back to article For fanbois only? Face ID is turning punters off picking up an iPhone X

As Apple bloggers anxiously try to be positive about Apple's Face ID, a poll suggests potential customers may actually be repelled by the face-scanning technology. 20 per cent of respondents in a poll of over 2,000 Britons said they were less likely to upgrade to an iPhone X because of concerns with Apple's new face …

  1. Charlie Clark Silver badge
    Devil

    Smart Lock rulez

    Just thought I'd get some trolling in early. Face ID is a solution in search of a problem, Google's nudge-based approach is much better.

    1. The Man Who Fell To Earth Silver badge
      FAIL

      Re: Smart Lock rulez

      It's a great solution for Law Enforcement, at least in the States.

      The courts have ruled very consistently that police can compel you to unlock a phone or computer if it's locked using biometrics. And of course, with biometrics like face recognition, they need your cooperation even less than with a fingerprint scanner, not that the bar there is very high either.

      This is just Apple's way of putting in a backdoor for Law Enforcement without having to call it one.

      1. This post has been deleted by its author

      2. ecarlseen
        WTF?

        Wrong.

        " And of course, with biometrics like face recognition, they need your cooperation even less than with a fingerprint scanner, not that the bar there is very high either."

        Except that you have to look at the phone ("attention detection") to unlock it. If you close or avert your eyes it won't unlock. This is better than fingerprint detection, which can be accomplished with a bit of physical coercion. You can't force somebody to look forwards, and even forcing their eyes open without blocking the recognition system would be a significant challenge.

        Maybe actually do a very slight amount of reading before engaging in armchair criticism? Oh wait, I forgot, this is the Internet...

        1. This post has been deleted by its author

          1. DrBobK
            Headmaster

            Re: Wrong.

            I would have thought that pupils like pinpricks and drooping eyelids might cause the face ID some problems...

        2. herman Silver badge

          Re: Wrong.

          Now, you can not only hold it wrong, you can also smile wrong. That could be security feature though: Frown at your phone to make it lock up.

      3. AdamWill

        Re: Smart Lock rulez

        Well, you sorta disproved your own point right there. Both a "mugger" and a "law enforcement official" (to take your example and the Reg's together) would have no trouble applying your finger to a fingerprint scanner. So I'm frankly not buying this argument at all.

        Now, the argument that it's less convenient and reliable than touch id was, that seems to be a goer.

        1. Mr_Happy

          Re: Smart Lock rulez

          Which of your fingers will they use? You tend to only have one face

          1. Yet Another Commentard

            Re: Smart Lock rulez

            I guess all politicians are safe then!

      4. This post has been deleted by its author

      5. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Smart Lock rulez

        ". And of course, with biometrics like face recognition, they need your cooperation even less than with a fingerprint scanner"

        You think so?! Well good luck getting me to close my mouth / open my eyes / not grimace, etc. etc...

      6. fidodogbreath Silver badge

        Re: Smart Lock rulez

        The courts have ruled very consistently that police can compel you to unlock a phone or computer if it's locked using biometrics. [...] This is just Apple's way of putting in a backdoor for Law Enforcement without having to call it one.

        How is this argument specific to Apple? Samsung, Google, Moto, and many other devices also have fingerprint scanners, and/or more easily fooled facial recognition.

        It has been well established that biometrics are defeatable through a variety of techniques. Ditto for other convenience unlocks such as pattern match, 4-digit PINs, etc.

        No one is forcing you to use biometrics, or any other convenience login. Delete the training and turn off the feature. Problem solved.

    2. Stevie Silver badge

      Re: Face ID is a solution in search of a problem

      Nah, I reckon it's a problem in search of a phizzog.

  2. raving angry loony

    Smile?

    Great. So Apple is going from 'you're holding it wrong" to "you're bitchy resting face wrong". Or maybe they'll say "hey, you should smile. Or we won't let you use your fucking phone, bitch".

    Count me out.

