back to article Botched Microsoft update knocks Windows 8, 10 PCs offline – regardless of ISP

A broken software update for Windows 8 and 10 is knackering internet connectivity for users of several ISPs in the UK, Europe and quite likely beyond. Virgin Media in Blighty is the latest provider to confirm the dodgy code is knocking a number of its customers offline. Proximus in Belgium also says a Windows 10 update is …

  1. RogerT

    Is this a UK only problem?

    I'll happily admit that I live in a Microsoft free zone so this doesn't affect me but one thing interests me. Is this a UK only problem or are other countries affected as well?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Is this a UK only problem?

      If it *is* a UK-only problem, then I would hope all the Bad Guys (TM) in the world are off this week.

      Because the implications would be there is a buried SPoF within the UKs telecoms infrastructure just waiting to be deliberately (and obscurely) exploited.

      Forget blowing up buses - if you really want to bring the UK down, stop people shopping online from 18th December.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Is this a UK only problem?

        I'm interested in this too as I haven't seen or heard anything going on over here in the USA.

        1. gerdesj Silver badge
          Childcatcher

          Re: Is this a UK only problem?

          Pure speculation on my part but Windows updates do not happen all at once across the world, so it is possible that this may happen later for others.

          It would be nice if someone would get Wireshark and the logs out and do some bloody diagnostics to find out where the problem really lies. It's not rocket science - you can't see network traffic.

          1. Adam JC

            Re: Is this a UK only problem?

            Wireshark shows no DHCP requests from the PC's in question, the offer is there but no ACK.

        2. StuartMil

          Re: Is this a UK only problem?

          Seeing the same symptoms on Time Warner in OH and the same helldesk advice of "turn it off an on again". Seems to work for them.

        3. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Is this a UK only problem?

          We have the same issue internally in BoA throughout all of the USA.

    2. tmax

      Re: Is this a UK only problem?

      Same at Proximus Belgium: https://www.proximus.be/support/en/id_zwpr_support/personal/support.html

      1. m0rt Silver badge

        Re: Is this a UK only problem?

        My Neighbour had this last week. My older desktop, connected to the superhub with an ethernet cable. Wouldn't get through to the internet either with Wifi or ethernet, yet my phone could connect to the router and work. I couldn't work out what the hell was going on, it just would *not* connect to the internet. In the end I clicked on the reset network connections option in the network settings tile abomination.* That sorted it.

        *I don't know windows 10 very well, I tend to avoid Windows these days. So I did just worked through the thing logically and hit upon that as working.

        1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
          Devil

          Re: Is this a UK only problem?

          Pure speculation on my part but Windows updates do not happen all at once across the world, so it is possible that this may happen later for others.

          "later for others"

          There is a Microsoft theme song in there.

          1. Dazed and Confused Silver badge
            Trollface

            Re:There is a Microsoft theme song in there.

            It goes

            Share and enjoy...

            1. ecadre

              Re: Re:There is a Microsoft theme song in there.

              ... unshare and despair

            2. Colin Ritchie
              Windows

              Re: Re:There is a Microsoft theme song in there.

              https://youtu.be/fjXswmoZ2HQ

        2. Wayland Bronze badge
          Pint

          Re: Is this a UK only problem?

          I would have solved it that way but fortunately I read the Reg article and simply entered the two commands which brought the DHCP addresses back. I owe the Reg a pint.

    3. Willyn

      Re: Is this a UK only problem?

      I am using Windows 7 on satellite in Spain and for sometime now my internet drops out and I have not been able to find any cause on my computer.

      1. kkanalz

        Re: Is this a UK only problem?

        If your satellite Internet provider is Hughes Net, then I can almost GUARANTEE that the problem is with HughesNet! I wrestled with those guys for three years before I was able to find a local alternative that was NOT satellite based.

    4. Rob Daglish

      Re: Is this a UK only problem?

      Did you miss the bit in the article that says:

      " Proximus in Belgium also says a Windows 10 update is breaking network access" ?

      Admittedly, it was only one line...

    5. Linker3000

      Re: Is this a UK only problem?

      Dunno, but since I just lost Internet connectivity trying to check an email before I flew out of the house, I did a quick check of the network settings and the first entry in my DNS list was an IPV6 address and since my router does not have IPV6 turned on, I tried disabling the IPV6 protocol on my wifi adaptor and I was back online with only the expected two IPV4 DNS addresses showing.

      Maybe something's not timing out as it should??

      Just a thought - gotta dash....!

  2. Dwarf Silver badge
    Joke

    Before anyone else says it

    It's because of Brexit ....

    1. StaudN
      Devil

      Re: Before anyone else says it

      How about because of the IP bill?.....

      1. phuzz Silver badge
        Gimp

        Re: Before anyone else says it

        If your computer is unable to get an IP address, then the government can't snoop on it, this is actually Microsoft's way of saving us from the Snooper's Charter.

    2. MNGrrrl

      Re: Before anyone else says it

      > It's because of Brexit ....

      Admittedly I haven't followed brexit beyond what the BBC has reported on it, but I was under the impression the UK wanted to divorce itself from the European Union, not the entire human race. Not that I would blame them, we are a sorry lot right now. I'm pretty sure miserable Britain wants to suffer like the rest of us with its modern conveniences. Though there is a degree of dramatic irony in being so accustomed to having to "Turn it off and back on again" to fix a problem that we're now trying that with entire countries....

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Before anyone else says it

        Brexit is to the BBC what welfare cheats are to the Daily Mail

    3. The Man Who Fell To Earth Silver badge
      Devil

      Re: Before anyone else says it

      No, in the US, its Bush's fault if you are a Democrat, and it's Obama's fault if you are a Republican.

