back to article Microsoft raises pistol, pulls the trigger on Windows 7, 8 updates for new Intel, AMD chips

Microsoft has cut software updates and tweaks for computers powered by Intel and AMD's latest-generation processors running old versions of Windows. The Redmond giant is no longer serving software fixes to PCs and other systems that run Windows 7 or Windows 8.1 on Intel's fresh new Kaby Lake or AMD's hot-off-the-fab Ryzen …

  1. Chika
    Facepalm

    Optional

    By making sure all new PCs run Windows 10, Redmond will also be able to further inflate the usage numbers for its latest OS...

    ..and will make others delay their plans to change their hardware and still more to seek alternatives. There will always be a resistance to aggressive sales tactics like this.

    1. a_yank_lurker Silver badge

      Re: Optional

      I am not planning to buy a new processor/mobo in the near future or a new laptop. But these arrogant actions make me more resolved to avoid Slurp at all costs. Also, it makes me more likely to recommend ditching Bloat to those who can.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Optional

      There will always be a resistance to aggressive sales tactics blackmail like this.

      FTFY.

      1. Doc Ock

        Re: Optional

        @AC>There will always be a resistance to aggressive sales tactics blackmail like this.

        FTFY.

        --------

        There will always be a resistance to blackmail extortion* like this.

        FTFYFTFY

        * More appropriate

        "Extortion and blackmail are similar in concept, but there are differences between the two. Extortion is a form of theft that occurs when an offender obtains money, property, or services from another person through coercion. To constitute coercion, the necessary act can be the threat of violence, destruction of property, or improper government action. Inaction of the testimony or the withholding of testimony in a legal action are also acts that constitute coercion."

        Source:

        http://criminal-law.freeadvice.com/criminal-law/white_collar_crimes/extortion_blackmail.htm

        1. Chika

          Re: Optional

          @Chika>There will always be a resistance to aggressive sales tactics blackmail like this.

          FTFY

          Sheesh...

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Optional

      If you roll out Windows 10 today, how will you know what the future holds if Microsoft can change the rules at anytime they feel? Microsoft just killed all trust in their Desktop product.

      They can do exactly the same for a Windows 10 "Version" (1507/1511/1511_2/1607/1703) down the line as they have done for an OS version indicated by a number i.e. Windows 7.

      There is no way off the rolling MS conveyor belt, unless you jump.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Optional

        "They can do exactly the same for a Windows 10 "Version" (1507/1511/1511_2/1607/1703) down the line"

        BUT unless you are a Corporate Customer

        You are the Product and have NO choice in upgrading you will just be told the machine needs to reboot and it will have the new version weather you like it or NOT.

        Resistance is Futile You WILL be Assimilated. WE are BORG !

        1. Danny 14 Silver badge

          Re: Optional

          This affects 8.1 enterprise too. 8.1 is still in mainstream support so this kind of shit shouldnt happen. 7 is at least in extended support.

          1. Triggerfish

            Re: Optional

            I believe I am having similar problems at the moment, new laptop with a skylake processor but just can't get windows 7 to install which is annoying. Been trying for ages and it just hangs mid install (it could also be some of the laptops newer hardware though) - weirdly win7 works in VMbox perfectly well (does it co-opt the win110 drivers somehow?) so tearing hair out at moment.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Optional

              > I believe I am having similar problems at the moment, new laptop with a skylake processor but just can't get windows 7 to install ...

              If you're doing the install with the network cable unplugged, then MS can't be sending "kill" updates during the install.

              If you're doing it with the network cable plugged in however, try unplugging that first just in case.

              It does sound more like driver incompatibility problems though.

              1. DougS Silver badge

                Simple solution

                Unless you're a gamer or otherwise have a need for high end graphics performance, run Windows 7 in a VM. I bought a Kaby Lake laptop last fall and I'm running Windows 7 on it just fine (it is a corporate load I copied off the crappy laptop they provided using VMware P2V)

                I run it under Linux, but Windows 10 can run VMware Player just as well.

              2. davidp231

                Re: Optional

                And depending on how far you get... Win7 refuses to boot at all if secure boot is on.

        2. This post has been deleted by its author

        3. Youngdog

          Re: unless you are a Corporate Customer

          Vendors have already lined up 'Skabylake' - 6th Gen Processor in backward compatible 7th Gen chipset for enterprise customers not ready to make the jump from Win7. Offer only lasts until Skylakes are unavailable.

      2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: Optional

        "Microsoft just killed all trust in their Desktop product."

        Just?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Optional

          "Microsoft just already killed all trust in their Desktop product."

          FTFY

        2. another alepot

          Re: Optional

          Takes a while for some people to get wise...It'd been a pile of poo since its first iteration, back in the 1980s.

      3. G2
        Stop

        Re: Optional

        actually, according to

        https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/13853/windows-lifecycle-fact-sheet

        (scroll down to the third table on the page)

        Windows 10 1507 becomes end-of-life and will have its support retired on May 9, 2017 and only newer editions of Win 10 will remain supported.

        Microsoft is moving to windows-as-a-service support model.

        1. nijam

          Re: Optional

          > windows-as-a-service

          Windows is pretty much the very opposite of a service.

      4. TheVogon Silver badge

        Re: Optional

        "If you roll out Windows 10 today, how will you know what the future holds if Microsoft can change the rules at anytime they feel?"

        If you don't want to directly cooperate with Microsoft's plans then you can always run older versions of Windows on newer hardware as a VM using Hyper-V Server (which is completely free to use) or as a VM under the newer Windows versions ;-)

      5. EVMonster
        WTF?

        Listen you morons ....

        Everything that Microsoft do for you makes your experience better.

        I have been upgrading customer both business and personal from XP, Vista, Win 7 and Win 8, everyone (YES REALLY EVERYONE) prefers Win 10. I keep a very close relationship with all of my customers and no-one has been damaged by the SLURP or even had extra spam or directed ads or any bloody thing.

        If just one person complained about win 10 then I would say so now but they have not period.

        I do not agree with everything Microsoft do but generally they make things better not worse and its about time you moaning minnies learnt that and stopped bleating on about Win 10 and take the bloody upgrade while its still free.

        My only complaint so far was because a customer had 17 PC's upgraded from Win 7 to Win 10 and his complaint was that one PC could not be upgraded due to hardware problems (he went to PC World and bought a new PC).

        I have upgraded around a thousand machines all without too many problems and all my office is now Win 10. As a developer I find the platform to be very user friendly and on the odd occasion something breaks its gets fixed automatically by Windows Update.

        I have only ever looked after one office that runs on Linux and it was a disaster so we upgraded all PC's to Win 10 and no more grief.

        P.S. The downvote button is on the right but if you press it you are a dinosaur.

        End of line ...

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Listen you morons ....

          Happy to be a dinosaur and to let zealots like you deal with clients they do not listen to or who have so little PC experience that they didn't notice or understand the changes.

          Also happy to not tell you how to fix it when it all falls over and the people who hold the purse strings are demanding answers when the best you can offer is " wait for MS to fix it". This is the point where they realise that relying upon you and MS was a bad investment and you are the cheapest option to get rid of.

          EVMonster said "I do not agree with everything Microsoft do but generally they make things better not worse" so what is slurp an improvement upon? it was not added to provide the customer with more features or a better experience.

          What you do not understand and control, controls you and your faith over facts is never a good combination if you want to be anything other than a liability.

          I have worked with people like you quite a few time over the years and your cry of " It's not my fault, MS said it was okay" as you are escorted from the building was always met by unanimous relief from your peers. No one likes working with a blind zealot who will neither listen nor learn from their mistakes and when they refuse to accept facts which contradict their faith then they are an accident waiting to happen.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Optional

      Time to Buy a Disaster recovery gen 6 powered machine so that i have a replacement if my current machine dies (with Genuine Retail W7 Pro)

      1. Michael Habel Silver badge

        Re: Optional

        And after 2020? FYI: That's only Three Years away!

    5. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Terminator

      Re: Optional

      "There will always be a resistance to aggressive sales tactics like this."

      Those aren't sales tactics. It's the way you MIGHT treat customers who have no alternative but YOU. If you're an asshat that is. Or Micro-shaft.

    6. TheVogon Silver badge

      Re: Optional

      "Redmond will also be able to further inflate the usage numbers for its latest OS..."

      Windows 10 is already at over 400 million installs. I doubt they are too worried about the numbers...

      This will be partly about cost / resources - why invest money in new features for old OSs? And secondarily about encouraging corporates to think about their path to Windows 10 as they wont be able to get new PCs that run older OS in a supported manner for much longer.

      Once businesses move onto Windows 10, it's a continually updating platform concept - so no more expensive planned upgrade OS update cycles should be needed.... SO provided you buy into that concept (and your Windows 10 OS version eventually becomes unsupported if you don't!) then the Windows 10 approach to updates is potentially a significant TCO and ease of maintenance improvement to using Windows devices over the longer term...

    7. TheVogon Silver badge

      Re: Optional

      "There will always be a resistance to aggressive sales tactics like this."

      Erm, resistance is futile? Oh, sorry that's Google....

      Seriously it will be hard to resist if you simply can't buy the hardware?

      As to seeking alternatives, seeing as the most notable deployment of Linux in the workplace in Munich is likely being replaced with Windows after a decade of trying to make it work, I don't think too many CIOs are going to risk that option.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Optional

        "Windows 10 approach to updates is potentially a significant nightmare and constantly required additional maintenance to using Windows devices over these terms"

        ftfy

    8. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Optional

      Agree. Just daring people to move to Chromebook.

    9. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      On the other hand, if you do not move to windows 10 do you actually need a new CPU?

      Intel/AMD were a bit unwise supporting Microsoft on this front given that anything not compiled with MS development tools doesnt need new hardware on the desktop.

      Yes new shiny is nice but the price is getting a bit high when you have to give up your privacy. How about instead just keeping your working kit and not bother with limited new hardware when the old hardware still does the trick.

  2. ITS Retired

    This should help Apple and Linux

    How can Microsoft do this legally? Or does anyone care anymore.

    1. thames
      Linux

      Re: This should help Apple and Linux

      @ITS Retired - "How can Microsoft do this legally?"

      For large customers, this will be a contract issue. I suspect that Microsoft's license contract has this area well covered. For consumers, new hardware will come with Windows 10 pre-installed anyway.

      @ITS Retired - "Or does anyone care anymore."

      The Apple Mac users are whining about how Apple doesn't care about them any more and how Apple hardware is so far behind the curve.

      I guess that leaves - Linux. If you care, switch. If you don't care, then get used to Windows 10. Those are all the choices their customers have available.

      As for what I've already done personally - see the icon.

      1. JLV Silver badge
        Joke

        Re: This should help Apple and Linux

        >Apple hardware is so far behind the curve.

        As an (old) Apple MBP owner, I disagree. Recent Apple MBPs are in the middle of the pack in general.

        And, far, far, ahead in price!

        (Just ordered a 16 GB RAM update. On that model, it wasnt soldered yet. 160$ instead of 500$, a bargain).

        1. JLV Silver badge

          Re: This should help Apple and Linux

          >far ahead in price!

          hint: maybe we need a sarcasm icon?

          1. bombastic bob Silver badge
            Trollface

            Re: This should help Apple and Linux

            "maybe we need a sarcasm icon?"

            how about this one?

      2. DropBear Silver badge
        Linux

        Re: This should help Apple and Linux

        You know what, I'm fine with those choices...

      3. Michael Habel Silver badge

        Re: This should help Apple and Linux

        You forgot about FreeBSD.

      4. Degenerate Scumbag
        Linux

        Leveraging a lock-in that doesn't exist any more.

        I think these tactics are liable to backfire in a big way. The decline of the desktop has pushed computing towards a much more platform-neutral market. Microsoft has no "killer apps" any more, if they make things inconvenient for people it's just likely to drive them away.

