back to article Don't install our buggy Windows 10 Creators Update, begs Microsoft

Microsoft has urged non-tech-savvy people – or anyone who just wants a stable computer – to not download and install this year's biggest revision to Windows by hand. And that's because it may well bork your machine. It's been two weeks since Microsoft made its Creators Update available, and we were previously warned it will be …

  1. djstardust

    Another day

    another M$ screw up.

    Jesus wept.

    1. Snark

      Re: Another day

      Well, since I'm trying ot be positive today, so expecting lots of downvotes.

      MS got lots of people to beta-test it, but as is the like it was us techies who did we tend not to have the older hardware. MS didn't force it on everyone the same time causing massive chaos this time round, but were releasing it in stages so they could see if there were any problems. MS has seen there were problems and has put a halt to it interested people foisting the problems on themselves, til they come up with a game plan.

      That sounds kind of realistic and a reasonable response, rather than denying there is any problem or blaming it on users to me. I prefer it to having it shoved down my throat and told to wait whilst they decide what to do... and wait... and wait...

      1. hellwig Silver badge

        Re: Another day

        I won't down vote you, but if this was Microsoft's plan, they should have let someone else know about it.

        Hoisting the update on a (random?) selection of users, and seeing if it works, doesn't really help those poor sods that got a borked PC as a result.

        You're basically saying "Thanks Microsoft for screwing other people over before you screwed me over".

        By your reasoning, if anything, Microsoft SHOULD encourage more people to install it manually. If Microsoft can't find enough of these issues on their own, they should have people willing to try out the update do so. Don't break grandma's computer because she left automatic updates on, but if someone with enough knowledge to manually download and run the update wants to do so, why not let them?

        Choice is always preferable to mandate, especially when Microsoft's near-mandate of auto-updates for Windows 10 already broke some people's PCs. Which brings up another point. Why is Microsoft the only one who gets to say "We don't trust this update, don't install it yet?" Many IT professionals and knowledgeable computer users want to do the same, and Microsoft told them "nope". Now this big update is broken, and you have to have a lot of people going "I told you so".

        1. Updraft102 Silver badge

          Re: Another day

          "Hoisting the update on a (random?) selection of users, and seeing if it works, doesn't really help those poor sods that got a borked PC as a result."

          Well, no, but MS was never interested in helping them in the first place. It's pretty evident that the real customers are the enterprise users on CBB-- they get to wait until the cattle have cleared the minefield before setting foot on it, to continue the analogy in the article. The only reason MS is even concerned about which cattle get to go into the minefield first is, I am sure, the worry that they could run out of cattle before the way is clear. They're expendable, but still a finite resource.

          No part of this Windows 10 saga has ever been about helping the poor sods who are using non-enterprise Windows. That includes the free upgrade, which served its purpose quite well: it gave MS the ability to force Windows 10 on customers, and that in turn gave them enough victims to be able to claim that Windows 10 is the fastest-growing Windows ever. That, in turn, is part of Microsoft's strategy of wearing down the holdouts by making Windows 10 seem inevitable... "the last version of Windows ever" is nothing more than the Microsoft way of saying "resistance is futile."

          1. Pompous Git Silver badge

            Re: Another day

            ""the last version of Windows ever" is nothing more than the Microsoft way of saying "resistance is futile.""
            As usual MS have this wrong. Resistance is not futile. Having tested w8 and w10 and decided that both were a crock of shit, I concluded that w7 was my last windows ever. If they dick the CPUs to stymie that, I will just continue run w7 in a VM on Linux.

            Where's the pass the popcorn icon when you need it? [Though I might prefer a Smith's Crisps icon]

        2. Snark

          Re: Another day

          Oh believe me. I am as pissed about the forced day to day patching as everyone. I got hit by that complete balls up of a DHCP patch when it came out and it took ages for them to come around to "we fucked up, we'll fix it sometime". It's crap, its dangerous and there is bugger all information about whats happening to your PC, let alone any control. Let me subscribe to fast channel security fixes and then choose other updates when I need to and know something is broken. Yeah security fixes may break stuff, but on my main PC I'd quite like them and have a less "always connected" one on a slower chain for my backup.

          Maybe I'm just easily pleased at any company doing anything which resembles heading into a more proactive way of doing things, despite past sins ;-). If this gives them less headaches and better reaction, maybe corporate droids might decide its not a bad thing after all.

        3. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Another day

          Everyone that took a free update to win10 is a beta tester. It's common knowledge, the fact you can't disable or opt out of updates is a pretty big clue.

          If you can let the 250 paying windows 10 customers know when it's ready that would be great

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Windows

            Re: Another day

            The sad and sorry truth about that is that I've never hesitated, in the past, about laying down cash for the top of the line in both desktops and servers. With all the upheaval at Microsoft, I stopped doing that. Seriously glad I've parted ways since. I am concerned about people, such as one that's bedridden and just upgraded to, you guessed it, Broadcom Bluetooth. His computer is his life-line. He's got a caution but I have to wonder how many people in similar conditions end up guinea pigs when it's most definitely not appropriate.

            [Same boat here, relatively. Sensibly, my one Windows box has, and will remain, 8.1U1. I 'm bedridden today as well,so the rest of his free upgrades have to wait a bit.]

        4. stever320

          Re: Another day

          The only people that got the update from win update where those that sort it out. They were not unsuspecting "updaters".

          And it is nowhere near as bad as you make out.

          I have updated manually 15 PC's. with motherboards dating back up to 9 years.

          Desktops posed no problems whatsoever.

          Notebooks had some issues as they have many more onboard features that need many more drivers.

