back to article Germans force Microsoft to scrap future pushy Windows 10 upgrades

Microsoft sparked fury when it aggressively pushed its Windows 10 operating system onto people's PCs – from unexpected downloads to surprise installations. Now a consumer rights group has forced Redmond to promise it will never do it again, in Germany at least. In 2015, Microsoft offered existing Windows 7 and 8 users a free …

  1. Oh Homer
    Coffee/keyboard

    "great upgrade experience..."

    Haha! Yes, "great" ... for Microsoft.

    1. codejunky Silver badge

      Re: "great upgrade experience..."

      It has been the most damaging upgrade experience I have had the misfortune to have to deal with. I dont have win10 but my users do and so far I advise people to upgrade to linux or upgrade to windows 7. Windows 8 and 10 are a downgrade and must be avoided. At least thats my advice to users.

      1. gcla72
        Linux

        Re: "great upgrade experience..."

        My worst upgrade experience since Ubuntu decided to install something called Pulseaudio. LTS versions ever since.

  2. Richard 12 Silver badge

    Horse, door, oh...

    Microsoft are on record saying that Windows 10 is the last "major" version, it's a rolling program of "minor" updates from then on.

    I suppose it worked for OSX. When's macOS 11 coming?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Horse, door, oh...

      Major Windows versions are unlike any others. Notorious. Urgent. Scary. Nauseating. Panic-inducing. So it's no wonder that MS prefers to downplay the whole upgrade trauma in future.

      1. Tim Seventh
        Joke

        Re: Horse, door, oh...

        "So it's no wonder that MS prefers to downplay the whole upgrade trauma in future."

        By making each future upgrade just as traumatic as the last one!

        1. chivo243 Silver badge
          Windows

          Re: Horse, door, oh...

          There was one upgrade which didn't suck - 98 -> 2000. In fact I might just spin up a win2000 in a VM and relive the glory day. Yes, day, as in one...

          1. wallaby

            Re: Horse, door, oh...

            "There was one upgrade which didn't suck - 98 -> 2000. In fact I might just spin up a win2000 in a VM and relive the glory day. Yes, day, as in one..."

            I don't need to spin up a VM, there's one a few feet away near the NT4 box

      2. EVMonster

        Re: Horse, door, oh...

        1. Take a chill pill its an OS upgrade.

        2. Get out more.

        3. Install Linux instead.

        4. Grow a beard.

        5. Rant about MS in forums.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Horse, door, oh...

          "it's" not "its"

          Regards,

          A Pedant

    2. Cynical Shopper

      Re: Horse, door, oh...

      "Microsoft are on record saying that Windows 10 is the last "major" version, it's a rolling program of "minor" updates from then on."

      Didn't they say that about IE6? That worked out well...

    3. jelabarre59 Silver badge

      Re: Horse, door, oh...

      I suppose it worked for OSX. When's macOS 11 coming?

      We already have X11

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Microsoft should be prosecuted....

    Microsoft should be prosecuted under the Equality Act 2010 here in the UK. No Question.

    Why Microsoft haven't shows what little backbone the UK Government has for partially sighted, those with dexterity problems, in terms of the type of difficulties they have to deal with daily.

    Whoever pushed this at Microsoft should be truly ashamed. Google is no better with their 35 step Privacy Checkup Prompt, to turn off 5 controls.

    Who designs this shit?

    (Myerson, I'm quite clearly looking at you).

    1. Timmy B Silver badge

      Re: Microsoft should be prosecuted....

      "Microsoft should be prosecuted under the Equality Act 2010 here in the UK. No Question."

      WTF? How on earth are they discriminating on the basis of any of the following with regard to windows updates (the subject in hand)?

      Chapter 1 Protected characteristics

      4.The protected characteristics

      5.Age

      6.Disability

      7.Gender reassignment

      8.Marriage and civil partnership

      9.Race

      10.Religion or belief

      11.Sex

      12.Sexual orientation

      1. Pompous Git Silver badge

        Re: Microsoft should be prosecuted....

        "WTF? How on earth are they discriminating on the basis of any of the following with regard to windows updates (the subject in hand)?"

