back to article Microsoft quietly emits patch to undo its earlier patch that broke Windows 10 networking

Microsoft has sneaked out a patch to get Windows 10 PCs back online after an earlier update broke networking for people's computers around the globe. Since the end of last week, systems in the UK, US, Europe and beyond have automatically installed software from Microsoft, via Windows Update, that broke DHCP. That means some …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Almost as if.....

    ...they don't know what they are doing.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Almost as if.....

      or manglement forced the new methods despite engineering.

      1. ecofeco Silver badge

        Re: Almost as if.....

        It's both, Jack.

  2. chivo243 Silver badge
    Headmaster

    Unacceptable

    Need I say anymore?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Unacceptable

      OK, someone clearly thinks that issuing a patch that stops computers all over the world from connecting to the network IS acceptable.

      I know the world is running out of network addresses, but refusing to give them to end users' PCs is going to help that problem.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Unacceptable

        I know the world is running out of network addresses, but refusing to give them to end users' PCs is going to help that problem.

        Ooh, that depends. Maybe somebody at Microsoft has found a dusty old copy of "The Limits to Growth", or is a closet follow of Malthus? As befits a dinosaur like Microsoft, rationing is a good soviet-style solution.

        But looking at the trajectory of Microsoft's business model, some might imagine that the code released was actually a broken bit of code actually intended to enable a future revenue stream of "internet connectivity as a service". Got a computer, Windows 10, and a broadband connection? Tough, unless you've paid this month's Redmond tax for the DCHP app, computer says no. An income stream as reliable as being an ISP, except that they don't have to have to build or own assets, or do anything gooky like run a big distributed telecoms network.

  3. Hans 1 Silver badge
    Windows

    Never admit fault

    It wasn't me, no, no, no, it wasn't me ...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHgCASkTzAU

  4. This post has been deleted by its author

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

      It's all part of Microsoft's cunning automated Suicide Plan for Windows 10 and the rest of their company.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

        Automated Suicide Plan, so that is what ".asp" stands for...

      2. PNGuinn
        Mushroom

        Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

        "It's all part of Microsoft's cunning automated Suicide Plan for Windows 10 and the rest of their company."

        If Slurp really did intend to commit suicide I'd like to say "Go right ahead, make it messy, make it painful, make it quick, and can I and millions of others watch?"

        But I won't. 'Cause I've been running 'Nix since w98. Wouldn't want to obstruct someone else's view.

        << Smug>>

      3. Frank Thynne

        Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

        I think the rolling update plan, with different branches for each class of user is an engineering fiasco that could bring Microsoft to its knees -- along with millions of users. Is there no Quality Assurance team in Microsoft confident enough to say "No, this product is not fit for release"?

        No chief engineer worth his salt would countenance such a scheme. And anyone who doubts that developing software for productive use requires engineering disciplines should not be in the business.

        It's such a shame. Just when Microsoft looked as if was going to get Windows right, they've blown it.

    2. Anonymous Coward Silver badge
      Mushroom

      Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

      Or, you know, you could run "ipconfig /release" and "ipconfig /renew" to get back online and then download the update.

      I know, I know, bitching and moaning about how things were better in the past (they really weren't) is much easier than actually dealing with the issue. I can remember computers failing because the (audio-type) tape got tangled up in the mechanism... that was slightly more complex to fix than this "ipconfig /release" "ipconfig /renew"

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

        "Or, you know, you could run "ipconfig /release" and "ipconfig /renew" to get back online and then download the update."

        The slight problem being that the average user is not supposed to know these commands, doesn't know how to get admin access to their terminal window, and because the computer isn't connected to the Internet can't look it up.

        My feeling is that every Windows PC should be supplied with a short, helpful user guide to the shell commands that may be needed, and how to use them, in case of emergency.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

          Nah,

          This is Msoft *helping* the little guy after screwing their partner network with free updates to W10... make W10 break so you need to take your PC to the local bit-fiddler to be mended.

          AC ex-little-bit-fiddler

        2. Rich 11 Silver badge

          Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

          every Windows PC should be supplied with a short, helpful user guide to the shell commands that may be needed, and how to use them

          Thirty years ago this is exactly what you found when you opened the box containing your nice new PC AT.

          1. Linker3000

            Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

            It's probably available online as a PDF. Oh, wait....

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

            "Thirty years ago this is exactly what you found when you opened the box containing your nice new PC AT."

            Exactly so. That was roughly when we bought a Dell with a 12.5MHz 80286 (!) which had comprehensive documentation. And a week later Michael Dell himself phoned up to ask what we were doing with it - it was the bleeding edge model.

            But it also cost around £10 000 inflation adjusted.

            Mac documentation of the period was also superb, including the interactive guide to train people on how to use a mouse.

            1. Aitor 1 Silver badge

              Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

              I learned ms-dos and gw-basic with the manuals. And they were TERRIBLY BAD, as they did not explain how the os worked, but were rather a collection of all the calls. Yet I got it.

          3. Snar

            Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

            For some reason, this gave me a mental image of a smiling garden gnome-type creature being bundled in the box.

            30 years ago I was a kollidge stoodint and could only afford an XT clone. My how the other half lived :)

        3. 40k slimez

          Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

          "My feeling is that every Windows PC should be supplied with a short, helpful user guide "

          They used to call these User Manuals back in the day..... not seen one since Windows 98 from M$...

          1. fidodogbreath Silver badge
            Coat

            Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

            They used to call these User Manuals back in the day....

            ... and they gave birth to the acronyms "RTFM" and (more recently) "TL;DR."

            Mine's the one with the unopened, shrink-wrapped user manual in the pocket.

        4. Indolent Wretch

          Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

          What it needs is a big red 'FIX' button in the centre of the desktop that can't be moved or removed and they press it for you before the software leaves the factory.

          1. Captain DaFt

            Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

            "What it needs is a big red 'FIX' button in the centre of the desktop that can't be moved or removed and they press it for you before the software leaves the factory."

            That's all well and a good idea, but what happens when an update bollixes the fix button?

            (And you know it's a 100% certainty that'd happen!) ☺

        5. Nolveys Silver badge

          Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

          My feeling is that every Windows PC should be supplied with a short, helpful user guide to the shell commands that may be needed, and how to use them, in case of emergency.

          A good option that keeps with MS's new policies would be to include a sealed envelope with "open me in case of OS failure due to updates" printed on it. Inside would be a large, glossy picture of SatNad with a big smile, giving the thumbs up as he fucks your wife.

          1. JLV Silver badge

            Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

            That kinda hits the Powershell vs cmd.exe dilemma though.

