All the cost of a juicer at considerably more of the price (HP printer business model)
with added IoT goodness.
F**k right off.
Meet this week's bonkers startup Juicero – the San Francisco maker of a $400 fruit juicer that's bagged $120m in funding from investors. The internet-connected gizmo has been dubbed the "Keurig for juice." Juicero founder Doug Evans went as far as comparing himself to Steve Jobs. There's just one little problem with Juicero's …
In the HP model the juicer itself would be sold well below cost and the profits all made on the pre-packaged fruit.
In this model the juicer is eye-wateringly expensive, and I'm sure the fruit packs aren't cheap either.
But ... and this is the real problem with the device ... you are restricted to using the manufacturer's own prepackaged mixtures of fruits and vegetables. You can't make up a mixture to suit your own taste, and you can't use fruit that's actually -- you know -- fresh!
It combines the inconvenience of having to squeeze your own juice with the restrictions of pre-packaged ingredients ... then it adds IoT foolishness just in case you still thought there might be something there to like.
The juice packs apparently cost between $5 and $8 each (i.e. £4 to £6 or so) and all appear to be 10oz (283g in weight). I heard somewhere how much juice they're supposed to make; it was something like 225 to 250ml (8 US fl oz IIRC).
The bottom line is you're paying that much for a midsized glass of juice on top of the cost of the overpriced contraption that can't even function as a regular juicer and does little you can't do yourself to the packs.
Not that anyone who hadn't already invested in the IoT-enabled status symbol would likely *want* to waste their money on the obscenely expensive juice packs anyway.
Add to that the amount of packaging and general overheads associated with each pack; like Keurig, but even more inefficient. Obnoxious, wasteful, marketing-driven yuppie b******t. Everything that's wrong with "gadgets".
As others have said, this is one of those products that you really *want* to fail, along with everyone associated with the project.
Gotta lurrvve it.
ITS NEW all new SNAKE OIL buzzword, cliche, tired cliche, hippy hippy shake shake. BUY EEET NAO!
a) packaged organic veggies and fruit, all chopped up. Hmm. No thanks. Listeria. Shelf life of hours, or they're sprayed with appropriate preservatives, and are thus not in the category of the buzzword "Organic". Yes, lemon juice works, but we're talking the *BUZZWORD* organic.
Thanks I'll cut em up myself. After buying em from the local market. Whole. Or (perhaps) picking em out o my garden.
(what? a knife and 10 seconds in the appropriate $45 blending device, pour into glass, toss warm water and a drop o soap in appropriate blending device, reactivate blending, cleaned)
b) $400 for a @#$%@#$ juicer? no - absolutely not. for an IOT Juicer? I think my opinion on IOT bullshit brain baffler devices is known. This project needs to die yesterday.
/ yes I'm in a pissy mood. 2am and byte walking tapes to repair block headers. Don't talk to me.
It smashes the cell walls of the fruit inceasing the amount of sugar released.
Eat the fruit normally and get the benefit of the fibre bulk to fill you up without the excess calories fine blending causes.
If you eat the fruit, do those sugars not get digested in the same way? Surely blending won't magically generate extra calories - they're there anyway, right?
(genuine question, as I'm curious)
If you eat the fruit, do those sugars not get digested in the same way?
The same amount of sugars, but not digested in the same way. The problem is with the time it takes for your blood sugar to rise. Whole fruit has a lower glycaemic index than fruit juice. Many fruit juices deliver the same glycaemic load as a glass of Coke.
Also, a recent study reported that prepared, bagged salads could carry a dangerous risk of salmonella because the juices on the cut ends of the leaves are an ideal growth medium for bacteria. I would guess that the juices in a bag of cut fruit are salmonella heaven.
genuine question, as I'm curious
Yes, you are consuming the same quantity of sugar from the fruit and therefore the same amount of calories, but the rate of absorption of those sugars is different to if you had juiced the fruit or ate the fruit.
The process of mastication (chewing) will not doubt cause crushing and breaking down of a certain amount of cell walls, but the bulk of the fruit mass will still reach the stomach in an intact state, leaving it for the enzymes to breakdown the cells and release the content which takes some time, and therefore the sugar is made available to the body over a period of time - Low Glycemic Index.