        5. Age [I'm definitely getting too old for this shit!]

        6. Disability [I have great difficulty coping with functionality being defunctioned]

        7. Gender reassignment [Your guess is as good as mine]

        8. Marriage and civil partnership [Everytime MS fucks me over I froth at the mouth and rant, thus threatening the stability of my marriage]

        9. Race [I guess it's a race to see who can use up my Internet bandwidth quickest – me or MS]

        10. Religion or belief [Windows/Mac/Linux is a religion for some. Get over it.]

        11. Sex [I'm male. That they do this to females as well is no excuse.]

        12. Sexual orientation [I'm hetero, but MS keep shafting me and I'm expected to provide the KY jelly.]

      2. Ken Moorhouse Silver badge

        Re: How on earth are they discriminating

        Ok let's take 6. Disability. The list that follows is not intended to be anywhere near exhaustive.

        If you have vision impairment you might like to ensure sound works on your pc. You don't want to have to call in a specialist to tinker with this and other specialist hardware, such as screen readers and input devices such as the Microwriter (I used to work for a company that supplied into that marketplace) to make that work when it has been compatible and working fine for the past x years. You may become familiar with positions of icons, etc. on the screen. I seem to remember that "standards" were established long ago as to how menus were positioned at the top, with close, maximize and minimize icons in particular location well-defined locations. Never mind that there should be behaviour consistent with "Close" if you press the Close button.

        If you are afflicted with multiple sclerosis or similar then there may be the feeling of exasperation that your methodology of navigation has to be relearned. People feel imprisoned enough within their bodies without making it more difficult to express themselves to the outside world. Similarly for those with more foundational learning challenges.

        1. Timmy B Silver badge

          Re: How on earth are they discriminating

          @Ken "Ok let's take 6. Disability. The list that follows is not intended to be anywhere near exhaustive."

          But that's all PCs / phones / TVs regardless of operating system. Unless they are specifically made restricted/limited for those purposes. Similar to phones designed for the elderly (I have a lot of experience with those) that have far fewer functions compared to modern smart phones. You can't really single out MS when all software / hardware designers are going to be partially at fault too.

          Imagine someone who writes a software solution to work perfectly for the blind. This is almost certainly going to depend on sound. Therefore meaning it won't work for the deaf. Therefore are they failing and should be prosecuted? No.

          We just need common sense, thought and level heads. But I think all of those things are vanishing.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: How on earth are they discriminating

            "You can't really single out MS when all software / hardware designers are going to be partially at fault too."

            You can single out Microsoft (and Google) when it can be shown Microsoft/Google are using manipulative techniques which are, in their design deliberately designed to deceive (or in Google's case, make the process at tedious as possible to switch Google's 5 Privacy settings to "off" using a 35 step design).

            The "Red X Close", which was then used as a means of "Acceptance" to install Windows 10, was against Microsoft's own guidelines in terms of Interface design. It's a design which disproportionally affects disabled users, those with vision impairment and those with dexterity issues.

            No question, Microsoft should be/(should have been) prosecuted.

            Google Privacy Checkup Tool requires a total of 35 clicks of a mouse (it also doesn't work if you have uBlock Origin installed), to manipulate scroll bars, toggle settings, close popups, press back buttons, select "other options", "accept" Google terms.

            If you then open a Private Window in Firefox, none of those settings are carried over, and Google is free to slurp data, even if you have previously gone through all 35 clicks to toggle Google's Privacy Checkup settings to turn everything off.

            These are deliberate attempts to mislead, which disproportionally affects disabled users and those with dexterity issues, if you can't see that you really are a fcuking moron.

            Put yourself in their shoes, when you design this crap. Think. But that's the point Microsoft/Google did, and knew exactly what they were doing.

            1. Alumoi

              Re: How on earth are they discriminating

              If you then open a Private Window in Firefox, none of those settings are carried over, and Google is free to slurp data, even if you have previously gone through all 35 clicks to toggle Google's Privacy Checkup settings to turn everything off.

              If you're browsing the web while signed into your Google/Facebook account then you deserve to be tracked.

