back to article Want to come to the US? Be prepared to hand over your passwords if you're on Trump's hit list

The new boss of the US Department of Homeland Security plans to dig deeper into the lives of some of those wishing to enter the Land of the FreeTM – even going as far as demanding web passwords and banking records. In a Q&A with the House Homeland Security Committee on Tuesday, John Kelly said the previous administration had …

  1. DavCrav Silver badge

    And this is why I cancelled my trip to the United States.

    1. macjules Silver badge

      Funny that. I just cancelled a trip this morning to the USA. I preferred to switch to a rather pleasant visit to our offices in India instead.

      1. Paul 135

        You do realize that India has FAR stricter immigration laws than the USA, right?

        1. DiViDeD Silver badge

          But this is not about immigration. This is about visiting the US, or even changing flights on a long haul at a US airport!

          Doesn't bother me though, never wanted to go there, even as a child, and all my long haul flying involves transferring in the ME or SE Asia.

      2. Paul

        I used to go to the USA two or three times a year to visit relatives and for a holiday, spending thousands each time on a hotel, car hire, subsistence, gifts etc.

        I started to cut down after "9/11" because getting into the country made me feel like a criminal, even though I am middle class white european male to the 4th generaion with a UK passport etc.

        I've not been in three years now, and I estimate it's cost their economy over $15000... and counting.

        I know there are many others like me. I've heard of Chinese companies trying to send people to do trade deals being turned away, and spending millions in Europe instead as they are welcomed with open arms.

        Surely His Highness Donald and all his business owning buddies would want the tourists's money rather than turning them away in droves?

    2. Old Handle
      Flame

      Pretty soon it will be no one but terrorist left who want to visit. I guess that will make them easy to spot though.

      1. gudguy1a

        Sad statement but maybe true...

        @ Old Handle - you got quite a point there, this situation is starting to make ME want to leave the US. That is, while this looney, errr, certain individual put into the presidency by the electoral college is in that office. Or rather, as soon as the next election comes around - we can do better... We definitely want folks to come in, after this social media invasive vetting episode is over.

        Now just imagine how many folks are going to create fake accounts, just seed it with just enough true info - and no, it may not extend very far into the past but it will be there...

    3. Gray
      Trollface

      Our Huddled Masses

      And this is why I cancelled my trip to the United States.

      We'd prefer that all of you stay away. Go elsewhere. We'll be busy building a wall all around our borders, then huddling down in abject terror at the feet of Trump Terrific who has vowed to not only Make America Great Again® but to Keep America Safe®.

      Perhaps when the crisis has passed...

      1. Tom 7 Silver badge

        Re: Our Huddled Masses

        I was looking forward at some time in the not too distant future to follow spring up the Cascades from California to Canada with yomps up Crater Lake and Mount Rainier (which I could view from our garden as a child). I have a feeling there might be a few huddled masses up there if Ms Atwoods now seemingly prophetic book gets any more accurate.

        One hopes the crisis will pass but logic no longer works.

      2. Haku

        Re: Our Huddled Masses

        "We'll be busy building a wall all around our borders

        Reminds me of the dystopian anime film "Vexille" where Japan sealed its borders physically and electronically with a giant EM dome so nobody could enter/leave or communicate with the outside world.

        Spoiler alert:

        Years later the US navy breaks in and discovers everyone had been infected with nanotechnology that replaced all their cells which turned them into synthetic people, but something went wrong with the nanobots because everyone lost their free will and became lifelike machines.

    4. Oh Homer
      Big Brother

      Papiere bitte!

      (To the tune of Horst Wessel Lied)

      SS Commander Kelly: Ay vork für sie vone man, unt hiz nam-e ist Donald Troomp, unt he tolt me ‘Kelly, zecure ze border,’ unt zat ist vot ay am goingt to do!

      Fräulein Rice: You vere only chozen by heem, meine liebchen, aber you vork für us. Ay am shure zat ist vot you meant

      SS Command Kelly: Nope!

      Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Führer.

      1. harmjschoonhoven

        Re: Papiere bitte!

        Troomp Drumpf

      2. Chika
        Coat

        Re: Papiere bitte!

        Hmm...

        Considering Drumpf's views on certain religions and various other political issues, especially his posturing following the temporary injunction on his executive order regarding certain people entering the US, comparing The Donald to The Adolf seems...

        Well, consider how they came to power. These will be trying times for the remaining branches of the US government to make sure that Drumpf stays in his place and does not change things to suit himself and the minority that voted him in.

        Anyway, with Godwin's law well and truly invoked...

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Papiere bitte!

          Godwin's Law is not automatically invoked if the comparison is apt, or at least backed up with some sort of non-spurious reasoning. In fact, Godwin had something to say on this very issue. If we are going to make the comparison, perhaps we should include references to their respective staffs:

          In order to keep America safe, Kelly said he would need between 5,000 and 10,000 new staff. However, he would accept fewer provided they were properly trained and could do their jobs efficiently.

          So up to 10K new staff if they are all a bunch of incompetent nincompoops but a handful if they are capable individuals?! Pardon my sophistry here, but OUCH! How did the Nazi party leadership fare in terms of making ridiculous public announcements and then proceeding to ram their policies down the throats of any and all? Might there be an apt comparison to be made here?

        2. Oh Homer
          Mushroom

          Homer's Law

          The probability that legitimately comparing one far-right nationalist to another will result in an attempt to stifle such criticism by invoking a meaningless aphorism coined by some American lawyer.

    5. Syntax Error

      Its probably one of the reasons they bought out this policy. To put people from everywhere off going there.

    6. malle-herbert Silver badge
      Trollface

      Almost makes you want to create a fake Facebook account with the password set to : "fuckyou"...

      1. skswales

        Or - GoStickYourHeadInAPig... Share and Enjoy!

      2. Jim-234

        The fun that can be had with passwords

        The last time I was doing a bit of international travel, I setup my laptop with a encrypted boot partition that hid a completely plain vanilla install of Linux Mint with no personal data.

        I had fun setting the password to a nice long sentence guaranteed to offend bureaucrats...

        So you need my password... sure... did you want me to write it down or tell it to you?

    7. tr1ck5t3r
      Trollface

      Its only a compliance, kneejerk and gullibility test, the NSA already have access to your systems and everything about you. Just look at FACTA for examples of your bank statements being in US hands.

    8. g e

      Don't forget the financial aspect, also

      Vote with you wallets. Yeah lots of American-owned components are in non-American products and you can't completely anal-yse everything you buy but you can divert your spending away from them along with your tourism for sure.

    9. FuzzyWuzzys Silver badge
      Unhappy

      Yet another reason I will never set foot in the States now. I'd love to go but the fact that the US Gov treats everyone like a criminal now, it's simply of limits. It's sad as I'm sure the people are lovely, unfortunately they just elected a bunch of paranoid freaks to run their country.

    10. Eddy Ito Silver badge
      Devil

      This is why every country should invite Trump for a visit. Just make sure he hands over his Twitter password.

    11. Andrew Moore Silver badge

      I threatened to cancel a training course that would have taken place in the US. It's now been moved to Germany.

    12. Hollerithevo Silver badge

      I'm stuck with going, but...

      I have friends there and also one business meeting I've tacked on. I am taking zero equipment with me. I have the password to my moribund Facebook account and to the one Twitter account in my real name. I hope to take enough cash to avoid having to use any ATMs or record-collecting devices. I do not intend to phone home during my stay.

      I then hope not to have to return. The Person to Contact in my passport is my spouse, who is the same sex as I am, so I am not being totally paranoid. Those who like security services are often little brownshirts who love the fact that they can ruin your day, if not your life. I've dealt with one of these squirts and never want that experience escalated.

  2. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

    "Want to come to the US?"

    Don't think so.

  3. BongoJoe

    It's not so much as wanting to visit the US but wanting to go anywhere where a connecting flight is needed from the US.

    1. Dr Scrum Master

      It's not so much as wanting to visit the US but wanting to go anywhere where a connecting flight is needed from the US.

