back to article Stack Overflow + Salary Calculator = your worth

Developers may be no more curious about salaries than any other set of workers, but their high degree of variation in terms of education, skillset and experience – not to mention the often ill-defined nature of their work – gives them ample reason to be curious about pay among their peers. Stack Overflow, a community site …

  1. Dan 55 Silver badge
    Meh

    No server side development, no Unix

    Meh.

    1. Marco Fontani

      Re: No server side development, no Unix

      No server side development

      Well, there's Javascript which can be used as a server-side development language

      /sigh

      1. Dan 55 Silver badge

        Re: No server side development, no Unix

        Well, there's Javascript which can be used as a server-side development language

        Sir, JavaScript on the server is like a dog walking on its hind legs. It is not done well, but you are surprised to find it done at all.

    2. OldCrow

      Re: No server side development, no Unix

      No Embedded or Driver development either.

      Are we getting silo'd in our branches?

      I mean - I can see how Stack Overflow is would be biased towards Web development, seeing as they are a web-based entity.

      But... I do C/C++ for ARM Cortex-M MCUs so small that they usually don't have an OS. But whenever I happen to meet software engineers from other disciplines and happen to tell them as much, half the time their immediate reaction is bewilderment; they can't imagine a system without a full-blown OS or a file-system.

      I can see how Python could be rising in popularity - among web developers. But I've yet to see a Python compiler for an ARM M0+.

      ..Then again, I have written an HTTP server for a Cortex-M. ...twice.

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: No server side development, no Unix

        Stack Overflow is would be biased towards Web development, seeing as they are a web-based entity.

        I can see how S.O. would be biased toward silicon designers since they use silicon based semiconductors in all their machines

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: No server side development, no Unix

          Shame that form was so horribly broken then. How embarrassing.....

        2. OldCrow
          FAIL

          Re: No server side development, no Unix

          @ Yet Another Anonymous coward

          Ooh! I didn't know S.O. baked their own silicon. Tell me more? </sarcasm>

          I imagine that S.O. maintains their own servers and codebase. Accordingly, they would have more sysadmins and Ruby developers (ref. Atwood's blog) to bounce things off of, than C/C++ folk.

          Further, the algorithm modeling salary development is going to be based on data from U.S., so the maximums are going to differ from e.g. U.K.. Further, unless they paid someone for better data, the (croud-sourced) data-mass that they do have is going to be rather heavily reflecting the S.O. power-user base. Since nobody else bothers filling the questionnaire.

      2. This post has been deleted by its author

        1. Hans 1 Silver badge
          Joke

          Re: No server side development, no Unix

          I loved writing code for bare metal.

          I prefer paper, all those coins end up weighing their bit!

      3. Lysenko

        Re: But I've yet to see a Python compiler for an ARM M0+

        @OldCrow.

        Since you asked: CircuitPython

        The atmel-samd branch supports the ATSAMD21G18 which is M0+. Various other architectures as well. I mostly use it (or rather MicroPython, it's upstream parent) on STM32M4s.

      4. matjaggard

        Re: No server side development, no Unix

        Written an HTTP server for Cortex M twice? Here's a wheel, can you invent something for my car to put on the axels please?

        1. OldCrow

          Re: No server side development, no Unix

          @ matjaggard

          >Written an HTTP server for Cortex M twice? Here's a wheel, can you invent something for my car to put on the axels please?

          So we can safely assume that you've never made software for mass-produced small objects with price and/or safety constraints?

          1. annodomini2

            Re: No server side development, no Unix

            "@ matjaggard

            >Written an HTTP server for Cortex M twice? Here's a wheel, can you invent something for my car to put on the axels please?

            So we can safely assume that you've never made software for mass-produced small objects with price and/or safety constraints?

            "

            Or two different companies

    3. evadnos nibor

      Re: No server side development, no Unix

      No embedded.

      Pah!

    4. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Meh

      Re: No server side development, no Unix

      and rating 'Web Devs' as earning MORE than desktop application developers? W.T.F. ??

      that goes DOUBLE when you look at the quality of web development these days. Or are they assuming that all desktop applications are UWP/C-pound/dot-NOT (which is a pretty worthless skill set in my opinion)

      I do embedded and kernel-level stuff (and all that other stuff when I have to) so, meh.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: No server side development, no Unix

        Average salaries are interesting but then so is the distribution. Web Devs may on average be earning more than desktop app developers however I have managed to earn considerably more than that average my entire career due to a mix of language skills, flexibility (intellectual not physical) and domain knowledge. You need that variability of income in order for it to be worth making an effort to exceed the norm. If all jobs pay roughly the same in a sector it all becomes a bit meh.