            Since El Reg's doomsday warning about cmd.exe being put to pasture I've finally had a go at PS. For complicated sysadmin stuff, like real functions with computations and environmental access, ps is arguably a bit ahead of bash. But, for simple stuff, like a 'ls | grep foo' you have to struggle through the implications of 'everything is an an object, not text'. That makes it way harder than bash for quick and dirty adhoc commands, lots of reading to do. Not to mention that scripts are disabled by default.

            If users couldn't get a grip on cmd they are gonna be totally lost with powershell.

        6. gcla72

          Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

          What like?

          /usr/share/man

        7. Roland6 Silver badge

          Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

          "My feeling is that every Windows PC should be supplied with a short, helpful user guide to the shell commands that may be needed, and how to use them, in case of emergency."

          Pointless for the average Joe; bit like the idea of self-driving cars handing full manual control over to the human, who until that point has been playing with their mobile...

          Given, we were able to get a full OS complete with GUI into sub 1MB of RAM back in the 80's. I suggest we should be able to burn a complete PE recovery OS into the BIOS (This means the recovery OS is available for those occasions when either the HDD fails or is unable to boot into an OS.). User need only press the button typically engraved with cogs, spanner etc. that many vendors put on keyboards for maintenance mode to gain access and undertake various actions, such as uninstall updates, fetch new updates, enable remote access etc.

        8. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
          Windows

          Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

          My feeling is that every Windows PC should be supplied with a short, helpful user guide to the shell commands that may be needed, and how to use them, in case of emergency.

          It's almost as if you wish the old DOS days to be back!

        9. TVU

          Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

          "My feeling is that every Windows PC should be supplied with a short, helpful user guide to the shell commands that may be needed, and how to use them, in case of emergency."

          I'd go further than that; every Win 10 PC or laptop ought be be supplied with a free USB stick or DVD on which there's a Linux distro which can take over temporarily or full time when Win 10 stuffs up (as it tends to do on multiple occasions).

        10. PNGuinn
          Trollface

          Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online? @Voyna

          "My feeling is that every Windows PC should be supplied with a short, helpful user guide to the shell commands that may be needed, and how to use them, in case of emergency."

          My feeling is that every Windows PC should be supplied with a bid reg emergency button labelled "In case of emergency: Press to Install Real Operating System"

          There FIFY

        11. Old Lady

          Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

          I don't have Windows 10 but I know people who do. Now I am very lucky in that I have a friend whose son manages a computer repair shop so if I get stuck I can always pick his brains or if I can't be bothered I pay him to do the work. As you say most people wouldn't know where to start so how about you & others on here writing a more detailed explanation on how to solve the problem I sure El Reg wouldn't mind. Then people like me who have no where near your knowledge but are few steps ahead of the masses could help those who haven't got a clue.

        12. Aitor 1 Silver badge

          Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

          My mother does not even understand the fundamental difference between a website and an app... so how is she supposed to go to the command line? oddly enough, it was my elderly father (almost 80) who had to go to the command line and do it.

          So, when the command line gets substitued by a modified powershell, how is he going to fix things?

      2. David Black

        Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

        Did "ipconfig /release" and "ipconfig /renew" actually work for you? I'm trying to get a machine running remotely and it didn't work and neither did the soft restart that MS suggested might work.

        1. gerdesj Silver badge
          Joke

          Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

          "Did "ipconfig /release" and "ipconfig /renew" actually work for you? I'm trying to get a machine running remotely and it didn't work"

          You funny.

        2. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge
          Stop

          Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

          Did "ipconfig /release" and "ipconfig /renew" actually work for you?

          Didn't work for my elder brother when I was talking him through trying to get his main work PC to pick up the network..

        3. Howard Long

          Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

          Nope, ipconfig /release and /renew alone certainly did not work for me, it was the first thing I tried before discovering there was something else more subtle afoot. It needed those previously published pair of netsh commands plus a restart.

          1. Chris King Silver badge

            Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

            It didn't work for one machine I tested. Looking at my DHCP server logs, it was getting halfway through the "DORA" cycle (Discover, Offer, Request, Accept).

            The client shouted out for a server, the server answered back, but then the client clamped its hands over its ears while singing "la-la-la, I can't hear you" and self-assigned itself a 169.254 address.

            Not such much "DORA", more "DOH" (Discover, Offer, Hard-of-hearing).

        4. Adam JC

          Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

          The actual fix you're looking for is 'netsh winsock reset' my friend.

        5. John 48

          Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

          So far a straight release and renew has not worked on any affected machines I have tried it on. However this has worked:

          netsh winsock reset catalog

          netsh int ipv4 reset reset.log

          Also I have noticed that its not uncommon for the problem to only strike one network interface, so I have been able to successfully fix some laptops remotely via wifi even though their ethernet was borked.

      3. Jimbo1954

        Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

        It would be simple, as you explain, but how may Win10 users know of the CLI, let alone are able to use it to control their PC. Macroshaft and others have dumbed-down the userbase with their WinDoze to such an extent that even something as basic as this fix would be impossible for a significant part of the userbase.

        And anyway - DHCP has been round since Methusla was in short trousers, so WHY were MacroShaft messing with it...It implies that they either got it wrong a long time ago and only just realised and patched it, or they were up to some other badness, probably related to chasing users for their data (paranoid? Moi?...Nah, just a realist!)

        1. JimC

          Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

          Microsoft have never been that great at DHCP. There was a feature of the way Win2000 and I think some other versions cached DHCP leases between reboots which caused us problems with our high availability cross site DHCP setup.

          I forget the details, but I *think* it was something to do with the machine preserving a lease between reboots and refusing to allocate an IP address if it couldn't contact that particular DHCP server even if there was DHCP active on another IP address. If I recall correctly it meant that if a server had to be taken down for maintenance then clients rebooted with an active lease would fail to get an IP address, but clients rebooted that had no cached lease would work just fine.

          Once we were able to cluster DHCP on a single IP address it became much less of a problem, but it seemed plain dumb that DHCP forwarding as per RFC lets you specify multiple servers for resilience but Microsoft's caching effectively broke or at least bent that resilience.

        2. Aitor 1 Silver badge

          Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

          I think you got it right.

          In order for you not to be able to opt out, they are mangling the network... so even if you put some things as 127.0.0.1 in the hosts file, windows will ignore it and give you info.

          Maybe they are doing the same with DHCP in case the DHCP does the trick.. and they mangled it.

      4. Dazed and Confused

        Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

        Or, you know, you could run "ipconfig /release" and "ipconfig /renew" to get back online and then download the update.

        Sure, that was the first thing I tried on the Misses' laptop and it worked.

