back to article How many times can Microsoft kill Mobile?

"Without the end points you aren't going to have the impact in the world and people's lives so you have to think about this next generation of computing as mobile-first, cloud-first," said Microsoft's CEO three years ago. Strictly speaking, there's no change in Microsoft's position on its dormant-but-nominally-still-supported …

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    1. MyffyW Silver badge

      Everybody's Dead, Dave

      Lister: Where is everybody, Hol?

      Holly: They're dead, Dave.

      Lister: Who is?

      Holly: Everybody, Dave.

      Lister: What, the 850?

      Holly: Everybody's dead, Dave.

      Lister: What, the little 530?

      Holly: Everybody's dead, Dave.

      Lister: What, and the 525?

      Holly: They're all dead. Everybody's dead, Dave.

      Lister: The 920 isn't, is he?

      Holly: Everybody is dead, Dave.

      Lister: Not 1020?

      Holly: Gordon Bennett! Yes, the 1020, everybody, everybody's dead, Dave!

      Lister: 950?

      Holly: He's dead, Dave, everybody is dead, everybody is dead, Dave.

      Lister: Wait. Are you trying to tell me everybody's dead?

      Holly: I wish I'd never let him out in the first place.

      1. Rameses Niblick the Third Kerplunk Kerplunk Whoops Where's My Thribble? Silver badge
        Coffee/keyboard

        Re: Everybody's Dead, Dave

        I approve of this comment.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Everybody's Dead, Dave

        Shame - Windows mobile was by some distance the most secure mobile OS platform versus IOS or Android.

        1. DougS Silver badge

          @AC "most secure mobile platform"

          Based on what? By demonstrably useless CVE counts?

          Given all the code it shares with desktop Windows 10, and how full of holes that is, that's a ridiculous claim that could only be made by a Windows fanboy posting as AC. The only thing Windows Phone had going for it was, like iOS but unlike Android, regular patching. Claiming it more secure than iOS based on CVE counts is provably stupid.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: @AC "most secure mobile platform"

            "Based on what? "

            Based on close to zero exploitable vulnerabilities ever, zero malware and on numerous expert opinions:

            https://mspoweruser.com/hacker-claims-windows-phone-the-most-secure-smartphone-os/

            https://betanews.com/2015/06/11/windows-phone-security-is-top-notch-says-kaspersky/

            etc.

        2. PeterM42
          Trollface

          Re: Everybody's Dead, Dave

          "Shame - Windows mobile was by some distance the most secure mobile OS platform versus IOS or Android."

          That's because nobody could be bothered to hack it. - Not enough users!

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Everybody's Dead, Dave

        Does that make rimmer clippy?

    2. DougS Silver badge

      Re: Microsoft is trying very hard to kill itself.

      Doesn't matter how much they screw up, they can't kill Windows on the desktop or server, or Office, or Exchange/Outlook. Some of us might wish they could a way, but I really don't see how.

      Microsoft may no longer be the powerful force that can turn the whole IT industry on its ear with a single announcement like back in the late 90s, but those products still generate gobs of cash and Microsoft doesn't even really need to do anything to improve them at this point. Just patch security issues and keep up with the industry (i.e. supporting Office on non-Microsoft smartphones) and they'll keep collecting money year after year, only ceasing when desktops/laptops stop selling.

      1. This post has been deleted by its author

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Microsoft is trying very hard to kill itself.

          "...I would keep an eye on Google: They will own the desktop in a decade..."

          You mean those fuck-ups that twice bought a phone-manufacturer and brandname and couldn't deal with either of them? Those idiots that one day claim to bring their "desktop OS" closer to their "mobile OS" and the next day deny all of this (which sounds suspiciously like Microsoft actually)? Those morons whom hide every stamina tweaking crap of their mobile OS with cool sounding names, like Project Volta or Project Doze, but can't see the biggest power saving feature which literally stares them in the face (like utilising black on Amoled screens perhaps)?

          Sure, let THEM reign the desktop, then we're in for worst!

          No thanks, 2 bad guys on the desktop is enough we don't don't need a third one. And we definitely don't want one to become the dominant marketleader again!!!

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Microsoft is trying very hard to kill itself.

            They bought patent pool to combat patent trolling by Microsoft, they sold patent less companies on. Very smart move, and as the patents are shared for free with other non trolling companies, it's a good thing.

            As for amoled, I think your beef is with hardware manufacturers, not android or Google.

            Do you have a grown up that looks after you???

        2. Orv Silver badge

          Re: Microsoft is trying very hard to kill itself.

          I would keep an eye on Google: They will own the desktop in a decade, while the open source crowd gapes in astonishment, because the key's in having a business productivity ecosystem - and not just a pretty GUI.

          I'd like to agree with you, because I've developed for the Chrome App platform and quite like it. But I think the writing is on the wall and Google will be killing that platform. They've already removed support for it on desktop systems, and Chromebooks can now run Android apps. There have been no chrome.app API developments in well over a year. They haven't admitted it yet, but I think they plan on phasing out ChromeOS in favor of running Android on laptops and tablets. They're no longer interested in the desktop market, except for stuff that can be hosted as standard HTML5 web apps.

