back to article Microsoft hits new low: Threatens to axe classic Paint from Windows 10

Satya Nadella had us all fooled but good with his kinder, gentler, people-empowering Microsoft act. But now we can see the company's reverted to type by threatening to kill venerable graphics app Paint after the Windows 10 Fall Creators Update. A new list of “Features that are removed or deprecated in Windows 10 Fall Creators …

  1. Len Goddard

    The end

    There goes the last Microsoft programme (apart from the actual windows OS) that I use. Really useful when you want to crop, resize and change format of an image. Nothing I can't do in the Gimp but simpler and quicker with Paint.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: The end

      Agreed.

      Paint is exactly the kind of graphics app I use because i'm crap at art, but to be able to quickly draw a diagram (as I did last week to explain the difference between parallel and serial battery connections) that was crude but illustrated the point perfectly.

      Try doing that in photoshop.

      Ditto with windows movie maker.

      I bet paint is about 20 meg, FFS MS, just keep it.

      For shits and giggles if *nothing* else.

      1. Jamesit

        Re: The end

        On Win XP it's under 400Kb

        1. bombastic bob Silver badge
          Unhappy

          Re: The end

          "On Win XP it's under 400Kb"

          AND it WORKS BETTER because there's no GOSH DARNED FORNICATING FECAL-FACED DUCK-COITUS PILE OF EXCREMENT RIBBON BAR on it!!!

          I was _VERY_ disappointed with Paint in Win 7. I stopped using it.

          Watch Micro-shaft make it a UWP "the Store" "CRapp" and include ADS in it.

          1. werdsmith Silver badge

            Re: The end

            Alt-Printscreen

            Start-Run MSPAINT

            CTRL-V

            Crop Marquee Select Crop

            CTRL-A CTRL-C

            Swtich to email

            CTRL - V

            Done.

            1. nuked

              Re: The end

              Windows Key

              "snip" <Enter>

              Drag box

              Copy -> Paste

              Easier.

              1. Lusty Silver badge
                Pint

                Re: The end

                "Windows Key

                "snip" <Enter>

                Drag box

                Copy -> Paste

                Easier."

                Actually snip always puts the picture in your clipboard anyway so no need to copy before pasting. You're much more correct than the other guys though, what a faff his life is!

              2. Fuzz

                Re: The end

                snipping tool is what you need for taking screenshots. It's there on all supported versions of windows. It has built in tools for drawing on the screenshots. The newest versions added delayed activation so you can capture tooltips or menus in your screenshots, and lasso selection for ... not sure I've never wanted a badly hand drawn circular snapshot.

                1. veti Silver badge

                  @Fuzz Re: The end

                  Actually, the snipping tool isn't "there on all supported versions". It's in Windows 7-10, sure, but not in Windows Server versions.

                  What I use for taking screenshots is Greenshot. (getgreenshot.org), which beats crap out of the Snipping Tool anyway - the editing tools are both easier to use and more powerful.

                  But the point is, neither of these things is guaranteed to be available on every machine. Paint - currently - is.

              3. veti Silver badge

                Re: The end

                Windows Key

                "snip" <Enter>

                Have a downvote. Your instructions not only didn't work, they seem to have caused my left monitor to die. Thanks a bunch.

            2. This post has been deleted by its author

              1. Jason 24

                Re: The end

                Sometimes adding a little red circle of arrow to highlight a point helps. And if you have 3 screens you should ALWAYS crop what you are sending, don't want customers to see what you have in your browser tabs...., especially on those "home working" days....

                1. Simon Harris Silver badge

                  Re: The end

                  Not just cropping the edges, but often I need to paint out personal information from inside the image too - Paint is ideal for quickly doing that when I don't have the ages to spare that it takes for Gimp to start up.

                  1. Lusty Silver badge

                    Re: The end

                    "but often I need to paint out personal information from inside the image too "

                    Use snip then, it has tools specifically for this scenario. In fact, I've not seen a single example in this thread where functionality isn't already better elsewhere. Perhaps Microsoft need to run an educational campagne. Maybe this is that campagne...

                    1. Simon Harris Silver badge

                      Re: The end

                      Snip: scribble-scribble-scribble to delete something untidily.

                      MSPaint: 'select', drag cursor, delete - deleted with a nice tidy rectangle.

                    2. Kubla Cant Silver badge

                      Re: The end

                      Perhaps Microsoft need to run an educational campagne. Maybe this is that campagne...

                      What's a "campagne"? Is it a fizzy wine? A stretch of countryside? A bedspread?

                      Perhaps Microsoft could enlighten us as part of an educational campaign.

                      1. kend1
                        Pint

                        Re: The end

                        Re: Kubla Cant

                        In less time than it took you to enter your ridicule, you could have Google the answer.

                        French: campagne English: campaign

                        cam·paign kam'pan/ noun

                        noun: campaign; plural noun: campaigns

                        1. a series of military operations intended to achieve a particular objective, confined to a particular area, or involving a specified type of fighting.

                        Au Revoir

                      2. Anonymous Coward
                        Anonymous Coward

                        Re: The end

                        What's a "campagne"? Is it a fizzy wine? A stretch of countryside? A bedspread?

                        As far as I can tell it's an escaped Dutchism :).

                      3. Anonymous Coward
                        Anonymous Coward

                        Re: The end

                        @Kubla C*nt I think it means someone who's a dick taking the mickey out of people on the Internet for their weaknesses such as dyslexia in order to make themselves feel better about being a worthless tossbag.

              2. werdsmith Silver badge

                Re: The end

                We don't need to be wasting storage and bandwidth with unnecessary content.

            3. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: The end

              Alt-Printscreen

              Start-Run MSPAINT (etc

              That was about the first thing I liked about macOS: no need to have a paint program in between.

              That said, in the days I still used Windows I used the fact that the system had to be polluted with .NET anyway to my advantage and installed paint.net - MUCH better.

              But yes, there goes another one. First EDLIN, now this..

              :)

            4. Rob Gr

              Re: The end

              1. Click in Search box

              2. Type Sn..

              3. Select "Snipping Tool"

              4. Click New

              5. Marquee select part of screen of interest.

              6. Switch to email

              7. Ctrl+V

              Done

              1. Danny 14 Silver badge

                Re: The end

                Paint is great for putting red circles around whatever you need to highlight though, not just cropping. It was guaranteed to be on all machines too.

                Sure paint.net is a good tool but when you are uaing machines that are locked down and cant install 3rd party software then paint will do.

                Stupid MS

                1. Sampler

                  Re: The end

                  "not in active development anymore" - you mean it has been in active development for the past however many years since Windows 7 and not changing one iota - wow, wish I was on that team

              2. Freddellmeister

                Re: The end

                Snipping tool is great, but cant capture most dialog windows, which PrtScn nails perfectly.

            5. vistisen

              Re: The end

              start -run snip

              CTRL-N

              choose area

              CTRL-C

              switch to mail

              CTRL-V

              Done quicker

            6. regregular

              Re: The end

              Using Snipping Tool saves a few steps out of this even.

              Yet seeing paint go sucks.

            7. RickDangerous

              Re: The end

              Or use Snipping Tool?

          2. TonyJ Silver badge

            Re: The end

            "...AND it WORKS BETTER because there's no GOSH DARNED FORNICATING FECAL-FACED DUCK-COITUS PILE OF EXCREMENT RIBBON BAR on it!!!.."

            You know that LibreOffice 5.3 has the option of a Ribbon Bar, don't you??

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: The end

              You know that LibreOffice 5.3 has the option of a Ribbon Bar, don't you??

              Thankfully well hidden :).

              I can't believe anyone spent time creating that, but vive la differance, I guess.

              1. TonyJ Silver badge

                Re: The end

                "...I can't believe anyone spent time creating that, but vive la differance, I guess..."

                I can. If you take users of MS Office now - ones that have used it for the last decade (or longer in many cases) and plump any version prior to 2007 in front of them and they would ask where anything was.

                I've tried it.

                Other comments along the lines of being ugly are also mentioned.

                If you want LibreOffice to really be taken up then it has to be compatible with* and even mirror newer versions of MS Office.

                *Yeah I know...even MS can't guarantee compatibility at times.

            2. TonyJ Silver badge

              Re: The end

              Haha some of you need lives or at the very least to chill out more.

              Downvotes for point out a fact.

              Hilarious.

            3. Someone Else Silver badge
              Flame

              @TonyJ -- Re: The end

              You know that LibreOffice 5.3 has the option of a Ribbon Bar, don't you??

              And you know that it's optional, don't you??

              1. TonyJ Silver badge

                Re: @TonyJ -- The end

                You know that LibreOffice 5.3 has the option of a Ribbon Bar, don't you??

                "...And you know that it's optional, don't you??.."

                Let me add emphasis seeing as you clearly missed the word OPTION.

      2. Adam 1 Silver badge

        Re: The end

        > For shits and giggles if *nothing* else.