      And it's Comey & the Russians fault if you worked on Hillary's campaign.

  3. Alister Silver badge

    Unwise...

    The Register has contacted Microsoft for an update.

    I don't think that's a good idea, the last thing you want is another Microsoft Update...

    :)

    1. Doc Ock
      Thumb Up

      Re: Unwise...

      >I don't think that's a good idea, the last thing you want is another Microsoft Update...

      Haha

      Wins comment of the week and it's only Monday.

      1. VinceH Silver badge
        Thumb Up

        Re: Unwise...

        Only of the week?

        I did a proper LOL. A proper one, with the out loud bit.

  4. Walter Bishop Silver badge
    Linux

    Caused by power management setting on network adapter

    Fast Startup Mode isn't correctly reseting the network adapters on resume?

    Information about power management setting on a network adapter

    1. dkjd

      Re: Caused by power management setting on network adapter

      No, that does not fix it

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Plusnet are a bit pushed right now

    Work college needed to sort a service upgrade/move issue and just could not get past the first "Home or Business prompt" for hours.

    Still think it is IPv6 related, but we are not meant to question that, it's the modern way don't you know, old school "leave my f'ing LAN addresses alone" attitude is so last decade!

    ---

    OK reading the comment above I could be wrong but won't retract this as I hate those "deleted by author gaps"

    1. AndrueC Silver badge
      Facepalm

      Re: Plusnet are a bit pushed right now

      Still think it is IPv6 related

      Can't be otherwise Plusnet customers would be immune due to it's inability/lack of interest in rolling it out.

      1. Dazed and Confused Silver badge

        Re: Plusnet are a bit pushed right now

        > Still think it is IPv6 related

        Hardly, It's been taking out my wife's W10 PC most of last week and that is getting it's DHCP from my CentOS server. The server is sending DHCP responses and they aren't being acted upon. I'm only handing out IPv4 addresses.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Plusnet are a bit pushed right now

          Exactly - If the MS update (rein)forces v6 as the priority protocol and deprecates v4 do you not see how that could be a problem where v6 is not supported or served?

          That's what I obviously failed to get across, not having a v6 route or address may stop the thing working if that is what it expects to use. If I leave the default configuration on 7 or later I will often see delays as it tries to get/use v6 addresses for resources before falling back to v4.

          I just disable v6 until there is a pressing reason to do otherwise, when I cannot disable v6 it better be fully supported on the route.

        2. Wayland Bronze badge

          Re: Plusnet are a bit pushed right now

          IPv6 may have replaced IPv4 already. Except my router only serves IPv4.

    2. This post has been deleted by its author

  6. MNGrrrl
    Facepalm

    Only Britain? Short answer: No.

    Guys, El Reg is located in Britain*, as is most of their readership. However, the hardware that this is affecting is everywhere. It's happening in Brazil, the United States...in lots of places. And it's a supreme irony that Windows 10 requires you to be online to use it and yet once again here we are watching it furiously stomping on its own dick. I have lost count at how many problems Microsoft's new-found love for 'agile' has spawned. If computers were people we'd have convened at the Hauge by now and put Microsoft on trial for genocide.

    What other branch of engineering allows so many to believe "Build Now, Plan Later" is a recipe for anything but disaster? Not that it's just Microsoft. My entire industry is just one glorious failure after another, set to hip commercials showing off the 'cutting edge' of technology. The new iThing 9000: Dance madly with us on the lip of the volcano! And everytime someone falls into the molten glory hole of terrible engineering practices, we just accept this, like it's normal or something.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Only Britain? Short answer: No.

      Most of the post is great, but:

      And it's a supreme irony that Windows 10 requires you to be online to use it

      No it doesn't. Can we stop this rubbish please.

      1. MNGrrrl

        Re: Only Britain? Short answer: No.

        > No it doesn't. Can we stop this rubbish please.

        Yeah, no idea where people get this idea from... Let's just google "Windows 10 requirements"

        Info box at the top of the page, above the results: "A Microsoft account and Internet access."

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Only Britain? Short answer: No.

          Would that be the box thats from a 3rd party site, about the windows Technical Preview, about upgrades written "MARCH 18, 2015 6:50 AM"

          Install from ISO

          Activate.

          Choose Phone option,

          Done.

          1. Brewster's Angle Grinder Silver badge
            Trollface

            Re: Only Britain? Short answer: No.

            > Would that be the box thats from a 3rd party site, about the windows Technical Preview, about upgrades written "MARCH 18, 2015 6:50 AM"

            So we don't need fake news. Out of date information is sufficient to flaw El Reg's readers Microsoft haters.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Only Britain? Short answer: No.

              @Brewster's Angle Grinder

              'Out of date information is sufficient to flaw El Reg's readers Microsoft haters.'

              I'm not an MS hater, but have become more and more frustrated/pissed-off/angry with what MS have done to what was generally a very good operating system. Instead of giving us a consistent and logical upgrade to Windows 7, they forced an ugly and non-intuitive UI on us with Windows 8. Then after an almost universal 'WTF?' from users, they gave us 8.1 which still didn't fix the fundamental UI issues. Then they went all 'as-a-service' with 10, forced almost everyone to upgrade to 10 whether they wanted to or not, gave us a still broken UI with forced updates we have no control over, rampant telemetry which is almost impossible to suppress, common networking issues (seriously, how do you break the implementation of a standard network protocol which has been used by all previous versions of the same OS for almost 20 years?) as well as other shit.