          Where they've really demolished MS, though, is in the low-end office suite department. The "G Suite" apps are toys compared to MS Office or even LibreOffice, but most people just need to type letters and the occasional budget spreadsheet, and Google does that just fine. I've also worked at places that supported both G Suite and Office 365, and Office 365 had a lot more downtime.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Microsoft is trying very hard to kill itself.

            Weirdly, I prefer GSuite, it works better for many tasks, and it's the same as the free one I use at home. I don't have to learn two different web apps.

        3. Dr Mantis Toboggan

          Re: Microsoft is trying very hard to kill itself.

          You only have to look at a current Chromebook to see the future, £200 gets you a device that is Uber secure, boots in 2 seconds and gives you 12 hour battery life. Its totally devoid of all the problems of windows and Mac. You can get viruses, there is no need for virus scanners, it's totally safe to use for secure online banking, you don't have to worry about backups. You have 1 thing to do to make it secure, ensure your Google account is secure (2FA and unique strong password). You are good to go.

          Its a total breath of fresh air compared to everything else. Mine is now 3 years old, gets used daily coat £160, and is as fast as it was the day I bought it. Its perfectly suitable for 90% of consumers and 100% of schools, and as business wake up to the security advantages of cloud, more and more of them will understand that relying on windows and lots of emailed round copies of uncontrolled document attachments are much worse than a single cloud document with centrally managed access

          1. RyokuMas Silver badge
            Facepalm

            Re: Microsoft is trying very hard to kill itself.

            "You only have to look at a current Chromebook to see the future..."

            ... and yet these are exactly the same people who are bitching about Win10 telemetry. Google's entire business is based on spying on us, it has been pretty much since day one! And people are blindly accepting it! Not even Microsoft achieved that!

            Wake up!

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Microsoft is trying very hard to kill itself.

              "and yet these are exactly the same people who are bitching about Win10 telemetry."

              So... don't use a chromebook because windows also has telemetry?

              With Windows, running on "your" machine, you get all the arse ache and the spying. There's no real alternative, for consumers.

              I'd rather my "support clients" use a maintenance free Linux than Windows, which would require either themselves, PC Word, or myself to fix.

              My (least computer literate) child has a chromebook - Zero problems with it. Everything they do is online regardless of OS.

            2. Dr Mantis Toboggan

              Re: Microsoft is trying very hard to kill itself.

              Microsoft, Apple, Facbook all have EXACTLY the same business model, and sell your details in EXACTLY the same way.

              if you think you are better by not avoiding Google, then you need to go read up on Microsoft, Apple and Facebook privacy statements, be prepared for a shock... They still your details in the same way, but give you MUCH less in return (Appl even have the audacity so sell you overpriced hardware in exchange for your details...)

      2. IGnatius T Foobar

        Re: Microsoft is trying very hard to kill itself.

        Microsoft may no longer be the powerful force that can turn the whole IT industry on its ear with a single announcement like back in the late 90s, but those products still generate gobs of cash and Microsoft doesn't even really need to do anything to improve them at this point.

        And we like them that way. Microsoft is no longer an existential threat to everyone in the industry who is not Microsoft. Combine this with the fact that after a 20 year beta period, Windows is finally usable now, and a lot of us can finally be a bit more chill about these things.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Microsoft is trying very hard to kill itself.

        Agreed. Look at the financials of Microsoft (and even IBM, Oracle etc) and they are still making plenty of cash. All these companies will be around for decades to come.

        1. Manu T

          Re: Microsoft is trying very hard to kill itself.

          Sure, crooks always find ways to keep afloat.

          As for the people whom started those companies, why would they care? They're all filthy rich.

    3. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Megaphone

      Re: Microsoft is trying very hard to kill itself.

      Well, if Belfiore admits that WinPhone is essentially DYING, I wonder how long it will be before he admits THESE things [that he so proudly announced] will ALSO die:

      a) spyware - " So the system is going to give us a 'smart suggestion' for an app in the store that is going to be one that's suitable for ~me~."

      b) adware - "on the client we know which apps you're launching, and which apps you're installing, and so we're able to communicate with the store and bring down suggestions that are personalized for ~you~"

      c) his focus on "universal windows platform" ==> UWP

      (the quotes are from his (in)famous speech at a developer's conference during the insider program for win-10-nic, where he revealed the adware, spyware, and other plans as if they were *GOOD* things)

      And - Mr. Belf**ck-you-all-e - how about getting rid of that 2D FLATSO FLUGLY THE METRO CRAP-INTERFACE too.

      In other words, go back to 7, the way it was before "Ape" was released. Apply the back-end fixes and anything that makes the system faster, but LEAVE THE @#$% &$*# !}{% INTERFACE THE WAY IT WAS this time!

      And _NO_ forced updates, either.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Microsoft is trying very hard to kill itself.

