back to article Oracle to shutter most Euro hardware support teams

Oracle is cutting costs by shifting pan-European hardware support to Romania in a move that could see hundreds of existing staff made redundant, multiple insiders have told The Register. The process of winding up the in-country operations started in recent weeks, though the deadline for migrating the support seems to differ …

  1. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

    In other words

    If you have ANY Oracle Hardware in Europe then it is time to Sell, Sell, Sell, Sell.

    You will be lucky to get any support in future.

    Contracts? 4-hour support that costs the earth? more than likely not worth the paper it is written on.

    1. Down not across Silver badge

      Re: In other words

      If you have ANY Oracle Hardware in Europe then it is time to Sell, Sell, Sell, Sell.

      You will be lucky to get any support in future.

      There are no shortage on third parties offering hardware and software support for Sun^WOracle products.

      I suspect many will heed your advice on selling out, which should yield plenty of perfectly serviceable kit/spares on fleabay.

    2. This post has been deleted by its author

    3. TVU Silver badge

      Re: In other words

      "You will be lucky to get any support in future".

      ^ This. Far fewer staff will mean a worse customer service and ultimately fewer customers in the long run. What with the other recent lay offs, Oracle seem to set on a self destructive policy and if I had any Oracle shares, I'd be selling them right now.

      As an aside, I think it's a great pity that Sun Microsystems wasn't bought out by another company.

  2. Wensleydale Cheese
    Unhappy

    institutional and cultural ‘memory'

    Dale Vile ... said that established support teams accumulate experience, understanding and a collective knowledge of "tips, tricks and traps" that could not easily be passed on outside of the existing environment.

    "The concern is losing this institutional and cultural ‘memory', particularly for more specialist teams. This can make the difference between an efficient peer-to-peer support experience for the customer, and script-driven hell, no matter how well-trained the outsourced resources happen to be."

    This. Absolutely this.

    1. Pascal Monett Silver badge
      Trollface

      Re: institutional and cultural ‘memory'

      Uhhh, what is "institutional and cultural memory" ? We don't need that crap, we have procedures.

  3. werdsmith Silver badge

    Do Oracle still acquire new customers?

    If the answer is yes, then why?

    Do Oracle's existing customers still have Oracle on their longer term road map?

    If the answer is yes, then why?

    1. Flakk Silver badge

      Do Oracle's existing customers still have Oracle on their longer term road map?

      If the answer is yes, then why?

      Because it would cost more to implement a risky migration to a less expensive, more efficient platform than it would be to just stay put?

      It's not a good answer, mind you, but it is an altogether predictable one.

      1. TVU Silver badge

        "Because it would cost more to implement a risky migration to a less expensive, more efficient platform than it would be to just stay put?"

        But the way Oracle's going right more - higher charges and worse services - will ultimately mean that cost/benefit ratio regarding migration will inevitably change and it certainly won't be to Oracle's advantage.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Running joke

        What is Safra Catz's job?

        Calculate how much it would cost for customers to migrate to another platform, deduct $5. Charge that to that customer.

    2. colinb

      Exactly, ERP lock-in i can understand and they have a huge product list but would not touch them with a barge pole.

      Unless of course they fly me to Las Vegas and ply me with drink, drugs and sports tickets. Which is the only way i can imagine they still make sales.

      1. kain preacher Silver badge

        You left out hookers and or brown paper bags full of cash

        1. Alistair Silver badge
          Windows

          @kain p.

          Hookers and brown paper bags full of cash are reserved for legislative modification, not for closing sales deals. Please read the executive employee guidelines again, or your share vesting will be moved out 3 quarters.

          1. kain preacher Silver badge

            But but I'm trying close the multi agency deal. I'm trying to be the back end for HMRC ,NHS and the border agency.

            Psst I'm working on Oracle/sap deal that will run on HP itanium.

      2. VinceH Silver badge
        Coat

        "Unless of course they fly me to Las Vegas and ply me with drink, drugs and sports tickets. Which is the only way i can imagine they still make sales."

        I get it. Buying from them would be the only way to stop the torture.

    3. Down not across Silver badge

      Do Oracle's existing customers still have Oracle on their longer term road map?

      If the answer is yes, then why?

      Most likely yes.

      It wouldn't surprise me of many SPARC/Solaris shops wouldn't have virtualised on LDOMs and containers. The T4 and T5 series have pretty nice support for virtualising Solaris environments in a resilient way.

      It is easy to forget that many large corporations (telcos especially come to mind) have long history on Sun hardware and may have bespoke software written specifically for the platform with proven and predictable performance.

