back to article UK not as keen on mobile wallets as mainland Europe and US

The UK is lagging behind other countries in mobile wallet adoption, according to a new survey out today. Consumers in the US and Europe are catching up with those in fast-growing economies in Asia and Latin America where mobile wallets have already become the dominant payment platform, according to an online survey of 6,000 …

  1. Halfmad

    So?

    We've convenient payment systems many other countries haven't adopted to the same scale, tap to pay, chip and pin are fairly rare in the US.

    I don't need to keep my card charged up for it to work either unlike a phone.

    1. Captain Hogwash Silver badge

      Re: I don't need to keep my card charged up

      You also know it is not distributing funds to persons unknown behind your back.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: So?

      Completely agree. We've got systems which work and are convenient and relatively secure. If I lived in India I might look on it differently due to their infrastructure and banking system.

      To add to that I find it hard to believe anyone who understands the environment would feel that their phone is secure.

      So, for me I've got no reason to want to use my phone as some sort of "wallet" on top of which I don't trust it (I'm an Android user but I don't think iOS is much better).

    3. Tom 38 Silver badge

      Re: So?

      Compared to what they use in the US, chip and pin is an onerous and time consuming task. Type in a PIN or sign a bit of paper? Nope, just swipe the card and leave....

      1. Tom 38 Silver badge
        WTF?

        Re: So?

        I don't normally ask for downvote explanations, but wtf? Am I missing something? In the US, you do just swipe your card, no PIN, no signature, no nothing. This is obviously a more convenient system for paying, but is also obviously insecure.

        Point being, just because a country has a more convenient system of paying doesn't mean that every other country will flock to follow it, there are more reasons than convenience for using a payment method.

        1. PacketPusher
          Meh

          Re: So?

          While you can make small purchases with just a card swipe, many vendors still require a signature. I can make a $20 purchase at Safeway with just a swipe, but If I buy more at $50 or $60, then they want a signature. Some, mostly smaller companies, still require signatures even for small purchases. I do wish they would expand requires for PINs as I believe that it is better than my scrawl for verifying transactions. At this point, only my Target card has a PIN.

      2. jmch Silver badge

        Re: So?

        "...chip and pin is an onerous and time consuming task..."

        Yeah, God forbid you have to spend an extra 10 seconds at a checkout, when you could be using that time to make the world a better place.

        Let's be f***ing serious here, coal mining is an onerous and time consuming task. Or mowing someone else's lawn or cleaning their house for minimum wage, or sewing their clothes in a sweatshop in Bangladesh that might collapse at any moment.

        Get a grip, mate!

        1. Tom 38 Silver badge

          Re: So?

          Yeah, God forbid you have to spend an extra 10 seconds at a checkout, when you could be using that time to make the world a better place.

          Let's be f***ing serious here, coal mining is an onerous and time consuming task.

          Foam a bit more, you completely missed the point. Compared to swipe and leave [kudos on trimming the quotation to omit that part], chip + pin is onerous, but that doesn't mean that we should move to swipe and leave. There is more to choosing authorization mechanisms for payment cards than convenience.

          But no, keep frothing, a bit more hyperbole. Sigh.

        2. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

          Re: So?

          "Yeah, God forbid you have to spend an extra 10 seconds at a checkout, when you could be using that time to make the world a better place."

          I think he was being ironic. I know, I know, it's a bit hard to believe that a USAian can do irony, but the internet is making the world a smaller place and even they can learn stuff :-)

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: So?

      And you don't know if your NFC card has been 'scanned' by someone walking alongside you in the street.

      Do you keep yours in a NFC/RFID blocking wallet? I'll bet you don't.

      If you don't then it is vunerable to being scanned and then cloned. ID Theft at it's most basic.

      1. John 78

        Re: So?

        I use one of these RFID blocker cards :-

        http://www.dmscardbureau.co.uk/shop/rfid-protector-card/

      2. Justicesays

        Re: So?

        "Do you keep yours in a NFC/RFID blocking wallet? I'll bet you don't.

        If you don't then it is vunerable to being scanned and then cloned. ID Theft at it's most basic.

        "

        Two points.

        1) "NFC blocking wallets" don't work unless you earth your wallet. They might mitigate the signal from a regular reader enough to stop it, but a up-powered nfc reader would get through no problem.

