back to article Trump to world: Forget moving to America to do a startup

US president Donald Trump's America First slogan has been extended to StartupLand after the Department of Homeland Security announced a delay to the implementation of the International Entrepreneur Rule, aka the “Startup visa”. The Rule was due to come into effect next week and would have allowed entrepreneurs with stateside …

  1. HollyHopDrive

    If...

    ...we had a decent government minister in charge of this kind of thing now would be a great moment and swoop to snap up the opportunity to welcome new businesses here and be very vocal about it. Unfortunately we'll probably just let this one pass by and let one of the other euro nations take the initiative.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: If...

      What, let in foreigners [and, more importantly, encourage people to vote UKIP again?]

      You must be joking

      Signed Amber Rudd.

      (This account taken over through a backdoor).

      1. Solarflare

        Re: If...

        The though of Amber Rudd's backdoor makes me feel queasy

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: If...

          --->The though of Amber Rudd's backdoor makes me feel queasy

          She wants you to have the backdoor and the silly *** is so ****ing stupid she doesn't even listen to her own security experts telling her it's a bad idea.

          The UK only just managed to keep Ultra secret in WW2 due to leaks by the Americans and to the Russians. That was 6 years. With modern methods of electronic surveillance, how long will it be before a bent policeman is reading your credit card details or planting evidence on your computer?

          At least both major political parties are equal offenders when it comes to security, so, citizen, you have no option.

          1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

            Re: If...

            "At least both major political parties are equal offenders when it comes to security, so, citizen, you have no option."

            Other parties are available. And please don't come back with the usual reply; your vote does count but only if you cast it.

    2. big_D Silver badge

      Re: If...

      It is certainly an opportunity for places like the Silicon Roundabout and the startup centres like those in Berlin's GTEC, the new Station F in Paris or Spain or a lot of other places.

      Maybe it is good to have home grown talent supported locally and to spread out the ideas. Having everything centred around Silicon Valley's toxic atmosphere isn't good for the rest of the world and I sometimes think that a lot of the startups coming out of SV haven't got a foot based in the real world.

      Diversity is good.

    3. codejunky Silver badge

      Re: If...

      @ HollyHopDrive

      "Unfortunately we'll probably just let this one pass by and let one of the other euro nations take the initiative."

      While we might not have faith in our gov to do it we can at least know the EU will move at a slower pace.

      1. Rich 11 Silver badge

        Re: If...

        other euro nations

        ----

        the EU will move at a slower pace.

        How on earth do you manage to conflate the two? Is it a special UKIP setting carried only by some brains? Are you suggesting that no EU nation can allow entrepreneurs to enter without the blessing of the EU? That would be a bit strange, given that the UK loves its dodgy Tier 1 Invester scheme whereby extremely wealthy people from anywhere in the world can buy a foot in the door and get a passport within as little as two years.

        1. Def Silver badge

          Re: If...

          It's pretty common throughout the world to be able to buy a passport (or at least residency) through investment. It's really just a question of how much it costs.

        2. codejunky Silver badge

          Re: If...

          @ Rich 11

          "How on earth do you manage to conflate the two?"

          Erm euro nation is now an ambiguous term thanks to the EU currency euro, the EU constantly referring to itself and europe and the easy deduction of the part of Europe which is desperate to attract more investment... the EU. Feel free to point out he was talking about Russia.

          "Are you suggesting that no EU nation can allow entrepreneurs to enter without the blessing of the EU?"

          How did you conflate that? Is it some special setting in a remoaners brain? The original comment was about swooping up the opportunity. Considering the EU's amusing play at taking away our banks and looking like childish idiots with little appeal and the French talking about taxing to a halt high frequency trading, as well as their dictating rules (mocked aplenty for dictating the shape of a banana and dictating the contents of 'jam') I cant imagine them swooping in, can you?

          "That would be a bit strange, given that the UK loves its dodgy Tier 1 Invester scheme whereby extremely wealthy people from anywhere in the world can buy a foot in the door and get a passport within as little as two years."

          We really do invite investment dont we. Well pointed out.

    4. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

      Re: If...

      "welcome new businesses here"

      We don't do that here. We just have ideas and then give them away.

      Not only do we not do start-up investment, we actively place hurdles in the way of start-ups. Those that do manage to get started will be taxed and regulated out of existence as quickly as possible. That's one thing the government is a\actually good at.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: If...