        +1

        Sure you can use snipping tool for screenshots. Gimp is great but hardly opens quickly and isn't necessarily on every machine you find yourself in front of. Sure Irfanview is the Notepad++ of graphics tools, but seriously, why not keep it around paint? I don't think anyone wants new features in it. Just let it live out it's days.

        Next they'll be pulling calc.exe

        1. Wila

          Re: The end

          They already pulled calc.exe.

          What you get now on trying to run that is the shitty UWP alternative for calc.

      3. Simon Harris Silver badge

        Re: The end

        "20 meg"

        Bombastic Bob has me beat with the XP size, but on my Windows 7 PC the executable comes it at 6676480 bytes - that's smaller than a lot of the pictures I've put through it.

      4. Christian Berger Silver badge

        Re: The end

        Actually I've just looked it up, and for some reason I cannot fathom it's around 6.5 Megabytes of code!

        I mean, yes, it's got some new feature that Paint on real Windows (i.e. Windows 3.x) didn't have, but I doubt the PNG and JPEG code takes up 6.4 Megabytes.

        Edit: That's on Windows 7.

        1. Bronek Kozicki Silver badge

          Re: The end

          I suspect 6MB is static linking to relatively recent MFC, while retaining all the symbols required to make the ribbon work. Not surprised Microsoft does not like MFC and would like to stop supporting their own apps which make use of it.

          1. bombastic bob Silver badge
            Unhappy

            Re: The end

            "I suspect 6MB is static linking to relatively recent MFC, while retaining all the symbols required to make the ribbon work."

            I've noticed that MFC for DevStudio 2010 is WAY PIGGY compared to what it was for DevStudio '98 and I have yet to figure out why, or what benefits you actually get. That's with all of the ".Not" crap NOT linked up, and all of that. I think Micro-shaft intentionally polluted it with worthless GARBAGE and as such, it's becoming excess poundage to lug around.

          2. Def Silver badge

            Re: The end

            I suspect 6MB is static linking to relatively recent MFC...

            Could be that, but part of it too will be down to the Visual Studio linker padding executables out quite a bit to optimise load times. It's been doing this since the earliest .net versions.

            The size of Paint.exe in Windows 10 is 6,726,656 bytes, but only uses 3,579,904 bytes of disk space, which in interesting because none of the containing folders (Windows and System32) have compression enabled according to Windows Explorer. Clearly there's something going on here behind the scenes.

      5. TVU Silver badge

        Re: The end

        "Paint is exactly the kind of graphics app I use because i'm crap at art, but to be able to quickly draw a diagram (as I did last week to explain the difference between parallel and serial battery connections) that was crude but illustrated the point perfectly.

        Try doing that in photoshop.

        Ditto with windows movie maker.

        I bet paint is about 20 meg, FFS MS, just keep it."

        ^ Absolutely this. It's a straightforward and easy to use image editor and this decision is bonkers. The email addresses for the MS top dogs (see CEO Email) are out there so let them know what you think before it's too late.

        1. Wayland Bronze badge

          Re: The end

          "^ Absolutely this. It's a straightforward and easy to use image editor and this decision is bonkers."

          You have an implicit assumption. That because Paint is of benefit to people like us who treat it like part of the operating system for all sorts of useful things that this is something Microsoft would want.

          1. So what are Microsoft getting out of this by indicating that they are removing it?

          2. Do they in fact want to remove it or just create a reaction?

          3. By removing a tool we use Microsoft make old time users less effective, is this what they want?

          If you look at what Microsoft and Apple are doing with computers it's as if they want to either cripple the machines or cripple the people who have got fairly good at using them. These wounds won't affect people who are totally clueless nor people who are super smart who can do anything and everything on a computer. It just affects normal people with hard won computer competency.

      6. soulrideruk Bronze badge

        Re: The end

        I've been using paint.NET for so long now I forgot it wasn't the actual paint program....

      7. My Alter Ego

        Re: The end

        I'm crap at art too, so this video of somebody using MS paint to draw the Mona Lisa was even more impressive...

        Mona Lisa drawn in MS Paint

      8. 404 Silver badge

        Re: The end

        FYI: mspaint.exe is 6.16MB on Windows 8.1

      9. Gritzwally Philbin

        Re: The end

        Is there not a way to grab the program itself and re-install it post-update?

        Deprecated doesn't mean dead.. QuickTime7.6.6 has been deprecated since Snow Leopard in favor of QuickTimeX and I use the former *to this day* with the Perian codec pack installed, even under the High Sierra beta - it's my go to for anything not h265.

    2. Thought About IT

      Re: The end

      No need to panic just yet. My MS Surface 4 still hasn't been automatically updated with the last Creators Update, so I don't expect to get the Fall update any time soon.

      1. joed Silver badge

        Re: The end

        No reason to panic at all. Just copy good old mspaint.exe, back it up to extra safe (encrypt the file in case MS liked to pull fast one) and keep using it. It does not depend on any external files (it works by itself in WinPE). Besides this there's already Internet community repackaging Windows accessories for user not keen on using blocky substitutes.

        One should not cave in to MS force feeding us diet of crApps.

    3. Paul

      Re: The end

      I'd suggest the rather excellent irfanview instead, it's very good at all the basics like cropping, rotating (does lossless jpeg rotate).

      One feature I particularly like is being able to print image scaled to exact position and size on the paper.

      1. Dave 126 Silver badge

        Re: The end

        Picasa is also very fast to use for cropping, straightening and other quick tweaks. There's no need to go through a Save As dialogue either, as changes are not applied to the original file (but will be to the exported or emailed output).

        1. katrinab Silver badge

          Re: The end

          However Picasa has also been retired

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: The end

            However Picasa has also been retired

            That suggests Google now has enough computing power of its own, so they no longer need to outsource the facial recognition :)

            1. Patched Out

              Re: The end

              The last version of Picasa is still available on FileHippo. If you still use Picasa (as I do), I suggest you download the install file for safe keeping.

      2. Triggerfish

        Re: The end

        I'll also agree irfanview, for a free little program it's surprisingly handy and simple, can resize batches etc, default install program and pic viewer on my pc's.

      3. DropBear Silver badge
        Megaphone

        Re: The end

        To all Irfanview fans: please note it's NOT freeware: you may not use it at your job (unless you bought it), whereas you could use MSPaint anywhere.

      4. ferabreu

        Re: The end

        One cannot draw on IrfanView.

        1. Patched Out

          Re: The end

          "One cannot draw on IrfanView."

          Yes one can. Edit > Show Paint Dialog (or hit F12). You're welcome.

      5. Stub Mandrel

        Re: The end

        Irfan View has its uses, but it's infuriating habit of loading images at half resolution (because it thinks everyone is still struggling with 512kb of RAM) by default has caused me so much grief....

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: The end

          "loading images at half resolution"

          From testing, IfranView load image based on screen width by default, which is good if you need a quick good preview for large size image.

          If you want full resolution, go to View > Original Size (Ctrl + H) which gives you the full resolution. In our case, the image is way too big for the screen.

    4. macjules Silver badge

      Re: The end

      Never mind, there's still minesweeper.

      1. Michael Habel Silver badge

        Re: The end

        Don't remind them!

    5. LDS Silver badge

      Re: The end

      Paint is useful because you know it is installed in each and every Windows machine, and if you need to take a screenshot and then save it - maybe cropping out useless parts, and saving it in a decent format, you know you have it available and you don't need to look for and maybe download - if you can - another simple graphic applications.

      Although I know most users prefer to paste it into Word and Excel and send you a document with a single image within....

      1. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken Silver badge

        Re: The end

        "Although I know most users prefer to paste it into Word and Excel and send you a document with a single image within...."

        xkcd - Workaround

      2. Sloppy Crapmonster

        Re: The end

        I too liked it for manipulating screenshots, until I discovered Snipping Tool buried in the start menu. Why hadn't I run across this before?

        1. Uffe Seerup

          Re: The end

          > I too liked it for manipulating screenshots, until I discovered Snipping Tool buried in the start menu. Why hadn't I run across this before?

          Have you ever tried Windows-R, type "psr", Enter?

          PSR = Problem Steps Recorder. But what it really does is to document a series of user interface steps with multiple screenshots, showing mouse and documenting what was clicked.

    6. GruntyMcPugh Silver badge

      Re: The end

      Yep, agree 100%. We try to be good tecchies and document everything, and MSpaint is the go to app for tweaking screenshots. I think MS sometimes forget the decades of muscle memory some of us tecchies have, many things are just instinct now (and this is why Windows 8 jarred so much, instead of just doing stuff, we had to re-explore the OS, which just made every task take longer).

    7. James 29

      Re: The end

      I can recommend Paint.net for a simple to use, free and reasonably powerful editor without resorting to Gimp or PS

      1. werdsmith Silver badge

        Re: The end

        Alternatives will only replace it if they are always there when you need them.

        For instance if my mother calls me with a problem on her laptop and I want to talk her through sending a screenshot. MSPaint will be there.

