back to article Windows 10 Fall Creators Update tackles IT's true menace: Cheating gamers

Microsoft's latest major Windows 10 release prides itself on keeping out those who want to meddle with your code, be they malicious hackers or lazy gamers looking for an easy leg up. The new protections will be targeted both at Enterprise customers and Home and small business users. The Redmond software titan has outlined a …

  1. Dazed and Confused

    W10 fall edition tackles IT's true menace: UPTIME

    The new updates seem to cause my PCs to reboot so damn often it's difficult to get any work done. Bill Gates famously boasted at the W2K launch that some of their systems had been up for 80 days. Well there is bugger all chance of that now a'days.

    What I want to know is whether MS will agree to pay all my excuse usage charges for downloading tons of stuff at expensive times of day rather than letting me schedule the downloads to a time when I'm not too busy working and can move the damn things to a different network connection.

    1. big_D Silver badge

      Re: W10 fall edition tackles IT's true menace: UPTIME

      Not seen any reboots yet on my PCs...

      1. Tigra 07 Silver badge
        Linux

        Re: W10 fall edition tackles IT's true menace: UPTIME

        Me neither...Ubuntu 16.04...

      2. Missing Semicolon

        Re: W10 fall edition tackles IT's true menace: UPTIME

        You must not be in front of it when it happens.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: W10 fall edition tackles IT's true menace: UPTIME

        No reboots here either...

      4. katrinab Silver badge

        Re: W10 fall edition tackles IT's true menace: UPTIME

        "Not seen any reboots yet on my PCs..."

        Well the last reboot on my FreeBSD system was the reboot required after installing it.

        1. Hans 1 Silver badge

          Re: W10 fall edition tackles IT's true menace: UPTIME

          Well the last reboot on my FreeBSD system was the reboot required after installing it.

          Crikey, are you sure, I mean, is your ancestor who installed it back in the 90's still around ... like, 9000+ days uptime ? Not uncommon ...

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Thumb Up

      Re: W10 fall edition tackles IT's true menace: UPTIME

      If your computer’s down, it can’t be hacked. Fact*

      (* apart from via the insecure web server running at ring -1 in the CPU. Oh, and the embedded Linux instance listening out for AT commands and more in the Broadcom chip.)

    3. kain preacher Silver badge

      Re: W10 fall edition tackles IT's true menace: UPTIME

      Um use metered connection setting.

      1. Dazed and Confused

        Re: W10 fall edition tackles IT's true menace: UPTIME

        Well I would do, but they seem to have gone away. I've tried following the instructions to get to them and the buttons just don't exist. Hence the mega-pissed offness.

        1. Dazed and Confused

          Re: W10 fall edition tackles IT's true menace: UPTIME

          Well this evening it rebooted again and no sooner had it come up but it flashed up that damn message in the bottom right hand corner saying it needed to reboot again to finish loading updates. OK this time I manually rebooted. Total uptime this time around? probably less than 1 minute.

          Now I'm really happy for those people who aren't getting constant reboots. Maybe MS haven't got around to you yet. Maybe you're doing something different to me. I just want this pile of **** to work when I need it and at the moment it doesn't.

        2. Dazed and Confused

          Re: W10 fall edition tackles IT's true menace: UPTIME

          > Well I would do, but they seem to have gone away. ...

          Seems at least 2 people don't believe me.

          Where would you like me to post the screen shots to show you that I don't have the options to tell this stupid thing that it's a metered connection.

          I know I'm supposed to be able to go to start->settings->network & Internet->Ethernet and the setting is supposed to be down here.

          Well it isn't.

          1. royprime

            Re: W10 fall edition tackles IT's true menace: UPTIME

            Probably teaching you to suck eggs. But have you clicked on the Ethernet connection and then you should have the button in there (is in mine, latest W10 Pro).