        2) You cant clone an NFC's secure information store unless you can break public/private key encryption, as that's what the exchange is based on. Cheap door access systems might just use the public element, but payment systems don't (some.might use crap encryption.like that dutch tram company though)

    5. big_D Silver badge

      Re: So?

      I also note that Germany isn't in the list.

      We also have tap to pay on our debit cards, but most places still don't take credit cards - debt is still a four letter word. Most people still pay cash or at worst use their debit card.

      As the credit card is linked directly to the bank account and automatically debits 100% of the balance at the end of the month, credit cards have little value over debit cards, currently.

      1. Dan 55 Silver badge

        Re: So?

        Well, there's sale of goods which aren't as described where you can claim a refund from your credit card, insurance, and fraudulent transactions don't get taken from your bank account.

        1. BoldMan

          Re: So?

          Which is just more bloody work that I'd rather avoid having to do when I can use a chip and pin card that doesn't leak my hard-earned cash to anyone with a scanner

        2. big_D Silver badge

          Re: So?

          @Dan 55

          No, no sale of goods refund or insurance on credit cards here.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: So?

        "As the credit card is linked directly to the bank account and automatically debits 100% of the balance at the end of the month, credit cards have little value over debit cards, currently."

        I don't know about Germany, but in the UK if you do *all* your shopping on a credit card and pay it off each month, you can earn interest on the money still in your bank account, and earn some sort of reward from the credit card too. e.g. if you're going to be taking the kids on a day out anyway, you might as well do it using tesco's "days out" vouchers and get it for free, so long as the places you spend your money don't charge extra for using a credit card or debit card.

        And there's better consumer protection when using a credit card for large purchases than with a debit card too...

        1. big_D Silver badge

          Re: So?

          Interest rates are pretty much zero at the moment and no loyalty points etc. on credit cards.

          The only possible reason to use a credit card in "everyday life" in Germany is if you are travelling on business and waiting for the expense claim to be paid, before you can clear the balance or it is an emergency and you need to give out the money today and can't get to the bank to transfer money from a savings account.

        2. Charlie Clark Silver badge

          Re: So?

          I don't know about Germany, but in the UK if you do *all* your shopping on a credit card and pay it off each month, you can earn interest on the money still in your bank account

          That's a big if and it competely ignores the fact that credit card companies charge shops fairly hefty fees. I know quite a few shops that will offer a discount if I don't use a credit card.

        3. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

          Re: So?

          "earn interest on the money still in your bank account"

          At current interest rates? ROFL.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Bank interest rates

            Bizarrely, right now there are a number of UK current accounts which pay substantially better interest rates (maybe "only" on balances up to a couple of thousand pounds or so, but, still) than almost all savings accounts do at present!

      3. Charlie Clark Silver badge

        Re: So?

        We also have tap to pay on our debit cards, but most places still don't take credit cards

        And Visa's attempt to get in with the hipsters is a complete fucking joke. But we might not have much of a choice as BAFin is pushing phone-based authentication as a prelude to scrapping cash.

        Replacing cash with purely electronic currency will fulfil the central bankers' dream of being able to devaluate at will that bit closer.

      4. Zmodem

        Re: So?

        "As the credit card is linked directly to the bank account and automatically debits 100% of the balance at the end of the month, credit cards have little value over debit cards, currently."

        thats a debit card, a credit is the company lending you money and then you paying interest on the amount if you don't pay the money back within the interest free time

        1. Dan 55 Silver badge

          Re: So?

          It's still a credit card even if you always pay it off at the end of the month, they have still lent you money for up to a month.

        2. Happy_Jack

          Re: So?

          Sounds more like a charge card to me.

        3. Vetis

          Re: So?

          I just asked my bank for a card without rfid\no contactless feature in it and got one.

      5. jmch Silver badge

        Re: So?

        "credit cards have little value over debit cards"

        As you say, zou can set it up to pay 100% of the balance every month and not pay any interest, but paying with CC you get some protection on purchases and some CCs offer bonuses for frequent/high use. From a consumer point of view, better use a CC and pay it off promptly than use a Debit Card.

        On the other hand, shops would prefer DC because their bank charges are lower than with CC

        1. big_D Silver badge

          Re: So?

          @jmch Not in Germany, in general. All the credit cards I have had are directly linked to the current account and the bank sets it up to automatically take 100% of the balance at the end of the month, no option to change that. If I spend more on the credit card than I have in my current account on the day the money is transferred, it goes against my "Dispokredit" (overdraught) on the current account.