Consuming juice means directly ingesting the available sugar from the fruit which is readily absorbed and carried in the blood. High Glycemic Index.
High GI results in a blood sugar rush and the pancreas has to supply insulin at a greater rate...
Depends how you define digestion. But the short answer is no, they don't get digested the same way.
The fruit with benefit of fibre has a lower glycemic index. That's an attempt to quantify the effect a food has on your serum insulin levels. Why do we care? Because what your body decides to do with the calories you eat is heavily impacted by your insulin levels. All other things being equal, the higher your insulin, the greater proportion of your ingested calories goes to fat. This is why low carb diets work-- they keep your insulin levels low.
Sugar released is not particularly relevant as you will get it anyway.
The "bad tirade" of instant juicing are:
1. Removal of Fiber
3. Increased damage to teeth from acids and sugar
Juice it only if it is a real PITA to eat otherwise - grapefruit, wild apples and pears, etc. Otherwise just eat it. Much better for you.
As far as "sugar from 3 oranges" your burn rate at max "brain revs" is > 250 calories per hour. An orange is only 50 calories. If you get proper breakfast, lunch and dinner you are still looking at 1-2 oranges an hour to keep the thinking machine going (brain wants sugar, it could not care less about other forms of energy. If you are not getting a proper lunch as is the case in most modern offices, you are looking at cranking that up to >2 oranges per hour (either that or the cookie/choc jar which is much much worse).
Grapefruit.... My Ghod, do you know how long it has been since I had a grapefruit? I recall I liked them... Hmmm
I don't remember. Pretty sure I was still living w/parents. Fuck. That means 35+ years ago, minimum. Have to go by the store today.
On Topic-> That machine should have been sold on QVC or the Home Shopping Network, but they want to be Apple, mixed with a little HP dicketry. They attempted to sell it at $699 at first, but that proved to be a bit much for the folks who cannot afford to hire fitness trainers... I understand they have delivery issues to parts of the country because the packets have next to zero shelf life (which is odd because I can order live tropical fish from a breeder in Oregon and have them 3-day shipped to Tennessee with possible 1-2 losses from a group of ten). You also cannot buy juice packets unless you already are a registered owner of said kitchen counter clutterer.
I also suspect those 'fresh vegetables' are the leftovers from processing fruit for other uses - a'la pink slime bits and pieces.
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>It's funny how fruit juice went from being "good for you" to being "bad for you" almost exactly the same time as it went from being expensive enough that only rich people could afford it to being cheap enough that even poor people could afford it .....<
Exactly, and so it has happened for many other things!
"Vulgarisation" it is often called, i.e. when the bourgeois and the proletarians get access to it, the "Cool Kids" no longer wants it.
In this forum, I have seen many cases of it, not limited to food:
Wearable fitness devices
Feel free to add to the list!
Exactly. But the value is not to the juser, rather to the company. Although I'm hard-pressed to see enough poor saps buying the machine and its
ink cartridgesfruit packs to get the company to stay liquid, even with the sales talk where Jeff Dunn managed to squeeze in most of the currantly fashionable buzzwords. Also, as it's IoT, it's certain to leak sensitive data all over the place.
Clearly you've got to be nuts to buy a machine like this.
"Juicero’s mission is to make it dramatically easier and more enjoyable to consume more fresh, raw fruits and vegetables, and that’s a really tough nut to crack. "
...said in all seriousness. I think we know where the nuts went.
a bucket and an old laundry mangle. How primitive...
The most sold household item on the Balkans (including what was Yugoslavia) in my childhood was the Eureka washing machine. This contraption has separate washing and centrifuge compartments with top loading for both and easily disabled safety.
Here is a modern version of the same appliance: https://iak.olx.ph/images_olxph/824890925_4_1000x700.jpg?rev=001&bucket=04
As you can see - the design has remained virtually unchanged for 40 years despite it being large, ungainly and double the size of a normal washing machine. There is a reason for this - it has an alternative application in addition to washing - Grapes into the centrifuge, output hose into the cask, power, let's rolllllllll.... As the centrifuge is top loaded you can just dump them with a bucket. There is no drain pump - it is 100% gravity drained so there is nothing to go wrong too.
