back to article Apple: Our stores are your 'town square' and a $1,000 iPhone is your 'future'

Apple has summoned friendly press to its new Cupertino campus to christen the Steve Jobs Theater with the introduction of a new set of products to hit the shelves this Fall. CEO Tim Cook used the occasion to showcase updates to the AppleTV and Watch lines, while a new, eye-wateringly expensive iPhone model stole the show. …

  1. Bob Vistakin
    Facepalm

    These "new" iPhones

    Bezel-less screens, wireless charging and on screen home buttons. Wow, that's so innovative - where do they get their ideas from?

    1. ThomH Silver badge

      Re: These "new" iPhones

      No, you're wrong. The demoer used a from-offscreen-bottom swipe to dismiss the current application rather than an on-screen home button.

      So to answer your entirely-proper question: Palm.

    2. DougS Silver badge

      Re: These "new" iPhones

      This has been rumored for two years, before anyone else was shipping bezel-less phones. Not saying others copied Apple rumors but clearly this began the design process before any bezel-less Android phone shipped. Besides, it was a pretty obvious evolution after thinness and screen size had pretty much run their course.

      1. Triggerfish

        Re: These "new" iPhones

        This has been rumored for two years, before anyone else was shipping bezel-less phones

        Except for China, who has been chucking them out for a couple of years even at relatively budget level.

      2. d3vy Silver badge

        Re: These "new" iPhones

        "clearly this began the design process before any bezel-less Android phone shipped."

        Because android phones don't go through a design process before going into production and being shipped?

        Or are you suggesting that Apple take so long to design and build something that other companies can do it in a fraction of the time?

      3. rdhood

        Re: These "new" iPhones

        "Not saying others copied Apple rumors but clearly this began the design process before any bezel-less Android phone shipped."

        "Clearly"??? Not to me. You obviously have inside info on ALL of the major manufacturers design processes so that you can make this "CLEAR" conclusion. But, Apple fanboi, let me say this: the bezel-less design is an obvious goal, just as it was for monitors and TVs. OBVIOUS!

    3. macjules Silver badge

      Re: These "new" iPhones

      Is the reason why they cost so much because each iPhoneX comes with a particle of Steve Jobs' ashes?

      1. katx5h
        FAIL

        Re: These "new" iPhones

        Silly you...we all KNOW Steve rose from the dead.

      2. anothercynic Silver badge

        Re: These "new" iPhones

        You know, you might be on to something there... There is zero chance I am paying over a grand for a *phone*. If I wanted to do that, I'd be running about with a Vertu, *not* an Apple.

        *looks at and cradles iPhone 6s* Don't quit on me. Not for another 4 years. Please?

      3. This post has been deleted by its author

    4. Dr Mantis Toboggan
      Facepalm

      Re: These "new" iPhones

      A bit bizzare,. If you buy an iPhone 8, you are buying the new phone instantly obsoleted by the iPhone 10.

      If you buy the iPhone 10, you have to suffer no home button and a slow and frustrating Face unlock and a phone you can't hold without obscuring parts of the screen...

      iPhone 8 is iPhone 7 + android catch-up features from 2015

      iPhone 10 is Form over function.

      But all of the is apple all over. The first hundred thousand devices of course will be handed out as freebies to press, media influencers, and celebrities, to ensure its success, and all the plebs that buy one with real money will foot the bill. This is how it has always worked for Apple.

      1. werdsmith Silver badge

        Re: These "new" iPhones

        a phone you can't hold without obscuring parts of the screen...

        Can you explain that one please? I don't understand why you couldn't hold it without obscuring parts of the screen any different to any other touch screen phone.

        1. Dan Wilkie

          Re: These "new" iPhones

          On my iphone 7 I hold it at bottom and my thumb sits near the home button on the bezel, rather than the screen, same on my 6, the 4S I had years ago, and the android phones I've had inbetween.

          I would guess what he means is that on the iPhoneX, your thumb would be on the screen.

          1. werdsmith Silver badge

            Re: These "new" iPhones

            On my iphone 7 I hold it at bottom and my thumb sits near the home button on the bezel, rather than the screen, same on my 6, the 4S I had years ago, and the android phones I've had inbetween.

            I would guess what he means is that on the iPhoneX, your thumb would be on the screen.

            Well then you are holding it wrong ;)

            But for an iPhone 7, exactly the same as any other touch slab you can just cradle it.

            Then when you want to touch the home button, touch it than move your thumb away again.

            In fact, just trying it out now, in the right hand the thumb naturally goes close to the power button on the side.

            If the phone it touch screen you have to move at least one digit over the screen to operate within apps anyway. I see no issue with all screen phones.

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: These "new" iPhones

            I would guess what he means is that on the iPhoneX, your thumb would be on the screen.

            I thought your thumb was supposed to cover the antenna gap?

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: These "new" iPhones

        My wife is currently looking to replace her iphone 5. Looks like she'll be getting an Android phone, because an iphone price drop is long overdue, and it looks like Apple prices are *still* headed the wrong way.

        1. Dave 126 Silver badge

          Re: These "new" iPhones

          > This has been rumored for two years, before anyone else was shipping bezel-less phones.

          Sharp have had bezel-less phones for quite a few years now, though in small quantities - almost more an advertisement for their screen technology. I will take your wider point, that the lead time to develop a product means that the iPhone X is not directly influenced by the Mii Mix or Rubin Essential phone.

        2. Dexter

          Re: These "new" iPhones

          The iPhone SE is very reasonably priced, and has the merit of being the same size as the iPhone 5

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: These "new" iPhones

            The iPhone SE is very reasonably priced

            350 quid for a tiny phone with an ancient spec, easily beaten by phones costing £150?

            "Reasonably priced" to people with more money than sense, perhaps.

            1. DRue2514

              Re: These "new" iPhones

              Well I like it. Nice size, excellent battery life, decent camera. Does the job.

            2. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: easily beaten by phones costing £150?

              Beaten how? When it comes to running iOS I bet your £150 phone sucks. Just 'cos you don't care about the OS a lot of users do....

              1. Robert Grant

                Re: easily beaten by phones costing £150?

                Given how similar the OSes are, it's just fanboyism to "care" about iOS or Android. They look very, very similar, and have all the same apps.

              2. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: easily beaten by phones costing £150?

                £150 can get you a pretty decent android phone that easilly beats that iOS trash. A Samsung A3 2017 for example....

                1. Stork Bronze badge

                  Re: easily beaten by phones costing £150?

                  A3 is bearable. A bit sluggish in launching stuff, but OK. Liked my XPERIA Z1 Compact better, but it was pricier too.

        3. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: These "new" iPhones

          and it looks like Apple prices are *still* headed the wrong way

          Certainly are. In strategic terms, Apple are treating their business as a cash cow - maximise profit by charging as much as they can, rather than offer real innovation because (in developed markets) they've accepted that they have reached near enough their maximum market share. For a cash cow business, growth can only be in dollars, not physical market share. Traditionally a cash cow faces a declining market, I suspect that with Apple, this cash cow will endure for a very long time.

          Wall Street hoped that Apple would announce some fantastic "augmented reality" product to reignite growth, with Apple encouraging them that this is in the pipeline. I'm sure the iPhone X will fly off the shelves, but AR? Have these people no common sense? Google Glass was a form of AR, and that sank without much trace. Pokemon Go was a form of AR, and that was nothing more than a childish fad. AR is a bit like VR, AI and all the rest - hypeware that is being pushed because the makers hope they can sell it, in the face of a market that really isn't asking for it.

          IMHO, the only medium term growth possibility for Apple is China, but it is not clear whether China will ever really embrace Apple in the same highly profitable way that the UK and US have. The Chinese domestic market is very different, and they've got some excellent handset manufacturers, producing beautiful, well made devices at a fraction of the cost of Apple's product. Even if China does start buying more iPhones, expect very different pricing and much lower pricing, accompanied by unbelievably rigorous region controls to stop a grey market in cheaper Apple devices cannibalising the Western markets willing to pay £1,000 a phone.

          If people buy the X for £1,000 to £1,100, then you can be sure that Apple will be thinking that in a year to eighteen months they can announce an iPhone X-and-a-bit costing £1,400. Apple's innovation is now solely in demanding outlandish prices, and getting the iPhone addicts to pay for them.

        4. Robert Grant

          Re: These "new" iPhones

          Recommend OnePlus. Under half the price of an iPhone X, with dual SIM, 6GB of RAM, 80% charge in half an hour (of a battery that lasts all day anyway), 126GB storage.

          The question Apple has to answer (and the tech press would ask it if they were journalists) is: what is the iPhone X doing that's worth the other £650?

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: These "new" iPhones

            The press won't ask, they have been "compensated" with free phones and luxury launch smoozing to ensure they don't ask awkward questions.

            Nevermind, with all that mark-up plenty of schmooze money to spunk on keeping the press, influencers and celebrity faces happy

          2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

            Re: These "new" iPhones

            "The question Apple has to answer (and the tech press would ask it if they were journalists)"

            If they asked questions like that they wouldn't be allowed into the press conferences.

          3. HelpfulJohn

            Re: These "new" iPhones

            "what is the iPhone X doing that's worth the other £650?"

            Obviously it is giving the user the ability to show off how wealthy, important, stylish, sexy and macho he is. It is peacocking. iPhones are Veblen goods like Rolexes and Rolls-Royces.

            Being "high" in Society is important to some. Important to sufficient numbers for Apple, Rolls and Rolex to stay in business. Them and all the other "designer brands".

            "Have sex with me, I have a new iPhone" works. It always has. It always will. So Apple can never fail.

        5. TVU Silver badge

          Re: These "new" iPhones

          "My wife is currently looking to replace her iphone 5. Looks like she'll be getting an Android phone, because an iphone price drop is long overdue, and it looks like Apple prices are *still* headed the wrong way".

          How about taking a look at something like the OnePlus 3 which is functional, looks good and is much cheaper?

        6. anothercynic Silver badge

          Re: These "new" iPhones

          Or a second-hand/factory iPhone 6s... They're pretty good value.

        7. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: These "new" iPhones

          My wife is currently looking to replace her iphone 5.

          That's the thing. I have an iPhone 6. It works. It's paid for.

          Do I really want to pay $45 a month to get an 8Plus? Err... no, not really.

          Do I want to pay 1/7th the value of my car to buy a new iPhone X? Err..no.

      3. TVU Silver badge

        Re: These "new" iPhones

        "iPhone 10 is Form over function"

        ^ This. Where has the practicality gone? It'll look nice on the coffee table and it might impress friends but just how robust will it be for average day to day use?

        1. Blank Reg

          Re: These "new" iPhones

          "it might impress friends"

          If this is what impresses your friends then you need new friends

    5. Robin

      Re: These "new" iPhones

      Bezel-less screens, wireless charging and on screen home buttons. Wow, that's so innovative - where do they get their ideas from?

      To be fair, during the presentation they didn't claim to be first with any of those things (even though the X doesn't have an on-screen home button).