        1. AndrueC Silver badge
          Happy

          Re: The end

          Alternatives will only replace it if they are always there when you need them.

          Like Edlin. Many, many moons ago I used to rely on that when offering technical support. It was safer and simpler to guide someone over the phone using Edlin (less chance of random edits or uncertainty over where the cursor was). Or you could just create a script and have them execute it by redirecting stdin.

          And it's why - despite shifting to Windows a couple of decades ago - I still have a fondness for VI. I don't even use the cursor keys with it because when I first used Unix it was on dumb terminals (Wyse-60 mainly) and you couldn't be sure that the 'clever' keys were correctly mapped. I could even use the Ex mode back in the day but concede that most of that is lost from memory now.

          I have taken stick from modern IT guys for not using the cursor keys with VI but got my own back just under a year ago. A system got damaged and lost its advanced key mappings. So I got called to help sort it out because I could still navigate and edit :)

          The moral of the story: Add things. Don't take them away ;)

          1. Wensleydale Cheese Silver badge

            Re: The end

            "I have taken stick from modern IT guys for not using the cursor keys with VI but got my own back just under a year ago. A system got damaged and lost its advanced key mappings."

            This.

            I had one of these moments a few months ago. I think the remote session was expecting a Sun keyboard, which I don't have.

            It was ages since I had used the vi move-by-character keys, but knowing they are there, all I needed to remember was 'hjkl' and 5 minutes later I was rattling away as if I used it every day.

            1. Missing Semicolon Silver badge
              Alien

              Re: The end

              Ha! Try typing a '#' character into a file, when remoted from a UK PC to a US PC, interacting with a VMWare console!

              No solution to that one :-)

              1. MrAverage

                Re: The end

                @Missing Semicolon

                so Alt-35 on Numeric Keypad fails then?

      2. picturethis
        Unhappy

        Re: The end

        I just recently started to use Paint.NET (4.0.16 IIRC) and a couple of words of caution:

        If using on a Win7 32-bit machine ( 4GB w/ with no other apps running),

        - Open 60MB file,

        - Copy selection,

        - Paste selection into new file.

        - Close 60 MB file,

        - Attempt to open different 60 MB file ---> Out of memory (WTF)

        - Restart Paint.NET

        Silly me, and here I thought .NET apps didn't have to worry about managing memory..

        This app has been under development for several years (maybe close to a decade) and I can't be the first one to run this use case scenario..

        I guess forcing everyone to move to 64-bit windows is an easy way to hide memory problems.

        1. Adam 1 Silver badge

          Re: The end

          > Silly me, and here I thought .NET apps didn't have to worry about managing memory..

          I've inherited a lot of code where the author assumed that to be true. The .net GC is very good, but it isn't magical. The number of times I have seen event handlers hooked up then never unsubscribed, which prevents your views being released for garbage collection. Argh. Those and timers. But that's ok because IIS can recycle the worker process once it gets too high - something they honestly thought was a good solution.

    8. phuzz Silver badge
      Headmaster

      Re: The end

      There seems to be two kinds of IT types.

      There are those, that when presented with a new UI, will learn how to use it, and there are those that will complain for evermore because it's not identical to the UI they first learnt.

      1. Terry 6 Silver badge

        Re: The end

        @phuzz

        No, there are those who jump on any passing bandwagon and those who don't want things fixing that aren't broken. (Let alone Microsoft's habit of replacing things that aren't broken with things that are!)

    9. Daniel von Asmuth Bronze badge

      Re: The end

      Is 'clock' still in? How about edlin and edit?

    10. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: The end

      Jim'll Paint It

    11. Wayland Bronze badge

      Re: The end

      In Linux Mint I wanted to take a screen shot and paste part of it into an email. I struggled a bit remembering that in Windows I'd use Paint to quickly modify the image.

      So that's the last advantage Windows had over Linux.

      1. PaulFrederick

        Re: The end

        The core X Window screen capture program is xwd (X Window Dump). Though some Desktop Environments offer better apps. In my DE for instance I simply have to hit the Print Screen key to get a screen capture. Which for me is an improvement over typing the command. Anyhow the rabbit hole that is X runs deep. Very few know it today.

    12. TheElder

      Re: The end

      Download PaintShop Pro version 7 somewhere. It should be free. I helped to develop versions 7, 8 and 9. 8 has multiple bugs and 9 also has some but 7 is rock solid. Once Corel took over it all sucks. PSP 7 does not require any type of registration. It will ask but you may say no. Corel did not pay for version 7 and JASC retired. (Just Another Software Company)

      I still use PSP 7 since it is super easy, quick and simple on the surface. But a bit deeper it can do many very nice things. I use 9 sometimes since it runs Python.

  2. Alumoi

    Windows 10 FAIL Creators Update

    How many time do I have to tell you? It's FAIL not FALL. Lear to spell!

    1. Thought About IT

      Re: Windows 10 FAIL Creators Update

      Ahem: learn to spell!

      1. EyePeaSea
        Happy

        Re: Windows 10 FAIL Creators Update

        >> Ahem: learn to spell!

        Quick - check out this page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony

        :-)

      2. Avatar of They Silver badge
        Happy

        Re: Windows 10 FAIL Creators Update

        I thought that was the joke? No?

      3. veti Silver badge

        Re: Windows 10 FAIL Creators Update

        I thought it was "Lean to spill!"

    2. brotherelf
      Coat

      Re: Windows 10 FAIL Creators Update

      Or, for the eastpondians, "A tomb creator's update"?

  3. JetSetJim Silver badge

    Paint.net

    Paint is good for cropping, but so is paint.net and it does other stuff reasonably well (for someone as untalented as I)

    1. Danny 14 Silver badge

      Re: Paint.net

      But you rely on paint.net being installed. I agree that for YOUR machine it is great. But when you go to doris in accounts you can screenshot, paste into paint, red circle the button she needs to click, save on desktop. Done!

  4. Marco van de Voort

    Now just notepad, and we can write off builtin apps completely.

    Now just notepad, and we can write off builtin apps completely.

    1. Flocke Kroes Silver badge

      Re: Now just notepad, and we can write off builtin apps completely.

      Did that when they removed minesweeper.

    2. OldCrow

      Re: Now just notepad, and we can write off builtin apps completely.

      And with the new Windows 10-S, you can't just install Paint.net or Notepad++: You have to get everything from the app store.

      Now for just $0.99 each, with MS getting 50% of every sale. Aren't monopolies wonderful?

      1. 45RPM Silver badge

        Re: Now just notepad, and we can write off builtin apps completely.

        @OldCrow

        In fairness, I don’t think that Windows can be described as a monopoly any more, or Microsoft’s practices as monopolistic. You have a choice, in a way that there hasn’t been a choice since the halcyon days of the 1980s. You can vote with your feet and buy a Chromebook. You can install Linux (or, if you must have something Windowsy, ReactOS). You can have a Mac - or eschew desktop OSs altogether and buy a tablet with iOS or Android.

        When Windows was installed on more than 99% of computers then yes, it was a monopoly. But now, as its market share has collapsed below 20% when all personal computing devices are taken into account, no. I don’t think you can reasonably call it a monopoly.

        As for MS Paint, it was originally released with Windows 1 in 1985 as a ‘competitor' to MacPaint. Apple quietly put a bullet into MacPaint in 1989 - its useful life long outlived as more capable alternatives became available. The world is awash with simple, capable, paint programs - the only surprise is that Microsoft has taken this long to follow Apple’s example.

        1. bombastic bob Silver badge
          Mushroom

          Re: Now just notepad, and we can write off builtin apps completely.

          "I don’t think that Windows can be described as a monopoly any more, or Microsoft’s practices as monopolistic."

          that's assuming they're not still SQUEEZING THE HARDWARE VENDORS to FORCE them to sell everything with a windows license, regardless, then force it to be WIn-10-nic, etc. etc. etc.

          Yeah, NOT monopolistic practices. On WHAT PLANET??

          1. 45RPM Silver badge

            Re: Now just notepad, and we can write off builtin apps completely.

            @bombastic bob

            Not being a hardware vendor, perhaps I have an overly simplistic view of the world. But, the way I see it (which I concede may be based on false assumptions and a whole stack of optimism), the hardware vendors don’t need to play along with Microsoft. A vendor could conceivably say ‘actually, we’re not going to make any Windows computers - we’ll supply our machines pre-installed with Linux or ChromeOS’. Of course, if a buyer wants Windows then they can still buy, at full cost, a boxed copy of Windows - but otherwise they can save a bob or two and have an OS which may be just as functional for what they need to do.

            In fact, this is pretty much exactly what Eight Virtues, System76 and ZaReason do. I imagine that this model will become more prevalent in the future, especially now that Linux has proven itself on the desktop.

            Actually, now I come to think of it, this is also exactly what Apple does, Raspberry Pi (the latest being perfectly capable machines for what most people need to do), BeagleBone, Udoo, Parallela and PixiePro do too. In fact, I guess that you could add to that all the members of the Open Source Hardware Association.

