back to article Big Tech slams Trump on plan to deport kids

More than 300 business leaders including the CEOs of Apple, Amazon, Facebook and Google have signed a letter slamming Donald Trump for his plan to remove legal protections from immigrant children born in the United States. "As entrepreneurs and business leaders, we are concerned about new developments in immigration policy …

  1. Chris G Silver badge

    I have never understood America's xenophobia and attitude towards immigrants and foreigners, when you consider the entire country consists of immigrants and foreigners.

    When anyone talks about what made America great, most of them are talking about the achievements of people who are or were immigrants and foreigners.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "[...] when you consider the entire country consists of immigrants and foreigners."

      As does possibly every country in the world - if you go back far enough. However - the USA generally seems to deprecate the prior claims of earlier immigrants - a.k.a the indigenous people before the first European settlers.

      1. El Duderino
        Joke

        The Wall

        The indigenous people should have built one ;)

      2. Haku

        @AC, sort of like when you read the name "Iphis Knapton" and you think "Surely that's got to be made up", and you're right it is, just like everyone else's name.

      3. Perry the platypus

        Would you like to list out all the countries that invaded Britain ? Most Brit’s are not the original settlers. Mexico is no different. Nor Australia. Nor many other European countries. And of course North America was settled by multiple empires

        Your comment is fatuous and ignores the real issues and the reality of history.

    2. JEDIDIAH
      Linux

      Not quite.

      These aren't "immigrants". They're illegal aliens. They sneaked into the country and have ignored any and all rules and regulations. Also, the hostility is not constant and universal. There have be multiple amnesties (usually in Republican administrations) that many of these people have also ignored.

      Until they actually naturalize, they're aren't "immigrants". They're just visitors.

      Some people that can blow this off to at their own peril. (Thus the "they're only visiting" remark).

      1. Dan 55 Silver badge
        Flame

        Re: Not quite.

        They did not sneak into the country, they happened to be born there or were brought there by their parents at a very young age. They did not choose to illegally enter the US.

        Letting them grow up alongside other children, go to.school with them, pledge allegiance, etc... so they basically are as American as their peers but then letting it be known that they are not as American as their peers, that there is a sword of Damocles hanging above their heads, and they might be thrown out at some arbitrary age at the whim of the government back to a country they probably don't even remember is the height of stupidity, cruelty, blithering idiocy, is entirely consistent with Trump, and is only done to shore up support from mindless unthinking cretins.

        So may I wish a great big hearty fuck you to any of you here who support this... policy, for want of a word.

        1. dmacleo

          Re: Not quite.

          if they were born here then citizenship is never an issue. they are citizens due to 14th amendment.

          1. Dan 55 Silver badge

            Re: Not quite.

            Interesting, I assumed like in most countries at least one parent had to be a US citizen for the baby to have US citizenship.

            If US citizenship is that permissive then why suddenly get upset about, say, a pre-schooler getting brought in to the US yeaes ago and threaten to send them back years later when they are basically an American?

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: 14th ammendment

            Ah, the US Constitution. Something that Drumpf does not care about unless it brings in money to his friends and even better to himself and his clan (They are a bad as the Kardashians IMHO).

            He will do anything even at this early stage of his rule

            - To keep his dumbass supporters on his side

            - Get him another 4 years in Trumpton (Inside the Beltway)

            - Make him and his family shed loads more money

            - And not pay even $0.01c of tax.

            Everything else is a mere sideshow.

            Naturally, North Korea could put a huge spanner into his aims (And the rest of us to survive beyond 2020/2024)

            When will someone start to publicly his mental prowess? Some academics have already detected signs of dementure but the TIC (Tweeter in Chief) is getting very good at hiding it but for how long?

        2. Pompous Git Silver badge

          Re: Not quite.

          "They did not sneak into the country, they happened to be born there or were brought there by their parents at a very young age. They did not choose to illegally enter the US."
          So just deport the parents then...

        3. ThePhantom

          Re: Not quite.

          Nope. "they happened to be born there..." is categorically not true. By law, anyone born within the borders of the United States is a citizen. The issue is around illegals who were smuggled in as children by their illegal parents. Technically, the kids are criminals, but depending on their age, they had no choice. However, they and their parents are still illegals.

          1. Dan 55 Silver badge

            Re: Not quite.

            Yes, as mentioned above I thought the US did the same as most countries, which is only give US citizenship to the baby if at least one of the parents is a US citizen. However it is enough for the baby to be born inside the US.

            So what damn difference does it make if the child came when they were say between 0-5 and when they were born there? They're socially going to turn out an American anyway.

            Why is one child sponging off the welfare state and the other not if in both cases the patents are illegal? Why put one child on notice of deportation if their brother or sister a year or so their junior is fine? Why break up their family? It makes no damn sense.

            1. This post has been deleted by its author

        4. PghMike

          Re: Not quite.

          The ones that were born here aren't covered by DACA -- they're US citizens by birth.

          That being said, I agree with the rest -- these people came here as children, and most have known no other country. We should show some decency and let them become citizens.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Not quite.

        @Jedidah, These aren't "immigrants". They're illegal aliens. They sneaked into the country and have ignored any and all rules and regulations.