          However even the oldest unit circa 2009 is working fine. One that dated from 2011 had some issues however that was in part an issue with the hardware already known to me, to which windows 10 even offered a generic drivers that work the hardware to 90%. Each update 10/Anniversary/Creators has to offer the same set to which they do once the OS is running.

          Hats off to Hardware vendors and Microsoft for giving life to what is very old equipment.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Another day

            @steve320 "Hats off to Hardware vendors and Microsoft for giving life to what is very old equipment."

            Agreed. One nice thing about Win 10 is you can run a machine with as little as 1 GB of ram on it fairly well. Machines that were worthless after about Vista can be given a new life.

            1. bobbear

              Re: Another day

              "Agreed. One nice thing about Win 10 is you can run a machine with as little as 1 GB of ram on it fairly well. Machines that were worthless after about Vista can be given a new life."

              I expect you've been 'auto-downvoted' by people who've never tried installing W10 on an old machine. I tried it on an old (& worthless!), Fujitsu Siemens Amilo with 1Gb of RAM which had had XP on it and was slow as a lame dog and I was pleasantly surprised that it made a usable machine out of it again, so have an upvote for accuracy.. I expect it's hardware dependent mind you, but it worked on mine.

            2. nijam

              Re: Another day

              > Machines that were worthless after about Vista can be given a new life.

              Yes, they were all upgraded to Linux.

              (sorry, couldn't resist.)

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: Another day

                @nijam - "> Machines that were worthless after about Vista can be given a new life."

                "Yes, they were all upgraded to Linux."

                Absolutely. Before Windows 10, that was really the only choice. Nice to be able to give someone an old computer that they can run their beloved MS Office on now, however.

                1. Kiwi Silver badge
                  Trollface

                  Re: Another day

                  Absolutely. Before Windows 10, that was really the only choice. Nice to be able to give someone an old computer that they can run their beloved MS Office on now, however.

                  You mean that horrid behind-the-times thing with the eye-killing UI that supposedly Absolutely. Before Windows 10, that was really the only choice. Nice to be able to give someone an old computer that they can run their beloved MS Office on now, however.in a browser these days?

                  Last time I tried to install office on Linux was IIRC the 2010 version (before the subscription models), it installed at least as quick and easy as with Windows (maybe faster and easier but that could be my bias playing up). Certainly pissed off the "you can't install this stuff on Linux, it's impossible" guy I did it just to show him how quick and easy it was to do so. I haven't tried the lastest MS trashoffering but then why would one use that? There's much better much more suited to my needs.

            3. swm Silver badge

              Re: Another day

              "One nice thing about Win 10 is you can run a machine with as little as 1 GB of ram on it fairly well."

              I run ubuntu on a 1/2 GB machine and it runs quite nicely. (CP/M ran on 64KB but didn't do a lot.)

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Another day

        Let's all agree to not vote either way in this section today, as it doesn't really matter compared to needs of the great custard anyway. I just find it very comical that whilst kicking Win10 out the door, people, or cows, were herded into the update through a deceitful dialog box; where clicking go away schedules an update anyway. And now; "well, wait, we're not ready, but we're not pulling the code, just asking people not to download it manually." It's funny watching what people will put up with to get their windows on. There were no such warnings for the first release, so this is a new development, so to speak. I'm waiting to see what the first stable release brings, but these beta tests disguised as GA are hilarious! 8^)

      3. Not also known as SC

        Re: Another day

        "MS didn't force it on everyone the same time causing massive chaos this time round, but were releasing it in stages"

        Trouble is all as I've found out tonight, they are forcing the update onto machines. They may not be doing all users at once but once your machine is selected there seems to be no way of preventing the upgrade.

        1. Alan Sharkey

          Re: Another day

          On mine it keeps asking me to verify settings. I keep clicking "later". So far, it hasn;t upgraded.

          1. Terry 6 Silver badge

            Re: Another day

            I read somewhere that this review settings page is the one and only chance you get to protect as much privacy as it will let you, all in one place. After that it's a mishmash of settings locations ( worse than the current version!).

            So I'm telling people to delay letting it do the update until they have time to go through that properly.

            And frankly, since I see no advantage to this update for anyone who doesn't want to wear 3d goggles - it can wait as long as they damn well want.

        2. Drefsab_UK

          Re: Another day

          Not true, my pc prompted to review privacy settings (the start of the creators update process). I closed it and then disabled the creators edition update notification

          (https://support.microsoft.com/en-gb/help/4019198/how-to-disable-windows-creators-update-notice-for-users)

          I'm running some software that has been seen to break on creators edition. Some poor sods took the update and everyone of them broke and complained on the forums. Knowing this I said hell no to the update.

          Just one more way MS is screwing us with windows 10.

        3. h4rm0ny

          Re: Another day

          >>"They may not be doing all users at once but once your machine is selected there seems to be no way of preventing the upgrade.

          Which I'd actually be okay with if it were just an update to performance, security fixes, etc. But they should have no power to force functionality changes onto a product that I have already bought.

      4. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Another day

        I welcome the delay very much, take as long as you need to fix it MS.

        Hopefully, while at it they will realise that some serious unidentified problems have been buried away deep inside core components for two years, affecting previous Win 10 releases as well ... let's say maybe the Forced Updates and Data Collection components for example. Then they might have to roll out an emergency patch to disable those components while they spend a couple of years fixing everything.

        And we would have the burden of manually approving or rejecting update in the meantime as we saw fit. I'm not sure but I think I could just about cope.

        Hey I can dream right?

        1. nijam

          Re: Another day

          > I welcome the delay very much, take as long as you need to fix it MS.

          Heat death of the universe would be fine by me too.

