back to article 1,000 jobs on the line at BAE Systems' Lancashire plants – reports

BAE Systems, maker of military machinery, is to slash more than 1,000 jobs, according to reports, with most roles affected at its Warton plant in Lancashire, England – the main factory that builds the Eurofighter Typhoon. While nominally a multinational aircraft, the Typhoon is effectively a BAE design from top to bottom and …

  1. wolfetone Silver badge

    "...upcoming potential deal with Saudi Arabia. The Saudis already fly a relatively large number of Typhoons, as can be seen by looking up serial numbers ZK060 onwards on an unofficial UK military aircraft serial number database."

    You can also see them in the skies above Yemen dropping bombs.

    1. tiggity Silver badge

      .. Maybe

      If the Saudis stop buying our weapons the UK govt might actually start criticizing them for their human rights breaches, war mongering and support & financing of terrorist groups.

      Currently it seems no matter how vile a regime, as long as you keep bunging a bit of cash to blighty (and a few nice backhanders / perks) then not a word is said against you by the govt.

      Bloodmoney.

      1. kain preacher Silver badge

        Re: .. Maybe

        "If the Saudis stop buying our weapons the UK govt might actually start criticizing them for their human rights breaches, war mongering and support & financing of terrorist groups."

        And piss of the yanks ?? nope.

      2. ProppedUp

        Re: .. Maybe

        The Saudi state doesn't finance terrorists; there are individuals in the Royal Family who do, but that's not the same thing as state policy.

        The point of selling them weapons is strategic. Sell them weapons, they become critically dependent on us [US, France, Germany]. In effect, it means they can't go to war without our permission.

        Yemen is a proxy war with with Shia Iran. What is Saudi meant to do, exactly? Leave the Iranian regime, an enemy state, to gain a foothold in a neighbouring country?

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "You can also see them in the skies above Yemen dropping bombs."

      Only the most dedicated of plane spotters would take you up on that offer.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Joke

    Hey don't knock it...

    ...women will be allowed to drive, so it's fine to sell arms them now.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: [Saudi] women will be allowed to drive, so it's fine to sell arms them now.

      Ah, but are they allowed to fly advanced military aircraft?

      1. MonkeyCee Silver badge

        Re: [Saudi] women will be allowed to drive, so it's fine to sell arms them now.

        "Ah, but are they allowed to fly advanced military aircraft?"

        Yup, Mariam al-Mansuri certainly is.

    2. ProppedUp

      Re: Hey don't knock it...

      You say that but it's only because of the West's relationship with Saudi Arabia that we've been able to pressure and convince them to change the law on women driving. Small potatoes here, but a significant change for the better there.

  3. Matthew Smith

    How to solve Brexit.

    We might be able to sell abroad as easily, but theres 2000 skilled hands to work in the fields of the Lancashire agricultural industry.

    1. Commswonk Silver badge

      Re: How to solve Brexit.

      2000 skilled hands to work in the fields of the Lancashire agricultural industry

      As a general rule I try to ignore "Brexit" postings irrespective if their being for or against, but IMHO yours demonstrates simple bad taste and thus warrants a response.

      You might care to consider that the scale of the job losses is such that it is unlikely that they can be achieved by waiting until people retire, and skilled employees are going to find themselves without the work that was providing them with an income to pay their mortgages and all their other bills.

      BAE Systems is the major employer in the area, so a significant loss of jobs is going to have a significant impact on the town of Warton and the surrounding area. Whatever anyone thinks about selling military aircraft to some regimes this loss of jobs is deeply regrettable. The UK doesn''t make enough "things" now so making fewer of them can hardly be seen as good.

      1. wolfetone Silver badge

        Re: How to solve Brexit.

        "Whatever anyone thinks about selling military aircraft to some regimes this loss of jobs is deeply regrettable."

        How is it regrettable? For it to be regrettable it means there's a choice to not partake in it. But we have, we are, and we're gladly turning a blind eye to whats going on.

        You're upset about 1,000 jobs in this country but you couldn't give a toss to the hundreds of thousands of people affected by those planes dropping bombs illegally.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: How to solve Brexit.

          You're upset about 1,000 jobs in this country but you couldn't give a toss to the hundreds of thousands of people affected by those planes dropping bombs illegally.