    1. wallaby

      Re: Smile?

      Face facts though

      you could put a turd on a stick, pop an apple logo on it, and as long as you charge £1000 some of the fanbois will buy it

      Think of it as a tax on stupidity

  3. Chris 3
    Coat

    I think part of this may be lack of information... we'll see if that changes.

    Lots of jokes when FaceID was first launched about your partner being able to unlock your phone by holding it in front of your sleeping face etc. I've no doubt the unfamiliarity will be a barrier (TouchID was similarly a bit scary when it first launched).

    I don't have plans to get an X, and I'm not saying the system's good, however I don't think it is surprising that people are wary.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I think part of this may be lack of information... we'll see if that changes.

      Why is that a joke?

      And faceunlock is bad,. Is far less accurate with many more failed attempts, it's less secure, and 3x slower

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I feel sorry for all those pouting teenagers (more like gurning if you ask me) as they ain't never going to be able to unlock their phones.

    (Actually I lied, no I don't)

    If only they had a fingerprint scanner.

  5. BuddaBoy

    TouchID has same problem

    "anyone with the device and access to your face – such as a mugger or law enforcement official – can access you personal device. That's if you haven't entered a disabling key sequence in time."

    Same as a finger print then?

    1. WeeHeavy

      Re: TouchID has same problem

      I'll stick with an alphanumeric password I keep in my head. Though I can still be held in contempt of court for refusing to unlock the device, that's a bridge I can afford to worry about crossing some other time. This way makes it very expensive for others to unlock my phone without my help.

      Seems to me that fingerprints and facial recognition are not good ways to secure a device that is carried with the keys in plain view and easily accessed.

      1. DougS Silver badge

        Re: TouchID has same problem

        You're perfectly free to do that. The iPhone X offers Face ID, it doesn't require its use.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: TouchID has same problem

          Your post while full of common sense is like a red rag to a bull amongst the Apple naysayers who lurk here.

          It won't make any difference. You post (and this one) will garner downvotes.

        2. VinceH Silver badge
          Trollface

          Re: TouchID has same problem

          "You're perfectly free to do that. The iPhone X offers Face ID, it doesn't require its use."

          You're right - and as such (despite what the headline says), it's not the Face ID that's turning this punter off picking up a p-p-p-p-p-penguin an iPhone X.

          It's the fact that it's an iPhone.

          (Obvious troll is obvious)

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: TouchID has same problem

        No need, we have you on cctv entering your code already.

  6. cbars

    Biometrics

    Just because the phone knows *I* am there, doesn't mean it knows *I want* my phone to unlock.

    My face, my fingerprint, my DNA just identify me, they are my username, MY VOICE IS NOT MY FUCKING PASSWORD

    Something you have and... nope, that's all you need.

  7. This post has been deleted by its author

    1. Scroticus Canis Silver badge
      Headmaster

      Re: Apple Targetting Jim Henson's People.... "the Queens English"

      It's "the Queen's English", innit Shaddy me ol' china. :)

      1. This post has been deleted by its author

        1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

          Re: Apple Targetting Jim Henson's People.... "the Queens English"

          It was presumably the English of other Queens as well

  8. JimmyPage Silver badge
    FAIL

    I was using FaceId (or whatever)

    on Android in 2014. Decided it wasn't really solving anything, so lost interest.

    3 years on, I really can't see anything has changed.

    With the nod to Henry Fords dismissal of customers desires, I'd wager that if Apple asked their customers what they really wanted in the next-gen iPhone, a better removable battery, and SD slot would have been way above "FaceID".

    But they didn't, and here we are.

    1. Packet

      Re: I was using FaceId (or whatever)

      I'm willing to bet money Apple customers do NOT want an SD slot.

      Even the Android lot have gone away from it.

      It's just another form of media that can go bad / be lost anytime and take your data with it.

      Much better / simpler to send that data to a cloud provider - either vendor provided or third-party.