      5. Alumoi

        Re: Another day

        MS got lots of people to beta-test it ... were releasing it in stages so they could see if there were any problems.

        So people who paid for their software are now unpaid beta testers, right?

      6. jelabarre59 Silver badge

        Re: Another day

        MS got lots of people to beta-test it, but as is the like it was us techies who did we tend not to have the older hardware.

        Actually, I had been running the "Technical Preview" on an old beater HP DV6700 since late 2014 (I'm not running it on my HW I use for doing REAL work). I would power it up every 5-10 days and check for updates, run my standard set of (mostly open-source) applications on it, etc. Only reason I don't now is it won't stay powered up anymore (maybe the power board, perhaps the power-port, hasn't been a priority to fix it).

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Another day

      One of our laptops was updated to it last week. Not a big deal. Sound card wasn't working right - only about 50% sound - had to re-install the IDT sound driver over the MS generic that the Creator Update put in there. Wifi driver had to be re-installed - but this Intel wifi driver has had to be re-installed so many times I lost count. Par for the course.

      Main thing is I don't see anything new with this update. Edge browser is interminably slow by the way, but it's always been that way. Is that just because it's being run with an ad blocker? I thought it was supposed to be built for "speed".

      1. Blank Reg

        Re: Another day

        I'm running the creator update and Edge right now on a Dell e7440, not at all the latest and greatest of machines. It's been flawless, and Edge with no ad blocker runs plenty fast, faster than the resource hog that Chrome has become. I've installed the creator update to a 6 month old high end desktop with all the bells and whistle, and a 5 year old desktop and neither had any issues.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Another day

          Thanks, my problem with Edge must be the ad blocker then.

          I agree with you on Chrome. I'm coming back around to loving Firefox again the past few months, after Chrome ate too many of my resources. Not sure why Chrome has to be such a hog these days.

          1. Terry 6 Silver badge

            Re: Another day

            Pale Moon?

      2. macjules Silver badge

        Re: Another day

        I thought it was supposed to be built for "speed".

        No, Safari was the one 'built for speed', that now has all the speed of a Southern train on a good day. Edge is touted as "a lightweight web browser with a layout engine built around web standards".

    3. LDS Silver badge

      Re: Another day

      No, it's not a screw up, it's really how Windows 10 is designed to work:

      1) Roll out the update to a chosen (or random?) subset of machine

      2) See what works and what borks

      3) Fix it

      4) Go to 1 until telemetry says borked machine are a number small enough

      5) Release to enterprise customers.

      This is really the whole new development model of Windows 10. Tests happens on cattle users systems. If you want to reduce the chance of getting a borked system, don't be greed and attempt to install the latest, you just increase the risk of running untested or less tested code. If by chance your system is one of the early test bed, damn Brahma, Shiva and Vishnu (or any other deity of your choice, but for obvious reasons they may be the more useful...)

    4. MyffyW Silver badge

      Don't install our buggy Windows 10 Creators Update

      No problem, I wasn't going to anyway, but thanks for the warning....

      sudo apt-get update

      sudo apt-get upgrade

    5. Gis Bun

      Re: Another day

      So why do you use their software then? We see how much you like them if you use "M$" instead of "MS".

    6. birminghamboy

      ALL FILES WIPED

      Yes, thanks to this update all my game progress, photos and server files from the last 3 years had been wiped and I am never getting it back.

      :D

  2. Not also known as SC
    Unhappy

    How do you abort the update?

    My PC initiated the update this evening. A pop up appeared which gave me the option of reviewing my privacy settings now or later after I upgraded (that's how I read it anyway). The 'pop up' blurred the rest of the screen and had no obvious method of closing it apart from the two buttons. There was no way to do anything else on the PC. As I was in the middle of something important I was just a little pissed about this because I needed to get back to what I was doing.

    Am I now doomed to be updated to the creator's edition or can I still abort it?

    1. King Jack
      Trollface

      Re: How do you abort the update?

      Trying so hard not to laugh.

      1. Not also known as SC

        Re: How do you abort the update?

        @King Jack

        I'm up-voting your comment because I appreciate the sentiment. Just a bit of a bugger that it's my machine and not someone else's...

    2. Bob Camp

      Re: How do you abort the update?

      You're fine. I'm running the Creators Update without any issues so far. I just let the PC do its own thing. I didn't even notice it had happened until I expanded my taskbar icons and there was a Window Defender icon with a green checkmark in its lower-right corner.

      Microsoft just doesn't want people to go get it and force the update manually. If the update is happening on your PC without any prodding by you, it means Microsoft has blessed your PC to get the update.

      1. Updraft102 Silver badge

        Re: How do you abort the update?

        " If the update is happening on your PC without any prodding by you, it means Microsoft has blessed your PC to get the update."

        Like all of those PCs that GWX promised its users had been scanned and found compatible, yes?

        1. PNGuinn
          Happy

          Re: How do you abort the update? @ Updraft102

          "Microsoft has blessed"

          Oh, look - a new meaning for the word bless ....

          You really do learn something precious every day.

          1. hplasm Silver badge
            Devil

            Re: How do you abort the update? @ Updraft102

            "Oh, look - a new meaning for the word bless ...."

            ...originally perhaps ‘mark or consecrate with blood'. (Oxforddictionaries.com)

            An old meaning, perhaps, but with the twist that the blood has been digested first...

      2. Steve Jackson

        Re: How do you abort the update?

        Sorry Bob, but that's just untrue.

        None of Microsoft's update/upgrade tools have EVER done anything more than a cursory check of the CPU and RAM before ploughing an upgrade.

        They stop with a nasty error code and sometimes neither want to go back or forward.