          Looking at the mis-governed shithole that is Yemen, I really don't care if Arabs bomb Arabs there. In the same way that they wouldn't give a toss if we were at war with Belgium. In fact, let's try that. Declare war on Belgium, and see what reaction we get. That'd liven up a week that's looking a bit dull.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: How to solve Brexit.

        'The UK doesn''t make enough "things" now so making fewer of them can hardly be seen as good.'

        Being not of the UK, I can't help think that the stuff that you lot make as being overly complicated and not good for purpose (cars etc), Like the IT Crowds Fire Extinguisher.

        On the other hand there has been a history of some damned fine computer goods.

        It sounds like your heading for a hard Brexit. I think it will bring out the best in you.

        B-)

        Good Luck!

        1. Anonymous Blowhard

          Re: How to solve Brexit.

          "Being not of the UK, I can't help think that the stuff that you lot make as being overly complicated and not good for purpose (cars etc)"

          I think you'll find that a lot of things made in the UK are definitely fit for purpose; like the Mercedes F1 car, made in Brackley, which is powered by a Mercedes engine, made in Brixworth. Some competitor products seem to be a bit less reliable though...

    2. Doogie Howser MD

      Re: How to solve Brexit.

      What the fuck has this got to do with Brexit?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: How to solve Brexit.

        What the fuck has this got to do with Brexit?

        That the Germans, Spanish and Italians will have their primary fighter aircraft built by a non-EU country soon?

        1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

          Re: How to solve Brexit.

          What the fuck has this got to do with Brexit?

          Because we can sell the planes to the new East-India company for use in re-taking India

        2. Starace
          Alert

          Re: How to solve Brexit.

          That the Germans, Spanish and Italians will have their primary fighter aircraft built by a non-EU country soon?

          I guess the other factories bolting planes together and doing development work (like the one in Bavaria) must have been a figment of someone's imagination.

          BAE are a partner company, it's an absolute fantasy to to suggest they were the the only people building the planes or were responsible for more than a percentage of the thing in terms of design or otherwise.

          And it's fucking lazy for someone to write a story suggesting it.

          I bet the one crew who won't be seeing cutbacks are the bunch at NETMA. Probably just bigger bonuses.

          1. werdsmith Silver badge

            Re: How to solve Brexit.

            Eurofigher Typhoon came about as a development of the British Aerospace EAP.

        3. Lars Silver badge
          Happy

          Re: How to solve Brexit.

          "That the Germans, Spanish and Italians will have their primary fighter aircraft built by a non-EU country soon?".

          You don't seriously believe it's all British built do you.

          You should also not take this one sentence:

          "While nominally a multinational aircraft, the Typhoon is effectively a BAE design from top to bottom and under the sovereign* control of the UK.", too seriously.

          https://www.eurofighter.com/about-us

          With only the 33% share BAE has, I wouldn't pay much attention to "under the sovereign control of the UK". (Airbus 46% and Leonardo 21%.)

          (I am not sure one could say that about BAE either).

          An interesting and a very long story, the Wiki to your help.

          Will it survive, for instance, the assault from Rafaele, interestingly they have been able to sell both to Egypt and India.

          Sadly I have come to realize some Brits have this overly developed ability to "look at the bright side", like Mike Richards with "Not a widely-known fact, but the UK is the world's second largest aerospace nation after the US". Complete bull.

          https://forums.theregister.co.uk/forum/2/2017/09/28/britain_boeing_bombardier_brouhaha/

          * sovereign, the Brexit link of course.

        4. kinrossian

          Re: How to solve Brexit.

          "That the Germans, Spanish and Italians will have their primary fighter aircraft built by a non-EU country soon?"

          The German, Spanish, Italian Eurofighters are assembled each in their own country.

        5. Sirius Lee

          Re: How to solve Brexit.

          What the are you folks on about? Does it get you off to conflate concepts? Do you think it advances the cause? It's 'Eurofighter' not 'EUfighter'. Britain, whether it is in the EU or not, will continue to be in Europe. And NATO.

          Spain and Germany can choose to build their own fighter aircraft but what's the point? Germany has world leading businesses making cars not jets. Spain needs to find a way to provide millions of youth jobs not a few thousand jobs for skilled workers. France would love to build a jet for it's vision of an EU military force but it also needs to focus on creating jobs. Macron's suggestion of building an EU military force has not been welcomed with rapturous enthusiasm in other capitals especially in Berlin which knows its people would be picking up the bill and, as I mentioned, Germany builds cars.