        You're talking about the first US settlers, right?

    3. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Mushroom

      "I have never understood America's xenophobia and attitude towards immigrants and foreigners, when you consider the entire country consists of immigrants and foreigners."

      then I shall explain the TRUTH about what is happening...

      1. it's NOT 'xenophobia'. That 'phobia' thing is wielded like a weapon by the left. It's total BULLSHIT every time 'phobia' applies to ANYTHING these days...

      2. Illegal immigrants illegally entered the country with their children, in violation of the law, and THEN used PUBLIC FUNDS AND SERVICES to educate them and pay for their doctor bills, etc., and NOW they expect THE REST OF THE COUNTRY to "just accept them" simply because they tagged along with their parents while their parents were BREAKING THE LAW. What part of _THAT_ makes sense?

      3. OBAKA signed "an executive order" to give these people green cards, all of which apparently expire within the next 2 years. Trump isn't going to invalidate them (which would force a mass deportation), but he won't RENEW them, either. If they want to stay, they'll have to get in line and APPLY like everyone else.

      4. CONGRESS establishes the laws. Going around CONGRESS by "executive order" is something OBAKA was INFAMOUS for doing.

      5. Existing law says you have to jump through certain hoops and meet certain requirements to LEGALLY work inside the USA. Those who do NOT do it "the right way" are IN! VIOLATION! OF! THE! LAW! and of course are subject to DEPORTATION, INCARCERATION, etc..

      6. Feeling sorry for people is NOT a reason to "just let them in", especially when they'll end up USING PUBLIC SERVICES at the expense of tax PAYERS like me. *FEEL* is an 'F' word. It makes POOR decisions.

      7. The United States of America is _NOT_ the "welfare teet" for the world. PERIOD.

      8. Every nation on the planet has the _RIGHTS_ to defend and secure its own borders, and regulate who can come in and who must leave. Is the USA now _EXEMPT_ from this right, because, *FEEL* ???

      Once again I expect a boatload of downvotes by stating the truth.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Started reading your comment, then saw the capitalisation, then thought is this bombastic bob, look at the name, sure enough it is. Jesus, STOP randomly CAPITALISING WORDS its idiotic.

        Now I will get back to reading your comment to see if there is anything of value in it. But at a glance with the OBAKA in there, I'm sure I will not be surprised, it will contain nothing.

        1. handleoclast

          Random capitalization

          What seems like random capitalization to you (and me, and most of the rest of us) makes sense in that seething cauldron of diarrhoea that is bob's head.

          And even if you (and I, and most of the rest of us) do not understand the capitalization algorithm bob is using, it still carries information: he's forgotten to take his medication. Again.

      2. Teiwaz Silver badge

        xenophobe

        Xenophobia is the fear and distrust of that which is perceived to be foreign or strange. - Wikipedia

        Xenophobia is the hatred/contempt or fear (but usually hatred, the way we mean it) of outsiders. - rationalwiki.

        'phobia' may be bandied about too often these days, but, sounds applicable in this case.

      3. DougS Silver badge

        OBAKA

        When you see this word, you know you have an angry demented hard right screed, and don't need to bother to read because there will be zero intelligent content. Bob often writes intelligently, even when I (often) disagree with him. I guess "OBAKA" must have taken time out from his retirement to piss in Bob's cornflakes this morning.

        Still wondering what OBAKA stands for, if only someone would loan me the secret alt.right decoder ring.

        1. bombastic bob Silver badge
          FAIL

          Re: OBAKA

          'Obaka" is japanese for "royal idiot" or "honorable idiot". I specifically use it as a slang term for the previous occupant of the white house, the WORST president this country has ever had, who almost singlehandedly doubled the national debt, stifled the economy, created the WORST replacement for a previously working industry (medical industry and insurance) and along with his willing minions, calls EVERYONE a RACIST who simply disagreed with him...

          his damage MUST be undone, and the sooner the better.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: OBAKA

            his damage MUST be undone, and the sooner the better.

            1 - he had to undo the damage of his predecessor, which (AFAIK) is of the same club as the current idiot

            2 - he was blocked at every turn by the club of the current idiot who now can no longer hide behind that excuse - and still get absolutely nothing done (which rather demonstrates their "quality")

            3 - if you call what Trump is doing "undoing damage", you must be smoking a fairly illegal brand of tobacco. This self-enriching idiot makes Bush and even Nixon look like amateurs in how badly he's screwing over people, breaking the law and encouraging others like Apaio to do the same which gives rise to, for instance, shit like this where a thug of a cop feels empowered enough to assault and wrongfully arrest a nurse following procedure and law because he doesn't get this way (the apparent backdrop to this was an attempt to frame the still unconscious driver for a DUI as a police vehicle collided with him).

            Thanks to Trump (and blind supporters like you), the US is no longer trusted by anyone. The sooner he is slung into the jail he belongs in, the better, and as far as I am concerned a substantial part of the GOP can join him there for carefully avoiding to question him what he was doing.