              MS could have avoided all this quite easily by giving users what they actually needed in the OS, rather than forcing illogical and unnecessary changes on them for no good reason. Unfortunately, for the majority of those same users there is no alternative available to them because they are not technically minded and have only ever used Windows, so they will just suck it up and muddle through regardless even if they now detest using Windows.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: Only Britain? Short answer: No.

                >MS could have avoided all this quite easily by giving users what they actually needed in the OS, >rather than forcing illogical and unnecessary changes on them for no good reason. Unfortunately, for >the majority of those same users there is no alternative available to them because they are not >technically minded and have only ever used Windows, so they will just suck it up and muddle >through regardless even if they now detest using Windows.

                I thought most of that lot had splashed out on Macs, or given up on desktop computing altogether

              2. Wayland Bronze badge

                Re: Only Britain? Short answer: No.

                Microsoft is a landlord who simply wants you to move out. I was able to take most of my stuff with me but I had to leave behind my beloved MS Access. Moving away from MS is the end of an era and although I am a little sad I have made a lovely new home in Mint Linux. I am encouraging my Windows customers to come to Linux too.

            2. Kiwi Silver badge
              Linux

              Re: Only Britain? Short answer: No.

              > Would that be the box thats from a 3rd party site, about the windows Technical Preview, about upgrades written "MARCH 18, 2015 6:50 AM"

              So we don't need fake news. Out of date information is sufficient to flaw El Reg's readers Microsoft haters.

              Oh really?

              https://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msnz/en_NZ/pdp/Windows-10-Home/productID.320414600

              Requirements

              Required Processor : 1 GHz processor or faster

              Required Memory : 1 GB RAM for 32-bit; 2 GB for 64-bit

              [..]

              Required connectivity : Internet access (fees may apply)

              5th item down on the list. As appears when visiting microsoft.com from NZ, then looking at the "learn more about windows 10" link (under the left hand pic in the second row of ads), then to "Shop now" (way down under a massive wankfest of "how great this shitpile is", then a second "shop now" button (coz, like, we're MS and we're to fucked in the head to realise you've already chosen to go to our shop and don't really need to chose to go there again), then Windows 10, then Windows 10 home, then "requirements" (I have adblock+ and NoScript in Firefox on Mint 17.1. APB was untouched, but I turned on "temporarily allow ms.com, msstore.com and digitalriver", left a lot of other scripts (like a hell of a lot of 3rd party scripts - MS to stupid to even write their own website and have to rely very heavily on others?) off)

              Looks like current information, nothing outdated about it. If it is outdated, then MS needs to fix their shop page. They also got the price wrong - "NZ$199.00" - should be "you'd be an idiot to pay even 1cent for this when so much better, non-slurping OS's are available completely free"

              El Reg, can we have a flying pig icon, text something like "the OP is telling porkies" (or "the OP works for MS or somesuch will do).

              (Gotta remember to use more rat poison when feeding these MS trolls...)

              1. Sparkypatrick

                Re: Only Britain? Short answer: No.

                That's to purchase a download only version. I'm not sure how you imagine you would be able to achieve that without internet access.

                Windows 10 will function perfectly well without an internet connection - albeit with very limited utility, in this day and age. And by 'perfectly well', I mean with a dog's dinner of a Start menu.

                1. Kiwi Silver badge

                  Re: Only Britain? Short answer: No.

                  That's to purchase a download only version. I'm not sure how you imagine you would be able to achieve that without internet access.

                  Really?

                  So why, then, on https://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/Windows-10-Home/productID.319937100, with the USB flash drive option checked, does it still state you need an internet connection to run Win10?

                  You don't normally download USB drives. At least, I haven't yet found any method to download them.

                  And why would you need 20g of HDD space to "purchase a download only version"? I know MS stuff is a waste of space but surely even they don't require 20G to dl a <4g file?

                  How about the "1 GHz processor or faster", or the "1 GB RAM for 32-bit; 2 GB for 64-bit"? Is there something about downloading from MS that uses a lot of more CPU cycles than normal? (AV going into overload or something?). And how does downloading a 64bit file require twice the ram of downloading a 32bit file? What about downloading txt files? Do they only require a few KB of ram? What if I was do download a 4K 3D video file to copy to USB and play on my TV, would I need 20G of ram? How does that work?

                  And how about the "DirectX® 9 graphics processor with WDDM driver" - How do you need something like that to "purchase a download only version"? Or the "Microsoft account required for some features. Watching DVDs requires separate playback software"? Surely purchasing a USB stick with software on it does not somehow require separate software to view DVD's (aside from whatever else you have on your system).

                  MS's own website says you need an internet connection to run 10 purchased on a USB stick. Forgive me for taking MS at their word1 about minimum specs as published on their website. If the specs are wrong, MS needs to correct their website.

                  1 No, I wouldn't ever take them at their word... I'm quite sane, my mother had me tested.

        2. Diodelogic

          Re: Only Britain? Short answer: No.

          MSGrrrrl: I saw this when I Googled it: "It's thus worth adding that the Windows 10 technical preview has these requirements". The articles below this say that the Windows Acccount and Internet Connection were not required in the release version of Windows 10.

          Slight confusion, perhaps not really Microsoft's fault, but the user's for not reading the first article properly or completely.

        3. This post has been deleted by its author

        4. KRC

          Re: Only Britain? Short answer: No.

          > Info box at the top of the page, above the results: "A Microsoft account and Internet access."

          Which comes from a 3rd party site referring to a technical preview. This is where you should be looking: https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/windows-10-specifications

          And the only reference to Internet access is this;

          "An internet connection is required to perform the upgrade. Windows 10 is a large file – about 3 GB – and Internet access (ISP) fees might apply."

