back to article S is for Sandbox: The logic behind Microsoft's new lockdown Windows gambit

Microsoft had two strategic problems to address yesterday. Over several years, the PC has been taking its long, sad journey into becoming a niche. But more recently, Google has leapt into the US education market, going from zero to over 50 per cent in three years. Redmond's response is unexpected, but also confusing. Rather …

  1. djstardust Silver badge

    Sorry

    But this is just a mess. Yet again decisions made for future revenue and not what the customer actually wants. Sadly everyone wants to be Apple and are making bizarre decisions to try and get there.

    Typical Microsoft. Pissup Brewery.

    1. Wanting more

      Re: Sorry

      I have actually been to a p**s up organised by Microsoft UK in a brewery. It was TechEd evening event in Amsterdam at the Heieken Experience, the beer flowed well and I enjoyed myself, we got some freebies too (Beer glass, key ring beer mats).

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Sorry

        "Heieken Experience"

        I think he said Brewery, not industial plant. The linkage of Heieken to beer is like that of windows 10 to privacy.

        Mine would be the one filled with Dark Island, but cowheards like me don't get to use icons.

        1. JLV Silver badge
          Thumb Down

          Re: Sorry

          >Heieken to beer is like that of windows 10 to privacy

          Uncalled for.

          Heineken ain't the greatest but it's not a totally bad choice if there's no microbrew around and you need to make do with mass produced/big brand beer.

          There's a fine line between being a beer snob and just being a snob.

          1. Sorry that handle is already taken. Silver badge
            Pint

            Re: Sorry

            If craft/micro/whatever is off the table, I'd sooner drink American Pisswater than Heineken.

            At least the American Pisswater has no flavour.

    2. gv

      Re: Sorry

      "What a long, strange journey it has been getting to the point where Windows was decoupled from the Intel instruction set – and we're not even there yet."

      Usually at various points in this journey, Microsoft will lose interest and veer off on a different (probably incompatible) direction.

  2. hellwig Silver badge

    Windows Store, oh goody!

    So, I was trying to install the Arduino software on a new laptop the other day, and I noticed that there's an Arduino app in the Windows store. Of course, when I click to install that, it tells me there's an internal error and they're sorry. Luckily, I can just download the installer straight from the Arduino site and get on with my life.

    That's not the case with Windows S apparently, and that will be the killer. Nothing kills your products momentum like being told your only mechanism for installing/upgrading apps is experiencing an internal error.

    And my Arduino example isn't just random. I imagine many STEM-focused education programs are taking advantage of boards like the Arduino. Just not, apparently, until Microsoft fixes their issues.

    1. big_D Silver badge

      Re: Windows Store, oh goody!

      It is supposed to be a method of encouraging developers to use the store and to ensure that their programs work in the store. If people are "forced" to use the store and they start complaining to the software developers that their software doesn't work, as opposed to cursing the store and downloading from the site, or developers notice that user numbers slowly drop off, because they aren't in the store, they might start to take the new Windows seriously and start to develop for it properly.

      Microsoft is trying to throw away the insecure, bloated, legacy cruft that is Win32 and get people to move forward to a more modern, slimmer, safer experience.

      At the moment it is difficult, because many devs, especially of big applications, can't be bothered to invest the time and effort needed to get their software working in the store, when they can just continue to make it available on media or for download. That makes a poor experience for users who don't know how to use a PC and don't know how to download and install software; they have grown up on app stores and the "old" way is inconvinient and error prone for them.

      So, MS is at a crossroads and needs to start chipping away at the cruft. I suspect that the Win32 applications will slowly be banished to some sort of container, then they will be sandboxed more and more, so that it is less and less convinient to use old, legacy software and users will be looking to the store apps that work better than the old legacy cruft (UWP is getting better with each new version and getting more feature richt, compare it with the move from DOS to Windows, the DOS applications were more powerful and faster and the Windows applets were mere toys, until Windows got to 3.0 / 3.11 and Excel and Winword came along, then people suddenly saw the "light" and started moving towards Windows and complaining to software makers, when their applications didn't work in Windows' DOS Box or there wasn't a Windows native version available. Eventually those software makers either "got with the programme" or they went under. Where are Ashton Tate, WordStar, WordPerfect Corp., Lotus etc. today?