      1. Lee D Silver badge

        Re: I was using FaceId (or whatever)

        Because cloud vendors never "go bad / be lost anytime and take your data with it."

        Also, as an extra added bonus, they can look through your photos any time you like.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: I was using FaceId (or whatever)

        I'm going to agree with you, a SD slot would be fucking stupid, have you seen the size of the cards?

        1. Paul

          Re: I was using FaceId (or whatever)

          SD card? surely an XQD card slot would be what the professional photographers need, so that they can pop the card out of their high end Nikon into their phone to email photos?

          1. Mark 110 Silver badge

            Re: I was using FaceId (or whatever)

            Expandable memory iis very very sensible. Not essential. But sensible.

            It means the base price of the phone doesn't need to accomodate the memory requirements of all users. I for example carry 100Gb of music around on my phone. So I stick a big SD card in to hold that music. My girlfriend who has the same model doesn't so she doesn't.

            As for holding that stufff in the cloud. Not much good if you are on a train in the UK and can't listen to anything because theres no mobile connectivity for at least 50% of your journey (and don't f'ing get me started on the supposedly wonderful train WiFi).

            1. Seajay#

              Re: I was using FaceId (or whatever)

              I'm sure that part of the reason why phone makers stopped allowing expandable storage is that it allows them to do market segmentation. Two different models of the phone with different amounts of storage and a price differential that's noticeably bigger than could be justified by the cost of the storage.

              1. Blank Reg Silver badge

                Re: I was using FaceId (or whatever)

                Yes, and none of that has anything to do with making things better for the customer, which of course is never part of the equation at Apple.

          2. katrinab Silver badge

            Re: I was using FaceId (or whatever)

            You can get a lightning adapter to do that. Only works with photos though, not anything else you might want to transfer to your phone.

          3. Craig100

            Re: I was using FaceId (or whatever)

            Don't those "hi end" Nikons have wifi?

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: I was using FaceId (or whatever)

        10 downvotes for a post full of common sense.

        but it won't.

        Pity.

        Still, there are the issues of the non removable battery and the headphone jack that they can beat Apple over the head with.

      4. fruitoftheloon
        WTF?

        @Packet: Re: I was using FaceId (or whatever)

        Packet,

        are you having a laugh or just not terribly bright???

        I mean, having quite a few GB of music stored (inaccessibly) in the cloud out here in the countryside just makes so much more sense than HAVING IT IN THE F'ING PHONE, doesn't it now?

        Has it ever occurred to you that some folk may have different reqs to you, e.g. I f'ing hate touchscreens, so guess what - my phone has a keyboard!?

        Cheers,

        Jay

  9. Fred the Dancing Wonder Pig

    Well, actually it works quite well...

    The entire setup was better than any device I've ever seen - seriously. Attention to detail and simplicity set a new bar.

    FaceIDs brilliant and haven't *yet* had an issue with it and by default, it doesn't unlock if you're not awake/attentive unless you deliberately disable it.

    queue morons who disable it and then lament about partners/"friends"/criminals stealing their details

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Well, actually it works quite well...

      cue morons....

      Sorry, couldn't resist.

    2. hplasm Silver badge
      Devil

      Re: Well, actually it works quite well...

      "queue morons"

      The ones who queue up to buy the things?

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Real data?

    So, this is a survey of people who don't have it and haven't used it?

    Will be more interested to see a survey of 10,000 people after they have used it for a few months.

    1. 100113.1537

      Re: Real data?

      After they have forked out a grand to buy it do you really think they will say it sucks?

    2. CanadianMacFan

      Re: Real data?

      Since it was asking potential customers whether Face ID would impact their purchasing decision I'm guessing that they don't have the phone yet. /s

      I won't be buying it, or any phone, that has Face ID. Not because of the stuff that has been mentioned about the police and other people making you unlock your phone. I live in a place where a third of the year it's cold enough that my face needs to be protected from the cold when I go out. Unless I'm staying in a store for a while I stay wrapped up even on the bus. With using my fingerprint I can easily unlock my phone in the cold with just taking my glove off. I'll be damned if I have to uncover my face for anything that needs an ID.