        I've been Microsoft-free for almost 5 years now. Granted, I'm a major nerd. I first tried installing Linux in 1999. By 2007 I was using it a maybe half of the time, but always found myself reverting to Windows for something or another. It wasn't until I put an SSD in my laptop in 2012 that I decided to be brave and have a go at being completely Windows-free. I haven't looked back.

        My laptop has a legal license for Windows 7, so I could have had the free Windows 10 upgrade in the first year. It would have been a minor nuisance to swap a different HD in and restore the old Win 7 to obtain the upgrade. I thought about it, but just couldn't be bothered. My indifference to the freebie shows just how far things have come. I really couldn't think of any reason I'd ever want to use it.

    2. joeW

      Re: This should help Apple and Linux

      I'm not a huge Microsoft hater. I've eventually gotten to like most of their products, and while I've dabbled a bit in Linux it's never really grabbed me.

      Thing is, I've been using Windows 10 for over a year on one of my machines (a laptop for college stuff), and I still absolutely hate it. My main desktop at home, my media PC, and my work desktop are all still on 7 - when that reaches EOL, I really won't have any choice but to learn to love Linux.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: This should help Apple and Linux

        > ... when that reaches EOL, I really won't have any choice but to learn to love Linux.

        The BSD's are pretty good too. Just saying. :)

      2. darlingimp

        Re: This should help Apple and Linux

        ... when that reaches EOL.

        WIN7 is alive for as long as you want it to be. Who cares whats M$ defines it as.

      3. Getmo

        Re: Thing is, I've been using Windows 10 for over a year, and I still absolutely hate it.

        This is my fear. I avoided the free 10 upgrade to keep 8 on my lappy. The hate for Windows 8 is obviously real, but due in big part to Windows RT and the stupid push to "Touch-only devices first, and f**k everyone else". We could call it a Vista, but Vista broke backwards compatibility with XP applications, 8.1 was at least still compatible with earlier 7 and Vista code.

        When I got my new laptop with 8 I hated it at first because they rearranged everything worse than a caffeinated Mad Hatter yelling "Change places!" But, I eventually got used to their new locations and tweaked everything else to my liking. Windows Nine 10 had a chance to fix that, but didn't. It looks (and acts) like a horrible hodge-podge of 7 and 8 genetic mixing gone wrong with a pink tutu put on. It's like they couldn't admit replacing the Start menu with Metro Tiles was a horrible idea, and sentimental devs tried to salvage "all their hard work" and mix it back in. And now we end up with an interface that requires TWO SEPARATE tools to configure the system: "Control Panel" and "Settings".

        1. Updraft102 Silver badge

          Re: Thing is, I've been using Windows 10 for over a year, and I still absolutely hate it.

          Out of the box, 8.1 is admittedly pretty awful compared to 7... but I didn't even run Windows 7 without aftermarket tweaks like Classic Shell, 7+ Taskbar Tweaker, and a custom theme. If you do the same kind of thing with 8.1, it turns into a really decent OS... all the extra crap they hung off of it can be bypassed, blocked, removed, or otherwise circumvented, and what remains is an OS where everything is just where it was in Windows 7.

          Once you get the start menu replaced with something decent, kill the File Explorer ribbon, and eliminate the hot corners and the Charms, 8.1 is quite good in its own right... which is more than you can say for 10 even with the same tweaks applied. 8.1 has a fully-functioning Control Panel (I don't even have the Settings app linked to the Start Menu or anywhere else), the same update system as 7 (meaning the control belongs to the user, not Microsoft), the same telemetry (or lack thereof) as 7, no ads, no unwanted app installations, no unwanted uninstallations of things it wants to remove, no changing your settings on its own, no Cortana, no nagging to use Edge if you start another browser, and no permanent beta quality because of the frenetic rate of updates and a lack of professional beta testers (that's your job now, non-enterprise users!)... it's much like 7, only with 3 extra years of support and a handful of things that are nice to have but not world changers (faster boot, better task manager, better file copy/filename collision dialogs, etc.).

          There are a few areas where 7 has it better, though. The networking options have been pared down in 8.1, and they oversimplified a lot of it (ie no easy way to change an existing network's type or name). The Windows 8.1 wireless network selection dialog takes up a lot of screen space, but contains nearly no information... only SSID and signal strength. That's it.

          Windows 7's system restore allows the user to recover older versions of files easily, and 8.1's doesn't do that. Instead, you get file history, which I don't find as handy or useful (but I make a lot of backups, so I never relied on system restore anyway; it's just handy sometimes).

          The bottom line for me is six years of security support without Windows 10. I'm already set dual-booting Linux and Windows... I could move to Linux full-time overnight if I absolutely had to (which I would if 10 was the only other choice), but this way, I have all kinds of time... and the Linux devs have a lot of time to keep making Linux better even as MS keeps working to make Windows worse. Or perhaps it will dawn on someone in Redmond that treating its customers like enemies to be conquered and subdued is not a great plan. Whatever it is, I'm set for what is sure to be an interesting six years.

    3. Crazy Operations Guy Silver badge

      Re: This should help Apple and Linux

      Apple lost my vote when they decided to just up and abandon PowerPC even though they were selling machines with those chips in them just months before the announcement.

      I've been trying as hard as I can to stay away from the pool of mediocrity that x86 has become. My main desktop has been AmigaOne systems (An XE back in the day, then a 500, now an X1000), primarily running Mint or a custom-built Linux. Most of server hardware is Sparc-based, might start moving over to ARM in the future.

      I used had a late-2005 PowerMac G5 (The one with 2x dual-core chips) after a photographer friend of mine bought one then traded it to me once Apple announce they were dropping support for it.

      1. nijam

        Re: This should help Apple and Linux

        > Apple lost my vote when they decided to just up and abandon PowerPC even though they were selling machines with those chips in them just months before the announcement.

        Apple lost my vote when they decided to just up and abandon 68000 even though they were selling machines with those chips in them just days before the announcement.

    4. djstardust Silver badge

      Re: This should help Apple and Linux

      It won't help Apple.

      Their laptops are expensive and low spec.

      MacOS (or whatever it's called now) is about as much fun as Symbian S60

      1. tekHedd

        Re: This should help Apple and Linux

        I like the hardware build of my macbook, but I'm rapidly discovering that what it does best is run VNC and/or Steam Streaming.

    5. joed

      Re: This should help Apple and Linux

      Do not tempt. Newegg is selling a refurb MacBook Air for less than new iPhone. I did have a hackintosh (the disk is still around). Not exactly my preference by Windows is just about done as well. With Apple you can at least decide what data they owned.

  3. J. R. Hartley Silver badge

    How do I get out of this chicken shit outfit?

    1. Paul Crawford Silver badge
      Linux

      Embrace the penguin!

      Oh, and make sure you have a Win7 VM for all of your Windows-only stuff.

      That just leaves Win7 gamers who need high performance graphics and Windows screwed over...

      1. Vometia Munro

        "That just leaves Win7 gamers who need high performance graphics and Windows screwed over..."

        Yeah, I'm slightly peeved about that since my gaming PC could do with an upgrade but I'm in no hurry to move to Windows 10. My preference would be to not use Windows of any sort: it's only there for games anyway, but I think seeing the end of it as a requirement is still rather optimistic.

        1. tekHedd

          Gaming...

          I'm in the same boat. I see a time approaching where my old games will have to live on a legacy Win7 box behind its own little firewall, just like Win95 boxes do at some industrial sites now. I guess it's time to stop buying PC-exclusive games, which is sad.

    2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      "How do I get out of this chicken shit outfit?"

      Why are you wearing a chicken shit outfit?

      1. Eddy Ito Silver badge
        Coat

        Why are you wearing a chicken shit outfit?

        The bat shit outfit is at the cleaners?

        You probably don't want to look in the pocket.

      2. J. R. Hartley Silver badge

        Somebody explain it to her

  4. The Man Who Fell To Earth Silver badge
    Boffin

    If you are forced into Windows 10

    Instructions to turn off the baked-in spyware: https://fix10.isleaked.com/ (Warning, some browsers won't like the certificate here.)

    To get a decent free GUI: http://www.classicshell.net/

    1. Paul 87

      Re: If you are forced into Windows 10

      Jeez, how many different fecking ways have they built into this OS to sell your info

      In any case, it looks like it's time to buy up a stock of 6th gen chips and Win 7 and 8 discs.

      1. Eddy Ito Silver badge

        Re: If you are forced into Windows 10

        Any reason 7 & 8 wouldn't run on new hardware in a VM?

    2. Alan W. Rateliff, II
      Holmes

      Re: If you are forced into Windows 10

      (Warning, some browsers won't like the certificate here.)

      Not for nothing, but since free secure certificates are available these days, is a self-signed certificate even partially forgivable?

      1. Jonathan 27 Bronze badge

        Re: If you are forced into Windows 10

        No, I saw that warning and navigated away. Even my personal website has a legitimate (and free) certificate these days.

    3. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: If you are forced into Windows 10

      And good look with all those surviving the next update.

    4. Mage Silver badge

      Re: If you are forced into Windows 10

      I tried Classic shell. It's about as useful as trying to make Win 3.11 work like Win95 just using built in tools, on Win10. It's sort of useful on Win 8.x

      So it's XP and Win7 in VMs on linux, if it has no Linux native or doesn't work under Wine. Though "Broken Sword: Angel of Death" seems a bit broken no matter what I run it on. I'll just have to read books and watch vidoes for a break from working on the laptop.

    5. tempemeaty

      Re: If you are forced into Windows 10

      Just remember, "Off" ≠ "Removed"

      People forget the baked-in spyware can be "accidentally" turned back on by updates.

  5. conscience
    FAIL

    Boom! And Microsoft goes and blows another of it's feet off. No wonder they are staggering around so much.

    This is nothing but more open hostility toward Windows users. Again. I thought MS said they realised that they went too far with the forced upgrades, yet here they are STILL trying to force people into using Windows 10. Those geniuses at MS really never learn do they?

    And no, Microsofties, we don't love to hate on Microsoft "just because" - it's the other way around and it's MS who appear to be at war with the majority of their own Windows users.

    1. Nolveys Silver badge

      And Microsoft goes and blows another of it's feet off

      I don't think that snakes have feet.

      1. Mark Simon

        I don't think that snakes have feet.

        To begin with, they were lizards …

        1. Captain DaFt

          Re: I don't think that snakes have feet.

          "To begin with, they were lizards …"

          Heh, considering the gatling-like rate they're blasting feet, surely they started out as a millipede! ☺

    2. veti Silver badge

      The thing is, the people who react with hostility are a relatively narrow set. They're people who: (a) currently use Windows, (b) know what a "version" is, (c) don't like the changes in W10.

      That's quite a small minority of Windows users. Then, this particular change only affects the even smaller subset who are trying to upgrade their hardware.

      Microsoft probably figures they can afford to offend that group, because the upside is that it removes a lot of confusion and conflicting information for the (much larger) group who are interested in upgrading their hardware, or who are buying a new computer, possibly for the very first time (and always remember: at a conservative estimate, approximately 30,000 people created their very first Windows login yesterday), but don't have any strong opinion on the merits of Windows versions. It's MS's business decision to make, and I for one think it's reasonably likely that they do know what they're doing.

      1. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge

        The thing is, the people who react with hostility are a relatively narrow set. They're people who: (a) currently use Windows, (b) know what a "version" is, (c) don't like the changes in W10.

        Sadly true. Most of the people who use PCs think they run "Google" and that their browser is "the internet". They likely wouldn't know the difference between XP and W10, and they're Microsoft's primary target customers.

        1. SolidSquid

          In this one case I'd actually disagree. I've got an aunt who's completely non-technical, got herself a nice laptop to replace an old desktop and found it so difficult to use she's largely made do with her tablet. After showing her classic shell to make it more like "what she had before" she's actually using the laptop again. Even for non-technical users, the extent of the changes in 10 are a pain in the ass

          1. Danny 14 Silver badge

            No. The hostility is because they have shown their hand. This shows they will do the same again to whatever version they like. 8.1 is still in mainstream support and is still available from oems. It is a dick move.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          "Sadly true. Most of the people who use PCs think they run "Google" and that their browser is "the internet". "

          Its these people who should be the easiest to "retrain" to use any other OS be it LINUX, OSX, Chrome OS, Android ETC as they can use most if not everything online or in a browser window (local webserver) so software compatibility will be less of an issue. and with Office 365 even people who "NEED" MS Office can still be OS independent. its just getting to a critical mass of users using alternative Operating Systems in the home and or Work place to shift the balance.