      1. Naselus

        Re: These "new" iPhones

        "To be fair, during the presentation they didn't claim to be first with any of those things"

        Which is also pretty unusual for Apple, who have never been afraid of claiming credit for a stolen idea.

    6. RyokuMas Silver badge
      FAIL

      Re: These "new" iPhones

      "where do they get their ideas from?"

      Public domain, perhaps?

    7. JimboSmith Silver badge

      Re: These "new" iPhones

      Almost Bezel-less screens*.

      *well according to what I've** seen

      **No pun intended

    8. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: These "new" iPhones

      ...will create a lot of problems dear to Commentards hearts, as mentioned here:

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-41249367

      For example, how do you stop police / customs etc unlocking your phone now?

      What about muslim women?

      Etc

    9. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: These "new" iPhones

      There is a solid chance this blows up in their face. I can see Apple people moving based on a $1,000 plus price tag. I bet they will take the price down after a few months. They probably know that there are a few million people who will pay whatever is asked to be the first group with the new iPhone. Then they take it down for the broad base of people with iPhones next year. Could be wrong though, this may just be a "pay $1,000 plus or go get an Android" situation.

      1. DougS Silver badge

        $1000 price

        If they have limited production - and it is obvious they do given how the X won't ship until early November - then a higher price makes sense to steer some people towards the less expensive 8/8 plus that they're able to make more of. If they priced the X the same as the 8, how many would choose the 8?

        Given that Samsung is selling the Note 8 for $929, Apple selling the X for $999 isn't that crazy. Why should people quibble over another $70? Yeah, I know people will say the Note 8's screen is bigger, it has a pen, etc. but the iPhone has things the Note doesn't have like double the CPU speed and 3D facial scan.

        People are happily paying $929 to get the Note 8, and will happily pay $999 to get the X. The way I look at it, given the hours per day I'm using my phone and all the things I use it for, it doesn't look as expensive as it would have back when I only used a cell phone to make calls. Just like if you had to spend 8 hours a day driving, you'd probably buy a nicer car than if you only drove to the grocery store twice a week.

      2. anothercynic Silver badge
        Facepalm

        Re: These "new" iPhones

        Oh, the ones who drank the Kool-Aid are screaming "gimme! gimme!!!" all over Facebook. Sadly, I have several close acquaintances who are doing just that, yet they are the same ones who complain about how high rent in the LA area is, and how health insurance is difficult to get.

        But new $1,100 iPhone X? Yeah, gimme! GIMME NOW! *head in hands*

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Given how similar the OSes are, it's just fanboyism to "care" about iOS or Android.

          It really isn't. I have to use Android all the time and it's shit. It's shit because it's a generic OS and a lot of the versions out there have been horribly fucked around with. iOS doesn't have that problem at all, it runs a strict set of known devices. I guess it's possible that Android on Pixel is as robust as iOS on iPhone, but Android on a £150 unbranded phone is going to start bad and grind to a halt within a couple of months.

          For example, my current Android phone was £200, has 8 cores, 62 gigs of storage, 3gigs of ram but runs loads slower than it did when I bought it six months ago, hangs intermittently and occasional decides that drawing the touch keyboard is too much bother (it puts up a white rectangle which does work as a keyboard but it's pretty random what you type). That's the reality of Android for most users. It's not fanboyism to want a working operating system.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    A "friendly press" makes a burger of bullshit. - Me

    1. Tom 64
      FAIL

      > "reads your face and works even if you grow a beard, wears glasses, or otherwise alter your appearance."

      Or, unless they have fixed it, someone else holds a photo of you in front of the lens.

      1. Lord Elpuss Silver badge

        "Or, unless they have fixed it, someone else holds a photo of you in front of the lens."

        Yeah they fixed it.

        1. Dr Mantis Toboggan

          Sony fixed it, apple emergency licensed it, when they were halfway down a road with a dead end (under screen fingerprint sensor).

          https://techcrunch.com/2017/06/26/sony-to-demo-3d-face-biometric-running-on-xperia-smartphone/

          Don't worry though, next year's model will obsolete the iPhone X and include all the stuff that wasn't ready in time, and you won't have to worry about people unlocking your phone just by pointing it at you...

        2. Christian Berger Silver badge

          "Yeah they fixed it."

          Then you use a mask. For every sensor there's a way to fool it.

        3. Naselus

          We'll see how 'fixed' it is once the real security bods have had a look tbh. Apple are claiming some ludicrously low failure rate, but then they always do.

        4. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          'Fixed' truedepth

          > Yeah they fixed it.

          Off to my 3d printer I go.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        reads your face and works ... or otherwise alter your appearance

        Well sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't apparently.

        http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-4878556/Apple-exec-suffers-embarrassing-glitch-FaceID-FAILS.html

        Remind anyone else of Bill Gates getting a BSOD at a launch when telling everyone about how much more reliable things were.

        1. LaeMing Silver badge
          Happy

          Re: reads your face and works ... or otherwise alter your appearance

          I imagine it works to the same extent Newton handwriting recognition works (which probably means it works flawlessly for me but noone else!)

  3. J. R. Hartley Silver badge

    Gentlemen.

    She doesn't chooch, and definitely isn't skookum.

    Son of a diddly.

    1. PhilipN Silver badge

      Re: Gentlemen.

      All hail - Ave!

    2. streaky Silver badge

      Re: Gentlemen.

      Invaded by Canuckistan. We all knew this day would come.

    3. A K Stiles
      Joke

      Re: Gentlemen.

      Well that certainly ain't no Cockford-Ollie

  4. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    "a $1,000 iPhone is your 'future'"

    Oh no it isn't. Not mine, anyway.

    1. Wade Burchette

      "a $1,000 iPhone is your 'future'"

      At that price, Apple will only attract the hipster doofuses who have more money than sense. These are the kind of people say to Apple "SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!" For the rest of us, the majority of us who have a life outside a status symbols, they will look elsewhere.

      1. Triggerfish

        Re: "a $1,000 iPhone is your 'future'"

        You know there is one good thing about the release of super expensive phones like this and the note.

        The prices of decent flagships from last year start dropping like stones, you can pick up an S8 plus now for about £500.

    2. FuzzyWuzzys Silver badge
      Facepalm

      Bought £150 Android thing from TESCO, it makes calls, takes messages, gets weather via an app and plays music ( and no doubt will run Twatter and Facepalm apps too ) , which covers 90% of what most people want from a modern phone! Cheers TESCO you saved me 850 Sovs else I might have bought this Apple thing instead, doh!

      1. Voland's right hand Silver badge

        Bought £150 Android

        Concur. My new one which is anything but a landfill (it is an XA1) cost 189. Better camera than the iPhone too.

        As far as no bezel, it matters very little as you get a bezel from the case you need to put it in to keep it from damage.

        1000 for a phone? You are out of your f*** mind mate.

        1. Triggerfish

          @ Voland's right hand

          I agree with that comment on the bezeless phones actually real nice look, but it's going in a case as soon as I get one anyway, thing lives in my pocket all day.

          1. werdsmith Silver badge

            Re: @ Voland's right hand

            But it won't be that much money to the buyers, the cost is abstracted behind a £65 per month payment that includes all their calls and data. That's 2 x takeaway nights in our house or half the cost of a decent sit down restaurant evening (which is why I won't be buying one, I'd rather have the takeaways).

            1. Voyna i Mor Silver badge

              Re: @ Voland's right hand

              "But it won't be that much money to the buyers, the cost is abstracted behind a £65 per month payment that includes all their calls and data. "

              Currently I pay between £6.25 and £10 a month for all my calls and data. £500 a year on top? I have an annual phone budget of £150, though I had to go £100 over this year because I managed to destroy the one I intended to sell. I use just about every significant feature of Android including the barometer and compass.

              I then encounter people with the big iPhones who use them only - and I mean only - for calls and text, and possibly email. The usual reason? "My son told me to get one." It's like seeing a Range Rover used for nothing but taking the kids to and from private school...oh wait.

          2. Dazed and Confused Silver badge

            Re: @ Voland's right hand

            > I agree with that comment on the bezeless phones actually real nice look, but it's going in a case as soon as I get one anyway, thing lives in my pocket all day.

            I've got a S7Edge thing and keep it in my pocket but I don't want to add a case as that would bulk it up to much. Mind it is the first mobile I'm managed to break the screen on, dropping 3' face down onto a tiled floor probably wasn't a great move.

            The photos I've seen of this new iPhone don't look like the screen really is edge to edge, there's loads of space around the edge, at least a mm or 2. To me, edge to edge means that if a mate an I put our phones down side by side there should be no discernable gap and that it won't be long until an app arrives that lets us treat the pair of phones as a single bigger screen, or put several down together to get a much bigger one to watch movies on.

            1. Triggerfish

              Re: @ Voland's right hand

              It's a bit YMMV. I am sure I'd end up with a broken phone at some point. I have the phone on me all the time and the risk of it getting knocked when it is in my pocket and out and about added to the fact where I live even carpets and rugs are not common and so knocking it off a table or fumbling it is always a drop to a hard floor (the case has easily justified itself in this alone pretty sure screen would be a goner by now). For me it's just asking for it. I can live with the bulk it makes my current phone 12mm thick in total and has admittedly caused it to weigh twice as much but it's a minor inconvenience compared with it being well protected for me.

              Also 1-2mm of plastic is not going to do naff all especially as its part of the structure, all that shock from a drop will pretty much go to the screen, a corner drop is not going to be good.

              1. Dr Dan Holdsworth Silver badge

                Re: @ Voland's right hand

                Why on earth they cannot follow Samsung's lead and make a smartphone that, whilst it doesn't have curvy screen edges and incredible look and feel DOES have corner protection, a large battery and a case that will withstand being dropped.

                As it stands these days, you buy a phone, take it out of the packaging, admire this thing of beauty and wonderous design then spend twenty minutes making sure it is completely clean before stuffing it into the armoured case where it will have to spend the rest of its days merely to ensure that the expensive thing remains undamaged.

      2. JimboSmith Silver badge
        Childcatcher

        One thing I've never understood is the obsession with showing off the Apple Logo. I don't mean by Apple I mean by the people using the products. I had someone on my team who dismissed a very nice case for their iPhone 6 because it didn't have a hole to show the logo on the back. She is then concerned about using it in some places because "People steal expensive Apple phones you know."*

        Now call me odd if you like but I cannot see why I should give companies free advertising of their products for them. I refuse to walk round in clothing plastered with the name of the brand for this reason. My phone is in a case that doesn't identify the maker of either the case or the phone. Now my bag does have the name of a company on it, it was the company who gave me the bag for free a couple of years ago. Quite prepared to do it if I get something for free and the company in question doesn't suck.

        *Years ago we did come up with a fun idea though to help prevent iPhone theft. It was a case that made your expensive iPhone 5S look like a 5C because we figured who'd want to steal a 5C?