      There's an opportunity for some airlines and airports here!

      1. Blank Reg

        When Toronto expanded the airport a few years ago one of the reasons was to attract more connecting flights away from US airports. I expect such traffic will be seeing a healthy increase this year.

        1. Ol'Peculier

          I flew from Toronto to Manchester last year. Via Chicago. Which meant I still needed to go through the ESTA shenanigans even though I was only in the airport long enough to have a couple of beers and something to eat.

          Gah.

    2. Hollerithevo Silver badge

      It's getting easy to avoid that

      I fly to South America reasonably often and usually went through the States. A few years ago I had a tiresome run-in with security staff while in transit (hello, Miami) and decided: never again. It turns out that I can fly easily to Mexico or Costa Rica from the UK and then connect south, or fly to Frankfurt or Madrid and then cross directly to, say, Buenos Aires. So now I do.

    3. Tom 7 Silver badge

      Connecting flights

      Flew to Mexico a month or so after 11/9 and landed at some pokey airport in Florida to re-fuel and had to spend 4 hours getting off the plane, collecting baggage and then going back through customs to get back on the plane when as simple re-fueling would have been infinitely safer and less annoying. We knew it was bad when even the normally totally de-humanised US border guards apologised for the stupidity.

    4. dbayly

      That will be a self correcting problem. Expect Canadian and Mexican hubs to become popular.

  4. Len Goddard

    What happens

    ... if you don't have any social media accounts?

    Obviously an anti-social sociopath - send him home.

    1. macjules Silver badge
      Facepalm

      Re: What happens

      Well doh! You mean that you have never once read a Tweet from the Great Leader?

      1. Solmyr ibn Wali Barad

        Re: What happens

        "Well doh! You mean that you have never once read a Tweet from the Great Leader?"

        (sheepishly) No, I really haven't. Is this a mandatory reading? Any repercussions/repressions for missing out?

        1. jake Silver badge

          Re: What happens

          I've never read ANY tweet. I lost interest in short text based communications back in the days of talk.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: What happens

            You realise your reply was 104 characters, right?

            1. Pat Att

              Re: What happens

              Well pwned there.

            2. jake Silver badge

              Re: What happens

              AC, you realize you counted 104 characters? Most of my fanbois just hang my every word, hanging on to every character is just being silly.

              Just to point out the obvious, I don't in general type several dozen words when a couple of handfuls will do. However, here at ElReg I can post several hundred words per post, should I feel the need. No need to break it into 140 characters or less, it seems most commentards here are quite capable of maintaining a coherent thought across multiple paragraphs. Unlike the featherbrained twits, apparently.

        2. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken

          Re: What happens

          "(sheepishly) No, I really haven't. Is this a mandatory reading?"

          My sources tell me that the Tweets from The Great LeaderTM shall soon be compiled and issued to the population as The Little Orange BookTM.

      2. yossarianuk

        Re: What happens

        You can read tweets without an account.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: What happens

      No problem, the TSA/DHS are not very smart, just craft a few dozen fake social accounts and use them. "Oh look, this guy tweeted 'USA number one, joe!' He must me okay! Go right on in there, buddy!"

      You can visit the USA, just keep to New York, Washington state, Oregon, and California. Those will be your best bet for a nice visit and the fewest number of noisy Trump-supporting morons who will cast a dim view on anyone visiting them (and spending money. oops!) from "places that we don't never done heard of. duhhh!"

      The Red States are all filled with angry, whites from immigrant families who are so afraid of their own shadows they cannot function without a gun in hand or at the ready. "Close those borders!" is their cry, and it comes some 240 years too late. These idiots worship three things; guns, tRump, and Putin! And you will very often see them waving a giant American flag and not having a clue what the real America stands for. Hint; we're an immigrant nation with open borders. Having served in the military during the Reagan years I can tell you without a doubt these tRump supporters are all scumbags and as unAmerican as you can get, and every one is a 100% pussy. Not a real man among the lot, hence the guns.

      1. Gray
        Boffin

        Re: What happens

        You can visit the USA, just keep to New York, Washington state, Oregon, and California.

        Sorry, Charlie... that won't work. You'd best stay clear of eastern Washington, eastern Oregon, and northern California. Those are hotbeds of rural discontent seeking The Trump Deliverance®. It's the more populous western portions of WA and OR, and the southern portion of CA that rejected the Joy of Trump.®

        1. jake Silver badge

          Re: What happens

          Uh, just a second Grey. I live in Northern California. I do not know a single person who voted for or approves of the big, fat orange idiot-in-chief, nor what he is attempting to do to OUR, not HIS, country.

          Eastern WA & OR ... well, the closer you get to Western Idaho (by land area), the sorrier I feel for you.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: What happens

            And my wife is from the USA. Still, I dont look forward to giving money to the US. I will travel to the US in july to see friends and family.. but if not for that reason, I would not travel there. And now to pay for STA, etc.. and dont make a mistake etc etc.

            Note: never lie to a federal agent, it is a federal crime.

      2. Andy Tunnah

        Re: What happens

        For a minute there I thought I was reading a sincere post from reddit. That is A+ writing, very nearly got me HL+S'erd

      3. Jamie Jones Silver badge

        Re: What happens

        But Mr/Ms Anon - you can't blame them for being careful. Don't you know there are mussie terrorists hiding under your bed?

      4. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: What happens

        "every one is a 100% pussy"

        So says the anonymous coward. LOL

      5. Oh Homer
        Childcatcher

        Breeding anti-American sentiment

        I'm fairly ranty about America's less attractive qualities (and equally my own country), but I keep reminding myself that there is good and bad everywhere (I've seen more than my fair share outside of America), and ultimately there are a lot of good people in America, even in the dreaded Red States. I've met a few Texans who made my heart swell with their compassion and generosity, and there are aspects to Texan culture that are both homely and romantic, but equally there's a monstrous dark side, mainly borne out of fear of losing those values.

        I'm not American, or Christian (or even theist), and I utterly despise guns, "patriotism" and neoliberal politics, but I refuse to hate good people based on the prevailing culture they were born into, even if they parrot those ideals unconsciously. People are individuals, not political agendas. My own father was one of the kindest men you could have hoped to meet, but he was also swept up by the tide of racism prevalent in the 70s, courtesy of extremists like Enoch Powell. I know first hand what it means when good people are corrupted by extremist propaganda.

        Trump's hysterical polemics do not help the America people. He is not a worthy ambassador to his country, and he is certainly no statesman, much less a gentleman. At a time when America needs to show the world its best qualities, we have another Enoch Powell breeding fear and loathing, and as much as I cannot resist reacting negatively to that malice, I have to remind myself that not every ordinary, decent, hard-working American is the bogeyman.

      6. Eddy Ito Silver badge

        Re: What happens

        You can visit the USA, just keep to New York, Washington state, Oregon, and California.

        Just be certain you join the ranks of the chanting mobs and don't forget to smash some windows and ATM machines so you'll fit in. Don't think for a minute that it's just about Trump, these places are well known for violence. It's not new and like the other nutters they aren't representative of we folk in general regardless of what party one may have voted for.

        I even took the Johnson 2016 sticker off my car because I had nutters blaming me for Hillary's defeat and that's the last thing you want bing in California since anti-Hillary=pro-Trump here. It's almost as if they think my vote counts in California. No doubt some here think I'm a nutter voting for Johnson but I'll take a mellow pot smoker over the two pugnacious imperialists any day.

    3. FlossyThePig
      Facepalm

      Re: What happens

      I don't know if anybody here has used Streetlife but it's been taken over by America's Nextdoor.

      To quote the bbc

      Nextdoor describes itself as a private social network, but one where people give their real names and addresses.

      That's rather different from Streetlife, where people are generally John from Acton, rather than John Smith from 225 Acacia Gardens.

      The key is under the plantpot!