            1. Pompous Git Silver badge

              Re: OBAKA

              "Thanks to Trump (and blind supporters like you), the US is no longer trusted by anyone."
              The loss of trust began decades ago. For example, LBJ claimed (correctly, cough, cough) that the US had no intention of bombing Cambodia. That's because the US was already bombing the crap out of Cambodia. It was a gift to the communist party there who had no problem recruiting as a result. Five million dead at the hands of Pol Pot, or was it really at the hands of the good ol' USA?

            2. fajensen Silver badge
              Flame

              Re: OBAKA

              Thanks to Trump (and blind supporters like you), the US is no longer trusted by anyone.

              Untrue, nobody remotely attached to reality trusted the US after the "GW Bush / Cheney" regime and Obama taking a big crap all over Nürenberg sort-of sealed the deal. Trump is just the chaser.

              Now, The Donald's achievement, which is a Grand One Indeed, is to make even someone as thick as Every European Leader since like for Ever, wake up and begin to accept a stark reality: Not only is The Emperor not wearing any clothes, he is actually fondling himself too!

              Go Trump! Show the world More!!

            3. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: OBAKA

              " created the WORST replacement for a previously working industry (medical industry and insurance)"

              Bloody hell, the NHS must be the work of the black devil.

              Please bring the white lord down to save us all.

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: OBAKA

            "the WORST president this country has ever had"

            Worse than James Buchanan? That seems unlikely.

            1. Adrian 4 Silver badge

              Re: OBAKA

              I have immense confidence that the present incumbent is going to beat Obama on this metric, at least.

            2. Public Citizen

              Re: OBAKA

              James Buchanan was a peach compared to Andrew Johnson.

              Johnson was put on the ticket for the 1864 Election s a sop to those who still believed in slavery in the North. It was never conceived that he would become president either so soon or in the fashion that occured when Pres. Lincoln was assinated.

              Johnson basically saw to it that the carefully worked out plan for reconciliation and reintegration of the southern states was thrown out the window and the period known as "the Carpetbagger Era" which was responsible for sowing even more strife and salting the already bleeding wounds caused by 4 years of Civil War became the operational reality for too much of the south.

          3. oldcoder

            Re: OBAKA

            Obama was one of the best.

            Trump is, hands down, the worst.

            You really need to review your standards.

          4. 's water music Silver badge

            Re: OBAKA

            [Obama] created the WORST replacement for a previously working industry (medical industry and insurance)

            Certainly appears to have interfered with your meds today. I'm with @dougs, the awsome powah of your irregular capitalisation tends to make your best posts too much like your worst ones.

          5. Mike Moyle Silver badge

            Re: OBAKA

            Of course, Obama was not saddled with two unnecessary wars put on the national credit card by his feckless predecessor; was not facing the collapse of the housing and domestic automobile industries, nor the collapse of the general economy into deep recession or possible depression; and never had his attempt to correct major flaws in the insurance industry -- or, in fact, virtually ANYTHING that he attempted for he last 3/4 of his term -- repeatedly sabotaged by a congressional leadership who stated at the outset that its primary goal was to make him a one-term president, and whose idea of "bipartisanship" is "you agreeing to anything we want".

            Certainly not.

            1. fajensen Silver badge
              Flame

              Re: OBAKA

              Obama was not saddled with two unnecessary wars ...

              AhEm - Obama chose to double-down and scale-up on just about every, single, stupidity and past or ongoing crime against humanity that Bush/Cheney started (as well as some of the evil originating with Clinton, like financial deregulation and war on drugs).

              Obama did all this because he knew that if he had actually changed anything apart from adding more zeroes to the already meaningless numbers representing the bank balances of corporate sponsors and adding a few more wars and regime changes, he would have been replaced.

              It's "funny" how all these "progressives" never, ever manage, actually to do anything "progressive" even when they have, like, a majority. It's almost like their heart is not in it!

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: OBAKA

          Still wondering what OBAKA stands for

          It means that the author lacks sufficient valid arguments/evidence for what they are saying and thus has to resort to name calling. You will find that usually comes accompanied by bias, errant capitalisation and unproven claims. In short, worth ignoring due to a substantial lack of actual content and fact.

        3. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: OBAKA

          Still wondering what OBAKA stands for, if only someone would loan me the secret alt.right decoder ring.

          It stands for "I watch too much anime and think Obama is dumb"

          Baka = Japanese for dumb. Hope that helps.

        4. Mpeler
          Mushroom

          Re: OBAKA

          Yeah. I prefer Øbozo, it reflects what Obama is: a Marxist clown.

      4. InNY

        "...by stating the truth." - so, when are you going to start doing that?

      5. oldcoder

        Going against the constitution is Trumps choice.

        Going against the courts is Trumps choice.

        Going against the law is what is happening - even the "government" is ignoring the laws; so why shouldn't everyone else?

      6. Public Citizen

        The Fortune 500 Companies have used these "Dreamers" to tick off the check boxes for qualification for satisfying multiple special programs qualifications that ualify them for :

        A. Reduction in tx obligation

        B. Access to Federal Grant Monies

        They are only woried about how this will affect their bottom lines, despite all the political posturing and posing.

        What they >should< be worried about is the potential for proecution for hiring illegals, which is a portion of the federal law that has generally been ignored by the last couple of administrations.