          2. hplasm Silver badge
            Gimp

            Re: How on earth are they discriminating

            We just need common sense, thought and level heads. But I think all of those things are vanishing in Redmond, and their apologists.

            FTFY.

  4. Queeg

    "That tweak was rolled out worldwide – so perhaps the above promise on friendlier upgrades will make its way across the globe, too."

    I wouldn't put any money on that, we are talking Microsoft here.

  5. kain preacher Silver badge

    I don;t understand what's the problem. WIn 10 is the best os since Me.I mean it sped my P4 up to the speed of a blazing fast 25MhZ 386. Ans stable as an over clocked winchip.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "I don;t understand what's the problem. WIn 10 is the best os since Me."

      I don't understand either. My wife's windows 10 laptop is infinitely more capable than my linux based laptop.

      <*full disclosure*> I'm a Gentoo user, my hard disk died and I'm halfway through re-installing. Yeah, I've heard of backups... they're for user data, yes?

  6. FozzyBear Silver badge
    Headmaster

    "great Upgrade experience", "most secure" "most productive"

    Microsoft really do need to invest in a dictionary.

    1. Pompous Git Silver badge

      "Microsoft really do need to invest in a dictionary."
      No, they need to invest in creating a decent os, not the POS that's w10.

      Mrs Git's "new" lappy kindly donated by The Gitling has w10, fortunately with the Classic Shell. After faffing around attempting to get w10 to see the printer on my machine, I discovered PC settings where the identical dialog miraculously worked. Still won't join the homegroup though. Sees the homegroup, requests the password and then spends many minutes cogitating before declaring that it can no longer see the homegroup and offering to create a new one. FFS! There are more important things in life...

      1. Mage Silver badge
        Facepalm

        Homegroup?

        Turn off that nonsense, disable all the services and setup networking to use DHCP from your router or a NAS box.

        If you have no NAS, Server or storage on the Router's USB port, then only enable file & Print sharing and Server Service on ONE PC/Laptop that is on when any other is on.

        Peer to Peer with every PC sharing was stupid on WFWG in 1990s. Homegroup is stupid extension of this idea.

        Also make sure uPnP is disabled on any Router. I disable it, the associated SSSD and all the IOT services too as those are infection vectors. A gadget can automatically install over network. Worse than Autorun, an evil convenience that should never have been added to Windows. The Amiga showed why before Win 95 had it.

        1. Michael Habel Silver badge

          Re: Homegroup?

          Can you do all that? - YES you could!

          At some point will M$ reset these 'changes' disrespecting your 'decisions' and reappling their " We know what's best for you!" Settings? - Yes the will, and at the end of the Day that's the major problem with Win X.

          They can leave the Default Settings as they will, and pray that the average Luzer is to ignorant to care. But, this huge F' YOU to those that do know what their doing is just to damned much!

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Homegroup?

          Also make sure uPnP is disabled on any Router.

          Also make sure uPnP is disabled on any Router.

          Also make sure uPnP is disabled on any Router.

          Repeated three times, because so important of late. It's being actively exploited by just visiting a malicious website, with the site injecting/opening IN/OUT Ports to the uPnP table.

          Netgear routers seem the most at risk.

          1. Roland6 Silver badge

            Re: Homegroup?

            Re: Also make sure uPnP is disabled on any Router.

            The problem is that uPnP and its associated services can be useful within your network. I find it irritating that so many routers in their uPnP settings don't distinguish between internal usage and external usage.

            I'm reminded of past discussions about Bonjour services (eg. Airprint), where Apple quite correctly restricted them to a single subnet and then people started calling for them to be routable...

      2. Michael Habel Silver badge

        Which begs the question

        How good can Win X be if your lucky enough to be running the more same Enterprise Edition?

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        This:

        "No, they need to invest in creating a decent os, not the POS that's w10".

        They did, twice in fact with XP and 7.

        But long gone are the halcyon days where USERS were in control.

        Now users are just that, users. They don't own the OS (again, xp and 7 were standalone, bought to own) so are at the mercy of M$.

        I've always been one of M$'s biggest fanbois but the last 2 years have seen poor idea upon poor decision foisted upon us loyal users.

