Might I suggest free hammocks for all users?
Microsoft's revealed the specs for some forthcoming hardware and the tale of the tape is impressive. At the heart of the device will be a system-on-chip packing eight custom x86 CPU cores clocking up to 2.3GHz apiece, plus 40 (yes forty) GPU cores at 1172MHz apiece for a total of over six teraflops of graphics-crunching …
Well, there's the Hammock Hut, that's on third. There's Hammocks-R-Us, that's on third too. You got Put-Your-Butt-There? That's on third. Swing Low, Sweet Chariot...
Matter of fact, they're all in the same complex; it's the hammock complex on third. [3F23]
The bite comes when you see the rumoured price $700 (which means £700, or more likely in post brexit Britain £800).. according to IDC who regularly get these sort of things right.
"I estimate the basic hardware will cost around $650, so if Microsoft wants any kind of margin at all, Scorpio will have to retail for $700 or more. "
It will sink quicker than boaty mc boatface.
Give a PS4 Pro will do pretty much the same, and by then likely 1/3rd of the price, Microsoft have yet again for it badly wrong...
"Give a PS4 Pro will do pretty much the same, and by then likely 1/3rd of the price"
Well it really won't
For starters this runs a version of Windows and Direct X 12 which as we know from the PC world will outperform the Linux based PS4 software given the same hardware.
Secondly it's got circa 50% more GPU compute power and 50% more memory bandwidth than the PS4 Pro - and a more powerful CPU.
Thirdly it's media player is not Cinavia infected.
And fourthly and maybe most importantly - it supports the latest Blu-ray disk spec - and likely will be the cheapest such player on the market for quite a while...
PS4 runs on a variant of BSD not Linux
Standard PC graphics ;ibraries are also not best for graphics quality.
DX12 best, doubt it.
Getting closer to the "Metal" is always best for performance.
I reckon SCORIO will be about 10$ to 20% more powerful hardware wise, but never bet against Sony ICE team and Guerilla*
* yes they did have a PS3 multiplayer which looked better than the first this generation COD
Sorry for any bad spelling as I can't quite see my monitor clearly due to presbyopia and y moniror glasses are at work
Anything done in Microsoft proprietary DX12 can also be done in (and is done in) OpenGL and OpenCL. PS4 runs BSD such is a more streamlined is than Bloaty Mc Bloatface windows 10 that Xbox uses.
Hardware specs are mostly meaningless when you don't have a game lineup in place (or an established user base). Given the PS4 now has about 3x more users than Xbox One, developers focus on PlayStation, consumers buy what their friends have. You can change this with an over priced, over spec console.
Lastly, most importantly, nobody cares about disc based formats anymore. Microsoft wasting money on this shows they really don't understand the market at all. Digital Delivery is king for music, movies and getting there for games.
Most people understand games sell consoles, not specs, you can you the most powerful console, but if all the great games are on PS4 and all your mates have PS4 and developers focus on PS4,. All you have done is blown a wad of cash that would have bought slot of great PS4 games
If VGA were good enough for me when I were a lass, it's bloody well good enough for t'next generation -erm.. t'next generation's daughters t'work wi'. (Ponders) Bloody 'ell, I bin at this game too long...(pulls on coat, grabs LART, pulls wooly hat down to ears, wanders off in search of a flock of cats requiring a servant...)
We used to look up to you posh "four colour" snobs with envy. Back in my day, we had black and green, and we were happy to have that. We pitied the poor sods who couldn't afford green, and had to make do with orange (which wasn't then and isn't now the new black).
I had the orange... I was told it was called Amber. And it was supposed to be better than green but Eddie Murphy told me that his grandmother suckered him worse with burgers that were better than McDonalds.
What sucks is that simcga almost never worked for me. But to be fair, Sierra was generally good about supporting HGC.
How does that compare to an Nvidia graphics card that has thousands of 'CUDA' cores?
"core" means a very different thing to the AMD and Nvidia crowds. Comparing core counts between radically different architectures is a largerly pointless exercise anyway. It is best to look at how the system performs on real-life applications or, failing that, on not too blatantly biased synthetic benchmarks. Looking at the peak numbers (which the article gives) could also be useful in a pinch ...