        6. ZanzibarRastapopulous

          Re: How to solve Brexit.

          > "That the Germans, Spanish and Italians will have their primary fighter aircraft built by a non-EU country soon?"

          They already buy loads of kit from the yanks.

      2. HAL-9000

        Re: How to solve Brexit.

        'What the fuck has this got to do with Brexit?' :

        In all honesty probably not a great deal.

        Oh the irony, jobs in brexit central heavily dependent on contracts to build the <u>eurofighter</u> typhoon, it'll be more brexit related when Nissan make their announcement. That said, it is no laughing matter, 1000 jobs directly plus probably many more indirectly from service sector, and external contractors.

        https://www.eurofighter.com/

      3. ddeasy

        Re: How to solve Brexit.

        I hope that the poster had their tongue in cheek whilst posting about 750 highly skilled electronics and engineering workers retraining for the agriculture sector. It is however, very relevant to the situation England is facing with Brexit.

        To quote from an article titled "The false promise of a free-trade paradise for Brexit Britain" by Nick Clegg.

        "Brexit ministers have argued that, far from creating risk, leaving the EU will unlock growth by freeing us to sign trade agreements with whomsoever we please."

        Bear in mind that at the time the article was written 15% of total UK trade was with countries that are neither members of the EU, nor covered by an EU trade agreement.

        Whilst it is very sad to hear about the job losses they illustrate quite clearly the risks that we are facing trying to expand the percentage of trade outside Europe.

        1. Captain Badmouth
          Coat

          Re: How to solve Brexit.

          "Whilst it is very sad to hear about the job losses they illustrate quite clearly the risks that we are facing trying to expand the percentage of trade outside Europe."

          You seem to suggest that the firm is responding to the possibility of a "hard" Brexit, yes?

          Perhaps they've had a tip-off that such a political possibility is on the cards.

          Mine's the one with the Irish passport in the pocket...

    3. nsld

      Re: How to solve Brexit.

      Comrade Corbyn has them earmarked for Glorious State Potato Farm Number 4.....

    4. Esme

      Re: How to solve Brexit.

      It'd be way better if the HM Govt decided that cancellng Blue Streak was a bad idea, decided to get the UK a serious home-grown space programme again, and asked BAE to build Skylon using engines built by Reaction engines. Thta'd be BAE jobs saved, Reaction engines with firm orders for the future, the UK with a native launch to LEO capability, and money coming in from abroad with kit purchases and launch contracts.

      But nooo, far better blowing billions on HS2... </sarcasm>

    5. streaky Silver badge

      Re: How to solve Brexit.

      The UK is at technical 100% employment, doubt workers such as these will have too many issues finding jobs.

      If you want to feel bad for somebody feel bad for the poorly educated populace of the country who can't compete with at and below minimum wage workers imported by a country of business that doesn't want to invest in the native population's education and training nor pay appropriate wages for somebody settled here for the long haul.

      Also it clearly has nothing to do with brexit, BAE Systems are firing on all cylinders.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Canada should be looking at European designed aircraft. Our dependence on US military equipment is not wise, as can be seen by following the politics of the orangutan.

    1. thames

      Canada is looking at 5 planes to replace the existing fleet: The F-35, the Super Hornet, Typhoon, Rafale, and Gripen.

      The F-35 is hobbled because the way the project is structured LM can't put work share promises in writing to tier 3 development partners such as Canada, and counting on verbal "assurances" about contracts being handed out fairly is more than a bit naive given the current political climate in Washington.

      Boeing are now in much official disfavour in Canada due to their attack on the Canadian aerospace industry. The Canadian government has been unequivocal about the issue, and unless Boeing reverses course they have ruled themselves out.

      The Gripen NG is a nice plane, but the delivery date puts it a bit too far out for Canada's current plans and its smaller user base makes it a bigger risk from a commercial perspective.

      That leaves both Typhoon and Rafale. The Typhoon is one of the world's top fighters, it has a proven muti-role capability with the current version (although air defence would be its primary role for Canada), and its ability to cruise at high speed for long distances with good fuel economy is a very attractive advantage from Canada's perspective (according to Canadian analysis purchase price of a fighter is only about 15% of the life time cost - fuel, maintenance, manpower, etc. are where the real costs exist).