      1. Barry Rueger Silver badge

        Re: Windows Store, oh goody!

        WordPerfect is still around! I believe mostly with lawyers. Corel Draw too.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        @Big_D - Re: Windows Store, oh goody!

        I don't know about Ashton Tate and WordStar but WordPerfect and especially Lotus were conveniently kicked at the curb by Microsoft anti-competitive actions to make sure they are not here today.

        1. Pompous Git Silver badge

          Re: @Big_D - Windows Store, oh goody!

          "I don't know about Ashton Tate and WordStar but WordPerfect and especially Lotus were conveniently kicked at the curb by Microsoft anti-competitive actions to make sure they are not here today."
          I used to train end-users using Wordstar for Windows, Word Perfect for Windows, Lotus Word Pro and Word for Windows. WfW's competitors were too little, too late.

          Wordstar frequently crashed when running the spellchecker or printing. Word Perfect was also unstable and would often refuse to perform a mail merge. Fixing formatting problems with reveal codes was a step too far for many users, especially when you still couldn't fix the problem. In many respects Lotus was a great product, its modeless dialogs were a wonderful time-saver. Unfortunately, if you changed a template, you changed all the documents that used that template, not just the current and subsequent documents. Thus you ended up with a massive proliferation of templates.

          Word had its faults, but was streets ahead of the competition. BillG recalled attempting to interest the software houses in developing for Windows and being told it was a nine day wonder and not worth the effort. So BillG hired his own developers who had no choice.

          The odd thing here is that MS doesn't seem to know Windows/Office history and seems as determined as Ashton Tate etc to shoot themselves in the foot. So it goes...

        2. LDS Silver badge

          Re: @Big_D - Windows Store, oh goody!

          Partly true, but both Lotus and WordPerfect made their best to shoot in their own feet - while attempting to keep them in too many shoes (DOS, Windows, OS/2). Their ports to Windows and OS/2 were ugly and full of bugs, and not only because MS hid some APIs, but also because they didn't hire nor trained the right people on the new OSes - wasting too much money on keeping alive DOS applications that were doomed, albeit cash cows for a while still.

          Just, don't remind me the ugly Lotus Notes UI which infested other applications as well, brrrrrrrrrr!

          Borland with Quattro was able to deliver a better Windows spreadsheet than Lotus.

          1. Pompous Git Silver badge

            Re: @Big_D - Windows Store, oh goody!

            "Borland with Quattro was able to deliver a better Windows spreadsheet than Lotus."
            And a better DOS word processor than Word, Wordstar, or Word Perfect with Sprint. So it goes...

          2. big_D Silver badge

            Re: @Big_D - Windows Store, oh goody!

            @LDS WordPerfect weren't just DOS, Windows and OS/2, I had it on the Amiga (basically the DOS version in a console window) and I also used it on a VAX running under VMS. I think there was also a UNIX version at some point.

            1. Pompous Git Silver badge

              Re: @Big_D - Windows Store, oh goody!

              "WordPerfect weren't just DOS, Windows and OS/2, I had it on the Amiga "
              I have Corel Word Perfect for Linux that I was given at a MS bash. It was a PITA to install (no installer) and a PITA to use. It listed every font twice; one was the screen font and one the printer font. And yes, there was a *nix version that you had to compile before installing.

      3. bombastic bob Silver badge
        Flame

        Re: Windows Store, oh goody!

        "they might start to take the new Windows seriously and start to develop for it properly."

        well, THIS developer [me] gave up on developing Winders applications, particularly for Win-10-nic. Sure, I'll do *occasional* Win32 applications for 7 (and even 'Ape') users. FYI that's 3/4 of windows machines last I checked.