        Oh and OEM support is just terrible; I'm sat here with a 2015 Acer that's had zero meaningful driver updates since build 10240. WiFi and Gfx particularly have been a major bugbear.

        1. Boothy

          Re: How do you abort the update?

          @Steve

          The last personal Laptop I bought was a Acer, back when Win 7 was still newly out. (So 2009, maybe early 2010).

          Acer released a grand total of one, yes just one update for it, over the next 5 years. This despite the hardware providers (chipsset, sound, GFX etc) releasing many updates for the underlying hardware, some of which fixed real issues, or improved performance etc.

          Seems Acer just couldn't be bothered to do the work needed to add these patches to their update service :-/

          I eventually (a couple of years back) did a clean install, from my own media, and just let Windows install what it wanted. Result, a much cleaner, more stable, and fractionally faster system.

          Don't think I'll be bothering with Acer again.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: How do you abort the update?

      If it hasn't already downloaded the update, you can set your wifi or ethernet connection as a "metered" connection, and Win 10 won't automagically update it: https://www.howtogeek.com/224471/how-to-prevent-windows-10-from-automatically-downloading-updates/

  3. zen1

    what idiots.

  4. This post has been deleted by its author

  5. Bob Ajob

    Just need to get the NSA tools updated

    Due to the recent publication from shadow brokers and patches to close all the old holes they'll need to ensure a large enough bunch of new holes are added to replace them. Seriously anyone not using fairly strict firewall rules should review what binaries have open ports connected to what endpoints, especially for encrypted sessions carrying packets that can't easily be sniffed. I go low tech and just look at whether the led lights blink on that dumb switch...

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Just need to get the NSA tools updated

      Just go ahead and assume if it's Internet connected or is not air/energy-gapped, it ain't secure. Far closer to the truth if you have any concerns that direction. Those of us in the communities I work/play with really are targets of interest.

      [I fiddle with security/cryptographic systems these days, having repaired their stuff in the past.]

  6. kain preacher Silver badge

    It pushed it self on to my moms computer but not mine. So far it's working. Thank god I have snap shots and if I wanted to I could roll her machine back to win 8.1.

    1. Flakk

      Is the Windows 8.1 license key for that machine still valid if it got the free upgrade to Windows 10?

      1. kain preacher Silver badge

        Yes . I've tested this with windows 7. I upgraded to windows 10 did not like it and went back to windows 7. As long as you have a legit key you can go back. Oh and side note if you install windows 7 with out a key and use the get win 10 app, it will upgrade to windows 10 with a legit license .

    2. big_D Silver badge

      I have installed it on a 2016 HP Spectre x360, a Wortmann CAD workstation (Skylake + Quadro graphics), 5 Fujitsu Lifebooks (Skylake and Kabylake) and two Asus notebooks (Kabylake). All are working fine.

      1. DJV Silver badge

        Bloody thing failed to install on my Vic-20 - came up with an out-of-cheese error.

        1. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

          Sadly you have to upgrade to the C64 to get the latest updates.

          1. Jim in Hayward

            LOLZ. Surely you meant the C128!

  7. ma1010 Silver badge
    WTF?

    I refer to my earlier post!

    Right here. The second one, starting with "Beyond shot themselves in the foot."

    "Hey, Satya, gimme another loaded magazine! Some of that foot still left on the end of the leg, so I gotta keep shooting..."

    I'm surprised Bill Gates doesn't take some sort of action. I understand he's retired from MS, but I couldn't sit by and watch the current crop of "manglers" destroy the business I built up from nothing.

    And we thought Steve Ballmer was bad news...

    1. a_yank_lurker Silver badge

      Re: I refer to my earlier post!

      Ballmer is a titan of industry compared to the current imbeciles running the show. I run Arch Linux derivatives and do not have anywhere near the heartaches Bloat 10 users have. (Distrowatch.com notes that Arch Linux is for the stout of heart as you will learn a good bit about your system out of necessity.) My most common problem is sequencing the keyring update before the main updating. Sometimes I have to do the keyring manually and once done everything else works fine.

    2. largefile

      Re: I refer to my earlier post!

      "manglers destroying Microsoft? Oh man, I guess you haven't seen their financial numbers or the stock price. Since Ballmer left it's all roses.

  8. Dwarf Silver badge
    Linux

    Don't install our buggy Windows 10 Creators Update, begs Microsoft

    Yep, no worries about that, the Penguin says no

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Holmes

      Oh c'mon - there's got to be a Wine hack out there somewhere to install it with.

  9. MrDamage

    On the other hand..

    > "On the other hand, it is seriously weird that the biz has been hyping up an operating system release that today still isn't ready for the mainstream."

    If you think it's weird, one can only assume you've never used a Microsoft product until now.

  10. dloughlin

    Enterprise customers could actually download it from the 11th via WSUS, its just not on the volume licensing site yet.

    We've started deploying it already as its fixed loads of enterprise related bugs and offers some really useful new GPOs

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    *Shakes the Magic 8Ball*

    *Looks at the floating answer thingy*

    "Outlook not so good."

    Strange, neither are the rest of the MS' offerings.

    *Shrugs, smirks, & wanders away to find another OS to install*

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Windows

    I blame noobs

    15063.250 running fine on my home-made tower from the era when its overclocked Q6600 was something

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I blame noobs

      Intriguing as I have one in storage collecting dust. Given my normal levels of insanity, it'd fit right in.

  13. St3n

    Upgraded already..

    Using a older HP with CU and haven't experienced any issues so far.

    Actually I've found the latest update to be quite good.

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Facepalm

    Ok, it's a deal, Microsoft...

    I won't install Windows.

  15. g00se
    FAIL

    jeSUS

    .. to not download and install this year's biggest revision to Windows by hand. And that's because it may well bork your machine.