  2. Rob Gr

    The UK salaries seem totally wide of the mark, as evidenced by the adverts immediately below the calculator, all of which fall below the lowest percentile.

    1. wolfetone Silver badge

      We're absolute mugs working in the UK, especially those in web development it seems.

      1. Rich 11 Silver badge

        We're absolute mugs working in the UK, especially those in web development it seems.

        It seems I am only 40% as valued as they like to tell me I am at every staff development review.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "all of which fall below the lowest percentile"

      Correct. Massively below I'm sorry to say.....

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Note that the British levels appear to hit a ceiling *very* quickly- the figure for twenty years experience is barely higher than that for five, unlike the US.

      This would seem to confirm the general trend that the UK as a whole- or at least England- does not value or encourage technical and engineering-based skills and employment. But then, what did you expect from a nation more obsessed with making money from watching house prices inflate ludicrously than actually doing something useful?

      1. This post has been deleted by its author

      2. Field Commander A9

        What else would you expect from a country that would abandon it's allies time and time again when they're in the most dire situation?

    4. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      as evidenced by the adverts immediately below the calculator, all of which fall below the lowest percentile.

      So the subset of employers who have unfilled vacancies that they are so desperate to fill that they have to run web ads fall below the likely range of salaries for that specialty?

      Is there an economist in the house ?

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      but it's "median" so I take those numbers with a pinch of salt.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    UK. With my level of skills and experience, if I asked for the salary this tool quoted me in an interview, I'd be laughed out of the building.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Perhaps the comments show why management are always talking about a talent shortage and never paying to solve it...

    2. Hans 1 Silver badge

      UK. With my level of skills and experience, if I asked for the salary this tool quoted me in an interview, I'd be laughed out of the building.

      I think it is the salary you accept that causes laughter as you leave the premises ... sadly ... bastards.

    3. Warm Braw Silver badge

      if I asked for the salary this tool quoted me in an interview, I'd be laughed out of the building

      Interestingly, the more skills you add, the lower the salary seems to get - though not by much.

      And on my tablet the site seemed very reluctant to let me add more roles or skills without pressing submit and back for each addition. Perhaps they're not paying their developers enough...

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Okay, so I put in my details, and it gave me a result where the lower end salary was *significantly* higher than I'm earning.

    So in theory, according to Stackoverflow, I'm being massively underpaid.

    But the thing is, I've done the research; I know what the jobs market is like right now, and I can tell you that even the lower figure suggested by SO's calculator is unrealistic -- the job available out there (even the ones advertised on SO itself) simply do not offer salary figures that high.

    I suspect that the SO calculator is biased based on the kind of people who answered their survey. I would guess that higher paid developers were more likely to respond to the survey than low-paid ones, and thus the figures are skewed. Or possibly it's intentionally overstating it in order to inflate egos and expectations.

    1. Hans 1 Silver badge
      Happy

      So in theory, according to Stackoverflow, I'm being massively underpaid.

      Well, at your next review, I think you can claim to have found an "independent" salary assessment tool that, being on SO, has to be taken into account .... industry standard ... feel happy ;-) Get them!

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  7. FuzzyWuzzys Silver badge
    Facepalm

    DBA

    Oh bloody hell, the DBAs are now less valuable than the sysadmins?! Not so long ago we were the golden boys and girls of IT, everybody wanted to be a DBA...oh wait hang on!

    1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Re: DBA

      DBA you don't do it for the money - it's about the lifestyle !

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: DBA

      That's because there's fewer sysadmins due to "cloud"

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I said I was a WebSphere expert and the site gave me a NullPointerException.

    1. Dan 55 Silver badge

      I had a problem so I decided to program in Java. Now I have a ProblemFactory.

      The old ones are the best.

  9. Uncle Slacky Silver badge
    FAIL

    Wot, no Fortran!?

    ...and ludicrously high pay scales that certainly don't reflect my experiences.

    1. Hans 1 Silver badge
      Joke

      Re: Wot, no Fortran!?

