back to article World's largest private submarine in mystery sink accident

One of the world's only privately built submarines has reportedly sunk under mysterious circumstances on the Danish coast. The 33-ton diesel-electric boat, UC3 Nautilus, is said to have foundered after getting into difficulty in Køge Bay, around 25 miles southwest of Copenhagen. Prominent Swedish newspaper Aftonbladet wrote …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    A crowdfunded vessel sinking.

    What are the odds?

    1. wolfetone Silver badge
      Joke

      "A crowdfunded vessel sinking.

      What are the odds?"

      Well if Retro Computers Ltd were in charge of building the submarine, it'd never get the chance to sink.

    2. samzeman

      It's a powerful metaphor to be sure.

      I do feel a little bad for them though. I'm the type of person to want to buy a submarine (I'd be in massive debt) and I can't imagine how gutted I'd be if it sunk... in a bad way.

  2. SkippyBing Silver badge

    Ironically the Danish navy got rid of its submarines a few years ago so this would have been the most powerful one there even without weapons.

    1. Rich 11 Silver badge

      even without weapons.

      What's Danish for "Conn, ramming speed!"?

      1. Chemical Bob

        According to Google Translate...

        "Conn, stampeblanding fart"

      2. TheElder

        What's Danish for "Conn, ramming speed!"?

        I speak Danish.

        Ramming speed = Vædder fart

        Also the concept of a ramming includes a ram with a big dick in Danish and English.

        So we have a Big Dick Fart.

        The captains name is Peter. That name is derived from the noun Stone (in English). Perhaps the captain was stoned on something that produces gas....

        1. Chemical Bob

          Re: What's Danish for "Conn, ramming speed!"?

          "I speak Danish."

          Clearly, Google doesn't :/

          1. TheElder

            Re: What's Danish for "Conn, ramming speed!"?

            Clearly, Google doesn't

            Google doesn't understand the military concepts or they try to censor them. A good example is Cock Pit

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Vædder fart

          Good thing it wasn't a Darth Vædder fart!

    2. boltar Silver badge

      "Ironically the Danish navy got rid of its submarines a few years ago "

      Who are they hoping will come and rescue them if russia starts getting belligerent in the Baltic Sea?

      Sweden?

  3. PNGuinn
    Pirate

    Overland journey?

    "One of the world's only privately built submarines has reportedly sunk under mysterious circumstances on the Danish coast."

    Good trick if you can do it.

    See title.

  4. chivo243 Silver badge
    Coat

    So...

    There is something rotten in Denmark?

    And as for the iconic shape of a submarine... I've flushed better shaped things.

  5. Your alien overlord - fear me
    Facepalm

    If this was crab shaped (aka a scientific sub) would it have scuttled itself?

    1. Scroticus Canis
      Pirate

      Crab shaped or spheroidal don't go anywhere - just up, down and scuttle about seabed.

      So while this typical sub-shaped submarine is currently scuttling about the seabed on the ebb and flow of the tides, it should be more capable than a crab-shaped submersible at going from A to B without a surface ship to lug it about while clear of the water.

    2. Adam 1 Silver badge

      I sea what you did there

      /I'll grab my wetsuit

  6. Flocke Kroes Silver badge

    There are worse ways to sink a submarine

    The old story was much funnier. Sometimes there is a downside to checking wakipedia before posting, as there is some evidence that the internet has been unfair to Captain Schlitt.

    1. WorsleyNick
      Unhappy

      Re: There are worse ways to sink a submarine

      The old story, in British Submarines was known as 'getting your own back', as you had to lean over the bowl in order to flush.

      1. Swarthy Silver badge
        Coffee/keyboard

        Re: There are worse ways to sink a submarine

        There's a reason submariners I've known call it the freckle locker.

      2. bombastic bob Silver badge
        Devil

        Re: There are worse ways to sink a submarine

        "you had to lean over the bowl in order to flush."

        U.S. subs have a 3 foot lever (with green handle) to operate a 3 inch (or so) ball valve. Instructions for operating the toilet are on the wall. And you could operate it standing up, more or less, without sticking your nose in the bowl.

        instructions were something like:

        a) ensure ball valve is shut.

        b) use the commode

        c) open ball valve

        d) flush with sea water using sea water valve

        e) shut ball valve

        f) leave approximately one inch of water covering valve

        it was implied that if your crap stuck to the side of the bowl, you were supposed to get some TP and wipe it so it went down the hole. Maybe that's when you'd get a bit of poo-gass in your face.

        the toilets were made of a kind of stainless steel that tolerates sea water. but during 'field day' people cleaning the heads would use a bit of coolaid (aka 'bug juice') from the galley to shine 'em up a bit. It actually works pretty well.