    I suspect (how do i tell?) it's that Creator's Destroyer's Update that borked a client's machine, and it certainly was not done "by hand". It was done by Windows Update

  16. Tezfair
    Unhappy

    Not been able to update to 1703

    Just keep hitting a BSOD kernel trap mode. Its a HP i5, around 4 years old, no fancy hardware, all stock, but I have yet to pinpoint the cause.

    It's my clients that I worry about, my machine usually take around 20 minutes to cycle the update and that's with an SSD, so those with W10 based laptops are in for a long wait. Not good.

  17. lonegull

    Desperation

    Running Creators Update since the ISO was released and have had no major issues. Stable and responsive.

  18. LaeMing Silver badge
    Coat

    Last week they removed all the old windows from my apartment. Ancient-looking things and full of bugs (redbacks at the front, a bull-ant nest under the bedroom window). They then installed nice new windows, which look much better: cleaner, newer design, easier to operate. Only downside is I can't use more than one major appliance at a time until I upgrade the RAM.

    ....

    Thank you, I'm here all week! :-P

    1. Maty

      .. .and the thing about your new windows is that it makes it so much easier anyone who is interested to see what you are doing.

  19. Winkypop Silver badge
    Trollface

    Don't inhale

    Don't open the window

    1. LaeMing Silver badge
      Go

      Re: Don't inhale

      I actually installed cut-to-size form-ply boards over all the bottom panes for that reason (leased premises, so no permanent mods). Does that count as a security wall?

  20. Kaltern

    It's hard to make something work when you're constantly having to update decades old code. Windows 10 is the worst kind of stitching together of old bits of 7 and 8, without bothering to really do much with the redundant stuff. I mean, simple stuff like having 2 distinct UI's which are totally different is amateur-ish at bast - and that's just on the absolute surface(sic).

    I'm no code expert, but I can only imagine the horrendous mess that is the OS source code. I can almost see the infinite lists of programmer notes, giving details about bodges, don't-do-this, and other such useful pointers.

    Windows 10 is as much a 'new' OS as Windows ME was. Windows 7 was the last, true new version of Windows, which is why is still works to this day.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Erm, you do know that Windows 7 was just Vista with some optimisation work, and a re-brand?

  21. largefile

    Really haters? They had 10,000,000 people using it before released on probably half that many permutations of hardware, they announced well before the release date that it would be a slow rollout. Can't win with any of you haters. If they had done a small secret beta test and rolled it out with issues you would have called them names. Now they do one of the largest and most thorough beta tests ever on any platform and want to continue to fine tune and you call them names.

    Tell me what perfect build of what in your lives you have ever been happy with on day one?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Really haters? They had....

      You can surmise this to:

      "It's a crock of shit (Win10 Code), we're trying, FU".

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "what perfect build of what in your lives you have ever been happy with on day one?"

      Windows 7? Then again, we did a clean install with pro licenses and delete all exciting partitions on the vista PCs. No bloatware, no junk, Everyone was extremely excited (at the time) as it really just works .

  22. Ropewash

    "On the other hand, it is seriously weird that the biz has been hyping up an operating system release that today still isn't ready for the mainstream."

    Since July 2015 at least.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Far too generous.. the date you mean is 8 November 2006, release of Vista.

      Iterations of Lipstick on a Pig, ever since (slowly morphing into a subscription/advertorial model).

  23. cageordie

    Yeah. Whatever. Works for me.

    That's what I am running right now. It's not like it's a work machine or anything, just the test and toy machine. So far it's working fine. But then it dual boots Linux, in case it gets too badly borked. I have had to roll back one release.

  24. OffBeatMammal

    and even when it's delivered automagically it can still f#ck you up...

    I have a couple of machines that came pre-installed with W10 Home. Because RDP doesn't work on Home (and I couldn't see the point of paying for Pro just for RDP) I use RDPWrap (https://github.com/stascorp/rdpwrap) and have done since Win7 days as needed. For some reason Creators Update borked it. Not a problem, except now I can't remote into the machines which are several hours drive away. Sigh.

    1. mozo

      Re: and even when it's delivered automagically it can still f#ck you up...

      RDP works even on Linux. You don't need this square crap.

      Linux has major updates every day and every single update went without problems 7 years already. I still can't understand how people bear this madness. I'm happies man ever using Linux and I can't imagine to fight Windows mess every day.

      1. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

        Re: and even when it's delivered automagically it can still f#ck you up...

        It's just like with cars: The less people understand of what's going on, the easier it is to whip them into sheeplike submission (sheep may actually be less submissive than average humans).

  25. VulcanV5
    Unhappy

    Enough to shake your religious belief . . .

    Please say it isn't true, that The Creator doesn't know what It is doing. That God the Almighty Nadella is fallible. For verily, the tribes of the XP and the Vista and the Seven -- though not the Eight, put quickly to the sword of the Profit Balmer, and definitely not the Nine, as it was never begat -- verily were those tribes led into the Land of Ten, whether they wished to abide there or not, and were told that it was good, more milk, more honey, more telemetry than humankind had ever before seen.

    But now. . . Now? The Creator is having problems, creating? Un-be-liev-able. For it is writ that though the waters of the Red Sea shall divide, never will the house of the Red Mond come apart, nor all its works from version 4.5a on. The Creator dwelleth therein. And all is good, and will so forever remain. . .

    . . . At least until it's so fucked up that the heathen are at the Gates, and all profits have fled.

    The Creator. A delusion not now coming to a theater near you.

  26. Instinct46

    Fine

    Personally I've found the update to be fine, well actually haven't noticed anything different since the update for the normal day to day usage.