        But I will *NEVER* do "UWP". *NEVER*

        I don't do ".Not" either. Similar reasons. And one of MY binary executables is typically self-contained, statically linked, etc. No shared lib B.S., no DLL hell, no 3rd party "install all of this too" garbage, no run-time version confusion, yotta yotta. It only uses the Win32 API, as designed. You could copy it to ANY directory and run it, and it would work. Seriously!

        (and if there are optional components installed as DLLs they would be just as independent, needing no external DLLs to load other than the OS itself, and the system would work WITHOUT them since they're 'optional')

        We don't need some B.S. Micro-shaft ABOMINATION like ".Not" or shared MFC or ATL or [worse] UWP to write an application, when 3/4 of the MARKET POTENTIAL is running something that does not *NEED* any of that!!!

        SUMMARY: if I'm right, developers will give UWP (and win-10-nic "app" development) a GIANT MIDDLE FINGER and *require* something NOT "win-10-nic S" to run the thing. And nobody will drink "the new coolaid", and this whole "Win-10-nic S" thing will *JUST* *DIE* (with snarky laughter all around).

        1. This post has been deleted by its author

        2. Anonymous Coward
          WTF?

          Re: Windows Store, oh goody!

          The way you scatter caps around must make your code hell to read.

        3. Someone Else Silver badge
          Go

          Re: Windows Store, oh goody!

          I just upvoted bombastic bob. What's next, Republicans and Democrats living and working together?

      4. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Windows Store, oh goody!

        "At the moment it is difficult, because many devs, especially of big applications, can't be bothered to invest the time and effort needed to get their software working in the store, when they can just continue to make it available on media or for download"

        That, and the fact developers who invested time and effort in previous attempts at uwp apps for windows phone etc all had shifting sand as a framework / platform. "Lets break compatibility every 6-12 months - oh, I wonder why nobody is developing for our app store anymore."

      5. Someone Else Silver badge
        WTF?

        @big_D -- Re: Windows Store, oh goody!

        That makes a poor experience for users who don't know how to use a PC and don't know how to download and install software [...]

        As a developer of SW that runs on a PC, anybody that "doesn't know how to use a PC and doesn't know how to download and install software" wouldn't be one of my customers, anyway.

        How stupid does someone have to be?

        Well, we on this side of the Pond elected Trump, and you on the other side of the Pond are about to (re?) elect May, so I guess that question might not be rhetorical.

        1. big_D Silver badge

          Re: @big_D -- Windows Store, oh goody!

          @Someone Else, when I met my wife, she didn't know how to install software, she got a friend to "put the web" on her PC (Firefox) and "that Skype thing". When we were together, I had to set up her PC for her (Windows 7).

          When Windows 8 came along, I shrugged and thought "why not, it can't be worse," and lo-and-behold, after 20 minutes playing with Windows 8, she proudly came down stairs and exclaimed, that she had installed a clock app!

          1. Pompous Git Silver badge

            Re: @big_D -- Windows Store, oh goody!

            "when I met my wife, she didn't know how to install software"
            When I met my ex-fiancée, neither of us knew how to install software ;-) Today, she still only has the most rudimentary grasp of how to use a PC and she's been using one at work since the days of the Apple IIe. When I try to explain things she interrupts and says: "But I want to do x. I don't want to know about y or z." Frustrating, but I love her anyway :-)

            1. DropBear Silver badge

              Re: @big_D -- Windows Store, oh goody!

              "But I want to do x. I don't want to know about y or z."

              Stock reply: "have you ever wanted to live in a foundation? If not, does that make them optional in a house?"

        2. hplasm Silver badge
          Holmes

          Re: @big_D -- Windows Store, oh goody!

          "How stupid does someone have to be?"

          So that's what the 'S' is for!

  3. Christian Berger Silver badge

    It's fairly pointless...

    ...as most windows applications are deeply rooted within old Win32 code and components that will never be able to convert to UWP or anything, not only because nobody has the source code. The big strength of Windows has always been that it was able to run old software.

    1. LDS Silver badge

      Re: It's fairly pointless...