By the way - it costs less than 1/3rd of the contraption discussed here too.
He was old school. He left (the former) Yugoslavia shortly after WWII (there may have been a little misunderstanding about alleged war crimes). One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist. And in Yugoslavia one man's Royalist is another man's Nazi sympathizer (or not) and so on.
In the West the generic term for this is a "twin tub." I'm not sure if they are quite as large, or with such easily disabled safety devices.
By the way - it costs less than 1/3rd of the contraption discussed here too.
And for that low, low price you not only get a juicer that does not take space on your counter top, it *is* its own counter top (if you close the lid), and you can even wash your clothes in it.
Donning my flameproof pants here, I'd sign up for this if I had the money. I think they've cocked up the marketing and put too much emphasis on the IoT bullshit, but the fundamental premise sounds valid and they have the potential to deliver a useful service. We know that we have to eat more veg, the more the better. You can maximise the benefits by juicing them, so that you're able to take in even more of the valuable nutrients, without eating a ton of spinach, for instance. This is a bit different to making a peach and ice cream smoothie in your hand-me-down blender.
For those of us that have the time to wander off to the market or grow their own - excellent, you've clearly made good decisions in your life - many of us don't have that kind of time readily available. I bought a juicer and try to periodically make myself a big bottle of "green juice" to have during the day - when I do, my energy levels are higher and I can think more clearly than usual. It makes me feel great, the effects are more tangible than any vitamins or supplements I've ever taken. I usually put in at least two bunches of spinach or kale, a cucumber, carrots, a whole broccoli, maybe green beans, and some ginger or apples to make it all palatable. I couldn't eat that much veg if I tried.
BUT(t) - it's a pain in the ass - you want the produce to be fairly fresh, so you need to be buying it every 2nd or 3rd day. It makes a mess and the machine is a hassle to clean (according to the reviews I read, my machine is one of the easier to clean). Here in my country there are one or two companies commercially producing and selling tiny bottles of pure veg and fruit juice, but they cost a fortune. From the CEO's letter, this crowd are working on the whole supply chain to make it easier to get the benefits of fresh juice in your home without the hassle. Power to them.
Actually I sort of agree with you here. My smoothie maker regularly gets fed with pre-packed pre-cut fruits and frozen packs of berry mix for the very reasons you expound - I simply don't have the time/inclination to go fresh fruit shopping every couple of days (in other words, ICBA).
Why on Earth anyone would need/want an Internet-enabled juicer or smoothie maker is, however, completely beyond me.
Ok, I'll bite. Exactly which "valuable nutrients" in veg makes them healthy? Guess what. Despite vast sums spent on research, you can ask any dietitian, nutritionist, professor of nutrition science, etc etc and they simply don't know. They can't even hazard a reasonable guess as a starting point for further research. Is chlorophyll some sort of mysterious unrecognised wonder-food? Is it the water in them? Maybe the cellulose? We know for sure (the science has been done) it is not eating an excess of vitamins.
So your "energy levels" are higher after drinking "green juice"? Ah the power of the human mind. What pharmaco-physiological effects do you think might be boosting your "energy levels" beyond, say, some carbohydrates (in which case try some of your favourite sugar-filled fizzy drink instead).
And the evidence behind the "3-a-day", or "8-a-day", or "5-a-day" fad? Wow, if you want to see some flaky science full of vague assumptions look at where these figures come from.
Basically, food is a zillion-dollar industry so any "science" behind it is systematically distorted and hyped until it is simply no longer recognisable as science. What was Phelp's diet again that produced one of the greatest ever Olympians? (http://www.bravotv.com/blogs/what-olympic-athletes-eat-and-drink-every-day-will-shock-you).
Me? I love food. I enjoy a decent mixed diet including fruit and veg (because I like them not because of any defined health benefit). I am vaguely aware of my calorie intake and am not obese.
I believe we have made it to a 10-a-day recommendation. Probably followed by another piece of research that is either paid for by a vested interest or taken out of context by the press that says fruit and veg is bad and we should only eat moon rock if we want a long life.
All things in moderation and try to get out of the chair long enough to raise the heart rate.
Just sharing my own experience - I do agree that for every nutritional study out there, it's just as easy to find another with apparently opposite findings. However, without getting into a whole big thing, are you really trying to argue that there isn't evidence of useful nutrients being contained in vegetables?