        Yeps, it seem the smart people left the building... a long time ago... and apparently in a galaxy far away... a galaxy were ergonomics had a meaning. On this planet they call it skeuomorphism which sounds like a bad disease instead of something that humans could relate to.

        But I guess in this AI ridden world humans soon don't matter either...

      2. Timmy B Silver badge

        Re: Microsoft is trying very hard to kill itself.

        And - Mr. Belf**ck-you-all-e - how about getting rid of that 2D FLATSO FLUGLY THE METRO CRAP-INTERFACE too.

        You're going to be so upset soon, BOB!!!! As Linux is ALL GOING FLATSO TOO!! !!

        1. Teiwaz Silver badge

          Re: Microsoft is trying very hard to kill itself.

          You're going to be so upset soon, BOB!!!! As Linux is ALL GOING FLATSO TOO!! !!

          What do your mean all going damn flat themes have been more annoyingly 'in' than all those 'happy happy' songs that sat in the charts for unfeasibly long periods during the 80's.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Microsoft is trying very hard to kill itself.

      Apparently yet another mobile Windows OS version is coming with the major windows 10 update due in 2018. This will be designed to allow apps on both desktop and mobile without having to design specific crappy "unified" versions.

    5. TheVogon Silver badge

      Re: Microsoft is trying very hard to kill itself.

      "After what we've seen on the desktop, mobile and even server"

      What have they screwed up on Server? Cant think of anything much there. it's been fast, stable, pretty secure versus the competition, and is secured / minimal / no GUI by default. All good things.

      1. Maventi

        Re: Microsoft is trying very hard to kill itself.

        "What have they screwed up on Server?"

        The licensing model.

        1. Roger Greenwood

          Re: Microsoft is trying very hard to kill itself.

          "What have they screwed up on Server?"

          SBS

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Microsoft is trying very hard to kill itself.

          "The licensing model."

          16 Cores in the base Datacentre version for $6K once off and then 25% a year for support / maintenance isn't exactly complex. VMWare, Oracle, etc all have similar models. For the vast majority of boxes in the long term it works out much cheaper than say RHEL (which on the fully featured supported version is over $9K per year per instance!)

          "SBS"

          That was an application product suite that included Windows Server and Exchange. So a bit more than Windows Server as was mentioned above. Yes that it's EOL is annoying for anyone that used it, but Exchange is a very complex product to be running on site for <75 users. I can see why it now makes sense for people to move to O365 + Server 2016 Essentials instead...

    6. Chemical Bob

      Re: Microsoft is trying very hard to kill itself.

      "After what we've seen on the desktop, mobile and even server, in the last few years, there aren't too many more areas left for them to screw up in."

      I'm sure they will soon start a diversification effort in order to find new industries to fail at.

      Animal husbandry, for example.

      1. caffeine addict Silver badge

        Re: Microsoft is trying very hard to kill itself.

        I'm sure they will soon start a diversification effort in order to find new industries to fail at.

        Animal husbandry, for example.

        Then we'll know they've truly screwed the pooch...

      2. ma1010 Silver badge

        Re: Microsoft is trying very hard to kill itself.

        @Chemical Bob

        Well, they could try animal husbandry, I suppose. But, like the BOFH's boss, I doubt they'll get very far beyond the wedding night.

    7. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Microsoft is trying very hard to kill itself.

      Yep, the arrogance of the iPhone and blackberry funeral. That is all you need to know. Karma has come full circle for Microsoft scumbag marketing, it's almost full circle for Xbox too, which is surely on life support.

      Investors knew this was coming (share price didn't even blip), they know Xbox isfor the chop too, possibly surface devices too....

  2. Dan 55 Silver badge

    Nothing follows

    You need hardware to run an OS on, there isn't that hardware and as a result the OS platform is burned.

    The only thing they could possibly have a go at is a UWP runner on iOS and Android, and that would fail too.

    1. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Mushroom

      Re: Nothing follows

      "The only thing they could possibly have a go at is a UWP runner on iOS and Android, and that would fail too."

      That's because UWP itself is _FAIL_.

      Is _ANYONE_ *SERIOUSLY* targeting UWP these days? One, maybe two people that ARE NOT owned by Micro-shaft?

      Either Micro-shaft will COMPLETELY nuke themselves into oblivion by ABANDONING Win32 API support (basically invalidating all 'other toolkits' and legacy applications), or they'll see the light and quietly let it die like they did with Silverlight and a few other things...

      1. MJI Silver badge

        Re: Nothing follows

        If MS kill WIN32 they will kill of their own company

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Dutch East India company, GEC, TWA, Pan Am, Sperry, DEC, Kodak ...

    (No, not the Rupert Murdoch resume ....)

    The longer-than-you'd-think history of megacorps is littered with names that are only now seen in museums.

    No one has a God-given right to trade (something people agitating in the UK to leave the EU should really take note of ?!?!?). Not even Microsoft.