          In Germany, again, the normal Visa and Mastercard offer no insurance/protection and no bonuses for frequent / high use.

          I even got a card sent to me from the ADAC (German equivalent of the AA), you have to sign a DD mandate equivalent when you accept the card and it books 100% of the amount at the end of the month from your bank. The real benefit was discounts on ADAC services and 1c/Litre on fuel bought with the card.

      6. inmypjs Silver badge

        Re: So?

        "credit cards have little value over debit cards"

        My credit card gives me back 0.5% of whatever I spend and other special offers. Because it is credit additional consumer protection legislation applies:

        http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/section-75-of-the-consumer-credit-act

        I would never use a debit card where credit card is a no cost option.

      7. Number6

        Re: So?

        As the credit card is linked directly to the bank account and automatically debits 100% of the balance at the end of the month, credit cards have little value over debit cards, currently.

        To me, the big difference between a credit and debit card is who is liable in the event of fraud or failure to perform. There are more consumer protections when using a credit card than a debit card, and I suspect that both have way more in the way of legal protection than using your phone. I don't have any mobile banking apps on my phone and prefer to keep it that way. But then, like may Reg Commentards, I like to think I'm a bit more aware of the security risks involved and have a lack of faith in bank and phone security.

        1. big_D Silver badge

          Re: So?

          @Number6 In the event of fraud, the customer is responsible, unless it can be proven the bank was negligent. That goes for both sorts of card in Germany.

          That is the big difference to the UK, the credit card has no bonuses or extra protection over and above a debit card.

          1. Dan 55 Silver badge

            Re: So?

            Not surprised paying with plastic isn't very popular with Germans then.

  2. Danger Mouth
    Facepalm

    Trading security for convenience

    Making something convenient usually means giving up some security. In this case, we've traded the any form of authentication for the convenience of paying up to £30 10 seconds quicker.

    I recall issues where M&S were reading chips/cards of nearby people, rather than the actual customer and there was the POC where someone wandered around a railway station with a bag containing a battery powered card reader and harvested hundreds of pounds in minutes.

    This is a dumb concept, on the lines of the automatic door release on cars if an impact was sensed on the bumper. Kick the bumper and you can burgle the car in less than 10 seconds.

    1. Mark 110 Silver badge

      Re: Trading security for convenience

      The phone payment is actually slightly more secure than a contactless card as you have to unlock your phone to make the payment. I still find it easier to pull a card out of my wallet than use my phone though.

      1. AMBxx Silver badge

        Re: Trading security for convenience

        My tap to pay cards are perfectly secure - 1 inch cut at one end of the card soon fixed any security problems.

      2. Richard Jones 1
        WTF?

        Re: Trading security for convenience

        Do not use a mobile to pay for drive through meals, or bridge or other tolls in the UK as use of a hand held, including a wrist device while driving is illegal.

        So choices are:

        1) Pull out card from wallet and pay in ten seconds or less.

        2) Fumble about with an inside pocket, dig phone out of pocket (after 5 hand operations not so easy). Fumble about in front of growing queue to try to unlock the $%^&*()" phone, give up and either use cash or a card anyway.

        Perhaps that is one reason I do not put any financial stuff on the phone (there are other reasons).

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Trading security for convenience

          "Perhaps that is one reason I do not put any financial stuff on the phone (there are other reasons)."

          I've lost 2 phones in the last 15 years or so. I have yet to lose a credit card...

    2. Justicesays

      Re: Trading security for convenience

      " there was the POC where someone wandered around a railway station with a bag containing a battery powered card reader and harvested hundreds of pounds in minutes."

      The difficult part is actually getting the money out of your merchant account (which you have to have to get the money using card systems in the first place) before the fraud reports shut it down and refund all the cash. Turns out that isn't easy to do , which is why this isn't happening all the time right now...

      1. You aint sin me, roit
        Childcatcher

        Re: Trading security for convenience

        "The difficult part is actually getting the money out of your merchant account (which you have to have to get the money using card systems in the first place) before the fraud reports shut it down and refund all the cash. Turns out that isn't easy to do , which is why this isn't happening all the time right now..."

        Absolutely right.

        The scare stories are deliberately missing out the inconvenient fact the people aren't losing out - particularly if they use a credit card.

