back to article Russian hackers got Trump elected? Yeah, let's take a close look at that, says Obama

President Obama has bowed to pressure and announced a formal investigation into Russian hacking aimed at influencing the recent presidential election. White House spokesman Eric Schultz announced on Friday that the Obama administration would seek to have the report wrapped up before President-elect Donald Trump takes office in …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    We could do that too, if only

    Russia had real elections to screw with. When you have a single box to check, and no real incentive to show up, they pretty much hacked their own elections long, long ago.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: We could do that too, if only

      Let's not forget that the Candidate that was declared the winner publically invited the Russians to Hack the event.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: We could do that too, if only

        No, he invited them to find clinton's emails. In fact it wasn't even an invitation as such. What he said was “I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing.”

      2. BillG Silver badge
        IT Angle

        Re: We could do that too, if only

        Excuse me, but do WE (El Reg readers) know anything about the hack other than the DNC has email and Russia allegedly hacked them? Are their servers Microsoft or Linux? Do they use a VPN? Were the emails pulled from the server(s) en masse or were they siphoned off over a period of time?

        For IT people we have relatively little information, and it's all coming from non-technical people. Since when have El Reg readers blindly accepted anything the U.S. intelligence community has said? Do we just accept what we are being told, or do we dig a little deeper so we can do what we always enjoy doing, come to our own conclusions?

        1. Archtech Silver badge

          Re: We could do that too, if only

          https://www.lewrockwell.com/2016/12/christopher-manion/russian-hackers-behind-1000s-murders/

        2. Wzrd1

          Re: We could do that too, if only

          "Since when have El Reg readers blindly accepted anything the U.S. intelligence community has said?"

          Thus saith The Donald, who immediately shrugged off all intelligence briefings, muttering words to the effect of, "I've got mine, screw you".

        3. dhfair

          Re: We could do that too, if only

          Well said. Besides could Israel bare close scrutiny on their envolvment in our elections? If the emails were real and the information damaging I don't care who released it. Obviously the government wasn't going to.

        4. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: We could do that too, if only

          What we do know is John Podesta was using a gmail account, and his emails were stolen.

          All that took is one person who knew his password.

          In other news police are still searching for the murderer of DNC staffer Seth Rich:

          http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3724508/Parents-slain-DNC-staffer-Seth-Rich-ask-help-three-weeks-slain-DC-street.html

          1. BillG Silver badge
            Pirate

            Re: We could do that too, if only

            In other news police are still searching for the murderer of DNC staffer Seth Rich:

            http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3724508/Parents-slain-DNC-staffer-Seth-Rich-ask-help-three-weeks-slain-DC-street.html

            What's that bring the Clinton death tool up to? Is it five or six staffers killed under mysterious circumstances?

    2. macjules Silver badge

      Re: We could do that too, if only

      Nothing wrong with the Russians system of 'One Man, One Vote'. The problem is that the 'One Man' is Putin and that he only needs 'One Vote' to remain in power.

      1. Bernard M. Orwell Silver badge
        Meh

        Re: We could do that too, if only

        Yeah, Russia is so different and corrupt with their Putin, Medvedev, Putin, Medvedev cycle...

        ...so different from the US Bush, Clinton, Bush, Clinton cycle.

        1. Wzrd1

          Re: We could do that too, if only

          "...so different from the US Bush, Clinton, Bush, Clinton cycle."

          Because the President Elect is a Clinton, right?

          Oh wait, it isn't.

          Screw it, let the missiles fly.

  2. TimeMaster T
    Pint

    What would be really funny ...

    What if the investigation reveals that the there was hacking, and it was to inflate the number of votes Hillary received in an attempt to ensure she became President?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: What would be really funny ...

      Don't be silly, no investigation ordered by Obama would EVER reach that conclusion, regardless.

      1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
        Windows

        Re: What would be really funny ...

        Yeah, it's not as if there wasn't a slight suspicion that the "Russia in the water" meme being spread by completely-above-board MSM fauxlets was not a little preparation of the public mood for contesting the election should it not go to the "right" person.

        (Meanwhile the usual neocon suspects supported by Sheldon Adelson's publishing empire are out clamoring for an attack on Iranian forces soon. This is not going well. Here's hoping President Trump can shrug off Israeli and Saudi Arabian thinkfluencers and start the de-escalation with Russia.)

      2. Blank Reg

        Re: What would be really funny ...

        No Big John, no investigation would ever reach that conclusion because the Russians would much prefer an unstable idiot like Trump that can be easily manipulated.

    2. a_yank_lurker Silver badge

      Re: What would be really funny ...

      The standard assumptions by the bloviating class is the Russians are only ones capable of doing this and they wanted Trump to win. The first is laughably stupid because hacking is not a uniquely Russian skill nor would they be the only ones to try to hack into the voting systems, government agencies, political parties, or major candidate campaigns. Only they only ones blamed for these hacks which may be a more important point. I am not sure the Russians really cared who won the election or if they did they might have preferred Hildafelon over the Blowhard. US allies and Western political elites strongly preferred Hildafelon so they likely imputed their desires on Putin.

      The fact the Russians are not only ones with skills to do the alleged hack should make one cautious about assigning blame unless one accepts the real problem was imbecilic US policies that created the situation. These idioticies have been criticized as being poorly thought and very risky solution to the Palm Beach County Florida incompetence in 2000. It seems that the many of the US elite are trying to whip up an anti-Russian hysteria to keep the masses docile or possibly as an excuse to start a shooting war with Russia. I say fix the well known problems of our own causing before trying to find a bogus Causus Belli with Russia.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: What would be really funny ...

        I am not sure the Russians really cared who won the election

        I have talked to quite a few and every single one I talked was pretty much all of an opinion that Hillary == WW3. Their media, TV, etc aired similar conclusions. The basis of this opinion is that:

        1. Hillary is into the Washington hobby of regime change big time.

        2. Hillary is not Obama, she not known for her ability to ensure she puts enough resources and has a retreat path. So a blowback or clusterf*** somewhere from one of her regime change excursions is pretty much a given.

        3. An intervention in Syria and starting a shootout was considered to be pretty much a given as far as Russians are concerned as well.

        4. Similarly, going from passive sanctions to more active sanctions regime was also pretty much a given.

        Does the list of sponsors her foundation and the heavy presence of Ukrainian oligarchy on the list have something to do with - dunno. It is "food for though".

        By the way, they are not particularly keen on Trump, given a choice between the two he is definitely the preferred choice as far as they are concerned. It is however the choice between unknown and nuclear winter.

        1. a_yank_lurker Silver badge

          Re: What would be really funny ...

          From the Russian (or any other country's) view Hildafelon is known entity and Trump is largely an unknown entity. The question is whether the known is worse than the unknown. Trump has indicated that he is an outsider when it comes to the foreign policy elites so can be counted on to do some unexpected actions. Hildafelon seems to have a proclivity to sending in the Marines first without determining what the purpose is first; always a recipe for a disaster. Whether this would lead to WWIII, hard to tell but certainly a realistic possibility. However, misguided foreign adventures could work to the advantage of Putin and the Chinese no matter who the President is; though Trump does not seem as inclined towards them.

          So the net is which one did the Russians, Chinese, etc. want.

          1. ecofeco Silver badge

            Re: What would be really funny ...

            I was with you until Hildfelon, which made your post both moot and juvenile and unintelligible.

            Congratulations on your trifecta.

          2. Wzrd1

            Re: What would be really funny ...

            "Trump has indicated that he is an outsider when it comes to the foreign policy elites so can be counted on to do some unexpected actions."

            Odd, considering his utterly predictable cabinet choices, which are 'business as usual'.

            Well, save for one thing. He did mention how having nuclear weapons remain unused made no sense to him.

            Heaven help the world if he tires of Twitter and actually picks up a telephone...

            1. Cynic_999 Silver badge

              Re: What would be really funny ...

              "

              He did mention how having nuclear weapons remain unused made no sense to him.

              "

              Does he also think that having fire extinguishers and airbags remaining unused is similarly senseless?

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: What would be really funny ...

          "I have talked to quite a few and every single one I talked was pretty much all of an opinion that Hillary == WW3. Their media, TV, etc aired similar conclusions"

          are you sure you haven't go those statements in wrong order. Russian broadcasting and all that....

        3. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: What would be really funny ...

          Hillary would rathe rnap and play with her grandkiddies than start WW3.

        4. Archtech Silver badge

          Re: What would be really funny ...

          "I have talked to quite a few and every single one I talked was pretty much all of an opinion that Hillary == WW3..."

          Me too, and I'm a pure-blooded Scot who doesn't even speak Russian.

          1. Wzrd1

            Re: What would be really funny ...

            "Me too, and I'm a pure-blooded Scot who doesn't even speak Russian."

            Because the POTUS is endowed with the power to declare war, raise taxes and make it rain upon your favorite parade, right?

            WWIII would require *Congress* to declare war, not a POTUS.

            But then, we have a President Elect who stated flatly that having unused nuclear weapons makes little sense to him, so enjoy the fireworks display when someone irritates him.

            That should take all of thirty seconds.

        5. Wzrd1

          Re: What would be really funny ...

          "I have talked to quite a few and every single one I talked was pretty much all of an opinion that Hillary == WW3. Their media, TV, etc aired similar conclusions."