  7. druck Silver badge
    Meh

    Cruashed

    Well at least if the hatches were left open when it went down, it wouldn't be crushed. Might even be salvageable.

  8. PNGuinn
    Alert

    Nice Linkey

    Interesting picture of a very grotty place showing no submarine. Is this offered by the Danes as proof that the sub's sunk?

    Reminds me of a picture I once saw entitled "Cow eaten grass" ...

    Via Google mangle:

    "According to TV 2 News, Peter Madsen has been flown away in a helicopter wrapped in carpets."

    Madsen or the helicopter? Enquiring minds etc ...

    Any sign of a bag of quicklime, a submarine backhoe digger or a PFY??

    So many icons to choose from and so little time ...

    >> Mine's the one with the blow up rubber ring in the pocketses.

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    now there's an idea ...

    Nonetheless, the submarine hull form is now iconic, in the same way as Concorde will forever represent supersonic passenger aircraft. ®

    crowd-funding for a private supersonic passenger aircraft, anyone ?

    1. Rich 11 Silver badge

      Re: now there's an idea ...

      I'm in.

      We should be able to get it to go supersonic by dropping it from a great height.

      Just an outline thought.

    2. mIRCat
      Mushroom

      Re: now there's an idea ...

      I'm in for a tenner. When should I expect my first free flight?

      All's well that doesn't end in rapid unscheduled disassembly.

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    What's sixze got to do with it?

    Article reads that the crushing depth is somehow less of a problem for a bigger vessel. I'd have thought that if anything, the relationship would be inverse. And the Trieste seems to back my case....

    1. G Mac

      Re: What's sixze got to do with it?

      The Trieste was not a true submarine, it was a bathyscaphe:

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bathyscaphe.

      Essentially a sphere for us humans (= best shape to withstand pressure) suspended below a large tank of gasoline (= less dense than water and incompressible). It got back to the surface by releasing it's iron shot ballast.

      What I noted about the article's submarine was that it had portholes! I would of thought that was a major weak spot.

      1. bombastic bob Silver badge
        Boffin

        Re: What's sixze got to do with it?

        actually, a larger sized vessel would have a better positive bouyancy on the surface. You can run the calculations, but basically the displacement of the hull, combined with the volume of air inside the boat plus empty ballast tanks, and the total mass and shape of the boat itself (with empty tanks), determines how much of the boat must be submerged at all times. The larger the boat, the more likely this is to be a higher value for positive bouyancy. Typically that might be something like 85% of the hull submerged at all times, and the other 15% is controlled/compensated by ballast and trim tanks.

        in this case...

        It's a fair bet that there was a major seawater leak, and too much water went into the people tank, forcing the boat to sink. Blowing ballast and pumping trim wouldn't have been enough to get positive bouyancy.

        I suspect that some low-price low-quality component failed (the U.S. Navy has a program called 'sub safe' to prevent the $5 part from sinking the billion dollar boat). It could have been a port hole, a valve, a weld, a pipe fitting, a ballast tank vent, or anything that couldn't be properly isolated, nor have the drain pump [assuming it had one] pump the water overboard fast enough.

        All of those kinds of safety systems would have to be designed with surviving a flooding casualty.

        So one possibility is that one of the portholes blew out because it was made of substandard materials. Again, $50 part sinking the million dollar boat. Oops.

        They should have had some means of RAPIDLY isolating the cause of the leak [assuming there was not]. They should have a means to get the water off the boat assuming "worst case leak". The 'drain pump' would have to be reliable enough to run with the power out (let's say on separate battery power), and run submerged if needed. A backup pump would also be a good idea. Being able to isolate compartments would be even better, especially if you can pressurize a compartment that is being flooded. [watch any old sub movie, and they'll talk about that, pressurizing a compartment to keep the water out, and run on the surface so the water pressure is lower, use the drain pump to get water out, etc.]