      It's really fairly pointless when people, despite proper information are just a click away, don't bother to look for them.

      Desktop Bridge allows for almost any Win32 application to be repackaged for the store. They are still Win32 application accessing the Win32 API, and are not "full" UWP applications (they can't run on ARM, or access the full UWP APIs). Application repackaged this way are sandboxed - i.e. registry and some file operations are redirected to per application storage. Most application that don't attempt "strange" operations should work (not your registry cleaner app, of course).

      See https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/bridges/desktop.

      How many will bother to convert their Win32 applications to full UWP applications is yet to see - especially since MS killed its mobile platform there's very little incentive for it.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: It's fairly pointless...

        Desktop Bridge allows for almost any Win32 application to be taxed by microsoft at rate of 30%. FTFY

        1. LDS Silver badge

          "to be taxed by microsoft at rate of 30%"

          Just like any other store - and like the others, unless the app is free.

          So, why this is a problem if it is a MS store, and not if it is an Apple or Google store?

          I don't like stores as well, and I stay away from iOS and Android as well.

          1. Richard Plinston Silver badge

            Re: "to be taxed by microsoft at rate of 30%"

            > Just like any other store - and like the others, unless the app is free.

            Maybe, but MS will control which apps are allowed in and which are not. Will there be Firefox or Chome, what about LibreOffice, GIMP, Digikam ?

            > So, why this is a problem if it is a MS store, and not if it is an Apple or Google store?

            This move is a revenue grab. Currently OEMs and retailers sell Office and much software from other vendors and collect the revenue and make a profit, and even collect subsidies for shovelware. MS want that revenue and profit. I would assume that apps loaded from the store is linked to the user's account so pre-loading the PC by the OEM would not be allowed, or perhaps the OEMs would not get a discount on the store prices.

            Apple does not have OEMs so it is not stealing some other companies revenue, and it is not the only source of software for OS-X. Google does not restrict software sales to its own store, there are many other sources. Google also applies much less control over the software available - there are many Microsoft titles in the play store.

            It is likely that even the $50 'tick the box' charge will be full revenue to MS only and not the OEMs. How soon will that option disappear ?

            1. LDS Silver badge

              "but MS will control which apps are allowed"

              Again, where's the difference with the Apple and Google store? Do they allow any application? And yet they've been so successful that now MS of course wants to make money the same way. How many *billions* the App Store brought to Apple the last quarter?

              "Will there be Firefox or Chome, what about LibreOffice, GIMP, Digikam"

              Maybe you missed the EU ruling about IE? How MS could forbid different browsers in Windows, after that? While LibreOffice could be somewhat a competitor of Office (but again, would it risk an antitrust issue?), GIMP is a competitor of what, from MS? Do you believe Adobe would ask MS to block GIMP or DigiKam for the "great danger" (LOL!) they pose to Photoshop and Lightroom?

              "This move is a revenue grab"

              Sure, what else? It worked so well for Apple and Google revenues, should MS just stay at the Windows and look at someone's else revenues?

              "Apple does not have OEMs so it is not stealing some other companies revenue, and it is not the only source of software for OS-X"

              Exactly, Apple always had a much tighter grip on its platform to avoid to share the revenues with anybody else. Now. with less need to move boxes around, cutting off the intermediaries is easier, and bring in more revenues. Yes, it's because the money, Are you surprised? On what enormous pile of cash is Apple sitting on? Do you believe others don't want to try to get that too?

              Was ever Microsoft the sole source of software for Windows?? Actually, most of the applications I run are not from Microsoft, and that's the reason Windows became so successful.

              "Google also applies much less control over the software available - there are many Microsoft titles in the play store"

              Just like there is a lot of Google software running on Windows? Up to Chrome installing like a malware when a users has no admin rights? Google is mostly an ad seller and data slurping business, user software is just what it needs to support its main business. And again, it was so successful MS wants that too, so it bent Windows in that direction.

              Really, I can't understand these double standards, the same thing made by MS is evil, made by Google or Apple is holy.