        And I'm surprised people are saying there is no protection in the EU for using a credit card, I thought the Consumer Credit Act was an EU Directive.

        1. werdsmith Silver badge

          Re: Trading security for convenience

          The Consumer Credit Act is a 1974 act of Parliament.

          1. You aint sin me, roit

            Re: Trading security for convenience

            Then again there's the Consumer Credit Act 2006.

            Or maybe even

            The Consumer Credit (EU Directive) Regulations 2010.

            Laws get updated, and some are updated to include EU Directives. Hence my surprise that German law didn't...

  3. DougS Silver badge

    Define "regularly"

    I almost never see anyone pay with their phone, though I don't drink coffee and AFAIK Starbucks is probably the most likely place for it.

    I never think about it even in places that can do it, because it isn't any faster or easier so why bother? I do it when I get my hair cut, because she's independent and uses Square for transactions. She can swipe cards but has to get out a little dongle to attach to her phone for that. She's set up for Apple Pay transactions without needing that dongle so that's the easiest for us both in this one case, meaning I do one transaction about every six weeks. I wonder if that's "regular" enough to put me in the 17%?

    1. big_D Silver badge

      Re: Define "regularly"

      In Germany, cash is still king and older (>30) people still generally frown on credit and debt, with the exception of a mortgage.

      Generally I use cash up to around 50 - 100€ and a debit card after that. The credit card is used exclusively for online transactions.

    2. John Robson Silver badge

      Re: Define "regularly"

      I've stopped carrying my wallet around nowadays...

      Paying by phone is somewhat more secure than by contactless card - because I have to unlock the device (either by passcode or biometric).

      Do most mobile wallets pass the debit/credit card details to the merchant, or just a one time token. Because if you don't trust the merchant then that might be another driver for mobile wallets.

      Personally it just means I only need to carry one thing, after all it's replaced the walkman, books, the camera, the calculator, the diary, the alarm clock, the address book, the Filofax... the library even...

      Why not replace a bit of plastic as well?

      1. eldakka Silver badge

        Re: Define "regularly"

        Personally it just means I only need to carry one thing, after all it's replaced the walkman
        Yeah agree on it replacing the walkman - but then I only ever used a walkman-like device (e.g. ipods) on longer trips where I'd also be carrying at least a daypack-type bag anyway.

        books
        Not really. Sure, sometimes I read a book on a phone, usually when I'm wasting time waiting for something. But when I'm reading books I like, I use a tablet or on long trips an e-book reader (easier on the eyes). And again, if I'm on the length of a trip where I want to bring a book along, I'll be carrying a pack of some sort to store a tablet or ebook reader (or the pockets of some of my jackets with larger pockets) in anyway.
        the camera
        Again, not really. If I'm going somewhere where I plan to take pictures - holiday for example - I'll bring a discrete camera. Even my compact "happy snap" camera takes better photos than a phone, let alone my SLR. It gives me a camera to take on-the-spur/surprise photos in situations where I wouldn't be carrying a separate camera, but then, previously I just wouldn't have taken a photo. So it hasn't replaced the camera, just allows me to have an emergency camera to hand more often.
        the calculator
        Absolutely.
        the diary
        Sometimes, but generally not. I've never kept a personal diary, but do set an alarm reminder on the phone sometimes. For work, I still use a written diary for taking notes in meetings. And email for appointments and so on when I get back to my desk - my memory is good enough to remember to go to a meeting straight from lunch rather than going back to my desk.
        the alarm clock
        definitely;
        the address book
        again an address book is not something I've ever felt the need to carry on my person at all times. I don't need so many addresses that I need an address book on hand all the time. Like with the diary, the desktop/laptop computer has replaced the address book, not my phone.

        I frequently leave my phone behind and just take a wallet - or when I go swimming I don't take a phone or wallet, just a credit/debit card I can swim with in the zipped-up pocket.

        Having the option of using a phone for payment is nice. But definitely not a necessity or even particularly convenient unless I'm in a situation where I've forgotten the wallet - although, since by law you are required to have your drivers license on you when driving I'm more likely to go back and get it than I am if I forget my phone.

        This just goes to show that everyone is different. I don't feel wedded to my phone, if I leave it at home when going to work or down to the shops, meh, so what. So being able to do things on my phone no easier than I do currently is neither here nor there.