"are you really trying to argue that there isn't evidence of useful nutrients being contained in vegetables?"
No, that would be insane. It was intended as more of a comment on the media, as I am recommended to eat one thing one day and not the next, but wait until tomorrow it will be ok again.
are you really trying to argue that there isn't evidence of useful nutrients being contained in vegetables?
The weasel-word here is "nutrients". In spite of what self-styled nutritionists tell you, here's nothing intrinsically good about nutrients.
Most food consists of a mixture of nutrients, things absorbed by the body, and non-nutrients such as fibre, that pass right through. A bag of white sugar contains nothing but useful nutrients. It also delivers plenty of energy - another weasel-word. But it's not really a wise food choice.
I think the problem is that too many people don't vary their diet much beyond protein/starch combinations. A balanced diet is always preferable, but for most people, that probably means eating more fruit/veg, hence all the health campaigns that focus on "getting your (x) a day".
"For those of us that have the time to wander off to the market or grow their own"
You don't have time to go to the store? Or set up some sort of delivery system? Then go to fugging eatery :)
"you want the produce to be fairly fresh, so you need to be buying it every 2nd or 3rd day."
Going to the supermarket once a week and a market/grocer/bloke on side of road once a week doesn't seem too much of a hassle. Lots of stuff is as "fresh"* when canned or frozen, notably berries and legumes.
"I couldn't eat that much veg if I tried."
Try it. Seriously. Eating vegetables isn't that hard, quick boil and nom nom. I even hear carrots and broccoli can be eaten raw, by using the "food processor" of your teeth. If you don't wank about it no-one really cares, apart from the chewing sounds.
"It makes a mess and the machine is a hassle to clean"
You're doing it wrong, much like the rest of your diet ;)
Now I'm not a fan of juicers/blenders, since they appeal to lazy fuckers, and lazy fuckers don't like to wash up. So after you used it (right after, not when you get round to it) fill it with soapy water, run it, then do the same with clean water.
But I'd think you'd be better off just deciding to actually eat some freaking veggies as part of your normal diet.
My main issue with it is that a diet of apples, carrots, spuds, rice and veggies on the turn was what I ate for six months when broke as fuck. So I can still look at the ingredients of a liter of green juice as often being 4-5 days food. Well, the non starch parts anyway.
* in terms of retaining vitamins and minerals
"Are you the guy who made Tesco rethink the serving suggestion on their chillies? ("Why not toss into a fresh green salad?") "
@ John H Woods: Alas no, Tesco being very good at ignoring anything I say.
My local Lidl is very nice, since I'm apparently the only person who puts stuff in their suggestion box. I thought the manager was having a laugh with me when he said it, but apparently true.
Just to show my awesome health credentials, I've managed to get them to add doughnuts to the bakery section, and bring back the chocolate/praline blocks that Mrs V likes an awful lot.
I am amused by the fact that a suggestion slip with "doughnuts!" being the only thing written on it got a result, along with its follow up "more doughnuts!"
"I couldn't eat that much veg if I tried."
"Try it. Seriously. Eating vegetables isn't that hard, quick boil and nom nom."
Here's an add on cooking tip for op, do search for some recipes to make the food (veg) tastier.
At the very least, add some salt to the pot and maybe some seasonings on top of the boiled veg to enhance the favor just as you would on a baked potato or potato chips.
The problem I see with this is the proprietary nature of it. You spend a considerable amount of money on this, but have to buy THEIR packaged produce...if they go belly up, or hike their prices, you have an expensive piece of counter-clutter. Plus, at $5-8 each, the packs aren't cheap, but, I'm compelled to admit, aren't as pricey as I thought they might be. I, too, have been conditioned by the printer & ink pricing model.
But the best-insulated box won't keep the stuff suitably chilled if its dropped in a sunny area on a hot summer day at 10 or 11 and not retrieved until you get home 6 or 7 hours later...you could have an entire shipment warmed up to unsafe levels.
If you could make your own packs, might be different. You can keep enjoying the thing even if the company rolls over, and you can create your own blends.