        But

        There is zero chance I'm going to be able to get my mother to type those commands on her's. She now reads emails and will finally even read text messages on her phone, but despite having worked as a typist in the past she is not prepared to send email or texts. The chances of getting her (and I'm extrapolating from her) and millions of similar people to do an ipconfig... are zero.

        If she gets the problem it will have to wait until I can drive over and see her. In the mean time I'll just hope she's not been affected, and hope even more that if she has, my father who as debenture hasn't tried to fix it for her.

      5. John 104

        Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

        @ipconfig /release /renew

        Seriously? Do you realize the horrendously small percentage of computer users who would even know how to open a command prompt? Expand your world view and realize how useless this suggestion is to the masses...

        1. Stuart Elliott
          Facepalm

          Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

          Yet 99% of the posters on here would suggest you use Linux instead, which is SO much more user friendly in that regards...

      6. A.A.Hamilton

        Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

        Ah that's all fixed then, isn't it? You did validate the assumption that the large number of users* who are well past the age of geek-ness fully understand " run "ipconfig /release" and "ipconfig /renew" to get back online" - didn't you?

        * btw you do FULLY appreciate the difference between a user and a subject matter expert, yes?

      7. desht

        Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

        "Or, you know, you could run "ipconfig /release" and "ipconfig /renew" to get back online and then download the update."

        But that would require the command-line, which as everyone knows, is reserved for those weird Linux neckbeard types. Windows is far too modern to need any of that nonsense, we're told. Can't we just ask Cortana to fix it for us?

      8. Kiwi Silver badge
        FAIL

        Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

        Or, you know, you could run "ipconfig /release" and "ipconfig /renew" to get back online and then download the update.

        And, without access to online resources, you find out to do that how?

      9. commonsense

        Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

        "know, I know, bitching and moaning about how things were better in the past (they really weren't) is much easier than actually dealing with the issue. "

        Couldn't agree more. Stuff happens, deal with it. People who don't know it? Well it's always been like that and always will be like that. They keep "The Tech Guys" in business. And the alternative that is trotted out ad infinitum is "Install Linux". Right.

        The assumption seems to be that Windows has to be bulletproof and any deviation is a result of the resident Satan at Microsoft. I'm not saying the update process is great, but at least there is a fix, and people can either choose to work it out and research, or call their local IT expert and ask them to fix it.

    3. David Black

      Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

      Couldn't agree more, this is worst half-assed fix description ever.

      I've been supporting my elderly father with his windows 10 machine (actually a nice bit of kit, large keyboard for his slightly less agile fingers and a lovely bright clear screen but jesus what a god awful OS) for 18 months now and it's been a total shitefest. As someone who is significantly housebound, Skype is great for him to stay in touch yet 4 times I've now had to remote access the machine to fix it due to whatever the fuck microsoft is doing to a once stable platform. Another update screwed the video driver which was a PITA to fix cause it messed with the remote desktop view too... but in about 3h I got him to execute the right sequence to patch the driver. There was the browser patch that cleared all his cookies... cheers for that, luckilly I kept a text file laying around with everything in it, but still he has to remember and re-type everything. Now this crap. How the fuck am I supposed to remotely fix his machine when it won't connect to the internet??? Sure I'll see him on boxing day when I fly up to see him, but still, now he'll miss seeing the grandkids on Christmas day and his social isolation will be compounded. Either that or I have to pay one of the crappy service places a stupid sum to do microsofts bidding.

      Seriously, fuck you microsoft if this is what you do to your customers.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

        Can you create a live USB of Linux Mint or ZorinOS to try on his equipment? I put Zorin on a neighbours desktop several years ago and other than making sure he's kept up with updates, very easy to do, It's really easy to use.

        1. herman Silver badge

          Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

          Pretty much *all* Linux install CDs are Live CDs. So download anyone of about ten billion distributions, burn the ISO file to a disk or USB schtick and boot it.

        2. Roland6 Silver badge

          Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

          Can you create a live USB of Linux Mint or ZorinOS to try on his equipment?

          Whilst this is a good idea, it doesn't go far enough.

          From all the available evidence this is an issue with Windows messing up it's runtime configuration. In these instance's the challenge is getting Windows to reset and start up correctly. I mean how do you achieve the same effect as using "ipconfig /release" and "ipconfig /renew" on a running Windows box from a Live USB?

          Given where David Black is coming from, the Live USB needs to be able to control the running of the host OS (treat host OS installed on HDD as a VM?) and provide him with remote maintenance access, also wholly independent of the host OS...

          1. mistersaxon

            Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

            You misunderstand - the Zorin install is to replace WIn10 entirely, not just to get access for patching it. Well, that was my reading of it, the theory being that it doesn't get massively shafted every month in the name of "progress".

      2. Jess

        Re: supporting my elderly father with his windows 10 machine

        Presumably he took your advice in the purchase?

        So why does he have a Windows machine?

        Every IT person I know (myself included) makes sure every family member or friend that they support for free has a Mac. (Or failing that a PC with Linux mint).

        My parents have an old white macbook, after about 10 years it's just getting to the point where they will be thinking of replacing it, I would have expected them to go through 3 or 4 cheap PCs or maybe a couple of decent ones in that time.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: supporting my elderly father with his windows 10 machine

          really? Having worked in IT for 20 years I know no one outside of work with a MAC, in our IT department we have 8 of us all HATE anything Apple with a passion

          1. Chemist

            Re: supporting my elderly father with his windows 10 machine

            "Having worked in IT for 20 years I know no one outside of work with a MAC"

            You should get out more. I don't use Mac or Windows but I know 5 or 6 at least with a desktop or laptop.

          2. Scoobydoobry
            Thumb Up

            Re: supporting my elderly father with his windows 10 machine

            Also having worked in IT for 20 years, my colleagues and I hate anything Apple in a business environment. The original poster is probably correct in saying he may of had 4 or 5 PC's during the ownership of the older Mac but he would of been able to afford them as Apple prices are ridiculous. They cannot these days be fixed or upgraded outside of the Apple store, which by the way, everything has to go back to!! Every tried getting an appointment urgently?

            I'm not saying Windows is perfect....far from it. But for me, the cheaper equipment costs, the ability to maintain and upgrade "in -house" beats the "shiny-shiny" factor hands down.

            Mac's may work well for a home/single user but networked in a mixed OS environment, they are about as much use as t*ts on a nun!

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: supporting my elderly father with his windows 10 machine

              Mac's may work well for a home/single user but networked in a mixed OS environment, they are about as much use as t*ts on a nun!