        "Those that do manage to get started will be taxed and regulated out of existence as quickly as possible. "

        Massachusetts is one of the most highly taxed and regulated places in the world. It also has one of the highest incomes per head.

        Curiously what seems to matter is not the amount of tax and regulation. It's the way it is done, and that is where the UK government sucks.

  2. Khaptain Silver badge

    Close the door and turn of the light

    It certainly appears that El Trump is closing the borders one by one...

    Isn't this one the path to dictatorship ?

    1. codejunky Silver badge

      Re: Close the door and turn of the light

      @ Khaptain

      I am not sure Trump would be capable of achieving a dictatorship. But his elections was one of the better sought after outcomes as he doesnt know what he is doing and will be blocked by both republicans and democrats. Where the democrats chosen one dictated by the party would have had support to do things Trump in the fair election of the republican candidate has little support from either party.

      1. james 68

        Re: Close the door and turn of the light

        They must be playing a bloody long game then, considering how they've supported everything so far no matter how stupid/self destructive/treasonous.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Close the door and turn of the light

      Close the borders. Disrupt free press. Dehumanize and blame minority groups. Yup, it's all there.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Close the door and turn of the light

        "Close the borders. Disrupt free press."

        Threaten the judiciary into slavish compliance.

        1. Nick Ryan Silver badge

          Re: Close the door and turn of the light

          Control of the press is most important - control the (easily leadable) minds of the majority and you can do what you want. For example, publicly denounce (otherwise impartial) judges for upholding the law in a manner directly reminiscent of some of the most public instances of the early Nazi party. Once you've beaten enough impartial judges down through "popular" opinion, the dictatorship is yours.

          1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

            Re: Close the door and turn of the light

            Control of the press Twitter account is most important

        2. DougS Silver badge

          @AC "Threaten the judiciary into slavish compliance."

          Fortunately Trump can bluster all he wants against judges, but as they're appointed for life there's nothing he can threaten them with. The founders were smart when they put the judiciary and legislative branches as checks against unlimited executive power - they knew we'd screw up and elect someone like Trump someday who would be firing judges who disagreed with him and eventually disbanding congress if it weren't for the Constitution.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: @AC "Threaten the judiciary into slavish compliance."

            "[...] they knew we'd screw up and elect someone like Trump someday who would be firing judges who disagreed with him and eventually disbanding congress if it weren't for the Constitution."

            The Founding Fathers created the Electoral College specifically as a guard against an unsuitable populist president being elected. Unfortunately some states had removed the right for their EC representatives to vote against the state's choice. Some had also made it a "winner takes all" disposition of their EC votes. In the end the EC appeared to lack the necessary insight into Trump's character.

            The German system in 1933 had similar protections for the judiciary. It was found that senior judges could not be bribed with career inducements or sanctions. The successful tactic used in those cases was "nice family you have - shame if anything were to happen to them" - and they resigned. Trump hasn't reached that stage - but some of his more fervent supporters are possibly a different matter.

            It is to be hoped that the GOP don't pass an "Enabling" law as a precaution to be activated if there is widespread political rioting in the streets..

    3. fajensen Silver badge
      Black Helicopters

      Re: Close the door and turn of the light

      One would hope! Americans need to experience the "Freedom" they deem to be appropriate for everyone else that are not Americans. Also, "Regime Changing" and "Arab Springing" themselves will keep them busy for a while, which makes the world safer.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I'm just wondering how long it will be be till the Mexicans build the wall themselves. Canada won't be far behind either.

    1. Rich 11 Silver badge

      Perhaps this was Trump's cunning plan all along. In the words of one of his illustrious predecessors, we've all misunderestimated him.

    2. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

      I'm just wondering how long it will be be till the Mexicans build the wall themselves. Canada won't be far behind either.

      And in Canadas' case it would be a giant wall of ice sheltering the Great North from the southern barbarians..

      Now where have I heard of something like that before?

  4. Your alien overlord - fear me

    How does it benefit YankeeDoodle land if some US investor gives me $1m for my startup and I have to do everything in the UK? I don't employ any Mexicans (other low wage minorities are available), I pay no state or federal tax, nuffink. And it shows the world that the US is technologically in the stone age when everyone else is leaping forward. Stupid idea by a stupid....

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Make Amercia great...