    1. Manu T

      Re: Dutch East India company, GEC, TWA, Pan Am, Sperry, DEC, Kodak ...

      It doesn't matter. The people whom started those companies became filthy rich and lived the good live. Why would they care if their companies lived on?

      Or do you really believe that Bill Gates would work in a McDonalds nearby flipping burgers, when M$ suddenly went belly-up?

      I think it's either we, IT people, whom would be flipping burgers instead.

      1. AndyS

        Re: Dutch East India company, GEC, TWA, Pan Am, Sperry, DEC, Kodak ...

        FYI, you're using the word "whom" wrongly.

        "Who" is a subject, "whom" is an object. In both cases, you've used "whom" as a subject. It's the same difference as "I kicked the ball" vs "me kicked the ball."

        1. Terry 6 Silver badge
          Headmaster

          Re: Dutch East India company, GEC, TWA, Pan Am, Sperry, DEC, Kodak ...

          "Whom" is mostly used after a preposition; for whom, to whom, with whom etc

          So "With whom are you dining?" versus "Who are you eating with?". Even when used correctly it is often best avoided, because it just sounds rather pretentious.

          Technically it is the objective form of "who", i.e. where the subject of the sentence is not the "who" but the what they do. The usage in the form "Whom are you going to visit" is technically correct, but pretty much obsolete, partly because pretentious, but also if you are going to try to use it like that you would end up by finishing some sentences with the preposition, which is a no no for any grammar pedant. As is in "Whom are you eating with" rather than the above "With whom....."

          Personally I think there is an elegance to using preposition+whom, so I'd hate for it to die off due to misuse..

  4. artem

    Seriously, who cares?

    Windows Mobile along with its ugly 8bit tiles has been an abomination from the get go and deserved to die. Too bad, parts of this abomination found their way into Windows 8/10 and now people have to "enjoy" moronic apps on their desktops, including UWP'ized Start Menu and maimed ugly cr*ptastic Control Panel, a.k.a. PC Settings. And Microsoft keeps persisting with UWP despite failing spectacularly in mobile.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      I disagree.

      Windows Mobile - from 7.5/7.6 on was actually quite a nice way to use a phone. If only for the fact that it had a proper "Driving mode" baked in from scratch which understood that if you are driving, you should be having calls and SMS go to voicemail or be autoreplied to.

      Not like the 99% of Android "Driving Mode" apps which are intended to encourage the user to text/call when driving.

      1. Wyrdness

        Re: I disagree.

        "Windows Mobile - from 7.5/7.6 on......"

        By which time it was far too late. I had a Windows phone even before Apple launched the iPhone and it sucked big time. Infighting within Microsoft meant that all innovation was stifled. The all-powerful Windows team wanted Windows everywhere, including places that it didn't belong - like on phones. It was years before Microsoft could address these issues and actually produce a decent phone OS. By then, they'd already lost.

        1. bombastic bob Silver badge
          Trollface

          Re: I disagree.

          "The all-powerful Windows team wanted Windows everywhere, including places that it didn't belong"

          And then, DUMB THE INTERFACE DOWN so that everyone is equally *MEDIOCRE*. Like certain political philosophies that demand "equal outcomes".

          troll icon because, previous comment. heh.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: I disagree.

          The biggest flaw is calling the damn thing "Windows" while there isn't a single window insight!

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: I disagree.

            "The biggest flaw is calling the damn thing "Windows" while there isn't a single window insight!"

            There is if you use the default wallpaper! Well a blue representation of one at least....

      2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: I disagree.

        "a proper "Driving mode" baked in from scratch which understood that if you are driving, you should be having calls and SMS go to voicemail or be autoreplied to."

        Any phone can have this. It's called an off switch.

      3. Dr Mantis Toboggan
        FAIL

        Re: I disagree.

        Windows mobile was dire, the UI didn't know is if it wanted to be mobile or desktop and failed bad!y on both...

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: I disagree.

          Windows Mobile was pretty good actually. Especially the last versions. Windows Phone is the "dire" one.

          It seems that a lot of people don't know the difference between the Windows CE based phone OS's that Microsoft made which were pretty good actually (full outlook syncing, call-recording etc...) and the later, completely incompatible, Zune-like Windows Phone OS's. That's their biggest mistake. They completely dumbed the business world whom relied on M$ Office and Outlook (the program NOT the webmail) for this ZUNE-like phone OS targetted at consumers. Bad move! And now it is too late. Android syncs perfect with outlook through certain 3rd party apps (or brand included syncing solutions e.g. Nokia suite, Samsung's KIES etc...), just as Apple's iTunes also syncs perfectly.

          So, do we really need a Microsoft on mobile?

          1. Barry Rueger Silver badge

            Re: I disagree.

            They completely dumbed the business world whom relied on M$ Office and Outlook (the program NOT the webmail) for this ZUNE-like phone OS targetted at consumers.

            That would have been about the time when BlackBerry abandoned business customers to try and sell sparkly pink phones to teenagers.

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: I disagree.