          Employers used Microsoft in the Distant past so people started using it at home as that's what they knew from work which created the critical mass for microsoft operating systems. then Employers were happy that they didn't need to spend money on training users as the users had Microsoft at home.

          unless there is a Financial reason or a shift change in user mentality and OS usage at home Corporates will still Pay MS for their software as its easier, Faster and cheaper than training staff. If everyone started using Linux or another OS at home then corporates would start to shift as long as their software was supported and it met security compliance requirements.

        3. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          a high percentage of users will not use 1% of the OS features.

          they start their PC they open a browser (usually whichever is default installed) and thats it everything else is done in a browser. email, shopping, cat videos...........

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            "a high percentage of users will not use 1% of the OS features.

            they start their PC they open a browser (usually whichever is default installed) and thats it everything else is done in a browser. email, shopping, cat videos..........."

            Which is why a Chromebook/Chromebox would be perfect for this. 2 second boot time, no gnarly update process, no need for antiviruses, a readonly, digitally signed runtime OS, nothing can modify it, nothing can inject itself into it.

            Whilst nothing is 100% bulletproof, so far, it's impenetrable. Google issued a challenge to hackers. None have succeeded...

        4. bombastic bob Silver badge
          Linux

          Most of the people who use PCs think they run "Google"

          well, then THAT is a MARKET OPPORTUNITY for Inexpensive (yet powerful) Linux machines!

          Mint with Mate or Cinnamon for a shorter learning curve.

          1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

            Re: Most of the people who use PCs think they run "Google"

            "Mint with Mate or Cinnamon for a shorter learning curve."

            Or KDE which can be made to look very much like a classic Windows desktop.

        5. davidp231

          Or those that think farcebook is the Internet, and don't even know what an email address is.

      2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        "the (much larger) group who are interested in upgrading their hardware, or who are buying a new computer"

        Even Gartner have noticed that this is no longer a large group.

      3. Triggerfish

        I'll agree that there is a large percentage of windows users who won't care, but MS is also pissing off people who would normally be in that group from the complaints I see. MS probably has figured out this is an acceptable loss.

        This last bit though

        It's MS's business decision to make, and I for one think it's reasonably likely that they do know what they're doing.

        Yeah but doing what for whom? I don't think it's the user.

        1. Eddy Ito Silver badge

          It seems to me that it's being done so they can shift resources around so they can make their focus more cloudy. They missed the internet ship and had to play catch up, then missed the call to mobile phones and couldn't catch up now they don't want to fall that far behind with the cloud. If that means kissing off the folks who want to stay on Win 7 or 8 then that seems fine, MS doesn't really care because I'd wager they plan on being cloud based and largely OS agnostic. They'll keep some form of Windows around if only to give everyone basic access to their cloud offerings.

          Eventually, I imagine it's going to be a subscription model for most all of MS products and companies won't mind because it will allow them to pare their IT departments back. If they could get all their typical heavy workstation applications working in the cloud then many companies won't have much of an IT department at all.

      4. Roland6 Silver badge

        That's quite a small minority of Windows users. Then, this particular change only affects the even smaller subset who are trying to upgrade their hardware.

        Remember this announcement was made primarily to business users. I suspect MS are wanting businesses to stop deploying new Win7/8 desktops/laptops well before EoL and so avoid another XP style EoL debacle. I anticipate MS will be making a similar announcement concerning server OS's.

        So I suggest the message isn't to a small minority of Windows users, but to very significant proportion of Windows users who are currently running Win7/8 and may well be planning their migration to Win10. Basically, from a procurement viewpoint, given systems based on 7th generation chips are now entering the market, this year (or even 2~3Q17), MS are effectively saying, you need to start your migration (away from Win7/8) this year.

        1. a_yank_lurker Silver badge

          @Roland6 - Home and SOHO users if they buy new kit will buy one with X preinstalled, whatever X is. For them, a mixed OS situation is probably very manageable even if the OSes are as disparate as Linux, Windows, and MacOS. It depends on the number of actual machines that must be attended to and what software is being used. Large organizations, paradoxically, need to deploy a standard software kit which means they have to be careful what OS is rolled out to the users. Given some critical software still used by businesses runs on XP or earlier large companies will be wary of rolling out another OS because of MS' whims; too much risk.

          The only other group who is affected by this negatively will the DIY people who build their own boxes. They will need to make a decision on what to do if they want to use the latest processors. But pushing this group away from Bloat is surprisingly risky. They are not large in number but much larger in influence. If they start ditching Bloat to Linux or BSD they are likely not coming back to Bloat. Also, they are more likely to recommend Linux or BSD to their family and friends as an option to consider as they get more familiar. The longer they stay from Bloat and more they work with Linux/BSD the more they will want to work with Linux/BSD than Bloat.

        2. TheVogon Silver badge

          "So I suggest the message isn't to a small minority of Windows users, but to very significant proportion of Windows users who are currently running Win7/8 and may well be planning their migration to Win10. "

          It's mostly a message to corporates. The majority of home users never update the OS the device came with unless it's free / done for them as per Windows 10.

    3. Michael Habel Silver badge

      Blowing their feet off?! Hardly after all wheres the money to be made from Windows 7. I mean they want you for their (Cr)AppStore! I can't wait for the Day when they [MicroSoft] decide to prevent you from installing any Drivers, and other sundry Software. For your protection! And, points you to their said (Crappy)AppStore instead.

  6. Tom 64
    WTF?

    I don't get it...

    By screwing people over like this, they are just going to push people to mac or linux.

    Dick move Microsoft, dick move.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Joke

      @Tom

      "Dick move Microsoft, dick move."

      As well in bird culture I can imagine! Errr, never mind, I've been watching too much Rick and Morty as of late. As you were ;)

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I don't get it...

      Unfortunately, a significant number of the MS audience will go to PC World and hear that this means they really need to us a new PC, extended warranty and all, as their PC is "out of date" - when it's the OS that is the issue, with the company that took money for it now discontinuing support and also refusing to release all of the info needed for third parties to offer support instead.

      1. Charlie Clark Silver badge

        Re: I don't get it...

        Unfortunately, a significant number of the MS audience

        Not really: PC sales continue to decline and the most recent report (check for skid marks) suggested only business customers were buying new machines in any volume.

        I don't know anyone in the retail channel but my most recent to the German equivalent of PC World showed a poor selection of cheap and underspecc'd machines and little interest from customers. It wouldn't surprise me if the selection gets smaller or even if there is a rebranding as customers switch off their computers for good.

        Gaming is obviously still a large, dedicated market but there's no reason to think this won't also be eaten by the mobile revolution: imagine a beefed up version of the S8 dock just for gamers…

  7. Carl D

    And yet another MS stuff up

    "For Microsoft, however, the policy will mean fewer headaches for its programmers and less time spent wrangling code to work with various configurations"

    Wanna bet?

    Apparently, even older processors are being caught up in this BS as well.

    http://www.infoworld.com/article/3189586/microsoft-windows/microsoft-plan-to-force-pcs-with-newer-processors-to-windows-10-backfires.html

    I've just bought a new Gigabyte motherboard with a 7th generation processor. The driver disc that came with it has Windows 7 drivers for 6th but not 7th generation processors. It's almost like there's some sort of conspiracy between MS and the processor manufacturers.

    And, I'm guessing I won't be getting any Windows Updates for it either. Mind you, with the "quality" of MS's patches lately, that might not be such a bad thing.

    Well, when I get around to putting my new build together, if I can't run Windows 7 on it I guess I'll have to install as a dual boot with an 'airgapped' Windows 10 and an online only Linux Mint.

    1. Alan W. Rateliff, II

      Re: And yet another MS stuff up

      I completely fail to understand why Microsoft, once again, has elected to go to desperate lengths to exclude portions of its customer base and what the possible legitimate benefit could be.

      The same crap happened with Server 2003 and Windows XP x64. As XP x64 and Server 2003 were built on the same kernel, they both had the same support road-map which extended one year beyond 32-bit XP's expiration date. Then almost last minute Microsoft decided XP x64 would die at the same time as its cousin. Indeed, Windows Updates failed to indicate available updates for XP x64, however if you manually download and installed Server 2003 x64 updates all was well.

      Windows 7 has an extended support road-map expiration of 2020, still three years out. While many systems built on older Intel and AMD CPUs can feasibly last that long, Microsoft is for all intents and purposes reducing its promise on supporting what remains a viable alternative to its Lastest-and-Greatest(tm).

      Likely, though, it will not make a difference to Intel, AMD, or Microsoft in the forward march of progress. The Gigabyte motherboard and Gen7 Intel CPU I wanted did not come with Windows 7 drivers (I am told by a reliable source this situation was demanded by Microsoft,) but it was demonstrably possible to load Gen6 drivers during OS installation. Since I was moving an existing installation with no easy way to know up-front if I could get the drivers going I wound up sticking with a Gen6 setup. Did Intel notice this lost sale of new product? Nope.

    2. Triggerfish

      Re: And yet another MS stuff up

      Just a heads up if you are having to upgrade from win 10 home to pro, for some reason it won't let you join a domain because of well bugs, it won't even give you the option, even through powershell. You'll have to do a clean install.

      Also if needing to deal with MS support on issues like this, it's far easier to go and call the sales team and lie about evaluating a lot of copies for a SME and get them to scare up support, than it is to actually get someone who is of use on their support line or even the right dept (I got re-routed 4 times then cut off, twice). Mention things like "I guess from this evaluation, you guys really want to sell Win7" & "thinking we might be better of porting our existing 7 licences into Linux VMs".

    3. davidp231

      Re: And yet another MS stuff up

      The stuff on mobo driver discs is usually years out of date anyway, so that's no surprise. One would at least think that newer iterations of the same board would have more recent drivers dumped on the disc.

      Then again, there isn't that much point to them anymore I feel - networking generally works straight out of the box these days so there's nothing really stopping one from just downloading the current drivers for everything anyway. Or even doing it before swapping in the new mobo if possible.

  8. MakingBacon
    Windows

    And that just made things easier for me

    No new CPU, no new PC and definitely NO windows 10!

    I'll use Windows 7 until my current PC goes *BANG* and there's no more spare parts to be had.

    MS, Intel and AMD can go roger themselves with their collective cores!

    1. janimal

      Same Here

      I was just mulling over updating my ageing system (Phenom x6) even though it is actually running fine. but I might as well wait as well now.

      I have managed to switch pretty much everything I do to linux now. Most computers in our house are now running Mint.

      I have a few games I like to play on PC (flight sims, project cars, assetto corsa, skyrim, GTAV) but I can go back to (non MS) consoles for games if Microsoft are going to insist. I have been buying some linux games from Steam as well.

      I really think MS execs would be truly shocked at the level of hatred Microsoft engenders in ordinary users let alone those of us who have had to work with (or around) their products and watched their shameless, offensive, marketing shenanigans.

      1. Charles 9 Silver badge

        Re: Same Here

        "I really think MS execs would be truly shocked at the level of hatred Microsoft engenders in ordinary users let alone those of us who have had to work with (or around) their products and watched their shameless, offensive, marketing shenanigans."

        Compared to the millions of sheep out there who just go about their lives, we're probably just noise. Otherwise, they would've listened to us by now. But we don't represent enough money to them.

  9. The Average Joe

    Well after that...

    the license will make it illegal to use your d*ck and each time you do you have to pay a $10 royalty because Windows is fun and so is S*x. So now the only way to get off is to have a windows 10 machine as you can get off with no $10 fee. And yes you have to pay in vegas too if you use a prostitute. Just saying...