      And it shows the world that the US is technologically in the stone age when everyone else is leaping forward.

      America... where you need a permit (which costs $$$$$) to do just about everything. It took Tesla 2 years to get all the permissions needed (not just planning) to build a supercharger setup in Florida. Then more permits are needed to operate it... WTF?

      America.. Where if you call yourself an Engineer and have not paid your tithe to the local gestapo, you get fined (Oregon). It does not matter how many qualifications in engineering you have until you pay the local dues you can't call yourself an Engineer.

      etc

      etc

      etc

      America - where doing just about anything is illegal somewhere.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      I don't know why, but His Excellency President for Life, Field Marshal Alhaji Dr. Idi Amin Dada, VC, DSO, MC, CBE, comes to mind.

      1. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken

        "I don't know why, but His Excellency President for Life, Field Marshal Alhaji Dr. Idi Amin Dada, VC, DSO, MC, CBE, comes to mind."

        Are you by any chance implying that it's time to check the freezer at the White House?

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        "Field Marshal Alhaji Dr. Idi Amin Dada, VC, DSO, MC, CBE, comes to mind."

        Idi Amin abruptly threw out all the people of Asian descent because they were effectively monopolising the business sector. He then handed their businesses over to locals of African descent. IIRC they then usually just flogged off the existing stock and the businesses folded.

        Same thing in Zimbabwe when large commercial exporting farms were confiscated and redistributed to Mugabe supporters as inefficient small-holdings.

    3. Dan 55 Silver badge

      The one and only thought in his head (apart from Obama did it so it must be bad) was it means that AT&T and Verizon have less competition.

      Not that AT&T and Verizon were ever going to be able to compete and if it's an Internet start-up it doesn't matter anyway as it can be based anywhere.

  5. Pen-y-gors Silver badge

    Why on Gahd's Green Earth....

    would any non-Merkin want to move to Trump's USA to try and start a business there? There's plenty of other friendlier countries to run a start-up in

    1. Solarflare
      Devil

      Re: Why on Gahd's Green Earth....

      "There's plenty of other friendlier countries to run a start-up in"

      Good point. North Korea for example!

    2. werdsmith Silver badge

      Re: Why on Gahd's Green Earth....

      I do wonder what Trump thinks about Tesla, Paypal, Spacex etc. Elon Musk did immigrate from South Africa after all.

      1. Dan 55 Silver badge

        Re: Why on Gahd's Green Earth....

        Of course he doesn't like them, they compete with GM, Ford, and Boeing, Lockheed, and oil.

    3. Andrew Moore

      Re: Why on Gahd's Green Earth....

      My favourite burger joint ran a competition on July 4th, any one who bought a burger that day were in a chance to win a flight for two to the US. Needless to say, many people stayed away rather than risk winning the competition...

      1. Uncle Slacky Silver badge

        Re: Why on Gahd's Green Earth....

        Let me guess, second prize was two flights to the US...?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Why on Gahd's Green Earth....

          Third price a trip to Guantánamo?

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Why on Gahd's Green Earth....

      Much friendlier places.

      No joke. A previous poster pretty much nailed it: you need permits for your permits for everything and hard asset costs are too high for anyone without deep pockets.

  6. John G Imrie

    Welcome to Gilead,

    Land of the <redacted>

    1. Hollerithevo Silver badge

      Re: Welcome to Gilead,

      Given that women in Arkansas now have to have a man's permission to have an abortion, Gilead is moving ever closer.

  7. Chris G Silver badge

    Two Terms

    Of Trump could leave the US an innovation and competition free wasteland but with a lot of deregulated monopoly owners very happy.

    It looks as though it will produce a dwindling middle class and a growing sub poverty line class but Hey the rich will be richer.

    The New American Dream in action!

    1. ecofeco Silver badge
      Unhappy

      Re: Two Terms

      Despite what many may think, Europe really is living what USED to be the American dream.

      It's also one of the biggest reasons for the constant hate of the EU by the U.S.

  8. CAPS LOCK Silver badge

    Trump "You'all nerds can't come in"

    World - "We weren't coming anyway - knock yourself out"

  9. Tronald Dump
    Devil

    Trumpistan

    Trumpistan

  10. Andrew Moore

    The Post-US Era...