      All 5 planes have the ability to do everything that Canada wants, they're the short list after having excluded the other possibilities (e.g. modernised F-15). From a purely technical perspective given what Canada wants the planes for, the Typhoon is probably superior to any of the others. However, since they're all "good enough", the final decision will likely be made based on which company gives the best guarantees of offsetting military contracts to Canadian suppliers. The Typhoon reps have told Canada they can make a very attractive offer from that perspective. I imagine Dassault (Rafale) may be able to match that.

      Canada ultimately wants a total of 88 planes (plus some sort of temporary interim solution to be delivered quickly until the permanent ones are delivered), which, should the Typhoon be selected, would make Canada the 4th largest operator of Typhoons after the UK, Germany, and Italy.

  5. David Pearce

    Canada and Saudi are both large countries where the limited range of the Typhoon is a nuisance

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      the limited range of the Typhoon

      Comparable to similar aircraft on similar duty, actually, since all obey the same laws of physics, so there's relatively little to choose between F22, Rafael, Grypen and Typhoon. The F35 is a heavyweight monster, with shite range. If you take a much bigger, heavier a/c like an F15 you'll have more internal fuel, but worse fighter performance, and higher overall fuel consumption.

      In all cases, you use drop tanks or air refueling if needed in combat.

      1. David Neil

        Range

        The US won't sell F22 to anyone, the production line stopped after only 180ish planes were delivered and there are already parts shortages.

        Canada uses the F/A18 Super Hornet for the most part and in terms of multirole it is probably better than the Typhoon or anything else on the market just now.

        1. WraithCadmus
          Flame

          Re: Range

          in terms of multirole it is probably better than the Typhoon

          Well, yes, Typhoon was primarily designed as an interceptor, multi-role it's always been a bit naff at best. Unless that's what you're driving at with your post and I have the wrong of the stick.

          Icon: Stand clear of jet wash

          1. David Neil

            Re: Range

            Exactly what I was getting at. The days of air forces having specialised air to air and air to ground are over as the financial reality bites (US excluded as they are a league of their own in terms of defence spending).

    2. Semtex451 Silver badge
      Coat

      Or just buy more and park them so as to cover the dead zones.

      Off to work in sales

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Funny...

    Word on the grapvine is that there's a few European countries which are looking for a Euro alternative to old F-15's/F-16's.

    I guess BAE has a better eye on their potential order book then we do, but it seems short sighted to ditch skilled manufacturing staff which are a bugger to replace and prevent you from scaling up quickly when a big order does come in.

    And the fact that BAE are ramping down production is going to turn off at least some of those potential buyers as it will mean greater time before their aircraft will get into production and eventually service.

    1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Re: Funny...

      But the deal for developed countries buying aircraft is that you build them in some marginal consituency in their country. So the Netherlands will buy Typhoons to replace F16s if you build some bit of them there.

  7. John Smith 19 Gold badge
    Unhappy

    Astonished BAe's CEO not been straight round to No 10 to have words with May.

    Handy ability for a CEO of a war tech company to have, isn't it?

    Here's the thing.

    Arms is always a boom-to-bust business with Cost+ (or Cost++ if it's a BAe product) looking to get some contract off another government for one thing and another.

    It's long been know as the most expensive £ for jobs industry in the world.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The unfortunate thing about this

    ..that our pacifist and human-rights minded commentards are overlooking, is that BAES really ought to have a steady flow of work from the UK government that meant that UK manufacturing didn't need to grovel to scumbags like the Saudis to keep going. So whilst 1,000 highly skilled workers for the chop, the traitorous clowns at the MoD are busy pissing money up the wall on Boeing P8s, Boeing CH47s, Boeing AH64s, Lockheed Martin F35s,, Boeing C17s, Boeing RC 135s, and an assortment of foreign made drones. And then the ungrateful bastards on the other side of the Atlantic try and push another few thousand UK workers onto the dole by pushing Bombardier out of business.

    Defence-fucking-procurement isn't fucking rocket science. It means understanding that you CAN get good value from foreign suppliers, you just can't TRUST the bastards. So the value (or capability advantage) really has to be pretty significant to make it worthwhile. Had the UK military been told "not a single order will be placed (you bastards) until the spec is finalised", and the MoD had considered the need for phased replacement of fighters, strike aircraft, transport, tankers, AEW, MRA, trainers, attach choppers, transport choppers, then we wouldn't be in this mess, and maybe we needn't have had to grovel to shitty regimes.