              I hated stores from the beginning, and I don't really care from what they come from. And I hate spyware, wherever it sends data to. But I'm not surprised MS is trying to move towards where money actually looks to be - especially because of gullible users worshipping Apple and Google.

              1. Pompous Git Silver badge

                Re: "but MS will control which apps are allowed"

                "most of the applications I run are not from Microsoft, and that's the reason Windows became so successful"
                Précisément...

              2. Richard Plinston Silver badge

                Re: "but MS will control which apps are allowed"

                > Google store? Do they allow any application?

                Obviously they filter for malware, but they don't ban competitors like Microsoft does. You can get MS Office in the play store - for free.

                > How MS could forbid different browsers in Windows, after that? While LibreOffice could be somewhat a competitor of Office (but again, would it risk an antitrust issue?),

                MS don't 'forbid' other browsers from Windows - buy the $49 pro and get whatever browsers you want - but there aren't other browsers available for 10S.

                LibreOffice is free. Pay MS $49 to be able to get it, or buy MS Office even if you only want to do simple tasks. It is about the money.

                > GIMP is a competitor of what, from MS? Do you believe Adobe would ask MS to block GIMP or DigiKam

                Does MS not have a paint program or a photo library with editor ?

                > Just like there is a lot of Google software running on Windows?

                Yes there is, but it seems that there won't be _any_ running on 10S, which is exactly the point of this OS version.

              3. Richard Plinston Silver badge

                Re: "but MS will control which apps are allowed"

                > DigiKam for the "great danger" (LOL!) they pose

                Apparently if you use the Windows 10 photo gallery it slups all the photos up to OneDrive. If you want to only have them locally held then a different program is required: Digikam (which is a photo organizer with a great editor) will not push them to any cloud.

      2. bombastic bob Silver badge
        Flame

        Re: It's fairly pointless...

        "Desktop Bridge allows for almost any Win32 application to be repackaged for the store."

        Fine. Let Micro-shaft do it FOR us. I'm not going to bother. win-10-nic is all 2D FLATSO FLUGLY and I don't want MY applications "looking like that". bleah.

        And if Microshaft is STUPID enough to go through with "banning" Win32 applications from *THEIIR* subscription-based OS [looking into the future...] then that's THEIR market-fail, and I'll just continue working on cross-platform development so that Linux users will have nice native applications to run using the SAME SOURCE CODE.

        /me wonders if a good cross-platform development kit would convince people to thumb their noses at UWP...

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    S is for Subsidised

    They are happy to give away the Windows licence for free if they know the only apps you run are those sold through the App Store - since they will get 30% of the purchase price.

    Otherwise, if you want to write and run your own programs, or (heaven forbid) programs bought directly from someone else, then you need to pay the $50 fee for use of the Windows platform.

    1. LDS Silver badge

      Re: S is for Subsidised

      It will be interesting to see if they sell the Surface Laptop with only Windows S installed and ask $50 to someone who probably just has paid $1500-2000 for a specced one, and find it has to shell out some more money if he's going to install the application he already own, and has no will to re-buy them....

      If so, I guess Nadella has replaced the whole marketing department with orangutans...

      1. AMBxx Silver badge

        Re: S is for Subsidised

        Aren't school licences for Windows already heavily subsidised? Is this really any cheaper?

        1. big_D Silver badge

          Re: S is for Subsidised

          This isn't just for schools.

          MS has built some tools for education around Windows 10 S, but Windows 10 S isn't just for education, it will be seen on more and more devices for "normal" users as well, at least that is what MS said the aim was yesterday.

          This is a move to try and show developers that they need to start looking to the future.

          1. LDS Silver badge

            "Windows 10 S isn't just for education, it will be seen on more and more devices"

            If so, I bet MS will soon discover how risky is to remove features from an established "ecosystem". It worked on smartphones because it was a new ecosystem, and the old one had less features - and still, it's a limited one for simple tasks. Chromebooks filled a niche for cheap devices for limited needs.