    I saw a great description at the weekend after America's almost non-appearance at the G20 summit. It said that we have now moved into the Post-US era; the time when America's relevance on the world stage diminishes and some other country moves in to fill the void. Right now, that is looking like China or Russia, India lagging a lot behind them and Europe in a distant forth place.

    1. TrumpSlurp the Troll Silver badge
      Coat

      Re: The Post-US Era... Europe forth place

      Perl of a comment.

      1. Rich 11 Silver badge

        Re: The Post-US Era... Europe forth place

        Perl of a comment.

        I C what you did there.

      2. Korev Silver badge
        Coat

        Re: The Post-US Era... Europe forth place

        You R correct

        1. DropBear Silver badge
          Facepalm

          Re: The Post-US Era... Europe forth place

          Dang it, Firefly's prediction of English / Mandarin being the lingua franca of the future wasn't a joke... I better start studying.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: The Post-US Era... Europe forth place

            "Dang it, Firefly's prediction of English / Mandarin being the lingua franca of the future wasn't a joke... I better start studying."

            A friend's son was born in Hong Kong while his father was working there - over 20 years ago. He was sent to a preschool that taught Mandarin - rather than the local Cantonese. They eventually returned to the UK for his secondary schooling - where his A Levels included Mandarin and Russian. He graduated with an Engineering degree.

            His father was confident all along that he was calling the right shots.

      3. breakfast
        Coat

        Re: The Post-US Era... Europe forth place

        I bet people regularly express appreciation of your comments.

      4. CentralCoasty
        Pint

        Re: The Post-US Era... Europe forth place

        I read it as "force place"... .lots of hipster's with litres of beer waving light-sabers....

        That said I agree. It seems to be a tussle between China & Russia at the moment - and I would put my money on China.... the EU seems to be happy to be an "also ran" - the scars of WWII run very deep it seems..... the US will probably perform a hard-landing - similar to the situation the UK ended up in a few decades back......

    2. John G Imrie

      Re: The Post-US Era...

      I'm hoping China rather than Russia, China is more likely to give stability than Russia.

      1. JamesPond
        Mushroom

        Re: The Post-US Era...

        "I'm hoping China rather than Russia"

        Given that Putin contacted the Chinese just after the US/UK banking crisis started and tried to co-opt China into helping Russia crash wall-street, then China is definitely the lesser of the two worst options.

        http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26609548

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: The Post-US Era...

      "I saw a great description at the weekend after America's almost non-appearance at the G20 summit."

      Trump has touted the G20 summit as his "wondeful success".

      1. Nick Ryan Silver badge

        Re: The Post-US Era...

        Trump has touted the G20 summit as his "wondeful success".

        So did chairman May. Well, the rabidly, reality-distorting UK Tory press did anyway.

        1. DougS Silver badge

          Re: The Post-US Era...

          I think a four year absence from the world stage is hardly enough to usher in the "post-US" era. And if it does, it doesn't follow that another country must take over the leadership role. The whole point of the G7/G8/G20 stuff is to come together as a group, as opposed to one country having the reins.

          The only thing worse than the US staying in control would be some other country taking it over. The most desirable outcome for those outside the US (and quite possibly for those in the US in the long run, if it means we give up trying to be the world's policeman) would be for no country to be in charge.

  11. msknight Silver badge
    FAIL

    Chinese entrepeneures

    ... these people are facing rising costs of workforce in China and are looking to go to the US to start up factories. So with china's entrepreneurs wanting to move to the USA... potentially turning the tide of Made in China to Made in America... and Trump is going to shoot himself in the foot ... at knee level.... with a howitzer.

    What a prat.

    1. james 68

      Re: Chinese entrepeneures

      My thoughts exactly - these "entrepreneurs" are starting up a company in America which would provide Americans with jobs and provide both revenue and bragging rights due to Made in America home and export sales. But Trump does not want this? Make America great again my hairy arse, he is dead set on turning America into a third world nation so his buddy Putin can rule the world.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Chinese entrepeneures

        America is already a third world nation - just stop listening to them all telling you its the best place in the world. in many cases when you actually look, they are stuck in the dark ages.

        i wish we could all just leave them behind (build the wall, lock em in), but the UK now seems hell-bent on blindly following.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Chinese entrepeneures....so his buddy Putin can rule the world

        The Russian economy is about as big as Italy's and more of it goes on arms spending. I really think that ruling the world is rather low on Putin's agenda. Getting sanctions lifted is much higher, and the attempt at this by supporting Trump seems to be a failure.