  27. johnwworth

    No issues here either...

    My work Surface 4 updated automatically and I manually updated all my personal machines going back to 15 year old Acer desktop (must get the lady wife something a bit more recent!) and even a little Asus Netbook - all are working perfectly - the latest release is robust and stable.

  28. Bronek Kozicki Silver badge

    Eventually everyone will learn to run Windows on a VM (where hypervisor is NOT Windows), with an easy and robust rollback procedure. Come to think of it, there probably is a market niche for Linux distribution for such hypervisor, as to make its installation very simple and easy.

    1. P. Lee

      >Come to think of it, there probably is a market niche for Linux distribution for such hypervisor,

      ESX?

  29. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

    Problem is, the normal update may well f*ck you as well.

    For example, my USB microscope just won't work any more with Windows 10. Perhaps if I find some other camera app, that isn't malware, I might get it to work again, but I wouldn't bet on it.

    That's what one gets when MS decides that user's must eat whatever sh*t they feed you.

    Foresaw it from day one, and it happened, as certain as taxes and death.

  30. hamiltoneuk

    Installed Creators Update here using Windows 10 Upgrade Assistant on to a 4th Gen and a 2nd Gen Core i3 desktop plus a 1st gen Core i-3 lappy and they all work very nicely. Compared with the bad old days when every Windows upgrade was a guaranteed waste of time it's a whole lot better now!

  31. DaveCheltenham
    Happy

    First Time Failure

    Admittedly, this was on an older Dell Laptop but failed on no network connections at all, despite NW Reset and drivers being OK. Using WhoCrashed, it seems to be a Kernel problem on a shut-down failure (it just hung) and no solution. I await to see what Microsoft come up with?

  32. jason 7 Silver badge

    Installed it on three...

    ...2008 vintage machines. All went without a hitch. Yesterday was a 2014 laptop. All fine.

    The only issue I've had was upgrading a Windows 7 machine with Office 2010 and Outlook 2013 installed. For some reason it wiped out the Outlook 2013.

    Lucky I cloned before it was boned.

  33. mark jacobs

    Help!

    I have got the update and now I cannot find the old control panel (it used to be on the right-click menu of the Start button). Any ideas where it has gone? I don't like the new "Settings" app.

    1. Carl D

      Re: Help!

      Control Panel is near the bottom of the Start Menu - under Windows System. You can right click and 'pin' it to the Tiles or Taskbar if you like, as I have done.

      Yes, I noticed Microsoft removed it from the Start button right click options in Creators Update. I have no idea why, of course.

      Change just for the heck of it, so it would seem.

      1. mark jacobs

        Re: Help!

        Thanks for that, Carl. However, it only contains 2 icons when displayed as small icons, and when displayed as normal, most categories have nothing in them! They have removed most of its functionality!

        1. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

          Re: Help!

          They have removed most of its functionality!

          That is called deliberate dumbing down!

  34. Tom Paine Silver badge

    "We'll give it to you when it's ready..."

    I'm reminded of that HL Mencken quip...

    "Democracy is the belief that the people know what is best for them, and deserve to be given it, good and hard"

  35. Avatar of They
    Coat

    You had me at the headline. "Don't install windows 10" Probably already been said but worth repeating.

  36. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The Spying Lie

    Takes the "we are not spying on you, we are just getting telemetry that will make rollouts smoother.

    So bascially after slurping all they want for a year or so off my HP Pavillion laptop, this is the stupid error message the Win 10 update gives me (after monopolizing my computer, with about an hour of heavy downloading and dish thrashing.)

    "Some apps need to be uninstalled

    These programs need to be uninstalled because they aren't compatible with the upgrade.

    HP AMD Carrizo A10-8700 CPU

    Uninstall and Continue"

    1. mark jacobs

      Re: The Spying Lie

      So, remove the CPU. That should get rid of those pesky messages! ;-)

  37. Captain Badmouth
    Holmes

    More detail needed

    "you'll be prompted to make some important choices on your privacy settings..."

    No sh*t, sherlock.

  38. Gis Bun

    They rushed it....

    The Broadcom Bluetooth hardware could be on many laptops. Why did they release this to the public? Oh ya. They gave themselves a deadline.

    Originally this was supposed to be "v1704".

    1. Down not across Silver badge
      Coat

      Re: They rushed it....

      Originally this was supposed to be "v1704".

      Is that Bismark or Furious ...or maybe Yorktown?

  39. jonfr

    Upgrade and then downgrade Windows 10 - issues happend

    I did install the upgrade to Windows 10 version 1706 from version 1607 only to find out it was buggy and many basic things that worked. I did complain about what I found when I was at version 1706 and that was just SNMP service that I found. I did downgrade back to version 1607 only to find out that process made Windows 10 inconsistent with it self and made part of Windows 10 Store stop working, breaking Netflix and Microsoft calendar app (or something like it) and there doesn't appear to be any good way to repair that problem without doing a complete reset of the system.

    I'm currently trying to repair the damage without having to put the system into default state. As a matter of rule I don't keep my data on the C: drive (that I can avoid placing there) due to the experience with Microsoft and their bugs.

    1. PthDE

      Re: Upgrade and then downgrade Windows 10 - issues happend

      I thought about returning to 16xx from 17yy. I see the old winfiles folder but frankly I'm sh*t-scared in doing it. My ThinkPad T420 is dual boot. I work always in Linux (Ubuntu) but I retained Windows largely because my wife has it on her T420. Her machine has the oldfiles folder but mine not as I grabbed all available space for Linux - I'm really happy with that, I never want to see Windows again! But IF I have to downgrade my wife's machine, I'm uncertain how reliable it will do that. Frankly, I'd rather talk her into using Linux.