            1. bombastic bob Silver badge
              Megaphone

              Re: Now just notepad, and we can write off builtin apps completely.

              the fact that there are SOME hardware makers shipping with Linux isn't really the point. It's the monpolistic "deals" that Micro-shaft makes in order to strong-arm the largest PC vendors into doing what they want, i.e. NOT selling anything without a Micro-shaft Win-10-nic license.

              The few hardware vendors who don't do that don't sell ANY machines pre-loaded with Windows. It would be too expensive if they did. It's sorta like going into a grocery store, and seeing the price as DOUBLE what the 'discount' price is, if yo have a store card. which is free, of course, but it tracks what you do. What do most people do? Get the card and use it. And so Micro-shaft does a "discount deal" but ONLY if they sell a copy of windows with EVERY! SINGLE! MACHINE! they sell. The windows computers are cheaper, of course, but the Linux ones end up being more expensive because of that. And so on.

              Time for some TRUST BUSTING and anti-MONOPOLY actions. You can't just have SOME vendors not playing Micro-shaft's game. It has to become ILLEGAL for them to do it at ALL.

              1. 45RPM Silver badge

                Re: Now just notepad, and we can write off builtin apps completely.

                @bombastic bob

                Cheaper than what? Cheaper than a Chromebook? Cheaper than a Raspberry Pi?

                The thing is that Microsoft’s tactics only work if there’s an advantage to the computer manufacturer playing along. In the past there was an almost unassailable advantage - favourable pricing on Windows. Currently there may well still be an advantage - but that advantage is dwindling. Which brings me to:

                Time for some TRUST BUSTING and anti-MONOPOLY actions. You can't just have SOME vendors not playing Micro-shaft's game. It has to become ILLEGAL for them to do it at ALL.

                I disagree - I don’t think that the law is necessary here (well, except for lawyers keen on earning another fat fee). I think that market forces will do this - the tide is turning.

                It’s fashionable to hate Microsoft, just as it’s fashionable to hate Apple (Google, Facebook, Amazon - insert whipping boy of choice here). The truth is that they all have their advantages and disadvantages. Personally, I quite like Satya Nadella’s vision for Microsoft - I find it infinitely more preferable to the cock up that Ballmer was making of it. Especially now that Linux is being brought into the fold, and I can imagine the day when Windows is a shell on top of Linux. I even like Windows 10. But I’m not a huge fan of masses of bundled software - it leads to laziness and lowest common denominator applications. After all, why install a competitor to MS Paint - even a better one - if MS Paint is bundled? Similarly, I know people who use Notepad even though Notepad++ is infinitely better (and still free).

                I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again. Pick the one that you like best and then enjoy it. No need to get religious about it, or worry about what might or might not be wrong over the fence. These things all seem to sort themselves out over time.

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: Now just notepad, and we can write off builtin apps completely.

                  Personally, I quite like Satya Nadella’s vision for Microsoft - I find it infinitely more preferable to the cock up that Ballmer was making of it. Especially now that Linux is being brought into the fold, and I can imagine the day when Windows is a shell on top of Linux.

                  I'm afraid I'm not buying that one. I've "experienced" Microsoft from when it started to flog MS-DOS on 5¼" floppies, and over that time I have seen enough behaviour to prevent me extending ANY trust to their activities, also because I know from experience how static corporate culture is.

                  It will take a lot longer to convince me that this isn't yet another "extend, embrace, extinguish" process being played out (the very fact that they thought up that phrase gives you an idea of mindset).

                  I prefer to run Linux without Microsoft's "help" (and license fees), thanks.

              2. Sandtitz Silver badge
                FAIL

                Re: Now just notepad, and we can write off builtin apps completely.

                "It's the monpolistic "deals" that Micro-shaft makes in order to strong-arm the largest PC vendors into doing what they want, i.e. NOT selling anything without a Micro-shaft Win-10-nic license."

                Your whole premise is wrong. At least Dell and HP sell some laptops with FreeDOS, and Dell also had (has?) Ubuntu preinstall option.

                1. Sandtitz Silver badge
                  WTF?

                  Re: Now just notepad, and we can write off builtin apps completely. @me

                  "At least Dell and HP sell some laptops with FreeDOS, and Dell also had (has?) Ubuntu preinstall option."

                  4 thumbs down already, but no-one has the balls to tell why...

                  I was just stating a fact - you can buy a Dell or HP (and others) without the MS tax, so Mr Bombastic's 'NOT selling anything without a Micro-shaft Win-10-nic license' is obviously just FUD.

                  1. 45RPM Silver badge

                    Re: Now just notepad, and we can write off builtin apps completely. @me

                    @Sandtitz

                    Here. Have an upvote from me. I wouldn't worry about all the down votes though (look at the reaction to my comments on this thread - very negative, and I can't understand why either (although, since there's no explanation either, I don't care too much))

                    I can think of some very good reasons to abandon Paint (and any other software extraneous to the OS), not least for reasons of security and developer time required to maintain the software. But I suspect that many of the commentards downvoting you are newbies or have only a passing familiarity with IT (although, doubtless, they'd claim great expertise). The Register used to attract Programmers, Sand Benders, Ops and Sys Admins. Now there also seem to be noobs and gamerz here for the lulz (whatever that means).

                    Like Viz, the Register just isn't as good as it used to be! Won't stop you coming though, will it? Me neither.

                    1. TonyJ Silver badge

                      Re: Now just notepad, and we can write off builtin apps completely. @me

                      Let it go, 45RPM - these fora do seem to attract Mr/Miss/<insert your own title> Angry.

                      I got downvoted for pointing out that LIbreOffice now includes the option to have a ribbon bar.

                      I can only assume that, despite the fact I was simply pointing out an actual, factual, truth, that the ones who are still (ten years+) down the line foaming at the mouth of the temerity of MS to have added it with the release of Office 2007 - usually the same ones espousing the virtues of choice - hadn't noticed and will now have to turn that anger onto LibreOffice.

                      Me, personally, could see it actually helping the adoption of LibreOffice as I said earlier.

                      Anyway...let 'em vent and downvote mate. Life's too short.

                      1. Terry 6 Silver badge

                        Re: Now just notepad, and we can write off builtin apps completely. @me

                        @TonyJ I have no problem with differing opinions. By and large I've always been pretty pro Microsoft, certainly pre Win 8. I use a Winphone and wouldn't want anything from Google or Apple. But your comment about Libre Office's option for a Ribbon is 180 degrees away from the point you try to make. i.e. Libre Office has an option. whereas the point that sets so many here's teeth gnashing ( ignoring for the moment the ones who have to be acknowledged never have anything good to say about MS on principle) is that removal of options. That MS makes a decision to deprecate, and worryingly may kill, a simple and useful tool - Paint. That it changes or removes practical functionality to replace it with stuff that no one much wants. That where a function, like the Start Menu is almost good enough it chooses to remove it, instead of improving it ( or at least leaving it alone) and when forced to replace it, chooses to make it more unwieldy and less user friendly than it was before. And it is a mess. Because programmes can install an entire folder in an alphabetic location but a casual user would have no idea how to move the item to where they want ot expect to find it - and even the expert user can't move, let alone hide or uninstall stuff that Microsoft wants to impose. As to that Ribbon. The point of contention for the Ribbon, like the Start Menu, is that it is cluttered and messy to navigate, but the functionality that allowed users to simplify it easily was taken away from something that isn't fundamentally all that different from what went before. The real difference now is that menu items can't be hidden individually. The nearest you can come to it would be to create manually, item by item, a copy of a given menu that contains just the bits you want ( a long and tedious process) and then hide the original one in its entirety. I am never ever going to use INSERT - Links -Cross Reference. Never. Not ever. Under any circumstances. But it can not be taken away. It has to be there, like so many other items I'll never use, that just add clutter.

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Now just notepad, and we can write off builtin apps completely.

            @bombastic bob, speaking of hardware, you really need to check out your keyboard. It seems to have a randomly activating caps lock or shift key.

            Maybe too much spittle causing shorts?

            1. bombastic bob Silver badge
              Megaphone

              Re: Now just notepad, and we can write off builtin apps completely.

              " It seems to have a randomly activating caps lock or shift key."

              CAPITALIZATION and *PUNCTUATION* for! emphasis! [el reg does this a lot]

              NOT a keyboard error.

              ^^ emphasize "not" when reading

              and I _REFUSE_ to change.

              1. IsJustabloke Silver badge
                Stop

                Re: Now just notepad, and we can write off builtin apps completely.

                "and I _REFUSE_ to change."

                How about you just take a day off and give the rest of us a break?

              2. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: Now just notepad, and we can write off builtin apps completely.

                and I _REFUSE_ to change.

                I'd recommend you grow a sense of humour, though.

                You're lucky you're too easy a target for me - no challenge whatsoever (evil grin).

        2. OldCrow

          Re: Now just notepad, and we can write off builtin apps completely.