              I beg to differ. I've worked in quite a few places that use Windows and Macs. It just takes a bit of work and learning to integrate the two. If you can't manage that then you really, really don't belong in IT.

              1. herman Silver badge

                Re: supporting my elderly father with his windows 10 machine

                ...and where I work, there are many 'Engineering' laptops that run some sort of Linux. When the Windows drones complain about not being able to do something, we just nod and carry on working.

            2. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: supporting my elderly father with his windows 10 machine

              "he may of had" -> "he may have had"

              Because that one actually means something.

          3. sqlrob

            Re: supporting my elderly father with his windows 10 machine

            Really? You don't know anyone outside of works that uses https regularly? Wow.

          4. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: supporting my elderly father with his windows 10 machine

            Having worked in IT for 20 years I know no one outside of work with a MAC

            That's not working in IT for 20 years - that's repeating one year for 20 years..

            I bet you've never used linux, BSD or Solaris either. Must be sad and lonely to be so inexperienced.

          5. herman Silver badge

            Re: supporting my elderly father with his windows 10 machine

            It sounds like you are part of the problem, not part of the solution. Nobody pays me to fix my own machine, or those of my parents, so we are all using Macs and the support issues are practically zero.

          6. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

            Re: supporting my elderly father with his windows 10 machine

            "Having worked in IT for 20 years I know no one outside of work with a MAC, in our IT department we have 8 of us all HATE anything Apple with a passion"

            And do you have a reason for that?

            Or is it like football rivalry? You have to HATE the others.. Just because..

            A modern mac is a Unix machine with a very slick UI. Much more thought though than any other Unix machine so far, including the Linux ones. But you pay for the privilege, which is why I only run an older Mac Mini. But macOS runs much faster on the ageing Core 2 Duo than Windows does on the equivalent platform -and sadly most Linux distros are bloated and nothing like I remember Linux used to be.

            If you don't want to have to pick a Linux distro, and just want something that just works, I'd say go for a Mac.

        2. Roland6 Silver badge

          Re: supporting my elderly father with his windows 10 machine

          My parents have an old white macbook, after about 10 years it's just getting to the point where they will be thinking of replacing it,

          If your parents are in their 80's then enjoy the fun and games of upgrading them :)

          People in this age group, whilst not unable to learn do prefer to use stuff and methods they are familiar with - hence why when migrating from Windows to Linux say, it is helpful to provide them with a desktop and application suite that provide a similar UI to whichever version of Windows and applications they've been using.

      3. TheDataRecoverer

        Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

        pick an alternative mechanism.....http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/fed-up-with-skype-here-are-6-of-the-best-free-alternatives Set him up a google hangout, or whatever: skye isn't the only game in town here!

        1. Flocke Kroes Silver badge

          Re: Alternatives to skype

          If the requirement is VoIP, then get something reliable. Ekiga runs on a Pi.

          1. Dazed and Confused

            Re: Alternatives to skype

            The problem with not using Skype is that everyone you want to talk to does use Skype.

            If the grandkids say, Grandma why don't you use Skype, then you get your ears bent because the PC you set up for her doesn't use Skype.

            It's also the case that abominations like flash on websites (which of course should be outlawed) exist and are easier to deal with in Windows.

            If I knew my mother would only do things which worked on Linux I'd have setup her PC using Linux. My bother and I both work in Linux and would find it much easier. But she also gets very useful help from grand kids, and they don't work with Linux.

            Windows is what most people use because it is what most people use.

            I wish it wasn't, I wish there was something much simpler that just worked.

            Facetime is not the answer unless all the people you talk to are also Apple users. As my mother knew 70 or more years ago, when your house is the only one in the village with a telephone you can't use it to talk to anyone else in the village.

        2. chas49

          Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

          And how will alternatives to Skype work when his computer can't connect? Do they come with a free pair of tin cans and a ball of string?

      4. TVU

        Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

        "...Sure I'll see him on boxing day when I fly up to see him, but still, now he'll miss seeing the grandkids on Christmas day and his social isolation will be compounded. Either that or I have to pay one of the crappy service places a stupid sum to do microsofts bidding.

        Seriously, fuck you microsoft if this is what you do to your customers."

        I am sorry that this happened to your father and this is the downside of poor testing and quality control of updates (and indeed Win 10 itself) by Microsoft.

        My constructive suggestion is to look at installing Linux (no cost), using Chrome OS on a Chromebook (modest cost) or getting a 2015 Macbook Pro (high cost and not the 2016 version).

      5. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

        "I've been supporting my elderly father with his windows 10 machine"

        "with his windows 10 machine"

        "windows 10"

        What did you expect? Windows 10 to not Auto Update?

        This is like you wanted a can of worms, but you also wanted the worms to stay in the can when opened.

        Seriously, unless you want this to happen again and again, you really should change some settings or use another OS (windows 7/8, linux, macOS, windows 10 enterprise).

    4. keithpeter
      Coat

      Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

      "And just HOW, precisely, would I get the fix on a computer that can't go online to get the fix?"

      Boot off a USB stick containing a live Linux distribution[1], connect to wifi[2], and then download the fix file and save it to a second USB stick. Reboot, copy and patch.

      [1] Canonical will sell you a USB stick with Ubuntu on it for a fiver. There are many others, including Tails.

      [2] OK, perhaps a cable into the router if the computer does not have wifi or has a proprietary driver that isn't widely available on Linux yet - fairly rare.

      Coat: mine's the one with the bootable USB drive with Debian non-free live on it AND a netgear USB wifi adaptor that does not require any firmware.

      1. Kiwi Silver badge
        Linux

        Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

        Boot off a USB stick containing a live Linux distribution[1], connect to wifi[2], and then download the fix file and save it to a second USB stick. Reboot, copy and patch.

        Better yet.. 1 Boot Live USB, 2 connect Wifi/LAN, 3 click on that nice "Install" icon and 4 (10 minutes later) have a nice secure OS that'll save you time, money and follicles.

    5. grumpy-old-person

      Re: ,So there's an online fix for not being able to get online?

      The only way to retain one's sanity is to abandon Windows completely - if you can't, then use Windows in VirtualBox for the miserable things that only work on Windows.

  5. Doc Ock

    Never mind the quality, feel the width.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      This is clearly the year of Microsoft on the desktop.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    So why, oh why do you still trust these clowns?

    It's not clear which Windows Update patch caused the cockup, as Microsoft is deliberately vague about the contents of each upgrade on its website, and the Redmond giant refused to say which download was the culprit.