          Спасибо тебе друг.

          Теперь вернитесь к трахал твою мать.

      2. Nehmo

        Re: What would be really funny ...

        I doubt the DNC or Podesta leaks were even hacks. Apparently, Seth Rich (DNC's Voter Expansion Data Director since 2014) had access to the data, and he was killed in a "robbery" in which nothing was taken.

        The media downplayed his position, referring to him as an "operative" or "worker". And the media up-played the robbery motive. The only evidence that it was a robbery was that there were other robberies.

        The killing also took place in a rare blind spot of the numerous cameras in the area.

        1. Wzrd1

          Re: What would be really funny ...

          "Apparently, Seth Rich (DNC's Voter Expansion Data Director since 2014) had access to the data, and he was killed in a "robbery" in which nothing was taken."

          Because voter expansion data directors carry Exchange data stores in their wallets.

      3. Wzrd1

        Re: What would be really funny ...

        @a_yank_lurker, three words.

        Tools, techniques and tactics.

        As far as I'm concerned, this is casus belli. But then, I've read the report.

    3. Archtech Silver badge

      Re: What would be really funny ...

      Funny you should say that...

      http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2016/12/05/recount-unrecountable/95007392/

      "Michigan’s largest county voted overwhelmingly for Democratic candidate Hillary Clinton, but officials couldn’t reconcile vote totals for 610 of 1,680 precincts during a countywide canvass of vote results late last month.

      "Most of those are in heavily Democratic Detroit, where the number of ballots in precinct poll books did not match those of voting machine printout reports in 59 percent of precincts, 392 of 662".

      Also see:

      http://www.wnd.com/2016/12/recount-uncovers-serious-fraud-in-detroit/?cat_orig=politics

      It's well worth reading.

      1. Wzrd1

        Re: What would be really funny ...

        "Funny you should say that..."

        Yeah, our eldest child was at work, working a 12 hour shift at the hospital, when our youngest child went to vote and noticed that her name was signed in the voting log, in handwriting not her own and somehow she had her political party changed as well.

        For the first time in my life, I'm seriously considering stockpiling ten thousand rounds of ammunition.

  3. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    "Trump himself kept denying there was any evidence of it."

    Yes Minister aficionados will have their own reading of this.

    1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge

      He's not even a civil serpent.

      1. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken Silver badge

        Well, he's certainly not civil.

        1. JetSetJim Silver badge
          Paris Hilton

          > Well, he's certainly not civil.

          Does self-serving count as being a servant, though?

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      You may say that, but I couldn't possibly comment.

  4. Mark 85 Silver badge

    If it looks like, smells like it, and feels like it, you probably shouldn't step in it.... and this whole mess is a large steaming pile. And by that, the fake news sites, the bots on Twatter and many forums, along with what the article mentioned should be included along with the likes of Google and Facebook's burying their heads about "fake news". Those last two, it's obvious, profit. Even the fake news sites are about profit. The rest of the steaming pile should still get looked at. There's been more manipulation and possible criminal activity in this election than I can recall including Watergate--- the granddaddy of them all in modern times.

    The problem is, after any investigations by anyone, the politics will come into full play with blaming, denials, smirks, winks, nudges, and ultimately buried as nothing will be done as this type of thing will be the new status quo.

    Being an "independent" (non party affiliated), I think it would be great if all sides could look at this objectively as if the charges are true, the next time, it could be the "other party" that gets the win... or even a 3rd party. As it is, why bother having an election if it's going to be manipulated for everyone's but the citizen's interest.

    </rant>

    1. TeacherMARK

      ...or... it could have been a free and fair election!

      1. This post has been deleted by its author

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        "or... it could have been a free and fair election!"

        Wow. A genuine comedian. Quick, take a photo.

    2. Rich 11 Silver badge

      As it is, why bother having an election if it's going to be manipulated for everyone's but the citizen's interest.

      That would invalidate the last 60 years of politics, if not longer.

    3. Archtech Silver badge

      Consistent

      "As it is, why bother having an election if it's going to be manipulated for everyone's but the citizen's interest".

      Obviously, so that the citizens' interests aren't represented. After all, that's exactly what the system is designed for. (While looking as if they are, naturally. If you haven't met Edward Bernays, take a little time to read up about him and his much more sophisticated successors).

      And by the way, the fact that you see the whole mess as a large steaming pile is a big win for the establishment. If all the ordinary citizens are so confused they don't know which way is up, and so disgusted by all the dishonesty they throw up their hands and quit - that is everything the stablishment could possibly wish for.

      1. Sir Runcible Spoon Silver badge

        Re: Consistent

        I'm beginning to wonder if they were all at it* and Trumps camp just did it better, hence why no-one wants to look too closely.

        *work it out

    4. breakfast
      Black Helicopters

      Even if there was minimal foreign involvement ( and all the evidence seems to suggest there is ) it seems that all the electoral organisation in the US is completely partisan, so there is a huge amount of voter suppression and gerrymandering that goes on across the board there.

      I don't know why anybody in the US thinks that is alright, but everyone seems to take an attitude of "oh well, I guess people's votes don't really matter that much anyway" which seems really odd in a country that makes a big old fuss about democracy. And that's even before you get to the weirdness of the Electoral College and the way that your vote has a totally different value based on where you live.

    5. Wayland Bronze badge

      Fake News = The Register

      Surely this is a fake news site. The Register is writing their stories rather than going to legitimate sources like the BBC. This means they are often at odds with the real news.

  5. Jack of Shadows Silver badge

    The problem here is that we, the US, have a consistent track record of "influencing" elections for decades and that includes hacking. Kinda hard portraying ourselves as a victim here.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "We" are not doing any portraying. The Democrat Party is doing that. They are highly skilled at playing the victim. Unfortunately for them, we no longer respond to that sort of manipulation by rich and powerful corruptocrats who can't accept they lost.

      Oh yes, Russia clearly got Trump elected. And I think the Tooth Fairy, the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus were possibly involved as well. We need them all investigated, and before another holiday goes by!

      1. Def Silver badge
        Facepalm

        ...we no longer respond to that sort of manipulation by rich and powerful corruptocrats...

        No, these days you respond to a completely different sort of manipulation by rich and powerful corruptocrats.

        Let's see how that works out for you in the long run.

      2. MrDamage

        > "rich and powerful corruptocrats who can't accept they lost."

        Like the rich and powerful corruptocrat whose ego is so fragile, he insists he also won the popular vote when the numbers tell a different story?

        I don't need to wonder how his ego is going to handle this. Another explosive "so unfair" brain fart on tw@tter, trying to skew the truth, like when Obama "attacked" a Drumpf supporter at a DNC convention, of the stage cast who "attacked" Pence.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Yes ... in the search for sympathy I'd say that Obama is at the back of the queue

    3. Eddy Ito Silver badge

      Yes but when "we" influence elections "we" do it by honest and straightforward assassinations. Honest in the sense that a ready scapegoat gets found guilty and executed, straightforward in that it's often a potential next head of state that "we" also find undesirable.

      1. Wzrd1

        "Yes but when "we" influence elections "we" do it by honest and straightforward assassinations."

        Two words and a name.

        Operation Ajax. Kermit Roosevelt.

        No assassinations at all.

        For some odd reason, Iran is still a bit miffed with the US, go figure.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      and that includes hacking

      Can you provide an example of hacking, because I'm not aware of any.

      1. Archtech Silver badge

        Re: and that includes hacking

        That would be hard to do, as there is no evidence of ANY computer hacking deciding ANY election ANYWHERE at ANY TIME.

        That's one of the attractive features of competent computer hacking, for those who choose to employ it.

    5. veti Silver badge

      Yes, the US does that.

      So you're perfectly OK with others doing it to you, then?

      Whatever gave you the idea this was about "fairness"? We're not in a playground here.

    6. Archtech Silver badge

      Whatever it takes

      "The problem here is that we, the US, have a consistent track record of "influencing" elections for decades and that includes hacking".

      And killing. Lots of killing.

  6. cd

    I upvoted you, but it isn't hard at all; irony is lost on this proletariat.

  7. Lars Silver badge
    WTF?

    As far I can understand

    Hillary got more votes than Trump but lost, what the hell have the Russians to do with that. What if it was the Chinese.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: As far I can understand

      That's right, the Russians gave it their all, and even managed to get Hillary the popular vote.

      What can you do? Evil manipulators don't always win, that's all.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: As far I can understand

      People that bring up the issue of the popular vote fail to understand how and why the US political system works like it does. The electoral college was set up so as to check the influence of large population centres. Without it, the large (in terms of population) states could dominate over the rest, a situation that would've prevented the smaller states from agreeing to join the union in the first place.

      The founding fathers were a lot smarter than many give them credit for today.

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: As far I can understand

        The Russian system was also setup to check the influence of any population centers swinging the election.

        The one-man one-vote system under Putin shows he was a lot smarter than many give him credit for.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: As far I can understand

          And with that one man having the vote, there is no probelems with ties or recounts.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: As far I can understand

          "one-man one-vote system under Putin"

          That one man being Vladimir Vladimirovich.

          1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

            Re: As far I can understand

            "one-man one-vote system under Putin"

            That one man being Vladimir Vladimirovich.

            And (ob Pratchett ref) he has the one vote.