  5. Jim-234

    Such a truly stupid and lazy plan perfectly setup to fail horribly

    This is a truly stupid plan that is bound to fail on so many levels and will do nothing but upset decent people and open them up to hacking & identity theft while doing nothing to actually stop people who want to cause harm. It reeks of lazy ignorant fools who want to be seen to do something rather than actually do something that works.

    So the government can't even keep their whole database of classified personnel files and biometric data on high security clearance individuals safe from hackers, how safe do you think your passwords will be in the hands of stupid government agents? My guess is they will have them all in some nice big database that will be hacked and downloaded over and over.

    This is just going to be security theater and bothering everyone and invading their privacy for no net effect at all. As soon as it goes live, all the bad guys will know they need a clean profile online, there will probably even be special paid services to make your online profile all nice and minty fresh, probably even with posting and messaging "good" stuff to make sure you look nice online.

    What is to stop unaccountable TSA level of intelligence minions with the standard delusions of power from messing around with your accounts just because.... respect my authority.....

    If the government actually has a real concern about somebody, just go ask the NSA which has a copy of pretty much any electronic or signals communication sent anywhere in the world. (that stuff they claim about only "metadata" is just to make you feel good, or as they put it to congress... the least dishonest thing they could say).

    If the government actually bothered to stop playing security theater and actually crack down on terrorists it's easy, they already have all the information needed.... usually after an attack there is this statement in the news...."they were known to the authorities" or "had been already under surveillance" or like the San Bernardino terrorists, busy posting messages hating america online openly... "but oh we couldn't bother checking their public data profiles before letting them in because"..........

    They want to start demanding your passwords for your phones & laptops?

    .. well pretty soon all they will find is factory reset phones, laptops with a never used OS and a new booming business for Chinese, Russian and European data centers of "whole system data backups".

    The only good news is that if this goes live, everyone will probably start scrubbing their Facebook profiles to be about as informative as Zuckerberg's page... so maybe then Facebook will finally go the way of MySpace.

    1. John H Woods

      Re: Such a truly stupid and lazy plan perfectly setup to fail horribly

      "It reeks of lazy ignorant fools who want to be seen to do something rather than actually do something that works." --- Jim234

      The Politician's Syllogism so excellently lampooned in Yes, Prime Minister.

      We must do something

      This is something

      Therefore, we must do this.

      1. Jamie Jones Silver badge

        Re: Such a truly stupid and lazy plan perfectly setup to fail horribly

        Why yes, sir, you may have my facebook password.

        Look! There's me and the lads chanting Death to America..

        Ah yeah, that photo. Haha. that was the first bomb I made, look how amatuerish it is!

        Him? Ah, my best mate. With Allahh and 72 virgins now - he took out a bus load of infidels last week.

    2. FuzzyWuzzys Silver badge
      Happy

      Re: Such a truly stupid and lazy plan perfectly setup to fail horribly

      I think you have a plan there, I reckon Trump being a complete div has shares in the failing Yahoo and Myspace, so he reckons if everyone "cleans" their Facebook pages the site will become a ghosttown and people will head back to sites "Gump" has shares in!

    3. Wensleydale Cheese
      Unhappy

      Re: Such a truly stupid and lazy plan perfectly setup to fail horribly

      "how safe do you think your passwords will be in the hands of stupid government agents?"

      When the Pentagon of all places has badly secured servers, things don't look good.

      Security flaws in Pentagon systems 'easily' exploited by hackers

      Several misconfigured servers run by the US Department of Defense (DOD) could allow hackers easy access to internal government systems, a security researcher has warned.

      ...

      Dan Tentler, founder of cybersecurity firm Phobos Group, who discovered the vulnerable hosts, warned the flaws are so easy to find that he believes he was probably not the first person to find them.

  6. Andrew Jones 2

    So..... if you have a Yubikey (or equivalent 2FA device) - you have to hand it over?

  7. Smody

    It could be worse.

    You could be an American. These vile fascists are now the face of the USA. If I went overseas, I'd try to learn to speak like a Canadian. I certainly wouldn't want to advertise that I'm from THAT place.

    The social media stuff is stupid to the point of being funny: sorry, boss, I don't got no soshul media, what is that, anyway? But passwords to BANK ACCOUNTS!? Oh, HELL no.

    1. Blank Reg

      Re: It could be worse.

      I don't do any online banking so I don't even have passwords to give them. As for facebook, what they would find lately is a long string of posts about trump, and since they are all true they will be deemed anti-trump.

    2. Voland's right hand Silver badge
      Facepalm

      Re: It could be worse.

      I do not have passwords to bank accounts to start off with.

      They are all accessible via one-time tokens - not something you can integrate into a data slurp system.

    3. Rich 11 Silver badge

      Re: It could be worse.

      If I went overseas, I'd try to learn to speak like a Canadian. I certainly wouldn't want to advertise that I'm from THAT place.

      You'd be following in the footsteps of many Americans who did this in the 80s and again after the invasion of Iraq.

      The rest of us would certainly appreciate Yanks saying 'sorry' more often, in a Canadian accent or not.

    4. Velv Silver badge
      Coat

      Re: It could be worse.

      Bonjour, mon nom est Donald, je suis un Canadien, pas des États-Unis d'Amérique et je suis une personne agréable, honnête

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Presumably

    ... when you provide these, the entity and individuals to which you give them are also getting full and unlimited several liability for anything whatsoever done using those accounts from that moment on? So if bored Immigration guy realises he has enough details to change passwords and go shopping, the government entity in question is also liable?

    Different passwords for different services, 2FA etc? Mr Average Joe Public doesn't do that.

    1. Smooth Newt
      Meh

      Re: Presumably

      So if bored Immigration guy realises he has enough details to change passwords and go shopping, the government entity in question is also liable?

      If you can prove it was him, but how are you going to do that? Especially if he has instead sold your details, via a cut-out, to someone else on the other side of the World.

    2. Martin Gregorie Silver badge

      Re: Presumably

      Different passwords for different services, 2FA etc? Mr Average Joe Public doesn't do that.

      Yes, Mr Average Joe Public does, because there's at least one UK bank that doesn't use passwords for their online accounts: they use a 2FA device for all web-based access.

    3. Tessier-Ashpool

      Re: Presumably

      I imagine the liability will lie with Joe Public. Banks won't reimburse you for fraudulent losses if you hand over your password/PIN to a third party.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Presumably

      It's worse, because as soon as they have your password they can fabricate any "evidence" against you - and then refuse you the visa, or even blackmail you. I had enough experience with embassies and consulates workers to understand how soon some of them learn to exploit their position for personal advantages.

      1. DropBear Silver badge
        Trollface

        Re: Presumably

        " I had enough experience with embassies and consulates workers..."

        Hold on - have you been playing "Papers, please" again?!?

    5. phuzz Silver badge

      Re: Presumably

      A lot of banks in the UK force 2FA, whether that's via sending a confirmation code via text, or a little thingy that you slot your card into.

    6. Christoph Silver badge

      Re: Presumably

      They also get full access to private messages from, and locked postings by, all your friends. So if you hand over your password you are betraying the trust those friends placed in you.

  9. Bloodbeastterror

    I went to America once. They were (are?) lovely people. But I don't want to go there any more. And the posts of the majority of people above will ensure that they too are banned, though I gather that they won't be too bothered either. What a terrible shame.

    1. Paul Crawford Silver badge

      Same here, have visited the USA a few times and almost without exception the people I met and dealt with were nice and civilised.

      However, that was some years ago and the public image and view being projected by the nation of America is such that I would not choose to go there. Of course, not everyone has a choice as business might take you there, but if you want an English-speaking holiday then you can got to Canada (or UK or event Holland!) and be free of Trumph and the gun-totting idiots that tend to support him.

      OK, the UK also has right-wing xenophobic idiots as well, but at least they are not able to get the guns so easily...

  10. cantankerous swineherd

    dear USA, please ban me from your country. tia.

    1. MrDamage

      Me Too please

      I keep refusing to accompany Mrs Damage on her trips to the psychobilly festivals in Vegas, as I refuse to visit a country that treats you like a criminal (taking fingerprints) for wanting to spend my hard-earned money there.