        So yeah making a _SAFE_ boat that can go underwater to 500 meters is NOT something to be taken lightly. You have to consider the behavior of materials under cyclic compressive stress, the ability to recover from a reasonable flooding casualty, safety systems that can be remotely activated, 'emergency blow' on the ballast tanks guaranteed to work every time, and operating procedures that go along with all of this stuff [as well as maintenance]. And if one of the ballast vents fails, can you recover from that? How about 2 vents? Compartmented ballast tanks with multiple vents helps make that possible. I think the old WW2 boats had 6 or 8 ballast tanks, each with its own vent valve, that was shut as soon as they submerged so they could emergency blow on a moment's notice.

        And all of the welds on the hull should be x-rayed for cracks and other defects on a regular basis. The fracture toughness of the hull material should be well known, and all design margins calculated based on the minimum detectable flaw sizes, like would be done for a bridge, or a cargo ship, or anything else made of steel that's likely to undergo heavy stresses during normal operation.

        And the maximum allowed depth should be based on the worst case design margin in the worst possible place, for safety. The claims of 400 to 500 meters is pretty optimistic, yeah.

        /me points out that at 500 meters, water pressure would be about 800psi... imaging getting hit with a stream of water at 800psi because something broke. Even a half-inch hole at 800psi could slice you in half. It's no joke dealing with this kind of thing.

      2. hplasm Silver badge
        Headmaster

        Re: What's sixze got to do with it?

        "I would of thought that was a major weak spot."

        Second only to the grammar that has been crushed...

    2. handleoclast Silver badge

      Re: What's sixze got to do with it?

      Yeah, I assumed crushing would be a bigger problem the bigger the vessel. Or at least the bigger vessel would require proportionately thicker bulkheads to operate at the same depth.

      No doubt somebody who actually understands these things will pop up sooner or later to give the correct answer.

      1. NelC

        Re: What's sixze got to do with it?

        I was going to comment on this, but you've got it essentially correct. It's to do with the curvature of the pressure hull; like an arch, the tighter the curve, the stronger it can withstand pressure. A smaller sub will withstand a greater pressure than a larger sub with the same thickness of hull.

        On the other hand, the cube-square law applies: the bigger the sub, the more material it can have in the hull for the same buoyancy. That's assuming that they have the same arrangement of ballast tanks, of course, but then it's relatively easy to add more tankage in the design.

    3. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken Silver badge

      Re: What's sixze got to do with it?

      "While her theoretical crush depth is given as "400m-500m", this seems a tad optimistic. Proper naval submarines tend to operate at these levels, and the 18-metre Nautilus is far smaller than those."

      A DSRV is much smaller than any sub with a combat role, but can dive much, much deeper.

      And I'd go as far as calling it a proper naval submarine.

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Crush depth optimism?

    The article states:

    "While her theoretical crush depth is given as "400m-500m", this seems a tad optimistic. Proper naval submarines tend to operate at these levels, and the 18-metre Nautilus is far smaller than those."

    I agree that the claimed crush depth does seem optimistic on the face of it, but from an engineering point of view the bigger a submarine, the greater the challenge of designing it to withstand pressure.

    The "crush depth" is derived from the pressure calculated to cause the pressure hull to fail catastrophically. The design depth of a submarine is calculated as the nominal maximum depth the sub can cope with before pressure hull failure, allowing for a certain margin of error in addition to the raw crush depth calculation; the pressure at which failure will actually occur is hopefully greater than the specified design depth.

    Now consider that military submarines are operated in peacetime at much less than their crush depth: in peacetime, the maximum operating depth aka "test depth" is (according to the Wikipedia article on submarine depth ratings): 2/3 design depth for US subs, 4/7 for RN subs, 1/2 for German subs.

    That article also states this:

    "Modern nuclear attack submarines like the American Seawolf class are estimated to have a test depth of 490 m (1,600 ft), which would imply (see above) a collapse depth of 730 m (2,400 ft)."

    Taking all that into account, perhaps UC3 Nautilus was indeed designed with the claimed crush depth.

    How much faith the people behind UC3 Nautilus had in their crush depth calculations and construction quality can perhaps be gauged by the fact that the Wikipedia article on the sub states that they operated UC3 Nautilus at depths of no more than a nominal 100m (1/4 to 1/5 of the crush depth) - or maybe they were just being super-cautious.

    1. Eddy Ito Silver badge

      Re: Crush depth optimism?