            And also screwed developers code that worked on CE mobile (uo to win mobile 6.x) needed huge rewrite (for complex apps, not as bad for anything mickey mouse, but a kick in the teeth for complex business apps) to migrate to Win mobile 7. A win 6.x app would not run on Win mobile 7. Plenty of people (crucially, ,many early adopters with sophisticated apps) gave up on Win mobile at that stage as major rewrites needed for Win 7 could not be justified in man hours needed. Still have people running business critical Win mobile 6.x apps!

      4. cyberdemon
        Facepalm

        Re: I disagree.

        > Windows Mobile - from 7.5/7.6 on was actually quite a nice way to use a phone

        You're having a bubble bath?

        MAEMO was a nice way to use a phone - really nice. Doubled up as a mobile SSH terminal, even had X11 forwarding support.

        Unfortunately, Microsoft murdered it and its mother Nokia in an ultimately doomed attempt to push Windows Mobile!

        1. Teiwaz Silver badge

          Re: I disagree.

          Unfortunately, Microsoft murdered it and its mother Nokia in an ultimately doomed attempt to push Windows Mobile!

          Sheesh, I still use a N900, but Nokia wasn't all that.

          Nokia weren't exactly blazing a path along a rainbow from the N900/N950 when the sale to Microsoft happened. They were like the Disco craze in 1982 (if not actually paśse, nearly paśse).

          Harmattan feels clunky now - but still preferable to what else is available.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      While it is very easy to rectify stuff.

      Just re-introduce themes in Windows 10 and supply a Windows 7-based theme. With full Glass, skeuomorphism, beautifull icons and buttons that are clear and visible buttons and not window decorations.

      And obviously also introduce a grey, Windows 95/ME-theme alongside.

      And before people flame me. I do believe in change, sure. But change doesn't need to be in your face like Metro was! Change should be chosen not enforced! If M$ made Windows 8 look like Windows 7 and released the tile-based UI as a free downloadable theme then people would have accepted this "change" much easier. Today this resistance against this obligatory UI change is one o/t things that is killing them! And shuffling bosses around isn't the solution either!

  5. Mage Silver badge
    Happy

    Any hope, a silver lining

    It would be nice if they ditched all the touch screen and phone OS crap from Win10. Made it just like a modern version of NT4.0.

    Approx 1 pixel wide highlight on two sides and 1 pixel shadow on opposite two sides. Anything clickable a button of some kind rather than plain flat icons and plain flat text by a web designer designing something better suited to a paper brochure than a web site.

    An OS GUI should NOT look like a badly designed overly flat website.

    Consistent & logical locations for all settings

    Stop making base version totally crippled.

    1. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

      Re: Any hope, a silver lining

      What will they do with their 'Surface' thingies if you take away all that delightful (in Redmonds eyes) touchy feely interface?

      Should they can the Surface then the way is open but I really, really doubt that MS will do a 'U' turn of such magnitude and get rid of METRO/Tiles etc.

      1. bombastic bob Silver badge
        Boffin

        Re: Any hope, a silver lining

        "I really, really doubt that MS will do a 'U' turn of such magnitude and get rid of METRO/Tiles etc."

        It's probably too late to stop the Titanic from hitting the iceberg, yeah. "All back emergency" followed by 30 seconds of frantic propeller noise going "churn, churn, churn, churn" because momentum equals mass times velocity and kinetic energy equals velocity SQUARED times mass, and so it takes a SHIPload of energy to un-do all of that momentum by adding "negative kinetic energy" to stop a Titanic, freight train, or Micro-shaft...

  6. Andy 97

    The levels of buffoonery (that I observe) are simply unmatched outside of a Rowan Atkinson or comedy.

    1. Semtex451 Silver badge

      You should work where I work

  7. davidp231

    "desktop (x86/ia64) " Don't they mean "x64"? ia64 is Itanium, which was ditched long before Windows 10 came into being.

  8. Mage Silver badge
    Flame

    Andromeda

    Win CE using win3.x and win 95 GUI was stupid

    Win8 using Zune GUI was stupid.

    YOU CAN'T MAKE ONE GUI SUIT EVERYTHING. IT'S BLOODY INSANE.

    TVs, Desktop/laptop, small phones, big tablets, POS etc need quite different GUIs.

    Ever tried using Spreadsheet or full wordprocessing on a big tablet with no keyboard and Mouse? Makes no difference if Win10 or Android. It's crap till you plug in the keyboard and mouse.

    Ever tried using an app really designed for phones on an 11" tablet or 21" Windows 10 All in one Touch screen? It's crap.

    You tried using phone or PC on 43" TV 8 feet away? Tried using a remote with stupid Android TV on a 32" TV 6 ft away, it's crap.

    By all means use same underlying OS, such as drivers, filesystem and kernel, but only a moronic egotistical company inflicts SAME GUI on every device.

    Also if it's got a different GUI and can't run same drivers and apps, DON'T give it the same name.