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "a $1,000 iPhone is your 'future'"

      As a colleague of mine said this morning that he replaces his phone at least every two years as the tech becomes "dated". He is a classic early adopter for new stuff and doesn't normally worry about the cost. However even he has balked at a $1000 and he's been a fan of the fruity firm for a while. He said that some people like him will buy the X just because it's the newest thing and (supposed to be the) best phone out there. However he also said that he had no doubt that some people will be put off by the price and won't fancy having the 8 as it's second best.

  5. J.Smith

    Corporate vision

    I'm signed up to their corporate visio... nightmare, well, one has to be social.

    Now, if only Facebook can co-opt other parts of public space, think how wonderful things could be.

  6. psychonaut

    Jumping Jesus h Johnny Ive steve Christing Jobs. Wireless charging. It's the future. And I'm living in it.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      It's the future. And I'm living in it.

      Yep, I thought "Meh" as well. However, the startup tech houses for wireless charging that I had dealings with last year all expected that the new phone would have wireless charging, that it would be Qi compatible, but that it would have "better than everybody else's Qi" capability with the right chargers (larger charging mats, more powerful chargers, much less specific on placement of the phone to charge). I wonder if that's the delay in Apple's charging pads?

      Because of lead times on design and production, the phones were always going to have the silicon in for wireless charging, and the expectation was that if the "improved Apple version" wasn't working, it would be disabled in software, and nothing publicised about the boarded-off capability, and possibly it would be rolled out in a later OS launch with a flourish. Clearly they've gone with a mere Qi implementation, and that will amaze and delight the faithful. Whether they've cracked the problem of heat whilst charging I don't know, but if they haven't, then it won't do much for battery life.

    2. Wibble

      And they don't even give you a wireless charger for your £1000+

      No worse than a £4k MacBook not Pro not having a mains cable.

      We deserve all we get for putting up with this treatment.

      1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        "We deserve all we get for putting up with this treatment."

        Who's this "we" of whom you speak?

  7. emmanuel goldstein

    IT'S TIME...

    Top tip for 2018: short AAPL.

    1. Dave 126 Silver badge

      Re: IT'S TIME...

      Enter 'AAPL' into Google, and look at the graph you find. Then cross reference that graph against comments like yours over that last decade. What do you see?

    2. TVU Silver badge

      Re: IT'S TIME...

      "Top tip for 2018: short AAPL".

      Actually, that is a valid point and not just for Apple but for other smartphone makers too. The days of great innovation are over, there's market saturation in the developed world and there's precious little to differentiate all these black, rectangular phones from each other.

  8. Kevin McMurtrie Silver badge
    Trollface

    Genius Groves?

    Wow, that's even more branding Kool-Aid than Google swims in. They may envision something that looks like a gathering of enlightened Roman philosophers but it's going to be Troll Forest.

    1. Vector

      Re: Genius Groves?

      And this is a surprise how?

      Allow me to point you to:

      "FaceTime" (Hey! You can video chat

      ...as long as everyone has an iPhone)

      "Retina Display" (we had more pixels than anyone else! briefly)

      "Touch ID" (Look! we added a fingerprint scanner)

      Since I've never owned an iPhone, those are the only ones I can think of offhand.

      1. Lord Elpuss Silver badge

        Re: Genius Groves?

        FaceTime - first mobile video calling that actually worked well.

        Retina Display - first truly high-res mobile display.

        TouchID - first mobile biometric scanner that actually worked well.

        The fact that these things are now standard, doesn't mean they weren't innovative.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Genius Groves?

          That is all complete nonsense.

          Retina display offered nothing other mobile display on high end android devices weren't already offering 6 months before. Apple but a idiot stamp on it so cretins could feel superior.

          TouchID didn't work work well, could be easily fooled (blutak), and was bought in component, already used in other non apple products.

          Facetime, are you for real? Skype existed on mobile at the same time as facetime... I know, as I remember a fellow iPhone owner trying to use it abroad and failing badly with disconnects and poor audio, and I showed the Skype connected to the same network working perfectly....

          1. werdsmith Silver badge

            Re: Genius Groves?

            The problem with these discussion is that nobody is actually claiming any innovation. People are accusing people of claiming innovation so that they have a reason to deride, but all Apple are claiming is that they have added these things to their phones. Even the fanboys know they are not new things these days.

            1. Naselus

              Re: Genius Groves?

              "The problem with these discussion is that nobody is actually claiming any innovation."

              Uh, I guess they must've misinterpreted the constant use of the word 'gamechanger' at every Apple event since 2002 as some kind of claim to have done something innovative.

              1. Voyna i Mor Silver badge

                Re: Genius Groves?

                "Uh, I guess they must've misinterpreted the constant use of the word 'gamechanger'"

                It's perfectly correct, last year was tiddleywinks, this year is snakes and ladders.

        2. d3vy Silver badge

          Re: Genius Groves?

          @lord elpuss

          "FaceTime - first mobile video calling that actually worked well"

          The first iteration of this required a WiFi connection and wouldn't work on a cellular connection. So it was either NOT mobile or didn't work well... You can't claim both.

          1. Dave 126 Silver badge

            Re: Genius Groves?

            I don't care whether a feature is innovative. I do care about how well it has been implemented, and how well it is integrated into the system as a whole.

      2. d3vy Silver badge

        Re: Genius Groves?

        "Since I've never owned an iPhone, those are the only ones I can think of offhand."

        You forgot that time back in 2009 whenever copy and paste was a mind blowing innovation. Truly "magical"

    2. Voyna i Mor Silver badge

      Re: Genius Groves?

      "a gathering of enlightened Roman philosophers"

      Small point; there weren't any enlightened Roman philosophers. The Romans stuck to empire building and political mayhem, and they left philosophy, as it was then understood, to the Greeks.

      Which is probably why the Antikythera Mechanism had no successor until the 17th century AD.

  9. Andy Mac
    Windows

    Apple copying Microsoft?

    Well, they skipped the 9

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Apple copying Microsoft?

      ... and installed an inward-facing CEO to follow the one that actually built the business.

    2. Def Silver badge
      FAIL

      Re: Apple copying Microsoft?

      Not just the missing nine either. (Although I wouldn't be surprised if they still release the iPhone 9 as next year's budget offering.)

      My Lumia 950 has facial recognition to unlock (as I'm sure lots of other phones have), double-tap to wake up, swipe up to get off the lock screen (seriously, Apple? This is a core feature now?), a six-core processor, 3GB of RAM, a higher resolution display with a much higher DPI. It's lighter, despite being bigger, and has a replaceable battery. And the battery lasts forever (about a week) too because there aren't any apps to run on it. ;)

      Not to mention the fact my OCD screams at me every time I see that cut out at the top of the iPhoneX screen.

      And Apple still haven't realised that the completely round bevel is a really fucking terrible idea. (Has anyone ever tried to prop up an iPad on top of the duvet?)

      Also, does this mean every iPhone is going to be a new revision of the X like they've done with fucking macOSX - which must be getting close to macOS XX by now, surely? (I know, I know, don't call you Shirley...)

      1. VinceH Silver badge

        Re: Apple copying Microsoft?

        Not to mention the fact my OCD screams at me every time I see that cut out at the top of the iPhoneX screen."

        Ah, you're referring to the 'Young Bruce Willis styling'.

    3. joed

      Re: Apple copying Microsoft?

      I made the same comment at work today. Now, the surprising bit to me is that they copied 8. I had assumed that they just skipped over the cursed version. We'll see about XIII

    4. julianh72

      Re: Apple copying Microsoft?

      "Well, they skipped the 9"

      And in other breaking news - next year's iteration won't be the "S" update, it'll be called the iPhone X "Creator's Update".

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Apple copying Microsoft?

        next year's iteration won't be the "S" update, it'll be called the iPhone X "Creator's Update"

        Brilliant idea. And, in next year's breathless marketingasm, they can rename the "Steve Jobs Theater" (tm) as "The Creator's Theater" (tm).

        I think that given the clear lack of real innovation since Jobs, they should next year start to really big-up the Steve legend. They could all wear robes (with a turtle-neck, of course), chant a catchy mantra about Steve The Creator. I say mantra, it'd obviously have to be a rap, by some well known but essentially untalented hip-hop star, to continue the myth that Apple have any relevance to youth culture.

        1. Aladdin Sane Silver badge

          Re: Apple copying Microsoft?

          As any Whovian will tell you, you don't skip 9.

      2. Leigh Geary

        Re: Apple copying Microsoft?

        Indeed. They've effectively added some go-faster stickers on the iPhone 7 and called it the iPhone 8. Trouble is, the iPhone 8 is effectively now the iPhone SE for 2017. Full-on Apple fans won't really want it. It's the "make do" phone. They'll want the iPhone X, and best of all, Apple has cranked up the price on that. Insane genius marketing. You have to hand it to them.

        I did some tappy-tappy thing on the keyboard about it all here - http://www.coolsmartphone.com/2017/09/13/the-apple-launch-just-like-that-the-iphone-8-became-the-iphone-se/

    5. Updraft102 Silver badge

      Re: Apple copying Microsoft?

      "Apple copying Microsoft?

      Well, they skipped the 9"

      And calling it "X" for 10 brings up some none-too-happy memories of GWX.

      And the reply by AC:

      > ... and installed an inward-facing CEO to follow the one that actually built the business.

      ...who, in Microsoft's case, is trying to copy Apple and Google at every opportunity.

    6. WallMeerkat Bronze badge

      Re: Apple copying Microsoft?

      I'd assumed the X was some sort of nod to OSX integration

      But then they dropped the X from OSX and it is now known as MacOS.

      So I'm even more confused now.

    7. TVU Silver badge

      Re: Apple copying Microsoft?

      "Apple copying Microsoft?

      Well, they skipped the 9"

      I don't get the corporate hate for the number 9. Is it the new 13?

      1. Really Anonymous Coward

        Re: Apple copying Microsoft?

        Issues in Germany? "iPhone Nein"

  10. Lysenko

    Hahahaha...

    £130 more absurd than the Note 8 (you can bet $-£ will be 1-1) and you lose the fingerprint sensor for some facial recognition hokum. Who on Earth is going to pay these prices!? (Yes, I know, the same people who lay out £700 a year on the national lottery voluntary extra taxation).

  11. Byz

    The interesting bit...

    Is the neural engine, first time a hardware neural network has been put into a consumer product.

    1. Dave 126 Silver badge

      Re: The interesting bit...

      Yeah, I was more interested in the new silicon too (because similar hardware efforts are in the pipeline from the likes of Qualcomm and probably Google too). These new phones are the first outing for Apple's in house GPU since they ended their relationship with Imagination Technologies. And their Image Signal Processor - let's not forget that the big stand out feature of Google's Pixel phone was cunning software treatment of the sensor data. There's some custom silicon for video motion tracking too. What makes this more interesting than the likes of Project Tango is that these iPhones will ship to interest developers.

      1. mc nobby

        Re: The interesting bit...

        Yawn, you mean if I buy the over priced video software It's not going to look rubbish when I shoot in 4k

        1. Lord Elpuss Silver badge

          Re: The interesting bit...