      Of course it no doubt could be migrated, but why risk it. As I mentioned virtualisation options on later T-series enables sweating the assets lot better than some of the older hardware so migrating onto x86 for example may not yield such great savings.

      1. Ian47

        It would have to be mostly Sun hardware for Telco's as Oracle dropped -48VDC so very quickly - with the B6000 being the last standing item and even then you were still getting 6+ year old blades to run in them.

    4. This post has been deleted by its author

    5. boltar

      "If the answer is yes, then why?"

      I know this won't be a popular answer, but their core RDBMS is the best in the business for high end relational applications. There's a reason Sybase, Infomix and DB2 all fell by the wayside with only SQL Server trying to keep up.

      And no, NoSQL DBs are NOT a suitable replacement in most circumstances where data relationships matter and can be of N degree complexity. Trying to do even moderately complex data queries on Mongo is like pulling teeth from an angry lion.

    6. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Yes, Oracle is still in the long term plan. You put a technical and financial case forward for not using Oracle, it gets sent up the management hierarchy, at some point an Oracle rep gets involved, something happens, I have no idea what, I'm not suggesting anything untoward in any way, I'm 100% confident that everything follows the letter of the law, and then you use Oracle.

      1. AndyD 8-)₹

        Yes, been there done that. When told we were moving to Oracle we asked "database, development environment or both?" .... .... deer in headlights ..... errr...Forms and Reports.... Beaming Smile!

  4. Voland's right hand Silver badge

    The UK hardware support branch has more directors than other countries

    The UK hardware support branch has more directors than other countries

    Color me surprised. Very surprised.

    Apologies if you need to go and fetch the bucket to clean up the sarcasm that oozed out of the monitor and onto your desk.

  5. Jim 59

    "Oracle refused to comment. "

    Oracle declined to comment..

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: "Oracle refused to comment. "

      Oracle never comments.

      Their roadmap slides practically say "no comment!"

  6. J. R. Hartley Silver badge

    Sparc

    We hardly knew ye :'(

  7. Adelio

    Offshore support

    I dread having to ring ANY support anf get people NOT fron my country.

    Virgin, I am talking to you.

    There is nothing worst than trying to speak to someone where English is NOT their primary language and you are struggling to understand them and for them to understand you!

    1. jtaylor

      Re: Offshore support

      When I've worked with people in other regions, the cultural (and infrastructure) differences can be just as bad as language.

      Hell, even west-coast US versus east-coast US can inspire self-harm.

    2. WallMeerkat Bronze badge

      Re: Offshore support

      >"I dread having to ring ANY support anf get people NOT fron my country.

      >...

      >There is nothing worst than trying to speak to someone where English is NOT their primary language and

      >you are struggling to understand them and for them to understand you!"

      There is nothing worse than trying to read a comment from someone for whom English is their primary language, and struggling to understand them.

      (Actually there are many things worse, but you get the point)

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Offshore support

      Oracle are pushing something called a "cloud machine", which appears to be a bit of Oracle cloud that lives on their systems in your data center. It's apparently managed by Oracle, you just rent time/space on it like you would on their public cloud, but you know exactly where the data is stored, which helps with GDPR etc.

      Since the renter has no physical control over these Oracle-managed systems, how will having the support techs in Romania allow Oracle to fix problems on their systems in your DC in, say, Swindon?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Offshore support

        A DC in Swindon? Are Oracle in bed with Vodafone now?

        Anyway, the answer would be by Oracle getting YOUR onsite Hands and Eyes in YOUR DC to fix THEIR issue

        1. biolo

          Re: Offshore support

          Sun Micro have had business with Vodafone for a long time, I remember them shipping large numbers of systems to them back in the noughties. Whether they still have any business with them is another question.

      2. Tzctther

        Re: Offshore support

        A remote connection of course.

        They already do so when providing support for existing equipment.

    4. Tzctther

      Re: Offshore support

      Get over yourself.

      Learn Romanian if you feel so aggravated.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    SF.com to the rescue

    The thing about Romania is that a company is likely to get big tax breaks for moving operations there. That's why my employer decided to move most of their European support to Romania. Oh, and the staff costing around 1/7th of their Western European equivalent helped too.

    But don't worry, the Knowledge Management systems will sort everything out. Except when you try to explain to the moronagement that a typical customer's issue isn't a simple question that has a simple answer, they think you are spouting BS just to save your job.

    1. Jason Bloomberg Silver badge
      Trollface

      Re: SF.com to the rescue

      Tax breaks, cheap staff: That's why we need brexit, the business friendly low tax haven May dreams of, removal of workers rights, cuts in salary and in-work benefits. They'll be rushing back to Blighty soon enough.