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Cheaters will cheat as Crackers will crack

    ........"Microsoft notes that the end users have to turn on game monitoring in order for the features to work, but developers will also have the option to quit out or disable features on the game should users not have monitoring enabled. Developers can then make decisions around which experiences are allowed from within their games,"........

    This is more Trusted-Computing-model by the back door than actually helping Game Designers. Its likely to screw-up and bork games knowing Microsoft's past form.... And yes as a game designer I do care, but there are other solutions (examples below)...

    https://forums.unrealengine.com/community/general-discussion/1364038-anti-cheat-hack-services

    https://forums.unrealengine.com/unreal-engine/marketplace/69015-plugin-anti-cheat-system

    1. Tom 64

      Re: Cheaters will cheat as Crackers will crack

      >"Its likely to screw-up and bork games".

      This.

      Games dev's wont be too hasty jumping on-board with this particular feature. Who wants more Microsoft lock-in?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Cheaters will cheat as Crackers will crack

        Another attempt to coerce games to ship as universal apps confined to the Microsoft store? They never give up on lock in.

        1. Captain Scarlet Silver badge

          Re: Cheaters will cheat as Crackers will crack

          "They never give up on lock in."

          They never have much luck with them either, from the MSN Games Zone to Live Games or whetever the stupid top bar thingie was called has failed and been ditched.

        2. MJI Silver badge

          Re: Cheaters will cheat as Crackers will crack

          The thing is when it comes to games people go to proper sites like Steam or battle.net

        3. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Cheaters will cheat as Crackers will crack

          They want their own walled garden, their own 'ecosystem'. It's where the money is. SatNad no longer believes in selling new boxes/licenses of Windows and Office to earn revenue.

          Case in point: the new Age of Empires strategy game (published by Microsoft), is a Windows Store exclusive. To play it, you have to get a Microsoft account, go into the Store and download/install it.

          Microsoft also desperately covets Steam's position as the de facto gatekeeper of distributing online games.

          Personally, I can't wait for the day when an OS (ReactOS?) can run all legacy win32 stuff natively and flawlessly. That's the day when Windows can be dumped for good.

          1. Charles 9 Silver badge

            Re: Cheaters will cheat as Crackers will crack

            "Personally, I can't wait for the day when an OS (ReactOS?) can run all legacy win32 stuff natively and flawlessly. That's the day when Windows can be dumped for good."

            Two problems.

            1. ReactOS isn't even out of the alpha phase. I don't think it can do a reasonable facsimile of Win2K yet, let alone Win7x64 which is pretty much the baseline these days.

            2. Windows is a moving target, and Microsoft has the home field advantage. Even as ReactOS moves ahead (or tries), Windows keeps moving farther away.

    2. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Facepalm

      Re: Cheaters will cheat as Crackers will crack

      Ugh, they're going to leverage this new gamer API in order to *FORCE* games to *REQUIRE* win-10-nic.

      Thanks, micro-shaft, for yet ANOTHER compatibility problem.

      I won't be installing Win-10-nic just to play a game. The game devs should realize that and target 7 instead.

      Icon for the facepalm I just did.

      1. MJI Silver badge

        Re: Cheaters will cheat as Crackers will crack

        Most PC games are on Windows 7 as that is where the market is. Even XP is still supported with older games.

        The major games market place will also let you know if compatible.

        PC games come from sites like Steam.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Cheaters will cheat as Crackers will crack

          "Most PC games are on Windows 7 as that is where the market is"

          Nope - majority of Steam users are now on Windows 10...

          1. Sandtitz Silver badge
            Mushroom

            Re: Cheaters will cheat as Crackers will crack

            "Nope - majority of Steam users are now on Windows 10..."

            Now, now, we don't want accurate information here, especially Steam statistics. That's a paddling downvote, it seems...

            Also, whatever you do, don't mention how the Linux/MacOS share seems to be dwindling.

            1. MJI Silver badge

              Re: Cheaters will cheat as Crackers will crack

              Close though.