          @45RPM

          True, that part may have been uncalled for. As they are, in theory at least, no longer a monopoly.

          Point still stands, in that with 10-S they'll start charging for what used to be the "Accessories" menu.

          If submitting your software to the store is no longer free (at some point in the future, if it's still free), then there will be no free replacements either.

          "Mom & Pop" will never have the know-how to install Linux. Most of today's youths don't have it either, since it's not necessary for survival in the short-term.

          1. 45RPM Silver badge

            Re: Now just notepad, and we can write off builtin apps completely.

            @OldCrow

            I know. I know. I’m an eternal optimist. But I can't imagine a day when there’ll be no free software on the Windows Store. In fact, other than the registration fee, I can’t imagine a day when Microsoft will charge per app submission (perhaps I’m not very imaginative). At a time when ChromeOS (and its successors) are breathing down Microsoft’s neck in the low cost space, and Apple are squeezing them at the high end, I can’t see Microsoft doing anything which might lessen Windows’ desirability.

            As to “Mom & Pop”, I agree that they probably don’t have the know how to install Linux. But there are businesses which will happily supply a pre-built Linux machine (and, once installed, it’s perfectly easy to use - my mum, a confirmed technophobe, happily uses her Linux laptop without even knowing that it’s Linux - I built it, she uses it. End of.), and it’s just as easy as buying a Windows machine to buy a Mac or ChromeBook - you don’t even have to go to a specialist store, John Lewis will sell you one!

        3. TVU Silver badge

          Re: Now just notepad, and we can write off builtin apps completely.

          "(or, if you must have something Windowsy, ReactOS)"

          I think not since ReactOS is still on a par with Windows 10 itself in terms of stability. If you want something stable that gives you a Windows feeling and that also has a load of free apps, go with Linux Mint Mate with the Redmond theme.

        4. Adam 52 Silver badge

          Re: Now just notepad, and we can write off builtin apps completely.

          "In fairness, I don’t think that Windows can be described as a monopoly any more, or Microsoft’s practices as monopolistic. You have a choice, in a way that there hasn’t been a choice since the halcyon days of the 1980s"

          I made my choice. I wanted Windows 7, so I bought a Windows 7 laptop complete with paint and Photoshop.

          Against my wishes and without consent MS have removed Windows 7 and, bit by bit, are removing the software packages I want to use, including the old version of Photoshop that I'm licenced for.

          1. 45RPM Silver badge

            Re: Now just notepad, and we can write off builtin apps completely.

            @Adam 52

            I'm not saying that they always behave well, or do the right thing (although, in my experience, they can generally be trusted) - just that they aren't a monopoly any more.

            As you say, you had a choice - and you made it. While it lasted, at least, I hope that it was the right one for you. Of course, you could have stuck with Windows 7 - and, presumably, a still working copy of Photoshop.

            You could also have chosen to buy a Mac (with Photoshop) or Linux (with something else). So badly behaved, perhaps, but not a monopoly.

      2. veti Silver badge

        Re: Now just notepad, and we can write off builtin apps completely.

        When Windows 10-S becomes the only supported version, you will have a talking point. But as long as it's just an option, and not even a default option at that, I don't really see the objection.

  5. Richard 12 Silver badge

    Initially surprised to see TCP Offload going

    Until discovering that (almost) nobody ever actually implemented it.

    Rather like OpenGL "Select" mode I guess. Nobody did it properly and it was completely broken in recent implementations.

    Though I do seem to recall some talk about ASICs and FPGAs to do network stack DMA, which implies it may not be as dead as it looks.

    1. OldCrow

      Re: Initially surprised to see TCP Offload going

      Was mainly used with those overpriced "Network Accelerator, for maximum online gaming experience" -type cards. They did work as advertised, mind you.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    What are they thinking?

    Has Nadella never heard of Jim'll Paint It????

    Seriously, I stopped caring about Microsoft and windows a long time ago now, they can carry on their express path into insignificance...

  7. Paul

    You need a tool like ms paint so that you can take s screen shot when there's an error, and redact areas of the screen, before submitting bug reports.

    1. hplasm Silver badge
      Holmes

      Aha...

      "You need a tool like ms paint so that you can take s screen shot when there's an error, and redact areas of the screen, before submitting bug reports."

      Exactly....

      1. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

        Re: Bug Reports?

        Isn't that the stuff that goes straight into the recycler on Planet MS (aka the Redmond Enclave of Deluded Reality)

    2. Shadow Systems Silver badge

      At Paul, re: Paint for screen dumps.

      Thank you. I was just about to post this very concept but you beat me to it. Enjoy a pint.

      While I'm blind & can't see the screen dump to edit it, I can hot key Copy&Paste the screen dump into Paint, Save As, give it a file name, & email the resulting file in less time than it would take to even LAUNCH something "better" (a more powerful graphics editing program).

      Simple, fast, & easy to use. When all you need is the basics, it makes no fekkin sense to have to bring up something that's so overpowered it's like firing up the Ferrari to drive the three blocks to the corner market for a loaf of bread.

      *Shaking head in disgust*

      I'm glad I didn't bother to "upgrade" to Win10, I'd be bloody well pissed at all the functionality MS has removed in their headlong sprint to flush themselves down the bog.

      *Golf clap*

      Great job SatNad, you're the perfect leader to steer the Titanic.

      1. psychonaut

        Re: At Paul, re: Paint for screen dumps.

        Why are you using the snipping tool for screenshots?

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: At Paul, re: Paint for screen dumps.

        While I'm blind & can't see the screen dump to edit it, I can hot key Copy&Paste the screen dump into Paint, Save As, give it a file name, & email the resulting file in less time than it would take to even LAUNCH something "better" (a more powerful graphics editing program).

        Crap, my apologies for overlooking your needs. You are going to need some hotkey screenshot utility now.

        You would probably not have much use for the macOS screen dump keystroke either as I'm not sure there's a way to manually set the filename. It's generally "Screenshot(screen)" + date/time, with "screen" present if you have more than one monitor.

    3. collinsl

      Which in Windows 7 + you can do with the snipping tool

    4. Michael B.

      Re: What are they thinking?

      I *think* he said in an interview that he uses the XP version even on a later version of Windows so his glorious paintings will be safe.

    5. Dan 55 Silver badge

      Re: What are they thinking?

      It's one of the first programs used at my kid's school, but if MS get rid of it that means that people learn to look for alternatives at a young age, so it's probably a good thing.

    6. IsJustabloke Silver badge
      Facepalm

      Re: What are they thinking?

      Thanks for the update.

      1. Danny 14 Silver badge

        Re: What are they thinking?

        Snipping tool sounds great. How do you blockout the email address the middle of the selection and put a red circle to highlight a further portion of the selection?

        1. psychonaut

          Re: What are they thinking?

          my comment was supposed to say "why ARENT you using the snipping tool...."

          sorry..!

          you can do blocks of colour and lines etc straight in the snipping tool.

          1. psychonaut

            Re: What are they thinking?

            although i might have a look at greenshot. looks good

  8. whoseyourdaddy

    I guess I'll have to buy that other abused bloat app everyone lobbs at me: powerpoint.

    Mental note: before drinking the koolaid, save all the gadgets especially snipping tool. I'm dead if that goes away. I need it for my powerpoints.

    1. TonyJ Silver badge

      "...Mental note: before drinking the koolaid, save all the gadgets especially snipping tool...

      Get a hold of Greenshot for that. You won't look back.

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    How am I going to draw my rudimental penis pictures if they take away paint?

    It's a sad day.

    1. IsJustabloke Silver badge
      Trollface

      "How am I going to draw my rudimental penis pictures if they take away paint?"

      simply send a selfie including the one on your forehead :D

  10. simmondp

    System Image Backup (SIB)

    Actually, the System Image Backup (SIB) is what we should be panicking about - this simple programme, run monthly, has got me out of trouble more than once. If we remove it from "standard" (and no extra cost) windows how many people will never ever run a backup.

    1. Baldrickk Silver badge

      Re: System Image Backup (SIB)

      How many users don't run a backup already?

      1. Danny 14 Silver badge

        Re: System Image Backup (SIB)

        SIB is very simple and has gotten my parents out of a pickle. External drive and SIB is so easy to setup.

    2. Updraft102 Silver badge

      Re: System Image Backup (SIB)

      I agree that Windows should include a usable backup program (given that nearly everyone should to do backups, though most don't bother and some don't even know they need to until they're in trouble), but still, there has to be a point where "If they remove it from the base Windows installation, no one will x" ends, though. Windows isn't installed to only run the programs it came with. They can't include everything, and if the weak ones they DO include end up being the baseline, that's a pretty low standard. What if WordPad was the baseline for what we expect in a word processor?

      That doesn't mean MS should delete them from the baseline install, just that it's not a good practice to depend on MS including stuff because unsavvy users won't ever install something important otherwise. Sometimes even if they are installed, it's still no good.