      1. Jim in Hayward

        Re: Upgrade and then downgrade Windows 10 - issues happend

        Why would you not backup the entire system to an external drive (clone or Acronis NFS)? You can easliy restore the entire system to the state it was in prior to any updates or shenanigans.

  40. miket82

    Lucky or just creative?

    Have 7 machines. 2 laptops, an i5 3 year old Dell and a 5 year old pentium Acer Aspire, a 5 year old i3 HP desktop, and 4 home built desktops (1*i3, 2* i5 [all 3 gen], 1*AMD II x2) all on mobos bought over eBay using whatever memory and HDD's I had laying around. I updated, manually, each one to Creative, starting from the most ancient first, ending with the Dell. All have VMware and Oracle VM Virualbox loaded as well as other stuff I experiment with. All work!

  41. DerekCurrie Bronze badge
    FAIL

    Why Am I Supposed To Respect Microsoft?

    I can't remember...

  42. Herby
    Facepalm

    Situation Normal...

    All Fouled Up.

    Can't say much more. Welcome to beta test.

  43. mrmond

    " entirely different machines here. One a tablet designed for Win 10 and updated to Anniversary with no problem at all. Had a notification to update to Creators edition after going through some checks. This is an Intel based tables and GPU with all drivers up to date. Complete failure, black screen, hours of waiting and trying to reboot although it showed the login screen fin and would let me enter the password and even bring up the task manager to show running processes. Oddly it never showed explorer.exe as a running process! I rolled that back and when I was offered the option to update my main laptop , as it's AMD/Ati based I thought different architecture, it should be different. To be safe I disabled all 3rd party programs and services like Windowblinds & Rainmeter that usually run in the background or on startup so that they wouldn't interfere.

    Same result. The only way I could get any display was to reboot into safe mode. Rolled back and discovered that my main Microsoft account was logged out with no way to log back in so I had to use a local one instead and spent a very long time tracking down a solution to that and fixing other errors to networking. Sharing credentials, user access across local computers on the same network and other things on the LAN all had to be set back up again.

    If two entirely different machines running different software get screwed up with the same symptoms ( and no it wasn't something simple like just needing to select the display output) then something is screwed up.

  44. larrym3711

    Keep away from Win10 Creators Update....for now

    I installed this update and my machine and the first thing was that several apps were missing from the screen. Secondly the code for the widgets was changed as many did not show up at first. My sound was muted but recovered. The initial sign on picture was now blank, and worst of all it refused to bring my Epson xp640 printer on line..it was permanently grayed out on the screen. Yuck! Soooo, I selected the recovery option (to restore to the previous version), and after several minutes it rebooted the previous version. Good enough you say! Hmmm, not so fast there. The widgets did not recover. AND checking the regular registry for full recovery, I discovered that many registry entries were DELETED! Sooo...I had to reinstall the widgets again...that worked. I used some of the best total system tools to recover all entries in the system, found long lists of unneeded entries, and several fixes to be made, and finally performed a 100% check for a system entries via sfc/scan now. Yep, all is well now and fully functional with no file, system, or software/hardware problems. Keep away from this update...for now.

  45. tsf

    Don't update manually, the option would have been nice.

    I'm not sure how Microsoft is determing when to roll out only when it's confident your machine is ready, but I don't think it's being very careful.

    I was about to undertake some important work from home, but had to update a program first which required a quick reboot.

    Unfortunately as soon as it started to reboot the Creators Edition started to install without warning, annoying enough when you're in a rush, infuriating when it reboots and can't see the boot drive.

    Hours later after extensive investigation I had to manually rebuild the windows boot loader and recreate EFI boot partitions because it had thrown a fit and corrupted the UEFI bios settings, thanks.

    I'm a creative and it's not been the edition for me!

  46. Kiwi Silver badge
    Linux

    Big changes at MS

    and has thus stopped offering the latest Windows 10 upgrade to computers it suspects may suffer from breakdowns.

    Normally MS first pushes out the patch that breaks a lot of machines, then pushes out the bull about how it's something else and not them at fault. What's happened over there?

    hyping up an operating system release that today still isn't ready for the mainstream.

    Ah, normality restored (W95.1, ME, XP pre SP, all vista, 8, 8.1, 10 - none of these were ready (or fit) for use)

  47. Nathan 13

    W10

    Is just one big train wreck

  48. Alperian

    I got creative after a fashion.

    I just blindly installed it the other day on my 8 year old Sandybridge x64 machine. I guess I was lucky. No problems so far although I can't see one new feature either. I am also using an old trusty 128Gb OCZ cache drive which would have presented a fantastic opportunity for failure, but all working fine.

  49. W130SN

    Installed on 3 machines, all 3 had problems. Disappointing that after all these years they still can't get it right.

  50. Macca Pukka

    Had woes with Broadcom Bluetooth 4.0 LE with a MX anywhere mouse on an Insider build since the Creators Update. Insider Build 16179 still hasn't fixed it either. Got so sick of having to remove the mouse in Bluetooth settings, add it and it doesn't stay connected stably for long that I've plugged in the USB cable which thankfully does work!

  51. Barry Mahon

    Fucking wonderful, W10 installs it almost without asking, cannot be avoided.

  52. Jonjonz

    Creators Update fails on my one year old notebook

    More total BS from Microsoft.

    Even after slurping my data for a year, they still try to install this update once a week, which invariably fails with the following patented Microsoft error message:

    Some apps need to be uninstalled

    These programs need to be uninstalled because they aren/t

    compatible with the upgrade.