            Aiming a $1000+ laptop at the same segment looks quite silly - not everybody spend such a sum just to show off, while using it only to update his or her facebook profile.

            1. big_D Silver badge

              Re: "Windows 10 S isn't just for education, it will be seen on more and more devices"

              @LDS the same argument goes for the Chromebook Pixel. That was a $1500 Chromebook and some ChromeOS users adored it and lament that they can't buy new ones.

              There were a plethora of cheap-and-cheerful models released at the education sector ($189 and up) and MS said they are expecting more 10 S based devices to appear in the middle ground over the coming year.

      2. Terry 6 Silver badge

        Re: S is for Subsidised

        Amazon have a small scale version of this scam. Buy a Fire tablet and they'll throw irritating ads at you until you fork over an extra fiver that you didn't want to pay when you bought the thing.

    2. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

      Re: S is for Subsidised

      Nope.

      S is for Sucks. This version obviously sucks even more than regular Windows 10.

      S is for Sod Off, I'm not using that POS

      There are plenty more far ruder ones as well.

      Microsoft do seem to be flailing around trying to get a product that will fly off the shelves.

      Apple shells 50+M phones and is reconed to have had a bad quarter. (IMHO, a bad quarter would be when they only sell 30M rather than the estimated 50+M)

      Surface revenues declined drastically yet they still think they can make it big with this new Shiny-shiny locked down subscription generating spyware laden 'thing'?

      Well, given that it is MS the will make some money but not the billions they hope for.

      You have to give MS some credit though. They keep on trying but seem to end up with Kin/Zune moments all the time.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Why S == ?

        Considering the company, trying to evaluate S into truthful a condition needs a !. Besides all the current evals fail, here is one that doesn't...

        'S' != 'Sorry (we keep fucking you)'

  5. Steve Hersey

    Nothing to see here, run away very fast.

    So, a notorious monopolist that screws its customers at every opportunity is offering a new jail cell -- I mean, computing experience -- and wants the sheeple to step inside? No, thanks, I'll wait until the hardware has been jailbroken and I can load Ubuntu onto a unit bought from the reminder bin.

    I only tolerate Windows because of applications that run on no other platform. These days, that no longer even includes software development environments OR office apps; all the good stuff has versions for Linux. LibreOffice on Linux is amazingly useful. I can only see the Windows S platform being used for sacrificial computing devices to be issued to folks traveling internationally and to run Office apps for road warriors, never for any serious work that can be done on any other OS.

  6. King Jack
    Big Brother

    S is for Spyware

    I take it this phones home everything you do too? And idiots will still flock to it.

    1. Dave 126 Silver badge

      Re: S is for Spyware

      Idiots yes, but also anyone who requires some specific 3rd party applications not available on non-Windows platforms - so that includes a good many engineers at present. Not a hard concept to grasp.

      And are you sure that 'idiots will flock to it'? I'd have thought these 'idiots' that concern you just use what comes installed on the machine they buy.

      Windows S phones home just as Windows Pro does - as the article notes, there is little difference between the two other than a few settings.

      (Curious observation - my stock Android keyboard just 'auto-corrected' Windows S to Windows Server)

      1. LDS Silver badge

        Re: S is for Spyware

        The Education version of Windows, together the Enterprise, are those that spy less (for obvious legal fears). Probably enabling Pro features also enable the pro spyware ones.

      2. big_D Silver badge

        Re: S is for Spyware

        They phone home, just like iOS, OS X, ChromeOS and Android (well, except you have more fine control over what is shared, compared to Android and ChromeOS).

      3. Ropewash

        Re: S is for Spyware

        @Dave 126

        You know... Last time I browsed the Windows store it did not seem to have autoCAD available as a UWP application. I highly doubt there's any CAD/CAM, circuit design or, in fact, ANY engineering or manufacturing software of any sort on the store.

        So what "third party applications" are these "engineers" using that the S version of Win10 could possibly offer them? A dictionary? Maybe a new alarm clock? Do they do their design work solely within the world of Minecraft?