      In my case, I tried the Windows 7 x64 system backup years ago, but it freaked out when it saw that I had a <2TB GPT volume. Four years after Windows first supported GPT formatting, it still couldn't handle my GPT disk.

  11. Forget It
    Go

    Irfanview has a mini-paint substitute F12

  12. MatsSvensson

    Too many features.

    Cant fit under today big fat fingers!

    1. Anonymous South African Coward Silver badge
      Trollface

      Re: Too many features.

      Get a bigger fondleslab then!

  13. Tim Seventh

    MS Paint

    That moment when you clicked Print Screen and immediately open / paste / save works wonder in MS Paint. It works across windows pre-installed with it's light weighted resource. Now Microsoft wants to completely remove it... sign.

    Yes, Paint 3D does have a lot of special features. That's exactly why it also takes a lot more resources to load. Talk about using a crane to hammer a nail. Not to mention that 3D vectors are different from pixel art. Maybe Microsoft should try to write a report in Paint 3D and tell us how that felt.

    1. Charles 9 Silver badge

      Re: MS Paint

      "Maybe Microsoft should try to write a report in Paint 3D and tell us how that felt."

      And if they say they LOVED it and wouldn't use anything else?

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    From the article:

    Interestingly, Microsoft's also hanging the axe over its System Image Backup (SIB) Solution, advising that it's time to “use full-disk backup solutions from other vendors.”

    I find this mystifying.

    I'm a long time Windows user, but look on with some envy at Apple's Time Machine. Over there in FruityVille it seems trivially easy to back up a computer, restore an entire machine, etc. It all seems very well integrated, a standard part of the OS. Whereas on Windows it's always been, well to put it frankly, shit. And now it's looking like it will become non-existant. Non-existant shit is normally better than existant shit, especially when it's all over your laptop, but just occassionally some manure is required.

    Rely on third party solutions? Doesn't that tell MS something about what they're doing wrong?!?!?!

    1. Kevin Johnston Silver badge

      The thing to remember here is that EVERYTHING other than the core OS is an add-on in the eyes of MS and can be dropped at any time, this may be a result of the browser wars thing but more probably just the way the company split it out - 'you guys make the OS work and you other guys write the other bits' kind of thing . That includes backups, security, screen management etc whereas most other OS look beyond 'in a perfect world' to include some features for managing the device and recovery as part of the core. They don't have to be used but if you do they are fully integrated and...just work.

      1. Terry 6 Silver badge

        Re; Kevin Johnston

        This is a fundamental point. An OS should an operating system. i.e. contain the basic functionality to make a computer usable. This means the programmes that boot the machine and allow software to run and a few essential utilities that need to be universal, to ensure the availability of some basic functionality. Like a simple text editor, graphics editor/screen shot tool, file manager, a zip utility and arguably a minimum security system. We can argue about the precise requirements. But these elements need to be consistently available and reasonably simple. They are the things that make an operating system work. OTOH an OS should not be mandating the user's choice of working programmes. Microsoft seem to be trying to remove the former, while increasing trying to force the latter. Including adding in all kinds of crap that they want us to use and preventing us removing it. (Mixed reality portal anyone?) I'm guessing that they want to try to create a closed system that ties users in to their products.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      RE: Doesn't that tell MS something about what they're doing wrong?

      It does. Very simply, they don't effing care about the users. They know that they have them all over a barrel and can be raped at will because there is far too much resistance to change in most businesses so Windows and all that goes with it are locked in and are ready for raping (financially).

      Naturally, there will be pockets of resistance but these will soon be removed by the MS Stormtroopers.

      I'm glad that I'm totally MS free these days. It was a great relief when my jod was sent to India and I retired leaving all that Windows mess behind me. Still I can't complain too loudly as I earned a living from that crap for the last 20 odd years of my working life.

      Linux and MacOS are where it is at for me these days.

    3. Dan 55 Silver badge

      Want a backup? Save to OneDrive. Only £x a month. Or to save even more money, Office 365 + OneDrive. Only £y a month.

      The monetisation of Windows continues apace.

      1. Updraft102 Silver badge

        Save a backup to the cloud?

        If only!

        My backup would be obsolete from being too old before it was even half way done uploading!

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Over there in FruityVille it seems trivially easy to back up a computer, restore an entire machine, etc. It all seems very well integrated, a standard part of the OS

      I wouldn't call it perfect but it does the job well, also because it gives users access to the time slices in a fairly easy to use way and - VERY important - it tolerates the backup target being absent, in which case it buffers the backups locally until it can see the target disk again and then unspools it cache. If you set up the wireless drive for it it will basically do all of that without the need for ANY user input. I'm just picky in that I like a secondary restore-from-the-bare-metal backup (leftover from my Windows days where I'd use Acronis True Home), so I run Carbon Copy Cloner every week, but in theory that is overkill. Even that is automated: I've set it up that it whinges at me if it can't find the backup disk and it starts the backup as soon as I plug it in.

      I'd take one step back though, and observe that that free OS comes with enough facilities to make the hardware you just bought useful, straight out of the box, and I think Microsoft is at risk of losing that if they go on like this.

  15. David Roberts Silver badge

    Outlook Express?

    Thought that went before Windows Live Mail which is more or less history now.

    1. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Unhappy

      Re: Outlook Express?

      OE wasn't bad, if you made sure to mark everything as being 'high risk' security-wise. I forget what the 'zone' was called. had to disable scripting AND messenger [it had really bad security holes], and not view as HTML. I still do that with T-bird, which is in many ways similar to OE.

      So yeah, use T-bird if you liked OE.

      But M-shaft shouldn't have abandoned it, either.

    2. quxinot

      Re: Outlook Express?

      Nevermind OE. I want them to drop support for IE!

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    IIS 6 Management Compatibility

    Well I hope they give another method of managing the basic SMTP server that Windows Server shits ships with!

    1. Danny 14 Silver badge

      Re: IIS 6 Management Compatibility

      That will be IIS 7 manager then.

  17. AndrueC Silver badge
    Unhappy

    Noooo!

    I use this a lot with screen capture. Nothing graphical, mind. Mostly for just capturing textual information - the Quick Watch from Visual Studio is a common subject. But it's also a quick and easy way to stick an arrow on or draw a circle around something when I'm talking about issues with a UI.

  18. Ochib

    Patrick Hanes

    "I suck at photoshop and have use MS Paint for 10 years" and publicished a Graphic Novel done all in MS Paint

    So what MS are going to do is remove a package that anyone can use to express their artistic side.

    https://digitalsynopsis.com/design/microsoft-paint-pat-hines-ebook-illustrations/

  19. wolfetone Silver badge

    WWJPID?

    What Will Jim'll Paint It Do?

  20. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Its like they don't want people to use their software

    Microsoft: they just don't get it, do they?

  21. RAMChYLD
    FAIL

    Naff and underpowered?

    It takes 10 seconds to fire up paint, paste the screenshot into it, crop it, and then save the shot as a JPG to use in technical documentations. People might not miss it, but I will. The Gimp is great, but that's for serious art sessions, not quick screenshot work.

  22. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Ride a painted pony

    There goes my Certificate IV in MS-Paint qualms!

  23. Prst. V.Jeltz Silver badge

    What? theyve only just finished it. now it can save in a format other than bmp - and theyre throwing it away?

  24. Aladdin Sane Silver badge

    Reasons it should stay

    This.

    And this.

    1. Prst. V.Jeltz Silver badge

      Re: Reasons it should stay

      That This is awesome!

      1. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

        Re: Reasons it should stay

        Yes it is awesome.

        But MS won't listen to us mere mortals.

        So, they'll remove it.

        Then 6 months later it will return as a paid for subscription app £3.99/month.

        Then they will wonder why no one is buying it. Then it will kill it totally. Sheesh.

  25. Milton Silver badge

    Irony ain't dead

    Because there is surely some rich irony in the fact that while M$ continually add to Windows "features" which are basically designed to lock in the users and steal as much of their data and behaviour as conceivably possible, they are also removing the few remaining useful things that people actually benefited from.

    Yes, Paint is a bit shyte, but for processing a quick screenshot, especially so you can flip it onwards to someone else, with minimum keystrokes or effort, it was genuinely handy. If you consider the minimal effort M$ put into Paint and its small footprint, it's probably better bang-for-buck than the unutterable garbage that they turned Visio into. Notwithstanding that all M$ software has generally got nastier with ribbon bars, bloat and intrusiveness ....

    If the M$ policy is "Drive away users, and especially precipitate a mass exodus when W7 support stops"* then obviously, every little counts.

    * Sticking with W7 now for just one last piece of software, because (apropos of this topic, oddly enough) Paint.net isn't available on *ix. Who knows, by the time W7 is unsupportable, GIMP's UI will have stopped sucking too.

    1. Stevie Silver badge

      Re: Irony ain't dead

      "A bit shyte" is the point. It's adding all the feature-richness that makes stuff hard to use. Gimp, Photoshop, Blender. All non-intuitive because the feature-richness gets in the way.