      Despite my explanations on how big data works, she's still a "got nothing to hide/I want convenience" apologist.

      So if I can be proactively banned, will save me from going through the explanations time and again.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Me Too please

        The very existence of Las Vegas is another reason to stay away from US... the very essence of exploiting idiots to separate them from their money.

        1. Jamie Jones Silver badge

          Re: Me Too please

          Like the UK National lottery, and other lotteries and casinos on-line and all over the world?

          You can hardly pin that one on America!

          1. Palpy

            Re: Las Vegas... it's special.

            Monte Carlo's looking great,

            And Macao's a nice bit,

            But for a tawdry town to hate

            Las Vegas gots da sh*t.

      2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: Me Too please

        "So if I can be proactively banned, will save me from going through the explanations time and again."

        It sounds as if getting her proactively banned will be more effective.

    2. Aladdin Sane Silver badge

      dear USA, please ban me from your country. tia TSA.

      FTFY

  11. DesktopGuy

    no more trips to the US then - settled

    I really enjoyed my last trip to the US, but if these new regulations are approved there is no chance in Hell I will ever set foot on US soil again.

    Firstly, handing over passwords for social media and possibly banking to a third party!

    They US government and private corporations have such a good record of keeping that information safe…

    Think about the Ashley Madison breach and the suicides and blackmailing that happened after that.

    Having that information in the hands of a foreign government who has already said if your not a US citizen then no rules apply.

    Secondly, upwards of 6 months vetting for a 1 or 2 week trip.

    This will totally gut the US tourism industry. An industry that was worth 1.47 trillion U.S. dollars to GDP in 2014 and was forecasted to contribute more than 2.5 trillion U.S. dollars by 2025.

    How is this different from what the Germany and Russia did back in the day and what North Korea does now??

    1. veti Silver badge

      Re: no more trips to the US then - settled

      If you've set foot in the US since 2002, then you've already given your fingerprints to those same people.

      Me, I've been avoiding the place ever since then.

      This measure? Well, you could have a talking point in that it's a violation of the Terms of Service to disclose your password to anyone - therefore they are asking you to commit a felony ("trafficking in access-control devices (namely, passwords)" under 18 USC 1029).

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: no more trips to the US then - settled

        "Me, I've been avoiding the place ever since then."

        Snap, and it looks like it'll be a chilly day in hell before I consider going again. Ironically, my girlfriend usually tells me my attitude is 'extremist'.

      2. Truckle The Uncivil

        Re: no more trips to the US then - settled

        Kent State was enough for me to decide 'no'.

  12. Andy Tunnah

    So will I be barred ?

    I don't use social media - no twitter, snapchat, instagram etc.

    I *do* have a facebook, but it's under a fake name (if I wanted to keep in touch with you after school I would do so), and I only add very close friends, people I'm in regular contact with, and it it is so I can speak exactly like I would face to face, so as you can guess, my posts are all the sort of things mates say only to other mates.

    If I went to the states would I get into trouble for not having anything ? My facebook is absolutely non-identifiable (I don't have any family members on it - I don't know about you lads but it doesn't matter how old you are, you don't swear in front of your mam, it applies to 32 year old me, it'll apply to 62 year old me god willing, and my lexicon is...quite scottish, so I have no family on there at all)

    I'm planning on doing a US trip in 2018, purely as a tourist, but I'll be buggered if you're gonna get a chance to see what I think about my mate ben's latest bird.

    1. Lars Silver badge
      Coat

      Re: So will I be barred ?

      "all the sort of things mates say only to other mates".

      In these trump days it's called "locker room banter".

    2. Jonathan Richards 1

      Re: So will I be barred ?

      Someone possibly masquerading as an Andy Tunnah wrote:

      > I *do* have a facebook ...

      This use case for Facebook (TM) seems a bit eccentric, akin to using a hammer to drive a screw. If one wanted a method for closed-group communications between friends, e-mail would seem to answer better than putting one's more-or-less sweary opinions on Mr Zuckerberg's servers. It may be that the posts are non-public, but if they were of apparent interest to The Security Services, they'd be able to de-anonymize you in a heartbeat.

  13. Winkypop Silver badge
    Thumb Down

    Banking passwords!

    Yeah, I'm sure your Bank would be OK with that, not.

    Breach of T&Cs, loss of plausible deniability?

    Idiots.

    1. Magani
      FAIL

      Re: Banking passwords!

      According to my bank's T&Cs:-

      Password, PIN, Telecode and Security Device Code security

      To help protect your password, PIN, Telecode and Security Device Code (“security passwords”), you must

      * Not disclose your security passwords to anyone including a family member or friend ...

      However, about 4 bullet points later, we get to:-

      * Notify <$bank> immediately if you become aware that your security passwords records have been lost or stolen, or known or used by someone else;

      Does this mean that I can cheerfully give The Man my banking PINs Customer Reference Number, password/s etc, etc with a clear conscious, get my bags, walk out into The Land of the Free / Home of The Brave, then promptly ring <$bank> to tell them what's just happened, hoping that they'll immediately change the logon details?

      I think not. How's Guantanamo at this time of year? Isn't waterboarding something fun you do in the surf?

      I have visited across the Pacific on a number of occasions - the natural beauty of the USA is just remarkable, but I suspect I've had my last visit to Yosemite, Yellowstone, Grand Canyon, The Big Island, etc until the management changes.

      1. veti Silver badge

        Re: Banking passwords!

        When Obama came in, I waited hopefully, although to be honest not that hopefully, for him to repeal the rule (introduced by Bush) about fingerprinting all visitors on arrival.

        Still waiting.

        It's going to take more than a change of management.

  14. 2+2=5 Silver badge
    WTF?

    Language?

    > "...so we can see what they do,” Kelly explained

    So the DHS, at every border crossing and airport, is going to deploy staff fluent in all the languages of the world?

    1. DiViDeD Silver badge

      Re: Language?

      Oh come on! I've seen the movies. Everyone in the world speaks English, but in some countries they do so in a heavy accent, probably because they like people to know what country they come from.

      'Foreign' languages? Seriously, no such thing.

    2. LaeMing Silver badge

      Re: Language?

      All the languages of the worlds (plural intentional), since I am sure there are some people out there posting in Klingon and Elfin!

      1. Rich 11 Silver badge

        Re: Language?

        HIja’!

      2. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge
        Stop

        Re: Language?

        Elfin

        ObPedant: Elvish. Or, preferrably, Qenya and Sindarin[1]

        [1] For Tolkien vales of mythology anyway.

        1. LaeMing Silver badge
          Go

          Re: Language?

          @CrazyOldCatMan

          Thanks. I also forgot Na'vi as another conlang with enough popular traction to be worth mentioning!

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Language?

      As long as the staff speak Voice of America's 'Special English' it'll all be tickety-boo.

    4. LDS Silver badge

      Re: Language?

      No, but there will be soon a new EO to force the bad guys to use English exclusively when menacing Amerika.

      1. This post has been deleted by its author

        1. jake Silver badge

          Re: Language?

          Bog off, Truckle.

          Signed: A Yank from the out of control State of California.

    5. Jonathan Richards 1

      Re: Language?

      > ... DHS, at every border crossing and airport ...

      I think you misunderstand - certain travellers to The Land of the Free will, under Gen. Kelly's plans, have to cough up their passwords before travelling, e.g. when applying for a visa, or an ESTA.

      Others have pointed out that disclosing passwords is uniformly a breach of Terms and Conditions, and presumably it will harm your application for the visa if you change the password during the period when DHS is getting around to logging in with the extorted credentials and having a rummage. At a stroke, Gen. Kelly sacrifices the security of *all* his target travellers, for the sake of an outside chance of identifying the tiny fraction of them that might be undesirable.

      However, it is clear how the current administration views travellers from certain (coincidentally Muslim) countries. They're all undesirable. If the criteria really did have to do with countries with a history of terrorism, then the Irish nations would be on the list too, wouldn't they?

      1. Magani
        Unhappy

        Re: Language?