      All together now: Happy days are here again...

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: SF.com to the rescue

        "That's why we need brexit, the business friendly low tax haven May dreams of, removal of workers rights, cuts in salary and in-work benefits. They'll be rushing back to Blighty soon enough."

        Other countries associated with but outside the EU like say Switzerland and Norway seem to have high wages and good working conditions. I'm not sure what makes you think it will be any different here. After all, the Conservatives raised the minimum wage way higher than Labour ever planned to!

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: SF.com to the rescue

          They also have higher taxation levels*, higher cost of living. Norway is oil rich, Switzerland has cash pouring in due to its banking.

          In return they plough more into "social" good, such as childcare ,public transport, education and general looking after the mind as well as the body.

          The UK? Fuck you Jack, I'm alright.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: SF.com to the rescue

            In return they plough more into "social" good, such as childcare ,public transport, education and general looking after the mind as well as the body.

            And how does that explain why Switzerland has one of the worst drug problems in Europe?

            Anyway, most workers in Geneva commute from France, where it's much cheaper to live.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: SF.com to the rescue

              "And how does that explain why Switzerland has one of the worst drug problems in Europe?"

              Drug death rates by population

              UK 19th

              Switzerland 59th

              http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/drug-use/by-country/

              Zurich 3rd cocaine use behind London and Antwerp

              https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/drug-capitals_zurich-is-europe-s-third-biggest-cocaine-hot-spot/42760246

              Feel free to take a look here as well. The UK is pretty much consistently "higher" ranked than Switzerland.

              https://www.globaldrugsurvey.com/

          2. Tzctther

            Re: SF.com to the rescue

            Also Switzerland and Norway don't have delusions of grandeur and don't have weapons of mass destruction, war plane carriers with no planes and other necessities of the world police wannabe.

  9. Dominion

    Oracle to shutter Solaris and SPARC

    FTFY.

  10. Howard Hanek Bronze badge
    Childcatcher

    Another Step

    .....toward an Oracleless future. I will miss their near mystical 'methodology'.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Another Step

      Nothing mystic about the "make Larry richer" methodology.

      He's had his plastic surgery, bought his yachts, planes, and islands, just needs to develop his Iron Man suit now.

      1. hplasm Silver badge
        Happy

        Re: Another Step

        "just needs to steal his Iron Man suit from Elon Musk now."

        FTFY

        1. Hans 1 Silver badge
          WTF?

          Re: Another Step

          just needs to steal his Iron Man suit from Elon Musk now.

          Elon has an Iron Man suit, I thought he loved his The Flash suit .

          ..

  11. This post has been deleted by its author

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The outsourcing to low cost countries like Romania and India is really only a temporary measure until Oracle can finally kill traditional onsite hardware and support and move everything to the Cloud. At which point Oracle won't need engineers in low cost countries either, only the local field engineers in each country DC to service the Cloud PDIT systems managed by the Oracle Cloud PDIT administrators. So if you are an Oracle engineer in India or Romania I'd get out soon if I were you as that boat won't sail long. There is no future and certainly no pay rises in that area, Oracle will now just use engineers as disposable cheap slave labour til they no longer need them.

    Also this final killing of old Sun products is clearly Mark Hurd's doing. This disgraced and Ex-HP CEO who axed many jobs at HP before he was kicked out and hated by his employees is now able to get his revenge by gutting and killing all the products of HP's old enemy and rival Sun Microsystems. Why on earth Larry chose this lunatic to succeed him as CEO so he can just trash everything is beyond me.

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    All support offshore

    It's not just Europe - according to our rep, they're moving all support to Romania, India and the USA. Asia/Pacific is not far from being done. Another Oracle customer was recently telling me they're even offshoring hardware spares. They were also telling me the Indian support is just hopeless. You're better off Googling your problems. So much for SLA's.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: All support offshore

      Oracle support was always hopeless, doesn't matter which country they were from. And I'm DBA 15 years. Can't say much about HW side coz we never used Sun but they used to know something (but not the first line, you have to achieve to be connected to their wisemen) only about their database, already on OS part, which they also theoretically supply and support, it's usually more effective to google your problem than ask them. I can imagine with HW it's only worse.

      I wonder what about Egypt, last couple of times I had contacts with Oracle support, they were always from Egypt. Why Romania, Egypt should be even cheaper.

POST COMMENT House rules

Not a member of The Register? Create a new account here.

  • Enter your comment

  • Add an icon

Anonymous cowards cannot choose their icon

Biting the hand that feeds IT © 1998–2019