"Tractors can be hired out you know"
I am well aware - I used to write software to automate plant hire for a highways contractor...
As long as you can get the job done in less than 14 days I guess you could rend one (Didnt have the exact model I quoted prices for before but this is close : Source
But thats not what the original comment said, it said "I could sell them and buy a tractor.
My point is - no you can't. ;)
Because more CPU cores does not mean more overall system performance.
To game at 60 FPS at 4k you need GPU power and thats something the xbox one lacked and MS are trying to address. Adding more CPU cores does not give them a major performance increase as most xbox games are not utilising even the 8 cores of the XBONE fully.
Sure your cheap china phone may have a whole lot of cores, thats great but if half of those cores are doing nothing because they are waiting on the GPU or the IO then what are they good for?.
The PS3 was a strange beast, using Cell CPUs, which IBM and Toshiba had a view to using for other applications. The Cell cores were designed to scale from the get go, hence the interest in using farms of PS3s for making supercomputers.
Game developers though found it a bit tricky to use it to its full potential.
As a result, the PS4 (and XBOX One) are x86 based, both with AMD graphics.
You can't compare x86 cores with Cell cores or nVidia cores. Nor can you compare to mobile chips with many cores - the idea there is to use a big core for intensive applications and a little core for when the phone is idling... the aim is to save battery power, not to use all cores at once.
One good thing about the PS3 was the fast connection between CPU and GPU, it enabled the fast but low throughput GPU to use a few CPU SPUs to do calculations.
Hard to code for, but when done properly by the likes of Naughty Dog or Guerilla the results were astounding.
The 360 was a lot easier to code for but ultimately a bit less powerful.
"Can I put Linux on the Microsoft hardware?"
On the surface book - yes.
I'd imagine it would be possible on the studio - but dont own one and cant find anyone online that has done it... But I'd imagine that it would be possible as it is on the Book and tablets.
On the console - probably not. But then youve not been able to do that on anyones consoles for quote some time (You could on the original XB if I remember rightly)
Martin is correct - this generation of consoles sees Sony with most of the exclusives. There isn't a great case for owning an XBOX one and a gaming PC, but there's a good case for having a PlayStation and a PC if you're a keen gamer - and enjoy the genres of games each platform excellent at.
Not at all. I'm just going strictly from a technical point of view. Heck, I pose the question myself at times...but in all seriousness because it provides a benchmark for real-world performance. Let's just say I'll be impressed when an ARM-based system can run the original Crysis with at least 30fps performance. For a system like the Scorpio, at least Crysis 3 is the benchmark. If there ever was a Crysis 4, I would certainly be curious as to Scorpio's ability to handle it.
"Custom "Steam Machine" time then (actually, just Linux running Steam, but that's _more_ useful)"
You know you'll be missing more than half the Steam library by using Linux, including most of the new games and headliners like Fallout 4. And outside Steam, games like Overwatch and Mass Effect: Andromeda won't work on Linux.
Linux support for games - mostly ports, admittedly, rather than developed for - is increasing.
Most slightly older games run fine under WINE - a few even run better on certain hardware, not quite sure why.
All in all, my gaming library is mostly playable on Linux.
Overwatch can definitely be played on Linux with WINE
I've got an Raspberry pi 3 that's running a PS1 emulator.
Interesting. Ive got a pi3 running retro pi for SNES and NES games - Dont know if it does PS as well... are you using retro pi or something else?
I also have a stack of old machines just because theres something about having the original hardware... blowing on a catrridge etc that adds to the whole experience. Last week I picked up an original play station for £10 with controls and a few games, got a PS2 (Slim) a few weeks before for £30 but with about 50 games... Just need a 3 and 4 now then I can start buying up all of the old Sega machines!
"A wireless VR headset to go with it would be nice."
I'm sure Microsoft will either produce their own (They have plenty of tech from HoloLens) - and / or allow use of PC compatible hardware.