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Well after that...

      WTF are you talking about? Microsoft hate is becoming a very strange fetish for you guys...

      1. Pompous Git Silver badge

        Re: Well after that...

        "Microsoft hate is becoming a very strange fetish for you guys..."
        It seems MS have a strange fetish wanting us to hate them. Very weird if you ask me...

        1. TRT Silver badge

          Re: Well after that...

          255 shades of 999999

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Well after that...

        WTF are you talking about?

        TFTFY.

      3. Triggerfish

        Re: Well after that...

        I still don't really.

        But since using Win 10 it's getting a little easier.

      4. bombastic bob Silver badge
        Joke

        Re: Well after that...

        "Microsoft hate is becoming a very strange fetish for you guys..."

        whip me, beat me, make me run Windows 10!

        as I do the masochism tango!

    2. hplasm Silver badge
      Gimp

      Re: Well after that...

      "Windows is fun"

      Weirdo.

  10. anoco

    Too big to care

    Microsoft along several other big corporations finally realized that there are enough sheep all over the world for them not to worry about making anyone happy.

    Now that the tables have turned, it's up to the sheep to make Microsoft happy. I'm sure there's someone in Redmond thinking of charging the sheep a larger service fee if they don't use their windows 10 that much.

    Some sort of reverse usage charge. The less they use, the more it costs. They will be forced to please the MS gods...

    And it's all Steve Jobs fault!

  11. aregross

    NT

    Not Today

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Windows 10 Creators Update CU (NT) system.

      "NT

      Not Today"

      Prefer to use it's abreviated name: Windows 10 CU (NT).

      You have to ask why (and importantly who?) are making Microsoft's life so difficult, to stay on this path.

      An edition of Windows 10 without it's backend slurping Telemetry/Keylogger code, aka. A paid Red Hat Edition for everyone, rather than a free experimental Fedora type version of Windows 10 / Windows 10 Pro.

      Now, Microsoft is that so difficult to get your head around? The current approach is almost that of a Sociopath.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Windows 10 Creators Update CU (NT) system.

        "Now, Microsoft is that so difficult to get your head around? The current approach is almost that of a Sociopath."

        But did you know that the best leaders tend to be sociopaths: the types who have the drive and the nerge to insist things get done? You pretty much have to be a sociopath to get into politics, after all, and without politics, things don't get done, like it or not.

        1. Roo
          Windows

          Re: Windows 10 Creators Update CU (NT) system.

          "You pretty much have to be a sociopath to get into politics, after all, and without politics, things don't get done, like it or not."

          Not everyone needs a sociopath to tell them what to do, and quite frankly politicians are rarely needed for doing useful stuff like changing tires or wiring up a house. :)

          1. janimal

            Re: Windows 10 Creators Update CU (NT) system.

            Indeed, Belgium managed without a government for several years & nobody really noticed.

            1. Charles 9 Silver badge

              Re: Windows 10 Creators Update CU (NT) system.

              Belgium's also about the size of Rhode Island. Now imagine if a country like China (nearly two billion people, heavily male, and with nukes) had to run without a functioning government for a few years. I don't know if the world would survive the experiment.

              And given the attitude of the average human being, I believe YES you DO need a beneficent sociopath to lead them or things get ugly.

      2. handleoclast Silver badge
        Linux

        Re: A paid Red Hat Edition

        You can have a FREE Red Hat Enterprise Linux.

        It's called CentOS. http://www.centos.org

        It's RHEL in all but name and various bits of branding (logos and stuff like that).

        Scared Red Hat will go after CentOS and shut it down? That's how Microsoft would handle a similar situation, if somebody found a legal way of distributing free Windows.. Microsoft would start with threats of legal action. If that didn't work, parallel attacks:

        1) Actual legal action, starting off with a restraining order stopping the distribution (if they could get it). Even if Microsoft had no chance of winning the case on legal merits, they'd take legal action simply because with deep enough pockets you can force the other guy to throw in a winning hand.

        2) Bribing/blackmailing governments to get the law changed to remove the loophole that was being exploited.

        3) Attempt to hire the guys behind it with a contract that stopped them redistributing Windows for free. If Microsoft can get away with suitable wording in the contract that bars them from ever redistributing free Windows if they no longer work for Microsoft, fire them shortly after hiring them.

        How did Red Hat deal with CentOS? They hired the guys behind it. Hired them to continue doing it. CentOS (free RHEL in all but name) is supported financially by Red Hat. Red Hat are paying people to give away RHEL-in-all-but-name.

        Crazy? Nope. Apart from getting mega kudos out of it, RH benefit in another way. CentOS gets RHEL onto home desktops. Initially desktops of techies who have some old hardware and like playing with stuff just for the hell of it. From there it spreads to the friends and relatives of those techies. And from all those it can gain workplace acceptance: techies tell bosses there's an alternative to Microsoft; non-techies inform bosses they know how to use those alternatives. Bosses then pay for RHEL because they like the warm, comfortable feeling that comes from support and Red Hat are the people best able to support RHEL.

        Red Hat is not a software company that also offers support, it's a support company that also offers software it knows how to support. CentOS is a loss leader, a marketing strategy. A strategy Red Hat stumbled over rather than planned, but they've embraced it anyway. Get ordinary people using CentOS and eventually companies will pay for RHEL.

        Got an old machine that's gathering dust? Give CentOS a try. Or Ubuntu. Or Debian. Or whichever Linux distro takes your fancy. On really old h/w you might need CentOS 6 (still supported and being updated). With CentOS 7 you'll probably want to install Mate or Cinnamon because CentOS 7 comes with Gnome 3, which bears too many similarities to Windows 8 for comfort.

        If I'd written something like this four or five years ago, there would have been many nasty replies and near-infinite down-thumbs. These days it will get a better reception (I hope). And the reason opinions have changed is Microsoft themselves. Vista, Win 8, spyware OS, shitty licensing, forcing updates on people who don't want them, tricking people into updating by perverting the way dialogue boxes behave, etc. Microsoft's bad behaviour has become so egregious and so blatant that even former enthusiasts have turned against them.

        1. Jay 2

          Re: A paid Red Hat Edition

          Your analogy is slightly broken in that under the various software licences involved RedHat have to make the source of RHEL publicly available. So it is quite legal for anyone to take that source and make their own version as long as they don't mention RedHat or use any of their proprietary code. That is why OS such as CentOS, Oracle Linux and Scientific Linux exist.

          It gets a bit tricky after that. CentOS are mostly onside with RedHat, and I believe various bugs/fixes found/squashed are then sent back upstream to be folded back into RHEL. Oracle Linux is a slightly different matter in that they do quite a bit of their own messing around (very customised kernels etc) but as they're Oracle they don't feel the need to contribute much back to the upstream. Though in a rather strange move (for money-grabbing Oracle) you can download and use the bulk of Oracle Linux completely for free, it's just the support and some of the proprietary software you need to pay for. I don't know too much about Scientific Linux, but they seem to send stuff back upstream too.

          1. handleoclast Silver badge

            Re: A paid Red Hat Edition

            My analogy DID specify a hypothetical "what IF somebody found a way of distributing free copies of Linux?" An extreme case. So implausible as to be almost impossible. Yet it was based on what Microsoft has done in the past to stuff it sees as impeding its profits. Microsoft has done a lot worse than that, such as stealing the code to Stacker, and releasing it as DoubleSpace (which had a tendency to corrupt your disk drive) just because it didn't like a third party making money by selling stuff that corrected Microsoft deficiencies.

            You're right, Open Source licences mean Red Hat MUST make the sources available. Doesn't mean RH has to make things easy. When RHEL 5 came out, the tool chain available with RHEL 4 could not be used to build RHEL 5 from source. Bit of a bootstrapping problem there. The CentOS guys incrementally added patches to the RHEL 4 tool chain until they got something that could build the RHEL 5 tool chain. It wasn't easy. Buying RHEL 5 to get the tool chain would have been a lot easier (but required spending money and might have led to worries about breaching a Chinese wall).

            To get back to my original point, Red Hat didn't have to hire the CentOS guys. Outside of Open Source it would be a crazy thing to do. Even inside Open Source not many would have considered it (at least, not without RH's example). But they did, and as a consequence you, or I, or anybody can have RHEL-in-all-but-name for free.

            As you say, the lines between CentOS and Red Hat are a little blurred. Technically CentOS is downstream of Red Hat, but probably not as far downstream as anybody else. As far as bug reports go, the CentOS team is effectively acting as a first-level filter, so anything they pass upstream is probably worth quicker attention.

            In actual fact, CentOS is valuable to Red Hat for other reasons. It ports to h/w architectures RH don't support. It releases upgraded/additional s/w that can be used by people with "real" RHEL. So for some things Red Hat is downstream of CentOS.

            Just to reiterate my main point, if you like RHEL (as opposed to Ubuntu or whatever) but can't afford it for home use, there's CentOS which is RHEL in all but name. Well, you don't get a support contract, but if you want RHEL for home use because you're familiar with it from work, that's not a problem.

          2. a_yank_lurker Silver badge

            Re: A paid Red Hat Edition

            The example of Red Hat is valid in that they do not have to support CentOS or Fedora. But they use both for different purposes. CentOS used by those who either want to mess around with Red Hat on the cheap or those who do not have the money for official support. Fedora is their stable but in advance of RHEL version. I emphasis it is a stable distro not some late alpha almost beta release like Bloat 10 CU is.

            SUSE Linux does something similar in supporting openSUSE as the stable for the community option.

        2. Roland6 Silver badge

          Re: A paid Red Hat Edition

          Crazy? Nope. Apart from getting mega kudos out of it, RH benefit in another way. CentOS gets RHEL onto home desktops. Initially desktops of techies who have some old hardware and like playing with stuff just for the hell of it. From there it spreads to the friends and relatives of those techies....

          Just a variation on the marketing theme used in the past by Digital, Apple and Microsoft. Although MS were perhaps the most successful with the loss leader approach in the 80's & 90's, that is until they ceased turning a blind eye to piracy and introduced product activation and checks to prevent multiple installs and so people could no longer simply copy a set of disks...

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Moan, moan, moan... things move on, deal with it. There are bigger problems in the world.

    1. Def Silver badge

      You must be new here.

      Bitching about Microsoft and especially Windows 10 on The Register is the 21st century equivalent of Last of the Summer Wine.

      1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        "Bitching about Microsoft and especially Windows 10 on The Register is the 21st century equivalent of Last of the Summer Wine."

        Given that it's supposed to continue being churned out for ever with periodic updates Windows 10 is the 21st century equivalent of Last of the Summer Wine.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "Moan, moan, moan... things move on, deal with it. There are bigger problems in the world."

      Translation: Don't worry your little heads on how we collect, manipulate the data we collect on you.

      Actually, when you really look at this. Are there really any more important things in life than trust / trusting a fellow human being? / (and now machines/AI too).

      Windows 10 (in combination with Powers that be) is "untrustworthy" in what it is forcing/doing.

      Should I really except having the digital equivalent of CCTV in a public place, operating internally on my computer too, to "Protect Me"?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        "Should I really except having the digital equivalent of CCTV in a public place, operating internally on my computer too, to "Protect Me"?"

        Yes, because we've demonstrated we're as a whole incapable of doing it ourselves. All that's missing is the alien overlords to swoop in to take away our nukes and everything and rule over us like we deserve.

  13. Spotswood
    Megaphone

    Question

    Just asking: apart from discussed transgressions etc, does anyone want to buy a brand new PC and stick an old version of Windows on it? And if so, why?

    1. Pompous Git Silver badge

      Re: Question

      "does anyone want to buy a brand new PC and stick an old version of Windows on it? And if so, why?"
      I've done it before. When Vista was the latest windows I built a new machine. I installed WinXP on it because I already had a WinXP license and it ran all of my then current software. Vista would have cost me extra and potentially wouldn't run all of my then current software.

      As it happens I eventually upgraded to Win7; it broke PageMaker and my backup software.