        Should the Trump Administration get >really serious< about enforcing these statutes and regulations many of the executives of these companies could be looking at multiple counts of violation of statutes/regulations with heavy fines and or substantial jail/prison time.

        The problem isn't just with those who were brought here as minors but also those who have come here on a legitimate visa and just disappeared into the underground communities when their visas ran out. Th "dreamers" are just the tip of the iceberg, ad being the tip, the easiest to identify and start the process of unwinding the mess that has been made of the orderly imigration proceedure.

        General Point: Every Year the USA issues more temporary visas and permanent resident approvals than any other nation on the planet. Without this ordrly process, one key element of which is the screenig for disease carriers who pose the threat of bringing in diseases that have been eradicated from the United Stats for decades, chaos soon follows. this is being demonstrated on a daily basis in those ares of the USA where illegals are found in the greatest numbers just in the disease reporting statistics. There are now diseases, in some cases highly drug resistant forms of these diseases, appearing that have not been reported for decades, if ever, since reporting standards were first implemented in the late 19th century. Part of what is showing up is tropical and sub-tropical diseases that hve never before been seen in the USA.

        It is all comming in through illegal channels, being brought by people who have avoided the statutorily required health examinations and certifications that are a routine part of the Legal Immigration and Visa Process.

    4. Pompous Git Silver badge

      "I have never understood America's xenophobia and attitude towards immigrants and foreigners, when you consider the entire country consists of immigrants and foreigners."
      You've never come across the term "American Indians" then? Buffy Sainte-Marie, or Link Wray for example.

      1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        You've never come across the term "American Indians" then?

        Just an earlier generation of immigrant. Apart from Africans in Africa we're all immigrants.

      2. Chris G Silver badge

        "You've never come across the term "American Indians" then? Buffy Sainte-Marie, or Link Wray for example."

        Your point?

        1. Pompous Git Silver badge

          "Your point?"
          I find it difficult to think of them as immigrants. How long do you need to live somewhere before you are no longer a furriner? YMMV. I do recall a line from a documentary: "They fought for a land that they thought was theirs."

    5. ThePhantom

      I don't believe there is "xenophobia and attitude towards immigrants and foreigners." There is, however, a negative attitude towards illegal immigrants who come here and end up sucking on the welfare teat. Nearly $50 million in the California state budget will go to expanded legal services for illegals -- and that is what many of us object to.

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        >Nearly $50 million in the California state budget will go to expanded legal services for illegals

        Splutter, that's nearly 1/7 of an F35 - no wonder the country is in such a state !

      2. oldcoder

        It is xenophobia when anyone unfamiliar or looks different is treated as a non-person, threatened, imprisoned, possibly tortured,... for no reason at all.

    6. This post has been deleted by its author

    7. macjules Silver badge

      W.H.Auden summed this up in just 2 lines:

      When he laughed, respectable senators burst with laughter,

      And when he cried the little children died in the streets.

      Curiously appropriate with Donald Trump.

    8. Mpeler
      Mushroom

      immigrants?

      " threaten the future of young undocumented immigrants brought to America as children"

      Nope.

      " threaten the future of young ILLEGAL immigrants brought to America as children".

      Slave labor for big biz.

      Look at the rules for immigration into Mexico, for instance. Illegals end up rotting in their less-that-5-diamond-quality prisons.....

      Fire away, leftist libtards. You don't have to pay taxes to support these leeches. I do. And so do all of the other LEGALLY EMPLOYED Americans.

    9. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Everything country except Africa is a country of immigrants. But many of the USA immigrants unlike some countries actually come from a time of legal immigration - google how many Americans can trace themselves back to Ellis island.

    10. fajensen Silver badge
      Pint

      I have never understood America's xenophobia and attitude towards immigrants and foreigners, when you consider the entire country consists of immigrants and foreigners.

      1 part Projection - Americans rightly fear that those foreigners, once they become many / strong enough, will simply treat Americans exactly like Americans treat everyone who are not Americans but just happens to have something some rich American wants (or just bought a used cellphone from the wrong person)!

      1 part Common Sense - If you are an immigrant, having somehow "made it" or at least having a decent time, then it is stupid and counterproductive for you to support the arrival more people like you, who, because they are like you, will be going for the same "living space". Competition is only a nice thing to have when playing a game of sports!

      and

      1 part History - Mass Immigration didn't work out so well for the American Indians, maybe it will work out the same way for the current American tribes?

    11. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
      Paris Hilton

      I have never understood America's xenophobia and attitude towards immigrants and foreigners, when you consider the entire country consists of immigrants and foreigners.

      OTOH, why should the US and Euroland be the only countries to have open gates for the huddled masses?

      Apparently it's a moral thing to allow your kid's country to get swamped by random people wandering around looking for a better life in a somewhat economically successful countries, thus destroying them utterly (because economic resources happen to be finite, as constanly bemoaned by greens), but I don't see it.

    12. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "his plan to remove legal protections from immigrant children born in the United States."

      Surely if they were born in the US they are not immigrants?

      This is about enforcing existing laws and stopping exceptions that just encourage more people to enter the US illegally.