          It'll probably still look rubbish, but that's not the phone's fault.

    2. Paul Hargreaves

      Re: The interesting bit...

      > first time a hardware neural network has been put into a consumer product.

      My Tesla would like to say Hi.

      1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: The interesting bit...

        "My Tesla would like to say Hi."

        Tell it to just keep watching the road. https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/09/13/ntsb_recommends_self_driving_cars_autopilots_upgrade/

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: The interesting bit...

        My Tesla would like to say Hi.

        .. but that's a tad harder to stick in your pocket :).

        1. MercenaryGman
          FAIL

          Re: The interesting bit...

          ...and the battery in my phone will last over a 1,000 mile interstate car trip. I'm still waiting to see a Tesla with out of state license plates.

    3. Mystic Megabyte Silver badge
      Trollface

      Re: The interesting bit...

      "Is the neural engine, first time a hardware neural network has been put into a consumer product."

      Yes, they actually have a frog's brain inside. This is why, at least once a week, you have to leave your phone in a bowl of water overnight.

  12. Blotto Bronze badge

    Can't wait

    To see one and order one.

    That edge to edge screen looks awesome,

    Facial tracking looks awesome

    They've gone the extra mile with face Id (apart from if you gave an identical twin)

    I love the way they are wringing the most possible from customising the hardware and software, not something you see in the Android world.

    Even extending wireless charging so it uses standard QI and can use apples new multi charge, thus will benefit non Apple customers alike.

    1. Dave 126 Silver badge

      Re: Can't wait

      > customising the hardware and software, not something you see in the Android world.

      Yep, that marriage of software and silicon is an Apple trait that Google have noticed, and have hired silicon engineers too. Qualcomm too are offering AR / IR scanning support modules to OEMs too.

      I suspect Apple will have the lead in attracting 3rd party AR developers initially, with Android systems catching up quickly.

    2. JimboSmith Silver badge

      Re: Can't wait

      Facial tracking will be interesting with ApplePay, can't wait to see people doing that as they get on the bus on my journey to work. Yes they can set it up in advance but get held up by more than a minute as happened this morning and you've got to do it all over again.

    3. nanchatte

      Re: Can't wait

      Don't bother, blotto... If Apple cultards are a thing then so are the idiotically anti-apple-and-too-cool-to-be-a-hipster regitards.

      They'd rather sever their own todgers than admit that the world's most profitable smart phone producer are good at business,

      1. Naselus

        Re: Can't wait

        No one said Apple were bad at business. It's making decent tech they suck at.

        1. Lee D Silver badge

          Re: Can't wait

          "No one said Apple were bad at business. It's making decent tech they suck at."

          Beat me to it, and is exactly my prime complaint.

          However, they do suck at business too. As someone who's just ditched £250k of Apple equipment in a school as they have NO education support department, really don't care, even about written complaints of the simplest order, and refuse to confirm ANYTHING (even their name) in writing whatsoever. I was literally REFUSED details of their complaints procedure by their head of written complaints. They have no interest in future business or their customers whatsoever.

          Literally, Apple sell product. That's all they do. They - and their customers - have no care for if that product is any good, or what happens after you buy their product.

          A company that can make the HIGHEST PROFIT MARGIN in the industry is not one you want to do business with as a consumer. It means that most of your money is spent, not on the product or services, but on bullion sitting in a bank. Your *value* for money is pitiful with an Apple product.

          They are also only the third-best-selling phone company (Samsung and Huawei now, believe it or not), worse for tablets, and have absolutely pitiful penetration in their other markets.

          Nobody says they can't sell. But what they sell is snake-oil and "design" (which in this case means "looks pretty" and has NOTHING to do with actual design, i.e. ease of use, innovation, fitness for purpose etc.). Their phones are just slabs of screen, that's it. That's not "design".

          Apple are a "designer brand", not a technology manufacturer. You buy because it's Apple and has the Apple logo, and receive a bog-standard product at ENORMOUS markup to show off to your friends. It's consumerism of the worst kind.

          I have no objection to people buying them. I just make it clear that I have absolutely no interest in it. When it doesn't work? Yeah, take it back to the people you bought it from. They made enough on it that they can afford to replace it 20 times over for free, so I have no interest in struggling to save your photos off it, or getting you a replacement screen, or whatever. You haven't bought a computer, so don't bring it to me to fix.

          And when you can't work out why all your storage is gone, or you can't install an app, or iCloud is sucking up all your data, or it gets stuck in an iTunes login loop (as happened back in Feb/Mar rendering every iPad useless for the day) remind me again how "intuitive" it is.

          As far as I'm concerned, that extra money you pay Apple is a lifetime service contract with them, because I have no interest in those devices, can generally do nothing for you, and have no interest in trying any more given Apple's attitude to their users and anyone trying to help them.

          1. Blotto Bronze badge
            IT Angle

            Re: Can't wait

            @Lee D

            "However, they do suck at business too. As someone who's just ditched £250k of Apple equipment in a school as they have NO education support department, really don't care, even about written complaints of the simplest order, and refuse to confirm ANYTHING (even their name) in writing whatsoever. I was literally REFUSED details of their complaints procedure by their head of written complaints. They have no interest in future business or their customers whatsoever."

            so you just junked £250k worth of kit because apple wouldn't answer your simple support questions?

            sounds like a pebkac issue of the highest order.

          2. TVU Silver badge

            Re: Can't wait

            "As someone who's just ditched £250k of Apple equipment in a school as they have NO education support department, really don't care, even about written complaints of the simplest order, and refuse to confirm ANYTHING (even their name) in writing whatsoever".

            Time for much cheaper and robust Chromebooks for school use?

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Can't wait

              Time for much cheaper and robust Chromebooks for school use?

              God yes, get them used to being spied on early. Make sure they also join Facebook.

    4. FuzzyWuzzys Silver badge
      Facepalm

      Re: Can't wait

      Assuming that's not sarcasm...everyone has to have a hobby I suppose, and spending money on products for which there are identically functional equivalents for half the price is one then you have it mate with my very best wishes!

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Funny stuff this facial recognition

    Just seen the tweet Frankie Boyle made about the facial recognition

    Set your Apple Face ID to your comeface, so that if someone mugs you for your phone they at least have to wank you off first

    1. katx5h

      Re: Funny stuff this facial recognition

      Talk about "Hands Free" access.

    2. FuzzyWuzzys Silver badge
      Happy

      Re: Funny stuff this facial recognition

      I think most Apply fanboi cultists are already pulling that face every time they pull out their phone anyways!

  14. The Infamous Grouse
    Meh

    The whole presentation was the epitome of meh.

    I won't lie, I've been an marginal iOS fanboi since getting my first iPod touch in 2009, and I've owned two iPhones and two iPads since. But there was nothing in today's two hour snoozefest that generated so much as a raised eyebrow, let alone a twitching in the wallet.

    My current iPhone is a 128GB iPhone 6, bought for a wife-shocking £699 in 2015 and at the time the best model available without going Plus. It remains the most expensive phone (and one of the most expensive computers) I've ever owned. I have made good use of that 128GB though.

    Trade-in notwithstanding, to replace it with a 128GB iPhone 7 (two generations beyond mine but also two generations behind the new cutting edge) would cost £649.

    The iPhone 8 doesn't come in 128GB flavours, so I'd have to go for the 256GB model which is £949 unlocked.

    And the 256GB iPhone X is an eye-watering £1,149.

    Those prices are ridiculous even by Apple standards. The 7 should be lower by at least £100, the 8 and X by at least £200. But they'd still be contentious. The incremental improvements in the phones simply can't justify them, and the impressive but untested Face ID technology in the iPhone X is going to be one of the biggest hacking targets of the next 12 months. £1,149 is a hell of a price to pay to be a security guinea pig.

    Nope, Apple has lost its mojo in my eyes. My bank account may be forever grateful, but my inner fanboi is weeping silent tears. If a love affair is to end it should at least be with a feeling of betrayal. All I'm left with is a profound sense of apathy.

    When the most you can remember about an Apple keynote is Craig Federighi doing a chicken impersonation, you know something has gone very very wrong.

    1. O RLY

      Slight price correction: the 256GB iPhone 8 is actually the slightly-less-staggering £849, not £949, unless you meant the Plus.

      As to the chicken impersonation, that was surreal. I can't imagine the target market for animated puppies and chickens overlaps much with the set of people who are going to drop four figures (£ or $) for a phone. I'm probably wrong.

      1. The Infamous Grouse

        "Slight price correction: the 256GB iPhone 8 is actually the slightly-less-staggering £849, not £949, unless you meant the Plus."

        Ah, you're right. Chrome PrivacyBadger was blocking some Apple CSS (I thought it was a store update in progress) and I was pulling those prices from the plain HTML. The £949 was next to the word Unlocked so I mistook that for the reason for the difference. But yes, the iPhone 8 is £849.

        Still too high to even consider an upgrade, even though a large chunk of that will be the standard Apple storage tax for the extra 128GB. Maybe if I was still on a 4S or 5...? Meh.

        This is where Apple's showmanship works against them, I feel. Improvements in phone technology are still happening across the industry but they're heading for a plateau and there's a law of diminishing returns at play. But Apple are still using their same pitch: "magic", "incredible" etc. When you're being told something is the most amazing thing ever, but you can see with your own eyes that it isn't, the magic is lost and replaced by cynicism. It's like going to a Disney show and none of the characters have their heads on. There's still the same effort in the performance, but you can no longer suspend your disbelief.

    2. cambsukguy

      My phone cost me £300 quid, has over 530 ppi screen, 2500 pixel across display, removable battery, 96GB of memory but could have 230GB if I needed.

      The camera is 20 Megapixels and has a Zeiss lens with an absolutely fantastic Camera App and three LEDs to produce natural lighting, adjustable after taking the picture - I have not seen better pictures from any other camera, the 1020 gave it a run for the money on a good day of course.

      It also has iris recognition which also works in the dark because it uses Infra Red.

      Given that AR is not really my thing. it seems like I have saved 700 quid.

      Oh yeah, also has Qi wireless charging, like my previous 2 phones did. It also performs easily well enough, I suppose 6 cores at god-know-how-many MHz will do that.

      It gets regular updates, both in security and features, has fast charging (rarely needed since it gets topped up wirelessly but still). The list is endless really.

      I really, truly, honestly don't get how people can spend that kind of money on a phone that just isn't really better and that can easily break if you drop it - putting it in a case, as many do, completely removes the benefits of that slimness and lightness. I have never had a case, a cheaper phone makes that a much easier proposition, as well as saving the price of a case!

      Oh well, not my problem I suppose, I will just internally snigger like I do at the owners of Audi Q7s and insert-similar-horrible-car here, who must mistake it for envy given their smug faces.

      1. werdsmith Silver badge

        Sounds like a wonderful piece of hardware mr cambsukguy (neighbour).

        Unfortunately, if on all that wonderful hardware it is running Android, then I wouldn't want it for £3.00 let alone £300.