Then there's the IoT aspect, which has its own issues. I'd just as soon walk in, load the thing up, and poke the "go" button, then come back later to retrieve the glass of crushed organic matter.
Popped over to their website, actually - I was reading the articles, I promise. No, I failed to note that 250ml tidbit. Kind of expected single-serve, though. I would expect this is meant to attract itself to the crowd that's already replaced an actual breakfast with a smoothie, so their pricing reflects this as a meal replacement, not an accompaniment. Given the alternative many people might resort to is a fast-food McBreakfast with who-knows-what in it and coffee for five or six bucks...meh.
Maybe you could "cut" the result with commercial juices and get something more to sip on most of a morning.
There are 2240 lb. in a ton (= 1016.0469 kg.), not 2000. You might be confusing "a hundredweight" (which is 8 stone, or 112 lb. [= 50.802345 kg.]) with "a hundred pounds" (= 45.359237 kg).
Now imagine a system whereby the jump from one measuring unit to the next was always a factor of 1000, and a consistent system of prefixes could be applied interchangeably to any of the base units for scaling. Oh, but that would be far too complicated .....
(All conversions courtesy of GNU units.)
As has been pointed out above, fresh juice can be healthy and tasty.
I regularly throw a few handfuls of fruit and veg into the juicer and fondly imagine it's doing me some good. But how much? I can see some value in an app which could immediately tell me something like, 'You've just had 50% of your RDA of vitamin D - why not have some carrots? But you're at 100% for vitamin C: well done you.'
Next up: an augmented reality app that surrounds me with a dazzling Ready Brek glow.
And I might be prepared to share my consumption stats with a health insurer in return for reduced premiums. Although they'd have no way of knowing I wasn't following my kale smoothie with half a dozen deep-fried Mars bars and a bottle of Scotch.
The stuff in the packet is no more fresh than the stuff you get pre-juiced in a bottle in the supermarket - unless each bag actually contains solid apples, oranges, kales and broccollis or whatever fad of the week "superfood" they're ripping the piss out of you for then it's half-way juiced already so what's the point?
On the assumption that they're going to claim that pre-juicing it is going to cause vitamins/fibre/sugars/vitamins/someotherbollocks to degrade in some way by the time it gets to you, and that's why you should buy their product, then it's self-demonstrating nonsense dreamed up for and by silicon valley hispters with too much cash. More power to them I say; anyone buying this deserves to lose their money and I'm only sorry it's not being lost in my direction.
Does using a juicer taste better than the juice you buy?
Is it more nutritious?
How will the price compare with buying juice?
Will the veggies be better than the veggies in the bottle? If so, can you tell?
Those are the actual fundamental questions. Unfortunately, this article doesn't even attempt to answer those questions.
The journalist suggests that people can just use their hands, as if labor-saving isn't a trillion pound industry.
The journalist complains that the statement doesn't explain why it's better than a bottle. Well, we don't know either. Maybe the journalist could do some investigation and write an article about it. You know, like the good old days.
I think that this article raises an important question: Is the journalist just writing this shite for the money or do they actually find it enjoyable?
...are soon parted.
His cupboard must be getting pretty full by now. Even from here I can see his Apple Watch, his VR headset, his drone, his connected doorbell, central heating control system, lighting system, kettle, toaster, fridge, scales, cooker, razor, bed, bicycle and nasal hair extractor.
Is there room for this total pile of utter shite as well, I wonder.
I bet he works for Apple or Google as well, in some 'visioneering' team, the twat. I hate him because he gives money to these charlatans.
£400 is nothing to the "stupid rich" who likely still have their servants in an updated format. This is more likely aimed at those who *like to think* they're rich by buying endless overpriced nonsense like this, then wonder why they're in debt.
The BBC had a show about shopaholics a few years back; very often it featured professionals who were on relatively high salaries and yet still on the verge of being declared bankrupt because they frittered their money away on endless fripperies like this.
All I care about is they raised $ 120 million. I mean really? Who are these investors?
Can I sell them my IoT poo machine.. you get ready made poop in a pack and you print it to designer dung shapes using a 3d printer - end result iStools.
No need to eat - comes complete with selfie stick.
Did anyone actually think this through properly? From initial inception, to practical prototype, it is full of fail. It does not solve any problem. It just creates more problems. There seems to be something about the process of extracting juice from fruit that brings out idiots .....