              Last time I looked it was still 7.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Cheaters will cheat as Crackers will crack

        "Ugh, they're going to leverage this new gamer API in order to *FORCE* games to *REQUIRE* win-10-nic."

        They already do if you want decent GFX performance via DirectX 12...

      3. MJI Silver badge

        Re: Cheaters will cheat as Crackers will crack

        What is Windows 10 to do with network interface card?

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Games is a key Win10 priority? Smells of desperation...

    ... Its worth revisiting this other Reg piece in light of everything ...

    ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~

    https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/10/19/ge_apple_move_impact_microsoft_analysis/

    ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

    "Looking through the Windows

    Now let’s remind ourselves what’s been happening in Windows-land. When Windows became “a service” it became a perpetual beta, in which the end users are guinea pigs. Like clearing the minefield with livestock – it’s a messy way to do things.

    Nadella outlines his vision on AR, quantum computing etc at Microsoft event...First there came the ultra-aggressive GWX upgrade programme, which force-fed code, bypassing the IT department’s sysadmins. That’s not enterprise-friendly.

    Have a look at the features added to Windows 10 in recent releases. In the spring, Windows 10 got a new Games Mode, with beam-streaming from a new Game Bar, and Paint 3D. And in the new one: Story Remix, and Mixed Reality. None of this screams enterprise, particularly."

    It’s really been a story of features arriving late or half-baked. The People Hub was tested last year and is still unfinished. Another promising feature like Continuum that the company launches then neglects – as HP Inc. found to its cost. HP bet big on Continuum with an impressive effort, only for Microsoft to push back the improvements it desperately needed in the Continuum portion. Since then Samsung and even Huawei have built Continuum-like features into their Android phones.

    And this is probably the clincher for enterprises looking for alternatives to Windows. They like stability. And along with stability, they need clarity.

    As Michael Allison points out here, Microsoft rarely announces the “Death” of anything – it either buries the news or pretends it never happened. In April Microsoft strenuously denied it was de-prioritising the Mobile branch of Windows 10, only to confirm those reports in a podcast weeks later. Is Windows 10 Mobile dead or alive, or merely in purgatory, awaiting a rebranding next year?

    Is UWP dead or alive? Who knows?"

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: MS or Apple?

      so GE is reporting that Apple kit costs less to support than Windows. IBM did the same didn't they?

      Will we see a shift from the Nighmare on Redmond St to the Apple Walled Garden in the business world?

      somehow I doubt it and given the sometimes downright loathing of anything that Apple does amongst some IT Professionals I'm sure that there will be quotes like 'They will have to prize my W10 system from my cold dead hands before I use anything from Apple'.

      So we let MS Basically fuck around with us. They do seem to be making things harder for us to do (instead of easier) and their (MS) reaction is "but people Mummy MS knows best so go and sit on the naughty step until you see sense. Besides, we gave you Linux (sort of) so what more do you want? Don't say get rid of the tiles or the ribbon because that is never going to happen. We know more about what you want so don't ask again."

      Oh well, back to the day job. The wall behind my desk has quite a hole in it now since W10 got rolled out. At least at home, I can leave Windows far, far behind. Roll on 4:30pmv and TTFIF (harder than TGIF)

    2. TheVogon Silver badge

      Re: Games is a key Win10 priority? Smells of desperation...

      "Now let’s remind ourselves what’s been happening in Windows-land. When Windows became “a service” it became a perpetual beta, in which the end users are guinea pigs."

      The RTM of Windows 10 was indeed pretty crappy because they rushed it out of the door.

      However, the major updates since then (if you wait for them to be applied via default update settings and don't install them early yourself) have actually been pretty good by the time they hit your PC!

      It's only a perpetual beta if you choose to enable early access to builds.

      1. Hans 1 Silver badge

        Re: Games is a key Win10 priority? Smells of desperation...

