back to article You can yacht be serious: Larry might be planning his own version of America’s Cup

Oracle CTO Larry Ellison is reportedly launching his own world boat racing title – just months after his team was spanked at this year’s America’s Cup. According to yachting commentator Rob Mundle, Ellison is planning a world series with events held across the world. In a report on his website based on what he described as " …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Oooh, clever..

    To avoid any further humiliation, we'll write our own rules.

    Now why doesn't that surprise me?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Oooh, clever..

      "To avoid any further humiliation, we'll write our own rules."

      In the first decades of the America's Cup when the US won every time I think the saying was "Britannia rules the waves, but America waives the rules"

    2. theblackhand

      Re: Oooh, clever..

      Check recent Americas cups (and possible older ones as well), the holder has been writing the rules for a long time...

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: Oooh, clever..

        It's called the Americas cup - why are these foreign boats allowed to compete?

        1. lafnlab

          Re: Oooh, clever..

          It is named after the first boat to win the cup: the America.

          1. Richard Plinston Silver badge

            Re: Oooh, clever..

            > It is named after the first boat to win the cup: the America.

            Actually it is the "100 Guinea Cup" and was only called "America's Cup" after the America won it.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Oooh, clever..

          "It's called the Americas cup - why are these foreign boats allowed to compete?"

          For a similar reason that no other countries compete in your "World Series"!

          1. Kurt Meyer

            Re: Oooh, clever..

            @ AC

            "For a similar reason that no other countries compete in your "World Series"! "

            Ah, the wisdom of the anonymous cowards free to post anytime, anywhere, and on any subect they please.

            Knowledge of the subject under discussion not required.

            The Toronto Blue Jays - back-to-back World Series champions in 1992 and 1993.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Oooh, clever..

              "Knowledge of the subject under discussion not required.

              The Toronto Blue Jays - back-to-back World Series champions in 1992 and 1993."

              It said compete - i.e. in the present tense. I believe since those 2 years it has been US teams only?

              The point being made which obviously went straight over your head is that it's called the "World Series" for reasons other than where it takes place or who takes part - Just like the Americas Cup!

              1. Kurt Meyer

                Re: Oooh, clever..

                @ AC

                "For a similar reason that no other countries compete in your "World Series"! "

                The Toronto Blue Jays - back-to-back World Series champions in 1992 and 1993.

                "It said compete - i.e. in the present tense. I believe since those 2 years it has been US teams only?"

                Changing the terms of your argument after it is shown to be incorrect?

                Good job.

                In fact, prior to the Blue Jays winning the title, it was US teams only. So what?

                The Blue Jays have competed for the title of World Series champions every year since they were founded 40 years ago. They have only won the competition twice, as was pointed out to you in my previous post.

                They are, in fact, the second Canadian team to compete for that title. The Montreal Expos also competed for 35 years before they moved from Montreal.

                That the Blue Jays have only been champions in the two years mentioned, and the Expos never won the title, doesn't change the fact that both teams competed to do so.

                Using your "present tense" argument will you also claim that England have not competed for the World Cup since 1966?

                As dire as the performance of the Three Lions has been for the last 50 years, they have competed, however brief their participation.

                "The point being made which obviously went straight over your head is that it's called the "World Series" for reasons other than where it takes place or who takes part - Just like the Americas Cup!"

                I'm not missing any point. I am addressing your earlier claim, which is shown to be wrong.

                Are you going to stand by your original contention that "no other countries compete in your "World Series" "?

                Rather than accepting the correction, you have since added a further qualifier, and then gone on to a completely separate statement regarding the name of the competition, neither of which is germane to, or supportive of, your original statement.

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: Oooh, clever..

                  "Using your "present tense" argument will you also claim that England have not competed for the World Cup since 1966?"

                  Competed is past tense. England will compete this time because unlike the US they qualified...

                  1. Kurt Meyer

                    Re: Oooh, clever..

                    @ AC

                    "Competed is past tense. England will compete this time because unlike the US they qualified..."

                    Is that supposed to be a shot? A dig? A none too subtle jab?

                    I'll briefly return to baseball to describe it as:

                    A swing and a miss.