        I don't really like iPhones, but they are the lesser of the two evils. Mine is a 7, cost £270 bought sim free unlocked and is overspec'd for my use.

        Seems that I have saved £30.

        1. Charlie Clark Silver badge

          Unfortunately, if on all that wonderful hardware it is running Android,

          Why not? With default settings Android is pretty security and can be hardened, viz. BlackBerry betting its business on this. Stick with your expensive Apple tat if you like but you might as well stop with the anti-Android mud-slinging as it's not working.

          1. Naselus

            "With default settings Android is pretty secure"

            Not really. The most up-to-date version usually is... not that anyone aside from Pixel owners ever has the most up-to-date version of Android at any given time. Even flagships often have anything up to half a year of lag time on the update, while with low-end models you may as well forget it.

            I loathe Apple's overpriced, underspec tat, and I have serious concerns with the entire 'walled garden' security philosophy, but there's no denying that their security is much better than the dire malware hellscape that makes up 90% of Androidland.

            1. Charlie Clark Silver badge

              Not really.

              Depends on your definition of secure, I suppose.

              While there have been some headline-grabbing exploits over the past couple of years they have led to relatively few real-world problems because the OS really is pretty secure. That's not to say that things couldn't and shouldn't be a lot better but that's largely down to the lack of regulation. You can bet your bottom dollar that as soon as there is a large scale attack on Android phones in the US there'll be a class action suit on the back of it.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                You can bet your bottom dollar that as soon as there is a large scale attack on Android phones in the US there'll be a class action suit on the back of it.

                LOL, who would you sue? Google's idea to create a fragmented market works well for them: it prevents key players gathering too much leverage to force it to do anything it doesn't want, and it makes it very hard to sue any particular entity for the problems with Android.

                When it comes to that, Apple is in a much harder place.

          2. Hans 1 Silver badge

            With default settings Android is pretty security and can be hardened, viz. BlackBerry betting its business on this.

            Can be hardened, yes, sure, but not by you or me.

            Android has a disastrous security track record ... some 95% of all Androids on the market are vulnerable to at least one threat which will not be fixed by Google, assuming Oreo has a 5% Android marketshare, I guess much less, but still ...

            As for Blackberry ... they have trouble getting updates for their Android phones ... just ended updates to Priv and dtek's

            Yes, BB10 fanboy, here ... :'(

            BUT, Android sucks, their default mail app is plain useless, YES, useless, a waste of space on the device ... ok, you can get another, but email is kinda central to a phone, up there with texts and calling. Have not seen a decent filemanager on the device, yet. The sound management is a joke, like media/ringtone sound levels - I keep muting my phone when I want to reduce media sound ... I don't want everybody on the train to hear I am about to play CandyCrush, thanks, yet I do want to keep ringtone sound level normal, please ... how hard can that be ? BB10 and iOS do that out of the box.

            At least now you can format microsd cards and install apps on them, we are getting there ... only if you get Android 6 (iirc) or later ... 80% of phones out there won't get 6, let alone 7 or 8 ...

            Android, to be honest, I cannot understand how they could be where they are ... the OS sucks golf balls through garden hoses ...

            Now, Apple, iOS has its problems, too ... no microsd, for example, completely F'd up, Listen, Ive, the 1980's called, they want their lockin back ... iTunes ... (no need to go into that, right ? We all know iTunes sucks), File management on iOS ?

            Backups, hm, backups ... So, you have an issue, as in, you cannot install any apps anymore, you have tons of space, but no, it downloads but won't install ... since Apple has this locked-in filesystem BS, you cannot really get off the device what you want to then factory restore it ... no, you put your crown jewels (iow you backup your private data) on ff'ing iCloud, reset the phone, play the backup back and the f*cker still does not want to install apps ... you backed up the glitch ... soooo handy ... what do you do now ? You are AppleFsck'd!

            We really need Debian or something on these devices ... these phone OS's are crap!

            1. JimboSmith Silver badge

              @Hans1

              You missed the inability for iPhones to receive files sent over bluetooth

            2. Charlie Clark Silver badge

              Android has a disastrous security track record ... some 95% of all Androids on the market are vulnerable to at least one threat

              Show us the real remote exploits in the wild. If people only install from PlayStore (or equivalent) then they really are reasonably safe from remote exploits.

              We really need Debian or something on these devices ... these phone OS's are crap!

              Not for phones we don't! Or has Debian Phone recently been released? Remember Unity?

          3. werdsmith Silver badge

            @Charlie Clark

            Why not? With default settings Android is pretty security and can be hardened

            Why bring up security? I don't care about that scaremongering.

            It's just the general shitness of android that I can't get along with.

            IOS is still shitty but slightly less shitty and if I can avoid any shit then I will.

      2. Captain Obvious

        And what is the make and model of this phone?

    3. Updraft102 Silver badge

      "Nope, Apple has lost its mojo in my eyes. My bank account may be forever grateful, but my inner fanboi is weeping silent tears. If a love affair is to end it should at least be with a feeling of betrayal. All I'm left with is a profound sense of apathy."

      Nothing gold can stay, I suppose.

      I don't have any interest in iPhones (or Androids, for that matter), but it kind of reminds me of another "X" that has been pushed on us lately, in the form of Windows 10. Windows may never have been golden, per se, but XP was pretty close and 7 not too far behind. Talk about lost mojo...

      Or perhaps we could discuss Mozilla and Firefox, what with their upcoming amputation of Firefox's most distinctive and defining feature (XUL addons) in their endless quest to be more like Chrome. I don't really know offhand how Chrome looks; I've only seen it a few brief moments, but when I heard that Firefox had jettisoned the search bar, my first thought was that Chrome must not have one then. And it doesn't.

      We can keep our old Windows and iPhones and browsers even after they release the latest, greatest versions that we don't want, but security updates prevent that from working forever. Maybe you can skip the new iPhone for now, but your existing one won't be supported forever. Then what? At least the iPhone X is just an overpriced, underwhelming product, not one where its key feature is being removed or that is an abomination unto operating systems the world has seldom seen.

  15. jake Silver badge

    Am I the only one who ...

    ... thinks that Apple's new campus looks like one of those bat-a-ball tracks for cats? Not that I find the design particularly surprising, given Apple's predilection for providing glitter for the easily mesmerized.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Am I the only one who ...

      Don't worry, the 'spaceship' will soon take off for Mars when the combined release of 'hot-air' from those inside reaches critical mass. While pleasing most commentators here it will piss off Elon Musk who wanted to be the first person to go to Mars (to help him work, rest and play naturally).

      But we here in BREXIT Blighty can breathe a sigh of relief as another Apple/anti-Apple hype fest is over for another year and get back to living with less disposable income. We will gaze at the new iPhone with starry eyes and then head for the nearest cheapo Android dealer or pawn shop to get some Fanboi cast offs.

      That is the reality of life here.

      1. FuzzyWuzzys Silver badge

        Re: Am I the only one who ...

        "...the 'spaceship' will soon take off for Mars..."

        I think you mean Xenu, don't you?!

    2. LDS Silver badge

      Re: Am I the only one who ...

      Apple new campus was modeled after the One Ring... I'm sure if you can heat it enough, the same words will appear along the structure...

  16. armyknife

    Recipe for disaster?

    The new style apple turnover mainly features BS with a sprinkling of Orwellian double speak.

    1. Naselus

      Re: Recipe for disaster?

      What do you mean, 'new'?

  17. anthonyhegedus Silver badge

    Disclaimer: I love my iPhone 7 Plus and I’ve been very pleased with all the iPhone models I’ve upgraded to since the 3G model.

    BUT

    But.. I cannot get my head around this face ID nonsense. I like to use Apple Pay on my phone to buy stuff in shops. It’s more convenient and safer than contactless. Right now I just pull out my phone, hold my thumb on the conveniently located home button and place it by the card reader. It’s very quick and painless. With this new iPhone X I’d have to point it at myself to recognise myself and then place it near the payment terminal. It seems like just a bit too awkward when in public.

    And now I find that the Apple Watch is fuck all use to me because it only works if your main phone is with the carrier EE. Mine isn’t.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      I thought that the Series 3 watch with LTE sounded okay until I heard that you had to have an iPhone still and the phone number would be the same as the phone. I'd rather have two separate numbers and not have to go anywhere near EE ever.

    2. nanchatte

      FaceID

      anthonyhedgedus, Agreed. I have no idea what they were smoking when they disabled touchID... A quite literal case of Facepalm to unlock.

      1. AMBxx Silver badge

        Re: FaceID

        I had face recognition on my Lumia 950XL. Worked well enough, but you just look really stupid starting at your phone to unlock. Much easier to just use a PIN (or finger print, though not sure I truest that).

  18. davidp231

    So...

    Will the SE version be labelled the SE/30?

  19. PhilipN Silver badge

    Apple Pay

    This is already a p-in-the-a with the fingerprint sensor. Now am I going to have to go into contortions* to show my face to the frigging phone cam down where the cashier keeps the payment terminal?

    *Here's a clue - No. Flashing a Visa card is soooo much easier.

  20. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Low-end

    I was waiting to see if the iPhone SE would get tweaked, because my 5s is on the way out. Nope. Ah well. An SE will do me. It's a *phone*, FFS. It fits in my pocket. The screen is big enough to see Waze when I'm driving. My contacts and calendars live on it, and are usable. What else are these things for?

    1. ZillaOfManilla

      Re: Low-end

      I just ordered an Xperia XZ1 compact for similar reasons, the battery charging tech interests me, will be great if it can extend the life on the battery as it's supposed to.

  21. Salestard

    Surprisingly Quiet Crowd

    Previous launches have been stuffed full of professional whoopers - even by American standards of explicit enthusiasm for things, they've been noisy. I recall the one where they changed the Game Center UI from the baize card table themed thing, and the crowd literally went wild... over a frigging skin.

    This one was notably subdued though. True, Tim 'John Major' Cook doesn't evoke the rabid cultist like ol' PhoneJesus did, but did I sense disappointment in the assembled hackage?

    As for the mobe itself, usual Apple form of trying to combine all the best bits from other manufacturers into an aesthetically pleasing slice, and charging the earth for it; A grand for a telephone is somewhat pricey, even if the stainless bit round the edge does polish to a beautiful shine. (On that note, I was under the impression that stainless steel was, by default, polished to a high shine?)

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Surprisingly Quiet Crowd

      On that note, I was under the impression that stainless steel was, by default, polished to a high shine?

      In its raw form, stainless is just as dull of surface as non-stainless. The difference is that it doesn't immediately start oxidising so it *stays* shiny once polished, and it's fairly immune to the acids of fingerprints etc. However, if I bought a phone at that price, sticking it in a protective case would be about the first thing I'd do, followed by adding a matt, oleophobic film to the front.

      I don't like shiny much, it brings out the OCD in me trying to keep it clean..

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Surprisingly Quiet Crowd

      Previous launches have been stuffed full of professional whoopers

      How much do you think a professional whooper gets, over in Merkinland? Do they put in training and warm up routines?