        It's only a perpetual beta if you choose to enable early access to builds.

        It's only a perpetual ALPHA if you choose to enable early access to builds.

        TFTFY. Beta testers are the non-enterprise users, have you not heard of the forced Windows Updates ?

  4. kryptylomese

    So basically Microsoft are making their gaming platform (Windows 10) much more console like, when one of the great benefits of the gaming on the PC is that games could be modded.

    This is just going to end up a game of cat and mouse because modder's will modify the Windows protection modules so that games can still be modded.

    1. Dan 55 Silver badge

      So basically Microsoft are making their gaming platform (Windows 10) much more console like, when one of the great benefits of the gaming on the PC is that games could be modded.

      They're not doing too well at it. Their Minecraft Better Together update, sold as a way of playing Minecraft online across different previously-incompatible platforms, also changes the UI on the console versions to match the PC's. It's now impossible to play on console.

      Remember that horrendous UI mistake they made with mobile and PC? They're now now making the same mistake with console and PC.

      1. Paul Shirley

        Xbox is the only platform that horrible ui works, mainly because using an Xbox game controller makes anything else unusable!

  5. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge

    Windows 10 Fall

    Every time I see that I just can't help reading it as "Windows 10 Fail" and wondering "what now?"

    1. Dan 55 Silver badge

      Re: Windows 10 Fall

      Another OS of course.

      1. Will Godfrey Silver badge
        Thumb Up

        Re: Windows 10 Fall

        @ Phill

        Exactly my thought!

    2. Ian Emery Silver badge
      Coat

      Re: Windows 10 Fall

      My reading of it as well, but I didnt even think of posting on here, as I assumed at least 1 million people would have beaten me to it.

      I HAVE posted it as "is it a small "l" or a capital "I", on a couple of game forums.

      The guy with the personalised coat - made in China with "LAN" stitched on the name badge.

  6. Korev Silver badge

    open to abuse?

    Computer games companies and other media companies have record of doing bad things to your PC to "protect" their products. I wonder if (when) this will be abused?

    1. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Unhappy

      Re: open to abuse?

      too late, remember the Sony Media CD ROM thing? It caused CD ROM drives to stop working properly, after listening to a single audio CD with the "virus" equipped on it. Very embarrassing for them.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_copy_protection_rootkit_scandal

      1. MJI Silver badge

        Re: open to abuse?

        BMG a Sony owned US company off its own back rather than Sony the Japanese electronics company.

        They did a lot of harm to peoples PCs and the parent companies name.

      2. Korev Silver badge

        Re: open to abuse?

        That was one of the examples that I had in mind when I posted; sadly there are many more

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I don't use Windows 10 but I hate it

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      I use Windows 10, and I love it.

      Disclaimer: I work for Microsoft, and get paid per comment.

      1. TheVogon Silver badge

        Do tell me more? They owe me a fortune ;-)

        1. Hans 1 Silver badge
          Thumb Up

          @TheVogon

          Do tell me more? They owe me a fortune ;-)

          There I was, thinking you were getting filthy rich, you should contact their PR!!!!

    2. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge

      I don't use Windows 10 but I hate it

      I do use Windows 10, and hate it more every day,

      1. Anguilla

        I do use Windows 10, and hate it more every day.

        Phil O'Sophical wrote:

        "I don't use Windows 10 but I hate it

        I do use Windows 10, and hate it more every day."

        =================================================

        I *could* live with it - but the recent forced "upgrades" have caused ALL my Win 10 Laptops & Desktop to fail to connect to the Internet !!!

        On examination - I get "Windows couldn't automatically bind this IP protocol stack to the network" !!

        Sod Microsquelch !!

        Seems like I'll be forced to re-install Win 10 yet again & ensure that it does NOT "upgrade" again.

        How can I do that??

  8. m-k

    Windows Windows Defender

    seriously?

    ...

    well, given the previous track record of goode olde MS...