    I'm glad Ubuntu is ditching the Unity stupidity that was trying to do the Win8/Win10/Zune/Metro/UWP/Modern UI garbage idea on phones and desktop.

    1. Mage Silver badge
      Angel

      Re: Andromeda: Apple

      For all that Apple is overpriced one thing they had right for 2007 till recently:

      iOS and MacOS were totally different GUIs for different kinds of use/screen. They maybe need to rethink the latest versions of MacOS a little and think harder about the big iPads and the surface like big tablet with pen, keyboard and iOS.

      iOS/iPhone is maybe a bit to restrictive, but it's well suited to the main use & target market. MacOS is still quite well suited to its target market. Windows 10 is a disaster for the most important markets for it, content creators, SOHO, SME and Enterprise. Especially legacy Windows business applications. That is 99% of the market for Windows, yet it seems aimed at content consuming users buying iPads or Android Tablets. MS, that is NOT your market. You are enraging and crippling business users trying to address it. Look how well merging desktop & phone has worked! Once upon a time in North America Win CE had 22% on pocket devices, you have pushed it to 0.3% or less and seriously damaged the laptop/desktop and server market.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Andromeda: Apple

        "...Windows 10 is a disaster for the most important markets for it,..."

        I disagree here. Windows 10 LOOKS like a disaster but technically it is a pretty good OS. If they just continued with Glass and perhaps released the tile-based UI as a free-downloadable "theme" then things would be much different. It's just that they enforced it too brutally upon consumers. And everybody KNOWS that enforcing stuff ALWAYS fails!

      2. Kristian Walsh Silver badge

        Re: Andromeda: Apple

        iOS and MacOS were totally different GUIs for different kinds of use/screen. They maybe need to rethink the latest versions of MacOS a little and think harder about the big iPads and the surface like big tablet with pen, keyboard and iOS.

        I think what you're saying is that Apple has yet to confront the problem Microsoft was trying to solve back in 2012: how to make a device work well on both touch and mouse input. Windows 8 favoured touch to the exclusion of mouse input; Windows 10 treats both more equally.

        They superficially look the same, but Windows 10 is not the same UI for mouse and touch. It's about 80% the same, but things like click-targets and pop-up controls change their size and spacing when you're using touch input. It's also actually pretty easy for app developers to do complementary mouse and touch interaction on controls, once they decide that it's something that should be done (hint: fingers can't generate MouseEntered events).

        I think Apple would cancel macOS entirely before they'd make it touch-capable. The only value in iOS is its app catalogue, and running those apps on a Mac will either compromise the security sandboxing that iOS guarantees app authors (if Apple still allows root access), or make macOS a similar low-function proposition to ChromeOS (if Apple blocks root access). The latter would kill Apple's sales to all those trendy tech companies; the former could cause some apps to be completely withdrawn from iOS.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Andromeda: Apple

        "Windows 10 is a disaster for the most important markets for it, content creators, SOHO, SME and Enterprise."

        That doesn't seem to be the case if you look at deployment figures and progress. It's on over 500 million desktops already and corporates are adopting it in droves.

        "Especially legacy Windows business applications."

        The vast majority of applications that run on Windows 7 can be persuaded to run on Windows 10. And even if something doesn't you can virtualise Windows 7 under it.

    2. getHandle

      Re: Andromeda

      You had me until Unity - works perfectly well for me on desktop! Needed a launcher on tablets though... http://www.techrepublic.com/article/the-one-simple-fix-that-make-the-ubuntu-phone-incredible/

    3. IGnatius T Foobar

      Re: Andromeda

      By all means use same underlying OS, such as drivers, filesystem and kernel, but only a moronic egotistical company inflicts SAME GUI on every device.

      You mean like Linux with X11 on desktops and Linux with the Android UI on phones? Yup, it works great; millions of satisfied users confirm it :)

  9. Boris the Cockroach Silver badge
    Windows

    Hooray

    No more windows mobile

    Now... can we have a proper desktop on win10 that looks like win7/vista/xp/98/95

    After all.. its only an update away....

    <<<has been stuck in win10 hell all day and it looks .. to put it bluntly.. belgium... totally and utterly belgium

    1. David 132 Silver badge

      Re: Hooray

      bel***m... totally and utterly bel***m

      I'll thank you not to use language like that, this is a family website and there might be children, maiden aunts or horses reading this.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Hooray

        ... or even Belgians!

      2. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

        Re: Hooray

        horses reading this

        I think that any horses' interaction with El Reg is mostly coming from the other end of the horse..

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Hooray

      "Now... can we have a proper desktop on win10 that looks like win7/vista/xp/98/95"

      Yes. http://www.classicshell.net/

  10. Bob Vistakin
    Pint

    Microsoft has already "shown what follows"

    It's all here at this website.