      Maybe whooping is a niche like voice over actors, where there's any number of two-bit pretenders, but a clear hierarchy up to the handful of top talent A-listers who command megabucks, like Peter Dickson, or Alan Dedicoat in the UK.

  22. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Did you expect anything else from Apple?

    Fools and their money are soon parted ... how very true, even in this day and age.

    I'll be sticking with my old-skool Nokia 3310. It does exactly what I need a mobile phone to do, make and receive calls.

    1. Geriant

      Re: Did you expect anything else from Apple?

      OMG!! That is just soooooooo yesterday! LOL

    2. macjules Silver badge

      Re: Did you expect anything else from Apple?

      And not forgetting that Apple, very quietly I might add, just removed App functionality from iTunes. From now on you have to download apps directly onto your phone. I presume that this is to help those poor unfortunate mobile networks ...

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Thumb Down

        Re: Did you expect anything else from Apple?

        And not forgetting that Apple, very quietly I might add, just removed App functionality from iTunes...

        Just noticed that - but for some time my Apple devices haven't sync'd apps with iTunes anyway, so they've all needed to download separately. Apple is absolutely crap at explaining the rationale behind this sort of change, or indeed even mentioning changes at all.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Did you expect anything else from Apple?

        And not forgetting that Apple, very quietly I might add, just removed App functionality from iTunes.

        I had not seen that, but I just checked and, frankly, it sucks. Now, according to Apple, you have to use iTunes as some sort of loading mechanism for apps that are no longer available from the App Store. It's an ugly fudge and it is the opposite of user friendly. I'm going to have a look at iMazing to see if that offers any help (if it wasn't so useful I would refuse to install it with that name), but that has an update underway as well so I'm not holding up much hope.

        I'm actually going to email Apple, asking them if I can have the previous iTunes back. If enough people do that it may help.

  23. Z80

    Look into the light

    I thought this was quite a striking image from Anandtech's coverage:

    http://images.anandtech.com/doci/11833/ssp_618_575px.jpg

    My caption would be:

    iPhone X: "You've made a very good decision."

    Girl: "I've made a very good decision."

  24. Matt Fowler

    face-scan in non-voluntary situations?

    I wonder how the face-scanning will play out in "police demand you unlock your phone for them" situations.

    In legal terms it's likely to fall in the same category as fingerprint-unlock (not eligible for US 5th Amendment protections as it's not something-you-know), but I wonder how it will play out technically.

    Also, will it unlock on a sleeping / unconscious face?

    1. Mystic Megabyte Silver badge
      Pirate

      Re: face-scan in non-voluntary situations?

      Also, will it unlock on a sleeping / unconscious face/ dead?

      FTFY

    2. Dave 126 Silver badge

      Re: face-scan in non-voluntary situations?

      > I wonder how the face-scanning will play out in "police demand you unlock your phone for them" situations.

      Same as for fingerprint unlocking: if you tap the hone button (or with the X, the power button) five times, the phone will require a passcode instead of a fingerprint.

      And no, the phone won't unlock unless you are looking at it, so won't work on sleeping people.

  25. nanchatte

    Overpriced? Perhaps... But we'll soon see what the market will bear.

    So when the govt. steps in to regulate pricing you guys are all like boo hiss govt.intervention etc... "let the free market speak."

    And when a company sets an arbitrary price for something you're like "it's overpriced culttards."

    How would you know if it overpriced? It's not even on sale yet. If you were a successful billionaire yourself, I'd be inclined to think you had some handle on the situation, but as you're writing an article for an online publication, I'll assume (perhaps wrongly) that you're not and you don't.

    If you like the free market so much, let it speak and it will tell you whether the phone was overpriced or not. If it massively undersells and they end up marking it down after 6 months then, yeah, perhaps.

  26. This post has been deleted by its author

  27. mc nobby

    Apple Town Square

    Is it just me , or have Apple found a way to brand open space?

    a Town square by the 1950's definition that apple seem to live and die by, would be open space

    And no I don't fancy rocking up the the 'genius grove' with my android phone, I thought I was going to be dragged screaming from the Apple store the last time I took my phone out there.

  28. Barry Rueger Silver badge

    Animoji

    I'll stick with Olde Fashioned Texte Moji.

  29. mr_souter_Working

    Face ID

    will it work in near total darkness first thing in the morning, when your head is half buried in the pillow, and you are struggling to wake up?

    will it work when you are bundled up against the elements and have most of your face covered?

    but seriously, an ID system that only works if you have your face uncovered and are looking at the phone?

    seems like the wet dream of some NSA analyst.

    and wireless charging? how many years late to the party? are we supposed to be impressed that they finally caught up?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Face ID

      No iPhone X for Muslim women then...

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Face ID

        No iPhone X for Muslim women then...

        It has a PIN/password fallback.

      2. HelpfulJohn

        Re: Face ID

        "No iPhone X for Muslim women then..."

        Why not? Black hoodies can be photographed and the eyes might differentiate individuals.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Face ID

      will it work in near total darkness first thing in the morning, when your head is half buried in the pillow, and you are struggling to wake up?

      It uses IR for the imaging, so light levels are not an issue.

      will it work when you are bundled up against the elements and have most of your face covered?

      Is that really the time you want to use your phone? Answering is still possible. Or maybe this is just an attempt to make you buy the watch. In addition, it still has a PIN backup.

  30. FuzzyWuzzys Silver badge
    Facepalm

    ' "Animoji" icons that match the emoji's expression to your own face. '

    Hmmm, sounds lot like an idea they had on the comedy show The Big Bang Theory to give a character the ability to understand other's emotions....Apple are just amazing, where do they get their ideas from!

  31. kmac499

    Come on people get with the programme.

    Apple needs to sell lots of these little suckers so they can afford to buy the warp drive engines Area 51 got from the aliens. Then they can strap them on to their shiny new building (secret spaceship) and take off for Alpha whatever.

    Please Please tell me some where on t'interweb there is a photoshopped picture of the 'campus' with a construction board saying "B Ark due for completion soon"

  32. Potemkine! Silver badge

    Baah-Baah

    If people are stupid enough to pay so much for any new shiny hardware with an apple on it, why should Apple stop to take their money?

  33. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Am I the only one who couldn't give a fuck about this or are there others out there ?

  34. Banksy

    iPhone IX

    So the IX is probably going to look like the X?

    What is the advantage of a glass back supposed to be?

    1. Naselus

      Re: iPhone IX

      The glass back is easier for Qi to pass through. It's actually a practical consideration. I can only imagine the scale of Sir Ive's tantrum over engineers dictating elements of his design.

      1. Dave 126 Silver badge

        Re: iPhone IX

        Jony Ive has always considered manufacturing, since his student days onwards.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: iPhone IX

          Jony Ive has always considered manufacturing

          To judge by the number of scratched and cracked iPhones that I've seen, maybe he should turn his talent to the ownership experience, and the dismal durability of his creations. And whilst he's at it, he could have a look at that antediluvian UI.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: iPhone IX

        I can only imagine the scale of Sir Ive's tantrum over engineers dictating elements of his design.

        The products Apple are churning out indicate that Ive gave up designing for Apple a long time ago.

    2. nijam

      Re: iPhone IX

      > What is the advantage of a glass back supposed to be?

      So they can claim the Google Pixel copied it.

  35. trisul

    Overpriced?

    Years back, I paid that much for a Nokia 8810 and was happy with it before it broke. The iPhone X certainly has much more to offer than Nokia 8810 ever did, so what if you can buy a cheaper phone, even from Apple?

    It's like saying a Bugatti is just overprice, because you can get a cheap Kia that drives you around in comfort. What sort of argument is this?

    This is supposedly a tech rag, yet the neural network in silicon means nothing to the author, a $200 premium is all they are willing to discuss. This is like reading the advertising rag slipped under my door by the local supermarket.

    Get real.

  36. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Keats: A thing of beauty is a joy forever--no, wait, what?

    If you've just dropped $1000 on a phone, you'll probably be quite keen on not breaking it. Which means that pretty glass thing is going to be shrouded in a case almost immediately, no? At which point, what was the point?

    I commend Apple for making good looking objects, but in this case, I'd wager that well north of 99.9% of iPhone Xs will be wearing a plastic burqa in no time.

    I'm also curious if it is possible to steal an unlocked iPhone X by grabbing it, punching the victim, and then quickly showing them the phone so that their face unlocks it. Hmm, must try it out sometime...

    1. Triggerfish

      Re: Keats: A thing of beauty is a joy forever--no, wait, what?

      If you've just dropped $1000 on a phone, you'll probably be quite keen on not breaking it. Which means that pretty glass thing is going to be shrouded in a case almost immediately, no? At which point, what was the point?

      Merely anecdotal but most iphone owners seem less likely to have a case from what I have noticed.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Keats: A thing of beauty is a joy forever--no, wait, what?

        Merely anecdotal but most iphone owners seem less likely to have a case from what I have noticed.

        I've noticed that. And a hell of a lot of cracked iPhone screens that they're in no hurry to pay to have replaced.

        1. Triggerfish

          Re: Keats: A thing of beauty is a joy forever--no, wait, what?

          I've noticed that. And a hell of a lot of cracked iPhone screens that they're in no hurry to pay to have replaced.

          Seen em broke, seen em repaired, seen em carried without a case again, seen em broke etc. Pretty sure many screens get repaired and go through this cycle. But yes the amount of shiny apple phones I have seen with big sodding cracks across the screen making all that design loveliness moot, it's like admiring the design of a Ferrari post crash with the bin lorry.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Keats: A thing of beauty is a joy forever--no, wait, what?

        Merely anecdotal but most iphone owners seem less likely to have a case from what I have noticed.

        Not me, usually I even have the case before the phone. I have no need to show the world that I have an iPhone, I need a device to work with so I am quite happy to stick it in a case. That also has major benefits when upgrading: as my phones have always lived in a case with a matte (oleophobic) screen protector they look as new when I sell or trade them in for an upgrade, which considerably adds to their return value.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Keats: A thing of beauty is a joy forever--no, wait, what?

      If you've just dropped $1000 on a phone, you'll probably be quite keen on not breaking it. Which means that pretty glass thing is going to be shrouded in a case almost immediately, no? At which point, what was the point?

      Apple making a profit on cases too? Maybe that's the reason they made the case so thin that the camera lenses stick out and are thus liable to catch on almost anything - personally I would have made it all level and used the extra space for more battery power. Maybe that's a better (and less costly) mod than retrofitting an earphone socket to an iPhone 7? In any case (pardon the pun), I agree that this will be wearing a jacket in no time. That said, I've done that with my phones for, well, forever, because I protect my gear by default so it's an expected imposition anyway :).

      I'm also curious if it is possible to steal an unlocked iPhone X by grabbing it, punching the victim, and then quickly showing them the phone so that their face unlocks it. Hmm, must try it out sometime...