      I know that I can enter the password but then what's the use of having something of to save me from entering the password when I can't use it all of the time like I could with the fingerprint ID?

      1. Captain DaFt

        Re: Real data?

        I know that I can enter the password but then what's the use of having something of to save me from entering the password when I can't use it all of the time like I could with the fingerprint ID?

        But the face ID doesn't require extra hardware to work like fingerprint ID. It's all just done in software.

        Apple's stance seems to be "if it can be done in software, screw the hardware! Hardware costs real money! Not just in the costs of the parts, but the costs to design, test and implement.

        It's why they've ditched the keyboard, buttons, ports and jacks.

        it's also why the battery is sealed in, one less part to design and integrate. (The battery cover)

        Just think of how much money they save per year on the phones ditching every conceivable part they can do away with!

        It's why every other phone maker emulates Apple, "How much can we save this year copying them?"

        Apple's genius here is spinning cost saving measures as "trendy and hip" features to the consumer.

        1. Hyper72

          Re: Real data?

          Well, Captain DaFt; FaceID requires an infrared camera and a dot projector that projects 30000 dots onto your face to create a 3D model (even in the dark) which is the handed over to a dual-core Neural engine and the authenticating secure enclave hardware that ensures the biometric data itself isn't leaked to the cloud, only authenticating tokens.

          So, it does require extra hardware. Quite a lot.

          Does it work well? I don't know, I haven't tried one, probably never will, let's see what people say after a few months. There was plenty of uproar when it was discovered by the chaos computer club that Touch ID could be bypassed using a time demanding process and sophisticated equipment.

          I would suggest using bio-metrics for the average use case, just like we use key for our front door, but stick with a complex passphrase if afraid of the NSA/FBI/KGB/etc.

          1. Davegoody

            Re: Real data?

            Well.....

            I got mine on launch-day and FaceID was very good from the start. It has actually got better, works when I wear glasses or sunglasses and to be honest, if somebody takes it from me, then it's lost and I will be able to remotely disable it. Three attempts to unlock it with the wrong face and it's password only anyway. Much argument about absolutely nothing.

            1. Deltics

              Works with sunglasses but not with eyes closed ... ?

              Please explain ?

              And if this is true, doesn't this provide the answer to any law enforcement official faced with a non-compliant target who refuses to open their eyes in front of their device: Simply cuff 'em and slap some sunnies on. Done.

    3. Truckle The Uncivil

      Re: Real data?

      ‘So, this is a survey of people who don't have it and haven't used it?

      Will be more interested to see a survey of 10,000 people after they have used it for a few months.”

      How the hell did you not get down voted to oblivion? You said something sensible about an Appleproduct. That is a mortal sin normally.

  11. Voland's right hand Silver badge

    Face Id is probably the lamest app for the tech in use

    The tech in use is the original Kinect. That has plenty of potential use for other stuff and face Id is probably the lamest possible use case for a kinect like system

  12. hughgrection

    It is interesting how afraid people are of law enforcement these days. My first fear is hardly ever thieves or muggers but rather a hostile government on a fishing trip.

    1. unwarranted triumphalism Bronze badge

      Well if you've got something to hide...

      1. Truckle The Uncivil

        Everyone has something to hide. But most of it isn’t illegal

  13. The Nazz Silver badge

    Unhappy

    I can't see the ex being happy with this.

    Remind me again, how easily does the screen crack?

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Going forward, Every Police Mug shot camera will be made by Apple, with lc link to suspect's phone.

    Chilling. The same tech will be added to Police Mug shot cameras, these will also be manufactured and sold by Apple - with a lightning cable connector to the suspect's iPhone.