                    Now back to football. This may surprise you, but I was, and continue to be, thrilled that the ridiculously styled "USMNT" failed to qualify out of their wretchedly weak group.

                    The chants of "USA! USA!! US... Oh!" were, and still are, music to my ears.

                    I despise "soccer" as it is currently, and for the foreseeable future, presented in the US. I have no interest in MLS, and very little in the amateur game over here.

                    It is the world game, and I resent the American attempts to reshape it into another version, or variety, of the sports already established here.

                    I follow European football, and have done so since the days of my youth. I think it much more entertaining than the North American sports. The same holds true for motorsport.

                    So, like England, the side I follow, and support, and cheer for, and have for almost 50 years, did qualify, and will be in Russia next summer.

                    I understand they're coming to England to play a friendly against the Three Lions at Wembley on the 10th of November.

                    It should be an exciting match.

    3. Marketing Hack Silver badge
      Holmes

      Re: Oooh, clever..

      Hmmm, because it's so unlike Larry Ellison to ever write his own rules, even back in the days before his yachting-frenzy, when he was running Oracle.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Oooh, clever..

      I guess you have plenty of free time when your business model is based on hostages...

  2. Voland's right hand Silver badge

    So Oracle and so larry

    If you cannot win by the rules the world want to play, invent your own and unleash the demon horde of marketeers to promote them.

    1. Ledswinger Silver badge

      Re: So Oracle and so larry

      If you cannot win by the rules the world want to play, invent your own and unleash the demon horde of marketeers to promote them.

      And thus was born "American Football".

      1. Alistair Silver badge
        Windows

        Re: So Oracle and so larry

        And thus was born "American FootballIndustry".

        FTFY.

    2. bombastic bob Silver badge
      FAIL

      Re: So Oracle and so larry

      Maybe he should just hire some decent nautical engineers to design his boat, and teach his crew how to SAIL it properly...

  3. hplasm Silver badge
    Meh

    Only one rule:

    1. All yachts and teams to be owned by Oracle.

    1. Cynical Observer
      Trollface

      Re: Only one rule:

      SELECT winner FROM LarrysBoats;

    2. LDS Silver badge
      Devil

      Re: Only one rule:

      The only rule will be that boats and people from New Zealand are not allowed to compete....

    3. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge
      Facepalm

      Re: Only one rule:

      The second rule will be

      2) That it all takes place in the Oracle 'Cloud'.

      After all, this is a sales tool for Oracle and aren't they all about moving to their cloud.

    4. Uberseehandel

      Re: Only one rule:

      What makes you think they aren't all owned by Oracle already?

  4. Oor Nonny-Muss
    FAIL

    Louise Vuitton?

    "Mundle added that the final prize would be provided by Louise Vuitton"

    Is that owned by Kevin Cline?

  5. Prst. V.Jeltz Silver badge

    toys out of pram?

    nice going Larry , way to shit on 160 years of sporting history

    Even naming the cup after America isnt enough to keep America playing , now that they arnt winning.

    Larry: "Screw you guys , I'm going to build my own Americas cup , with blackjack , and hookers ..."

    1. Magani
      Headmaster

      Re: toys out of pram?

      Pedant Alert!

      Even naming the cup after America ...

      It's named after the schooner that won the first race, not the country.

      However, I agree with your title. Really sounds like Larry's taking his bat and his ball and going home to sulk.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: toys out of pram?

        "It's named after the schooner that won the first race, not the country."

        ... and the first race was round the Isle of Wight when local boat owners challenged the visiting US schooner. When told that the US boat had won Queen Vicrotia is reputed to have asked who came second but was informed "ma'am, there is no second place"

    2. Uberseehandel

      Re: toys out of pram?

      Now that Ellison is out of the America's Cup, other US yacht syndicates are entering. American's don't want to play boats with Ellison, they aren't all stupid.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: toys out of pram?

        "Now that Ellison is out of the America's Cup, other US yacht syndicates are entering. American's don't want to play boats with Ellison, they aren't all stupid."

        Didn't he loose this year?

  6. Voyna i Mor Silver badge

    There's only one problem with this approach

    Marching off taking your bat, ball and stumps with you doesn't work so well when all the other players also have full sets of equipment.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "I’m going to build my own theme park. With blackjack. And hookers."