    If you are in need of platform security to protect, say, business confidentiality or customer details, would you really feel comfortable with what oozes out of Redmond, especially now they've gone extra opaque "to protect the customers themselves" (I corrected their marketing with what reality there)? You have no clue what's going to happen next - every single update could take down if not your company (because you're forced to commit extra resources to thoroughly test each patch without even knowing what you're testing for), then your customers, and guess who they'll blame?

    That said, those who didn't notice the wake-up call called Vista many years ago and then the reasons that gave Windows 10 the nick name "Slurp" probably deserve what they get. It's not like they haven't had enough warning by now..

    1. Halfmad Silver badge

      Re: So why, oh why do you still trust these clowns?

      Thing is it's getting worse with the cumulative patching adopted by Microsoft. I know in the NHS it's caused problems with various clinical systems so CCGs/Trusts/Boards are forced to either run a few months behind security patch wise and hope someone else spots the problem, run ludicrously expensive testing of clinical systems in-house and maybe run a month behind or patch and cross their fingers.

      At least with previous updates we could remove the offending patch, now MS are less likely to tell us which it was and even if they did we'd have to remove the entire cumulative patch instead.

    2. Flocke Kroes Silver badge

      Re: Wake-up call

      How many wake up calls were there?

      Mine was:

      Install Linux, copy /home from old disk, copy a few config files backups from /home/backup to /. New Linux machine complete with a tested recovery procedure in under an hour. Never needed to do a full restore.

      Install Windows 95. [Install driver, reboot]x5. Do not install two drivers in a row without rebooting. Failure to comply will require re-installing Windows 95. With practice, I got this down to 11 hours + time required to install software (just games, I did not trust Windows with valuable data).

      A more modern example would be Microsoft repeatedly screaming that the value of Windows 10 to users was £0. They phrased that statement as: "Do not click the x to avoid a secret upregrade to 10 when you are not watching."

  7. Len Goddard

    Emergency boot partition

    Just goes to show the initial windoze installation process is borked. It misses the step at the end :

    "Now install a linux dual-boot partition so that you still have access to the internet to find out why your windoze system won't do what it should"

    This is supposing you have some really good reason to be using Windoze to start with, like gaming or perhaps gaming?

    1. gv

      Re: Emergency boot partition

      The correct way to run Windows, should you need to, is as a virtual machine in some other (non-Windows) operating system.

      1. JulieM Silver badge

        Re: Emergency boot partition

        I've actually been thinking of running the WIndows 10 that most probably will come free with my next laptop whether I want it or not, as a VM under the Ubuntu (yes, with Unity; I am the one person, apparently, who actually likes it) Linux that I am definitely going to install on it, just for a laugh and carry-on.

        I mean, if they are going to make me pay for it, I might as well see if I can make some sort of use of it, right? A virtual machine that can be restored from a pristine image at any time and with strictly limited access to hardware sounds like a fairly safe environment for running Windows software, after all .....

        1. keithpeter
          Windows

          Re: Emergency boot partition

          "(yes, with Unity; I am the one person, apparently, who actually likes it)"

          @JulieM: it's reverse Streisand syndrome. Only the ones who hate Unity mention it at all. The happy bunnies just get on with their work.

          (I'm the one who likes Gnome 3).

      2. Flocke Kroes Silver badge

        Re: Emergency boot partition

        Clueless newby (to any Windows after 98) question: What if my new Windows VM tries to get an IP address via DHCP?

      3. Howard Long

        Re: Emergency boot partition

        Indeed... except (a) some software is specifically not supported on VMs and (b) neither is some hardware (many peripheral PCIe cards for example).

        While VMs are a great solution for many things they are not a universal panacea.

        1. JulieM Silver badge

          Re: Emergency boot partition

          How does the software even know it is running in a VM? Surely a perfect implementation should be indistinguible from bare metal, by any test that can be performed in software totally within the VM?

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Emergency boot partition

      Actually, the emergency Linux boot partition is only the penultimate step. The ultimate step is to then ask yourself "why the fuck am I booting into Windows when I could boot into Linux instead - something which works and doesn't cost me money?" Which is the reason you'll never see the installation process adopt your suggestion.

    3. Carl D

      Re: Emergency boot partition

      "Now install a linux dual-boot partition so that you still have access to the internet to find out why your windoze system won't do what it should"

      Funny how I received twice as many downvotes as upvotes (10/5) when I mentioned this in another topic.

      http://forums.theregister.co.uk/forum/1/2016/12/14/reschedule_holiday_party_its_patch_tuesday/#c_3054097

      The only difference is, of course, that my Windows 7 doesn't have Internet access. Ever.

      I'm guessing the MS fanboys must have been out in force earlier... getting their trolling out of the way before this month's Patch Tuesday offerings bork their machines... again. Especially if they're using the abomination known as Windows 10.

      1. This post has been deleted by its author

  8. Dan McIntyre

    Updating my Dell Ultrabook via TeamViewer now. I've turned the mobile connection on, just in case.

  9. Dan McIntyre

    I'm glad I did turn mobile back on. It's lost DHCP and is now downloading yet another update over a 4G connection.

  10. Adam 52 Silver badge

    "after some not-so-gentle persuasion by El Reg this week, there's finally a solution in sight"

    Much as we all love El Reg, I expect the BBC News story had more influence.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Don't think it was the Reg or the BBC .... my VirginMedia broadband status says

      " We are aware that some customers using windows PCs are having issues getting online following a Microsoft Windows 10 update. We are in contact with Microsoft about this issue and will provide further updates as soon as possible.

      Our engineer is working to fix the problem."

      So ... looks like VM deployed their engineer to address this and I can only assume that he fixed it!

  11. lukewarmdog

    Rebooting

    So I turned my wifes PC off and on again after staring at it for the requisite amount of time and realising it wasn't going to fix itself and all the things I'd just tried hadn't worked.

    Fine after a first reboot.

    Couple of days later same thing on my own machine. My machine is a bit more annoying as it's a floor down from the router so not as easy to keep an eye on whether connectivity has returned or not. Again, after checking all the cables were fine I just ended up rebooting and was fine.

    The previous article to this says that rebooting doesn't always work but my experience from this was that it did the trick on those two machines.

    As for "how am I meant to patch this when I can't get online?" - this is no different to those times when your network card driver would go kaput and you'd need to download a new / updated one. The good old days were just as bad and it hasn't always been Microsoft's fault.

    1. Roo
      Windows

      Re: Rebooting

      "As for "how am I meant to patch this when I can't get online?" - this is no different to those times when your network card driver would go kaput and you'd need to download a new / updated one. "

      in the good old days I'd just rollback the previous update... Or failing that hunt down a recovery floppy/bootable CD/USB stick with Linux on it. Thankfully this still works today. :)

  12. tblacklock1972

    Turning the (cork)screw

    "It's all part of riding Microsoft's new operating system updates rollercoaster."