          1. Danny 14 Silver badge

            Re: Only Britain? Short answer: No.

            Thats funny. Our W10 LTSB digital signs arent even on the network and they seem to cope just fine.

            Pedantic yes. We havent been hit by this bug on or network pcs but we do use 2k12r2 dhcp servers so perhaps they didnt bork their own DHCP. We use fast boot too. Our normal users cant change any network settings.

        5. david 12 Bronze badge

          Re: Only Britain? Short answer: No.

          "A Microsoft account and internet access" are required by Win10 in order for you to use your Microsoft cloud account from Win10. Since I don't do that, I don't require a Microsoft account, and unless I want to use the internet, I don't require internet access.

          It's alright though, that was intended for people who don't know what they are doing.

        6. Mark 110 Silver badge

          Re: Only Britain? Short answer: No.

          "Info box at the top of the page, above the results: "A Microsoft account and Internet access.""

          In my experience that's to install it, rather than use it. My laptop works fine offline.

      2. hplasm Silver badge
        Windows

        Re: Only Britain? Short answer: No.

        "Can we stop this rubbish please."

        What, Windows? Fat chance.

    2. Pen-y-gors Silver badge

      Re: Only Britain? Short answer: No.

      What other branch of engineering allows so many to believe "Build Now, Plan Later" is a recipe for anything but disaster?

      Dunno about engineering, but wasn't "Act now, plan later" the theme of the-exit-that-must-not-be-named.

    3. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
      Trollface

      Re: Only Britain? Short answer: No.

      I have lost count at how many problems Microsoft's new-found love for 'agile' has spawned.

      I don't see where agile comes in all of a sudden.

      It's a standard Microsoft update.

      Only now it comes without docummentation in the middle of the night and borks you off the Internet so as the plan was to make you dependable on an Internet connection, there is some sort of weird reality collision (MEGASHRUG) and as a civilian you are a bit screwed, right.

      Anyway it was probably Putin all along, out to undermine democracy. You know it's true!

    4. Fatman Silver badge
      Joke

      Re: furiously stomping on its own dick

      <quote>And it's a supreme irony that Windows 10 requires you to be online to use it and yet once again here we are watching it furiously stomping on its own cut off its dick. I have lost count at how many problems Microsoft's new-found love for 'agile' has spawned.</quote>

      There, FTFY!!!

      <quote>If computers were people we'd have convened at the Hauge by now and put Microsoft on trial for genocide.</quote> BUT, if that were to pass, who would face the firing squad??? Bill G? Ballmer? SatNad?

    5. Myvekk

      Re: Only Britain? Short answer: No.

      [quote]

      What other branch of engineering allows so many to believe "Build Now, Plan Later" is a recipe for anything but disaster?

      [/quote]

      Looked at the vehicle and roads industry lately? Initially it was built ad hoc, & later planned but added to the original layout. Just look at how the London streets run!

      Operating systems have grown in the same way. Built up layer upon layer & still having issues from the original design flaws. Same reason for the Y2k panic... "This code will be completely replaced by then!" Nope, just patched & built upon. Windows is not different, nor is Unix, iOS or Linux (which, I believe are respectively, based on it* & designed to be a free 100% compatible alternative to it).

      Then you get strange interactions between your new bit of code and something written 10 years ago, that no one remembers even existed...

      *I could be wrong, I often am. But you have to go with what you know & just note & question your assumptions as you do...

    6. Wayland Bronze badge
      Mushroom

      Re: Only Britain? Short answer: No.

      Genuine LOL. GLOL?

      "The new iThing 9000: Dance madly with us on the lip of the volcano! And everytime someone falls into the molten glory hole of terrible engineering practices, we just accept this, like it's normal or something."

      Volcano icon.

  7. Filippo

    quick fix

    It's not a UK-only problem.

    I've found that the easiest way to fix this over the phone is to hold SHIFT while doing a system shutdown. This will force a non-fast boot, which clears the issue. Not sure if the fix is permanent, though.

    1. Kiwi Silver badge
      Linux

      Re: quick fix

      Not sure if the fix is permanent, though.

      For a quicker, and much more permanent solution to your Windows networking/stability/security/privacy woes, see icon :)

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: quick fix

        Agree all those woes will be fixed, but I still won't have any decent quality software to use!!

  8. Jim Willsher

    Pretty sure it has absolutely nothing to do with ISP whatsoever. My users on remote sites get their IP (or not, as the case may be!!) from our SBS2011 or 2012R2 boxes. None of our users at any of our sites get their IP from the router. So I don't see how it can relate to the router, and therefore the ISP. I think it's purely client-side (since our servers haven't been updated/bounced for a while).

    And the problem first reared on one laptop on 7th November. Nothing would get it to connect, whilst the rest of the office was happily working. Got said laptop sent to different office and it connected fine.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      funny enough we've been having random DHCP issues with *some* win10 boxes for a while. All are win10 dell OptiPlex 7040AIO or 7040 micros (both have the same Intel NIC chipset) win7 works fine. Symptoms are random but users lose there connection and when you check the machine has picked a 169.x.x.x address up, normally a ipconfig /release renew fixes it or a reboot but not always. This can happen even when the PC is well within its DHCP lease time so shouldn't even be trying to renew its IP.

      1. GrumpyKiwi Silver badge

        Pretty sure that DHCP is supposed to check in with the server when the lease is 50% complete and renew. So don't trust the Server Leaser Time setting for that.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          that is true, but some of our win10 boxes have been losing their IP after as little as 1 or 2 days of an 8 day lease

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        " users lose there connection and when you check the machine has picked a 169.x.x.x address up,"

        That's an APIPA address - it's the IP range microsoft PCs give themselves if they detect a network connection, but don't get a response to a DHCP request. It was designed to allow home networks of PCs to have LAN parties back in the late 90's to get all PCs on the LAN to have a working IP address so they could connect to each others PC and play network connected games together.