      FWIW the most feature rich drawing pad I ever found that was delightfully intuitive and easy to pick up was the old Macromedia Flash IV stage. I still fire it up if I need to draw something moderately complex quickly. Need a hemisphere? Draw a circle, cut it in half and shade. Five operations.

  26. WibbleMe

    What would our CEO's do all day?

  27. DrXym Silver badge

    As long as MS supply a viable replacement

    Tools like notepad, calc, paint, wordpad etc. have been woefully underdeveloped for years. Unacceptably so in some cases.

    So I don't care if they go, but Microsoft should provide a replacement with equivalent or better functionality. And really it should be part of the OS, not something that has to be grabbed from the store - not everyone has access to the store, e.g. if the PC is disconnected, or in a broken state, or they're in an enterprise setting.

  28. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Yeah ok

    This will become a marketing exercise. "User beloved Paint app spared!"

  29. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Maybe they're trying to find the pinch point?

    If nobody howls they'll keep taking. My fear is no-one will be bothered outside this page and those who will pay to solve minor wrinkles will just pay. Those who don't will surely become irrelevant. Those who don't care, don't care.

  30. TeeCee Gold badge
    WTF?

    You mean to say that there are people out there who haven't already ditched it in favour of the free and vastly superior Paint.NET?

    1. Nick Ryan Silver badge

      You mean to say that there are people out there who haven't already ditched it in favour of the free and vastly superior Paint.NET?

      paint.net is not installed on all systems by default, mspaint is. This makes mspaint as useful as notepad or would you rather have to install Visual Studio on all systems (desktop and server alike) to open up a .cfg or .ini file?

      Not that installing on all systems by default is a good thing because the 'tards at Microsoft marketing seem to be under the drug addled conclusion that it's a "good thing" to foist candy crush, USA news (or whatever it's called, MSN or whatever) or other shitty preview/freemium applications by default on all Win10 non-enterprise systems.

  31. Unicornpiss Silver badge
    Meh

    From the people that..

    ..gave us the utterly useless "TwinUI" photo viewer app. (that seems to break itself after you've been using Windows for a while)

    Silly to get rid of Paint--it's not like it's taking up a lot of space. (though I use Paint.net anyway) Next to go will probably be Solitare.

    And just a little rant here to make me feel better: My father used to complain when cars no longer had gauges, just "idiot lights". Microsoft has gone down the same path, only worse. Starting with the removal of the network activity widget that sat in the system tray and let you know that your computer was actually doing something, Windows has given less and less information in each new release. Now we have Windows updates that don't tell you anything about what's being installed, or how far along in any meaningful way. And on recent Dells, there is no hard drive activity light. So you can sit there and watch the pretty spinny thing on the screen, which has been happening for an hour, and with no indication as to whether your computer is actually doing anything, have to guess if you should wait another hour or if you should kill it and start over.

    1. This post has been deleted by its author

  32. adam payne Silver badge

    I can't imagine Windows not having Paint.

    I seen the Paint icon soo many times over the years I have gotten used to having it around.

    R.I.P Paint

  33. silks

    Microsoft Paint Privacy

    Surely MS can find some way to monetise Paint with some privacy-invading tech in Win10?

  34. ecofeco Silver badge

    Of course they, they finally got it fixed

    Of course they want to axe Paint. They finally sort of got it right after 20 years.

    That makes it extinguish time.

  35. Chris Hainey
    Mushroom

    If this leads to the end of Jim'll Paint It, Microsoft are going to have a riot on their hands

  36. revdjenk

    Questions ...

    Weren't all these add-ons like Paint, WMP, Internet Explorer,etc. meant to kill off some competing application and/or to give impression of the completeness of the OS by including it into windows?

    Are these features being taken out now to fill out the Windows Store with more applications?

  37. MJI Silver badge

    mspaint

    I have back installed Vista paint on W7 at work as it has menus unlike the W7 version.

    So W10 is falling?

    Not surprised.

  38. Stevie Silver badge

    Bah!

    You know, I think MS wants to be Apple in five years.

    With locked-down tablets and locked-down music players and locked-down phones and tat like that.

    I don't think they want to do computers for computerists any more.

    1. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

      Re: Bah!

      You are forgetting all that lovely lucre they (MS) will be getting every month from all those subscriptions.

      Orifice 365, Windows, Games, Paint and the rest and that is just for starters.

      Apple hasn't gone that far (yet?)

    2. Updraft102 Silver badge

      Re: Bah!

      It's quite evident, but MS has missed one little observation: iOS, which is what they are trying to copy, is 100% mobile and 0% desktop. Microsoft's platform, for better or worse, is nearly 100% desktop (I include x86 convertibles as being part of that market) and 0% mobile. People expect different things on mobile and on real computers.

      Trying to cram real computers into a mobile model is madness-- Apple knows how much they've made in mobile, and even they're not trying it. MS has convinced itself that Windows 10 is universal, so copying iOS 10 is not apples to oranges. I mean, if you asked any of them what MS product competes with iOS, it would be WIndows 10, right?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Bah!

        "Trying to cram real computers into a mobile model is madness"

        Been trying to tell Microsoft that since Windows 8. Microsoft didn't listen then, it sure will not listen now. Sinofsky, Larson-Greene and Ballmer didn't listen, data mining SatNad won't listen now.

        Windows 8 = leveraging Microsoft's desktop monopoly to make inroads into mobile.

        Windows 10 = same as Windows 8 but also to make inroads into cloud/subscription services and big data (mining) and ad delivery revenue stream.

  39. Zog_but_not_the_first Silver badge
    Big Brother

    If only...

    They were as upfront about the things they're putting in...

  40. handleoclast Silver badge

    Windows long since lost the only app I regularly used

    And it was a very good pinball game, too.

    No icon for joke, troll or getting coat because I'm absolutely serious.

    Pinball was the best thing about windows. Back in the days when I had a Windows computer along with real computers, I only ever fired it up to play pinball.

  41. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Yet another example of Microsoft going full retard, Skype's revamp was the beginning.

    If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Paint 3D was superfluous... pro users are going to use Adobe Photoshop (or GIMP for the open source fanatics) anyway. There's also the highly competent freeware Paint.NET.

    If anyone is looking for an excellent lightweight program to view, quickly edit and crop your pictures, I highly recommend Irfanview. I've been using it since the days of dialup internet. With the plugins pack installed, you can even view videos and pdf documents.

    The only bad thing about Irfanview is that some 2-byte characters on the image filename (e.g. Chinese and Korean) show up as '????' and garbled characters on Irfanview's title bar. But it's a minor annoyance, and the dev (Irfan?) really deserves some support with financial donations.

    Good thing is: somewhere out there, on the corners of the interwebs, someone has saved copies of the XP versions of calc.exe, mspaint.exe and the free Windows games e.g. Minesweeper, Solitaire, MS Hearts etc. Some may require additional dll files, but they should work well on Windows 10.

    And remember, installing whatever you please on Windows, even the vintage versions of Microsoft's own Windows apps, cannot be done if you are shackled to the Microsoft App Store (Windows 10 S). Windows is NOT a walled garden, SatNad had better wake up his bloody idea!

    1. Updraft102 Silver badge

      Re: Yet another example of Microsoft going full retard, Skype's revamp was the beginning.

      Winaero.com has the installer to put Win 7's games on 8 and 10. They work fine; I use them all the time. Not sure about calc, though; I am using 8.1, which came with the good old Win 7 calc anyway.

  42. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Outlook Express was my second email client

    Eudora Light was the first: it came on the ISP's CD when I first signed up for dialup Internet.

    Then webmail arrived and the rest is history. Yahoo was the king back then, Microsoft's Hotmail was constantly trying to play catchup. When Gmail came someone had to send you an invitation, you couldn't just sign up for an account.

    I always thought that Outlook Express was fairly decent as an email client for a home user. But of course, it would always be second class citizen to Outlook which was bundled together with Office.

  43. IGnatius T Foobar
    FAIL

    Microsoft FAIL

    Fine, axe the Paint program if you want, but give us the option to uninstall all of the other crapware that comes with Windoze 10. FFS Microsoft, I'm an IT guy; my work computer doesn't need all of your crappy Windoze Phone apps.

  44. bobajob12 Bronze badge

    Not the apocalypse

    The real issue for me is the difficulty of recording state on a GUI system. If you are a thousand miles from the user and something bad is happening you need to know what they see, and what the computer thinks is happening. MSINFO32 and reg dumps are very handy...and Alt-PrtSc plus Paint too. And they are always, always installed.

    Having said that, I don't think MSFT are removing it from the W10 Update, they're just not working on it any more. So long as it stays, or another equivalently functional program remains, I have no quibble. Frankly the last time they worked on Paint they produced the ribbon UI, which was not exactly,er, required, so not touching it any more is fine by me.

  45. michael105uk

    Cropping

    I'll be sad to see the demise of Paint - as others have said, it's a great way of crudely drawing out a technical diagram without having to fanny about in PPT.