      1. diodesign (Written by Reg staff) Silver badge

        Re: anonymous coward

        "stopping exceptions that just encourage more people to enter the US illegally"

        Yeah, sucks to be you if you're brought to the US as a young kid by family, and the States are all you know, amiright????

        C.

        1. JEDIDIAH
          Boffin

          Re: anonymous coward

          I would imagine that it would suck for any kid anywhere. At least the US has birthright citizenship. Some places don't even allow for that.

  2. JEDIDIAH
    Devil

    The problem with stupid short cuts

    Well, this is the problem with stupid short cuts. I am sure we've all seen the engineering and IT version of trying to skirt the rules and ignore policies and procedures. If this came about due to a dubious abuse of executive authority, then that's it's own bag of stupid.

    Each party has it's own way of whining and moaning and saying it doesn't want to pay attention the rule of law.

  3. Throatwarbler Mangrove Silver badge
    Trollface

    Don't hate . . .

    Brexit means Brexit.

    1. James 51

      Re: Don't hate . . .

      The whole point of brexit is hate in one form or another.

      1. bombastic bob Silver badge
        Thumb Down

        Re: Don't hate . . .

        "The whole point of brexit is hate in one form or another."

        that's right, throw ANOTHER "emotion bomb" at it, and do the ad hominem invalidation tango

        https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/20/Appeal-to-Anger

        https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/29/Appeal-to-Emotion

        https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/1/Ad-Hominem-Abusive

        and possibly this

        https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/9/Ad-Hominem-Circumstantial

        and this

        https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/10/Ad-Hominem-Guilt-by-Association

        because you are asserting that those who are FOR Brexit support it because of HATE

        and this is obviously NOT true. (although you may find a few people that actually fall into this kind of hate-based reasoning, it would assume 'guilt by association' that EVERYONE agrees with those motivated by hate)

        so thanks for the emotion bombs... [NOT]

        1. Teiwaz Silver badge

          Re: Don't hate . . .

          @bombastic bob

          I'm not disagreeing, the hate comment I thought was a gross generalisation - but every backup source for your arguments pointing to the same site?

          1. bombastic bob Silver badge

            Re: Don't hate . . .

            take a look, they describe different logic fallacies, which I see here ALL of the time.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Don't hate . . .

              take a look, they describe different logic fallacies, which I see here ALL of the time.

              Ah, that explains why you use them so much. Your favourite seems to be whatabouterism, which is just enough of a sidestep from an ad hominem to avoid being called that.

            2. Teiwaz Silver badge

              Re: Don't hate . . .

              take a look, they describe different logic fallacies, which I see here ALL of the time.

              I looked, it's just not very convincing when all the 'proof' is from the same source.

              (kind of like those Christians who reference the bible exclusively and think they are providing a varied and solid foundation for their argument).

              1. inmypjs Silver badge

                Re: Don't hate . . .

                "I looked, it's just not very convincing when all the 'proof' is from the same source."

                Maybe you should do some reading to understand the fallacy of your logic in making that statement.

  4. Mephistro Silver badge
    Trollface

    "...legislation that provides these young people raised in our country the permanent solution they deserve."

    I hope this means giving them the citizenship, instead of a "Final Solution" for them.

    With these Muricans, you can never be sure.

  5. Adrian 4 Silver badge

    Who started this ?

    There's so many reversals here it's hard to be sure who's on which side.

    Seems like the problem is with the 10 states' attorneys general. Why don't the 'business leaders' criticise them for their racist inhumanity ?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Who started this ?

      The question is not who started this, it's how to solve this in a manner that preserves a degree of humanity. IMHO, if illegal migrants are employed and are contributing to the nation's economy because they either pay taxes of remove a burden from society it would be folly to send them back.

      Secondly, if someone claims they are taking away work from "genuine" Americans (which would only be the native tribes that used to roam the country before this exported lot rolled in, but I digress), invite said American to take that job. FIND an actual American willing to take the job, and by that I mean at the same salary and with the exact same conditions. If not, leave that immigrant be, because replacing them with your average random redneck would cost too much, and would stop the employer from making enough money to contribute to their orange god in the White House via taxation and more directly via the purchase of funny hats.

      The "taking away jobs" claim is about the easiest to disprove of them all.

      1. Peter2 Silver badge

        Re: Who started this ?

        The "taking away jobs" claim is about the easiest to disprove of them all.

        It is?

        What it means a lot of the time is that employers are able to exploit labour in appalling conditions in the fields at incredibly low wages. They also manage in many cases to further exploit the workers by providing accomodation (eg a caravan stuffed with a dozen people) which they can then deduct wages for, further reducing the amount that has to be paid.

        The labour out in the fields is really a chimera. No, western workers with a decade + of education generally don't want to spend months outside in cold and rain, getting RSI and back injuries picking thousands of fruit every day. That's why the job has been automated in most advanced economies.

        Eg, cabbage harvesting:-

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZ3ZUoz6cWM

        Or Rasberry/blueberry harvesting:-

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bt73GOk4JRY

        Equipment also exists for pretty much everything else. Simply put, if not for an excess of uncontrolled and illegal immigration giving a supply of people who would otherwise not meet the standards required in the immigration process then harvesting with swarms of seasonal labour would be something read about in history books. Companies would mechanise and this would create jobs in higher tech manufacturing, servicing and semi skilled jobs in the use of this equipment.