        3. Archtech Silver badge

          Re: As far I can understand

          What I can't understand is why so many people choose to post anonymously when their comments consist of attacks on Mr Putin and Russia, and such attacks seem to command universal popularity. Why not post under your real name, and bask in the glory of everyone's approval? Or are you afraid of Spetsnaz coming down your chimney to get you?

      2. Tomato42 Silver badge
        Boffin

        Re: As far I can understand

        @AC 10th Dec 2016: No, it was established to allow for translating the votes of the small ruling class of slave owners in the South to have the same say as the manufacturers and free people of the North.

        it is well after its "best before" date and it should be abolished

        1. Eddy Ito Silver badge

          Re: As far I can understand

          @Tomato42: You're conflating counting each slave as 3/5 of a person instead of not at all in an effort to pad the South's representation in Congress with the Electoral College. That issue has long been rectified.

          The electoral college worked exactly as intended since Clinton only wins the popular vote because of California. Without California, Trump has well over a million vote lead. Of course, changing it to a popular vote doesn't necessarily change the outcome as many voters in non-competitive states would likely turn out. I'm reasonably certain that California's 'blue' bias suppresses the 'red' vote in California as much as the 'red' bias in Wyoming suppresses the 'blue' turnout there but given the population disparities it may not move the needle very much.

          Remember we have a Democratic Republic not a Democracy. I have to agree with Plato that it's probably better that way.

        2. Old one

          Re: As far I can understand

          Electoral College is an equalizer. Prior to 1778 the Republics of Rode Island and Delaware knew that they could never equal the population of NY, Georgia or Pennsylvania. As an equalizer the upper law making house - Senate - has two members from each state originally chosen by the state legislators not the populace. A system to balance the presidential selection was needed to get all the independent Republics to sign the new Constitution of the UNITED STATES. Rhode Island had stopped the signing the prior year because of concerns over personal liberties and state's rights.

        3. Archtech Silver badge

          Re: As far I can understand

          That's funny, because as late as 1850 prominent citizens were being ostracised - frozen out of polite society - in Boston, simply for having come out publicly for the abolition of slavery.

          "The Free Soil Party fared ill in Beacon Street. The social arbiters of Boston—George Ticknor and the rest,—had to admit, however unwillingly, that the Free Soil leaders could not mingle with the friends and followers of Mr. Webster. Sumner was socially ostracised, and so, for that matter, were Palfrey, Dana, Russell, Adams, and all the other avowed anti-slavery leaders, but for them it mattered less, because they had houses and families of their own; while Sumner had neither wife nor household, and, though the most socially ambitious of all, and the most hungry for what used to be called polite society, he could enter hardly half-a-dozen houses in Boston".

          - "The Education of Henry Adams", Chapter 2.

          http://www.bartleby.com/159/2.html

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: As far I can understand

        Things get even more interesting if you look at results at the county rather than the state level:

        "Overall, he won 2,622 predominantly small counties while Clinton won 490, most of which were much more populous"

        Illinois, with the exception of Chicago and Springfield (the capital) went Republican.

        So did Northern California and New York with the exception of New York City.

        http://time.com/4587866/donald-trump-election-map/

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: As far I can understand

          There's a problem with that Time map, take a single North CA county, it reports it as follows:

          Mendocino County, CA

          Romney 27.58%

          Obama 66.23%

          Margin +38.65% D

          Trump 30.30%

          Clinton 58.58%

          Margin +28.29% D

          Shift since 2012: +10.37% Republican

          But it ignores some key data:

          1) The 2012 percentages add to 93.81%, the 2016 to 88.88%

          2) The actual republican gain was +2.72%, the drop in margin didn't reflect a republican gain, it reflected votes moving to a category that they chose not to report.

          Or am I completely misunderstanding this?

          1. Eddy Ito Silver badge

            Re: As far I can understand

            2) The actual republican gain was +2.72%, the drop in margin didn't reflect a republican gain, it reflected votes moving to a category that they chose not to report.

            Or am I completely misunderstanding this?

            Seems to me that you understand perfectly. That map is pretty bogus. Have a look at York County, Virginia. It seems a bit of a stretch to say there was a Democratic shift of +3.56% when Hillary actually got a smaller percentage of the votes than Obama did in 2012. It's clearly an indicator of a shift to third party candidates but the MSM likes to pretend they don't exist.

            Romney: 59.51% - Obama: 38.83% - Margin :+20.68% R

            Trump: 55.22% - Clinton: 38.11% - Margin: +17.11% R

            Shift since 2012: +3.56% Democratic

      4. Aitor 1 Silver badge

        Re: As far I can understand

        No. That was NOT the reason and it is not how it works.

      5. Potemkine Silver badge

        Re: As far I can understand

        The founding fathers were a lot smarter than many give them credit for today.

        Violating the basics of democracy, "one man, one vote" was indeed a smart move to have a system ensuring that conservative rural areas are overrepresented over those dangerous progressive cities.

      6. Archtech Silver badge

        Re: As far I can understand

        It's also true that the founding fathers were a lot smarter than many today.

    3. Lapun Mankimasta

      Re: As far I can understand

      "[...] Russians to do with that. What if it was the Chinese."

      Russian Shmussians, Chinese, Shminese. It was the Nasal Epicures of Tau Ceti Three! I read it on the Interwebs! So there!!!

    4. Archtech Silver badge

      Re: As far I can understand

      Actually, Lars, I think you will find the culprits were the men who wrote the US Constitution.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Russians or not

    America lost.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Russians or not

      Yes, we lost the chance to be ruled over by an ultra-corrupt, power hungry federal felon, and we're about to lose the worst president we've ever had. If that's losing, some more please!

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: Russians or not

        Although I am a little concerned that man-of-the-people, cross between Bono and Mother Theresa, kind hearted philanthropist Trump might be troubled by the nastier aspects of the role.

      2. HausWolf

        Re: Russians or not

        The worst president we've ever had has been out of office almost 8 years now, when are you going to leave him alone?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Russians or not

          No way, the previous worst left office in 1980, and it took the Democrats 28 years to find one more clueless and stupider, but hey, no worries, at least he was cool !

          Obama is a fuckwit, a useless, inexperienced, narcissist with delusions of grandeur and the ability to fool the rubes by reading well from a auto-cue. His term has been a disaster for the USA in economic terms, foreign policy terms, and in cultural terms. Can't imagine that anyone would find it easy to do worse even if they tried to.

          1. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

            Re: Russians or not

            "inexperienced, narcissist with delusions of grandeur"

            Trump, in a nutshell.

      3. ecofeco Silver badge

        Re: Russians or not

        We did? Surely you jest because nobody is this fucking stupid.

        Trump WAS elected after all.

      4. bombastic bob Silver badge
        Thumb Up

        Re: Russians or not

        "Yes, we lost the chance to be ruled over by an ultra-corrupt, power hungry federal felon, and we're about to lose the worst president we've ever had. If that's losing, some more please!"

        multiple-thumbs-up from this 'Merkin, sick and tired of lefties, socialists, and outright CRIMINALS ru[i,n]ning the gummint. And Buh-Bye OBAKA-"CARE" !!! [don't let the back door of history hit you in the arse on the way out]

        Looking forward to 2017. For me, 2016 SUCKED up until the November election.

        Oh, and has ANYONE come to the conclusion that _MAYBE_ independent hackers, or a group like 'Anonymous" might've been behind any alleged 'hacks', such as the revealing of who the Demo-Rats *REALLY* are by the content of their "private" e-mails?

        Oh, and a special thanks to Julian Assange, you definitely helped! You, sir, deserve a BEER!

        1. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

          Re: Russians or not

          I like the satire, sir!

        2. Farnet

          Re: Russians or not

          I'm finding the rants of the Republicans here very amusing.

          Trump was quite right in his quote about liking the lower educated voters, and it shows on some of these posts.

          I like how the voters ignored the fact that he is also a spoilt ill educated billionaire brat who is openly racist but is ironically married to an imigrant,

          He is already destroying the trade agreements and relations with China plus the Asian trade agreement itself (dont forget China owns quite a bit of the US debt, so I wouldnt upset them too much), asked the generals a few months ago as to why the USA has used nukes in recent wars. and has already started using his new found power to bolster his own financial interests.

          I think next year is going to open quite a few eyes and see what reality is going to be like, and what effect damaging international trade agreements will do to the pupulous of the States. I can sense a Tax hike for the poorer sectors already.

      5. Rattus Rattus

        Re: Russians or not

        "Worst president you've ever had"? What are you talking about, Bush has been gone for eight years.

      6. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

        Re: Russians or not

        "and we're about to lose the worst president we've ever had"

        You mean "about to get", right?

        Simple mistake to make.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Russians or not

      The american general population lost on the primaries.

      It was just a matter of deciding between two evils, and the public decided on the worst, out of spite.

      Still, I think that for us, non US ppl, Trump is better. No TTIP, that alone is great. TTIP is absolutely undemocratic, and very damaging for the UK as we would have been left out of it.

      Also, I hope that the us stops funding terrorists, or at least decreasing the funding of them.

      Just those two things would be grat for the world.

      1. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

        Re: Russians or not

        "TTIP is absolutely undemocratic, and very damaging for the UK as we would have been left out of it."