      > Marching off taking your bat, ball and stumps with you doesn't work so well when all the other players also have full sets of equipment.

      Depends on how devious he's been.

      The America's cup is a race between the previous winner and one challenger. All the races prior to this are the Louis Vuitton cup races.

      If Larry has convinced them to support him instead (rather than as well as) then he's just pulled the funding out from under the America's cup qualifiers.

      1. Uberseehandel

        Re: "I’m going to build my own theme park. With blackjack. And hookers."

        There are more announced entries for the America's Cup regatta in Auckland, than Ellison could ever hope for in his "series".

      2. Youngone Silver badge

        Re: "I’m going to build my own theme park. With blackjack. And hookers."

        I really hope he's pulled the funding out from under the America's Cup, because as a New Zealand taxpayer I'm sick and tired of paying for these rich people to go off sailing.

        I would like nothing more than for the whole thing to go away.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: "I’m going to build my own theme park. With blackjack. And hookers."

          "I really hope he's pulled the funding out from under the America's Cup, because as a New Zealand taxpayer I'm sick and tired of paying for these rich people to go off sailing."

          So if he is funding it, how are you as a taxpayer paying for it?

          Also bear in mind an event like this brings in tens of millions to the local economy - so even if you are funding it to a limited degree, it's probably a net benefit...

  7. fishman

    The next Americas Cup

    Whoever has the cup can change the rules. The Kiwis and their poodle have decided to go back to monohulls instead of catamarans. This change has caused some teams from the last cup to not go for the next one.

    Larry was using the Americas Cup as leverage to build a world series of yacht racing. So it's not like he is doing it in revenge - he's just continuing what he had been doing before Team Oracle lost the cup.

  8. Ben1892

    The funny thing is that as winner of the last 3 cups Larry did get to write the rules, as such, the Kiwis can now re-write the rules and indeed have. They are getting rid of the inshore racing with 60 mph foiling multi-hulls and going back to yawn-inducing displacement monohull yachts, out in the middle of nowhere - not exactly a spectator sport and therefore will be difficult to find sponsors to pay for it. There are teams that have invested in the current AC World Series format and essentially have to throw that away all that R&D and start again with sponsors that are now getting itchy feet.

    1. Jim84

      These will be foiling monohulls, not your father's monohulls.

      1. fishman

        The problem is that it will be harder (and maybe even impossible) to tack a foiling monohull and keep it foiling while you tack, compared to tacking a foiling multihull. So that means that tacking and possibly gybing will really kill your speed, making the boats even less tactical.

        1. Uberseehandel

          Fishman

          You should tell America's Cup helmsman Nathan Outteridge you can't do a foiling tack/gybe in a monohull - https://youtu.be/ta12lE7xiSk

          1. fishman

            Sorry, I should have been more specific - I mean big BALLASTED monohulls. Even if you minimize the ballast weight by using canting keels, you will end up with a much heavier boat than a foiling cat.

            Moths are pretty cool. But their ballast is in a highly mobile person, and with the racks you get the leverage and the boat is light. The boat and rig is about 30Kg, and the crew is about 70Kg or so.

            Sadly I'm not agile enough to sail a foiling Moth - the best I've been able to do is sail a 505 with a spinnaker up singlehanded.

    2. Uberseehandel

      There are already more boats provisionally entered for the America's Cup regatta in Auckland, than Ellison attracted to any of his AC regattas.

      The new boats may be monohulls, but they will be foiling monohulls, not displacement boats.

      Ben1892, you are trash talking an event you no nothing about.

  9. Marc 13
    Trollface

    Might have to be careful with a name... there's already a World Cup Series of sailing

    http://www.sailing.org/worldcup/home.php

    Still, I guess there will be a license involved to take part... you must have a license for each Tiller (steering wheel) used by your team... BUT Just having one Tiller does not mean 1 license, if you have 3 test boats that you *could* use that Tiller on, you must also license those boats too...

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      And don't forget, if the Tiller is mutli-spoked, then you pay per spoke, unless it's in an Oracle boat.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "you must have a license for each Tiller (steering wheel) used by your team"

      And they wont tell you that clearly until after they have installed one for you without telling you....

