operating system. Xerox showed them some demos, but they hadn't actually done a few critical things, like the concept of overlapping windows. Apple guys actually thought the Alto did some stuff that it didn't do, that Xerox couldn't figure out how to do, and the Apple guys implemented it anyway. The Lisa was already in development when the Apple guys got the hour and a half demo from Xerox. And Apple shipped it in 1983, it took Microsoft until 1995 to get anywhere close, and they still did a horrible job of it.

          The Sony X505 was expensive crap. The technology wasn't ready, and they released it anyway. It was slow, and had almost no battery life. The MacBook Air was a thin machine released when the technology was up to building a thin machine, and they did it right. Sony didn't.

          And while yes, macOS runs on a BSD-ish core (it's not BSD, it's Darwin, but it's definitely BSD inspired and BSD-ish, and that core is open source, you can download it from GitHub and build it yourself if you want) macOS is NOT just Darwin. It's a complete GUI operating system, with everything working far more smoothly than, well, anything else out there. The filesystem is Apple's design, the GUI is Apple's design, the "it just works" is Apple's design. Nothing before in the history of computers has just worked like macOS.

          And while Apple isn't always the first with a technology, they're often the first to do it right. Look at the trackpad, while the PowerBook wasn't the first computer with one, it was the first with it centered in front of the keyboard, and it was the first with a truly usable trackpad, one that handles finger movements properly. Even today, Apple designs the best trackpads in the business, most PC laptops are incredibly frustrating to use with one, and many PC laptop users have to carry a mouse because their trackpads are so incredibly bad.

          That said, yes, the fight over the roundrect is stupid. Apple didn't invent the roundrect, though they were the first to implement it in an OS the way they did, back in the early '80s. But the concept of a rectangle with rounded corners being an Apple invention is silly, and they need to back off on that.

          But to call Apple a fashion house is disingenuous. Apple IS obsessed with making technology look pretty, sometimes to the point of hampering functionality these days, but they really do have some serious advantages over everything else out there as well.

          And I'm not disparaging Samsung innovation either. They've done some great work on components, their screens are great, their SSDs are good, they've done some good stuff with RAM, they do top-notch components. But they're not good at fitting it all together like Apple is.

          And every computer company out there copies Apple. Windows is and has always been a bad copy of macOS, going all the way back to Windows 1.0. Every laptop today is essentially based on the design of the PowerBook, the last time somebody tried something different it failed miserably - the IBM keyboard nipple, while still unfortunately with us on some laptops, is now always paired with a trackpad on the wrist rest. All-in-ones look like iMacs, laptops look like MacBooks (not infrequently with aluminum-painted plastic instead of machined aluminum like the MBP), and yes, phones look like iPhones, the others are even copying Apple's bad ideas like dropping the headphone jack.

          Some of it (like the headphone jack fiasco) is fashion, some of it is just that Apple gets technology right. And unlike some Apple fans, I'm good with others copying Apple. Copies of good things are a benefit to everybody.

          1. Ian Joyner Bronze badge

            Re: Who invented what?

            Good answer. I mostly agree. I'd just say that I think the round corner thing is akin to getting Al Capone on tax evasion. Sometimes the law doesn't get an offender on the obvious offence.

            https://history.howstuffworks.com/history-vs-myth/capone-tax-evasion.htm

            Some copying of Apple is good. But the case against it is that a company can take a lot of risk with a technology and have spent of lot of money developing and perfecting it as Apple has done. Then others do a really cheap copy and market it as being the same. Look at Microsoft with Windows - rushed to market in 1983 to beat Macintosh. However, in that case MS really did steal some of Apple's programming.

            It seems obvious now that Macintosh and then iPhone should have been a success. But when developing a product, you can do your best, but there is always the stress that it just will not be accepted. And yes, we could say that Apple does not leave the acceptance factor to chance either.

          2. ThePieMan

            Re: Who invented what?

            Time to remove your rose tinted spectacles fan boy?

        3. Ian Joyner Bronze badge

          Re: Who invented what?

          "The first GUI driven desktop operating system? Nope. Not in-house. Licensed from Xerox."

          You are oversimplifying history and getting it wrong. Xerox PARC developments were not understood by Xerox management. They invited IBM, Tektronix and Apple to come and have a look. IBM and Tektronix didn't get it either, but Apple did and mainly because they were already doing similar stuff. Hence some Xerox PARC technology was given to Apple to take the risk on it.

          "Apple can be best characterised as a company that buys in good ideas, covers them in shiny aluminium and then sells them at an exorbitant markup"

          As in the correct history of Apple and Xerox, Apple understands technology that others don't, take the risk to put it into products. When products succeed, it's just sour grapes from the rest.

          "Let's just call them what they are, though: a fashion house."

          Garbage.

          "Oh, and, by the way, it is pretty intellectually bankrupt to call people out for not providing evidence of Samsung innovation when you have provided none for Apple!"

          No, Apple's innovations are quite apparent for all to see, apart from completely blinded people like yourself who are in a state of denial and falsify history to make their point. That is what intellectual bankruptcy is.

        4. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

          Re: Who invented what?

          "The first GUI driven desktop operating system? Nope. Not in-house. Licensed from Xerox."

          It wasn't licensed. It was loosely copied based on what they could see at a Xerox tour. They may have poached some Xerox people later. Xerox, stupidly, went after Apple when Apple sued MS for copying Apple (at a much later stage). Xerox wasn't in the OS arena, and didn't really know what to do with it's ground breaking GUI tech.

          Xerox themselves created their system inspired by Douglas Engelbart's NLS (from 1968!).

          "The much loved OSX. Nope. Re-written on top of the Open Source operating system, BSD."

          OS X is a UNIX-type system based on Next STEP, which was indeed partly based on BSD but with a Mach OS kernel. There are many such BSD derived systems. It has had extensive changes, and the graphics subsystem is unrelated to other Unix systems.

  8. Hans Neeson-Bumpsadese Silver badge

    Slide to unlock

    I still don't get this one - I had that feature on a Nokia that I owned before the iPhone ever came to market

    1. chr0m4t1c

      Re: Slide to unlock

      Which model was that? I think I remember having it on the N97, but that was after the iPhone.

      1. Paul Hampson 1

        Re: Slide to unlock

        Apple don't invent, they innovate:

        -The Neonode N1m had slide to unlock in 2005

        - Apple didn't invent the touch screen even the capacitive touch screen (the first to really allow a finger control rather than stylus) was brought to market by LG (the Prada) before Apple.

        -Windows mobile had been around for a while and could do many of the things (and more) that the iphone was credited with inventing. And don't forget many of the reasons the iPhone was sucessful as becuase of service providers (google maps anyone?)

        -There were many tablets around before the iPad

        -There were many mp3 players before the ipod.

        Apple innovate they see a weakness in a product and buy technology that can help them create a more approachable product.

  9. Dragziy1

    Ridiculous much?

    Is apple that desperate for money that they sue for *ROUNDED CORNERS*!?? SERIOUSLY, ROUNDED FUCKING CORNERS. Talk about retarded.

  10. Cynicalmark

    Rounded corners

    When I saw the Ford cars in the 90s with rounded corners I immediately thought “ my poo comes out rounded on the corners “

    Lets see Apple and Samsung sue some poo. Or Ford come to think of it.

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