    1. Thoguht Silver badge

      Re: Microsoft has already "shown what follows"

      Makes sense, they already make far more money from Android than they ever did with their own mobile platforms.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Microsoft has already "shown what follows"

        Not anymore, the fat32 patent has long been invalidated, they don't make very much and haven't done for 3 years or more. The moment those payments dried up, they couldn't offset the losses in the devices division and had to start reporting it's real disaster magnitude... Keep up...

        http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-11-07-huge-xbox-losses-hidden-by-patent-royalties-says-analyst

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Microsoft has already "shown what follows"

          "Not anymore, the fat32 patent has long been invalidated"

          There are several patents related to FAT32 and whilst a couple were invalidated, Microsoft won every case for revenue against Motorola, TomTom etc based on the remaining patents as far as I am aware.

          Anyway the patents for exFAT were only issued in 2013 and they are all still valid. Hard not to support that in any device that needs large cross platform removable storage. Even the PS4 licences it...

  11. chivo243 Silver badge
    Pint

    How many times can Microsoft kill Mobile?

    Until it's dead? This is a trick question right?

    1. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Terminator

      Re: How many times can Microsoft kill Mobile?

      Yes. Micro-shaft should KILL windows phone TO DEATH. Except by then, it will become UNDEAD. Kinda like this:

      https://allthetropes.org/wiki/Category:Undead_Horse_Trope

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: How many times can Microsoft kill Mobile?

      Answer: Not enough.

      Personally, Windows mobile is irrelevant to me - apart from the fact that they've ruined the Windows desktop experience. Thankfully, that's also now irrelevant to me.

  12. gryff
    Flame

    Cue Python sketch

    dead, polly gone, snuffed it...

    More seriously, the Nokia UI team added some improvements to WinPho 8, then got fired after the takeover and WinMob10 sucks. (NIH syndrome)

    In the past 5 years I've tried Symbian Belle -> WinPho 8 -> Blackberry -> Apple -> WinMob10 -> Android

    AND I HATE ALL OF THEM

    Where is the UI innovation? Where is the decent phone at a decent price that does what I need?

    Apple pricing and UI suck. Android just sucks ... at any price.

    1. hplasm Silver badge
      Happy

      Re: Cue Python sketch

      " Where is the decent phone at a decent price that does what I need?"

      Have you tried one with a rotary dial?

  13. This post has been deleted by its author

    1. IGnatius T Foobar

      Re: Clusterfcuk

      Disappointed in 2015, went back to a SUPERB WM.

      Steve? Steve Ballmer? Is that you?

      1. Aitor 1

        Re: Clusterfcuk

        WM is quite good. But no third parties support it.,. they have been burned too many times.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Clusterfcuk

      You bought a bad Android, that is not Android fault, it's the nature of open platform. Do some research, they are plenty of great android devices out there, sub £200, they blow away anything Microsoft managed to do in the mid range, and pretty much every android device £500 upwards will blow away anything iOS or WP full stop.

      1. Hans 1 Silver badge
        Facepalm

        Re: Clusterfcuk

        You bought a bad Android

        Which part of Android OS sucks golf balls through garden hoses do you not understand ?

        I will not go into too many details, google it, the update fiasco is just ONE problem, there are many, many, many more ... like crappy sound management, a default email client that is a sad joke, lousy localization support, especially when you use, say, 4 different languages ... then you have the abysmal storage management ... iOS and BB10 can do all that ... very well ...

    3. bombastic bob Silver badge

      Re: Clusterfcuk

      " Mobile is not only the future, in fact it’s here now. Wake up you daft knobheads, or maybe don’t bother because it’s probably already far too late."

      Actually, the only way mobile will TRULY be "the future" is when the 'mobile devices' become 'persocoms' (obligatory 'Chobits' reference) or maybe a robot like THIS one.

      seriously, hand-held is so "noughties"! heh.

      1. Teiwaz Silver badge

        Re: Clusterfcuk

        Actually, the only way mobile will TRULY be "the future" is when the 'mobile devices' become 'persocoms' (obligatory 'Chobits' reference) or maybe a robot like THIS one.

        seriously, hand-held is so "noughties"! heh.

        Someone hasn't seen Space: above and Beyond [insert creeepy 'modem chirping' and gambling parlance here].

        Mobile is a 'thing' that's not yet out of the honeymoon stage, we've yet to find out what life is like when conversation is dead and the only thing we can talk about is 'how much we both like Total'. There may yet be disinterest and looking for other partners on the horizon, if not a messy divorce.

      2. FrankAlphaXII

        Re: Clusterfcuk

        Yeah, because we all want our phones calling us perverts.

        1. Teiwaz Silver badge

          Re: Clusterfcuk

          I'd quite like a pc that looks that cute (and optionally dresses like a gothloli) - but knowing the tech industry of today, it'd be unsafe, insecure and un-updateble.

  14. Erik4872

    Maybe it's time to rethink UWP and the mobile UI?