    The UK's electronic passport control will likely add the Apple facial recognition tech to every UK Border control, aswell as the camera booths used at Post Offices for Driving Licence/Passport applications. Unlocking your phone at the Border could be a fairly automatic process.

    1. Blank Reg Silver badge

      Re: Going forward, Every Police Mug shot camera will be made by Apple...

      Nope, the requirements for unlocking a phone and for finding bad guys are inverted.

      To unlock a phone, you're ok with some false negatives as long as there aren't false positives. For finding bad guys you're ok with some false positives as long as there are no (or as few as possible) false negatives.

      There are already plenty of companies with such tech, no need for Apple at all.

  15. arthoss

    Thought about it

    How to us it in a safe manner - face ID. Put a finger on your face when you set it up, problem solved, no one will be able to use your face.

    1. Not also known as SC Silver badge

      Re: Thought about it

      So you need to adopt a Dr Evil pose every time you unlock it?

    2. 2Senile wasme

      Re: Thought about it

      Dammit. until you posted I loved people using face ID (or fingers). They last ages in the fridge. If they bring in retina ID I'd only be able to use other peoples eyes for hours with my criminal activities.

  16. unwarranted triumphalism Bronze badge

    It's always wrong if Apple do it.

    1. Tony Paulazzo

      It's always wrong if Apple do it.

      No, it's always late when Apple do it. Copy / Paste, notifications etc. In fact the only original thing Apple ever did was take away the SD slot and charge an extra hundred for minimal storage upgrades. They didn't invent touch screen, rounded corners, slide to unlock etc etc etc...

      1. Blank Reg Silver badge

        There is one thing that they did do first, and it made all the difference.

        With the original iPhone you were required to take a data plan. It's not that the iPhone did anything you couldn't do on a feature phone, in fact it was missing some stuff. It's just that most people didn't bother even though the apps were there because they didn't have a data plan.

  17. Milton Silver badge

    Adults vs Fanbois ... again

    It seems that those who are reasonably technically literate, especially with any exposure to security issues, understood very early on that face recognition was a clever gimmick answering to the by-now-classic definition of a "solution in search of a problem". Like so much internet-related BS, a daft idea—whether it's a connected kettle, fruit juicer, Bluetooth front door lock—produces something which is not only unnecessary, it's actually worse than what preceded it.

    I won't rehearse at length the reasons why, because if you fall into the adults category, you know that a brain-stored 10+ alphanumeric character mixed case password, implemented in a device that (a) stores it securely, and (b) denies repeated fast brute forcing, is essentially uncrackable within the lifetime of the universe. Whereas leaving your fingerprints on every shiny surface you touch is unwise, keeping your password written on the ends of your fingers is daft, and crayoning it on your face is even stupider.

    But neither science nor logic are of interest to Apple's marketurds, and, worse still, they also don't signify with the status-obsessed lemmings who are paying eyewatering sums for iPhone X ( people whose main concern, having acquired an X, is now to find anything made by Abercrombie that features a special "iPhone X pocket" to go beneath the huge, garish "Look everyone I pissed cash at A&F!!" logo).

    In short, the iPhone is marketed as a status symbol, not on the basis of function or value—and for that reason, it will sell well to those who desperately want status, and fondly imagine this is the way to "get" it. Evidence-based, logical assessment doesn't stand a chance against gormless sentiment.

    1. Truckle The Uncivil

      Re: Adults vs Fanbois ... again

      @Milton

      Yes but who are the fanboys and who are the adults?

      “Evidence-based, logical assessment doesn't stand a chance against gormless sentiment.“

      Correct as evidenced but fact that Apple gives you EXACTLY what YOU asked for. A pin code. No one forces you to use any other means.

      Given that, you are neither evidenced based nor logical. Apple gives you exactly what you ask for and it still is not enough?

      So, fanboy, you can keep your gormless diatribe based on sentiment not fact.