    Can I get off now please? I'm feeling a bit queasy.

    1. Nolveys Silver badge

      Re: Turning the (cork)screw

      Can I get off now please? I'm feeling a bit queasy.

      The ride never ends.

      1. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

        Re: Turning the (cork)screw

        Can I get off now please? I'm feeling a bit queasy.

        The ride never ends.

        It's the gift that keeps on giving. Like herpes or genital warts.

  13. Martijn Otto
    Joke

    Very strange

    I thought the update breaking DHCP was brilliant. It really improved the safety of the machines as they cannot download viruses and trojans without a working internet connection.

    Why they would let these machines loose on the world wide web is beyond me.

  14. Lee D Silver badge

    That's what you want.

    A company insisting on applying automatic updates to all computers with its software installed, without any veto, no hint of release note of what changes or when, and no statement on what is fixed, ever, when a major problem does happen, or whether they even found the cause officially at all.

    And then you wonder why people DO NOT WANT that on the machines they run their personal and work lives on.

  15. W4YBO

    New legends?

    When I clicked the Start button, "Restart" and "Shutdown" had been replaced by "Update and Restart" and "Update and Shutdown". Is that new, or have I just missed it in the past?

    1. Jess

      Re: New legends?

      Pretty sure that goes back to Windows 7 at least.

      1. Updraft102 Silver badge

        Re: New legends?

        Windows 7 only had "update and..." on one of them (either restart or shut down), not both, and it only did that if you had it set to "automatically download and install" or "automatically download, but let me decide when to install.) If you had it set to "Notify but don't download" or "Never check", you could shut down and restart without interference.

        It's nice to have the choice.

        No, I misspoke (er, wrote). It's necessary to have the choice.

        1. Lee D Silver badge

          Re: New legends?

          Install Classic Shell, turn that kind of thing off while getting a much more customisable start menu at the same time, for free.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: New legends?

            "Install Classic Shell, turn that kind of thing off while getting a much more customisable start menu at the same time, for free."

            Agree except that you should send the nice man some money, he deserves it.

    2. Lyndon Hills 1

      Re: New legends?

      When I clicked the Start button, "Restart" and "Shutdown" had been replaced by "Update and Restart" and "Update and Shutdown". Is that new, or have I just missed it in the past?

      It just means that there are updates to be installed. When they have been installed, the legends will return to what they were before. Until next time...

      1. Kiwi Silver badge
        Windows

        Re: New legends?

        It just means that there are updates to be installed.

        When they have been installed, the legends will return to what they were before machine may not ever boot again, but if it does you will find either that some bit of hardware no longer works, or some software (including purchased software) may have been deleted, or your account changed to a MS cloud account - which you don't have a password or recovery system for (all your data on by-default full encrypted disk, which has been changed, so no recovery options...), a gamble of "what do you want broken today?"

        FTFY.

    3. Tim Seventh

      Re: New legends?

      From Windows 7,

      When Widows Update Setting has been picked to "Download updates but let me choose whether to install them". It will change the "Shutdown" option to "Update and Shutdown" in the Start Menu after windows downloaded updates.

      It's from the past.

  16. You Are Not Free

    You want control of updates on your Win10 PC? Easy!

    Just disable the windows update service and reboot.

    Then when you feel like it's safe to do an update run, you know what to do.

    1. dajames Silver badge

      Re: You want control of updates on your Win10 PC? Easy!

      Just disable the windows update service and reboot.

      Then when you feel like it's safe to do an update run, you know what to do.

      That's really not the point ... or did you forget the "Joke" icon?

      People want control not just over whether they apply any updates, but over which updates they apply and which they eschew. They also, obviously, need a simple no-nonsense statement of what each update does.

      I fully understand that Microsoft's job is made easier if they can simply assume that every user has all the available updates installed, so the update process starts from a known and well-understood baseline on each occasion ... but users do need to be able to refuse or remove updates that break their systems. Only when Microsoft can demonstrate that all their patches have been thoroughly tested before release, and found not to cause problems, should they be allowed to even consider removing user control over the update process.

    2. Roland6 Silver badge

      Re: You want control of updates on your Win10 PC? Easy!

      Just disable the windows update service and reboot.

      Then when you feel like it's safe to do an update run, you know what to do.

      Whilst this may seem sensible advice, it is in fact one of the best ways to cause future problems.

      Firstly, before you turn off the update service, you need to be sure that all downloaded updates have been installed. Having particuallr installed updates hanging around can cause problems when you decide to update other software and will cause problems with any future Windows updates.

      Secondly, with the update service turned off, unless you are disciplined, it is very easy for a month or two go by and before you know it your system hasn't been updated for over a year. Just had a Windows 8.1 system that hadn't been updated since June 2015 (updates were turned off due to the release of GWX), it took the best part of a week to get this system fully updated and restored to full working order. Installing all updates was the simplest way of getting the required updates and their precursors installed, However, as we know during this time MS have released updates to the update service and a few hundred updates, which give Windows Update a problem and cause a system to seemingly hang for a few days whilst it sorts itself out...

      Personally, I'm happy for most important updates to be auto installed, with only those that touch the network adaptor and/or stack getting put to one side and being applied with great care - lesson learnt with XP and still applies to 7, 8.1 and especially with 10 which is known to have an update service that takes exception to AV software...

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: You want control of updates on your Win10 PC? Easy!

        "Whilst this may seem sensible advice, it is in fact one of the best ways to cause future problems."

        currentProblems: Windows 10 update loop, broken start menu, broken Web cam, broke Internet

        futureProblems: A week of updating

        err...

        if(currentProblems < futureProblems){

        Windows.Update();}

        else {

        Windows.NoUpdate();

        Windows.Offline();

        Install.Linux();}

      2. Kiwi Silver badge
        WTF?

        Re: You want control of updates on your Win10 PC? Easy!

        ust had a Windows 8.1 system that hadn't been updated since June 2015 (updates were turned off due to the release of GWX), it took the best part of a week to get this system fully updated and restored to full working order.

        I could take a Linux system of similar vintage, and on a decent-enough connection have it fully updated inside an hour, maybe hour and a half for a slower system. Have done 2yo LTS releases in 40 minutes on single-core laptops. And one reboot at the end of it to make sure the process is completed, with normal shutdown/startup speeds as the entire update process is done in one hit, the restart only to pick up any kernel changes.