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Not just UK

    I work for a US ISP and can confirm we've been having this issues since last Tuesday. We've got internal alerts up for all agents who can read and every team mangler talking to their people about it.

    For us, a plain restart appears to be fixing the issue.

    1. Ben Tasker Silver badge

      Re: Not just UK

      > We've got internal alerts up for all agents who can read

      What do you get the illiterate agents to do?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Not just UK

        "What do you get the illiterate agents to do?"

        they all work for Talk Talk, explaining data breaches

      2. Curtis

        Re: Not just UK

        I believe they're functioning by someone telling them what to do behind them. (Mobile posting is hard, and I checked the anon box by mistake)

        Among the senior techs, we're not sure some of our "front line" [i]can[/i] read, at least american english.

  10. Pen-y-gors Silver badge
    Happy

    Oh goody

    I knew there was another reason for paying a fiver a month for a static IP.

    1. AndrueC Silver badge
      Boffin

      Re: Oh goody

      I knew there was another reason for paying a fiver a month for a static IP.

      That would be a WAN IP address. This issue appears to relate to DHCP which manages LAN IP addresses.

      In more detailed terms: The issue seems to relate to the way people's routers are handing out addresses to Windows 10 machines on their LAN (or the way those machines respond to that advisement). Your static IP address relates to the way the world communicates with your router over the public internet.

      1. Danny 14 Silver badge

        Re: Oh goody

        Unless he meant using the fixed ip for his PC (part of a /29?)i.e. no NAT. Shudder.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Oh goody

        To be fair, there's nothing to stop you putting your ISP router in modem mode, and using a public IP address on your PC. Bit of a strange thing to do, unless you for some reason want to use your PC as a firewall/router, but it can certainly be done.

        1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge

          Re: Oh goody

          Unless the ISP has some weird point-to-point protocol that you just cannot run on your box without reverse-engineering it first out of the modem firmware. (SHUDDER)

      3. Dazed and Confused Silver badge

        Re: Oh goody

        Well he could be using his fixed IP address directly on his PC. I do one some of mine.

        The issue isn't to do with the router except is as much that most people use their router as their DHCP server. But regardless of what you are using as a DHCP server W10 was knaggered it. The DHCP server is happily responding to requests and offering configs and it looks like W10 is just ignoring these responses.

  11. Frank Zuiderduin

    What is going on exactly?

    Are the DHCP servers messed up? Or the clients? Somehow the latter seems more likely, in which case it doesn't have anything to do with the ISP.

    1. Brewster's Angle Grinder Silver badge

      Re: What is going on exactly?

      The ISPs generally issue the router. So if some routers contain a non-conforming server, it could be the ISP's problem.

      That said, it looks like Microsoft have screwed up. But even if Redmond are in the right, they'll have to implement the fix.

    2. DMcDonnell

      Re: What is going on exactly?

      It appears to be the DHCP client in Win 10.

      Customers with Win 10 and DHCP, as apposed to customers who use manual configuration, have been a headache. It's the ISPs and retailers who are left to pick up the pieces 'cause of Redmond's screw-up. Don't we just love he new update mechanism in Win 10? SPIT, SPUTTER, CURSE! No way in hell!

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The fix is

    Enable IPX and browse the Microsoft Network (TM) (c) 1995, so much better than the Internet.

    1. Danny 14 Silver badge

      Re: The fix is

      Perhaps the genius 2000 cards have drivers that work too. Try getting a fresh pair of terminators from the terminator robot too.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: The fix is

      Damn. Should have kept the ARCnet cards & cables. And a modem :).

    3. davidp231

      Re: The fix is

      Nah, NetBEUI all the way.

    4. martin 62

      Re: The fix is

      To set your connection as metered and say bye bye to broken updates (at the cost of security i admit)

  13. nkuk

    The ever increasing cost of Free

    How long before people realise that the cost of free Windows isn't worth it. End users are now unpaid QA testers and this is only the latest in an ongoing string of borked updates.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: The ever increasing cost of Free

      'How long before people realise that the cost of free Windows isn't worth it?'

      Seeing as most people weren't given an option, probably about 2 minutes after Windows 10 installed itself and rebooted!

  14. Boris the Cockroach Silver badge
    Windows

    I knew

    there was a very good reason not to 'upgrade' to win10 from win7 while it was free

    However, how does the borked update affect someone who runs his virgin(spit) modem in cable mode and uses his own belkin router to connect the computers/printers/backup hard drive to each and the internet?

    1. Wayland Bronze badge

      Re: I knew

      It's a DHCP issue with Windows 8 and 10. It seems that no DHCP servers can solve the problem. It must be solved in the PC.

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Seen this, lots...

    ....Started seeing it last week as well, although in the first instance there had just been a lot of work done at the customer end, so it wasn't obvious what the problem was. Looked like a CPE issue for some time. Seen this across all sorts of different devices handing out DHCP leases.

  16. Nifty

    Nothing new?

    Especially when coming out of sleep, I've been seeing both my W10 machines lose internet connectivity. Solution has been to perform the LAN adapter reset. But I've been seeing this issue for months.

    1. Adam JC

      Re: Nothing new?

      Try disabling power management on the network adaptor, should keep it alive in sleep:

      Control Panel > Network & Sharing Centre > Local Area Connection > Properties

      'Power Management' Tab - Untick 'Allow the computer to turn off this device to save power', usually does the trick :-)

      (Sorry if I'm teaching you to suck eggs!)