Back in the 1980s, no yuppie kitchen was complete without one of those awful Philippe Starck contraptions that looked like a spaceship from a bad sci-fi movie, on the granite worktop next to the Belfast sink. An iconic masterpiece of industrial design, supposedly, it got juice everywhere except your waiting glass and took too long to clean up afterwards. But at least people looked at it and said "Ooh" or "Aah". Or "Jesus, that is one ugly ..... whatever it's supposed to be ?!"
Now we get this 400-pound gadget, that can only process fruit loaded into a special plastic bag, is unreliable because it depends on an Internet connection, and still does nothing you couldn't do by hand. And since it uses non-biodegradeable plastic bags, the after-use-clean-up time is now properly measured in millennia.
With a device like this, you also ultimately end up throwing away all the benefits of economies of scale. See, fruit being mostly water, it turns out that you can dehydrate it, transport it for long distances in that state and dilute it at the destination; and these processes actually create a significant saving over the cost of transporting something that is, after all, mostly water. Sure, it's no good for the structural integrity of the fruit, but that is not so important here anyway. And, as you learned in Chemistry in the first year of Big School, one molecule of a substance is absolutely identical to and indistinguible from every other molecule of the same substance. Hydrogen oxide out of a tap is exactly the same as hydrogen oxide out of an orange, and anyone who tells you different is -- to use the scientific term -- chatting shit.
Before disposable cartons, it was actually possible to process fruit industrially, and then deliver the reconstituted juice from a local depôt to your door in glass bottles that, once they were empty, only needed to be washed and reused; as opposed to transported several megametres, crushed up, melted down and made into new bottles. In some areas, this was even done using electric vehicles!
The founders presumably thought this was a good idea. The investors may have initially thought the same.
But... California. It seems to be outdoing Florida for sharks and suckers. And they have something in common, like producing a good chunk of America's fresh fruit & veg. Ok, so some growers are diversifying due to realising exporting water isn't necessarily sustainable. But this seems an awfully complicated and ungreen way to get food to consumers. Unlike the good'ol bottle, recycling the packaging is going to be costly, and offset any time saved cleaning a cheaper juicer if you have to wash out the juice bag. And if there's no preservatives, there'll be more waste.. Or mess if they start fermenting and leak.
But most of that stuff isn't the producer's cost, they socialise that. Flogging less than a pound of fruit or veg for $5-10 is all they're interested in.
"And, as you learned in Chemistry in the first year of Big School, one molecule of a substance is absolutely identical to and indistinguible from every other molecule of the same substance."
Hmmm - maybe you should try explaining that to all those who have a lifetime of suffering due to the fact there are two different forms of the Thalidomide molecule, one of which is a mutagen and one of which isn't.
There are, in fact, a number of substances which have distinguishable 'left' and 'right' molecules.
In addition, no water molecules from fruit are not "indistinguishable' from water molecules from a tap - it has long been possible to identify how much of the water content of wine is from the grapes and how much was added during manufacture.
"water molecules from fruit are not "indistinguishable' from water molecules from a tap"
Horseshit. H2O is H2O.
Contaminants in that water, on the other hand, vary from location to location. Measure the ratios of certain contaminants, and you might be able to tell how much water was added by the wine maker. Note the might, it's not a sure bet. How do I know? I make wine as part of my living.
Also note that most wine here in California has at least some water added to the must during fermentation. If you don't add the water, you'll wind up with a "stuck" fermentation due to the high sugar content of our local grapes. See this web page for some details:
In the gripping hand, beer :-)
Yes, R- and S- thalidomide are different substances. Each molecule contains the same atoms, but they are arranged differently (therefore not identical). They are distinguible by their effect on polarised light. Not sure what point you were making
As for determining water added during manufacture of wine, that is only possible thanks to the cocktail of impurities present in the water. It's not the water molecules themselves.
...that as IT folk, we're unfortunately very well used to squeezing our own juice out regularly, and having to clear up the sad and lonely mess.
How the Juicero CEO should've sold it, is that whilst it's perfectly possible to do your own squeezing, it's much nicer to have someone else do it for you, even if you have to pay regularly for it. So I'm told.
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