        Why wouldn't these folks just buy a real windows machine to actually get work done on?

        I'm certainly no engineer, but I still prefer Win7 on a full-fat desktop complete with a vidcard you could brew coffee on and an uncanny ability to run any Windows software from any source.

        1. big_D Silver badge

          Re: S is for Spyware

          As someone who has to deal with Autodesk installations on a daily basis, I can say, that the sooner they get their PoS into the Store and containerized the better.

          Having to write reams of Powershell code to get it configured properly is a pain.

  7. Your alien overlord - fear me

    When the sandbox gets pissed on (by ChromeOS etc), will this result in a mud fight?

  8. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    At that point the game changes again with low-cost, ARM-based laptops and tablets "doing Windows" reasonably well.

    What does "reasonably well" mean in terms of "doing Windows"?

  9. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    Would one be able to build a new program and run in within this locked down environment? If not that excludes it from being used in any trendy coding classes.

    Oops. I forgot. Coding classes are writing bits of HTML these days. That's what all the celebs and BBC tech correspondents do in coding classes so it must be right.

  10. bombastic bob Silver badge
    Devil

    the PC has been taking its long, sad journey into becoming a niche???

    If Micro-shaft based its market strategy on this, for this 'S' product (which stands for a word that rhymes with 'spit' and 'quit') then they are COMPLETELY out of touch with reality!

    The PC market for 'new sales' does NOT reflect usage. How many times must this be explained?

    People aren't buying new PCs, or replacement PCs, as they used to for the following reasons:

    a) they like what they have (windows 7 for example)

    b) they don't like what they see (win-10-nic, not enough perceived "better" performance)

    c) they're concerned that the software they purchased, which runs fine on the existing computer, won't work on "the new one"

    d) depressed economies [this should be rectified soon]

    [there may be other reasons, but I think these are the main ones]

    So when you see net statistics that show that HALF of the computers already out there are "old machines", and they're NOT being "up"graded to a Win-10-nic box [as an example], then the problem isn't that there is a DECLINE IN PC USAGE.

    the problem is that NEW PCs are NOT BEING PURCHASED like they used to be. For the reasons I already stated.

    Micro-shaft could have produced an OS that people would buy a new PC to get, or purchase an upgrade to get. Instead, they went with Win-10-nic. NOW, they put LIPSTICK on the NON-OINKY END of the pig, with this 'S' {profanity}.

    And they're doing it on PREMIUM hardware, like something a Mac user would pay for?

    HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!

    what a bunch of MAROONS!

  11. ForthIsNotDead

    S is for S**T

    I'm seriously done with Micro$haft.

    I now run Linux with Windows 7 in an Oracle VirtualBox VM for the (precisely one) application that I own and paid a shit-ton for (Siemens PLC Development Software).

    The people at the top of Micro$haft really are the most inept turds ever to float to the top of the toilet bowl.

    As a company, they are done. It might be a long tail, but they're done. They are going to be the business OS vendor of choice, and unknown anywhere else, with the possible exception of the Xbox video game thingy that I can't be arsed with.

    Short Micro$haft.

  12. Pirate Dave
    Pirate

    That picture

    I admit, I haven't seen Win10 yet, but the pic with that guy's tweet about changing the setting looks a lot like an OSX screen. Has Microsoft really copied Apple that closely?

    1. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

      Re: That picture

      They might have started out like they were copying MacOS but things went awry like a government IT project.

      The end result is again like HMG IT projects, sort of works but does things you don't really need while not doing things you need in a way that you, the user can understand.

    2. David Lawton

      Re: That picture

      Not quite copied them but close, at least on MacOS with Gate Keeper turned on like that, you can just right click an app and select open, then press the open again in the dialog box to run it to confirm you do trust this app and it will load. Which is the correct way to do it, i see a lot of bad guides on the internet telling people to just turn it off hence the run from anywhere option was removed in the latest MacOS and is missing in the screen shot to stop this bad practice.