      Precisely. There's a reason why crush depth isn't operational depth. Consider a tube 2 meters in diameter with a 25 mm wall, a back of the envelope calculation at 50 atmospheres pressure, which is approximately 500 m depth, only produces stress of 180 MPa which is only about 70%-80% yield for mild steel and your high strength steels can potentially be 3 times stronger if not more. If you could make a perfect vessel it shouldn't have many issues. The problems are going to be in the slight defects introduced in welding and other things like seals for the hatches, shafts, and other miscellaneous but necessary holes which tend to make very nice stress risers.

      1. Unicornpiss Silver badge

        Re: Crush depth optimism?

        Well, you don't run your car just below redline all the time either or use a capacitor with a working voltage of 20V in a circuit with 19.9 volts. At least not if you want some longevity. And running a sub at close to its theoretical crush depth would tend to make me fear for its occupants' longevity.

    2. Baldrickk Silver badge

      Re: Crush depth optimism?

      It also had portholes, presumably for seeing things outside.

      Not a lot to see 100m down. Not much point going deeper unless you are hiding from other vessels, collecting surface (sea-bed) samples, or simply want to brag that you went that deep.

      Safer and just as fun to cruise at a more confortable depth.

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    But, but, but ..

    .. aren's submarines supposed to sink? AFAIK, a submarine that floats is called a ship.

    I'm all confused now, it's too close for the weekend for this..

    :)

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: But, but, but ..

      No, functional submarines 'dive', sinking is as bad for a sub as a surface vessel.

      1. Richard 12 Silver badge

        Re: But, but, but ..

        Hence the traditional submarine Captain's cry:

        "Sink! Sink! Sink!"

        1. bombastic bob Silver badge
          Headmaster

          Re: But, but, but ..

          actually it's "Dive, Dive" and "Surface, Surface, Surface". if you hear anything else, in a movie or anywhere else for that matter, they're doing it wrong. heh. [there's an equal number of blasts on the diving alarm, 2 for dive, 3 for surface]. So no "Dive, Dive, Dive" nor "Surface, Surface". I snicker a bit when they do that. Hollywood... heh

          not being too pedantic, because even submarine movies get it wrong sometimes, and they're supposed to have ex-Navy consultants to keep them on track...

          1. hplasm Silver badge
            Happy

            Re: But, but, but ..

            It's 'whoosh whoosh whoosh'...

            Sarcastic propellers overhead.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: But, but, but ..

              It's 'whoosh whoosh whoosh'...

              Sarcastic propellers overhead.

              Oh, it's OK, it amuses me greatly when people go in all seriousness into a piss take while the joke innocently flies over their head. It's part of the fun of making the joke in the first place, and this wasn't even a particularly good one :).

          2. Stoneshop Silver badge
            Headmaster

            Re: But, but, but ..

            if you hear anything else, in a movie or anywhere else for that matter,

            I doubt they'd be using 'Dive, dive' on vessels where English is not the native language. Such as, for instance, in Denmark.

  13. dkjd

    submarines owner is charged with murder now

  14. John Smith 19 Gold badge
    Coat

    "Real submarines are rare"

    No doubt.

    How big a vessel is needed to carry 2 tonnes of "cargo" from Columbia to say Miami quietly enough to avoid Coast Guard sonar?

    It's life jacket.

    1. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Devil

      Re: "Real submarines are rare"

      "quietly enough to avoid Coast Guard sonar?"

      it's not likely they'd evade U.S. Navy sonar, but the Navy subs and anti-sub aircraft would kinda have to be looking for them...

      The Coast Guard probably doesn't have as good of equipment as the Navy. But they'd coordinate if things got bad enough. During the cold war the military put listening devices all over the ocean. That's going to make it very hard for anyone to get a submarine into U.S. coastal waters without detection.

      this tech is really old:

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SOSUS

      http://www.public.navy.mil/subfor/underseawarfaremagazine/Issues/Archives/issue_25/sosus.htm

      I suspect it's a lot better, now.