        @Jonathan Richards 1

        If the criteria really did have to do with countries with a history of terrorism, then the Irish nations would be on the list too, wouldn't they?

        If we're looking at countries with a history of terrorism, then in recent years it's not only the Irish, but a large (predominantly Muslim) country in Arabia whose name escapes me but is believed to have business links with a certain Mr P. OTUS as well as being the origin of a high percentage of very bad airline pilots in 2001.

      2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: Language?

        " If the criteria really did have to do with countries with a history of terrorism, then the Irish nations would be on the list too, wouldn't they?"

        Nations plural? Maybe you're including the US.

        1. Jonathan Richards 1

          Re: Language?

          Nations plural. Northern Ireland is one of the nations making up the United Kingdom; the Republic of Ireland is a different nation. This is at the very nub of much bloody and explosive conflict!

          > Maybe you're including the US.

          Boston, MA, may or may not qualify as a third Irish quasi-nation. Many of its inhabitants were enthusiastic supporters of terrorism a few decades ago.

          1. jake Silver badge

            Re: Language?

            I'm fairly sure there are more folks from the Azores than Ireland in Boston ... But the largest ethnic population in Boston is transplanted New York yuppies.

  15. jason 7

    We stopped going several years ago.

    We go to Canada instead. Far more civilised and the beer is better. Several others I know just wont go to the USA anymore.

    The more I see the more depressing and disgusting a country it appears.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: We stopped going several years ago.

      Agreed about Canada.

      I'm planing on driving north from Vancouver in the summer. We were going on into Alaska but no longer. We'll stop at the border and return south.

      Mrs AC wanted to go on a cruise as well but all seem to want to land in Alaska. She's from Iran. Her family left at the start of the revolution but the ban would probably stop [1] her because she was born in Tehran. She was 5 years old. She speaks with a broad Glaswegian accent btw.

      [1] OR at least have her subject to some intense questioning. When angry she reverts to Glasgow slang interspoded with very rude Farsi words which would not go down well with the DHS.

      1. Triggerfish

        Re: We stopped going several years ago.

        Glasgow slang interspoded with very rude Farsi words

        Thats got to be some next level swearing. :)

      2. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

        Re: We stopped going several years ago.

        I'm planing on driving north from Vancouver in the summer

        At some point before the heat death[1] of the universe[2], I'm hoping to convince Mrs CCM to do the coast-to-coast railway thing in Canada (we both have relatives there - hers dating from the 1930s, mine a tad more recent). Given that Mrs CCM has a great dislike of travel[3] I'm not not holding my breath..

        [1] If not an expanding/contracting universe anyway. Otherwise it would be 'before the next big bang cycle'

        [2] Or mine. Whichever comes first.

        [3] She used to enjoy it. But even going on holiday in Wales[4] or Cornwall[5] stresses her out.

        [4] "I know where Wales is! I've been abroad". Ah, Flanders and Swann, where are you now?[6]

        [5] The land of her ancestors and a number of relatives. One of whom owns holiday cottages.

        [6] Dead[7].

        [7] Can I make the footnotes longer than the non-footnoted text?[8}

        [8] Yes.

      3. Hollerithevo Silver badge

        Re: We stopped going several years ago.

        You can do a really lovely loop trip up the eastern coast of Vancouver island and crossing by ferries to drive down (with ferry hops) back to Vancouver. We did it and it was a truly beautiful trip, with fantastic scenery. Campbell River: sat on our balcony over the sea watching a guy in a kayak fishing below us in crystal-clear waters. Went in a little boat when the Skookumchuk Narrows started to pour back to the sea. Watched through rain forests. Had eagles sail overhead as we watched seals popping mere meters away from us. Friendly people. Everything was clean, everything worked.

        1. jason 7

          Re: We stopped going several years ago.

          Yeah we do Vancouver Island every time we go. We do the west coast from Uclulet and Tofino onwards (even up to the notorious suddenly Nootka Sound).

          Sooo beautiful! And also when you speak to the folks there they never put on a smug smile and say "Hey didn't we save your ass back in WW2?"

          I swear the next American that says that to me will get a swift kick to the bollocks and the return phrase of -

          "Yes thank you very much, we appreciate your sacrifice but we did pay you back and if you had joined when we asked you to, it would have all been over much sooner!"

  16. d3vy

    Surely anyone with any Ill intent would plan ahead and have a clean account ready to be provided..

    All they will capture here will be alias of innocent people's details, anyone doing anything even remotely dogdy will have seperatly accounts or get in via other methods.

    1. DropBear Silver badge
      Facepalm

      Yes well they intend to be onto you before you even have any ill intent. I wish that was a joke....

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      All they will capture here will be alias of innocent people's details

      Well yes, but that's the myth of big data - the illusion that mass collection of so-called "atmospherics" will show what I refer to as "disturbances in the force", patterns of anomaly. There's this deluded train of thoughts that, given enough data, you can detect things as if they were a sort of Twitter trend, even without having feeds that bear at least some relation to the information sought.

      They can have the data on my devices - what I leave there has been culled from public sources so it's no news, and it doesn't offer new meta data. I deal with sensitive enough issues that I know how to create plausible deniability.

      I am hoping that soon, every airport outside the US will start interviewing US officials. After all, it would only be fair reciprocity and we now know none of them can be trusted..

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        "They can have the data on my devices - what I leave there has been culled from public sources so it's no news, and it doesn't offer new meta data."

        You've missed an important point; while the data itself is already known- or at least available- to them, the sources that *you* choose to take an interest in say something about *you*.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          You've missed an important point; while the data itself is already known- or at least available- to them, the sources that *you* choose to take an interest in say something about *you*.

          No, I didn't miss that. I read Hut Six by Gordon Welchman well before the BBC made a documentary about him. I know how dangerous meta data is, so I always make sure I seed data that bears no relevance to my work. We pretty much pioneered the "poisoning the well" approach :).

          This, by the way, points out something very important: I don't consider myself especially talented or clever. If I can work this out, there is no valid reason to assume evil terrorists are any less clever, ergo these measures are utterly pointless - at least if we believe they are there to catch terrorists.

          Either the intention is to only catch dumb terrorists, or it's simply an excuse for legalised industrial and economic espionage on an unprecedented scale.

          It's probably both..

      2. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

        They can have the data on my devices

        Likewise. It's a lot of cat pictures and a good deal of Prog music. Although, the latter would probably get me locked up as a subversive intellectual - especially as very little of it is American.

  17. d3vy

    Also I'm going to have to lie to Facebook & Google when I get the " your account was just logged into from a new device, was it you?"

    Why, no it wasn't. Locked.

    Same with internet banking and email all use 2fa and dedicated device or my phone now... How do they propose this works?!?

    1. Lars Silver badge

      "How do they propose this works?!?". It won't and so far it's only that one idiot speaking about it, let's hope it stays that way. Oh dear, have I become an optimist suddenly.

      I will give them "Lars" on ElReg and I will be welcomed with a smile.

    2. Barrie Shepherd

      "Same with internet banking and email all use 2fa"

      They probably don't know what 2FA is - they still sign cheques and credit card slips.

  18. DownUndaRob

    T&C Breach

    Sorry the T&C of my service provider tells me not to provide *my* password to *anyone*.

    Im not about to breach them just for you, so I guess I will continue to NOT VISIT the USA...

    PS: My country is better than yours, nah nah nah nah nah...

    Now where is my coat?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: T&C Breach

      And since some states interpret breach of T&Cs as violation of the CFAA they can arrest and charge you.

  19. JLV Silver badge
    Paris Hilton

    Do all those border officials speak and read Arabic?

    Are the border officials expecting to see those FB accounts all written up in USA English???

    Or... are US security professionals who happen to be able to read Arabic going to be diverted to this oh so useful dog-chasing-tail exercise?

    This isn't just speculation. I don't know if it's been fixed, but historically French security services have struggled with keeping up phone intercepts, due to the lack of people speaking Arabic.