        That's not a real problem as the UK is part of the massive EU trade region!

        Oh, wait a second...

  9. TeacherMARK

    Well, the leftie loonies aren't going to roll over and play dead are they! Losing has to be the fault of someone else, right? It seems they are turning to political self-flagellation now... It's fun to watch, though!

    Bless their hearts... they won the 'popular vote' though... except the campaign (on BOTH sides) was fought for ELECTORAL votes! The best (and poorest) campaign easily won that and it's all the fault of Russians, news feeds on Facebook and the FBI for having the cheek to do their jobs!

    I'm lovin' it!

    1. Flocke Kroes Silver badge

      As a leftist loon ...

      Only a leftish loon would say the election was rigged - and I have proof: Trump did not win by a landslide.

      1. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

        Re: As a leftist loon ...

        Sheesh....

        The art of the skilled 'hacker' is to do just enough to get what they want and NOT to go overboard.

        A Landslide would be very suspicious. A close result is not.

        1. Adrian 4 Silver badge

          Re: As a leftist loon ...

          In science, but not in politics. In politics, a close result 'might' be wrong. A landslide is obviously the will of the people.

          1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

            Re: As a leftist loon ...

            Anyone who regards Ms Clinton as a "leftie" is possibly facing the wrong way

            1. JeffyPoooh Silver badge
              Pint

              Re: As a leftist loon ...

              When the USA faces right, they'll find Canada on their left.

              Coincidence?

    2. Hans 1 Silver badge
      Happy

      >Well, the leftie loonies ...

      Lefty, Hilary ? You must be kiddin', right ? No such thing as a lefty in the US .... that is why you do not have proper laws protecting workers, reasonable paid leave etc ...

      The propaganda of Mr McCarthy worked wonders, even half a century later ... generations of brain-washed ... ;-)

      NB: I don't care, I don't live there ...

      1. Rattus Rattus

        @ Hans 1

        I have to agree, I'm always amused when an American says something or someone is "left" as if they really believe they know what the term means. It's almost as funny as hearing them say "socialist". Here's a hint, USA: your Democrats are situated some distance to the right of right-wing parties in many other countries, including my own. Your Republicans are way over the madness event horizon and accelerating.

    3. James 51 Silver badge
      Childcatcher

      I am surprised McD's haven't already issued a DCMA take down on you post.

    4. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

      What, exactly, is a " leftie loonies"?

      Is it a term rednecks use a lot when they can't be bothered to think? (All the time, in other words)

      1. Felonmarmer

        In the US, a lefty loon is someone who doesn't think it's a good idea to let people die in the gutter if they can't afford private healthcare.

    5. Terrance Brennan

      The only presidential candidate ever endorsed by the American Nazi Party, the KKK, and the dictator of Russia and you like it. Moron.

  10. That_Guy

    citation needed

    "the pattern of malicious cyber activity." - what pattern? Vague much?

    Going to go on a limb and speculate a coming mass tear duct blockage epidemic

    http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/blocked-tear-duct/symptoms-causes/dxc-20183598

  11. Palpy

    AFAIK, the Putin Doctrine is more or less --

    -- "Democracy is a sham, and ve vill demonstrate this to be so."

    The currently anointed Russian political saint is Ivan Ilyin, a proto-Fascist active in the 1920s and 1930s. Putin has had Ilyin's remains repatriated from a burial ground in Switzerland, references to Ilyin's political philosophy surfaces in the speeches of Dmitri A. Medvedev, Russia's president from 2008 to 2012, as well as those of various government figures and (for God's sake) the head of the Russian Orthodox Church.

    The point is: a fundamental tenet of Ilyin's politics is that individualism, as expressed in Western democracy, is rotten and stupid and bad.

    Even if Russia could not hack the US election, Putin's ideology would be well served by simply casting doubt and discrediting the election. His minions did not have to actually influence the outcome, all they had to do was make the US election look stupid. Make it look like a mug's game.

    "While Russian leaders consciously work to hollow out the idea of democracy in their own country, they also seek to discredit democracy abroad — including, this year, in the United States." (link to quote, and Ilyin on Wikipedia.)

    In sober fact, I think the election of Trump has little to do with Russian intervention. It's possibly more symptomatic of the wretched economic inequality in the US. Which is ironic, as Trump is the very personification of elitist wealth, and his policies -- insofar as we can see them through the smog of his tweetified rhetoric -- will vastly increase economic inequality via huge tax breaks for the wealthy, huge tax breaks for corporations, and establishment of a permanent economic aristocracy through elimination of taxes on inheritance.

    His success is also propelled, of course, by the many Americans who confuse Internet fakery with fact. (Example 1, example 2, look up more yourselves.) This has been decades in the making: Limbaugh, Hannity, et al, have peddled crackpottery and bogus conspiracy theories for quite a long time.

    It's come home to roost, that is all.

    And Putin, along with other admirers of Russian fascism, must be smugly pleased. Chuffed, if you will.

    1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
      Windows

      Re: AFAIK, the Putin Doctrine is more or less --

      Sorry, but the usual chain logic "X is associated to fascism thus X and anyone associated to X are bad and must be demonized (applicable only if the subject is not Israel or Ukraine)" just doesn't work for me.

      Ivan Ilyin, a proto-Fascist active in the 1920s and 1930s

      And we are off with a solid tarringstatement. So what's wrong with Ilyin? He sounds like rum chap. Remember these were the 20s and the 30s. Even saint FDR was taken by Mussolini's "management style", which must be why he tried un-american control freakery during the depression, causing catastrophic economic damage. Maybe the only thing wrong with Ilyin is that he's one of Putin's favorite philosophers, so something MUST be wrong with him?

      Putin's ideology would be well served by simply casting doubt and discrediting the election.

      Maybe this MSM meme (link to NYT, the arbiter of truth? I laugh!) should be explained a bit further. It's pretty acausal. As for making the election "look like a mug's game", well, anyone who has gone through the election of 2000 knows what's up. You can't win, but maybe you can sabotage.

      Meanwhile, you could do worse than have a look at Distorting Putin’s Favorite Philosophers (WARNING! The site I'm linking to has been declared a Putin outlet by Grand Organ and War Propeller the WaPo!) for a discussion on Ilyin.

      The case of Ivan Il’in (1883-1954), whom Putin regularly quotes and whom Putin is known to particularly respect, is more complex. Some of Snegovaya’s suspicions in his case are indeed accurate. Il’in has a conservative temperament.

      It is fair to call him a nationalist, though one concerned with Russia alone, and with no messianic ambitions. As will be seen below, Il’in was not against authoritarianism. Il’in was, however, complex and worthy of much more careful consideration.

      ...

      Here is how, in Our Tasks, Il’in described the character of the “Soviet man” (a man that Ilyn deplores, so much about the meme of Putin wanting to restore Soviet Russia, then) that the future Russia would inherit: “The totalitarian system imposes a number of unhealthy tendencies and habits among which we may find the following: a willingness to inform on others (and knowingly falsely at that), pretense and lying, loss of the sense of personal dignity and the absence of a well-rooted patriotism, thinking in a slavish manner and by aping the thoughts of others, flattery combined with servility, constant fear. (Hey wait, is he talking about the West? Never mind.)

      “The fight to overcome these unhealthy habits will not be easy It will require time, an honest and courageous self-awareness, a purifying repentance, the acquisition of new habits of independence and self-reliance, and, most importantly of all, a new national system of spiritual and intellectual education. [I. A. Il’in, Nashi Zadachi (Our Tasks), sobr. soch. (collected works), vol. 2 (Moskva, Russkaya Kniga: 1993), 23-24.]

      Il’in was indeed deeply concerned about the danger of Russia’s disintegration and indeed was concerned about the defense of its borders, although, of course, not their restoration. To avoid such disintegration, Il’in urged Russians to not repeat what he considered the fatal mistake of the February Revolution its premature push for full democracy.

      Guy was not wrong.

      1. Voland's right hand Silver badge

        Re: AFAIK, the Putin Doctrine is more or less --

        Guy was not wrong.

        Yep.

        1. Democracy does not work with hungry, disillusioned and poor people.

        2. Going to a fully fledged democracy while most of the population is hungry, disillusioned and poor will lead to either disintegration of the country.

        We have seen both - again and again and again. Hitler was elected via democratic means, so was Peron. Hungry, disillusioned, poor + democracy == democratically elected dictatorship (I am deliberately avoiding to put Trump into that list. For now).

        Yilin writings are simply one take on the subject. They are by the way not particularly different of the darling of the US left today - Corey Robin Just 70 years prior and Russian living abroad.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: AFAIK, the Putin Doctrine is more or less --

      "His success is also propelled, of course, by the many Americans who confuse Internet fakery with fact." Like the imbeciles who think poor Grandma Hillary lost because the dastardly Commies stole the election. And the morons who believe a shadowy cabal of subversive tools of the KGB run various news organizations from the Right and the Left. People like yourself and the credulous dimwit who wrote this article are like the melon headed love child of Joe McCarthy and some paranoid schizophrenic.

    3. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken Silver badge

      Re: AFAIK, the Putin Doctrine is more or less --

      From what little I know about Ilyin I'd say he was rather in the transcendental camp and big into Hegel (which I think is the worrying bit, but that's neither here nor there).