      Even the tech that I know about [which shouldn't be discussed here] is over 30 years old and I suspect that things are a LOT more sophisticated nowadays. The threat of a diesel/electric boat sneaking into a harbor to perform a terrorist attack has been on a lot of military minds since 2001.

      on a lighter note, the movie 'Down Periscope" with Kelsey Grammer

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down_Periscope

      1. Ogi

        Re: "Real submarines are rare"

        Private submarines have been possible for a while, but the only people with the cashflow and a real need are the mafia, who don't really advertise their capabilities. The only knowledge is from submarines scuttled or captured by authorities while in dock, like this one:

        On 3 July 2010 the Ecuadorian authorities seized a fully functional, completely submersible diesel electric submarine in the jungles bordering Ecuador and Colombia.[3] It had a cylindrical fiberglass and Kevlar hull 31 m long, a 3 m conning tower with periscope, and air conditioning. The vessel had the capacity for about 10 tonnes of cargo, a crew of five or six people, the ability to fully submerge down to 20 m, and capable of long-range underwater operation.

        Excerpt from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narco-submarine, which is a really interesting read in of itself. Seems drug runners have been at it for a long time, as reports and rumors abounded in the 1980s of scuttled submersibles being discovered.

        Sure they don't dive as deep as this one, but it was captured in 2010, so 7 years have passed. It could be that the ones capable of submersing deeper just haven't been captured yet. Just like the government, you can never be sure what the current state of the art is with the mafia.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: "Real submarines are rare"

        "The threat of a diesel/electric boat sneaking into a harbor to perform a terrorist attack has been on a lot of military minds since 2001"

        Why car bombers dont use Prius'

  15. TheElder

    Pictures

    Here are much better pictures of the UC3 Nautilus.

    UC3 Nautilus

    1. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken Silver badge

      Re: Pictures

      Why does it seem to have outer doors for torpedo tubes, though?

      (Paging Skip Tyler.)

      1. Daniel B.

        Re: Pictures

        It's the caterpillar drive, of course!

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    No, it is not google... but they canceled meeting anyway...

  17. bombastic bob Silver badge

    possible crime scene? 7m of water?

    According to wikipedia:

    "The sunken submarine lies at a depth of 7 m and is being investigated as a possible crime scene"

    they link here:

    http://www.mynewsdesk.com/dk/koebenhavns-politi/pressreleases/drabssigtelse-i-sag-om-ubaad-2105443

    it doesn't say a whole lot [I used google translate and screamed at the irritations] but it's non-wikipedia a link, anyway.

    If it's only in 7m of water they should be able to recover it. Question is whether it's now a crime scene.

  18. jonfr

    Arrested for murder of the Swedish journalist

    The Danish news is now reporting that the captain of the submarine has been arrested for murder of the Swedish journalist. She is now been searched for.

    DR News (in Danish): http://www.dr.dk/nyheder/indland/ubaadsejer-sigtet-drab-paa-svensk-kvinde

    The yellow paper (Ekstrabladet) are reporting there might be a security footage from the harbour area where he travelled from a nearby restaurant. I will not link to Ekstrabladet news articles, due to other unrelated news articles that are seriously not safe for work by UK standards (fine in Denmark).

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Arrested for murder of the Swedish journalist

      I will not link to Ekstrabladet news articles, due to other unrelated news articles that are seriously not safe for work by UK standards (fine in Denmark).

      Like what? I must have a look now, you evil commentard :).

      1. TheElder
        Trollface

        I must have a look now

        Something to do with a licence plate.

        Virginia and the word AGINAS

      2. wayne 8

        Re: Arrested for murder of the Swedish journalist

        Ekstrabladet has an anti ad blocker blocker.

        I'll wait for the add on that spoofs the anti ad blocker blocker.

        Seen real live naked women without airbrushing and photoshop.

        1. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken Silver badge

          Re: Arrested for murder of the Swedish journalist

          "Seen real live naked women without airbrushing and photoshop."

          Really? What's it like???

    2. wayne 8

      Re: Arrested for murder of the Swedish journalist

      "She" the plot thickens and pulses in anticipation. He took her for an underwater ride?

  19. TheElder

    crime scene?

    That will almost certainly be involuntary manslaughter. Accidental death of a person where another person had or should have had control of the circumstances.

  20. PhilipN Silver badge

    Another Scando-thriller?

    The Girl with the Nautilus Build Tattoo?

  21. Nolveys Silver badge
    Unhappy

    It's A Shame

    I love when random people build improbable contraptions and do crazy things with them. It's even better when they take the proper care and consideration, huge hats off to Space Commander Musk. However, even those lunatics who strapped silly numbers of helium balloons to lawn chairs, violated restricted airspaces and were arrested put a smile on my face.

    I hope this works out as well as it can for all involved, under the circumstances.