    2. theOtherJT

      Re: Question

      Because I have approximately 100 administrative and support staff all of whose desktops are reaching the end of their service life according to our hardware upgrade policy. That's 100 new machines to buy, and I'd really rather not have to arrange to separate them from the couple of hundred new linux desktops that are due at the same time. We've always run the same hardware across the board.

      Now, why not "Just upgrade them to windows 10"? Because they'll all hate us. The support staff have absolutely no interest in changing anything at any time ever. They just want to get on and get their jobs done with everything staying the same as it has been forever. I know that's stupid, but there we go. It'll cause a massive, massive headache for IT support to bring in Windows 10. We're going to have to do it some day, sadly, because we have a ton of Windows only software that we can't realistically replace, but half that software isn't certified for Windows 10 and we've no roadmap from our suppliers as to when it might be.

      Change for change sake - especially when Win7 is in LTS until 2020 - is A Bad Thing.

      1. Pompous Git Silver badge

        Re: Question

        "The support staff have absolutely no interest in changing anything at any time ever. They just want to get on and get their jobs done with everything staying the same as it has been forever."
        I suspect that goes for the users too. That's not stupid; that's sensible. If it's not broken, why fix it and frustrate the fuck out of everyone who just want to get their work done?

    3. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

      Re: Question

      Think of the PC/Laptop as a Car.

      The CPU is the Engine.

      There are a good few people who still like to tinker with the engine. Even if today it is just getting the EMS Remapped.

      So move to the PC and replacing the CPU with a more modern one is like replacing the old 100bhp engine with one from the GT version that output 110bhp.

      MS is akin to Ford/GM/whoever making it impossible to put the 110bhp engine into a car that left the factory with the 100bhp engine fitted by changing the engine mounting points and other stuff.

      It sucks!

      I'm so glad that I left MS behind last year. After 25 years of having to use MS crap for work, I'm free

      {cue The Who song of the same name}

      Don't regret it one little bit.

      1. Def Silver badge

        Re: Question

        Think of the PC/Laptop as a Car.

        The CPU is the Engine.

        There are a good few people who still like to tinker with the engine. Even if today it is just getting the EMS Remapped.

        So move to the PC and replacing the CPU with a more modern one is like replacing the old 100bhp engine with one from the GT version that output 110bhp.

        MS is akin to Ford/GM/whoever making it impossible to put the 110bhp engine into a car that left the factory with the 100bhp engine fitted by changing the engine mounting points and other stuff.

        That has to be the worst attempt an an analogy ever.

        If the CPU is the engine, then surely trying to put a newer CPU on an old motherboard would be closer to installing a new engine, and that's almost never possible because processors switch to different sockets, or support different chipsets and memory every couple of years. Last time I checked, Microsoft don't make generic processors or motherboards, so exactly what this story has to do with them I'm not sure.

        As for engine mounting points, there is no standard for these things at all, so there are thousands of combinations of engine and chassis that would never work in the first place.

      2. tygrus.au

        Re: Question

        The analogy would be more like:

        1) making roads that only allow <3yr old cars allowed to drive on them;

        or 2) making cars that can only drive on freeways.

    4. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: Question

      Good questions. After all there are better options to stick on it.

    5. Triggerfish

      Re: Question

      Because we have things that run on win7 that do not run so well on win10, VPN is being a pain for instance, can't get it working on our existing VPN yet and it's taken a bit of faffing around already.

      Because it has so so much spyware.

      Because it even installs all the candy crush, xbox, bing news ads type crap on the professional version which is supposed to be office use and has to be cleared off. (and probably again after another "here have an update whether you like it or not" session).

      Because with this OS MS have moved ownership of the system away from the users to themselves with the amount of reach into it, and the overrides they have given themselves.

      1. davidp231

        Re: Question

        You get the same crap on Enterprise too.

  14. Zog_but_not_the_first Silver badge
    Devil

    If Microsoft was an airline...

    It would surely be United.

    Good luck trying to "re-accommodate" my computer.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: If Microsoft was an airline...

      I'm guessing I'll now read about a user "Zog_not_but_the_first" elsewhere (DM anyone?) who has a dubious history, is this the same user Zog_but_not_the_first?

      Or is someone trying to discredit this user already?

      1. Zog_but_not_the_first Silver badge

        Re: If Microsoft was an airline...

        @Anonymous Coward

        Eh?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: If Microsoft was an airline...

          "@Anonymous Coward

          Eh?"

          ----------

          “There is presently confusion about whether the man on the United flight was actually David Thanh Duc Dao, quite possibly another person entirely to David Anh Duy Dao, the man with the criminal records.”

          http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/debunkers-debunked-mail-online-stands-by-investigation-into-past-of-united-airlines-passenger-david-dao/

          (His past, matters not, what matters is how this guy "Dao" was treated by United Airlines, for just deciding to fly United)

    2. N2 Silver badge

      Re: If Microsoft was an airline...

      I would rather walk

      1. Charles 9 Silver badge

        Re: If Microsoft was an airline...

        "I would rather walk"

        Sorry, but I'd rather the world didn't come to an end just yet since I don't recall anyone else able to walk on water.

        1. Kiwi Silver badge
          Coat

          Re: If Microsoft was an airline...

          Sorry, but I'd rather the world didn't come to an end just yet since I don't recall anyone else able to walk on water.

          I do it all the time.

          Why, just this afternoon we had a light sprinkling of rain, just enough to make the roads and footpaths wet.

          (So obviously, when I was walking along the footpath I was walking on water!)

  15. Pompous Git Silver badge
    Linux

    Improvements?

    "Those machines will now be required to update to Windows 10 in order to obtain future improvements."
    "Improvements like replacing a working video driver with one that doesn't work?

    As for Older hardware, I've got a Mac SE that's still going strong ~30 years on. It's quite a while since I felt the need for more speed from a PC and I'm only running an i5 2500k. If I want it to go fasterer, I'll overclock it.

    1. Alan W. Rateliff, II

      Re: Improvements?

      As for Older hardware, I've got a Mac SE that's still going strong ~30 years on. It's quite a while since I felt the need for more speed from a PC and I'm only running an i5 2500k. If I want it to go fasterer, I'll overclock it.

      Right, as an Amiga user running AmigaOS 3.9 on a 50MHz 68060 I understand the argument against the need for speed. However, the browser and many other programs I use cannot handle TLS 1.2 easily. (Though an update to AmiSSL was recently released which seems to have eased this quite a bit.)

      A Mac SE would support OS7.5, maybe 8, correct? Out of curiosity, what kind of development has happened in this sphere to help these operating systems keep up with modern Internet security and performance requirements? Has yours been upgraded beyond the 68000? I know my 7MHz 68000 Amigas were damn near useless for browsing even in the late 90s and it took an upgrade to a 40MHz EC030 to moderately mediate the issue.

      1. Pompous Git Silver badge

        Re: Improvements?

        "A Mac SE would support OS7.5, maybe 8, correct? Out of curiosity, what kind of development has happened in this sphere to help these operating systems keep up with modern Internet security and performance requirements? Has yours been upgraded beyond the 68000?"
        It's running System 7.5. The SE was the third iteration of the original compact Macs and isn't upgradable. The Mac II offerings are considerably more expandable but I haven't had one fall into my lap yet. If I had any old single density floppies and installed a floppy drive on one of my machines I could do sneakernet. Word 5 runs fine on the Mac and the keyboard's pretty good.

        1. davidp231

          Re: Improvements?

          8 requires an '040 processor, but can be fiddled with to run on an '030. Also,the SE does have an expansion slot, and you could upgrade the floppy drive (an upgrade which later became standard, on the form of the SE FDHD, which is what mine is. The best upgrade for it though, is the mobo from an SE/30, along with the ROM from a Mac IIx/IIci so 32bit software behaves properly. Which would in turn let you put 8 on it for giggles. You also get to play with much more memory, if you can find sufficient 30pin SIMMs - SE capped out at 4MB, and the SE/30 at 128MB.

  16. Pompous Git Silver badge

    A funny thing happened...

    ... on the way to the Forum. My daughter's ancient Dell laptop died, so we are sending Mrs Git's Macbook to her; she lives in New Zealand. My daughter, not Mrs Git. Mrs Git's perfectly happy with the ASUS eeeBox. Talk about older, slower hardware!

    Anywho, I reinstalled Win7 on the Bootcamp partition and followed the prompts for upgrading IE. That sent me to a MS website that generated a warning that access was blocked because "potential source of malware". You hafta laff :-) MS being honest... I left it on IE 8 and installed Chrome.

    1. veti Silver badge

      Re: A funny thing happened...

      Huh? Nobody has any business to be running IE8. Windows 7 supports up to IE11, which is an infinitely better browser than 8. (Personally I even prefer it to Chrome.)

      1. Pompous Git Silver badge

        Re: A funny thing happened...

        "Nobody has any business to be running IE8. Windows 7 supports up to IE11"
        So why were MS blocking it? I tried... but not very hard I must admit.

        1. TRT Silver badge

          Re: A funny thing happened...

          I have to admit, I've not tried IE11. Or 10. Or 9.

          1. BongoJoe

            Re: A funny thing happened...

            I have to admit, I've not tried IE11. Or 10. Or 9.

            I think that Visual Studio 6 stops working after IE9.

            1. TRT Silver badge

              Re: think that Visual Studio 6 stops working after IE9.

              It's not that. It's just, fool me once...

      2. Ian Emery Silver badge

        Nobody has any business to be running IE8.

        PLEASE tell the Chinese government that, their website booking forms dont work properly unless you are using IE7, 8 or 9.

        I spent DAYS trying to figure out why the webpage crashed on every browser I tried, and it ended up costing me £100's, as I had to physically GO to London in the end, as they also dont answer the phone or reply to email.

        (Before anyone says I am wrong, this is for a specific set of booking forms, not the general Tourist Visa forms; you cannot even SEE these forms if you visit the website in English).

  17. jeffty

    There's always a way round it...

    ... If Win7/8 aren't supported with new CPUs, I'd wager the enterprise equivalent (Win2008 or Win2011 HS) is, and will probably run with new hardware no problem. Looking on the net, you can get a single Win2008 OEM licence for about £99.

    The next time I build a new PC for games, I'll try out one of my MSDN keys to see if it works and how games react to it, if it works without any problems I'll get the server licence instead.

    That being said, if the support is provided for the Server editions, it can't be that hard to backport it to Win7? Surely some enterprising soul would be able to reverse-engineer the drivers/kernel modules and port them across?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: There's always a way round it...

      It can be done and I have done it and it works perfectly.........see here http://www.win2012workstation.com/ Links for other versions at the bottom of the pages. Anon as don't want to be "got by M$"

  18. guyr

    Year of the Linux desktop, finally, from Microsoft

    I have Windows 10 on one refurb system I bought cheaply (AMD), but installed the necessary aftermarket software to make it work like Windows 7. Works acceptably, but this is not my primary system.

    I'm planning on replacing my dual socket main system once AMD Naples arrives. I will NOT be paying $185 US (whatever) for Windows 10 Pro, so I can then spend my time to make it work like Windows 7. Instead, I will finally switch to Linux with the Mate UI as my full time OS. I haven't done this up to now because Linux always lagged behind on playing media (video and audio), but those issues have largely been worked out.

    Microsoft is really hurting themselves by using these strong-arm tactics to force everyone onto Windows 10. While it's been free up to now, I'm guessing Microsoft ultimately wants to implement a yearly subscription. Count me out.

    1. Charles 9 Silver badge

      Re: Year of the Linux desktop, finally, from Microsoft

      "Microsoft is really hurting themselves by using these strong-arm tactics to force everyone onto Windows 10. While it's been free up to now, I'm guessing Microsoft ultimately wants to implement a yearly subscription. Count me out."

      They'll do it because they have a captive market. Too many people are stuck on Windows-ONLY software that has no viable substitutes (like gamers--too many won't work on Linux even with help from WINE--or those with custom jobs that can't afford a redo).