      Anyway, to paraphrase Churchill*, democracy is a sham, but so far the best we've come up with.

      * "Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time" - HC debate on the Parliament Bill, 1947-11-11, full speech here. BTW, the same speech in which he said something else, and something that should be quoted at least as much: "But it is not Parliament that should rule; it is the people who should rule through Parliament."

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: AFAIK, the Putin Doctrine is more or less --

        "But it is not Parliament that should rule; it is the people who should rule through Parliament."

        Which has been achieved if "the people" means the people in the cabinet office

      2. Voland's right hand Silver badge

        Re: AFAIK, the Putin Doctrine is more or less --

        Ilyin I'd say he was rather in the transcendental camp and big into Hegel (which I think is the worrying bit,

        I'd be worried if an early 20th century philosopher is not big into Hegel.

        1. Archtech Silver badge

          Re: AFAIK, the Putin Doctrine is more or less --

          Even Russell and Whitehead were hegelians in their youth - a stunning demonstration of the power of custom and tradition over reason. (Luckily they soon got over it and began thinking clearly).

  12. Your alien overlord - fear me
    Coat

    I heard it was the fault of the EU. Damn those Europeans !

    Mine's the one with an election box in it.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      The one thing the EU definitely didn't do was get Trump elected. No one in the US was paying the slightest attention to them, toward the end particularly. EU? EU who?

      1. Farnet

        Well I could agree with you as the majority of Republicans probably dont have passports and wouldnt be able to even point to the USA on a world map, so why would they know about the EU?

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Perhaps the US should require any presidential candidate to prove their sanity

    Given the known connection between psychopaths and prestige it has always suprised me that no country has required canditates to positions of power to prove they are "sane".

    Also how the people of each country repeatedly support their "great leaders" irrational behaviour for years afterwards, presumably because they were "our" wackjobs.

    1. Trilkhai

      Re: Perhaps the US should require any presidential candidate to prove their sanity

      The trouble is that unless they also have something else, people with anti–social personality disorder are sane, not out of touch with reality — they just have little–to–no conscience, belief that others have natural rights, or ability to form emotional attachments.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Perhaps the US should require any presidential candidate to prove their sanity

        For a given value of sane but perhaps the problem is that we have become desensitised.

        Are those symptoms really assets in a leader of people or have we just been tolded they are by the same dysfunctionals who of course seek power in any structure availible, including the press.

        Further how can someone who cannot bond with or truely understand any group truely represent the desires of anyone but themselves.

      2. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken Silver badge

        Re: Perhaps the US should require any presidential candidate to prove their sanity

        Now, why did the name Peter Thiel just pop up in my head...

      3. Archtech Silver badge

        Re: Perhaps the US should require any presidential candidate to prove their sanity

        And in the world of politics and big business their camouflage is perfectly adapted to the background. It's the few misfits who are decent and honest who look terribly out of place.

    2. This post has been deleted by its author

    3. Solmyr ibn Wali Barad

      Re: Perhaps the US should require any presidential candidate to prove their sanity

      Thing is, manipulative psychopaths can usually prove their sanity with ease, and with a next breath, they can prove anybody else to be a wackjob. Even a well seasoned specialist has trouble* breaking through their reality distortion fields. You just can't have a reliable assessment in this matter.

      *that's a rather serious understatement, by the way.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Perhaps the US should require any presidential candidate to prove their sanity

        Time to roll out the Voight-Kampff test see http://bladerunner.wikia.com/wiki/Voight-Kampff_machine

      2. GrapeBunch Bronze badge

        Re: Perhaps the US should require any presidential candidate to prove their sanity

        Where I come from, the problem was not psychopaths, but a sociopath, who ruled the country for far too long.

    4. ecofeco Silver badge

      Re: Perhaps the US should require any presidential candidate to prove their sanity

      No sane person would ever WANT a high public office.

    5. Voland's right hand Silver badge

      Re: Perhaps the US should require any presidential candidate to prove their sanity

      Incorrect - at least some Soviet block countries required a psychiatric evaluation certificate in order to run for any electable position from around Hrushov's time onwards. It was introduced specifically to avoid a repetition of Ezhov, Beria and Stalin.

      It was one of the first things to be removed as undemocratic after the fall of the wall.

      The reason was that a lot of the dissidents who formed the early "democratic movements" supported by the USA and Europe in Eastern Europe at the time would have failed it due to an extensive psychiatric record. For some of them it was the means used by the system to "suppress them". For others it was the diagnosis all right - I have observed them from the "front row" and there were quite a few for which the diagnosis was probably correct.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Perhaps the US should require any presidential candidate to prove their sanity

        "at least some Soviet block countries required a psychiatric evaluation certificate", this would explain the Cuban missile Crisis outcome, the US didn't just BS the Russians that they were insane they actually were.

        It makes you think though, was the US position a bluff? what would have happened if both sides had taken irrational positions. What happens the next time now that the Russians have removed their protection from promoting insane leaders.

        1. Voland's right hand Silver badge
          Devil

          Re: Perhaps the US should require any presidential candidate to prove their sanity

          this would explain the Cuban missile Crisis outcome,

          That was _AFTER_ the requirement for the certificate was put in. So if anyone was certifiable it was not on the Soviet side. By that time Hrushov performed a "chistka" on most of the last certifiable idiots from Stalin's days. The last few remaining ones were nowhere near politics and weaponry - at the time of the Cuban crisis, out of all Stalin's pet idiocies and idiots the last one standing was the denial of Genetics (Lysenko and Co). It was terminated shortly after the crisis.

          By the way - if the Soviets were anywhere as certifiable as claimed by West propaganda at the time, world would have been a nuclear wasteland 10 times over.

    6. Archtech Silver badge

      Re: Perhaps the US should require any presidential candidate to prove their sanity

      Ah. An excellent idea in principle. Problem is, what are the experimentally tested methods for proving someone sane? Or even insane? It's very much a matter of opinion, and the person in the street might be inclined to find many psychiatrists (and even psychologists) a bit odd.

  14. Abacus

    Given that less than 60% of Americans could even be arsed to vote, the result of the election was more a game of chance than anything else. It was a matter of who could be bothered to vote where, and the effect of any external influence would be pretty much impossible to determine.

    The only people who could be legitimately aggrieved by the election result are the people who actually voted, and did not vote for Trump. This is somewhere less than 30% of the entire US electorate.

    As for the other 70%, they either got the result the wanted (ie: they voted for Trump) or they demonstrably didn't give a shit about the result, because,they didn't vote at all. Either way, they don't have any basis for complaint.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Voter participation tens to be low in the freer democracies, and much higher in near-dictatorships, sometimes close to 100%. Thus you could say that low turnout is a sign that democracy is doing its job.

      1. Rattus Rattus

        Big John, what are you trying to say about my country, where we routinely have 97% turnout or higher? You bigoted wanker.

    2. breakfast

      Or they didn't vote because they were being actively suppressed by one of the many legal measures that were in place to prevent citizens from voting in the US elections. That happened to a lot of people, particularly in swing states ( as the rules tend to be instigated by republican administrations who want to help out their own side ) and very likely enough to swing the states needed for an electoral college win.

  15. DocJames
    Holmes

    Plausibility

    Seems that the Russians were trying to obsfucate and influence the election. Did they manage? Dunno; should probably investigate.

    Did they influence it sufficiently to change the result? Dunno again (possible given the very small margin in the 3 swing states) but too late now.

    Are electronic voting systems A Bad Idea? Hell yes. Obligatory: http://xkcd.com/463/

    Are the major scandals all those who were denied their right to vote, and those who don't bother to show up? Yup, IMHO

    1. Trilkhai

      Re: Plausibility

      Bingo. Right now, we don't even know what the actual ballot totals in the 3 states were, because of the sheer amount of incompetence, technical malfunction, obfuscation, and potential corruption that's being unearthed by the recounts. (I've been following at palmerreport.com for the trainwreck factor — the people behind it do a decent job of including verified source links.)

    2. tom dial Silver badge

      Re: Plausibility

      Unlike some countries, the US extends the notion of personal liberty to include the liberty to decline to participate in elections. That is not a scandal.

      If there is a scandal around denial of voting rights, it nearly entirely concerns denial of the right to those who have completed prison sentences and have not had full civil rights restored, not voter suppression, so called. Complaints about poor people of color being denied by reason of color is largely nonsense and perfectly understandable in terms of normal partisan activity. The Republicans writing the laws took "black" to be an accurate proxy for "Democratic voter" as, indeed, it is. No rational person thinks those laws would have escaped their initial committee assignments unscathed if as many as 25 or 30 per cent of the targeted voters had been believed to lean Republican. Aside from that, the voter suppression laws, so called, actually prevented very few from voting (although they unquestionably made registration and obtaining require ID more difficult for some) and in most places probably fell about evenly on both black and white citizens.

      The real scandal is the quasi-institutionalization of the major parties and the political rigidity that has brought, to the point where major parties presented national candidates that a large majority of the electorate considered untrustworthy and unsuited for the office they sought.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Plausibility

        And the long-delayed reaction to that political rigidity resulted in President Trump.

        Now we see the shocked behavior of that ossified system when it all suddenly breaks down.

        1. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

          Re: Plausibility

          "Now we see the shocked behavior of that ossified system when it all suddenly breaks down."