        Way to alienate us M$.

    2. trog-oz

      "great Upgrade experience", "most secure" "most productive"

      Microsoft really do need to invest in a dictionary.

      They probably looked it up in the Encarta Dictionary. Personally, I would have used a Funk & Wagnalls or my Websters (which, of course, is Morocco bound).

    3. Roland6 Silver badge

      Re: "great Upgrade experience"

      So that's why we all love MS and Win10! :)

      MS don't intend us to actually use Win10 to do any real work, just to experience the upgrade and watch the ad's and dream about all the things we could use it for but will never get around to doing - a bit like owning a 4x4 and only driving it around town.

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Don't F***ing talk to me about W10 upgrades

    This week the complete and utter b****tards have pushed me in excess usage charges by downloading 6+GB per PC during peak business hours. They should be upgraded to living with only an 300baud modem for all their communication needs for the rest of the pitiful lives.

    1. Pompous Git Silver badge

      Re: Don't F***ing talk to me about W10 upgrades

      "This week the complete and utter b****tards have pushed me in excess usage charges by downloading 6+GB per PC"
      Funny you should mention that. MS pushed 3 redundant copies of w10 onto my computers. The one I resented most was via mobile wireless to my lappy while I was on holidays. That's when I decided to give Cinnamon Mint a try and it's still the only OS on my Zenbook. That stopped MS pushing their unwanted crap very smartly.

      1. Michael Habel Silver badge

        Re: Don't F***ing talk to me about W10 upgrades

        Forking Cinnamon Mint 4 teh win!

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Don't F***ing talk to me about W10 upgrades

      "This week the complete and utter b****tards have pushed me in excess usage charges by downloading 6+GB per PC during peak business hours. They should be upgraded to living with only an 300baud modem for all their communication needs for the rest of the pitiful lives."

      Or maybe.... and here's the rub - Sysadmins should control what upgrades are let onto their PCs

      Aren't they responsible for what goes on the internal networks

      1. pdxITgirl

        Re: Don't F***ing talk to me about W10 upgrades

        Some of us ARE sys admins, explicitly deny these KB's in WSUS, and MS still forces it anyway! Like they've done every couple of days since the beginning of October on my work laptop, including FIVE TIMES LAST NIGHT! Despite my best efforts, a couple of user laptops STILL got auto upgraded to 10. I hate hate hate HATE MS!!!! Dealing with this crap for two many decades. I've done everything possible to keep this from happening, and they're still pushing it. NO WAY I'm allowing 10 on this network.

  8. Kev99 Bronze badge

    German protect consumers, the US sells out consumers. Who was it that lost the war?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      German protect consumers, the US sells out consumers. Who was it that lost the war?

      Looks like somebody missed a history lesson or two. The Great Reich was always very keen on consumer rights; just not so good with the individual liberties, political freedoms, and who it would consider to be worthy of having any rights at all.

    2. Ken Hagan Gold badge

      The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. I think most countries have taken their eye off the ball at some point or other.

  9. Mark 85 Silver badge

    For those of us who didn't fall into the trap... I guess we'll just keep our automatic updates turned off and watch the industry news carefully to see if they try pulling that crap again.

    1. Phil 54

      "Optional"?

      Good luck turning off updates on Windows 10!

      1. Mage Silver badge

        Re: "Optional"?

        Add WiFi adaptor to desktop and set to metered?

        Where is the setting to set ethernet connection to metered?

        Tricky to find where to turn back on driver installs when "metered" applied.

      2. EddieD

        Re: "Optional"?

        It's weird about these update thingies.

        I haven't yet had the Creators Update (which is a bloody stupid name for an update), and neither have about a third of folk I know. With the Fall update coming soon, I have to wonder if a) Microsoft have stopped making OS updates for my age of machine (Haswell refresh) and will require me to go to their website to update in future, or b) they've mucked up the roll out.

        I'm not too fussed - it's working okay on the current iteration and I'm not missing the "features" of the upgrade, but what is concerning is that if I go to "Update History" in the settings all it says is "No updates have been installed yet". So why do I have forced restarts every month? Am I getting security updates?