    1. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken Silver badge

      Re: It's A Shame

      Denmark has good form on non-random people building improbable contraptions and taking the proper care and consideration:

      Copenhagen Suborbitals

  22. TheElder

    More on Crime Scene

    In this event and especially since the sub operator claims the woman left the sub earlier then Corpus delicti will certainly apply. They must find an actual body. Without a witness seeing both people on the sub soon before it sank then Innocent until proven guilty applies as usual. Even with a witness it would be circumstantial evidence only. Perhaps she escaped, swam underwater and is hiding? Asking "why would she be hiding" is not valid.

    Perhaps she was eaten by Sharks

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: More on Crime Scene

      That page of lawyer jokes - thanks is not enough !

  23. schafdog

    Now charged

    There is prob. some contradictions in what story Rocket-Madsen is telling vs signals from the journalists mobile, that has lead to the charge.

    They should be in the process of salvaging the uboat.

    People have been convicted for murder in Denmark without ever finding the body.

    1. TheElder

      People have been convicted for murder in Denmark without ever finding the body.

      Sure, it is possible. Circumstantial evidence can be very strong. Witnesses see two people enter a room. One murders the other leaving blood on the floor. Nobody actually sees it happen. Later the body is then secretly removed by the murderer and hidden permanently. The perp has that blood under his fingernails and it matches the blood on the floor. The victims blood is already medically documented. Time of death is when there was no possible chance of anybody else being seen entering the room.

      Who is the killer? Law is the same as programming. It is all about logic.

      1. TheElder

        Re: People have been convicted for murder in Denmark without ever finding the body.

        Another question arises. Who had possession of the mobile?

  24. Barry Rueger Silver badge

    Vs British Subs?

    Lot of smart talk from the Brits who sold used subs to poor old Canada.

    Yeah, we're sure that you didn't know that the things leaked.

    1. wolfetone Silver badge

      Re: Vs British Subs?

      Buyer beware, it's your own silly fault for buying second hand.

      1. samzeman
        Coat

        Re: Vs British Subs?

        Now, I've seen Battleship, and I know that a used vessel is just waiting to be reused and will be in perfect condition for war when aliens inevitably land in the nearby ocean.

  25. Stork Bronze badge

    Madsen is now charged with involuntary manslaughter

    Not a lot of details on Berlingske (b.dk), but he has been charges with killing her "in an unknown way and at an unknown location". Journo comments that it must be the vaguest charge in DK legal history.

    Real pity, he is also the guy behind Copenhagen Suborbitals and must be one of the very few persons who have had his submarine damaged by collision with a motorway bridge. Story here in Danish: https://ing.dk/artikel/en-ubadsbyggers-mareridt-46602

    1. TheElder

      Re: Madsen is now charged with involuntary manslaughter

      Exactly what I expected. The question now is was the journalist taking a known risk? It is like bungee jumping, the risk is inherent even if the bungee breaks. The one main possible problem is not having a signed waiver of liability just as they usually do for downhill skiing. Of course they still must find the body, if one even exists. They must prove she is dead beyond reasonable doubt, a concept used in Denmark.

  26. Stork Bronze badge

    Madsen seems to be quite a "character"

    Bankrupt, thrown out of Copenhagen Suborbitals, made a fuss with the then owners of Nautilus (dispute of ownership, they said "have it, we build another").

    Sounds like someone with lots of ideas and technical skills, some shortage of financial and social abilities. Does it sound familiar?

    1. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken Silver badge

      Re: Madsen seems to be quite a "character"

      Quite. Why he isn't a Silly Valley startup billionaire or VC is beyond me; he seems to have all the quailfications.

  27. DocJames
    Unhappy

    Hmmm

    Given the story of having lost his passenger, possibly permanently, and be going in a different direction to that intended, only to sink the moment he was found (having gone down from the conning tower briefly...) suggests that sadly the body is on the sub, will shortly be recovered, and more oddities of his behaviour will come out.

    It's a bad story, despite having a submarine in it.

    1. samzeman

      Re: Hmmm

      "It's a bad story, despite having a submarine in it."

      Most of my book reviews amount to "It's a good story, despite not having a submarine in it"

  28. TheElder
  29. M7S

    If he is convicted

    And "goes down" (sorry), it would be nice if the sub can be recovered and put to a good use (science, educational tourism etc), particularly as it was crowd funded.

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