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Windows Windows Defender

      I'd rather have Windows Defender Defender

  9. PapaD

    Why would game companies even care

    About you cheating whilst playing their game.

    Unless its an MMO, once you've bought it, surely its irrelevant to them how you play it - they've already got your money.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Why would game companies even care

      Well, what about the games that sell add-ons? You know, where only those who are willing to pay the most will win. They're the real cheats (the studio or gamer, take your pick).

      Anyway, sometimes creating the mods is the game.

      They should allow mods and cheats - but flag the person up as doing so, so the "honest" players know. Let the modders play amongst each other.

      But, being open and accepting isn't one of Microsoft's qualities.

    2. Charles 9 Silver badge

      Re: Why would game companies even care

      No, because if cheaters go online, they make things miserable for everyone else, meaning the publisher gets bad rep and loses sales, affecting their bottom line. Valve had a good reason to introduce Valve Anti-Cheat, for example.

  10. Paul Shirley

    install fun

    I'd like to think some of this protection stuff is what kicked in and stopped the updater actually erasing my entire boot drive without warning. In fact it was a fortuitous bug that stopped it rebooting after wiping just the partition table. Microsoft, where only catastrophic bugs can save you from catastrophic intended behavior.

    1. Terry 6 Silver badge
      FAIL

      Re: install fun

      On one of my home PCs. my shiny new i7 SSD laptop, the Fail update did fail. Seemed to partly install, with elements of the new version present then went into a perpetual "ready to install" state. None of the remove installation and try again routes worked. So I went back to the previous Creationist version. And WU now tells me that no update is available. Which, to be honest, doesn't make the slightest difference to me. Especially since they still haven't fixed the custom recycle bin icon bug . If they can't fix details like that, over so many years, I have no expectations they'll ever get anything right.

      1. Tigra 07 Silver badge

        Re: install fun

        There's still a funny bug with the Homegroup icon randomly appearing on desktops and then pissing off and reappearing in future.

        Never used homegroup, no idea why it creates perpetual desktop icons, and Microsoft has never fixed this.

      2. TheVogon Silver badge

        Re: install fun

        " Fail update did fail."

        If you want to fix that to a fully consistent version, best way is an "in place install" via the "media creation tool"...

  11. Packet

    I often wonder...

    I often wonder about the effect of politics / power plays at MS on product features /changes

    (Love "Nighmare on Redmond St - will use that in conversation from now on...)

    Is it a case of an over-zealous project program manager - or are there some old sticks-in-the-mud who out of seniority / legacy refuse to change how they do things.

    Or is it a case of vague strategy with buzzwords without any details on how to get there - resulting in nobody leading at all - leaving the various groups/teams/one-dominant-fellow to interpret as they best see fit. And bugger anyone who disagrees with them - which in turn, leads to things like Win 8.x+ TIFKAM (which on a server platform, is so horribly ugly, that for the first time, I can not refer to ugly GUI's in *nix)

    Just what makes them tick to do what they do - which results in this incomplete product that we then endure.

    My current pet peeve is around Excel windows that refuse to stay in the same place (open up 3 spreadsheets, and they all seem to cascade hap-hazardly even after being arranging them countless times one behind the other)

    Just some random thoughts before gin o' clock...

    1. TheVogon Silver badge

      Re: I often wonder...

      "Win 8.x+ TIFKAM (which on a server platform, is so horribly ugly, that for the first time, I can not refer to ugly GUI's in *nix)"

      Why would you need it on a server? There is no GUI by default and all the GUI management tools can be enabled to run remotely...

      1. Packet

        Re: I often wonder...

        Logged into a default install of 2012R2 from the IT dept - it has the GUI - not the core piece.

        The developer who I was helping couldn't figure out where everything/anything was - log off, restart, etc - I

        gotta say - when a GUI is not intuitive, it's failed.

        The abomination that is a GUI in 2012R2 qualifies...