  10. Mystic Megabyte Silver badge
    Joke

    Left hand down a bit!

    Larry's plans are hard to fathom, he could be full of sheet.

    <sorry if that was tackless....OK I'm going now>

    1. Cynical Observer
      Joke

      Re: Left hand down a bit!

      You know what's going to happen now....

      Everyone is going to have a jibe at Larry's expense.

      1. TechDrone
        Joke

        Re: Left hand down a bit!

        You're having a luff

        1. 's water music Silver badge
          Joke

          Re: Left hand down a bit!

          Larry really doesn't have a clew

    2. Alister Silver badge

      Re: Left hand down a bit!

      Whilst doing a quick google to explore nautical terms I could use to extend this plethora of puns, I was stopped in my tracks by the following definition:

      - A signalman who prepares and flies flag hoists.

      How very apt, I thought.

      Larry Ellison, what a Bunting Tosser!

      1. bombastic bob Silver badge
        Devil

        Re: Left hand down a bit!

        "A signalman who prepares and flies flag hoists."

        Also referred to as a "Skivvy Waiver" [with 'skivvies' being a navy term for boxer shorts]

        Is that anything like 'bunting tosser' ?

        In the USA, 'bunting' is a baseball term where you hold the bat horizontally and allow the ball to bounce off of it, ideally stopping after a short distance, somewhat between home plate and the pitcher. This forces the catcher and/or pitcher to run from their positions to grab the ball and throw it to first base for a 'forced out'. Usually the batter will be out, but it allows time for a runner to get to home plate (score) or for a runner to advance to the next base (as a strategy to score a run later).

        1. Alistair Silver badge
          Windows

          Re: Left hand down a bit!

          Yo bob: that's a bunt. A verb.

          bunting, in leftpond view is either the odd cloth skirting wrapped around railings during a special event, or the cloth with which one wraps a small infant. Historically, esp deep south usa it was a colloquial reference to a ladies underskirts.

        2. FLes

          Re: Left hand down a bit!

          In the USA, to the USAians who haven't been enraptured by the interminable charms of baseball, bunting is a type of cloth used for decorations or flags or just those decorations themselves.

          Edit: Damn it, just like Alistair said.

  11. Adair

    It might be fun...

    but it won't be 'The America's Cup', just another '...dirty little regatta'*.

    The AC, meanwhile, is what it is, and there's nothing else quite like it, thanks to the 'Deed of Gift'. The gift that just keeps on giving as it scuppers the plans of mighty men (mighty women too maybe one day) to own the AC.

    The AC, as long as the DoG continues to hold sway, will remain simply a yacht race, boring as that may be to the uninterested. A yacht race between monied people willing to throw their money away on technology and muscle power for the sake of holding a very ugly piece of silverware, but one that represents a long and gloriously turbulent tradition. Long may it continue.

    * Mr. Grant Dalton's terse put down of the Coutts-Ellison attempt to turn the AC into yachting's version of 'Formula 1'.

  12. Lars Silver badge
    Megaphone

    Sadly

    Sadly the Americas Cup was destroyed years ago when the R12 yachts fell out. As far as I remember there was some Australian who challenged the rule and won. Then any size any type was allowed. The Whitbread Round the World Race started to have the same problem until they decided to go with a "one-design yacht" (same for all), the Volvo Ocean 65, and the race is now The Volvo Ocean Race, sailed every three years. (nice stuff on YouTube).

    Anyway the Americas cup has, in my opinion, lost all its interest.

    If Ellison can get support for something more interesting and sports like "with events round the world" then I wish him best of luck, sincerely. Who knows perhaps a British yacht might then win for the first time. Funny in a way, as both AC and VO have a British background but no wins in either.

    Very appropriate icon, I must admit.

  13. WolfFan Silver badge

    Feh. If you want to add excitement, and realism, don't use any of these new-build thingies, use real purpose built ships designed to represent their countries in real shenanigans. I propose a meeting between HMS Victory and USS Constellation, winner owns the North Atlantic. Come, cheer up me lads, for 'tis to glory we steer...

    1. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

      I propose a meeting between HMS Victory and USS Constellation

      Can we practise on the French first?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        "Can we practise on the French first?"

        Fastest in reverse wins?

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