      1. guyr

        Re: Year of the Linux desktop, finally, from Microsoft

        Charles, you are correct. We were in that position at my last job - really, only MS Office Pro. The software stack we used for our software development was platform agnostic (Java); though the GUI developers preferred Windows - apparently the tools are further ahead there compared to the implementations on Linux (if any). I'm retired now, and Libre Office works fine for me. So I can make any choices I want.

        I'm surprised Munich is going back to Windows after enduring the pain of switching to Linux. Maybe this will make them reconsider that decision.

        1. Pompous Git Silver badge

          Re: Year of the Linux desktop, finally, from Microsoft

          "Libre Office works fine for me."
          Works fine for me too; better in some respects (no stupid ribbon). However, compatibility is a problem.

          Mrs Git sent me a two page Word document to fine-tune. Libre Office interpreted it as a six page document! So faut mieux I had to open it in Word.

        2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

          Re: Year of the Linux desktop, finally, from Microsoft

          "I'm surprised Munich is going back to Windows after enduring the pain of switching to Linux."

          ITYF it's their political PHB who wants that.

    2. davidp231

      Re: Year of the Linux desktop, finally, from Microsoft

      It was free from announcement up until July last year. Unless you have access to Dreamspark Premium.

  19. PTW
    Mushroom

    Dear Microsoft shill,

    I see you are busy with the down votes, but not actually trying to defend an action you know is indefensible.

    Microsoft begone! -------->

  20. Polardog

    Fedora is my main os, i have kept a win 7 installation but i am going to nuke this too.

    Ms can do one.

  21. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Easy solution

    Just don't buy new hardware.

    PC sales are dead already before this dumb ass move by Microsoft to force people to win10 by artificial means.

    1. Pompous Git Silver badge

      Re: Easy solution

      "Just don't buy new hardware."
      Why not? It sounds like a great time to buy a Hackintosh :-)

  22. datafabric
    Black Helicopters

    Something Fishy

    Something is not right, perhaps there are more to the OS then collecting the analytics.

  23. ilmari

    Just got a brand new Kaby Lake windows 7 laptop 2 weeks ago. Timing sucks.

    I needed the newest Siemens TIA portal software for work. It supported Windows 7 and 8, 64-bit only. My trusty engineering laptop ran 32-bit windows.

    Call to supplier and I get a Windows 7 pro kaby lake laptop the next day, because skylake and kaby is all they have. Well, they only had one model with Win7 license anyway.

    A week later, and Siemens finally gets head out of ass and releases Windows 8.1 and 10 compatibility (well, atleast until creator's update comes and kills it).

    1. d3vy Silver badge

      "Just got a brand new Kaby Lake windows 7 laptop 2 weeks ago. Timing sucks."

      To be fair it was announced in January 2016 that this was happening...

    2. Updraft102 Silver badge

      Nah, it just makes a little extra work for you.

      Remember, the update rollups for 7 are cumulative. This means you can install all the updates you need, with the April rollup (that contains the blocking code) last.

      When another update comes out, uninstall the April rollup, install what you need (if there are updates other than the rollup), then install the latest rollup. The latest rollup will contain all of the updates from the other rollups, so you don't need to install any but the latest one (which, of course, will also contain the blocking code).

      The next month, uninstall whatever is the latest rollup you have installed, install the non-rollup updates, then install the latest rollup again. Lather, rinse, repeat.

      It probably won't be necessary that long before someone introduces a third party program to bypass this restriction. If not, though, it's not that hard to do one extra uninstallation per month.

  24. Novex

    If only...

    ...Microsoft offered a paid for version of Win 10 that could have all the telemetry home calling switched off, and allowed proper user control of updates, then Win 10 would get more installs (and if you don't like the interface, use something like Classic Shell?).

    Instead MS seem hell bent on this demented trajectory of 'We want your data! All of your data! Now!'

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: If only...

      I would actually pay good money to buy a Five year Licence for that edition of Windows 10

      I would like a perpetual licence but thats just wishful thinking isnt it?

    2. Charles 9 Silver badge

      Re: If only...

      "Instead MS seem hell bent on this demented trajectory of 'We want your data! All of your data! Now!'"

      Probably because they can get more out of the data than we can ever afford to pay. Why do you think Google and Facebook NEVER provide the option to do telemetry-free browsing for a price? Because practically no one would be able to afford it.

  25. Ian Emery Silver badge

    Have Faith

    Just like someone broke the artificial DX logjam Micro$hit tried on XP years ago, I am sure someone will figure out a way to get Win7 to work on the new chips.

    And if they dont...... WSell, after the way M$ have treated their customers over the last few years, they shouldnt be surprised if anyone with an ounce of nounce either installs pirate copies or a flavour of Linux.

    (And fuck you, for deciding 3 of my 5 genuine Win7 installs are fakes - just because I refused to update them with your Win10 malware)

    My main PC is going to be wiped and a fresh Win7 install loaded after a BIOS clock error* made the OS decide it was fake, triggering the crippleware effect.

    *I forgot to reset the clock after a BIOS reset.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Potential Glitch with Windows 10 AU Pro licence , upgrades to Win10 CU.

      Nothing's changed.

      Testing Windows 10 Creators Update this week (public RTM 11/04/2017 release-ISO 15063), I started an upgrade on Windows 10 Aniversary Update. This machine had a free digital entitlement Pro licence from an upgrade of Windows 7 Pro.

      I cancelled the update before accepting the licence, it then rolled back and deactivated a fullly working Windows 10 Pro AU, killing the Pro Licence. Troubleshooting this, it says the machine only now only has a licence to run Windows 10, not Windows 10 Pro.

      So if you have a "Digital Entitlement" Pro Licence of Windows 10 AU, take care starting/cancelling the Windows 10 CU Update, you might end up with a machine with the wrong 'rolled back' Windows 10 Licence if you cancel.

      Looks like a potential glitch with the update. I've only seen this when you cancel an update, part way.

      For all the hours, there was little to show for the final Creators Update. Microsoft should really state a tic/toc approach to updates, because this update seems to be an under the hood (adding 'analytics' - spyware), type update.

      Really, there is not much to show visually, compared to Windows 10 AU.

      Alternatively, just stick with Windows 7 or whatever, as long as it works.

    2. Scouts-Many-Marshes

      Re: Have Faith

      "And if they dont...... WSell, after the way M$ have treated their customers over the last few years, they shouldnt be surprised if anyone with an ounce of nounce either installs pirate copies"

      Correct me if i'm wrong but isn't pirating any version of Windows, especially the newest Windows, 10, helps their cause?

      Even if it's pirated software and you didn't pay Microsoft anything, they win in the end. As you'll be increasing the ranks of Windows users and it's the number of users that matters to software developers, no?

  26. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Microsoft just a has been

    Microsoft is becoming like IBM, they used to say "No one ever got fired for buying IBM" the same was said of Microsoft. The world moves on Microsoft is desperately trying to hold onto its dominance like IBM did. Windows is becoming a secondary OS, some thing to run in a virtual machine when using legacy applications.

    Those managing IT and Windows specialists are in the same position other IT specialists when IBM was the market leader, they are confused and clinging onto what they know. The world moves on.

    1. Marty McFly
      Holmes

      Re: Microsoft just a has been

      Funny you should mention IBM. At Microsoft, the Chairman of the Board is John Thompson. IBM alumni. Still has blue ties in his closet.

      Coincidence?

  27. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Two words - Linux Mint

    Problem solved.

    Gamers - use a console.

    1. Charles 9 Silver badge

      Re: Two words - Linux Mint

      You can't play WoW on a console, and the likes of Overwatch separate by platform, and none of the console versions support KB/M input essential if you're a pro. IOW, NOT an option.

      1. Zimmer
        Happy

        Re: Two words - Linux Mint

        You can't play WoW on a console, ......

        But you CAN play DotA on MINT (using STEAM, of course)...

        1. Charles 9 Silver badge

          Re: Two words - Linux Mint

          And TF2 and all that, I know. But the Linux Steam library is but a pale imitation of the main Windows library, and most of the new games will never see a Linux version (like Fallout 4, Bethesda has sworn off Linux as too fragmented), and WINE on them can be very hit or miss. As for Blizzard games like WoW and Overwatch, I hear caution is advised because while WoW can work, there are conflicting reports concerning Overwatch, plus the rumors that Battle.net will ban WINE users.

          1. Kiwi Silver badge
            Linux

            Re: Two words - Linux Mint

            (like Fallout 4, Bethesda has sworn off Linux as too fragmented)

            Yes yes as you keep saying ad infinitum... Over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over... Pushing an agenda much?

            Anyways.. As I posted a few mins ago, not everyone is a gamer. Most of the games these days seem to be FB-based stuff anyway. My uncle uses his machine for web&email, document authoring (nothing requiring more than a text editor) and some basic accounts. No need for the games you incessantly go on about.

            And with MS making it harder and harder for games writers to get customers, the games writers are going to have to think seriously about supporting a decent, fast, stable OS and dumping the insecure crap that comes from MS.

            And before you waffle on about "too entrenched" have a good look at history. Lots of "too entrenched" technologies have quickly gone from being the be-all and end-all to a mere memory. Windows is a horse-and-cart. With square wheels. And only a chihuahua available to pull it.

            1. Charles 9 Silver badge

              Re: Two words - Linux Mint

              "Yes yes as you keep saying ad infinitum... Over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over... Pushing an agenda much?"

              Yes, if a company as motivated as Valve (they knew this was coming) can't convince the likes of ZeniMax (parent of Bethesda), that tells me the market simply isn't there. And millions of people are still paying in the neighborhood of $10 per month to keep playing a game that's still pretty much supported on only one platform. Like I said before, trying WINE is risky as you risk a ban last I heard. Like you said, not everyone's a gamer, but plenty are, and some are even professional gamers. They do it for a living. And that pretty much means Windows machines. Yet pro gaming leagues don't seem too concerned about Windows. Put it this way; I'll be convinced Windows is fading when the firms that do this for real life money (IOW, people with actual skin in the game, so to speak) defect. And I haven't seen that yet.

              "And with MS making it harder and harder for games writers to get customers"

              Oh? DirectX 12 ring a bell? Haven't heard much of a counter from the Kronos group yet with Vulkan.

              "And before you waffle on about "too entrenched" have a good look at history. Lots of "too entrenched" technologies have quickly gone from being the be-all and end-all to a mere memory."

              Like what specifically? I seriously doubt anything can upend a market that quickly. Especially a very mature market? I mean, many places still run coal power plants, for crying out loud. If Windows is a cart with square wheels, the ground's probably sandy and the dog's actually a mastiff cross (think ancient Egypt; they knew about wheels but didn't use them as much).

              1. Kiwi Silver badge

                Re: Two words - Linux Mint

                that tells me the market simply isn't there.

                "There will only ever be a market for maybe 6 computers"... "No one would ever want to send messages to no-one in particular" etc etc (paraphrased). Lots of people have said "the market isn't there", and the technology is now something most people use every day and take for granted.

                some are even professional gamers.

                I don't own a hammer Maybe if I was to become a professional builder I might want one. IOW, "professional gamers" can buy the tools they need when they need them (BTW, professional gamers are starting to get sick of MS as well and are beginning to look elsewhere - turn off your negativity field and have a look elsewhere, you might see that talk about finding alternatives is increasing - and like saddle makers, if writers don't shift from a dying platform then they'll see custom reduced to nothing (yes, remember that the "internal combustion engine" would never take off, horse (& cart) would be around forever!)

                DirectX 12 ring a bell?

                Nope, it doesn't.

                Like what specifically? I seriously doubt anything can upend a market that quickly. Especially a very mature market?

                Nah, I'm not doing something that would take half a second of thought or a few seconds with Google if the thought is to hard for you. There are a number of "mature" markets that died out virtually overnight when other technology replaced them.

                1. Charles 9 Silver badge

                  Re: Two words - Linux Mint

                  ""There will only ever be a market for maybe 6 computers"... "No one would ever want to send messages to no-one in particular" etc etc (paraphrased). Lots of people have said "the market isn't there", and the technology is now something most people use every day and take for granted."