          I'm sure that's been said on many occasions. For example when a breath of fresh air swept through the country in the form of the Nazi party.

          1. Archtech Silver badge

            Re: Plausibility

            What terrible rubbish. Germany in the early 1930s was about as far from being politically "ossified" as it's possible for a country to be. Defeated in a ghastly five-year-long war, starved out by a blockade that went on killing civilians for a year after the war had supposedly ended, crushed by reparation demands that even the demanders admitted were utterly impossible to pay, racked by revolution and the threat of a communist takeover, followed by the world's worst hyperinflation reducing everyone except the spivs and profiteers to utter poverty, and saddled with a constitution cooked up by the victors for their convenience without the slightest consideration for the German people who would have to live under it... "Liquefied" would be a better word.

            If someone had deliberately set out to create a dangerously revolutionary, bitter and violent political atmosphere they couldn't have done a better job.

            1. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

              Re: Plausibility

              "If someone had deliberately set out to create a dangerously revolutionary, bitter and violent political atmosphere they couldn't have done a better job."

              Say what? So the poor Germans had nothing to do with their own position then? Just victims, eh?

          2. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

            Re: Plausibility

            Thumbing down a fact is just proving your ignorance.

            Why don't you try to refute it instead?

    3. Archtech Silver badge

      Re: Plausibility

      "Seems that the Russians were trying to obsfucate and influence the election".

      Evidence? Is there any scrap of evidence at all, apart from politically interested parties claiming they have evidence (but it's too secret to disclose)?

      I must say I like "obsfucate" though. Very self-referential.

  16. aberglas

    Computerized voting

    That is the huge issue in the US. Completely unauditable, secretive systems. And the computers mysteriously malfunction or do not turn up in some precincts and not others.

    Where fraud has been suggested, it is almost always Republicans doing it.

    I am surprised the Democrats did not jump on this when they had the chance.

    http://blackboxvoting.org/

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Computerized voting

      Didn't one candidate end up with a Negative number of votes on one occasion ?

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: Computerized voting

        Being able to vote AGAINST one candidate rather than for another, where they get -1 vote could be interesting.

        Especially combined with compulsory voting

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Computerized voting

          "Being able to vote AGAINST one candidate.."

          I wonder how many voters would describe their vote this way this election?

          I know I would.

    2. tom dial Silver badge

      Re: Computerized voting

      The systems are auditable, with some difficulty, because of the necessity to establish that the software actually in use during the election was not able to misrecord voters' actions. While that is possible in principle under sufficiently controlled conditions, maintaining the controls uniformly across hundreds or thousands of voting places and an order of magnitude more machines and people is difficult and unlikely to be done perfectly. After that, it also is necessary to validate the software used to collect the votes, usually from removable memory cards, and to classify and total the votes for each candidate and issue. The only upside, if there is one, is that if all goes well the totals can be announced in time for the 10 PM news, a dubious benefit.

      Hand counted paper ballots also have had issues, and without question there has been associated election fraud and a few stolen elections. In addition, they are technically fairly easy to audit, although traditional fraud techniques often included ballot spoilage that if done skillfully was hard to detect and correct. Auditing the activities of thousands of people over a 12 - 14 hour period has quite a few vulnerabilities, and paper ballot systems have had the counterpart of malfunctioning machines in the forms of ballot boxes that went missing or had broken seals.

      Nothing is perfect, and election issues certainly are not limited to the US or to one political party.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Computerized voting

      "Where fraud has been suggested, it is almost always Republicans doing it."

      Really? The experience in the locations I have lived has been the opposite.

      Do you have a source for that?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Computerized voting

        "Where fraud has been suggested, it is almost always Republicans doing it."

        Really? The experience in the locations I have lived has been the opposite. Do you have a source for that?

        Etatdame, there is no source in this case, just fake news. The proper statement is:

        "Where fraud has been suggested by partisan leftists, it is (of course) almost always Republicans (allegedly) doing it."

        See? makes a lot more sense now.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Computerized voting

      Bullshit, almost all voter fraud transgressions have been sheeted home to Democrats. Best widely known example, JFK's election in 1960; the count from Illinois is widely accepted has having been stuffed by Democrats and that was the key state in his narrow victory over Richard Nixon.

      Look up the videos released before this election by project Veritas, senior Democrat Party officials boasting about bussing illegal voters from precinct to precinct to vote multiple times; Democrat official in Florida fired for trying to sign up illegals; Al Franken was elected to the Senate with over 400 votes shown to have been from Felons who were not entitled to vote and he won by around 200.

      Voter Fraud in the USDA is almost exclusively a Democrat pastime and has been for the past 50-60 years at least.

  17. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Pot. Kettle. Black.

    After decades of interfering in the the affairs of foreign sovereign states, the US now has the nerve to complain at the suspicion that someone has done it to them?

    1. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken Silver badge

      Re: Pot. Kettle. Black.

      You know, from time to time Karl got it right:

      "History repeats itself, first as tragedy, second as farce."

    2. William 3 Bronze badge

      Re: Pot. Kettle. Black.

      I just posted exactly the same title.

      https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/24/nsa-surveillance-world-leaders-calls

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Pot. Kettle. Black.

      It isn't the US complaining, just a bunch of arrogant lefty power junkies about to be thrown out, along with their legions of brainslapped college-age followers. The rest of the US is having a good chuckle and is otherwise ignoring this sad appeal to fantasy for what it is: Sheer desperation. This garbage will be out on the curb very shortly, awaiting the trash compactor of history.

  18. jake Silver badge

    I wonder how many of the minority of voters ...

    ... who voted for Bluto realize that they put a Russki sympathizer into the Oval Office.

    I pointed this out to my FIL, and I am now banned from their house. No loss ;-)

    1. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

      Re: I wonder how many of the minority of voters ...

      "a Russki sympathizer"

      Do you guys still live in the 1950's?

    2. Archtech Silver badge

      Re: I wonder how many of the minority of voters ...

      "I pointed this out to my FIL, and I am now banned from their house. No loss ;-)"

      Certainly not to them.

  19. chivo243 Silver badge
    Unhappy

    boo hoo boo hoo snif snif

    I cannot believe the amount of crying and pouting and just plain bad sportsmanship this election has brought in Americans. Personally, I'm past disgusted, and wallowing in disappointment.

    It's all like a bunch of spoiled children that aren't getting their way.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: boo hoo boo hoo snif snif

      Sadly, it's not just the septics.

      It's a symptom of the modern generation who have been brought up to belive they entitled to whatever they want. And when denied it, just throw their toys out of the pram and stamp their feet until they get it.

  20. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    So, we have everyone but the FBI claiming that Trump was only elected because of the Russians, while the FBI themsleves reopened the Clinton email investigation allegedly to stop Clinton. Is this just interagency propaganda rivalry getting totally out of hand?

    1. tom dial Silver badge

      The FBI absence might be because the agency's mission is only weakly connected with collection and analysis of foreign intelligence. The foreign intelligence agencies, especially the CIA and even more the NSA are likely to have information that the FBI do not. Those who think the FBI raised the issue of Anthony Weiner's unauthorized possession of government email messages to bias the election against Clinton probably are mistaken, as are those who think it actually had a significant effect in either direction. By that time nearly everyone who cared will have reached a conclusion about how the email server issue spoke to Clinton's suitability for office and treated anything new on that as noise, just as they did with earlier reports of Trump's sexual abuse activities. We all were tired of it, all of it, before then.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        > "The foreign intelligence agencies, especially the CIA and even more the NSA are likely to have information that the FBI do not."

        Conversly, if this is all just weak fabrications by a desperate Democrat Party, then having the FBI join the chorus might look a bit strange, for the reasons you described. Either way explains the FBI's silence.

        Or, FBI Director Comey could just have refused to go along with the lie. If Obama fires him now, it would look very suspicious and pretty much kill the "Russians did it" theory, so Comey could safely refuse to take part, and simply defy Obama in his final days with impunity.

  21. This post has been deleted by its author

  22. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Russia helped Trump win -CIA

    "Russia actively tried to help Donald Trump win the election", CIA report says. It was published on Washington Post this evening.

    http://www.theverge.com/2016/12/9/13905252/donald-trump-russia-us-election-wikileaks-hacking

    Why Facebook and Google(both Jew owned) gave him the extremly important last massive boost? Was it all about algorithms which worked well through these years through many retouitionary events worldwide? Didn't Facebook proved it has the ability to affect popular opinion during so called "Arab Spring"? Doesn't these 2 companies work deserve a separate investigation? Those who keep track of news know Israel also wanted Trump in power, not any liberal who'll pressure Israel to slow down illegal settlements. After Trump's win Netaniahu govt. celebrated his victory and said "The era of a Palestine state is over".-NYtimes

    Will an investigation displease USA's famous Jew lobbing or am I being anti-semitic conspiracy theorist?

    Of cource it doesn't need an investigation if White House already knows the truth and decided not to talk about blood brothers.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Russia helped Trump win -CIA

      "Will an investigation displease USA's famous Jew lobbing or am I being anti-semitic conspiracy theorist?"

      Yes, I'm afraid you are.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Russia helped Trump win -CIA

        Hey, all the guy wants to do is lobb jews, famously. Where's the harm in that? Assuming they are willing and land on something soft, of course...