        However, an excess pool of unskilled labour keeps wages down for everybody, and removes any reason for businesses to spend money on automating back breaking manual work as they can make more profit at the expense of their workers.

        The question is not who started this, it's how to solve this in a manner that preserves a degree of humanity.

        Quite. How about this?

        Q: Were you <10 when you came to our country illegally, do you now belong culturally to our country and are you involved in any criminality?

        if $result == yes&yes&no then status=grant citizenship

        else status=deport

        1. JEDIDIAH
          Boffin

          Re: Who started this ?

          Except illegal labor isn't just about farm workers. I also know people that have done some of that work. To claim that NO ONE would do it otherwise is a little disengenious. The farmers would just have to pay real wages and costs would increase (the same as paying "living wages" to burger flippers).

          Although that's not the end of it. Illegals have been pushed in other industries (like meat packing) helping to drive down working conditions. When you lot get hysterical about American chicken over at the Guardian, labor abuse is part of that picture.

          I also have relatives that have been meat packers. So you can't say that job wouldn't ever be done by "white as sour cream" Americans. The same goes for construction.

          The real problem is that the illegal labor pool creates an underclass ripe for exploitation and helps drive down labor standards for everyone.

  6. Pompous Git Silver badge

    "Microsoft president Brad Smith penned a blog post warning that "these changes would not only negatively impact thousands of hardworking people across the United States, but will be a step backwards for our entire nation."

    CEO Satya Nadella wrote on his LinkedIn page: "We care deeply about the DREAMers who work at Microsoft and fully support them. We will always stand for diversity and economic opportunity for everyone. It is core to who we are at Microsoft and I believe it is core to what America is.""

    Well if Brad Smith and Satya Nadella say so, who are we plebs to argue?

  7. Stevie Silver badge

    Bah!

    When asked for a quote, Ken Paxton said "glug"!

  8. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
    Windows

    Rich CEOs are the new moral guides! Engage laugh track!!

    "Your pension schemes and your medicart will be HURT!!!"

    HA HA HA HA HA.

    This is coming from golden parachuters, tax-squirrelers (not that there is anything wrong with that but one should not be hypocritical) and H1B Visa exploiters probably not batting an eye when the US starts yet another 20-year war and prints money for bailouts, subsidies and tech economy liftups.

    I hope the honorable Bong and Garland of Flowers were at least cos-signatories of this particular peice of cuckery.

  9. W4YBO

    What will the next president do?

    The internal effects of a mutable policy are still more calamitous. It poisons the blessing of liberty itself. It will be of little avail to the people, that the laws are made by men of their own choice, if the laws be so voluminous that they cannot be read, or so incoherent that they cannot be understood; if they be repealed or revised before they are promulgated, or undergo such incessant changes that no man, who knows what the law is to-day, can guess what it will be to-morrow. Law is defined to be a rule of action; but how can that be a rule, which is little known, and less fixed?

    The Federalist No. 62 James Madison (Publius)

    The executive branch is supposed to enforce the laws that the legislative branch passes.

    1. veti Silver badge

      Re: What will the next president do?

      Not quite. The executive branch is supposed to apply the laws that the legislative branch passes. It's a subtle difference, between the executive as a purely passive agent of the legislature, and the executive as an active, independent agent of - something else. (E.g. "The people".)

      The laws have passed the point of being too voluminous to read and too incoherent to understand - they passed that long before most of us were born. They are also too expensive to be enforced. So the executive branch has to make its own judgments about how to prioritise different laws.

      This is by design, the legislative branch passed the laws they did only because they knew this flexibility would be left open. But before you blame them, remember that they were only doing what their constituents pressured them to do; and if they'd attempted to write better laws, they'd probably have been voted out in favour of someone who didn't insist on asking the embarrassing or uncomfortable questions.

      I don't know much about Madison, but I'm always suspicious of people who use the word "liberty". "Liberty" is a word people use to send others to the guillotine. If you actually want them to be free, you talk about "freedom".

      1. W4YBO

        Re: What will the next president do?

        Not quite. Article II, final clause of section 3 of the US Constitution - he shall take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed, and shall Commission all the Officers of the United States.

        Frankly, I'd composed a couple of paragraphs defending Madison when I realized; Silly me! The guy's writing stands on its own after two-hundred plus years. I doubt that either Veti or W4YBO will have any writing that will be referred to two-hundred years hence.

      2. JEDIDIAH
        Linux

        Re: What will the next president do?

        It takes far more than shifting priorities at the Migra to create a condition where undocumented aliens are able to work at Microsoft or are immune from deportation.

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Can't properly tax the rich or corporations, but you can deport kids. What a hate filled shallow country you've become. A lot like us in the UK.

  11. veti Silver badge

    Personally I'm all for sending the DREAMers back, because it's the logical extension of Trump's "policies" and it will help more people to see how indescribably vile the man really is. It'd also be a big boost for the Mexican economy, and a big hit to America's, thus doing some long-overdue levelling between the two

    But "800,000 children born in the US to illegal parents" are surely protected by the 14th amendment. They're citizens, end of story.