        Why people think that anything more than 2 hours is acceptable, or a long shutdown/start up is acceptable, is still beyond me.

      3. BitDr
        Windows

        Re: You want control of updates on your Win10 PC? Easy!

        Then you have broken the EULA... the numbered paragraph below is from the W10 EULA.

        6. Updates. The software periodically checks for system and app updates, and downloads and installs them for you. You may obtain updates only from Microsoft or authorized sources, and Microsoft may need to update your system to provide you with those updates. By accepting this agreement, you agree to receive these types of automatic updates without any additional notice.

        I suppose M$ could revoke the license, make the O/S non-genuine, and make life (more) miserable than it is... naaaaahhh they wouldn't do that... would they?

        1. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

          Re: You want control of updates on your Win10 PC? Easy!

          Well, sadly, in this day and age, the MS EULA can't even be used to wipe one's arse with.

  17. This post has been deleted by its author

    1. sqlrob

      Re: TV Advert - Windows 10 - Tablets - You Need 'Em

      Really? You don't get that with a Mac?

      Have you missed the articles about patches breaking ethernet and iPhones/iPads getting knocked off WiFi?

      1. This post has been deleted by its author

  18. Superdupont

    precise symptoms of failure ?

    I think I had this problem 5 days ago : my wifi gave only a "limited connexion" : was seeing the wifi networks but unable to connect.

    Runing the "ipconfig " command showed an ipv4 address 169.254.xxx.

    I tried a lot of solutions found on internet :

    Restarting the pc was of no help.

    I think that deactivating the wifi connexion, reactivating it and powering off the machine fixed the problem at next power on (ip address 192.168....). Problem did not reappear.

    1. 2+2=5 Silver badge
      Black Helicopters

      Re: precise symptoms of failure ?

      > Runing the "ipconfig " command showed an ipv4 address 169.254.xxx.

      It's good that you are thinking about security, but you don't really need to anonymise a 169.254.0.0/16 address. :-)

    2. Sir Runcible Spoon Silver badge

      Re: precise symptoms of failure ?

      Yeah, sometimes I've had to disable the network driver, reboot and then re-enable it for windows to untwist it's knickers.

      Bring back tcp/ip I say (oh and wfwg 3.11 whilst you are at it!)

    3. SidF

      Re: precise symptoms of failure ?

      netsh winsock reset catalog and netsh int ipv4 reset reset.log worked for me with a machine that was the same as yours, showed unidentified network on the wireless connection and had the 169 address.

  19. David Pollard
    Joke

    That's a nice internet you've got there

    Of late there has been a great deal of discussion about DDOS attacks and so forth and the possibility that a foreign power might bring the internet down, thus causing huge economic damage. The recent disconnection of a few computers is a broad hint to ensure that no one will forget exactly who the boss is.

  20. jasper pepper

    Dear volunteer testers...

    The GWX debacle should have been enough to demonstrate beyond reasonable that doubt that setting automatic updates on was not in your interests. How many more times does microsoft need to c o ck things up before everyone gets the message?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Dear volunteer testers...

      "How many more times does microsoft need to c o ck things up before everyone gets the message?"

      A minor point - cock in cock up is not rude. It's a printing term from cold metal when, if a letter wasn't inserted properly in the forme so it stuck up slightly at an angle, there was an area of bad print around it; the letter was cocked (as in trigger mechanism) up, and so a cock up.

      The Reg doesn't care in any case.

      1. Kevin Johnston

        Re: Dear volunteer testers...

        <pedant alert>

        Cock up is even older than that...it came from archery where the cock feather is at right angles to the bowstring when the arrow is correctly nocked and the arrow can fly true when loosed. If fitted the other way round the arrow flies off at a very strange angle as you have made a 'cock-up'

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Dear volunteer testers...<pedant alert>

          It wouldn't be the first time that an expression arose independently in different trades. I doubt many printers faced with a forme with a sticking up letter thought "ooh that's just like an arrow the wrong way round. I wonder what they call that?" He'd just think, "O bugger, the apprentice has cocked it up, better get it fixed and hope the boss doesn't notice the scrap paper."

          My point wasn't about priority of invention, just that the term isn't in any sense rude or coarse.

  21. Matt Collins

    Never can quite get it right, can they?

    So, all the open source touchy-feely community bollocks they're spouting at the moment isn't worth a bean if there's no transparency. I can get over the forced patches because that's the only way most of humanity is ever going to stay up to date... but please let those of us that have to support others get the information we need. Luckily, I worked out the ipconfig /renew fix almost straight away, but i imagine there are many people phoning their ISP's, getting nowhere - or worse, taking their machines to shops to be charged good money for no reason.

    If I could wave a wand, I might even consider putting the old Microsoft back in place.. it was at least able to tell us what it was patching, even if it was a year or more overdue.

  22. JJKing Silver badge
    Devil

    If you can't manage........

    I beg to differ. I've worked in quite a few places that use Windows and Macs. It just takes a bit of work and learning to integrate the two. If you can't manage that then you really, really don't belong in IT.

    A school I personally know of ran Mac Servers, iMac, MacBook, iPads and iPods. The Principal wanted to have the iPods networked in so they could use Graphic Calculator software and upgrade it instead of paying a couple of hundred dollars for a dedicated hardware device. Senior Apple people spent $100,000 in time trying to get the iPods online before throwing in the towel. Mac hardware not wanting to work with other Mac hardware…..PRICELESS. Based on your own words I guess the Apple engineers just really, really don’t belong in IT.

    It isn’t the only time that Apple gear didn’t want to play nice and the Apple engineers again threw the hands in the air in defeat.

  23. David 155

    Can I have a patch for

    when installing updates, our computers take half an hour to restart!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Can I have a patch for

      If an update re-boot takes more than a minute or two, then assuming you're not leaving updates for months at a time, I'd suggest something seems to be wrong with your PCs.

      Maybe a poor AV program interfering with the updating? 3rd party full disk encryption not working right?

  24. sikejsudjek

    There seems to be an inverse relationship between the rate microsoft try to dumb down windows 10, and the rise in IT skills needed to keep the bloody thing working....

  25. foo_bar_baz
    Windows

    I got caught by this

    Spent a lot of time trying to fix the LAN connection on my son's PC. Strangely the connection was fine using a USB WLAN dongle, so I was testing different cables, switch ports, restarting the DHCP server and tailing logs, checking for driver and firmware updates etc. until I happened to run the correct magic netsh command. Glad to know the root cause.

    For the whingers, crap happens and there's even a name for it.

  26. Mark York 3 Silver badge
    Pint

    Sucking Eggs, Zombie Users or PC's (Take Your Choice).