  17. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    loss of business

    so - if an MS update breaks your PC and those of your employees, so they can't work but you have to pay them anyway, how do you recover that cost from MS? If they're using innocent bystanders as beta testers (which they must be, anything that borks things this much would surely not pass a decent ISO-compliant software test/QA/release process), then they should be paying businesses for taking that risk ....

    1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: loss of business

      "If they're using innocent bystanders as beta testers"

      Dunno about beta. This sounds more like alpha.

    2. Dazed and Confused Silver badge

      Re: loss of business

      You agreed to the EULA which says that you owe MS everything and they owe you nothing. If you want compensation you'd have to convince a court that the EULA wasn't a reasonable contract (it isn't) and that you basically agreed to it under duress (you don't have any choice). Then you might be able to go after the compensation you (and all the rest of us) rightly deserve. However MS will spend more of legal fees than you, so they'll win.

      1. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

        Re: loss of business

        "Then you might be able to go after the compensation you (and all the rest of us) rightly deserve. However MS will spend more of legal fees than you, so they'll win."

        Government's should do this, and I'm sure they can take on MS.

        EU seems keen on doing this sort of thing.

        1. Dazed and Confused Silver badge

          Re: loss of business

          Government's should do this, and I'm sure they can take on MS.

          EU seems keen on doing this sort of thing.

          Sadly they don't seem keen on wiping the whole EULA thing off the face of the planet. I really wish they would as no one else it likely to manage. Of course if the judge's PC were to bork part way through the trial it might help. If they felt the pain the rest of us do they might well reach of the black cap.

          1. Kiwi Silver badge

            Re: loss of business

            Of course if the judge's PC were to bork part way through the trial it might help.

            One of those forced reboots while the judge is busy writing the summing-up notes, with no chance to save (and auto-save files somehow wiped), and a 40min+40min shutdown and restart for "installing updates" should pretty much seal it I think.

            (Disclaimer : Never inflicted myself with the horror that is 10, so no idea how much actual warning you're given)

    3. Wayland Bronze badge
      Linux

      Re: loss of business

      Should people who don't know how to re-initialize the network adapter driver really be using computers? That's like expecting someone to drive a car who can't change a wheel.

  18. Planty Bronze badge
    Thumb Up

    Thank you Windows 10 freemium beta testers

    your free beta testing offer is ensuring nobody else suffers from these windows 10 coding error.s

  19. Doc Ock

    Force fed updates still a good idea Microsoft ?

    How many more cock-ups will it take before you get the message.

    1. VinceH Silver badge

      But surely, Windows updates that b0rk things are much like data breaches, in that they only affect a small number of (ahem) 'customers'.

      But, yeah, well done Microsoft. Nice one.

    2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      "Force fed updates still a good idea Microsoft ?"

      It's going splendidly. All the bugs get shaken out before the big money Enterprise customers get the update. That was pretty clear from the outset. It's a bit rough on the professional users because Professional ought to be professional.

  20. maartent

    I probably had the same problem with my in-house Wi-Fi connection.

    The new laptop of my wife (Win10) list the connection possibly after the DHCP lease expired and it was not renewed. We found that rebooting the Wi-Fi router solved the problem temporary.

    1. JohnnyReb

      it can't - the problem was never in the WiFi router. To fix this issue a reboot was required to restart the DHCP service

  21. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    And so it begins... MS / Windows-10 auto-update borking...

    "He said the issue is definitely a DHCP problem caused by a broken Windows Update, "although we’ve not been able to identify the cause, it’s an extremely quick fix."

    He added: "It’s caused a great deal of disruption for our business customers as it required a site visit for those we couldn’t talk through it on the phone."

    The cause of the bug is so far unclear, although Plusnet has blamed an unspecified “third-party update”. The main issue appears to be a recent Windows Update release – but it is hard to tell which one is at fault because Redmond is so secretive about exactly what's inside each upgrade bundle.

    The Register has repeatedly asked Microsoft for an explanation. The software giant has remained silent. "

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: And so it begins... MS / Windows-10 auto-update borking...

      "Only Dr. Hans Zarkov, formerly of NASA, provided an explanation"

      1. GrumpyKiwi Silver badge

        Re: And so it begins... MS / Windows-10 auto-update borking...

        Did he blame it on Adobe Flash?

        1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

          Re: And so it begins... MS / Windows-10 auto-update borking...

          "Did he blame it on Adobe Flash?"

          GORDONS....no wait. Kill Flash. Send war rocket Ajax! Nuke it from orbit to be sure.

          1. davidp231
            Coat

            Re: And so it begins... MS / Windows-10 auto-update borking...

            Heh... "War Rocket Francis".

    2. Adam JC

      Re: And so it begins... MS / Windows-10 auto-update borking...

      Indeed the specific update seems to have evaded my investigation. All fingers seem to point to KB3201845 at the moment but just to add to confusion, I've seen machines *without* this update still present the problem!

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: And so it begins... MS / Windows-10 auto-update borking...

        Looking at several posts here, it appears that the problem has been around intermittently, and/or only affecting certain hardware, prior to the update. I'd guess there's been a DHCP Heisenbug for a while and Microsoft just issued an update that was supposed to fix the problem but has in fact made it worse. Which is about par for the course.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: And so it begins... MS / Windows-10 auto-update borking...

          yep we've had this issue since around aug\sep time. Started with just 1 user who was getting the issue maybe once or twice a week. We are mainly a win7 shop maybe around 220 boxes, so not that many win10, maybe around 40 or so now. Last week we had the issue on 6 win10 boxes

  22. Duffaboy
    FAIL

    I laugh at this

    Windows 10 has been designed to make most It professionals un-employed, can you see your average joe user who can't be arsed to fix it them selves applying the suggest fix ?