    I also wonder how US citizens who approve of this type of intrusion would appreciate if they were subjected to it on their trips abroad?

    Also, what were the travel and vetting arrangements like, and how were the legalities addressed, for Soviet visitors during the Cold War? If the US insists on treating visitors from certain Arab countries as potential enemies, that would have been a historical precedent, no? Not that Cold War behavior was always very clever either - like w McCarthy. The numbers would have been much lower however.

    p.s. we definitely need a Trump icon. I am starting to feel really bad about insulting Paris' intelligence by using hers.

    1. Mephistro Silver badge
      Devil

      Re: Do all those border officials speak and read Arabic?

      "I am starting to feel really bad about insulting Paris' intelligence by using hers."

      And so your solution is to insult our eyes with Trump's picture???

      "Some people just want to see the world burn!"

      1. JLV Silver badge

        Re: Do all those border officials speak and read Arabic?

        It wouldn't have to be Trump's picture per se. Just something recognizably his...

        - an orange toupe

        - a groper icon

        - something from https://thenounproject.com/term/donald-trump/651997/ ? I rather like the elephant...

        Seriously, El Reg, we haven't seen a new icon in ages. Pretty please.

    2. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken

      Re: Do all those border officials speak and read Arabic?

      Google translate?

  20. moiety

    Who do these cheeky cunts think they are? I mean, the idea of handing over banking passwords to a country that has already been hacked for the details of everyone with a security clearance -OPM- is laughable.

    It won't work, is impractical; and won't keep actual terrorists out so -apart from jobs for the boys- why are they even bothering to propose something as obscenely stupid as this?

    Possibly the idea is to keep everybody distracted with 'what the fuck?' headlines while they embezzle as much as they can before they're impeached.

  21. Flocke Kroes Silver badge

    Time to change my password

    How about "トランプぢゃんは馬鹿ですね". I could cut an paste it, but without the input system set up properly I couldn't type it.

    1. Baldy50

      Re: Time to change my password

      Mine is a laugh cos on boot up it's a Qwerty keyboard and once the OS is loaded it's Dvorak, so my PW on boot up is using keys you'd not normally use and never guess in million years.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Time to change my password

        Reminds me of the time I was setting up an NT 4 system and found I couldn't log in, whereas my colleague could (using domain authentication). Had inadvertently selected Belgian not British keyboard.

  22. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Go commando

    If just holidaying in the US, don't take any portable tech.

    Imagine what kind of enhancements they might add to your device while you are being 'held'.

    PS: Can the real nazis sue for copyright?

    PPS: Asking for a friend in Argentina.

  23. bombastic bob Silver badge
    Big Brother

    just don't use social media

    just don't use social media. it's highly overrated anyway.

    then again there are old school things like USENET and IRC, for which no passwords are needed.

  24. John F***ing Stepp

    A natural progression

    Extream 'bed' vetting.

    Enhanced 'bed' vetting.

    Digital 'bed' vetting.

    Someone must have been 'abused' as a child.

    1. Mephistro Silver badge
      Devil

      Re: A natural progression

      "Someone must have been 'abused' as a child."

      I reckon the issue here is not that the guys that created these categories and catchy names were abused, but that said guys abused themselves too much, became addicted and kept doing it well into their middle age and senescence, in an industrial scale.

      In other words: They're a bunch of wankers.

  25. Ken Moorhouse Silver badge

    All my social media logins...

    ...are held on this Samsung device.

    Mind if I use your washroom while you switch it on?

    1. Peter Gathercole Silver badge

      Re: All my social media logins...

      Careful. You may be arrested for wielding an offensive weapon!

      1. David Robinson 1

        Re: All my social media logins...

        Careful. You may be arrested for wielding an offensive weapon!

        Would that be the phone or when he's in the washroom?

  26. Slx

    Well, as I'm not a criminal and don't really feel like being treated like one just because I'm from a country other than the USA, I'll be giving the country a skip until it stops with this paranoia.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      I'll be giving the country a skip until it stops with this paranoia.

      I'm puzzled - why would giving them a skip change anything?

      :)

      1. Ben Tasker Silver badge

        Wrong type of skip, he obviously wants them to fizzily melt away.

      2. Pedigree-Pete
        Joke

        Skip (UK English)...

        might be useful if you drop it from the right height. PP

  27. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Simple fix - don't visit the US

    It's a backward nation, with delusions of competance, a militarised police force locking up people for profit, occupied by gun-toting lunatics run by a billionaire cabal.

    Fuck the lot of 'em and stay the hell away.

    1. jake Silver badge

      Re: Simple fix - don't visit the US

      There IS an echo in here!

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Simple fix - don't visit the US

        I'd imagine there's going to be a lot more echoes by the end of the week.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Simple fix - don't visit the US

        There IS an echo in here!

        Has Amazon dropped a delivery then?

  28. BigLJ

    Tech not politics!

    Disappointing article - this is meant to be a tech magazine, not a student rag. Obviously anyone who has ever been inside an airport will realise that not everybody will have to share their Twitter password. This is clearly a measure meant for people who already arouse suspicion. Equally obviously, the same people will already be working on creating fake social media accounts that they can share without fear of exposing their secrets, so the whole exercise is pointless.

    1. nematoad Silver badge

      Re: Tech not politics!

      "This is clearly a measure meant for people who already arouse suspicion. "

      Oh, you mean like Constable Savage See here when he arrested someone for being in possession of curly black hair and thick lips?

      Sod transferring Savage to the SPG he's a natural for the TSA

    2. Mephistro Silver badge
      Facepalm

      Re: Tech not politics!

      "...will realise that not everybody will have to share their Twitter password..."

      Please replace "share their Twitter password" with "be shot in the head" and tell us if you notice any issue with your logic. TY

      Oh, sorry, you're totally right, of course!. I'm comparing "giving away your passwords" to "being shot in the head". It's too big an hyperbole and people who have been shot in the head could be offended by it.

      So I'll give you several more politically correct examples:

      Try with "have all their bank accounts emptied", "suffer identity theft", "be blackmailed", "be hacked"...

      Still don't see it?

    3. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: Tech not politics!

      "Disappointing article - this is meant to be a tech magazine"

      So you don't think password security is a tech issue? Let me guess, you work in IT security in FileSilo?

    4. Hollerithevo Silver badge

      Re: Tech not politics!

      BigLJ (love the clever disguise), we can say what we want here (although the moderator exercises a light hand) and if we techs want to talk politics, we will.

      1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: Tech not politics!

        "if we techs want to talk politics, we will."

        And make a better job of it than politicians talking tech.

  29. easytoby

    Encouraging efforts

    I am encouraged that USA is not lost. Liking the sound of Representative Kathleen Rice (D-NY). “You were chosen by him, you work for us. I’m sure that’s what you meant,”

  30. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Already sorted..

    I've been through all that when they started the whole TSA nonsense, so not worried, we developed a defensive model for us and our customers, and there's no need to change it.

    I never bring along a laptop (to much data to risk), and I have already configured both iPhone and iPad for single action delete (iOS has some neat tricks in that respect), leaving only the debris that I deliberately introduced and which will make it appear that's all I have on it. If the devices leave my sight, the first stop would be an Apple shop to restore the base OS from the ground up or treat the device as untrusted until I have the time to reflash it (or buy a new one - we have quite a few in circulation for customer demo anyway).

    As for Twitter and Facebook, I don't use it, and all my banking has 2FA so they're welcome to the password (which I change after every US visit anyway) - I never take the 2FA devices with me.

    It's tragic that you have to do more planning for a visit to the US than you have when you go to Russia or China, though. Appalling.

  31. Richard Rae
    Joke

    Isn't this a bit of an extreme way

    to get people's porn collections?

  32. jason 7

    You'd think the 1% just...

    ...want to get rid of the other 99% somehow so they could keep it as a holiday resort or gated walled community for themselves.

    Oh hang on...

  33. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    How long before the UK follows suit \/

    in 5 ... 4... 3 ... 2 ... 1 ...