    However, with regards to cropping - I still think back to the magical day that my life literally changed instantly. I have no idea how many countless hours have been saved needlessly cropping screen grabs (especially when using multiple monitors) when the little beauty that is Snipping Tool was shown to me.

  46. Updraft102 Silver badge

    Screen shots

    Don't forget that Win 8, 8.1, and 10 can do instant screenshots with Win + PrtSc. The image will be in Pictures\Screenshots, if I'm not mistaken. You'll still need something to crop and annotate it if necessary, but as far as grabbing the image, this is even more convenient than PrtSc - load Paint - Ctrl-V - Save - Enter filename - enter.

  47. Herby Silver badge

    Taken to extreme??

    They might decide to depreciate Windows itself. After all it is pretty virus prone, subject to many faults, not well liked by users, and not well maintained.

    Of course some users have already done that, and use an alternative. Fruity and Penguinistas abound.

  48. Dwarf Silver badge

    Somewhere in Microsoft Land this makes sense

    They produce a paint tool that people find handy and it gets used.Its not fancy, but it works and you can ensure that everyone knows its there, so you can use it for remote support to get screenshots.

    They decide to make a 2D user interface on Windows 10, then ship it with a 3D paint program - oh the irony.

    Then they remove the 2D version

    Whats next ?

    Visual Paint.Net version 35.4 - comes as a 20Gb download and has loads of features that you'll never need ?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Somewhere in Microsoft Land this makes sense

      The good old MS Paint can't be monetized (app store and/or ad delivery), isn't 'modern' and does not integrate well with other Microsoft's offerings and the Microsoft cloud.

      This is what happens when a company gets too big and is infested with hipsters and trendies a.k.a 'Insiders'.

      P.S: Use Irfanview. Lightweight and gets the job done.

  49. regregular

    Will we see a Paint successor, maybe called OnePaint or CloudPaint, in which the ToS fine print states that everything created/modified with the tool automatically surrenders all copyrights to Microsoft?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      There is already a cousin of the ubiquitous mspaint.exe

      https://www.getpaint.net

      " It started development as an undergraduate college senior design project mentored by Microsoft, and is currently being maintained by some of the alumni that originally worked on it. Originally intended as a free replacement for the Microsoft Paint software that comes with Windows, it has grown into a powerful yet simple image and photo editor tool."

  50. tempemeaty

    Time to put on an army uniform...aaaannnd...

    MS man, you went full retard. Never go full retard.

  51. J J Carter Silver badge
    Linux

    You are spoiling us Mr El Reg

    Another MSFT two-minute hate!

  52. Zmodem

    its rubbish anyway compared to http://mypaint.org/

  53. Al Black

    You Guys have heard of the Snipping tool, right?

    I think the MS Snipping tool arrived with Vista; it's in 7, 8.1 and 10, anyway.

    Run - Snipping Tool

    New

    Select

    Paste

    Done.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: You Guys have heard of the Snipping tool, right?

      MS Paint is more than just a 'snipping tool'... it's a lifestyle.

      1. Zmodem

        Re: You Guys have heard of the Snipping tool, right?

        most paint programs are rubbish, mypaint is another world when you hit google images, ontop of not needing slow, clunky .NET

  54. largefile

    Are you folks nuts or just whiners?

    Honestly, you geeks are too much. Paint 3D is simple to use, had a much cleaner interface then does legacy Paint and works in flat 2d as easily as it does in 3D.

    Is there anything Microsoft can do that you will applaud? Paint 3D is light years ahead of legacy Paint while retaining it's simplicity. WTF do you guys want?

    1. regregular

      Re: Are you folks nuts or just whiners?

      >> Is there anything Microsoft can do that you will applaud?

      Yes, full source code release.

      >> WTF do you guys want?

      See above.

  55. largefile

    Paint 3d is simple to use in 2d/flat and provides more conversion options. You folks are just a bunch of whiners who will roll over in your graves before you will complement Microsoft on anything. If you really had the morals you profess to, you would stop using Microsoft products and quit supporting them in your networking or what have you jobs out of principle. NOPE, you are sluts who will happily take money and continue to whine.

    Meanwhile, Microsoft is soaring and resurgent as you folks age and decline in misplaced anger.

    1. NonSSL-Login

      Just seen your post history and boy, thought you worked for Microsoft PR or just a very special fan boy.

      Every post is saying how great microsoft is and how everyone is haters :D Doesn't matter if its about Windows desktop or Windows phones. Then I noticed your post about having shares in Microsoft and it all clicked in to place. Personally I don't think your lone wolf comments here (and elsewhere) will help increase the share price.

      Microsoft made ridiculous changes to their user interface a while back so I moved away from Windows and happily been using Linux at home for a few years. I did however used to use the simple sreenshot, open paint, paste and save (sometimes crop) features which literally took seconds to do. From what everyone has said in this thread it now takes a lot longer to do and even for Paint3d to load. It's a step backwards for the majority who just used it for the basic tasks.

      But again, it's pointless talking common sense to someone only worried about the price of their shares in Microsoft...

      1. largefile

        Just tested, Paint 3D took a full 3 seconds to fully open on my four year old Lenovo laptop running Windows 10. Oh man.....I feel like I've aged.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          "Just tested, Paint 3D took a full 3 seconds to fully open"

          Try it again on an Intel atom chip, prefer 1GHz max and 1 core. Oh man.....I feel too old...

  56. VulcanV5
    Happy

    Microsoft. Deprecated.

    The preening pomposity of this grubby software company as well as its CEO's delusions of adequacy continue to amuse. Generation Moron knows no better than to accept -- and dutifully parrot -- the Redmond vernacular, but for the rest of us MS English is exactly that: MicroShite. How entertaining it is, then, that the latest news from the 'campus' is another 'deprecation', this time by its 'Creator' tat.

    It'll certainly be a loss to the world of comedy when 'Apocalypse' overwhelms.

  57. Dan 55 Silver badge
    Devil

    The Grauniad says Paint has had a reprieve

    It will now be available from the Windows Store.

    One could almost think that was their plan all along. Better publicity than their tiles which people completely ignore.

    I wonder if it'll get ads.

  58. NURREDIN

    This is PRECISELY why my office still uses Windows XP computers that don't go on the internet.Microsoft keeps getting rid of things that are truly useful in order to get you to purchase new software or a new computer. XP does EVERYTHING I need in an office computer. For Microsoft to stop supporting OS's that still work is just as dumb as if my Mercedes dealer tells me he won't service my 2010 SL because it's 7 years old.Everything creative in my studio business is done on Macs.I only use a Windows 7 PC to upload our files. When they stop supporting 7,I'm going to a Chrome computer for internet communications.I'm done with Microsoft.

    1. Charles 9 Silver badge

      Then what happens WHEN (not IF) a program you ABSOLUTELY need ONLY works on Windows (and let's say ONLY Windows 8 and up for "security reasons") and (due to its purpose) MUST be online? I mean, why can't game developers see the writing on the wall and code for a united flavor of Linux, for example (because for every working headliner example you can cite I can probably name at least two that won't and probably never will like Fallout 4).

  59. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    next gonna be the notepad

  60. Andy3

    B****rds! Yes, it is quite naff and clunky, but it is easy to use and very handy for doing quick, non-demanding graphics jobs. I use it for knocking-up block diagrams of electronic devices. The adding of text is easy too. Don't bin it, MS!

  61. oneguycoding

    Uncompressed BMP

    Giant (for the time) uncompressed BMP files, that's the only thing I remember about MS Paint from my days at uni in the 80s and 90s. My attempts to convert my fellow grad students to JPG/PNG/GIF (pron like gin, you heathens) almost always fell on deaf ears.

  62. largefile

    Legacy Paint will continue for free in the app store.

    https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2017/07/24/ms-paint-stay/

  63. Stub Mandrel

    Wake Up and Smell the Coffee

    Simple, functional programs are not what M$ want us to have. They took away the simple but oh-so-effective retouch tools in photo-viewer. then they hid Photo-viewer and Media player, because they don't harvest enough data from us or try and share our images on line.

    I've found the solution - I no longer give a shit who knows anything about my online existence. If I want something private, I keep it in my head or use paper.

    If Google can make money by making the adverts I ignore more relevant to my life, great for them, I won't start paying attention!

    So I thought, but they offered me the Feynmann Lectures for free... and I clicked.

    ....

    He loved Big Brother...

  64. Terry 6 Silver badge

    Something simpler than just wanting to harvest data is at the root

    I get a strong impression that since they almost missed the internet boat, Microsoft is driven by a kind of paranoid fear that they might get left behind again. So they are forever jumping to the next lily pad.. As soon as they see something that looks like a trend; data harvesting, cloud provision, "apps", cross platform OS, search and so on, they feel that they have to be making their money with that, and throwing any existing babies out with the bathwater. Their eyes are so fixed on the recent past that they can neither build on their heritage nor innovate for the future. They're in a perpetual game of catch-up that they can never win.

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