  23. Thesheriff

    Re: And so it begins... MS / Windows-10 auto-update borking...

    I can confirm that this has happened in the U.S. I had 2 systems that were affected this past weekend. My work around at the time was to rename the systems and everything connected without issue after.

  24. intrepid intellect

    Win10 FUpdate Net Knockeroff Workaround

    a SystemMechanicPro NetBoost operation seems to solve problem on my laptop...

  25. Mevi

    I thought it was my powerline plugs

    I've been looking at my powerline adapters as the cause of this for weeks. A repower of either end was getting me back on the network. Not happened for days, so I'll try the netsh commands next time.

  26. x 7

    Has anyone checked which wireless chipsets are involved? I've only seen the problem with Broadcom wireless chips, and updating the drivers seems to have a beneficial effect. I suspect an issue with the default drivers installed by Windows / Windows update

  27. Unbelievable!

    You're all wrong

    The gov agencies want to know/record who (which internal IP) was logged on, lan side, at all times. Which was why win 10 was pushed harder and faster. Time was against them to do it properly. The shell /interface were done first with the providence that "updates" would continue to open up. M$ screwed up windows update deployment this time. I mean again.I am astrounded nobody actually came up with that conclusion yet.

    I'm going on break. will leave you lot to it.

    1. Wayland Bronze badge

      Re: You're all wrong

      LAN IPs showing up on WAN packets? That's called IPv6 is it not?

  28. chaosmagnet

    We have three Win10 PCs at home on Comcast, and have yet to see this issue.

  29. david 12 Bronze badge

    DhcpConnEnableBcastFlagToggle

    Out of curiiousity, in Win 10 what is the default value for "HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\Tcpip\Parameters\Interfaces\{GUID}\DhcpConnEnableBcastFlagToggle

    (By which the client controls the way DHCP responses are made.)

  30. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Interesting

    Recently had a series of issues with the missus' laptop (a pretty shite Packard Bell, but she likes it and I can't afford to replace it any time soon) getting a 169.x.x.x IP adress at boot but not mine, nor the (wired) desktop machine, nor the (wired) clever dick central heating timer. Even went as far as uninstalling her wireless adapter driver and letting it be re-found (Worked for a bit) but (touch wood) it seems to be OK now after another brief hiccup a few days back.

  31. JeffyPoooh Silver badge
    Pint

    Not just UK. Happened here in Canada too.

    One of our desktop PCs effectively lost its wired Ethernet connection to the network, but was still Connected At 1Gbps to the router. Suspecting SW, I decided to let it Cheese Ripen (do nothing).

    Today I read this column, entered the two incantations listed in the column, and my PC was magically fixed. Reboot was slower than normal, but it's on the road to recovery.

    Thank you !!

    1. JeffyPoooh Silver badge
      Pint

      Re: Not just UK. Happened here in Canada too.

      PS. Same PC now has a Registry error so that it can't open jpg images.

      Sigh...

  32. Mikel

    It's a security update

    Windows is more secure if it can't communicate over any networks.

  33. Kiwi Silver badge
    Windows

    That explains it..

    I felt a disturbance in the force. Like millions of voices crying out in terror and being suddenly silenced..

    And if felt good. Like just so much waste was gone. So much poison removed from the universe. Wonder what it was? Oh. Windows machines going offline, making the net quieter and a little more secure...

  34. DanielR

    That's it. What a head fuck nightmare. I was trying to fix someones issue. The router is crap and provides no detailed logs. Neither does windows.

    It would fail to connect to wifi so unlikely able to get IP after authentication.

    So static ip is the way to go.

  35. DanielR

    I also tried drastic things like reinstalling the wifi client driver. Going into settings and choosing "Network reset" both fixed the problem temporarily. But then drops off again. Why would it be trying to refresh DHCP like that ?

  36. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

    "it is hard to tell which one is at fault because Redmond is so secretive about exactly what's inside each upgrade bundle"

    Isn't this just the ultimate display of MS's contempt for their own customers?

    MS needs to go down. And soon.

  37. hoola

    Kwality.....

    MS are getting progressively more useless as this update business. Massive 3 GB downloads that re-install the OS in the background and bork it. Issues like this and then bundling all updates into a single package so that you cannot even decline the one with the issue.

    And we are supposed to trust them. Unfortunately all the crys of just use Linux xxxxx are irrelevant, for a techie it is doable but Linux is starting to show just as many security issues with even greater difficulty in patching for the non-techie. For small businesses there simply is no choice but to use Windows due to all the integrations and software that is needed.

    The only thing that may wake Microsoft up that they have crap quality is if the screw over every Windows PC on the planet. The trouble is that for years faults in software have been accepted as the suppliers simply do not care or use it as a way to enforce upgrades. If cars or washing machines operated on the lines there would be major companies out of business and court actions all over the place. Software, you have a right to use it, you never own it and there is no guarantee that it does what it says it can.......

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Kwality.....

      there isn't a perfect OS. FEDORA 24 is unusable on our site, quite randomly on a large number of PC's. 23 is fine, 24 works on some but on others (exact same install on the same hardware) runs slower than dripping tarmac.

    2. Kiwi Silver badge
      Linux

      Re: Kwality.....

      And we are supposed to trust them. Unfortunately all the crys of just use Linux xxxxx are irrelevant, for a techie it is doable but Linux is starting to show just as many security issues with even greater difficulty in patching for the non-techie. For small businesses there simply is no choice but to use Windows due to all the integrations and software that is needed.