    1. EnviableOne Bronze badge

      Re: How long before the UK follows suit \/

      DRIPA followed by RIPA and DEA and when they get shot down, we will be brexited and Commandant May can make whatever laws she likes.

  34. Bah Humbug

    Sure you can have my password, but my phone's at home

    What's to stop someone enabling 2FA on their accounts (well, those that support it anyway!), and just 'forgetting' to bring their phone with them, or leaving it at home to avoid extortionate roaming fees? So give them your password, knowing(*) that they're not going to be able to get into your account anyway without that SMS code.

    * (also knowing that if you're someone of interest, they're probably in your account already anyway!)

    1. gnasher729 Silver badge

      Re: Sure you can have my password, but my phone's at home

      Excellent plan. It's very easy to keep them out of your banking account or your Facebook account. The hard thing is to keep them out while being allowed to enter the USA. A lot cheaper just to stay at home in the first place.

      My personal impression is that lots of Americans are really nice people when you meet them, although they _might_ consider to talk, not shout, when they are abroad in a public place, but the TSA is the biggest bunch of arsehole loser thugs that I have ever encountered.

  35. CPU

    Already USA knows more personal stuff about me than my home country i.e. UK doesn’t have my finger prints, but USA does. This is getting ridiculous.

    The can put this on the holiday brochure- "Come to USA, where you'll be made to feel about as welcome as fart in space suit".

    1. Barrie Shepherd

      "Already USA knows more personal stuff about me than my home country i.e. UK doesn’t have my finger prints, but USA does"

      Are you sure? If the US has data on you it a good bet its being shared with UK.

    2. Hollerithevo Silver badge

      USA advertises for tourists

      I noticed, a few years after 9/11, when security theatre was ramped up, that the tube in London started to sprout advertisements from individual states: visit Texas, come to Florida, yay Las Vegas, etc. California even had a TV ad. Clearly the USA had stopped being an easy country to visit tourist numbers were dropping, and state economies were hurting. Well, Las Vegas is still advertising and I've just seen a big campaign pushing San Diego. Can't help but feel that these states had better spend more on 'see America first', because Americans will be the only ones willing to travel therein.

  36. Pascal Monett Silver badge

    "g-men can log into Twitter, Facebook, online banking accounts, and so on, and rummage around"

    With that kind of criteria, my guess is that around 75% of US citizens under the age of 30 would likely not be able to fly either if this search was applied to them.

    In any case, if I had any inclination of wanting to spend money in the US (which I don't under the current Administration), given that I have no social media accounts and my webbanking account needs an OTP key which I will certainly leave at home, I guess those eagle-eyed intellectual wizards at the border control desks will just have to repeal me if I tried.

    Somehow, I am almost wishing to see this go through just for the fun of watching (from afar) the meltdown that will undoubtedly ensure. Looks like The Donald is going to wreak more havoc on the US itself than anywhere else.

    Can we have a popcorn icon ?

  37. nijam

    > “You were chosen by him, you work for us...."

    "You work for us, but you foisted on us by him" surely?

  38. FuzzyTheBear
    Unhappy

    The USA

    has become the arch enemy of freedom and liberty ... in a way , they make Russia look good

    1. FuzzyWuzzys Silver badge

      Re: The USA

      I'm certainly considering Vladivostok for my next Summer holiday! It'll be more pleasant going to Russia than putting up with the US Gov TSA treating me like a piece of shit they just scraped off their shoes!

    2. Hollerithevo Silver badge

      Re: The USA

      I've been to Russia twice. I needed a visa -- a hassle, but so is ESTA. I had zero issues coming in, although I had no doubt that the security services had done their jobs. You are watched more, but insulted less. In my experience.

  39. Doogie Howser MD
    Thumb Down

    General Kelly

    Does the "Ret." stand for Retard?

    1. Mephistro Silver badge
      Coffee/keyboard

      Re: General Kelly

      See icon------------------>

  40. Chris Hills

    Easy

    Make sure your online accounts use 2 factor authentication using a hard token, and leave it at home when travelling. Check if your provide supports it at http://www.dongleauth.info/

  41. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    OK

    I have 3 Facebook accounts all with the same name and all linked to different email addresses. No more than 10 mates on each and one only has one mate linked from one of the others used for testing some software I wrote around 2 years ago!

    - I have an Instagram with a single picture of my dog.

    - I have Twitter with one tweet that says, "My first tweet!" sent in 2012

    - I have Myspace which I never logged into after I created it

    - Flickr with 2 pics of my garden ( one with aforementioned dog in it! )

    If I can remember the passwords, you have at them DHS!

  42. This post has been deleted by its author

  43. goodjudge

    "It's worse, because as soon as they have your password they can fabricate any "evidence" against you - and then refuse you the visa"

    I cannot upvote this enough. And of course if they refuse you the visa and you've applied as a refugee due to being not-entirely-praising of your *current* leader, what's to stop them passing the info back to your former countrymen's border security, who'll be waiting to give you a warm welcome from the return flight.

  44. jason 7

    I can just imagine...

    ...all those logins and password to banks etc. written on Post-It notes tucked in piles of paper files on low paid admin folks desks.

    Maybe they will outsource the work to India or similar?

  45. Aodhhan Bronze badge

    More ignorance

    The USA is filled with people who emigrated from European countries because they were tired of putting up with your s**t. [insert ushered applause]. So stay away from the USA, they'll somehow manage to get by.

    Objecting to researching immigrants from 7 countries in this way is entirely logical since there isn't any government which keeps records, or have the infrastructure to support normal investigation operations. You object to investigating social media accounts, but do you have any idea what most countries investigate before someone immigrates into the country YOU live in? Giving up social media information is nothing compared to typical items which are investigated.

    Stop shouting out racist left wing talking points. Stop being an ignorant parrot who just repeats what they hear. Take 10 minutes and research and ask WHY something is being done. Be a bit more critical when it comes to left wing crying points.

    1. Custard Fridge

      Re: More ignorance

      What these comments have shown is -

      How easy it is for someone to get around this by setting up fake accounts (takes a little time but if you are a terrorist planning is everything I suppose)

      How banks could not get away with allowing this huge and gaping a hole in their systems

      How decent two-part security will not let third parties look at this anyway

      Zooming out for a minute -

      This policy is simply to make a good impression with Trump's core vote - nothing more.

      Trump needs millions more to march for him in order to stay in power and bully the other marchers into submission.

      The more his core vote see he is 'delivering' (however false the reality of that is) the more likely they are to actually march.

      If they do then the US is doomed to become inward looking, protectionist and shortly thereafter fascist.

      ‘So-called judge’ – perhaps the start of the fight against the rule of law as per Weimar Germany.

      Temporary ban on 15% of Muslims – perhaps the start of the fight to stoke up real hatred of a minority (any minority will do) as per Nazi Germany.

      All your passwords are belonging to us – perhaps the start of how to ‘protect’ everyone as per issuing ID cards in occupied Europe / 1984.

      I realise Aodhhan will not see any of this as being linked or realistic or sensible, but battle lines are being drawn around the world – and you and I are unfortunately on different sides.

      And no, I have never been a member of the Labour or indeed Communist party, but I am a history graduate who has read about all this before, but had always thought he wouldn’t be living through an attempt to re-hash it.

      ‘May you live in interesting times’ – no, bollocks, no.

      1. jason 7

        Re: More ignorance

        It is a shame when you have to keep stating basic facts over and over.

        The right-wing brainwashing in the USA really is something else. Powerful stuff.

      2. Truckle The Uncivil

        Re: More ignorance

        @Custard Fridge

        You got it right. I am old enough to remember.

    2. Hollerithevo Silver badge

      Re: More ignorance

      Immigrants came to the USA from the 1700s onward. The most came over in the 1800s/early 1900s. I think you will find that Europe has changed since then. So what shit are you referring to? We don't even need ten minutes to research why this is being done. We know that you previously had (and presumably still have) a rigorous control over your borders and that people coming in from these seven banned countries already get vetted up the wazoo, and are watched while they are in the USA.