                  WHEN were those statement said exactly? It's not like ""There will only ever be a market for maybe 6 computers" and then there were six million overnight. Many of these things take time, like the apocryphal 640KB statement. 1MB was a lot of memory back in the 1980's. It made sense THEN.

                  "Nah, I'm not doing something that would take half a second of thought or a few seconds with Google if the thought is to hard for you. There are a number of "mature" markets that died out virtually overnight when other technology replaced them."

                  Then NAME SOME. I'm not going to do your legwork. It's a matter of principle. If you did this tactic in a courtroom, you'd be laughed out. YOU threw the lure, YOU reel it in.

                  "and like saddle makers, if writers don't shift from a dying platform then they'll see custom reduced to nothing"

                  You may be interested to know that Muir & McDonald Leathers are still very much in business. Their specialty happens to be the very thick steer leather that's preferred by saddle makers.

                  1. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

                    Re: Two words - Linux Mint

                    "WHEN were those statement said exactly?"

                    You may want to look into the definition of "ever", as in "only ever".

  28. Roland6 Silver badge

    Microsoft raises pistol to it's own head, pulls the trigger..

    Windows 7 platform requirements as specified by MS:

    1 gigahertz (GHz) or faster 32-bit (x86) or 64-bit (x64) processor*

    * Prior versions of Windows, including Windows 7 and Windows 8.1, have limited support when running on new processors and chipsets from manufacturers like Intel, AMD, NVidia, and Qualcomm.

    {https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/10737/windows-7-system-requirements]

    So if Intel/AMD say a brand new processor is an x64 then Windows 7 should run on it. What MS are trying to say here is that an Intel/AMD x64 processor is not the same thing as a Microsoft x64 processor and that the new MS x64 processor specification will be applied retrospectively.

    Surely MS's lawyers got sight of this announcement before it was released, because can't see how MS will be able to pull the rabbit out-of-the-hat on this one...

  29. Mage Silver badge
    Linux

    Stupid

    Also when you consider originally the project was CPU and HW agnostic.

    It will drive people to Linux, especially appliances, servers and users with just thin clients (Web or remote desktop).

    1. Charles 9 Silver badge

      Re: Stupid

      But for those stuck with Windows-ONLY software (that isn't WINE-friendly), they're kinda stuck, you know? Microsoft figures they've got a captive market, and from the looks of things, they're at least partially right given there hasn't been a tidal wave of defections yet (for the aforesaid reasons).

      1. DropBear Silver badge

        Re: Stupid

        When all else - absolutely all else - fails and literally nothing else but Windows Proper would work, one might want to give ReactOS a try. Yes, it's still all over the place and I really wouldn't try to use it as a main OS, but various bits and pieces kinda started to run on it lately, and it's not like you have much to lose at that point by trying...

      2. Charlie Clark Silver badge

        Re: Stupid

        But for those stuck with Windows-ONLY software

        Not really, modern hardware imposes a minimum penalty when running VMs so need for toys like WINE.

        1. Charles 9 Silver badge

          Re: Stupid

          Unless you need a lot of RAM, which leaves little for the host to run, or your job is 3D-heavy as 3D virtualization (especially on Windows guests) isn't all that mature (passthrough is only available for Linux guests). This pretty much precludes Windows gamers since performance-intensive games will probably require BOTH.

      3. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: Stupid

        "But for those stuck with Windows-ONLY software (that isn't WINE-friendly), they're kinda stuck, you know?"

        And for stuff that only runs on older versions of Windows?

      4. Down not across Silver badge

        Re: Stupid

        But for those stuck with Windows-ONLY software (that isn't WINE-friendly), they're kinda stuck, you know? Microsoft figures they've got a captive market...

        For now.

        The more Microsoft does these kinds of shenanigans, the more people will defect even if it means forgoing some windows-only software.

        Eventually we might get to the point where vendors responsible for said software see the market share starting to shrink sufficiently that they will be forced to start offering non-windows versions if they want to stay in business.

        1. Charles 9 Silver badge

          Re: Stupid

          "The more Microsoft does these kinds of shenanigans, the more people will defect even if it means forgoing some windows-only software."

          The problem with your theory is that, for many, that Windows-only software isn't just some nice little thing; it's the linchpin to their whole operation. This is especially true of expensive custom jobs that will be expensive again to replace (probably TOO expensive to afford).

          Like I said, captive market.

          1. Kiwi Silver badge
            FAIL

            Re: Stupid

            The problem with your theory is that, for many, that Windows-only software isn't just some nice little thing; it's the linchpin to their whole operation. This is especially true of expensive custom jobs that will be expensive again to replace (probably TOO expensive to afford).

            Like I said, captive market.

            No. Because those systems don't get switched to new OS's. When it's as expensive as you're making out, there is much effort put into keeping the hardware static in case things break. Rather an old DOS machine talking to your factory than an upgrade taking your factory offline for a week. Or an hour. Or sometimes even a few minutes.

            So not "captive market". No market at all.

            1. Charles 9 Silver badge

              Re: Stupid

              "So not "captive market". No market at all."

              Microsoft still wins, then. They're the status quo.

  30. Version 1.0 Silver badge
    Linux

    The American Attitude

    This is so like the American attitude on everything - such a bunch of whiny little babies. Windows 10 is destined for the slag heap of history because you can see that Microsoft's attitude is only going to get worse - I can't see how they could ever claw their way back to being liked.

    Thank the heavens there's an alternative.

  31. Starace
    Alert

    I blame Sad Nad

    Sad Nad getting to the top is when it all *really* started to go pear shaped, what with the forced 'upgrades' and all.

    We went from poor product planning and some odd ideas to a company actively hostile to its customers and turning its back on ways of working that had been in place for years.

    Bring back Gates and Ballmer!

    1. LDS Silver badge
      Joke

      Re: I blame Sad Nad

      That happens when you put at the helm someone from a culture where cows are more sacred than human beings. But someone has to tell him that as soon as customers become cash-cows, they become sacred as well...

  32. Wade Burchette

    It hasn't affected me

    I have a new Asrock X370 Taichi motherboard with a Ryzen R7. And I am still using Windows 7. All this blackmail hasn't affected me. I just received my April all-in-one security update. (Side point: I hate how Microsoft now bundles all security updates into one package.)

    But I was wise enough to block several updates of Microsoft: 971033, 3013531, 3021917, 3068708, 3080149, 3147071, and 2952664 (which keeps coming back from the dead worse than the GWX one did). These are the telemetry updates, which sends your hardware back to the Borg.

    I also block a ton of Microsoft spying websites at the router. I found those domains at this website: https://github.com/WindowsLies/BlockWindows.

    But you can still give a big middle finger to Microsoft. You just have to get the updates another way. WSUS Offline is the other way.

  33. Pete 2 Silver badge

    MS delivers improved user experience.

    > The Redmond giant is no longer serving software fixes to PCs and other systems that run Windows 7 or Windows 8.1 on Intel's fresh new Kaby Lake

    So does this mean I won't get any more annoying messages about upgrades. No more pregnant pauses when the box boots up? No more tedious waiting for it to shut down?

    If so, BRING IT! it sounds to me like this is the best reason yet to upgrade my CPU.

  34. imanidiot Silver badge
    Windows

    That doesn't seem right...

    it looks like a convenient way of forcing people onto the newest build of its operating system.spyware and ad-slinging platform

    FTFY

  35. DropBear Silver badge
    Trollface

    Chronology of stickers on cutting-edge hardware:

    "Compatible with MS-Windows 3.11!"

    "Compatible with Windows 95!"

    "Compatible with Windows XP"

    "Supports Windows 7"

    "Supports Windows X"

    "Supports only Windows X"

    "Supports Windows 7"

    "Supports Windows 7"

    "Supports Windows 7"

    ...

    1. dbtx Bronze badge

      Many of them said "Designed for..." and I said "that's nonsense"-- typically operating systems are designed for machines...

  36. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    Looking at it from MS's PoV, they expect your to run Office 365 on their boxes, other stuff on Azure on their boxes. So what difference can a bit of "telemetry" make?

  37. earl grey Silver badge
    FAIL

    " fewer headaches for its programmers"

    Well, boo hoo Microsoft. Should we call the WAHmbulance for you now or later?

  38. Charlie Clark Silver badge

    What I don't understand

    Assuming that the descendants of Windows NT still use something like HAL for abstracting the hardware, why there should be problems like this at all. I can understand Windows 7 not receiving hardware-dependent acceleration that only newer chips support, but for the rest? It's x86_64, SSE, SIMD, etc.

    If I had a Windows environment I'd very strongly consider switching to a stripped down unix just for running Windows VMs.

    1. LDS Silver badge

      Re: What I don't understand

      Exactly. But for some very specific code - i.e. some very low level kernel code, Hyper-V and maybe .NET jitters - what could be so CPU specific?? Especially for code that still needs to run on older models, and for security fixes that have very little to do with CPU architectures and a lot with higher level protocols and implementations. Or MS wants us to believe that SMB is implemented directly at the CPU level in handcrafted assembly??

      It looks just another lame excuse to desperately push customers towards Windows 10.

  39. Updraft102 Silver badge

    Worse than WGA

    Remember WGA, or Windows Genuine Advantage? It was the predecessor to the current Windows Activation Technology. It blocked optional updates and any kind of extras you may want to download from MS, but not security updates. Even if MS thought your Windows XP was pirated, they still wanted you to be up to date on security patches... not out of concern for the pirates themselves, but for the legitimate Windows customers who could be negatively impacted by the unchecked spread of malware. It was simply too important to keep everyone possible patched and secure for MS to use withholding the security updates as a stick to beat on the pirates.

    Now, though, it's apparently okay to withhold updates for whatever reasons MS wishes.

    MS took away the ability for Windows 10 users to turn off updates, supposedly because they were too important to allow people to turn them off... but not so important that MS can't use it as a stick to force people to adhere to the EULA Microsoft marketing plan, which says that even though Windows 8.1 is still in mainstream support (with this being a perfect example of the kind of thing that should be covered by mainstream support) and 7 is in extended support, and even though there's nothing in the EULA of either that would allow MS to arbitrarily decide it can't be installed on certain hardware, you're not *allowed* to install them on 7th generation CPUs, simply because because MS says so.

    1. Mage Silver badge

      Re: and 7 is in extended support,

      Yet Lenovo (thankfully) was still selling Win7 pro last November, though you had to pay extra compared to Windows 10.

      I've rebooted only a few times into Win7 rather than Linux Mint, to convert some files to format a Linux program can read.

  40. Marty McFly
    Mushroom

    Wrong quote

    El Reg quoted: "This enables us to focus on deep integration between Windows and the silicon, while maintaining maximum reliability and compatibility with previous generations of platform and silicon."

    It should have read: "This enables us to focus on deep integration between Windows and your wallet, while maintaining maximum profitability by selling all the previously captured information about you"

  41. Howard Hanek Bronze badge
    Unhappy

    Two Words

    AI - Microsoft

    The oxymoron of oxymorons. The pinnacle of impossibility. Elevating the BSOD to new impossible heights of indecipherability.

  42. Jim-234

    The new world where you own nothing - you are the "revenue item"

    It seems too many technology companies are now on the bandwagon of your "customers" are not actually "customers" but are rather your "generators of revenue stream" and you milk everything you can from them either by selling all their habits & private data, or forcing them into direct paid subscription models.

    In my opinion, it seems the world is racing down a path back to the days of a small group of mega rich overlords who owned everything and then the masses of poor peons slaving away for subsistence, always being renters never having any property they actually own.

    Instead of rich families it's now Global Mega Corporations.

    Before long I think a lot of the software / technology world will be divided into 2 camps:

    The crowd who thinks it's normal to basically have your credit card hooked up to your computer & everything you run is on subscription (or "free" if you give them all your personal information)

    The enlightened and stubborn rebels who use open source software & still can build & repair their own devices, running non-commercial software.