If Microsoft produced an augmented reality version that could also be blacked out for full VR then that would put them ahead of the competition... Something like a HoloLens Lite - with the graphics computing done in the Xbox, and just the display broadcast to it... As you say - if it was wireless that would also be a big win.
Same ram as PS4 (GDDR5) but more, slightly more compute cores than PS4PRO, running slightly quicker, slightly better CPU than PS4PRO. A number of small improvements which will all add up.
Appears to be similar improvement over PS4PRO as PS4 is over XBONE.
If it is not too much money it would be worth getting if you have a suitable TV, and you like the games.
Now the crunch, where are all the games for it? Is it worth the extra money over a PS4PRO? Will people upgrade from XBONE or S? Will PS4PRO owners double up? Would a TV owner going from HD to UHD get one?
And one more thing, Sony have 2 studios who can wring the last drop put of any console, would a SCORPIO game look better than Horizon : Zero Dawn on PS4PRO.
Now if I was in the market for a new console (my PS4 stays put) I would go S before SCORPIO, due to price as it would be an exclusive only box. If I had a new UHD TV I would go PS4PRO for the games over SCORPIO.
I hope it does well as we need a strong market to keep everyone honest.
Anyway good luck MS with the SCORPIO, it will keep the market active, but you have rather a large lack of Thunderjaws.
"Same ram as PS4 (GDDR5) but more, slightly more compute cores than PS4PRO, running slightly quicker, slightly better CPU than PS4PRO. A number of small improvements which will all add up.
Appears to be similar improvement over PS4PRO as PS4 is over XBONE."
It's not the same RAM - it's got roughly 50% greater bandwidth. Plus about 50% more GPU power.
WIth the Xbox One versus the PS4 the visible differences in games were relatively minor. I think it's going to be a more noticeable gap this time when comparing 4K HDR games....
I'm sure Sony will be working on the PS5, but it takes circa 3 years to get a console and silicon to market - by which time we will probably have a Scorpio VR Pro, etc...
I think Microsoft might have done enough to take the world wide console sales lead this time.
Wow, for a cynical snarky website, I have never seen such a shill article. The whole thing is written like the next xbox is such an amazing hardware and performance marvel.
Wow, an 8 core CPU. Well the same 8 cores as was in the original Xbox, i.e AMD jaguar cores that were designed for the tablet market, sure probably shrunk and upclocked, but still. Oh the power... If you actually read the sourced article, they are so powerful Microsoft have had to do some funnies to take off them lots of DX12 processing so they don't slow things down too much, using the 'command processor' on the GPU.
The GPU will be good as it will be some form of the AMD Vega chipset. So this will no doubt be the most powerful console out there, due to being the most recent with the latest hardware for the price point. But let's put things into perspective more than this article does. This device will be great for chucking around graphics, but if this hardware was meant for the new surface or a cloud server, it would be hideously under powered for what those are used for. Cool your fanboi jets there....
> Wow, for a cynical snarky website, I have never seen such a shill article. The whole thing is written like the next xbox is such an amazing hardware and performance marvel.
The power of the machine isn't up for debate, nor it is subjective - it isn't shilling to state the facts. The article did not offer any opinion on the end user experience, which is more subjective and thus would be more open to accusations of shilling.
Raw power doesn't in itself make for a great gaming experience, and it won't sway the purchasing decisions of gamers that much - they care about what games are available, which of their mates use which system for online play, their subjective preference for either a PS4 or XBOX controller, etc. Whilst they do care too about the pretty graphics - Sony's latest offering is no slouch, either.
Raw power helps.
Better draw distances, better animations, more NPCs, more detailed characters.
It can allow more engrossing stories, more games which provide that wow feeling.
After spending the last month hunting robotic animals, being able to stop and sightsee really adds to the experience.
"Microsoft's new hardware: eight x86 cores, 40 GPU cores
Damn. It's the next XBOX, not a Surface and it's going to 4k things up nicely"
"Sadly this is not a new Surface Studio or cloud server: it's the next XBOX, aka “Project Scorpio”.