    Even now, the bastards of the MoD (under pressure from the cunts in government) are sharpening knives for another defence review. This time round it looks possible that EVERY SINGLE ONE of the Navy's capital ships will be retired and flogged to some foreign power. Lord knows what the Army and RAF will be hit with. I can remember when the Conservative party was the party that anybody interested in the military and national defence would trust. Now they're a bunch of gibbering, incompetent twats, who will happily destroy this country's military, and the industrial base that supports it. Fucking traitors. Under that feckless cow Theresa May I shouldn't be surprised.

    1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Re: The unfortunate thing about this

      Remember BAe is basically an American company.

      It relies on its partnerships with American aerospace to get the plum contracts. Mostly its job IS to get the MOD to buy Lockheed/Boeing etc so that it can get a part of those Lockheed/Boeing sales in the US

    2. Semtex451 Silver badge
      Thumb Up

      Re: The unfortunate thing about this

      Colourful. Passionate. Accurate.

      1. Commswonk Silver badge

        Re: The unfortunate thing about this

        Colourful. Passionate. Accurate.

        Perfectly correct. Pity it was delivered as a rant because that detracted from what was otherwise a valid and reasonable and reasoned post.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: The unfortunate thing about this

          Pity it was delivered as a rant because that detracted

          Mood I'm in, you can fuck off too!

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: The unfortunate thing about this

        Colourful. Passionate. Accurate.

        And ANGRY.

        SO FUCKING ANGRY THAT MERE BLOODY WORDS AND CAPITALS DON'T CAPTURE A TINY PERCENTAGE OF MY SPITTLE FLECKED RAGE! THE BASTARDS OF WESTMINSTER, I HATE THEM ALL! INCOMPETENT, LAZY, USELESS, TOSSERS!

        My grandfather (even as a civilian) was awarded a medal for his work on early airborne radar. My father trained at Pyestock before and unthanked career in the RAF, seeing experimental gas turbine technologies that are only now entering service (and I'm no spring chicken). There's more than a few others in the ancestry with decent military credentials. So this matters to me. But looking at the SHOWER OF PISS that currently are dismantling this country's military and its industrial base, all you can do is weep. And remember never to vote for them again, until they have a decent commitment to this country, its defence, and industry. Could be a long wait, but remember that if you "vote tactically" to keep Castro out, then you're guaranteeing strategic failure by rewarding the policies of the current Knobhead government.

        BASTARDS. SHALLOW, SHITHEADED, INEPT, DISHONEST BASTARDS.

        1. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken Silver badge

          Re: The unfortunate thing about this

          Don't hide behind innuendo and hyperbole; tell us how you really feel deep inside.

        2. Threlkeld

          Re: The unfortunate thing about this

          Er... as we have sold off our energy industry and our railways to foreign governments (so that the national interest has no champion), and our most successful chip design business to the Chinese, who are also funding and possibly constructing nuclear power plants, why get at all upset about our defence industry?

          For certain political parties seems to be possible to act against the national interest for profit, while assuming the mantle of patriotism and accusing other parties who opposed privatisation of being unpatriotic.

          And folk believe them.We get the government we deserve, I guess.

          1. John Smith 19 Gold badge
            Meh

            "why get at all upset about our defence industry?"

            Indeed.

            Was it not the blessed Maggie who said "The Market will provide."

            HMG basically has nothing approaching an actual "industrial strategy" except (more or less) let any company be bought by anyone who's got the money. That includes not prioritizing local companies over price, unlike those rascally furriners like the Fwench or the Jermans.

            Which may explain why most of the British water, gas and electricity and steel industries are heavily foreign owned.

            Incidentally how many of those foreign aircraft types have an equivalent mfg by BAe?

            1. Voyna i Mor Silver badge

              Re: "why get at all upset about our defence industry?"

              "Was it not the blessed Maggie who said "The Market will provide."

              "

              Thatcher never read Kipling, which is a pity.

              Gods of the Copybook Headings

              First verse:

              AS I PASS through my incarnations in every age and race,

              I make my proper prostrations to the Gods of the Market Place.

              Peering through reverent fingers I watch them flourish and fall,

              And the Gods of the Copybook Headings, I notice, outlast them all.

              Kipling wasn't an economist, but that didn't stop him from understanding economics and world affairs better than the entire current Front Benches (with the possible exception of Cable).