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: I often wonder...

          "Logged into a default install of 2012R2"

          Which an old version. Server 2016 defaults to no GUI...

  12. TheVogon Silver badge

    "My current pet peeve is around Excel windows that refuse to stay in the same place (open up 3 spreadsheets, and they all seem to cascade hap-hazardly even after being arranging them countless times one behind the other)"

    That's usually a graphics driver issue. Let me guess - Nvidia?

    1. Packet

      Seen this issue on both Nvidia and Intel.

      But graphics driver issue...tell me more ...

      1. TheVogon Silver badge

        "But graphics driver issue...tell me more ..."

        You need to install the full Nvidia driver, not the cut down one that ships with Windows 10. This includes detailed control in the settings of where exactly new app windows will appear...

  13. Ian Emery Silver badge

    Its not that I am down on M$, but...

    Every time I read Windows Fall, I keep reading it as Windows fail; could that first "l" really be a capital "I" ??

  14. conscience
    FAIL

    More DRM? No thanks.

    This extra DRM seems pointless and unwanted.

    Gamers won't want it turned on and will continue to cheat, mod, and generally customise their experience. All the DRM in the world won't stop workarounds, patching, cracks, edited files and custom hardware that enables gamers to get an advantage ranging from faster monitor, faster mouse and keyboard (both with a dozen buttons for speedy one-click macros each storing multi-key combos), plus other hardware cheat features built right in to 'gamer' motherboards etc. e.g. highlighting hidden opponents who otherwise wouldn't be visible.

    Developers will make themselves very unpopular if they disable features if the option is not active, and publishers and developers risk the wrath of gamers and having to wait on Microsoft to patch it when it inevitably all goes wrong, potentially trashing the popularity and success of their games with bad reviews and an angry backlash from furious gamers denied access to their games.

    Microsoft will likely abandon this sooner or later anyway, e.g. Microsoft shut down Games for Windows with zero consideration for the gamers, leaving devs and publishers to scramble to transfer their titles to Steam at their own expense or else piss off their customers by allowing Microsoft to kill their still played games.

    And what do Microsoft achieve? More lock-in? Slurping more user data? Taking away even more control from the people who actually own the computer?

    Business as usual for Microsoft, but no thanks.

  15. Len Goddard

    More gaming friendly?

    About the only game I play online won't display graphics at all until you disable the "gaming bar". Mind, it is not a M$ Xbox-ported-to-PC effort so they probably don't care.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: More gaming friendly?

      Sounds like a graphics driver issue concerning overlays and/or transparency. Might want to check if your drivers are up to date.

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    TruePlay sounds like another method of data mining Win10's users

    Why not just leave it up to game developers instead of encroaching into territory where you don't belong, Microsoft?

    1. Charles 9 Silver badge

      Re: TruePlay sounds like another method of data mining Win10's users

      Except this IS aimed at developers and publishers. They're simply providing an anti-cheat system a la VAC, it's up to them to actually USE it.

    2. Paul Shirley

      Re: TruePlay sounds like another method of data mining Win10's users

      The last thing you want is 3rd parties messing around in the OS to detect hacking. If they can do it then they can hack it and we know how bad they are at resisting that temptation. It's exalting the right place to detect tampering and as an occasional online gamer I'll welcome it along with other anti cheat systems. It's no fun playing against cheats.

      They just need to resist using this on single player gaming.

  17. Florida1920
    Big Brother

    You have been warned

    "Once a title activates TruePlay, it can monitor for weird activity during runtime, log performance and incidents, and report incidents."

    1. Charles 9 Silver badge

      Re: You have been warned

      So? Is this any different from Valve Anti-Cheat?

  18. JacobEye

    Nice one. I was waiting for something like this and expected it a bit soon though. I hate gamers using AimBots and other cheats. I hope Microsoft does something legit and solid so there is no breathing space for cheaters.

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