        1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
          Holmes

          Re: Chinese entrepeneures....so his buddy Putin can rule the world

          I guess the Russians have given up on Europe and either wait until sanity prevails and Europe manages to disentangle from the the NATO cancer and have its own non-neoconned politicial outlook or until the who sad confusion crumbles under its own contradictions and rampant immigration.

          Meanwhile they are looking at China. That's where the money is: The Russo-Chinese "Alliance" Explained

        2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

          Re: Chinese entrepeneures....so his buddy Putin can rule the world

          "more of it goes on arms spending. I really think that ruling the world is rather low on Putin's agenda."

          I though spending more on arms and wanting to rule the world were usually closely associated.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Chinese entrepeneures....so his buddy Putin can rule the world

            "I though spending more on arms and wanting to rule the world were usually closely associated."

            If so, you really need to look at the three countries that spend the most on arms (Hint: none of them are Russia.)

        3. DougS Silver badge

          @Voyna i Mor

          Putin's attempt at supporting Trump is only a failure because people found out about it. Had it been successfully kept secret like Trump's crew intended, they could have lifted the sanctions by now and he'd have the perfect excuse of it being part of a "Russian reset" (something every president has attempted since forever)

          While Putin tried to aid Trump's campaign and clearly wanted him to win, the original reason for the election interference had nothing to do with Trump, or with Clinton. He just wants to create chaos in western political systems. He's IMHO more likely to use his hackers against the republicans in 2018 than against democrats, because a divided US government is less likely to agree on anything, which is better for him. If his Trump connections had been kept secret he'd want republicans to win so they could support Trump's agenda, but now he will probably go back to his default strategy of trying to foster dysfunction in the US government.

      3. ecofeco Silver badge

        Re: Chinese entrepeneures

        But Trump does not want this?

        Small, innovative companies are a threat to the established monopolies.

        This is NOT an exaggeration. Think of all the articles just here on El Reg about small companies with great products being bought and then literally shut down AND the product being taken off the market.

        Now extrapolate that to other industries. This literally happens every day.

        The U.S. now has not only one of top three highest income equality societies, but also the LEAST upwardly mobile as well.

        So unless you are well connected and have deep pockets, the U.S. is no longer small business friendly and hasn't been for decades.

  12. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
    Paris Hilton

    Late Obama Age Crazyness

    What a weird rule.

    1) Obtain 250K in taxpayer money (how?)

    2) Move to the FreedomLand to have a good time, sit on sofas, click on iPad things, drive around in Teslas

    3) Stay when the money runs out (?)

    It sounds weirdly like sponsored immigration or maybe just another scheme to push out all that printed fake money into the populace, a thing Obama was popular for.

    Don't see what the fuss is in delaying its implementation.

    America doesn't need even more startups, but companies that are not thriving on monetarist policies.

    passed it on the second-last day of his presidency

    That was when he was going a bit coo-coo in the head and quickly allowing the Security State to "share because they care".

    Also The Madman Maestro vs CNN

  13. Bernard M. Orwell

    He just doesn't want the competition coming in. After all, it'd only take *one* good idea from an entrepreneur and they'd be 100% ahead of him.

  14. Knewbie

    Land Of The Free (TM)

    there, corrected this for you...

  15. bobajob12
    Coat

    Sigh

    Well, at least if you are a Russian, you don't even need to get on a plane. Plenty of good work available at home, and you know that you are helping to change lives in the United States.

  16. Eddy Ito Silver badge
    Meh

    So the complaint is that something that wasn't started isn't starting. Got it, boo! - status quo! - boo!

    Seriously, give it a year, change the name, make it more complicated, a little more broken, and it will become the Donald's next great idea at the whole betterization thing. Just like Trumpcare is getting rid of about 10% of Obamacare and trying to replacing that 10% with a slightly different 5%.

    Plus ça change.

  17. nilfs2
    FAIL

    lol @ xenophobes

    Xenophobe is bad for a country's economy on a globalized world, after building walls around the borders and getting out of all international treaties, how long do you think a country's economy will last? Do you think many jobs will be left after there is no place where a the country's economy can send their products and services without paying high taxes? The US is starting to look a lot like North Korea, perhaps it will be the next hermit nation?

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