        1. This post has been deleted by its author

    2. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

      Re: Russia helped Trump win -CIA

      "Why Facebook and Google(both Jew owned)"

      WTF are you?

    3. Archtech Silver badge

      Re: Russia helped Trump win -CIA

      '"Russia actively tried to help Donald Trump win the election", CIA report says'.

      Although if you actually read it, you will find that it doesn't actually offer any concrete evidence. No, that's just their expert opinion.

      Just as there was no evidence Libya was involved in the Lockerbie bombing… no evidence of WMD in Iraq… no evidence that Colonel Qadafi meant to kill civilians… no evidence that anyone in Afghanistan had anything to do with 9/11… no evidence of Mr Assad killing civilians or using poison gas… no evidence of the Russians or Novorossians having shot down MH17.

      No matter, they simply assert these things as matters of fact and ignore any protests. “We have a mountain of evidence…” as Mr Kerry said. (Although not one shred of that mountain has ever been published).

  23. dalethorn

    The sound of butthurt Democrats is so loud it's deafening. With *everything* against Trump, he still won.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Well, yes. But they are in a chaotic space right now, and need "relaxation time." We can all do our part by joyfully goading them, helping to purge those backed-up anger chemicals. It's a public service, really.

    2. ecofeco Silver badge

      Enjoy your pyhric victory. Need a light?

  24. apepper

    Это те же самые люди, которые сказали, у Саддама Хусейна оружия массового уничтожения, выборы закончилась давно в одном из самых больших побед в Коллегии выборщиков в истории. Теперь пришло время двигаться дальше и "Make Great America Again".

  25. W Donelson

    The GOP thanks Russia and the rogue FBI groups for assisting them to Absolute Power.

    But now, the GOP wants the Power, and must kick Russia out to complete the GOP coup d'etat.

    The investigations will find Russia meddled, and cyber-war may result.

    This is the nature of POWER.

    Look for Trump impeachment early, followed by Pence presidency.

    1. Mark 85 Silver badge

      Look for Trump impeachment early, followed by Pence presidency.

      Having Pence in reserve is why Trump won't be impeached or assassinated. Pence is insurance, if you will.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        ALL vice presidents are impeachment insurance.

        1. graeme leggett

          But Pence Is your fully comprehensive, guaranteed loan car, protected no claims discount, multi-car policy, additional personal legal cover, with dedicated claims line, and priority breakdown service sort of impeachment nsurance.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            I guess he would have to be, to be worse than Trump.

            ;-/

  26. Florida1920 Silver badge

    And the lesson is

    Practice safe Internet! Podesta let his email be hacked. Surely we should expect the Russians to try to interfere with us any way they can. Don't we do the same to them? The question isn't whether or not the Russians did it, it's why someone on Podesta's position wasn't better educated on simple security methods. Tied in with Clinton's use of a private email server to conduct State Department business, it was one of the best presents her campaign could have handed to Trump. This was Clinton's election to lose, and she did a great job of doing it.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: And the lesson is

      That's right. If Hillary's minions had been able to keep their dirty deeds and her outright crimes well hidden, the US could now have Hillary for president.

      The fools!

  27. Tubz

    Last ditch attempt for the political elite establishment to overthrow a democratic decision.

  28. William 3 Bronze badge

    Pot. Meet Kettle.

    Liberals for ya.

    Do as I say, not as I do.

    When did this happen?

    Under Obama's watch.

    What a fucking hypocrite.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/24/nsa-surveillance-world-leaders-calls

  29. noj

    "... let's take a closer look... "

    There is an excellent article on The Intercept on the topic of this article:

    https://theintercept.com/2016/12/10/anonymous-leaks-to-the-washpost-about-the-cias-russia-beliefs-are-no-substitute-for-evidence/

    IMO its a worthy read.

    1. tom dial Silver badge

      Re: "... let's take a closer look... "

      I guessed the author correctly from the slant and heavy use of loaded words, but Greenwald makes valid points. It would be best to think of poorly supported anonymous reports from government sources - all governments - as essentially identical to the "fake news" about which the "true news" purveyors are working so diligently to whip up a moral panic.

  30. Captain Badmouth
    Holmes

    Conflicts of interest

    How many of Trump's cabinet have business interests in Russia?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Conflicts of interest

      I don't know, but let's say there are some who do. Should they be purged? Is a diversified portfolio now grounds for dismissal? If so, why was that not the case up until now? Oh yeah, the Russian hacking conspiracy theory.

      Hmmm, seems like a pretty weak excuse to destroy people politically, but if they're conservatives I guess it's okay. And then after half of Trump's cabinet has been eliminated we can accuse Trump himself by association. Yeah!

      1. Captain Badmouth

        Re: Conflicts of interest

        "Should they be purged?"

        Should they be installed in the first place, is what I was getting at.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Conflicts of interest

          So you're suggesting a litmus test you would like to see applied to all cabinet candidates? (Wouldn't everybody?)

          Let's say you get your way and anyone with any stock or other holdings in Russian-connected ventures are disqualified. Won't you then want more restrictions placed on the list? Or is that your one and only demand? I guarantee others will not be satisfied with just that, and will start screaming for all sorts of tests to be applied.

          And why shouldn't they? Trump has now shown he can be rolled just like any weak-kneed Republican, so it's George Bush all over again. Happy times.

          So no, I don't think a savvy operator like Trump is ever going to be sucked into that trap. We're all doomed to labor under a government composed of totally non-pc people. The horror...

          1. Captain Badmouth

            Re: Conflicts of interest

            "Let's say you get your way and anyone with any stock or other holdings in Russian-connected ventures are disqualified. Won't you then want more restrictions placed on the list?"

            I would suggest that the ceo of Exxon with their interests in Arctic oil on Russian territory under a multi-billion dollar deal is a poor choice for Foreign secretary. Are his decisions decided by what's best for USA or what's best for Exxon? Or are these two considerations considered to be one and the same?

            1. Archtech Silver badge

              Re: Conflicts of interest

              "Are his decisions decided by what's best for USA or what's best for Exxon? Or are these two considerations considered to be one and the same?"

              To ask that question is to answer it.

        2. Archtech Silver badge

          Re: Conflicts of interest

          How about people who have business interests in Israel?

          Oh, that's different, you say. How, exactly?

          Not that anyone in US politics could possibly have any business interests in Israel... or vice versa.

          Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

    2. tom dial Silver badge

      Re: Conflicts of interest

      That is something for the Senators to inquire after during their advising and consenting. That, along with the question of whether any such business interests have been divested (as cabinet officers must do), and whether they were so substantial that even after divestiture the candidate is unworthy of consent. It might be argued that Republicans cannot be counted upon to ask the questions, but there are nearly as many Democrats (plus Bernie Sanders) who probably can.

      Perhaps we should take a few deep breaths and let the process play out, as Trump seems to be acting fairly conventionally in most respects, although his choices offend quite a few, mostly of the progressive bent.

      1. Captain Badmouth

        Re: Conflicts of interest

        "It might be argued that Republicans cannot be counted upon to ask the questions,"

        John McCain might be the exception that proves the rule there.

    3. Archtech Silver badge

      Re: Conflicts of interest

      How many of Obama's cabinet have business interests in Ukraine? Apart from the obvious case of Hunter Biden, of course.

      http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/09/world/europe/corruption-ukraine-joe-biden-son-hunter-biden-ties.html?_r=0

  31. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    DNC Staffer

    "as well as hundreds of other emails from the Democratic National Committee (DNC)."

    I though it was pretty well established those came from a DNC staffer whose murder remains unsolved.

    1. Captain Badmouth

      Re: DNC Staffer

      Link?

      1. Archtech Silver badge

        Re: DNC Staffer

        http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3732239/Did-murdered-DNC-staffer-leak-20-000-party-emails-Conspiracy-theories-abound-Wikileaks-steps-forward-offer-20k-mystery-death-27-year-old.html

        A four-word Google search and, 10 seconds later...

        Do please try to keep up.

        1. Captain Badmouth

          Re: DNC Staffer

          I meant a proper link, not a Daily fail clickbait.

  32. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

    Trump was very unlikely to approve such a review himself.

    But surely the man who claimed the entire process was rigged against him and when he lost he'd force an investigation into the whole process because he'd simply not accept the result.

    Funny how all of a sudden he's telling others to just accept the result because it was all fair an above board. Now, who was it said the other side are expects at playing the victim? ISTM that Trump was playing the victim card long before the results were because he never expected to win, hence not being ready to deal with the worlds leaders when he did win and causing a few ruffled feathers.

  33. martinusher Silver badge

    Maybe hacked from Russia but not necessarily by Russia

    Currently our media's working overtime to portray Russia as the Bad Guy -- revelation after revelation all pointing to the Evil Putin. In the US allegations extend to more than Wikileaks -- apparently they've been hacking the actual election systems themselves.

    A bit of commonsense is desperately needed here. First of all, if anyone's into leaking emails then the NSA is well placed to do the deed. Unfortunately they've been a bit lax with their security so a lot of their tools got out into the wild. These are going to turn up everywhere, quite possibly in Russia simply because Russia seems to have a very active hacking community. Since the sole reason for accusing the Russian state of hacking is that "it was sufficiently sophisticated that only a state actor could do it" the conclusion that I'd draw is that the allegations are more hot air than substantive -- the DNC might have been hacked from Russia but they probably weren't hacked by Russia.