      I have several elderly non-tech people using Mint and Ubuntu. I can't say I give them support because the only calls I hear about their machines are "I didn't know computers could be this easy to use". Once the Linux install is done, the security issues are over. The worry about them following some "malware detected, scan your system now" banner add to a phishing or drive-by site is gone (ok, that's largely ad blocker but still, they are immune from drive-bys now!). No IE toolbars.

      Updates and patching? A breeze on Linux systems. They have this nice central package manager that takes seconds (not 48hrs+ in the case of Win7!) to work out what it needs, and negligible system impact while it downloads and installs said patches. Unlike with MS's crapware, when you shut the system down there's no multi-hour "please wait, installing updates" crap, and when it's next started the patches are completely installed, no second round of "you cannot use your computer for a long while, because we're busy doing God-knows-what, trashing your disk (and maybe your data), taking hours to do an update process that should've been done once, last night, before you shut it down, and should've taken moments rather than hours to do it".

      No idea where you get the "greater difficulty in patching". In all my years of Linux use (mostly Debian-based) I've just let the package manager handle that. Urgent updates come out fairly quickly after a fault is found, not on a once a month basis as with MS!.

      As to "For small businesses there simply is no choice but to use Windows due to all the integrations and software that is needed." - such as? Most small businesses need basic email and word processor/spreadsheet stuff - Thunderbird and Libre Office covers that for that vast majority of businesses. Few have any real need for databases but there's plenty of non-MS stuff out there which outperforms MS products on every front (especially price).

      Agree with the rest of your post though :)

  38. Biggered

    Thought it a bit odd yesterday when the MS website on the support area has a big purple banner saying if you cannot connect to the internet to restart not shutdown.

    So a worldwide issue and ironic that a workaround that some people will never see.

  39. Biggered

    DHCP on IPV4 seems to be the issue, IPV6 seems to be ok as I've a tablet just connected via IPV6 but DHCP address on IPV4 is 169....

  40. Sirius Lee

    Click bait

    I am in the UK, I use Virgin Media and it's not affected me. Seems a bit premature to blame a Windows 10 update by Microsoft when problem instances are so constrained. Is there not even the remotest chance that the small number of affected users have installed some other app that's caused the problem. Or it a better revenue strategy to blame Microsoft?

  41. Anonymous South African Coward Silver badge

    Luckily not affected my company yet, but if it do, then I'll know what to do.

    First, blame M$

    then issue static IP's all the while blaming M$

    and blame M$ all the more

  42. Daz555

    Windows update is permanently borked on my Windows 10 build (only a rebuild can fix it I'm told by MS support) so I guess I am lucky here?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Didn't have a problem with my Virgin Router

      Windows 10 told us it had updated itself. When we shut it down to restart it didn't, just sat there with a nice blue screen. Tried rebooting it a number of times but no luck. Reinstalled 7 from the manufacturers recovery partition, left it to do updates, and then it would take 10 minutes to run any programme because Windows update was consuming all the memory. Found some information on patches which cured that then of course, now update was working, more updates, finally after 147 more updates it seems to be working the way it used to. What a palaver, surely Microsoft have lost the plot now?

  43. PeterM42
    Facepalm

    YET ANOTHER...

    ....Untested MICROCRAP FUCKUP!!!

  44. Andy3

    Today I noticed that my 3 devices (two laptops and one tablet, all on Wifi) had 'forgotten' they had a connection. After a great deal of pressing 'manually connect' and 'display stored connection' buttons, I just pressed the auto connect button on the router and all the devices started working. I don't know if this has fixed the problem or not - no doubt I'll find out when I switch on tomorrow....

  45. Sil

    Admittedly a small sample, but no problem in France with 1 fibre isp, 1 cable 1 isp & 1 satellite ISP with about 50 Windows 10 machines.

  46. J J Carter Silver badge
    Windows

    What issue?

    No problem with Windows 10 mobile on my Lumia 950.

  47. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Dunno...

    ...if this is of any significance, but I was noseying round on my sisters computer the other day (Win 10 upgraded laptop job) and the Wi-fi had been connected for over 20 days, despite her shutting it down completely on separate occasions. I don't recall this happening on Win 7 (the previous OS). I think Win 10 doesn't power down properly. Torvalds might just save computing (as reported elsewhere on El Reg)!

  48. David Hicklin

    OS Web Stats

    So next months statistics on which OS's are connecting most to those web sites will show a sudden drop for W10 and all the experts will excitedly jump to the wrong conclusions

  49. UncleZoot

    Redmond is silent because they're stupid.

    Can't figure who's worse, Microslop or Mozilla.

    Microslop with the constant updates that cause whatever happens or Mozilla with the constant updates knocking out all of your add-ons. Both suck major scrotum.

  50. JohnnyReb
    Thumb Up

    This issue is now fixed in KB3206632

    https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4004227/windows-10-update-kb3206632

  51. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Well I run a small business on linux so it can be done. Ok Linux has a few security issues from time to time but patching is ridiculously easy. Unlike ms, I get a description of what each updates does, I can read bug reports and change logs, and decide which individual updates I run. Security updates and upgraded software are separated out. Updates run in seconds not days!

    In which universe is this supposed to be worse than the windows 10 experience ? I simply don't buy the explanation that you have to be a techie wonder to click 'install' and enter your password. You don't. Its time ms fanboys admitted that windows is becoming a nightmare to troubleshoot and maintain because of Redmond's poor design choices. No one knows what's in those patches - and no one knows how long their copy of windows 10 will keep working for before the next screw up.

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