    I get where Microsoft is coming from. The company I work for also basically lives and dies based on a couple of products that are standards for the industry we support. This is very similar to Windows/Office on the desktop. Microsoft badly wanted to control the entire platform the way Apple does, or at least control the OS the way Google does. Big companies take a long time to react, and it's only now that they're fully admitting their mobile platform is dead. Once a company gets addicted to lock-in, no product or initiative that doesn't result in 100% guaranteed total lock-in will ever get reasonable levels of funding. Look at Azure - Microsoft is poised to be the next IBM mainframe provider. Now THAT is lock-in on a grand scale...no more one-off software sales. We're moving one of those cash cow applications to Azure now, and it's astounding that people don't see that they'll be paying Microsoft *forever* to host it.

    What I wish they would do now is admit that mobile is dead and continue rolling back the mobile-first user interface in Windows 10. No one wants VB6-era apps, but IMO they're moving too slowly in undoing what was done with Win8.

    1. YARR

      I don't think MS will be abandoning UWP because Store apps are the future for Windows 10s which is their answer to Chromebooks. A few tweaks to the Windows 10 UI might be possible, if there is widespread demand for specific changes.

      Personally I like the UI, but I think they should concentrate on fixing the bugs and make all their apps consistent before adding new features. Making zero telemetary an option would be desirable too.

      As for Windows Mobile, if I'd known there was a WileyFox handset coming I might have bought one. Why didn't TheReg tell us?!

  15. Kev99

    A computer related company denying something has as much worth as a politician denying something. Whatever is being denied you can count on the opposite being true.

    1. Kristian Walsh Silver badge

      Whatever is being denied you can count on the opposite being true.

      Well they're doing the opposite of denial here: basically claiming that Windows 10 Mobile is finished, so what to make of that? Certainly, there's still lots of multiply-sourced rumours concerning Microsoft's hardware division, Qualcomm, the Snapdragon 835, and x86 emulation that need to be resolved.

      My feeling is that Windows 10 Mobile is "dead" simply because the regular Windows 10 build is going to extend to portable, ARM-based, LTE-connected devices, with third-party Win32 app support through emulation. If it does that, there's really not much else that's unique to the "Mobile" branch of the OS except voice calls, which just an app.

  16. FrankAlphaXII

    "Microsoft had released Windows 10 code for both desktop (x86/ia64)"

    Dafuq do you mean by that? I can't recall any IA-64 Win 10 releases, at least not any available to the public or to MS' "insider" beta program.

    IA-64 is Itanium which MS hasn't supported in quite a while (Windows XP and Win Server 2008). So, did you mean x86_64? Even then it wouldn't be completely correct because MS stubbornly calls it x64.

    I really hope it was just an oversight by the editors knowing that it was getting toward Beer O'Clock when this got posted, because otherwise its just sad.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: "Microsoft had released Windows 10 code for both desktop (x86/ia64)"

      Microsoft 'stubbornly' calls it by it's correct name - AMD64, in the system directories at least, their own branding of the architecture is their own thing..

  17. Mike Lewis

    Microsoft is like Trump

    Evil but also incompetent which limits the damage.

  18. Mikel

    Osborne Maneuver

    "Perhaps instead of reiterating that W10M is a dead end, Microsoft could show what follows? It clearly doesn't feel ready to do that just yet. "

    Two things:

    1)Non disparagement clauses in contracts are enforceable, and pretty much are mandatory when you're trying to sell a partner on sinking their own treasure into your platform.

    2)After Elop's excellent job crushing Nokia's potential, the Osborne Maneuver is front of mind. This is where you tell your customer that he would be stupid to buy your product becquse it's obsolete, while standing in a warehouse full of said obsolete product that you desperately need to sell.

  19. gryff
    Pint

    Whilst I'm on my high horse..

    ...I remember a video from MS to Nokia about how great WinPho 7 was, starring Joe Belfiore if I recall..

    My reaction was: "They know nothing about phones. Based on internal lessons learned there are serious use case failures throughout that video."

    (e.g. camera key always active = battery drain + lots of black photos from inside pockets, bags...)

    Here we are seven years and €$6billion+ later and Microsoft still knows nothing about mobiles and phone UIs.

    How we laughed...time for a beer.

  20. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    If one of the reasons Windows mobile didn't take off is the lack of apps. Why doesn't MS allocate part of its marketing budget to pay independent developers for making apps that are missing and needed.

    1. Adrian 4 Silver badge

      That's a good idea. In fact, it's such a good idea that they've already done it. Extensively.

      Apparently, it only works well enough to get a phone off the 'completely useless' list. It doesn't actually make it attractive.

    2. Anonymous Bullard

      pay independent developers for making apps that are missing and needed.

      They did!

      - They rewarded people $100 per app (4 or 5 max)

      - Those with established iOS/Android apps where offered $10,000 (some where offered the cost) for a port

      - Microsoft themselves wrote some of the "killer" apps.

      It was catch-22: no apps = no users, and no users = no apps.

      The actual development process for win mobile was shockingly bad, so that didn't help either.

  21. This post has been deleted by its author

  22. MT Field

    I still think that the US Govt should have used anti-trust legislation to break MS up into separate companies for the desktop OS business and the applications business.

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