          2. Commswonk Silver badge

            Re: The unfortunate thing about this

            We get the government we deserve, I guess.

            An oft - repeated idea, but I fail to see why we (i.e. the voters) should get the blame. What past sins did we commit to have the sort of governments that we do? All we can do is put a cross in a box; as I said on a different thread a few days ago if all the candidates are dunderheads then dunderheads are elected. Not exclusively, perhaps, but in sufficient numbers to be highly damaging to UK national interests and the individual interests of the electors.

            In any case foreign & defence policies rarely if ever feature in election manifestos; far too specialist for electors to worry about.

            So - please - no more blaming the electorate. The defects are in those we elect, and the party we vote for matters not one jot; we have no choice but to elect fools.

            1. John Smith 19 Gold badge
              Coat

              "we have no choice but to elect fools."

              Unless of course you step forward and insure that a non-fool is at least an option?

              1. werdsmith Silver badge

                Re: "we have no choice but to elect fools."

                And remember never to vote for them again, until they have a decent commitment to this country, its defence, and industry.

                OK, well if I follow that instruction, at least it will save me a trip to the polling station. Because none of the parties are shaping up to do anything useful in that respect.

          3. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: The unfortunate thing about this

            Actually, we get the government we vote for.

            We're doomed.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: The unfortunate thing about this

      The Tory party managed to retire a lot of the kit we needed in the Falklands, it was only timing that meant we still had some of it left.

      What would you prefer to spend our taxes on, military kit, the NHS or keeping people on the dole?

    4. ddeasy

      Re: The unfortunate thing about this

      "I can remember when the Conservative party was the party that anybody interested in the military and national defence would trust. Now they're a bunch of gibbering, incompetent twats, who will happily destroy this country's military, and the industrial base that supports it."

      The really unfortunate thing about this is that it's not new. BAE Systems plays a prominent role in Nicolas Comfort's book "Surrender: How British industry gave up the ghost 1952-2012".

      Not an easy read and it's now five years out of date but it does illustrate the phrase "same old same old" very effectively.

  9. Cynic_999 Silver badge

    Europe

    Skilled British workers should emigrate to countries in Europe that have skilled jobs while they still can.

    1. Beau
      Happy

      Re: Europe

      An up vote for you sir.

      I'm just very pleased I did so, many years ago . Had some ups and downs over here. but never really wanted to move back to Little England. Now with (.....x) I'm so pleased I never did!

    2. frank ly Silver badge

      Re: Europe

      Or retrain as lawyers, bankers or accountants. No, sorry, forget bankers.

      1. Esme

        Re: Europe

        @frankly - I got made redundant recently and am now taking a degree in horticulture (YES! I've finally escaped the clutches of IT!). At least I'll be able to grow me own food if/when the UK economy collapses due to the dunderheadedness of HM Govt.

  10. CB_85

    "Skilled British workers should emigrate to countries in Europe that have skilled jobs while they still can."

    Completed my PhD in chemistry.. no jobs. Emigrated... Found a really good job in Semiconductors manufacturing. Not many of them in the UK. (Remember Siemens North Tyneside anyone?).

    Bottom line.. UK tax payers paid for my nearly 10 years in Uni only for the government to de-prioritize manufacturing to the extent that the "service economy" was the only viable choice (but not for me as I'm a technical type person).I had no choice but he best thing was that I finished my studies without any debt....

    Parting Salutation "So long and thanks for all the fish".

    PS: The sun shines more here than back home..

  11. David Neil
    Thumb Down

    Job losses confirmed on BBC

    750 at Wharton

    http://www.bbc.com/news/business-41566841

    Thoughts with all involved

  12. This post has been deleted by a moderator

  13. John Smith 19 Gold badge

    The answer to "we have no choice but to elect fools."

    The UK electoral system means the only person who's selection you can control is your direct MP.

    So forget "the big picture."

    Choose an issue you really care about.

    Which party supports that the best?

    If <incumbent> vote for them else vote for runner up to get them out.

    IRL your choices are a)Keep the incumbent in b)Remove them.

    The odds on bet is the runner up last time. Under the "First person to turn up" system the UK has tactical voting is pretty much the only option you have.

    Remember, even the 26000 Labour majority in Glasgow can be toppled, with a sufficiently large sense of outrage, as the SNP had over MP's expenses.

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