I disagree, as above, the piece was definitely pushing the idea that the specs of this console are so good they could be confused for the next Surface or a server. No context was given that this is actually comparing apples with oranges when comparing against other platforms. That is not stating facts but being somewhat misleading. Hence my assertion that this came across as a puff piece that feeds perfectly into Microsoft's marketing push for this new console. And I would expect only from a lesser website concerned with keeping Microsoft on side.
User experience / how games will be on the platform was not mentioned in the article and not mentioned by me, so that part of your response is irrelevant.
So again to summarize as people seem to have difficulty understanding my point, probably assuming I am some sort of PS4 fanboi or something. This is going to be the most powerful console when it launches. I have no idea how this will translate into it being a great gaming platform. But trying to make out the hardware specs puts the device on the same performance level as an up coming surface or server platform is market BS and having an article written in such a way on the elreg is very disappointing.
"Then go look up the price of 4K monitors" - Who is thinking you will buy a monitor for this?, it will be on your 50"+ 4K TV that your parents got last year... which they now discover was an LG and has no HDMI 2.0 ports, or for most first gen 4k TV's, its got one 4k capable port which your using for your Sky/Virgin box.
Some newer gen TV's with multiple HDMI 2.0+ ports and Freesync are gona be awsome. The question I am wondering about is more to do with what are Sony cooking up, as waiting an extra 4-6 months can make a huge difference in performance and you might see the next gen PS5? using 10nm SOC. I believe AMD was quoted some ware that they can customise a chip in around 3-6 months at vastly lower cost vs over a year in older hardware thanks to Zen being fully modular, even modular between there x86 and Risk cpu's and GPU's. (they have nice fabric).
[I also note AMD are already talking 8k for future graphics products... wait up.... please wait, my wallet can't keep up...]
Xbox Ones can do HDMI passthrough. Will the Scorpio be able to do 4K HDMI passthrough, meaning it can go between the Sky box and the TV?
Annoyingly XBONE's HDMI passthrough only works if the console is on. What bright eejit came up with that stupidity?
I certainly hope they fix that annoyance on Scorpio (if it will have HDMI passthrough).
Even if you have just one 4K HDMI port, you can always use a switch. Plus Xbox Ones can do HDMI passthrough. Will the Scorpio be able to do 4K HDMI passthrough, meaning it can go between the Sky box and the TV? Don't know yet.
That passthrough requires the xbox to be on though... which is a massive pain in the arse.
"That passthrough requires the xbox to be on though... which is a massive pain in the arse."
But necessary due to HDCP, meaning any kind of bridge device must be active to work. I believe those Google TV boxes had the same issue. But as for the power use, has anyone actually checked the One's power usage when it's just idling? I know from experience that electrical usage in PCs can vary significantly between humdrum desktop use and full-on gaming, rendering, or encoding jobs.
Some good points on HDMI,
A lot of err cheaper early build 4k tellies only have one if you're lucky and to do 4k HDR, the Scorpio buyers are going to need one. However, most modern 4K tellies have at least a couple of ports. Obviously the better ones have many more. My Sony X93 has erm 4 I think - all 4K HDR compatible.
Even those with 2 may struggle if they already have Sky Q and a PS4 Pro using them up already. Scorpio does have a HDMI in and if it's compliant that could be an option, but it's not exactly green. The Xbox One needs the console switched on for it to be used so up goes the leccy bill.
If you're the sort of person that is going to be purchasing dozens and dozens of $50-$75 games over the next console generational lifecycle, then you can certainly afford to buy one-each of both consoles.
A valid argument against this -^ would be the monthly fees for online gaming.
Well, them's the breaks. If you wanna play WoW, you gotta pay up, and that's just for that one game.
As for Xbox Live, it covers all Microsoft gaming products still in operation. It even provided benefits to Windows Live before the system was deprecated. So it will cover the Scorpio.
But many great games missing.
This week I have played 3 games
Horizon Zero Dawn, console only
Destiny, console only
Uncharted 4. consoel only
Yes I took down a robot dinosaur* with a compound bow and arrows
Yes I ran around slaughtering aliens.
Yes I robbed an auction (hard play through)
And yes I own Borderlands 1, 2, Presequel
* Most are mammal equivalents, only the Thunderjaw is a robot dinosaur.
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