        1. John Robson Silver badge

          Re: Define "regularly"

          "since by law you are required to have your drivers license on you when driving"

          Are you? - I'm not...

          I am required to be able to present it at a police station within 7 days of it being requested - but that's pretty easy.

          Obviously for large scale reading etc I prefer an e-ink display, or even (gasp) dead trees... but when I'm out and about, I can easily have a book shelf with me in case I end up waiting for something...

          For serious photography I use a DSLR, but for snaps (the majority of my photography is recording family moments) - the phone camera is actually pretty good.

          But the point is that the phone does sufficient things that it's useful enough for me to be carrying anyway. At that point the fact that it can be used as a card (with no more time at the till, I open up the wallet and authenticate whilst my stuff is being scanned, and present it as I would a card, takes half a second) means that there is yet another thing I don't need to carry most of the time.

          If I am going shopping shopping then I'll grab the wallet - but that's mostly to be allowed to spend over the £30 limit. It's also a good way to limit expenditure, because I can't buy 'big' things without deliberately going out to do so...

          1. Microchip

            Re: Define "regularly"

            "If I am going shopping shopping then I'll grab the wallet - but that's mostly to be allowed to spend over the £30 limit. It's also a good way to limit expenditure, because I can't buy 'big' things without deliberately going out to do so..."

            Varies by provider and acceptance, but as far as I'm aware there's no limit on Android Pay transactions with my bank, as opposed to the £30 on the contactless card, according to their T&Cs. A lot of the terminals seem to have £30 as a set limit though.

            I initially found this out by paying a food and drink bill for £36 at a pub using my phone without realising, went through without an issue, then went and checked the T&Cs to see if this was normal.

            1. inmypjs Silver badge

              Re: Define "regularly"

              "Android Pay transactions"

              Gees you actually want google to know more about you than they already do?

              I haven't and won't ever give google a credit card number which would provide a definite identity to associate with the personal information they slurp never mind give them a number and tell them what, where, and when I buy with it.

              I wouldn't touch android pay with someone else's dick.

              Since I can't avoid telling my bank what, where, and when I buy with their card I might trust a bank pay by bonk app, except I wouldn't trust android enough to run it on.

      2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: Define "regularly"

        "Personally it just means I only need to carry one thing, after all it's replaced the walkman, books, the camera, the calculator, the diary, the alarm clock, the address book, the Filofax... the library even..."

        How convenient ot be able to lose all those in one go.

      3. Wensleydale Cheese Silver badge

        Re: Define "regularly"

        "Personally it just means I only need to carry one thing, after all it's replaced the walkman, books, the camera, the calculator, the diary, the alarm clock, the address book, the Filofax... the library even...

        Why not replace a bit of plastic as well?"

        All your eggs are in one basket, and that basket is fragile.

        Apart from what happens if your phones get lost or stolen, what happens if any one of the battery, charger, charging cable, or the phone itself packs up. You may be able to get that replaced in short order while you are at home, but can you do that when away from home?

        1. John Robson Silver badge

          Re: Define "regularly"

          "Apart from what happens if your phones get lost or stolen, what happens if any one of the battery, charger, charging cable, or the phone itself packs up. You may be able to get that replaced in short order while you are at home, but can you do that when away from home?"

          I haven't lost a phone in twenty years (apart from a work phone I didn't use for a few months, and then found a few months later)...

          The battery lasts me for several days, and there are various places I can boost the charge if I need to...

          The phone is unlikely to pack up at random. If I'm away for any significant length of time I'll have the wallet with me, but the 'pick up on the way home' can always be delayed if needed.

      4. fattybacon

        Re: Define "regularly"

        RFID shielding wallets, give me a break.

        Thanks John. Why did it take so long for someone to post something sensible, rather than the swivel-eyed rantings of the foil-hatted loons?

        I'd say Android Pay is more secure than your bank's contactless card as they generate you a fake card, tied to your bank account, so your real card details aren't part of the transaction. So, you could hobble the contactless part of your participating bank's card, and still be part of the contactless love.

        I live in the ruddy sticks (A seaside town they forgot to bomb) where we do have a) 4G mobile b) shops that accept contactless, and I use it all the time with just MY PHONE. I'm so confident I even leave my wallet and jacket in the boot of my car, I'M A TOTAL REBEL.

        Also, was funny the other day seeing four newly arrived American student girls in a bar all trying to pay for their individual diet 'sodas' with cards without the powah of contactless or chip'n'pin. The hipster bar dude hadn't a clue how to process them. He would have been better off just giving them on the house.