      Nope. They use the same system as when you try to change the password/PIN: you first have to provide again the password/PIN before it allows you to change it, so you'll need to keep the face around for longer (you're better off using the XKCD $5 wrench method and get the backup password :) ). I wonder how well they can be taken apart for parts, because that's really what determines their "theft worthiness", if there is such a word. Changing ownership without the owner's collaboration is very hard (it's even quite an effort to do WITH the owner's help if you've ever sold a iThing to someone else, you need to be quite meticulous).

  37. Anonymous Coward
    Meh

    In summary...

    ...a Samsung phone running WinPhone OS all wrapped up in a dated interface.

    Still Emoji's eh?

  38. David 138

    Apple stores always remind me of pebble dashed council houses. Ugly, Grey and full of cheap furniture and overpriced Tech. So does this mean that the new town centre will be like their shared gardens? Overgrown and full off weeds, a knackers sofa and some car parts?

  39. eSeM

    I Can Wait ....

    I think I will wait for next years XS

    :-)

  40. Andy 97

    I'm just glad to see that Apple hasn't lost touch with it's customers in these austere times.

    It's a phone, with a PDA function and if it wasn't for Android being the satanic love child of Google, we'd all be using [them] instead.

    Some marketing plonker must have done too much coke methinks.

  41. jmch Silver badge
    WTF?

    Watch cellular??

    "As the Watch requires an iPhone, the data consumption will be handled through the phone contract."

    How does that work? If I understand the description, ie Watch's data consumption is taken from iPhone contract, and also presumably both phone and watch have the same phone number... but they each have a seperate SIM?

    I thought multiple SIMs with the same number was a big no-no in GSM, or has that changed? If I call a number linked to multiple SIMs, how does the cellular network handle that? Will both devices ring?

    1. AMBxx Silver badge

      Re: Watch cellular??

      I was thinking the same thing. I have a backup phone (Lumia 520) that takes a different size SIM to most modern phones. Means mucking about with adaptors if I need to use it. The idea of having 2 phones with the same number looks great.

      Maybe the forced connection between the two is the price of having a 2nd SIM on the same number?

    2. Dave123

      Re: Watch cellular??

      Multiple devices with the same number has been supported for a long time. It's usually implemented using IN/CAMEL or for termination services only via functionality on the HLR. Most networks didn't bother investing in this type of functionality as their focus shifted to providing faster data services instead.

  42. Charlie Clark Silver badge

    The Apple Galaxy X?

    Samsung's marketing department is going to have lots of fun with this.

  43. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Disappointed with the BS

    Come on, "deep" pixels? WTF? I like the idea of local facial recognition capabilities because that has at least not the issue with leaving the biometrics where you can get them (on the shiny case with TouchID) - until someone finds a way to record enough data. I'm betting Hamburg's CCC will be about the first to try, and possibly succeed :).

    I hope it's accurate enough that it won't work after US Customs has been working you over to get you to unlock the phone, but in any case Id' switch it off for those occasions and revert back to a password or PIN as that is legally protected. Just in case you make the mistake of crossing the US border with confidential information..

    In general it was interesting, although as always I had to wrestle with a profound allergy for their overuse of stock phrases like "amazing", "fantastic" et al, as the nation I hail from shares with UK Northerners a profound distaste for this kind of self-preening. I presume the US needs this, but it sure as hell would create the wrong impression in a boardroom meeting with our company.

    Was there anything *new*? Umm, apart from the facial recognition thingie and VR that seems to work well and hopefully precise enough to support medical applications (imagine an MRI projected prior to surgery) not so much, it was all more a progression, like the upcoming 18 core iMac. So, lots of evolution, not so much revolution.

    BTW, I don't WANT phones to have better and louder speakers - there are already enough idiots playing songs on handsfree and ignoring years of sound engineering by holding the phone at a 45º angle and talking into its edge whilst on handsfree. Killing that off via angle detection and a mandatory 2 hour video lesson on the progress made in dual mic echo and environment cancellation techniques before it could be used again would have been more beneficial, but that's just me before coffee.

  44. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    reads your face and works even if you grow a beard

    no problem unlocking your ifone for the feds any more. Hurrah...

  45. Mr Dogshit

    I don't care

  46. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Trying to be realistic here...

    £1,000 is a small price to pay for an Apple phone. From the Apple marketing material I've read, it's clear to me that the iPhone X will literally be the best phone in the world, until Apple bring out the iPhone Xs. And consider all the technology in this phone that literally hasn't been seen on any other phone ever: facial recognition, 3d touch, near edge-to-edge screen, Super Retina OLED, wireless charging, no physical home button. Then look at iOS, the best-in-class operating system ever made by far. This has so many technical capabilities never before seen in a consumer device, that listing them is almost an exercise in futility. Google must be wondering where they went wrong.

    I'm literally crying tears from my eyes for those of you who I'll never meet who don't own iPhones. I can't imagine how grey and empty your lives must be - it's like you're staring at the blasted plains of your emptiness, unaware that Apple's sun is kissing your shoulders. Every time you look at your phone you must sigh within. Whereas every time I look at my iPhone, I smile and laugh. I'm doing it now. I wish you could see me.

    I'll certainly be buying a couple of X's as soon as I can - £2,000 is a small price to pay for riding the crest of the wave of the future in the present. Apple should've priced this phone higher. I suspect that no other firms will sell a single phone in the coming year. Apple has the entire mobile phone market captured, and I for one, am excited to be a proud foot soldier in Apple's army! Lead on, General Cook, lead on!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Trying to be realistic here...

      You know, that's not a bad bit of baiting.

      I'm scoring that an 8 out of 10. Well done :).

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Trying to be realistic here...

        I don't think it was baiting. More like... pastiche.

  47. BugabooSue

    One more thing -

    For a phone - that is bloody stupid money!

    For a top-of-the-range miniaturised portable computer/entertainment device that can also make phone calls, I don’t think it is a totally unreasonable price.

    If you don’t use it as such, dont get upset, just don’t buy one.

    However, I use my 6S+ 128GB to carry endless ‘stacks’ of PDF’s and tech manuals that I need for my job (better than lugging around a 1kg laptop!), but sadly that is way too rich for me.

    The way things are going, job-wise, I’d need the 256GB to carry everything - I’m not made of money. I’ll have to keep using my trusty 500GB Satellite drive as auxiliary storage then.

    Fanboi or not, it’s a nice COMPUTER: if you can afford it.

    1. Charlie Clark Silver badge

      Re: One more thing -

      However, I use my 6S+ 128GB to carry endless ‘stacks’ of PDF’s and tech manuals

      On a fucking phone? Sell the I-Phone, go Android and get an e-reader with good PDF support and save your eyes!

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: One more thing -

        On a fucking phone? Sell the I-Phone, go Android and get an e-reader with good PDF support and save your eyes!

        I agree, I've tried that too and it's far from ideal. I also tried it with a Kindle Paperwhite, but the search and doc management on that is rubbish (it's the 21st century and we still cannot group categories of files together? WTF?). It's a shame because its very low power needs would have been useful.

        In the end I settled on an iPad with a file manager (I use FileApp, but there are plenty more), and I expect that an Android based tablet will get you there even cheaper.

    2. IsJustabloke Silver badge
      Meh

      Re: One more thing -

      "6S+ 128GB"

      Why did you feel the need to exactly specify which phone you were using?

      Why not just say "I use my iPhone to....."

      The only time I ever refer to the make / model of a phone is when I'm differentiating it from the one I'm currently using in conversation...

      IE "Well, I had a sammy and it didn't do *thing* but this one *holding up my mobey* does"

      I'm genuinely curious

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: One more thing -

        Why did you feel the need to exactly specify which phone you were using?

        Maybe a somewhat clumsy way to illustrate just how many docs he's lugging along in that phone? iPhones lack a decent file manager so you'd need an app unless you use the built-in reader thing, and it's actually quite a job to work out how much space something takes.

        Alternatively it is to show off, of course, but that sort of p*ssing contest always ends up with discovering someone else who can throw more money at it. I'm willing to bet there are already a tonne of people drooling to get the iPhone X for no other reason that they can show off with it, not because it can do some amazing things (I'd be quite interested to see what else I could do with the facial recognition, but I have better use for such a lump of money, like getting an LG 43UD79 monitor :) ).

        1. HelpfulJohn

          Re: One more thing -

          "I'd be quite interested to see what else I could do with the facial recognition"

          It's just a random thought but if it recognises faces, why not other body parts? Such as, for an example plucked at random, the bits girls on the Internet so dearly love getting images of.

          It may make paying for stuff a little iffy but your security would be better.

  48. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Getting rid of the fingerprint sensor is moronic

    I have a £180 Moto G4 Plus which as a fingerprint sensor. I leave it on my desk and occasionally put a finger on the sensor to check texts, emails etc (and the time, more often than I realise) - But the phone is facing the ceiliing and my face is not in its filed of view - so a face based unlock would not work and would require me picking the wretched thing up and pointing it at me.

    Also, I realise that usually I've unlocked the phone in the time from getting it out of my pocket and in front of me, because I can feel where the sensor is and have already got one of the three registered thumbs/fingers on it.

    This move is, as someone above said, purely form over function. How far can they push people before they realise they are playing for beautiful* junk?

    *Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. If you are willing to drop £1k for this, you'd better think it's beautiful...

    1. Dave 126 Silver badge

      Re: Getting rid of the fingerprint sensor is moronic

      Getting rid of the fingerprint reader is just a stop-gap solution until an under-screen sensor is perfected. Samsung had a similar issue on the Galaxy 8, and so clumsily placed the fingerprint reader next to the rear camera.

      The X is just to take some money off the people who want exotica - like the Mii Mix. And hey, why not? Samsung are struggling to get yields up on the iPhone X's screen, so supplies are limited... Apple don't have that many to sell.

      Others can choose other models.

  49. WibbleMe

    Bwahahah.... NO!

  50. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    £1000 for the phone ?

    I hate to think how much it will cost to replace the glass when it gets broken, that will be two mortgages you'll be paying for.

    71% of the World's population lives on less than $10 a day.

  51. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Choice

    I just wish there were options other than Apple versus Android ..... I trust Google even less than I trust Apple with my data, and so I'll stay on the trailing edge of Apple's product offerings ... and stick with my old 6s which seems perfectly adequate to me ....

  52. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I still find it amazing how people who don't care for Apple stuff still take the time to talk about how much they hate Apple, recycle the same Tim Cook and Steve Jobs jokes, talk of lack of innovation blah blah.

    We all know Apple is a corporation that make overpriced stuff, some of which is good, whilst some of it is garbage. Same as any other large organisation really.

    What I really don't get is why people get so upset about the price, and then have to list all the features that their super duper XYZ phone has and the iPhone doesn't, and then point out their phone only costs the same as a packet of crisps.

    Apple are a premium brand that charge eye watering prices, it's nothing new...is it justified? Well, that's subjective of course depending on your financial position and your list of feature requirements.

  53. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Oh No!

    I just paid €160 for a Xiaomi.

    I'm such a fool.

    How will I ever live my life without a €1000 phone?

    Sad.

  54. CBN

    So, that's some people who can't use it then...