        Methinks Microsoft has a few issues these days with their updates over and above quality control

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: "Optional"?

          ... but what is concerning is that if I go to "Update History" in the settings all it says is "No updates have been installed yet" ...

          The August cumulative WX update has helpfully wiped the update history for you after installing itself. Presumably to make sure you can't go back so that you do not have to go to the bother of doing it yourself.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            August Cumulative Update on Win10_1607AU = Wiping of Update History.

            Glad that wasn't just me too. August cumulative WX update wiped my Update History too, but it had failed about 5 times before it did, so maybe it's Microsoft's way of cleaning up the Update History rather than provide a proper editor to remove rogue failed Windows Update entries.

            Comes after complaints that even just shutting down the machine during a background update, was causing failed updates i.e. MS Update process couldn't tell the difference between a normal user shutdown breaking an update, and well, a failed process led breaking of an update during it's install.

            Windows Update is still a clunky bag of nails, with no real fix in sight. Time to replace those in charge of WU.

          2. Teiwaz Silver badge

            Re: "Update History" non-person...

            Next Project will be to wipe every bad review they've ever gotten off the internet.

            Next Freebie will be the MS sponsored chip that will allow shopping, browsing etc... [insert attractive technology allows you to lead exciting life patois] anytime, but with strange failures and deficiencies......

            So........Did the political class all get free prototypes???

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: "Update History" non-person...

              Next Project will be to wipe every bad review they've ever gotten off the internet.

              Not quite... Their next project will be to wipe the people who gave W10 bad reviews off the face of the planet. Then they can't testify in Court come judegment day.

              I'm about to celebrate a year of being Windows free and don't regret it one little bit. My B.P. is way lower than it was before I gave Windows the boot.

    2. Novex

      For those of us who didn't fall into the trap... I guess we'll just keep our automatic updates turned off and watch the industry news carefully to see if they try pulling that crap again.

      Hear, hear! I have now installed LM on a brand new lappy. Win XP 64 bit and Win 7 32 bit in VMs which can be backed up and easily restored should MS try that trick again.

      The Win 10 install that came with the machine is on the HDD but that's been removed and replaced with an SSD for LM. I've made a clone of the HDD just in case I ever need to restore and use the Win 10 install, and eventually the 500GB HDD will get put in a caddy as a useful little* backup source.

      God, when did 500GB become 'little'? :lol:

      1. EVMonster
        Unhappy

        Oh, grow up why dont yer ...

    3. Digitall
      Linux

      'For those of us who didn't fall into the trap... I guess we'll just keep our automatic updates turned off and watch the industry news carefully to see if they try pulling that crap again.'

      Auto updates have been off since they retired their QA / Testing dept.

      Now got to the stage no-matter whether W7, W8 or W10, MS STILL send out buggy patches on patch tuesday. I seen this coming back in 2013 and made the slow gradual shift to the 'OS of the gods' with only one device left only testing MS orientated crapware, spyware, telemetry and store apps in readiness for a funeral pyre.

      1. Michael Habel Silver badge

        Auto updates have been off since they retired their QA / Testing dept.

        That's 'cause you ARE part of the QA Testing Team now! Now be a good goy, and make sure by the time these Updates get to Win X Enterprise. That all them Bugs got quashed!

  10. Winkypop Silver badge
    Trollface

    Don't mention the war

    I said 'Microsoft' once, but I think I got away with it...

  11. bombastic bob Silver badge
    FAIL

    Too late...

    Don't touch the hair... don't touch the hair... don't touch the hair... TOO LATE!!!

    If you've seen the movie, and understand the reference, it's kinda like what happened to Brad, after it was "too late", to suddenly find yourself with Win-10-nic instead of 7 (or even "Ape") and now, you can NEVER go back to the way it was before...

    So even when Micro-shaft [heh - perfect considering the earlier reference] promises to "never do it again" it doesn't matter, not one bit. You've lost your virginity and that's that. And not in a GOOD way, either.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Too late...