    3. disgustedoftunbridgewells Silver badge

      Re: Define "regularly"

      I was behind a girl in a bar recently trying to pay on her phone. After a while the barmaid said "Technology is wonderful and all that, but could you just use a card?"

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Define "regularly"

        @disgustedoftunbridgewells

        I was behind a girl in a bar recently trying to remember her 4 digit pin. After a while the barmaid said "Technology is wonderful and all that, but could you just sign instead?"

        Technology moves on and in my opinion using a phone/watch or whatever, that uses a one time key, is quick, easy and far more secure than a card, especially a card that has all your details including account number printed on the front!

        1. disgustedoftunbridgewells Silver badge

          Re: Define "regularly"

          It was below £30 so she ended using contactless payment with her card. She was using her phone as a novelty rather than out of convenience.

          Moving contactless payments from the card to the phone for small payments is a lateral move at best.

      2. CustardGannet
        Stop

        Re: Define "regularly"

        Another trap for the stupid.

        So now, if you lose your wallet, not only do you have no access to funds, you can't ring anyone to ask for help.

        Even if you're on a night out with friends, you can't buy any more beers, and won't be able to borrow your taxi fare* home from them, because they won't have any way to access solid cash either.

        (*You won't be able to catch the last bus because your bus ticket is now on your phone, too.)

        Maybe soon they'll fit your front door with an electronic lock that you need to swipe with your phone, so you can be locked out all night to boot ?

        Obviously most of the sheep enthusiastically embracing this Brave New World have never heard the phrase 'Single Point Of Failure'.

        Personally I'll stick with the convenient payment system that is bits-of-paper-with-a-picture-of-the-Queen-on, thanks.

        1. big_D Silver badge

          Re: Define "regularly"

          @Custard Gannet if I am going out boozing, then I leave my wallet and phone at home and only take enough cash for the drinks for the evening.

  4. Ben1892

    Not convenient

    I use my debit card for tap and pay - far simpler that messing around, unlocking phones and scanning QR codes. Have you even been stuck behind someone in the coffee shop trying to use their phone to pay - exactly !!

  5. Dan 55 Silver badge
    Stop

    Hahahaha... no.

    Sorry, I'll stick to bank cards (with contactless disabled) and printed boarding passes.

    Don't want the battery running out, don't trust the app developer's home-spun security, don't want the chance of malware lifting data.

  6. David Roberts Silver badge

    Combined use?

    I have stored all my loyalty cards and membership cards on my phone because I was laden down with plastic. So I unlock the phone at the till.

    It would make sense to use the phone for the payment as well but not all credit card suppliers seem to have a phone app. Will investigate. As others have said, the current payment methods are reasonably quick and reasonably secure.

    I use credit not debit for the slight delay in payment (from years ago when I could pay before the end of the month and settle after) and the added protection for higher value transactions.

    1. Credas Silver badge

      Re: Combined use?

      and the added protection for higher value transactions

      This (for UK cards); it's seriously unwise to use a debit card for payments over £100 if you have any doubt whatsoever about a retailer - even more so when card surcharges are banned shortly.

      1. DougS Silver badge

        Re: Combined use?

        The same is true in the US. If you use a credit card the protections are better, plus if there's an illegal charge on your debit card the money is already gone from your account and you'll have to wait to get it back. In the meantime you might have trouble if you were living paycheck to paycheck (which is unfortunately the kind of person who needs credit card level protection the most, but is least likely to have good credit)

        I always tell people this, but a surprising number of people tell me they don't want to get a credit card because they don't trust their ability to control their spending!

        As far as illegal charges, I just got a text from Chase yesterday morning asking me if a charge was legitimate. It was not - someone charged FORTY FIVE CENTS to my card. Talking to the fraud department person they said it is listed as a charity. Obviously my account number got out there somehow (I make online purchases with this card all the time, so it was bound to happen eventually I guess) so I had to get it shut down and get a new one. The annoying part is I had the full 16 digit number and 3 digit code on the back memorized from typing them in for online ordering so much, now I'm going to have to run and grab my wallet everytime I want to make a purchase for months until the new one sticks in my mind!