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Then and now...

    Sure, America was founded on immigrants. But the whole 'immigrant definition' has changed over the years. The Internet was also once a place where cyberbullying and online harassment meant something a "little" different than merely sharing your disagreement with someone else. Yet according to some people these days merely stating that "I think you're wrong" is parallel to online harassment. Others even take this a whole lot further by spreading plain out lies and halt-truths about heated subjects, and when they get called out for that they immediately switch to a victim role. Now all of a sudden they get attacked because of who they are, obviously not for what they were saying.

    In my opinion this also applies here.

    Sure, deporting children sounds horrific, I totally agree with that. But it's also a fact that plenty of people will easily use children as a means to further their own goals.

    Would you, in your right mind, knowingly and willingly conceive children even if you know up front that you might not be able to support them because your status in the country you're in is uncertain? Would anyone in their right mind do that? Yet that is what you're often dealing with here...

    People who have a foreigner status, who know that their stay is temporary at best and definitely not permanent yet still chose themselves to get children. Should that be a reason for a pardon and let the whole family stay? There are plenty of people who use this as a means to enforce a legal status. And once you give in you can rest assured that you'll get plenty more.

    Despicable to deport children? Sure, I myself am also uneasy about the whole thing. But what does that tell us about people who willingly and knowingly take on the responsibility to raise children even though they can clearly know up front that they won't be able to support them?

    That is the question most people are unwilling to ask themselves.

    It's not fair towards the children, but it's not the government you should be blaming but their parents.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Then and now...

      I disagree for the simple reason that you cannot control who gets to procreate and who does not. Not yet at least...

    2. handleoclast

      Re: Then and now...

      Your argument would be more persuasive but for one little fact. The US does not have a health system where those living in poverty can get access to cheap, effective contraception. Yes, there are charitable organizations, but in certain parts of the US (the ones dominated by the religious far-right), they have difficulty operating.

      When you're so poor that most pleasures are beyond your means, abstinence doesn't seem very appealing.

      It doesn't help that most of those affected are from Mexico and therefore most likely Catholic.

      So yes, the government and the Pope are at least as much to blame as the parents themselves.

      1. JEDIDIAH
        Mushroom

        Re: Then and now...

        You mean that there is no MEDICAID?

        Sure. What other tall tales do you want to tell?

        Liberals are funny. They whine about socialized medicine and then conveniently forget about the government programs we already have.

  13. ThePhantom

    "immigrant children born in the United States"

    Um, no. The phrase should be "illegal immigrant children smuggled into the United States by their illegal immigrant parents."

  14. inmypjs Silver badge

    "Our economy would lose $460.3bn from the national GDP"

    Don't suppose they ever thought Mexico might like that GDP back - thieving racist bastards.

  15. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

    Texas storm recovery

    Isn't that going to be terribly expensive if all the construction is being done by New England craftsmen when you have got rid of all the immigrant labor?

    1. oldcoder

      Re: Texas storm recovery

      It certainly will be expensive.

      More so due to the substandard construction done by companies owned by Trump.

      They won't even pay their suppliers for the materials...

  16. Bob Rocket

    1. 'his plan to remove legal protections from immigrant children born in the United States.'

    and

    2. 'that threaten the future of young undocumented immigrants brought to America as children'

    are two different things.

    Children born on US soil are US Nationals, depending on the country of origin of the parents, the child may have dual nationality, if the parents are deported the child may accompany them but is free to return to the US at any time.

    Children brought to the US are not US Nationals.

    There are legal methods for non-US Nationals to be allowed to live, work and be naturalised in the US, why would anybody use the legal methods if all you have to do is slip over the border and keep your head down for a while.

    All illegal immigrants (whatever their age) should be deported on the day they are caught, to do otherwise encourages others to try their luck.

  17. IGnatius T Foobar

    DACA bad. MAGA good.

    Ignore the hate coming from the political left who assume everything President Trump does is racist. The man does not have a racist bone in his body. Look at the diversity of the people he is working with and for in Texas right now. He is a compassionate man who loves everyone.

    President Trump is against *illegal immigration*, nothing more, nothing less. He doesn't care about a person's ethnicity, he cares about whether they are in the country legally or if they have committed the *crime* of crossing the border without permission.

    Why does Big Tech have an opinion? Simple: they want cheap labor. Anyone who is employed in the United States (including *legal* immigrants) is opposed to loose enforcement of immigration law which allows Big Tech (and others) to have a cheap supply of what is basically slave labor instead of hiring American citizens at American wages.

    1. Pompous Git Silver badge

      Re: DACA bad. MAGA good.

      "The man does not have a racist bone in his body."
      I would have thought refusing to rent apartments to negroes and Puerto Ricans was pretty racist.

      1. oldcoder

        Re: DACA bad. MAGA good.

        Not mentioning pardoning racists, and promoting the white supremacists when they murder people.