    HP AMD Carrizo A10-8700 CPU

    Uninstall and Continue

    The thing that gauls me the most about this is they BS that they know what they are doing and will look out for the average user, while this kind of stupidity is still being spewn out by their product.

  53. pmartin66

    I've never been happier with any OS. No, I don't install early releases either. Just install, then run DoNotspy10 to kill off all the spying and telemetry, hell, even updates if you want, but i like those.

  54. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    They snuck it onto my developer workstation and it's been weeks of hell..

    They snuck it onto my developer workstation and it's been weeks of hell..

    I complained on Facebook, and the Windows FB page managers, blocked me from commenting again.

    They can't stand it when someone tells them about reality.

    --

    My opinion is that Windows10 is a plague with a project manager/head developer who is a willfully ignorant imbecile.

    --

    I'm sending them a bill for the days and days of work I have lost as well as for the clients I have not been able to service due to not being able to Stop WIndows from breaking my computer each week/month.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: They snuck it onto my developer workstation and it's been weeks of hell..

      There is this new company called Apple. The software is written to work on their hardware. You pay a few hundred more when you buy it. You get free support for life and most importantly... it works 99.9% of the time. It's also really easy to fix because it's based on Unix. You should try it.

  55. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Windows has always been a sack of crap.

  56. PthDE

    and all from stealing another's excellent (working!) product in the 1980's - which was CP/M

    I had upgraded our laptops at home some days ago. I had searched on how to create a Windows ISO disc and was also presented a link to the new 1703 upgrade. For the moment my old (but very loveable) ThinkPad T420 works but some days I get my media card reader and some days not.

    A friend up north had upgraded and is now frantically asking me for help because he can't get to his photos. Thumbnails no longer display it seems. Also, his folder lists look screwy in explorer. A few other people have similar problems too. One can't seem to open items (apps/folders/etc) in the start menu.

    All in all a big pile of crap! Which is why I've been using Ubuntu these past 4 years!

    Why did I mention CP/M?

    In the 1980's when I was writing some hardware drivers (I'm an electronics engineer) I was working under Digital Research's CP/M then 2.2 but later came 3.0. I had used many of the OS's BIOS functions (eg. read mouse, read track, sector, print, etc). Eventually DOS appeared on the scene and so we had to move across. Astonishingly it had identical BIOS functions and they were even indexed with the same identification number! Now what does that tell you.

    Also, DOS screen behaviour was identical to CP/M. What do I mean by that? Well, like a lot of software, it has unpublished 'functions'. ie. as in NOT documented! Under CP/M, typing a Ctrl-P would 'toggle' printed output from screen to printer and vice-versa. Guess what? Yep! You've guessed. DOS did EXACTLY the same and was also an 'Undocumented' feature. Now what has all THAT told you? YES! That DOS was 'cribbed' from CP/M - it must have been - somehow?

    Now, why was that? Well, Microsoft (and these were the real early days) had won a contract to produce PC-DOS for IBM. But IBM was caught with its trousers down, embarrassingly so, because it hadn't bought the intellectual property rights. This meant Microsoft had produced PC-DOS and could re-market it as MS-DOS... and of course all aimed at IBM-based PCs!!! What a silver platter to be handed. Oh, and while we speak of intellectual property rights, I wonder what Digital Research had - seems like nothing in fact! By the way Wikipedia calls CP/M being 'displaced' by MS-DOS... like, yeah.

    So, having 'cribbed' an already existing good OS from a much more professional outfit than Microsoft will ever be, the next step for MS-DOS was to build its own 'DOS' part of its name. Disk Operating System. Someone, someone who knew nothing about software, let alone file systems, had decided to produce it written BASIC. Yep! An interpreting language. Originally a training language (like PASCAL was) it was slow (because it is interpreting) and non-efficient. This was to become a major slowing-up factor for Windows to come. I think it remained right up to Win 98, could even be further.

    I could go on but the idea behind Unix began in the 70's by very clever guys and even the C-language was produced for it. Thanks to Linux arriving it has brought us enthusiastic communities who enjoy working to get things right (and hopefully to make some money themselves). It's communities like these that will bring products that we will need and will be made to work. Not the over-bloated money-grabbers! BTW Windows and the mouse were inventions by Rank Xerox at their labs. So you can see what I think of MS etc!

    Good luck with Win 10 because you're all going to need it!

    1. webusr

      Re: and all from stealing another's excellent (working!) product in the 1980's - which was CP/M

      Ever heard of Seattle Computer Products? Care to cite a source that DOS was written in BASIC? And you do know that Jobs & Co. "stole" the GUI & mouse from PARC before MS played catch up, right?

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Kildall#IBM_dealings

      1. Jim in Hayward

        Re: and all from stealing another's excellent (working!) product in the 1980's - which was CP/M

        Apple licenses the GUI and mouse from PARC. You need a history lesson.

  57. pwingert

    Five months and special kernel software need for network

    Got my update this weekend. No network access. Hours searching. Event logs indicate additional kernel software required for network drivers. Tech at MS store suggested MS does not support older hardware that has been orphaned by the manufacturer. My latop is three years old. My solution roll back to 1607 then Administrative Tools | services | Update and disable update service the service and stop the service. This should block the updates. I think I will wait for the updatein 2199! I got additional kernel software and hardware to address my upgrade issues its called an Apple iPad 9.7!

  58. JOEYBLOG

    Shafted by Microsoft again!

    I didn't ask for this upgrade but both my desktop and laptop have installed it without asking me. I now find I cannot copy video from my video recorders to my media server. I tried uninstalling the upgrade but it didn't work and in any case the upgrade simply reinstalls itself again without reference to me. You just feel so powerless that Microsoft can get away with this behaviour and you have no redress whatsoever.

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