  7. Chris G Silver badge

    No surprise

    That Spain has the most users but it's a status thing here, stand at the till whip out a large expensive looking phablet and wave it at the machine like a magician. Most people I know hear don't know you can put AV on a phone and never look at the permissions an app is requesting before installing.

    Sooner rather than later a lot of people will get burned.

    Me? Cash or debit, also have velcro on the outside of my wallet, in the summer Spain is pick pocket heaven (if you're a pick pocket)

  8. PhilipN Silver badge

    “Pop” the kettle on

    Nice one. Thought this expression went out with the Ark.

    Thanks, “Gran”.

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Implants

    I'm seriously thinking about having a contactless device implanted. However, the body part I'm considering may get me arrested.

    1. JoshOvki

      Re: Implants

      Pay-by-bonk?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Implants

        "Pay-by-bonk"

        Indeed. There are occasions when I have to tap my card a few times, and I have a (somewhat unpleasant) mental image of the barriers at Piccadilly Circus if everyone had such an implant. Definite boon to sex workers as well, who would need card readers installed internally. It's the future.

      2. Charlie Clark Silver badge
        Coat

        Re: Implants

        Pay-by-bonk?

        Surcharged for staying power?

        Mine's the Peter North fan club jacket…

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Implants

      "I'm seriously thinking about having a contactless device implanted. However, the body part I'm considering may get me arrested."

      Rule 34. You've probably been beaten to it.

  10. Roj Blake Silver badge

    Mobile Wallets

    I don't think I've ever seen a wallet that wasn't mobile.

    Isn't the whole point of a wallet that it allows you to carry around your cash and cards without losing them?

  11. Not also known as SC

    Contactless Payments in Norway

    Had a surprise when I tried to make a contactless payment in Norway because you still had to enter a PIN. I don't know if it is general over there or just because of the type of card but it was confusing at first.

    1. fattybacon

      Re: Contactless Payments in Norway

      That wasn't your four digit PIN you were typing, that was the price of the single beer you'd ordered. They make you type it to make sure you know what you are getting yourself into :D

  12. David Nash Silver badge

    I just came back from a holiday in three very different parts of the USA and whilst card acceptance was pretty much universal, I didn't see anyone paying with a phone, and protocol varied quite a bit.

    Some places were chip-and-pin, like we have in the UK (although they have some nice card readers that attempt to shield your keystrokes rather more effectively than UK ones), some places were chip-and-pin plus signature (what's that all about?) and some were contactless.

    Most disconcerting is the fairly standard procedure in a restaurant where they take your card away and come back with a receipt for you to adjust upwards and sign. Why do they have to take your card away? Here we have portable card readers and you can see they are not skimming your card. Also, since they were expecting you to add an unknown value (tip) to the bill, they must have authorised an open or large amount, which worried me somewhat.

    Still nobody using a phone for payment though, that I saw.

    1. Joe Harrison Silver badge

      Bossy lady in McDonalds in America got quite cross when she saw me moving my card towards the top of the weird-looking reader where I saw the contactless logo. "SIR YOU CAN'T -" . Her face was priceless when it beeped and said authorised. Apparently she had never seen it happen before.

    2. Dog11

      I live in the US, and while I'm aware of the existence of phone payment, I have never seen anyone actually do it. As far as that goes, I don't think I've ever seen anyone do a contactless payment, either. And PIN is rare for credit cards (more common with debit cards). Not everywhere even has working chip readers, though they are becoming more common (and disliked, because the chip is slower than a swipe). Typically over some floor limit (~$50) you'll need a signature, chip or no. Even if there is a signature, it's rare for a clerk to look at it, though occasionally a clerk will notice a card that hasn't been signed yet, and get the customer to sign it (in that case, of course, the signature always matches the credit slip).

      1. disgustedoftunbridgewells Silver badge

        In the UK about 90% of places with card readers have contactless now.

  13. Steve Evans

    Maybe if some UK banks would actually wake up and smell the coffee, we could actually use their cards for our Google Wallets, instead of them living in a dream world where their own, single bank offering was actually relevant.

    1. Chris G Silver badge

      @ Steve Evans. One of the last things I would let Google have is my bloody wallet, they al ready have too much as it is.

  14. Zmodem

    online wallets are useless, like paypal, you have to link your bank account, while you can pay for things just by registering your debit card, if you can pay for things with your debit card only, you should be able to add money to a wallet with a debit card, but no, you have todo a full bank transfer instead

  15. Joe Harrison Silver badge

    Briefly tried Android Pay but honestly cannot see the point. Especially as it specifically won't work with a Revolut card, which by the way I can seriously recommend.