      I agree that other countries, such as the UK, vet people coming in, but not as widely and intrusively as the USA are planning to do.

      I also think that 'racist left wing' is a bit odd. Not that left-wing people can't be racists...

    3. Pascal Monett Silver badge
      Trollface

      @ Aodhhan

      Congratulations, you managed a pretty good troll without any capital shouting. Well done.

      First, you admirably redirected the issue about immigration, when the article actually mentions "tourists, travelers and visa holders". Brilliant reduction to your personal arena, masterfully done.

      Then, having thus set the piece in your complete control, you take the mantel of authority to admonish The People about things they don't know. Of course, you follow by a pseudo-attack on the legitimacy of The People questioning government authority. A must, obviously.

      But the end is a bit disappointing, really. A little half-hearted rally on lefties and parrots, no, that's just weak. And repeating "left wing" twice in the same paragraph, tsk, tsk. That ending is a letdown, really. Not half as a good as the paragraph before.

      I'll give you a B -.

      Carry on.

      1. Pedigree-Pete
        Thumb Up

        Re: @ Aodhhan

        I hope I never invite a withering stare from you Pascal. PP

    4. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken

      Re: More ignorance

      "This message was brought to you by the Ministry of Truth."

    5. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: More ignorance

      "ask WHY something is being done."

      It's a good question and we'd like a sensible answer.

      I'll put to you a little exercise inn critical thinking that I put in repsonse to a similarly stupid post on a previous thread. After all, you seem keen on critical thinking.

      Change the attribute from a particular country or religion and see how much sense your argument makes.

      Most rape offences are committed by men therefore all men should be refused entry.

      Does it make sense? What's wrong with it? Have you learned anything from your brief attempt at thinking? If so, go back and apply it to your original argument and see if it still makes sense.

      And by the way, remember that some of us out here have experience of a terrorist campaigns extended over decades, campaigns financed in part from the US, a financing operation the USG did little to stem. We do not take kindly to attempted lectures on the evils of terrorism from US citizens or even presidents.

    6. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

      Re: More ignorance

      "Stop shouting out racist left wing talking points."

      What's that?

      "Stop being an ignorant parrot who just repeats what they hear."

      Like Trump repeating Bannon?

      "Take 10 minutes and research and ask WHY something is being done."

      Because Trump is paranoid and stupid, and most likely entering dementia?

      "Be a bit more critical when it comes to left wing crying points."

      Don't you mean be more like the most afraid people on the planet, the alt-right nervous wrecks that think every muslim is out to get them? Real stable and sensible folks.. Likes talking themselves into a frenzy. No wonder just must keep plenty of guns. The muslim boogie man is coming to get you. Trump can't sleep now because of the evil judges.

  46. Wolfclaw Silver badge

    If this gets enforced, then EU countries should do the same for US visitors, should make interesting reading for EU vetting agencies going through Trumps and other US elite bank accounts and social media !

  47. Captain Badmouth
    Headmaster

    Fake news

    "In order to make America safe, Kelly said he would need between 5,000 and 10,000 new staff. However he would accept fewer...."

    The real Kelly would have said "less".

  48. AJames

    Latest incident at Canadian border

    Reported in the Canadian press this morning, the case of a Muslim-Canadian woman with a Canadian passport, originally from Morocco (not a country on Trump's block list), traveling with her children to visit relatives in the U.S. as they have done many times before. She was stopped and detained, interrogated about her religious beliefs and her opinions of Donald Trump. They took her phone and demanded her password, then spent hours reviewing the contents. Grilled her about videos of prayer sessions. Finally blocked her entrance to the U.S. and sent her back after 4 hours because she might be a terrorist.

    1. Hollerithevo Silver badge

      Re: Latest incident at Canadian border

      It's not great that 'I do not like Donald Trump' is enough to block you from entering a country that prides itself on its defence of free speech and freedom of belief. Shouldn't that bother a lot of Americans? What kind of 'American values' are these? I guess we get to tear up those Norman Rockwell posters on the Four Freedoms. Don't pertain any more.

      1. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken

        Re: Latest incident at Canadian border

        Looks like Norman Rockwell is being replaced with George Lincoln Rockwell.

    2. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

      Re: Latest incident at Canadian border

      The only reason I would go to USA would be to tell them, at the border, what I think of Trump, and see how they handle it... Being Christian (culturally) and white they might ignore my opinions?

    3. AJames

      Re: Latest incident at Canadian border

      And still more similar incidents being reported in the last 2 days, including a Canadian-born Canadian citizen who happened to have Moroccan ancestry being stopped, questioned, required to give up his phone and password, and ultimately being refused entry with his university track team.

      http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/another-canadian-citizen-refused-entry-united-states-border-1.3976230

  49. Alistair Silver badge
    Windows

    While I'm *absolutely* not a Prez.Tweeter.Trump fan

    One thing that the media have been doing is jumping on the smallest hint of 'we want to do something' and immediately blasting it out without reservation.

    Despite the mess of Executive Orders that trump has flung out the door, the US does still have the other pillars of its system, and although the Republicans own the senate and the house, and the presidency, the *people* and the judiciary will still be there.

    Although the entire concept of "we want all your passwords" is utterly ridiculous this is likely to be handled better than the TSA's $7.50/hr not quite security guard type asking as you present your passport, and it rather strikes me that even *if* it eventually meandered through the system sufficiently to be implemented in any way there would be some sanity applied at some point.

    HOWEVER: (all the above said)

    It makes it abundantly clear *what level* of intelligence and forethought the crew(s) that trump has chosen to surround himself with are equipped with when they allow themselves to utter such complete and total nonsense in front of video cameras.

    Witless Kellyanne directly violating core ethics rules.

    Sad, Sad Sean insisting that everything everyone is "mediaing" is all lies.

    This ex military twat popping an off the cuff "idea" out of its mouth.

    The tweeter himself coming up with "longest wait for confirmation" shit that *clearly* he hasn't even thought to look up.

    This clueless lot of twats obviously think they are *VERY* special.

    1. Mephistro Silver badge
      Angel

      Re: While I'm *absolutely* not a Prez.Tweeter.Trump fan

      "This clueless lot of twats obviously think they are *VERY* special.·

      But in a sense, they're "special", aren't they?

      1. Captain Badmouth
        Happy

        Re: While I'm *absolutely* not a Prez.Tweeter.Trump fan

        "But in a sense, they're "special", aren't they?"

        Perhaps the word you're looking for is "Unique".

        1. jake Silver badge

          Re: While I'm *absolutely* not a Prez.Tweeter.Trump fan

          Cap'n, I suspect they were thinking more along the lines of "Olympics".

  50. Mystereed

    2FA may not protect you?

    Don't forget that they will want to know your telephone number and will probably be able to read the messages sent to it even if you left it at home and so can access any 2FA code to get access to the sites that they want?

    Same with emails.

    The securefobs will need a bit more work - like an arrangement with the manufacturers to have a method of reproducing the required code by detailing the serial number of the keyfob? If you leave that at home then you might be slightly better off.

    When we move to iris scans, we will probably have to send them an eyeball!

  51. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I agree with the new boss of the US Department of Homeland Security

    Ever since the Bowling Green Massacre, things have got real!

  52. Paul
    Coat

    new TV show

    Trump is a big fan of Reality TV. He clearly wants to remake an existing show but with a new twist and a new name, a program to reveal peoples' secrets, and it will be called "Stasi In Their Eyes."

    I'll get my coat.

    1. Captain Badmouth
      Happy

      Re: new TV show

      How about " The devil reads Pravda"?

  53. Revelationman

    Many of us have a several email accounts, social media., etc, the simple thing is create one password, for them all, then when you are safely pass security just changed your password, the question there seems to be no limits, where I stop is DNA and microchip, I rather live off the grid if it gets to that point

  54. zx122982685
    Happy

    Don't like it?

    Stay at home. #MAGA.

    1. jake Silver badge

      Re: Don't like it?

      What if they had told your (great)grandparents to "stay home"?

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