      I will be downrated to buggery, but your rant is literally insane. The iPhone (x or otherwise) gives you what you asked for

      1. Naselus Silver badge

        Re: Adults vs Fanbois ... again

        The point is more that FaceID (along with fingerprint scanning) does not replace a password. It replaces a username. To unlock ought to require something you have (username, fingerprint, face scan, bank card, whatever) and then still ask for something you know (password, pin number). This is security 101, and literally all phone manufacturers (not just Apple) are no longer bothering to enforce it.

        1. Davidcrockett

          Re: Adults vs Fanbois ... again

          But this approach would be incredibly cumbersome for a device that's unlocked many, many times a day. There's a huge difference between ideal and good enough security. Fingerprint or face unlocking is a good ballance between ease of use and security for most people - the most likely scenario for a badass trying to break into their phone is after losing it or having it stolen, not someone doing a Demolition Man on their finger or face.

      2. Someone Else Silver badge
        FAIL

        @Truckle The Uncivil -- Re: Adults vs Fanbois ... again

        No, Truckle, it doesn't "give me just what I asked for" If it did, I'd have bought one.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Adults vs Fanbois ... again

      Meanwhile in the real world people want to actually unlock their phones quickly and, given the opportunity, they'd disable any security rather than use a long, complex passcode everytime they want to check Facebook. Personally I'm not an Apple fan, but the fact that my Mum can operate her iThings without calling me every 5 minutes (as she does for everything else electronic) proves they're doing something right.

  18. Kevin McMurtrie Silver badge

    Worse than no headphone jack?

    Facial recognition problems seem tiny compared to having only a single connector. I still don't know how those phones sell.

    1. fidodogbreath Silver badge

      Re: Worse than no headphone jack?

      I still don't know how those phones sell.

      The same way that Pixel 2s (also with no headphone jack) sell: briskly, as it turns out.

  19. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Well, you heard it here first

    We didn't need a poll to work this one out, some of us got there *way* before.

    The thing is, Apple only has itself to blame here. If they had just put it in and raved about the technical detail it probably would have been fine and considered innovative and all these other words the marketing people drool over.

    But no, they had to put in something that would use what is arguably quite a leap in facial recognition technology*, and the best they could come up with was a way to animate emojis. Honestly? If I were part of that team I would have suggested that leaving that out would be better until you had a real deep use for it later, because this reduced this new tech to toy/gimmick/solution-without-problem status.

    I am disappointed that nobody involved in this from idea to implementation ever stopped to think if this was really the impression they wanted to give because I would have asked questions.

    Stupid, really stupid. I was interested in the X, but after seeing that demo I decided that I was better off with an 8 as an upgrade to my 6 so I've drawn a great, well, "X" through the other one..

    * If it worked, which is one of the reasons I always hold off on buying new ideas in hardware for a couple of months - also saves hours queueing like a moron.

  20. Someone Else Silver badge

    Face recognition...what could possibly go wrong...go wrong...go wrong...go....

  21. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Down

    £1,149.00

    That's what's stopping me. Face ID a distant second.

    1. Seajay#

      Re: £1,149.00

      I think that's what's stopping everyone, they just don't want to look cheap so they blame something else.

  22. DerekCurrie
    Holmes

    How about REAL Two-Factor Authentication Apple! How about Three-Factor!

    I'm still no fan of any of Apple's user authentication systems. It's certainly a step forward to have situations that require a second method of authentication. But Apple still does not offer the option of requiring REAL Two-Factor, or Three-Factor Authentication at all times. It's dirt simple to setup! Just require a password, 'Something You Know', as well as Face ID, 'Something You Are'. I'd gladly thank Apple for adding the third authentication method as well, 'Something You Have', that commonly being a digital dongle with a one-time password provided to the device.

    IOW: YES! It is clearly a disadvantage to one's US privacy rights (Fourth Amendment) and rights to not incriminate one's self (Fifth Amendment) by making it as easy as applying one's finger or showing one's face to an iOS device.