    Great! So anyone wearing something that obscures their face won't be able to unlock their phone. Examples that spring to mind immediately: motor bike helmet, niqab or burka.

    Overpriced phone for the trendy wannabes.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: So, that's some people who can't use it then...

      I would actually not use the facial unlock, but that's because I don't like biometrics in general (nor will I use NFC based payment systems, but I'm just picky that way).

      Facial unlock in not the only thing this phone offers, though, but it is IMHO FAR too early to buy one. I would not even consider buying this phone until at least half a year has passed and all the hardware and software bugs have been shaken out. Apple generally does a good job on new kit, but I think it's just good practice.

      In addition, it means less queueing :).

  55. Unicornpiss Silver badge
    Meh

    Thinner..

    The NEXT iPhone will be so thin you'll be able to shave with it. (feature!) It will come with a glove like falconers use to prevent injury, and for an extra $200, the iStrop to keep it cutting edge. Airports will ban it.

    Seriously though... $1K for a phone? And damn, it looks fragile. I'm sure a lot of people that need therapy IMHO will buy it, but you can get a pretty decent tablet PC for that. Or a drivable used car. Or a couple of months rent in an okay apartment. Or 200 pints of good beer, which will probably bring you enjoyment for longer than takes for buyer's remorse to set in for iPhoneX customers.

    Facial recognition to unlock? I've no doubt they've improved it somewhat, but my Galaxy S5 had that in 2013. While it worked reasonably well, you looked like an idiot staring at your phone to unlock. It's like a selfie passport photo every time you need to access your phone.

  56. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "Animoji" icons that match the emoji's expression to your own face.

    When I imagine the man-hours that probably went into developing that feature, I can't help but think of the last days of Rome.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: "Animoji" icons that match the emoji's expression to your own face.

      Yes, it deserves the poo emoji for that alone.

      I mean, it's a phone. It's a highly clever, technical device that has lots of crafty new ideas and then they have to add that sh*te, and worse, even boast about it? If I had bothered to develop this at all I would have quietly stuck it for people to find, not get tech leaders to make fools of themselves with it.

      I'm interested in the new tech they have in the X, but the facial logon is problematic for me. I am willing to be surprised, but I have a feeling that won't work quite as fluid as they sought to demonstrate. If I spend that sort of money (well, let's be honest, it's more "if I find a way to write it off") I'll try it, but I suspect I'd soon be back to using a 6 digit PIN like I have now (not using TouchID either).

    2. Updraft102 Silver badge

      Re: "Animoji" icons that match the emoji's expression to your own face.

      Not being a ten year old Japanese girl, I don't have any use for emojis. I've never had to see one in an actual attempted communication until a week or two ago, when one of the commenters on a tech site sprinkled a bunch of them in instead of actual words (which would have worked even better-- the damned message looked like a rebus). My browser and Windows happily cooperated, displaying the idiotic things in color (but thankfully not animated).

      The first impulse I had was to get... this... crap... out... of... my... computer. I found it offensive that Mozilla and Microsoft thought it appropriate to transmit this idiotic buffoonery to me without any optiion to turn it off.

      Upon a quick google (using it that way because Google said it was bad, heh), I found tons of people asking the same thing, yet there's no simple way to do it in newer Windows versions. You WILL have emojis, damn you!

      I found that by substituting fonts in the registry, I was able to vanquish the color ones at the very least, replacing them with less annoying text glyphs. Trying to go further than that resulted in "unknown character" boxes all over the place in Windows, replacing many UI elements. Overkill, I think. At least the color ones are gone, and I've used .css to replace emojis with the unknown character boxes while browsing. If a person wants to use stupid little pictures to try to be cute while communicating, I'd rather see a bunch of meaningless boxes and move on to the next message.

      So... yeah, Apple, big swing and miss with this one, for me at least. Same for the face recognition... I would need to use a pin or password to authenticate anyway, and that being the case, I would rather have a fingerprint reader as the second factor. Instead of a password or pin... no way.

  57. naive

    Apple X/Android.... An IWC Da Vinci can go into the high 5 digits

    Still just displays the time, and even needs constant movement to work at all.

    Is it a bad deal ?... maybe not for those who appreciate the skill required to build it, and the statement it makes.

    People spending $ 1000 on an iPhone may have the same incentives as somebody spending $ 50,000 on an object which has the same functionality as one that can be bought for $ 50.

    The fact that the $ 50 watch exists, doesn't make the Da Vinci a bad watch, it is just different.

  58. stu 4

    Selfie hell

    So now

    1. everytime someone uses this they need to selfie themselves. wtf

    2. want access to your partners phone ? fine, just point it at there sleeping face.

    3. lets see how it's gonna work with burkas.

    what a load of emperors new clothes mince. My S7 has higher res, a finger print scanner that works, and an SDcard slot. Oh.. and cost be 350 quid.

    1. Grant Mitchell

      Re: Selfie hell

      1. Only you are not taking a selfie. And everyone keeps telling me android has done this for years (so we must already be living in this hell - as I'm also told Android is far more popular).

      2. Because you couldn't touch the phone against their finger as they sleep? And... if that worries you, turn on the attention feature - unless you sleep with your eyes open you should be ok.

      3. About as well as touch id with gloves. Sometimes you may need to use pin/password. Live with it.

      Enjoy your phone. I'll enjoy mine, without the need to mock others for their choices. Personally having used Android, it's not for me (inconsistent interface - perhaps due to carrier/manufacturers bolt ons, etc. but I like keyboards to be consistent, have things in the same place, etc, not to change based on where I am in the interface), but that's my opinion, and I feel no need to impose it on you - but reserve the right to call you out for inaccuracies and a need to force your opinion on others.

  59. johnnyblaze

    They'll get away with it

    I think in some ways we can all believe Apple are one of the new companies who can get away with the price they're asking for this 'X' thing. They actually seem to believe they're invincible, and feed on their own hype and marketing. In reality, it's all a very carefully stage-managed con job, but Apple are very good at it, and the faithfull believe it completely. The X will sell, but the 8 (a tweaked iPhone 7) is the fall back device. The X is really nothing more than Apple testing the market to see how far they can push prices before consumers push back. If this is successful, they'll just increase from there, and still cream 50%+ profit per handset.

    Me, I'm happy with my Moto G5 Plus - £200 thankyou very much. Very fast, great screen, good camera, 2+ day battery life. Apple can shove 'X' where the sun don't shine.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: They'll get away with it

      I think in some ways we can all believe Apple are one of the new companies who can get away with the price they're asking for this 'X' thing. They actually seem to believe they're invincible, and feed on their own hype and marketing. In reality, it's all a very carefully stage-managed con job, but Apple are very good at it, and the faithfull believe it completely.

      Yes, they strongly remind me of UK's Psion in its heyday. Those things were also seriously overpriced but they got away with it because there was initially nil competition. Later you had things like the Agenda, but that's where the userfriendliness of the internal software came to the fore.

  60. anthonyhegedus Silver badge

    Face ID is not my kind of security actually

    Sounds great. But what about having someone lift your phone out of your pocket, and then just point it at your face to unlock it? Sounds much easier than grabbing your finger and forcing you to unlock your phone that way.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Face ID is not my kind of security actually

      As far as I can tell from the demo you are required to actually look at it. In other words, if someone tries to lift your phone, you have just shown them that you have it :). Worse, you may have just managed an unlock, but you cannot change the locking facilities without that face again, or the PIN.

      In other words, you either get yourself a Mission Impossible mask made of the owner or it remains a problem.

  61. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

    "ecks" or ten?

    Apple might want us to think that iPhone X is pronounced iPhone 10, but I wonder how many people will follow that instruction? There's no context to indicate that X is a roman 10 and no "tradition" of the use of roman numerals other than OSX (which I invariably hear pronounced by most people as "Oh Es Ecks" anyway)

    Was OS 9 ever called OS "icks" (South Africans talking about OSX aside :-)) Will the next OS or iPhone be XI, pronounced chi or eleven? Greek or Chinese pronunciation of Xi?

    1. Updraft102 Silver badge

      Re: "ecks" or ten?

      "no "tradition" of the use of roman numerals other than OSX (which I invariably hear pronounced by most people as "Oh Es Ecks" anyway)"

      You mean that's not right? I've always thought that was how it was pronounced (not being an Apple user, I don't really have much reason to pronounce it or hear it pronounced; most of my exposure to it is in written form), and it sounds a lot slicker than "Oh ess ten." I mean, if you don't want it to be "oh ess ecks," why write it that way? "OS10" is only one more keypress. They picked "OSX" because it looks cooler, so it follows that the pronunciation matches the text.

      1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

        Re: "ecks" or ten?

        "They picked "OSX" because it looks cooler, so it follows that the pronunciation matches the text."

        FYI, I've also always, and still do, call it Oh Ess Ecks, but that, apparently, is incorrect.

  62. Nathan 13

    Not for me

    My Redmi note 4 cost £120 and works just fine and does nearly everything that the new Iphone does.

    Plus if it gets stolen or I drop it and smash it up I will be 8 times less upset.

  63. Marty McFly
    FAIL

    iPhone has jumped the shark.

    Just my humble opinion. Voting with my wallet.

  64. kmac499

    The alternative Model X

    A rough BTE calculation about

    75 Apple iPhone X = 1 Tesla Model X

    Or another way an all electric SUV with shit hot performance and genuine innovative design or a cardboard box of phones that double as mediocre pocket computers.

    I can't afford either, but I know which I'd have if I could, and it wouldn't have a half eaten fruit on the back.

  65. Howard Hanek Bronze badge
    Childcatcher

    Preferred Booty

    Well, we now know what the perferred booty of muggers will be won't we?

  66. Howard Hanek Bronze badge
    Linux

    The World's 'Town Square'

    You mean like the daily circus in Times Square Tim? Well you certainly DO have the spirit of the thing picking everyone's pocket.

  67. John 104

    Starting at $1000

    TL:DR all the posts, but I haven't seen anyone mention this. The X starts at 1k. This will likely buy you the 32 or 64GB version. To get more storage, it will be $1,200 or more. Just wait.

  68. ITnoob

    If you want to see a full-on, Apple fanboy/girl down voting frenzy then I suggest you head over to Ars Technica - https://arstechnica.co.uk/gadgets/2017/09/iphone-x-hands-on/

    Just mentioning Samsung get you -100 :)

    1. John 104

      @ITNoob.

      Wow. Lot of fur flying in that thread! Thought I was on Gizmodo for a minute

  69. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Steve Jobs must be rolling in his wicker casket.

  70. The Central Scrutinizer

    $1829 rrp in Australia. Never ever.... it's a phone!

  71. steviebuk Silver badge

    "Genius Groves"

    Will these be where you get your smashed glass repaired at a massive markup compared to the independent repair stores? The independent repair stores that the likes of Apple have been trying to destroy and are trying to fight the "Right to Repair" legislation.

  72. Nathan 13

    I can see

    Muslim women demanding "Iphone Unlock privacy booths" be built every 50 yards down all roads.

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