    You notice also this big "cloud" push... why have your own servers and your own data... just give us all your data and pay us whatever we demand for access to it & having it work... it's perfect... you are never going to not pay us are you? So the plan is something like 3 big mega corporations (probably microsoft/google/amazon) hold most of everybody's data and most of the servers.

    Microsoft doesn't care about the few enlightened rebel technical users raging against the corporate machine. They are fully committed to using their OS near monopoly leverage to turn into the next google/facebook. They don't want to sell you a new OS, they have to "give" you the OS and in return lock you into being their "revenue generator" with ads, selling your info / habits, pushing other subscription games & items etc. They need to get a guaranteed income stream from their users & nothing will stand in the way.

    The problem is they will probably get away with it, as too many people now think as long at it's "free" well then who cares how much they are selling me as a product to everyone. For most of the average folk, they are unwilling to move off "windows" even if you help them.

    Once upon a time you bought your operating system & then when a new one came out, you bought it, if you decided it was worth your money (or got it as a bundled price with a new PC when you decided it was worth upgrading). Pretty much yours to keep and use as long as you saw fit. You gave them a 1 time payment up front (either directly or via a middleman) and were set.

    Now you can't actually buy the Microsoft Desktop operating system outright any more, you continuously pay for it. Either by them shoving ads at you, slurping your data to sell to others & being a test base for stuff before they roll it out to the corporate customers. Or you pay a constant yearly licensing fee if you are big enough to have them deem your wallet big enough for the corporate version.

    Similar to what Adobe did a few years back... NO we WON'T sell you our new updated software, it's rent it, forever paying or it stops working. So no more actually having to come out with a better product to get people to pay, just sit back and let the cash roll in and outsource someone to insert a few new things from time to time.

    Another example is Quicken with their Quickbooks product... Sorry we are going to stop supporting payroll, tax updates and other things (that you still pay for each year), unless you "upgrade" to our latest version... Latest version however is a subscription only product and if you actually dig in, they will confirm that if your subscription stops... so does the program and all your data is kind of stuck.

    The John Deere tractor mess is another example... buy the tractor... but unless you pay us continually for "maintenance" the tractor will refuse to run and you have to sign away your rights to sue us if you loose a crop because we couldn't be bothered to get to your farm on time to press the "we got paid" button on your tractor.

    1. Charles 9 Silver badge

      Re: The new world where you own nothing - you are the "revenue item"

      And you're saying this like it's anything new. This is pretty much standard human behavior because, in the end, barring crisis, we'll find a way to gain a leg up on our neighbors so that it's OUR kids in the next generation, not THEIRS. It's damned near instinct. And it has a historical basis.

  43. julian.smith

    Microsoft is still a thing? Who knew

    I jumped to Linux Mint 18 months ago

    Never looked back.

    1. TPX

      Re: Microsoft is still a thing? Who knew

      I am going where you are going. I have talked to a lot of people who have gone there. Being loyal to Microsoft is a losing game.

  44. Michael Sanders

    optimize?

    Did Microsoft laughably just say they are planning on optimizing windows to the silicon? Well that will be a first.

  45. Crazy Operations Guy Silver badge

    Supported processor revisions

    What the hell happened to x86 while I wasn't looking? Wasn't the whole point of x86 that you could run code on both older -and- newer chips so long as the supported the features you need?

    I remember being able to run old OSes on hardware that was made 10+ years after the OS was last compiled and everything working just fine. So why wouldn't Windows 7 work on any of the new chips? Unless Intel and Microsoft are purposefully making them incompatible, there is no reason for it.

    1. Roland6 Silver badge

      Re: Supported processor revisions

      >Unless Intel and Microsoft are purposefully making them incompatible

      Currently there is no evidence that Intel or AMD are deliberately doing anything to make 7th generation chipsets incompatible with previous x86/x64 chipssets.

      1. Crazy Operations Guy Silver badge

        Re: Supported processor revisions

        Yeah, nothing deliberate but it seems they aren't exactly breaking a sweat to ensure compatibility...

    2. dbtx Bronze badge

      Supposedly Windows 8+ won't install on Pentium 4 or earlier (except maybe some Prescott silicon, I forget) because it absolutely required support for the NX bit a.k.a. hardware-moderated data execution prevention. I think. So the kernel was simplified a bit by just not even allowing for the other case and always using NX. That's obviously completely different from cold-shouldering a combination of new hardware and old software in the security patch department.

      1. LDS Silver badge

        I may understand desupporting *older* CPU in 10 - but how they could actually not support newer ones that are backward compatible in older OS?

        It MS had said 7 and 8 won't support any new CPU feature (just like 7 never got Hyper-V and is stuck on Virtual PC, or Vista and XP never supported SSD disks) we could have understand, but it's really "difficult" to understand why they are unable to support newer processor at all which are perfectly able to run code for older ones perfectly.... it's just really a weasel marketing move.

  46. thx1138v2

    How does that great big target bulls eye feel?

    By doing this Microsoft has just painted a huge bulls eye on every non-10 Windows computer for hackers to target. Future exploits will be disclosed and only blocked/resolved in 10. So all a hacker has to do is find the earlier OS's and he's got a winner.

    They should probably move their HQ to Italy, maybe Corsica to be consistent. Win10 or WinX, as I call it, has become the "expediter" who helps your project along by not burning down your office. Extortion by any other name.

    1. dbtx Bronze badge

      Re: How does that great big target bulls eye feel?

      Only if you run a brand new CPU, though. Not every non-10 Windows computer is getting hit, just the ones that apparently want/need/hope to be the fastest.

  47. Dwarf Silver badge

    Trust

    Trust is earned over years, but destroyed in seconds..

    Nice move Microsoft. Why not try the other approach - listen to you customers and what they really want

    (BTW, its not Windows 10)

  48. ph0b0s

    Not quite right

    "The ruling will no doubt irk some users – such as PC gamers – who have until now opted to run Windows 7 on their new machines and prefer the interface of the older OS over that of Windows 10."

    PC gamers already got screwed by Windows 10, at launch, as only it has Directx 12. And yes I know game support is limited, but it won't always be. It has been enough of a driver so that Windows 10 is now the majority OS for PC gamers (source: Steam monthly surveys).

    Both of these two practices, plus the retrospective adding of Windows 10 spying and cumulative updates into 7 and 8.1, goes to show how MS works. Instead of making a great product that would draw users in, they first try to give the new OS away for free. And when that does not work they retrospectively bork the old OS. Says it all really....

  49. Old one

    Just pushing people to move to Linux..

  50. bjr

    This policy allows Intel to clean up the x86 architecture

    Intel's and Microsoft's dependence on each other has had a significant negative effect on the performance of their respective products. In Microsoft's case they introduced a lot of x86 specific dependencies into Windows which made sense at the time they did them but in the long run made it very difficult to port Windows to other architectures. When they did the ARM port they cleaned up that mess so WIn10 is now much cleaner than older versions of Windows. On Intel's side they've had to maintain backward's compatibility to every generation of MS OSes. As a result modern Intel processors carry around a lot of obsolete instructions and memory management modes that should have been removed years ago. With Microsoft enforcing a policy that only Win10 is supported on Kaby Lakes and beyond Intel is now free to do a much needed spring cleaning on their architecture.

  51. Kev99 Bronze badge

    Whatever happened to warranty of merchantability laws? Restraint of trade? As to being able to run on older chip, BOVINE EXCREMENT! If a chip doesn't need a certain microcode or DLL, it doesn't call it. Simple.

  52. John Munyard

    Given that Windows 10 now routinely feeds all sorts of usage and application data backto the Microsoft mothership whether you want it to or not this does seem a rather arrogant move.

    All your base are belong to them I guess, as Apple aren't any better.

  53. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

    Since the OS couldn't care less what exact silicone it's running on, this is obviously just another A-hole tactic by MS. I'm getting so tired of these sh*theads.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      It definitely DOES care or there would've been a proper ARM version of Windows years ago.

  54. JJKing Bronze badge
    Big Brother

    Microsoft pervert deviants?

    Did Microsoft laughably just say they are planning on optimizing windows for the silly con?

    There, FTFY.

    Purchased a new(ish) laptop for my wife due to the old one being well..old. It was a new one just couldn't get the latest model due to it having the Gen 7 CPU that MS wouldn't let it run Windows 7 (or wouldn't let Win7 run on it). Even with Classic Shell on Windows Puke, it still wouldn't have looked like her old desktop. It went from a 1366 x 768 to a 1920 x 1080 res and she had issues with that. Linux is going to be a real challenge when the time comes.

    In 2004 I tried to get a school I supported to change to Linux. It would have saved them $12,000 per year but even though the pulldown menus still had File, Edit, View, Tools etc, the IT teacher didn't like it because it looked different. I wonder if they would consider it now with all the spying MS is doing on their data. If a paedophile did what MS is doing to children's data, the pervert would be locked up and rightfully given a good kicking frequently while inside. Why is Microsoft allowed to be exempt from predatory stalking?

    1. Pompous Git Silver badge
      Angel

      Re: Microsoft pervert deviants?

      "If a paedophile did what MS is doing to children's data..."
      I met a Catholic priest who was obsessed with the papal succession. I don't understand why he got so upset when I called him a Peterphile.

  55. Kiwi Silver badge
    Linux

    By making sure all new PCs run Windows 10, Redmond will also be able to further

    push more and more people to Linux.

    Last weekend my elderly (as in early 70's) Uncle brought his desktop down for some H8 fixing, and he brought a spare laptop to try Linux on as well (older Tosh that ran Vista in it's heyday). He wanted data recovered from the machine first.

    5 mins after installing Mint on the laptop he was asking if it could be put on the desktop as well. I told him to try it for a few weeks first.

    Instead I spent my easter Monday making a backup (so nice of MS to improve the backup tools in 8.1 and later... Oh wait no, the got rid of the no-frills but functional backup tools that came with 7! Everyone must use MS's fogcloud, can't do a bare-metal backup anymore!) of his system (7 (yes, seven partitions on the Acer machine, one of which was the typical 50% of HDD "Data" partition few users ever knew how to use, but kudos to Acer for trying to get people to segregate data and OS), then a little bit installing Linux. And a while trying to be sure that windows wasn't hibernating (even with "fast boot" and other related options turned off... FUCK YOU MS! That shit just makes things harder!), then a quick bit importing docs and mail. He loves it, and has said he finds it much easier to use than Windoze. And of course I find it much much much much much much much much easier to fix, especially with my limited home bandwidth.

    So thanks MS. Your wonderful treatment of users has just added another Linux convert, and just made my support life much easier. No more registry shit, no more malware, easy reliable updates that take seconds to detect and at most a few minutes to install, seldom a restart (only for some really core bits of the OS, not for a minor change to a fucking browser you numpties!). One more convert, lot less stress. Keep up the good work MS!

  56. Jonathan 27 Bronze badge

    If you don't like Microsoft's tactics, now is the time to switch to an alternative OS, because running outdated operating systems just gets harder and harder.

  57. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I actually kind of miss Steve Ballmer now

    He wouldn't have done deplorable things like this.

    This is planned obsolescence on steroids.

  58. TPX

    I picture it this way, there is a committee of insensitive Nazi-like people sitting around a big table in Redmond ignoring everything that has made people loyal to Microsoft. They just want to push their bloated, clown colored Windows 10 on people who have no use for all the bloat. Those people also don't want to be tracked with every move they make. Microsoft does not have the right to take control of the computer I buy with my money! If they want to send me a computer with their software on it gratis, then that's a different story. There must be consumer laws enacted to protect the consumer from these behemoth computer companies going all Darth Vader on us. This is why a I bought a computer that will have nothing but linux on it ....... and slowly I will get out of the clutches of the Microsoft oligarchy to have some control of what goes in with things that I pay money for in my own home.

POST COMMENT House rules

Not a member of The Register? Create a new account here.

  • Enter your comment

  • Add an icon

Anonymous cowards cannot choose their icon

Biting the hand that feeds IT © 1998–2019