      On Windows 10 S, if its not from the App Store it just won't ever run. The only people i see Windows 10 S is any use for is those who use an iPad instead of a Windows PC, and even then there is a reason they got the iPad.

      1. Pompous Git Silver badge

        Re: That picture

        "on MacOS with Gate Keeper turned on like that, you can just right click an app and select open"
        How does clicking on the right hand side of an Apple mouse do that? Every Mac I've used has a single button mouse as per Steve Jobs' decree..

  13. Cari

    "Allow your Apple Watch to unlock your Mac"

    It's visible from a mobile phone display without zooming in... That is definitely not a screenshot of a Windows .. window.

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    It's crippleware.

    How many people are going to fall for this con then find out that they need to shell out $ to get it to run regular w32s. They'll be plenty of angry Grandparents and such thinking they've bought a budget windows device for their loved ones only to find out that more cash is required for it to function properly.

    S is for Shakedown.

  15. Herby Silver badge

    Should be called "Windows LL"

    For "Loss Leader". Get the unit sold, no matter what the cost. Kinda like selling a home computer for $49.99 retail, and offering a $50.00 rebate check (See Texas Instruments). We want market share, no matter what the cost.

    For reference, see razor blades/razor for costing.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Should be called "Windows LL"

      No, it's more like selling you a washing machine with half the programs disabled then you have to pay extra to get the other programs, which are already there but it's just a flick of the manufacturers control switch to let you have them. As I said before, crippleware.

      MS will no doubt give the licence to the OEM for free and the end user ends up paying the OEM licence for full windows if they want it, it's just cost shuffling a la Ryanair and making you think that you have a cheap flight until you get to the checkout after the extras have been added.

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Only in Microsoft's world

    Can the U for universal, not mean universal...

    Windows 10 is bad joke, Microsoft are a bad joke. 10s is a Chromebook wannabe, with none of the Chromebook advantages and most of the reasons why nobody really wants windows 10 (even people that got it free seem to regret it)

  17. Mikel

    Cue weeping

    The APIs that are the festival of security horrors Windows users have enjoyed for 30 years are still in there. So no, it's not any more secure.

  18. Walter Bishop Silver badge
    Terminator

    Windows decoupling from the Intel instruction set

    "Over several years, the PC has been taking its long, sad journey into becoming a niche .. What a long, strange journey it has been getting to the point where Windows was decoupled from the Intel instruction set – and we're not even there yet."

    Possibly MS is treading water on the PC until the entire ms ecosystem moves to ms Hardware on the ms Cloud, at which point Intel and the OEMs will surly be decoupled and rendered nich players.

  19. beyondyourfrontdoor

    Of course...

    I think you're missing the easy answer here... MS is looking at the billions that Apple is making post-device sale and wanting in on the action. Everyone knew that the micro-transaction would lead the way to monetizing content... but somehow Apple got us to transition from 99 cent songs (a feat in itself) to 99 cent apps...

    OS updates are meaningless to most consumers these days... and Apple again... has taken that away by making everything free. MS's huge cash cow, the Windows / Office upgrade, has run its course.

  20. Alistair Silver badge
    Coat

    Windows Store.

    Hmmm.

    It *is* spring, and these are getting a bit old. I suppose I should get to measuring my windows to get them replaced.....

  21. Charlie Clark Silver badge

    Surface Notebook vs MacBook

    This turns out to be a superb premium device targeting the vacancy left by Apple, which inexplicably won't be updating its ageing Air line.

    I don't think I can agree with this. Apple has essentially replaced the Air with the MacBook which is even lighter. Not enough oomph for me but I can imagine them being popular with people who want the lightest machine out there and I know a couple of people who are very happy with them.

    The Windows S will just piss off people who like the hardware but want more control of the device. This is an unnecessary, if illusory, hurdle that doesn't augur well.

POST COMMENT House rules

Not a member of The Register? Create a new account here.

  • Enter your comment

  • Add an icon

Anonymous cowards cannot choose their icon

Biting the hand that feeds IT © 1998–2019