      " [heh - perfect considering the earlier reference] "

      sooooooooooooooooooooooooo predicable and tedious as it came from BB more like

  12. adam payne Silver badge

    "Our goal is for our customers to have a great upgrade experience and enjoy the most secure and most productive Windows," a Microsoft spokesperson told us. "We're pleased this matter is resolved."

    Windows 10 that POS that slurps data and forces you to use that horrible interface.

    I myself wouldn't call that an upgrade.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "We're pleased this matter is resolved."

      Myself, I wouldn't call it resolved. Anything but. People soon forget the effort it took to avoid repeated attempt to reissue/reinstall GetWinX Win7 Malware, via Windows Update.

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "Offering free upgrades to Windows 10 in 2015"

    Yeah, using malware nagging tactics to do that. Some offer it was eh?

    1. Wensleydale Cheese Silver badge

      Re: "Offering free upgrades to Windows 10 in 2015"

      I stashed my WIn7 box on top of the wardrobe until that "generous offer" ran out.

      After so long not using it, I've got used to running quieter boxes, so on top of the wardrobe the thing remains.

  14. Bloodbeastterror

    "Krauts"...?

    This is the second article in two days using this word. I look forward to your next article on Lenovo with the headline including "Chinks".

    1. Pompous Git Silver badge

      Re: "Krauts"...?

      "This is the second article in two days using this word."
      At least it's not Sauerkrauts ;-)

      Maybe they're Amon Düül, Kraftwerk, Neu!, Tangerine Dream, Faust and Can fans...

    2. Nattrash
      Trollface

      Re: "Krauts"...?

      You Limeys teaming up with the Yanks again? Still not sure all Canadians are keeners...

  15. Michael Habel Silver badge

    Why force choke a bitch when you can just shut them out?

    The Consumer Center in Baden-Württemberg filed a cease-and-desist complaint against Redmond regarding the practice, and the software giant has unexpectedly caved and promised never to do it again.

    Yeah since giving its cancer away for free worked out sooo well... They had to stoop as low to start blocking Users from installing older versions of Windows 7 on newer Chips.

    Windows 10 NEVER!

    1. jelabarre59 Silver badge

      Re: Why force choke a bitch when you can just shut them out?

      Windows 10 NEVER!

      Isn't that why they didn't call it "Windows 9"? Because it sounded too much like "Windows? Nein!!!!"

  16. Adam 1 Silver badge

    sweet

    Now I just need to learn German.

  17. MJI Silver badge

    10 is not fit for purpose

    Looks crap

    Reliable .exes become unreliable causing support issues.

    Printing layout issues requiring recompilation of the report writers code (if you have it.)

    Random hangs of the OS on itself.

    Then annoyances on the GUI, why does start menu bring up little pictures of random rubbish, where is there something called a Store running?

    Why is everything sorted strangely?

    I am currently on 7 (due to getting over powered PC when 7 was current), but absolutley dreading having to have Windows 10, I see the problems other users in the office are having and sitting here wondering if I can get my PC to last another 12 years.

    I just know I will be a nightmare to the hardware maintenance company when I am finally punished.

  18. Oengus Silver badge

    Cost of doing business

    Microsoft will be less pushy in Germany

    Microsoft will break the deal as soon soon as the fines are less than the cost of compliance (or less than they can make from breaking the law) and they will fight tooth and nail in the courts then come up with a "voluntary" payment with no admission of guilt. Regardless the customers will be screwed over and get no recompense.

  19. samzeman

    I honestly can't think of anything win10 has done for me that a new design theme (if it had ever worked on my win7) couldn't. I don't use Cortana or the store (who does?) and it really doesn't seem like there's any actual upgrade happening in this upgrade.

  20. jelabarre59 Silver badge

    Re: Why the delay?

    so perhaps the above promise on friendlier upgrades will make its way across the globe, too.

    https://imgflip.com/i/1upuk3

  21. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Windows 10 is a joke OS, unreliable, ugly, and prone to self destruction. Twice in the last year mine has needed a complete reinstallation from a backup after refusing to boot. Windows update is a slow, ponderous, version of Russian roulette. By contrast linux is a joy to use - except now for skype which has been turned into a turd by microsoft. What a surprise.

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