    For all those niggling loss of connectivity issues my users used to experience across North America, I used to remote in, turn off the NIC power management in device manager & drop a batch file on the desktop that performed:

    ipconfig /release

    ipconfig /flushdns

    netsh winsock reset

    restart the machine

    The last part was required as the result of the first command severing my RDP connection or Lync\Skype For Business session.

    A quick fix & a step closer to beer o'clock.

    1. ecofeco Silver badge

      Re: Sucking Eggs, Zombie Users or PC's (Take Your Choice).

      This again? I haven't had to run those commands since XP.

      Good job MS. Good job. /s

  27. Peter Ford

    Static IP address?

    Is it just me, or is that not the obvious workaround?

    Skip DHCP altogether and set up a static IP address for the machine - you can do that in Windows, can't you?

    The only piece of information you need to do that is the network address block - in most home routers that's likely to be 192.168.1.0/24 - and then choose any one of the mid-range numbers for the last octet to avoid conflict with the router and other dynamically-assigned addresses that might be in use.

    I have quite a few devices on my home network and for me it's helpful to know the IP addresses of some of them (I have a raspi to do my internal DNS). The mobile phones are about the only thing that use DHCP in here...

  28. pauleverett

    That sword wields just a little bit too much power, for my liking.

  29. Evil Brewer

    Commemorative Patch

    Hey, it's the 20 Year Commemorative Patch - 1996 my Win 95 PC told me: "Can't find CD-Rom Drive. Please insert Disk into CD-Rom Drive to install driver."

  30. Glenturret Single Malt

    Pejorative or what?

    What is the difference between Microsoft distributing (or some other neutral word to describe what they did) and "sneaking out" a patch? One is journalism and the other is propaganda.

    1. VulcanV5

      Re: Pejorative or what?

      "What is the difference between Microsoft distributing (or some other neutral word to describe what they did) and "sneaking out" a patch? One is journalism and the other is propaganda."

      Nope. One is the use of terminology appropriate to a particular company's ethics, established practices, and repute.

      The other is the use of terminology appropriate to a particular company's ethics, established practices, and repute.

  31. LDS Silver badge

    How could the CDP service break DHCP?

    So eager to call home it tried so soon it can't wait to get an IP address? Isn't that the service which register itself using a partially random string trying to avoid automatic neutering?

  32. VulcanV5
    Flame

    If Microsoft was to be treated as a hostile country, not a hostile company . . .

    Amazing, the way Microsoft is allowed to get away with whatever its ruling elite wish. With a financial turnover the size of a small nation's economy, there's no reason why Microsoft could not be viewed as a hostile country -- and dealt with as such. Its track record over recent years has been to:

    1) Invade millions of computers worldwide;

    2) Install software the content of which it refuses to divulge;

    3) Place telemetry on those computers so as to monitor user behaviour;

    4) Attempt by systematic fraud to replace a computer owner's OS of choice with one of its choosing (and in many thousands of instances, achieve exactly that objective);

    5) Repeatedly disrupt the operation of a user's computer with secret unsought modifications;

    6) Consistently lie about its practices.

    This latest example is one of the most telling, because no legitimate reason exists for Microsoft to be messing around with a computer user's internet connectivity. Illegitimate reasons, however, abound. . .

    Invasive. Secretive. Disruptive. And dedicated to covert surveillance . . . If Microsoft were to be treated as a hostile country rather than the hostile company it now so clearly is, there'd be plenty of talk on both sides of the Atlantic about how best to deal with it: disrupting its international trade; freezing its assets; putting its leadership on travel black-lists, etc etc.

    Looking at today's mainstream meeja headlines though, all I see is yet more tut-tutting about that awful Mr Putin, that nasty Russia, and how it keeps hacking politicians' emails. I have yet to see any reportage of that malignant nation state called Microsoft, one which after hacking computers -- never mind emails -- for so long is now actually breaking 'em.

    Plenty on here have said, fuck Microsoft. Seems to me, prosecuting Microsoft would be considerably more satisfying.

  33. steve hayes
    FAIL

    A Guess

    In the text it says

    Prerequisites

    To apply this update, you must have Servicing stack update for Windows 10 Version 1607: October 27, 2016 (KB3199986) installed.

    Guessing KB3199986 is the bad boy.

  34. Pointer2null

    Magic IP

    Wonder how all those PC's and Laptops will download the patch without their network connection? lol

  35. oneguycoding

    grumble grumble fsck

    I'm forced by ineptitude on the part of my kids teachers to run Windows 10 on his laptop because they were too dim to understand how to run chrome on fedora. Trying to update his copy of windows 10 this morning, 30 minutes spent checking updates, 45 minutes after that the download is 46% finished. In another hour it will request a reboot, no doubt, and then another 30 minutes installing the updates. I upgraded fedora 24 to 25 in 10 minutes on my desktop (okay, the SSD helped that), but really, 2 hours+ just for a system update. And why do the fonts look like shit out of the box on windows? Gott it's ugly as fsck this UI.

    1. Kiwi Silver badge
      Linux

      Re: grumble grumble fsck

      but really, 2 hours+ just for a system update.

      And our mystery shilldownvoter, no doubt, would not dare to try and justify why 2hr+ updates (try a fresh 7 install - more than 2 days to update and MS Shills think that's OK!)

      And why do the fonts look like shit out of the box on windows? Gott it's ugly as fsck this UI.

      Now now.. Don't you know it's the epitome of professionalism and any think else is "amateurish by comparison"?

      Yeah, I thought Win10 looked crap as well. It is an improvement.. on 8.. But even compared to 98 it's pretty rubbish.

  36. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

    What is it with all "oh, Linux is sooo difficult" voices here?

    You can't possibly have tried a version the last 5-10 years.

    Just effing try it!!!

  37. SidF

    In my experience with one machine, the wireless and ethernet adapters couldn't get an IP address from the router. I used the netsh script to fix the problem. How does a Microsoft update fix the problem if you can't connect to the update servers? A user with a single machine seems to have a serious problem here.

  38. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    And what about...

    W7 and W8 losing their way and deciding, out of the blue, that the network they have been talking to since they woke up, is now an "Unknown" network, and because of that it's "Public" and no you can't access the Internet because suddenly everything is unsafe because Windoze has gone all paranoid on you. Usually there would be a link under the park bench icon in the "Network and Sharing Center" to switch it back, but the depth of the O/S's paranoia has that option disabled. WTF!

    When the user has to go in and change the MAC address of the NIC to get Windoze to re-recognize a network, one that it has been using for AGES, well... that's just crazy!

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