    1. Zmodem

      paypal is good for saving up for things, a spare £20 here, there and everywhere all adds up over a few months

  16. Zippy's Sausage Factory

    The more I hear about systems like this, the more I start to develop a twitch and think "hmm... time to start paying in cash. Nice, impossible to clone, can't be hacked, cold hard cash."

    Fortunately I have a non-Internet non-contactless card from the bank. Which took a little bit of asking for, but that's what the Electron card still gives you.

    1. You aint sin me, roit
      Trollface

      "Impossible to clone"?

      Like counterfeiters have gone out of business... and if you get caught trying to pay with counterfeit money, even if it's not your own handiwork, it will be confiscated.

      Though used notes are the payment vehicle of choice for *certain* transactions...

      1. Zippy's Sausage Factory
        Black Helicopters

        Counterfeiting isn't cloning though. They can't clone the money in my pocket and spend what's in my bank account that way, not in the same way that they could do with my bank card. Or authorise contactless microtransactions as they walk along with a little skimming device.

        Anyway, I must go now as I need to make a new tinfoil hat and hide under the table for a couple of hours...

  17. choleric

    Cash 22

    The problem here is that after a while if you want a fully patched phone on most Android handsets you have to root the phone and install the latest version of LineageOS or equivalent.

    But rooting your phone generally means that you can't use it for electronic payments because it's no longer considered trustworthy.

    So you have a choice: use your credit card and, separately, an up-to-date software stack on your phone, or let an unpatched Android loose with your remaining credit balance.

    Mines the one with the miniature EMP device in the pocket.

    1. inmypjs Silver badge

      Re: Cash 22

      "the latest version of LineageOS"

      Too right! I bought an Honor 5x and Huawei were bragging about how great they were going to be with updates and how the 1st update was in the pipeline before the phone even shipped. Today it's android security patch level is more than 12 months old - useless bastards no honor/Huawei again for me.

      My oldest phone a 1st gen Moto G is running 7.1.2 (LineageOS) with a patch level less than 12 days old.

      That said LineageOS isn't usually rooted by default and you need an unlocked bootloader/recovery to install an OS not root.

  18. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Don't know who's actually using mobile wallet in US

    We're in San Francisco. A few friends and I did a qualitative survey, spending a recent month seeing if anyone was using mobile wallet to pay for anything. Not a singe person. Nada.

    Having spent a few months in the UK, nothing beats tap and pay for convenience. Sadly that's not widely implemented in the US. Or if you do tap, you still have to sign. Signature - the most laughable security of all.

  19. Peter Cochrane

    Unreliable Mobile Nets in the UK

    Why is this a big surprise - the UK has the worst mobile networks of any EU country! No signal. No 3G signal. No 4G almost everywhere. Far less than 90% coverage by each carrier. Weak signals and continuous drop outs. Mobile wallets do not work all the time - but plastic does!

    1. gsf333

      Re: Unreliable Mobile Nets in the UK

      Have you been out of the country for a while? I am not saying coverage here is perfect. However even where I live in deepest Yorkshire we have 4G, and it's a small village where they couldn't be bothered make the 3G signal reach any useful landmass so was 2G for most of this century.

      When I travel around there are very few areas with no coverage, however if you mean drop outs then that is a real problem. They really do need to sort out the issues faced on the East Coast mainline route.

      When in the car I come across very few places on 2G anymore (and this is O2 - who don't like to spend their money).

  20. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Brits arent generally very forward thinking...

    Im a Brit and I hate how long it takes for things to be adopted here.

    For example...

    In Switzerland you can buy Bitcoin at any train station. In the UK you're lucky to find someone that knows what Bitcoin is.

    In Germany there are places you can buy your groceries at using various cryptocurrencies.

    In Britain we queue behind old ladies feeding coins into a self checkout they forgot to scan things into.

    Britain is a nation run by old duffers catering for chavs and pensioners.

    I hear the arguments about contactless etc. Yes, very good, but it never hurts to have a choice.

    I can choose the car I drive, the supermarket I use and the house I want to live in. But for some reason its very hard to choose how I wish payment to be taken from me.

    Contactless, mobile wallets...they're effectively the same. Just another route through the same old crappy payment processors.

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