  18. Cranky_Yank
    WTF?

    This is about the DACA; these are some facts

    Avg DACA recipient is 26 & came to US at age 6

    91% are employed

    100% have no criminal record

    They pay $500 to renew every 2 yrs ($800M)

    1. inmypjs Silver badge

      Re: This is about the DACA; these are some facts

      "these are some facts"

      Think you misspelt bullshit. Facts obtained from people claiming to be dreamers who chose to fill in an online survey. None of whom admitted to having a criminal record - what a surprise.

      Elsewhere I read the unemployment rate of dreamers is a bit over 40%.

    2. JEDIDIAH
      Devil

      Re: This is about the DACA; these are some facts

      So NOT children then? So everyone can put away their "but think of the children" branded violins.

  19. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Big Tech slams Trump on plan to enforce US immigration law properly because Obama wouldn't...

    ...makes for a far more accurate but less click-friendly headline, doesn't it?

    1. shawnfromnh

      Re: Big Tech slams Trump on plan to enforce US immigration law properly because Obama wouldn't...

      But Obama was a crappy president who just knew how to give speeches well and kiss every minority group on a pedestal and say screw the majority. Screw the illegals, they lower the overall labor wages in areas and take up housing and their kids cost taxpayers because they all need to go to school and that is thousands per year per student. If they were all gone including the criminal gang members the US would be so much better off financially it isn't even funny when you look at the big picture. As for agriculture just give out green cards and when they don't show up to go home then put out a warrant and bust their asses instead of the Liberals just ignoring the problem till it's many millions and not thousands that have to be rounded up.

      1. Public Citizen

        Re: Big Tech slams Trump on plan to enforce US immigration law properly because Obama wouldn't...

        In the 1950s and early '60s there was a program for seasonal agricultural workers called "The Brasero Program" the farmers got their cheap seasonal labor, the Mexican Workers got money for labor and then went home.

        Everyone involved received a benefit and the laws were obeyed. Things started going off the rails durring the Johnson Administration, in this and many other areas of US society.

  20. shawnfromnh

    We're going to lose all this money BILLIONS in GDP. OMG so you're not going to hire new people to those positions when your workers are deported. That's a bold move leaving that important position empty and losing all that money. These liberal companies spout such bullshit its unbelievable like the Social Security won't be made up by their replacements or the taxes. Liberals here in the US sure love to lie or tell huge half truths, sure that money would go missing if no one else got hired but I seriously doubt that'll happen if it'll cost these tech companies money. Though they will be empty positions for a while since companies hire asshole companies to go over applications/resumes for them and those companies take their sweet time. If these companies actually need these positions so much as they claim then they'll fill them within the month but I think they're full of shit myself and just want to make a statement to make Trump look bad but he just donated in his own cash a million to hurricane victims and the networks are making it look like he's up to something but this is normal behavior for him by just looking at his past. I love how companies just think they can get into politics and they won't lose one conservative customer even though a few companies can now say they lost a lot of business for running their stupid yaps about something they should just STFU about.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Learn fucking "punctuation" then you my have a valid rant.

  21. Winkypop Silver badge
    FAIL

    I've read some bombastic drivel in this thread

    But saying Obama is/was worse than Trump is just too far.

    Trump has created his own category of poor performance.

    He stands alone, proudly atop Mount Fail.

  22. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Such caring CEO's

    and here I thought CEO's only cared about maximizing profits for their shareholders, I didn't realize what swell, caring folks they really were. I had foolishly assumed they supported DACA to increase the labour pool and drive down wages to justify their $89M USD annual compensation. Thanks to the author for correcting my misguidance here.

  23. Probie

    The bi partisan diatribe

    You know I have heard this argument in the UK in the USA and likely it will be rehashed in every county under gods yellow ball of fusion.

    "People are abusing our charity" - seems to be what it boils down too. Well here's the answer, you (yes you Mr/Mrs/Ms bi-partisan commentator) stand in front of the effected and deliver the god damn message. It takes some conviction to do that, with fear, panic, loathing and downright horror coming out every single facial expression back to you.

    If you can do that, at least you have the courage of your own thoughts and convictions (however miss guided they may be). Then look inside your soul and see if you are a better person, have you lived up to your ideals?

    Then you have a right to put a life changing view forward, but until then, until you are prepared to step of the cliff of rhetoric to the land of action (AKA wearing the big boy pants), think long an hard, because it is far to easy to do it from the comfort of a arm chair.

  24. ADRM
    WTF?

    Emigrated to USA 18 years ago on 6 Th September

    I understand people who want to live in the USA. I came here from England 18 years ago to marry my love. It cost me several hundred pounds with interviews in the US embassy and a medical test at a doctors office in London. Then I flew over here. More interviews and more costs to prove I deserved a green card which lasts ten years, renewal costs $800+ for a further 10 years and also much more money for citizenship. I went through the legal channels and it pisses me off when people just skirt the system. Why did I bother? I could have just come over for a vacation and stayed? No I did it the legal way and don't have to worry about being rounded up and deported.

POST COMMENT House rules

Not a member of The Register? Create a new account here.

  • Enter your comment

  • Add an icon

Anonymous cowards cannot choose their icon

Biting the hand that feeds IT © 1998–2020