    It is FAR more secure to instead have an un-obvious password within one's head, while exercising one's right to silence, if one does not want another person entering the realm of one's smartphone.

    IOW: It's the usual balance/teeter-tauter of Convenience Vs Security. Take your pick. Maybe turn off the Touch ID, turn off the Face ID and stick to just an obscure password, until such time as Apple offers REAL Multi-Factor Authentication as an option.

    We wait...

  23. Michael Habel Silver badge

    What about those with optical defefficiencies?

    Assuming this Face Scan is anything like Google's / Samsung Face Scan unlock that can't do sh-- when I have my Glasses on...

  24. Timmy B Silver badge
    Trollface

    You can always....

    ... turn face id off and have a pass code. If you're some kind of security obsessed luddite.

    1. wallaby

      Re: You can always....

      "turn face id off and have a pass code. If you're some kind of security obsessed luddite"

      Then why the hell pay over £1k for something and not use all its features esp when some of those very features are responsible for the ludicrous price tag (that and profiteering from people who will pay anything for a badge)???

      Beggars belief

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: You can always....

        Then why the hell pay over £1k for something and not use all its features esp when some of those very features are responsible for the ludicrous price tag (that and profiteering from people who will pay anything for a badge)???

        There's a lot more to an iPhone than just the gadgets (and I won't buy the X exactly because the extra costs are not justified by usable features). We use iPhones because they're very easy to secure to a point that even a security luddite (aka "management") can be trusted to be safe with scant instruction. THAT is the value we pay for.

        Personally I wouldn't miss the whole TouchID thing, the only way I'd use that is if I could use it in combination with a then somewhat shorter PIN because it's not a spectacularly good FP reader (I've been in biometrics for years, and I know FP readers that are far harder to fool - but they cost accordingly).

      2. Timmy B Silver badge

        Re: You can always....

        @wallaby

        "Beggars belief"....

        I figured the troll face kind of showed my thoughts.... I must have literally hundreds of things I'd rather pay a grand for than a phone. Particularly one where you pay extra for features that don't work properly.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: You can always....

      If you're some kind of security obsessed luddite.

      I am, and I have (well, Touch ID). I have client confidentiality to protect, so my phone's on a password (a 6 digit PIN is too easy to shoulder surf) and is set up in such a way that I can nuke client details in seconds if I am heading for a border I don't trust, like the US, Chinese or Russian one.

      It's not just all about the user itself, you see.

  25. Anonymous Coward
    Unhappy

    Wouldn't happen with Touch ID

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/techandgadgets/man-unlocks-his-brothers-iphone-x-using-face-id-a3677116.html

  26. Chuunen Baka

    Single user

    The one thing that I've got out of folk talking about face id is that you can register more than one finger print on the old iphone. I didn't know that people used this feature to share phones with partners etc. Anyway, that's not possible with your new super expensive phone.

  27. Stevie Silver badge

    Bah!

    So even if Da Perpz won't co-operate, all the police have to do is take some footage, snap out a frame of face, print out at full size and make a quick mask for the intern to wear as they Defend Freedom.

    I knew that episode of Columbo would come back to haunt us.

  28. Stevie Silver badge

    Bah!

    Also: Woken up at three in the morning by Tech Support, but can't answer phone because in-bed sleepface won't match washed-n-brushed login face. What a colossal balls-haaaaaangon a minute ...

    I declare this phone great!

  29. fidodogbreath Silver badge
    WTF?

    What about "optional" do you people not understand?

    You are NOT REQUIRED to use Face ID (or Touch ID) at all. It has an off switch. You don't even have to train it.

    If it doesn't work for some reason, you can still unlock the device with a PIN or password -- which you have to set up before you can even enable and train the biometric.

    On restart, the biometric login is disabled until the password or PIN has been entered.

    Apple stores all of the credentials -- bio and otherwise -- in an encrypted secure enclave, and said data never leaves the device.

    This stuff is all well documented. Read more, harrumph less.

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