      Where is your time machine, may I have a go ?

  10. 0laf Silver badge

    $ to pound £

    SysAdmin with 15yr experience = £79k

    Lol the head of IT isn't even on that. Fuck, the director above him isn't even on that.

    Where do they get this pish from? Are they doing an Apple and changing $ to £ and leaving the number the same?

    1. Hans 1 Silver badge

      Re: $ to pound £

      Lol the head of IT isn't even on that

      Where do you work ??????

    2. future research

      Re: $ to pound £

      I was going to post the same thing about exchange rate.

      It seems if you divide all numbers by 2 you may get a little closer to reality.

    3. Blank Reg

      Re: $ to pound £

      If that's typical for the UK then I see little incentive to move there, I first started making that much about 15 years ago.

    4. Hans 1 Silver badge

      Re: $ to pound £

      Actually, I came across this:

      http://www.aplitrak.com/?adid=ZGVjbGFuci42Mzk4NC40NzA3QHNlbml0b3IuYXBsaXRyYWsuY29t

      Manchester airport, who would want work at Manchester airport?

      £22k-£27k ? Not a joke.

      Then comes the reason:

      * Scripting knowledge (desirable).

      One moment ... how can you even administer servers without scripting knowledge ?

      I anticipate a lot of interest in this position so apply NOW to avoid disappointment!

      Wow, just wow ... the pisstake ...

      1. wolfetone Silver badge
        Coat

        Re: $ to pound £

        From the advert:

        "THIS REALLY IS A COMPANY THAT LOOKS AFTER THEIR STAFF! "

        *Looks at Salary*

        "£22k-£27k "

        *Looks at headline grabbing title*

        "THIS REALLY IS A COMPANY THAT LOOKS AFTER THEIR STAFF! "

        *Get coat, goes home.*

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: $ to pound £

        It's in Manchester. I'm not saying there aren't interesting jobs nor smart people in Manchester, but virtually the only place you are going to get decent salaries in tech is in London. Our top sysadmins are on about £80k, same as our top developers. Head of IT, I've seen his Camden townhouse, he's getting at least 3 times that.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: $ to pound £

          Have to agree with you on that, my last two roles have been London then Birmingham, though I work from home but I wouldn't get anywhere near my salary with a job up in these there parts.

        2. Lyndon Hills 1

          Re: $ to pound £

          It's in Manchester.

          I think the industry sector is also relevant. You see a lot of very well paid jobs in London, the best paid are in banking/finance, and many of them require finance experience as well as tech skills (also degrees but that's a different article).

          I'd say it's inevitable that if you say you live in London, and you don't work in finance, the salary calculator will suggest you're massively underpaid. At least it did for me......

    5. phuzz Silver badge

      Re: $ to pound £

      It seemed to think I could be making at least twice what I'm currently on, which is pish quite frankly.

  11. MCMLXV

    Help us improve the calculator

    "Confidentially share your salary with us, and we'll use it to improve the model.

    Your salary is private. It will not be shown on your profile or shared with recruiters."

    Equifax...

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Well..

    Considering my crushing disappointment and unrewarding day to day job experience with old language which I do like, in a company with its soul ripped out, in the area I'm in I'm quite fortunate with my salary. Of course the results look inflated no one would pay that in the north England. Programming Sucks ™

  13. malfeasance

    Unrealistic. Of course.

    What are your motivations for doing Dev. If it's money then I would venture to suggest youre in the wrong job.

    If it's to work on interesting problems with the people who think like you and make it fun. Then rock on youre in my team (My corporate will burn you but I still want to work with you).

  14. JamesPond
    Angel

    What will I get with BBC Basic, COBOL, PASCAL and C++ ?

    Showing my age now. Moved on from programming and having to keep up with all the newest trendy laguages to project management. Nothing ever changes....er apart from actually changing things.

  15. Paul Hovnanian Silver badge
    Boffin

    All we need to know

    Do you use tabs or spaces?

  16. Oengus Silver badge

    What about...

    Mainframe (IBM S/390) Assembler???

    RPG/II/III/IV??

    Fortan - haven't used it in more years than I care to remember... (first language I learnt)

    More other obscure languages than I care to count...

  17. eldakka Silver badge

    Silge said the Salary Calculator covers five different countries – Canada, France, Germany, the UK, and the US

    Would have been nice to know that before providing the link.

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