  34. Gravis Ultrasound

    It's nice to see that the Dems and Obama finally take cyber security seriously (when DNC is attacked).

    I wish they had begun caring about the issue earlier though....it is a scandal how Obama's Office of Personell Managment lost 22.5 million (!) confidential background check data files to hackers.

    I remember Obama had to pressed just a single person's resignation as a consequens of this cyber-security scandal. Now, it's different, the Party has been hit and the Dems minds are focussed.

    1. Captain Badmouth

      @Gravis Ultrasound

      Lack of security does not seem to be the preserve of any govt. or political party atm.

    2. tom dial Silver badge

      Given the state of previous OPM information assurance practice and Archuleta's relatively brief tenure as director, her dismissal was a more or less standard example of punishing the innocent.

  35. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    its *PRESUMPTIVE* president elect trump

    trump is not president elect until the electoral college votes on december 19th, until then it is presumed that trump has 270 votes in the college which makes him the presumptive president elect. college voters may vote their conscience, by and large they are not bound to vote their pledge. trump claimed millions of votes in the general election were fraudulent "I won the popular vote if you deduct the millions of people who voted illegally [twitter] 12:30 PM - 27 Nov 2016" that being the case there should be a national audit of the vote, which could prove interesting considering pennsylvania for example has no paper trail for votes and is probably not reliably auditable, usa in general has issues with voter identity and some states are known to use corruptible voting machines, without an audit the veracity of this election and future ones will become ever more debatable russian involvement or not

    1. tom dial Silver badge

      Re: its *PRESUMPTIVE* president elect trump

      An upvote for correctness as to US presidential election procedures. The popular vote, irrespective of who might have won a plurality. Abraham Lincoln was elected with a large electoral college majority, but only about 40% of the popular vote (it was a plurality, though). It is extremely unlikely that enough electors to change the outcome will vote against their pledges, and in many cases against their state law. The probability of that is effectively zero given that nearly all of those who vote for Trump (or Clinton) will do so fully in accord with their consciences.

      The auditability, or lack of it, for electronic voting machines has practically nothing to do with whether or not they have a paper trail. Indeed, such a paper trail may only increase the ambiguity, since the laws may specify incompletely or ambiguously what is to be done if the tape from a machine differs from the contents of a memory card that records show came from the same machine. In practice, the cards (and if present, the tapes) are separated from the machine after completion of voting and passed from hand to hand several times before delivery to a central location for vote tabulation. There is an audit trail documenting the chain of custody, but it is not impossible that it could, by intent or more likely error, be damaged.

      If the audit trail (and secure custody of all equipment) is complete, however, it is possible in principle to determine that the software in the machine that held the card (and printed the tape, if applicable) either were or were not in agreement. Not easy, and not cheap, but possible.

      Auditing to determine whether only legally authorized people voted, however, is in many states impossible, by law or by federal court requirement and would be extremely difficult in the remainder.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: its *PRESUMPTIVE* president elect trump

      Talk about fake news ! Most Voting machines are not connected to the internet at all but are stand-alone systems. That would make hacking them a huge task with dedicated people travelling from site to site to actually do the "hack"; and absent widespread reports of teams of people travelling around to do this, it's not exactly very likely is it ?

      This is a classic disinformation campaign designed to undermine Trump as President right from the start; and I'd bet real money that the DNC and Clinton campaign are the ones behind these "anonymous leaks" with their media lapdogs happily playing along.

      Even if (and that is an if) the Russians were involved in leaking the eMails from Podesta and the DNC, one could consider that a public service given what they were up to. And despite the attempts by the DNC machine to imply that some documents were doctored, it is now apparent that there was no fakes, all the eMails were genuine and the squalid corruption revealed was very, very, real. There was no need to doctor the eMails, the reality was bad enough.

    3. steve 124

      Re: its *PRESUMPTIVE* president elect trump

      LOL, I'm going to presume that the 270+ electors that ARE required to vote party lines with their states are going to do so (since they'll presume to go to jail if they don't) and I'll assume that you'll be dealing with our properly elected President, just like the 44 before him.

      But you know, since the Dems are so keen on auditing, I think it would be interesting to audit the bank accounts associated with ALL the electors (especially those who went against their states lines (in those states that don't require them to) and some of those who have publicly said they will be changing their vote. I wonder if any large deposits have been made in the last few months (this is pretty well known to happen with electors, the little whores).

      So, if it makes you sleep better, PRESUME that the Don won't take office in January...

  36. Ilmarinen

    Oh look, a (Russian) Squirrel !

    Much more interesting than those boring old emails.

    1. ecofeco Silver badge

      Re: Oh look, a (Russian) Squirrel !

      3 investigations and no wrong doing found.

      Beating a dead horse IS boring.

      1. TAJW

        Re: Oh look, a (Russian) Squirrel !

        No wrongdoing found? You are somewhat confused. The FBI said they would not suggest prosecution, but certainly there was wrong doing found. Classified emails being sent by unsecure means is NOT legal. Denial will not make your desire true.

  37. Milton Silver badge

    Play with fire

    I have no faith in the NSA' moral compass—insofar as it appears they lost it many years ago, in the long and dishonourable tradition of large bureaucracies—but no one should doubt their ability as penetrators, thieves, cryptanalysts and potential disruptors. Like any good defender (I use the term to include security agencies, intelligence, military etc) they long since learned the motto about keeping one's powder dry. Or if you prefer a different metaphor, hiding their big stick. Sometimes you have to advertise your strength to potential enemies, but more often than not you actually prefer to hide your most potent abilities. Because, of course, if the s**t hits the fan, you want to have a few aces and nasty surprises ready.

    I strongly suspect that China and Russia have persistently underestimated the damage the US could do to them, if and when it chooses; I would make a sizeable bet that most of the hacking done by those two countries, while embarrassing and occasionally a nuisance, is very small beer compared to what could be unleashed against them.

    NSA has a colossal budget and scoops up many of the best mathematical minds on the planet. Its processing capabilities go well beyond what is ever discussed in the press, I think.

    Russia and China are busy congratulating themselves on sniping from cover, little realising that (a) the cover is largely transparent, but the US prefers to let them pop away, revealing themselves with every shot; and (b) the US has an absolute carpet of mortars and arty lined up behind the hill, out of sight, every tube already zeroed on something important.

    Remember Yamamoto's (possibly apocryphal) quote about awakening a sleeping giant, supposedly after Pearl Harbor?

    Perhaps Putin should ask himself what will happen if he tweaks America's tail once too often.

    1. Archtech Silver badge

      Re: Play with fire

      If you think the NSA has a "moral compass" (whatever that may be) you have a long way to go.

      Decent people have morals. Crooked people gabble about "moral compasses". Just as countries that have a "department of justice" have no justice, and corporations that have a "department of ethics" have no ethics. Oh wait, that's all corporations.

  38. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Whose news was fake news again?

    I don't believe for a second that NSA, CIA or the DoHS would ever publicly admit that the entire nation had been undermined, unless they wanted to go to war with the nation that they accuse of doing the undermining.

    It'd all be funny if it weren't so sad watching the left. It's pretty perverse that they're all having 1970s style reds under the beds fever dreams. Did they want to go to war with Russia that badly?

    1. Captain Badmouth

      I suspect the only reds left in Russia are underground (6') rather than underbed with the current autocratic regime.

      1. Archtech Silver badge

        Not funny, but wrong

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_the_Russian_Federation

  39. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Amusing, all this based on some unsourced "anonymous" leaks supposedly from the CIA. It's not like the WaPo would have any interest in spreading yet more "fake news" would they ?

    This looks to me like all part of a broad strategy by the Democrats to undermine Trump in every way possible; with the "democratic operatives with bylines" in the MSM going along with it showing what faithful little lapdogs they are. And to think they also have been going on about "fake news" without being able to admit that they are the major source of that fakeness.

    1. ecofeco Silver badge

      Well turnabout IS fair play as they say.

  40. MSmith

    Yeah...about that

    So far, we have one state that has confirmed that someone tried to hack their voter database. It seems to have been US Homeland Security that did it. The state of Georgia is rather upset, especially after Homeland Security tried to pressure Georgia into giving Homeland Security access to their systems.

    http://www.thepoliticalinsider.com/confirmed-experts-voting-machines-maryland-illinois-rigged-support-democrats/

    The Michigan recount has been kind of eye-opening. One sealed box of ballots that was reported to the state to contain ~3000 Hillary Clinton votes and a few dozen Donald Trump votes was found to actually contain...50 ballots. Almost none of the boxes from Wayne County Michigan had the same number of ballots as votes reported from those boxes, so they couldn't be recounted and the incorrect vote count legally stands. This county reported almost 95% Hillary Clinton votes, so all of these 'errors' were to Hillary Clinton's favor. There is your Russian hacking. Remember, Wayne County didn't turn in their votes until after the rest of the states votes had been counted. Before they answered the question "How many votes were cast for Hillary Clinton?" they asked "How many votes does she need?".

    1. Potemkine Silver badge

      Re: Yeah...about that

      http://www.thepoliticalinsider.com

      Seems to be as reliable as the Onion

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Yeah...about that

        @Potemkine So a liberal social worker running his own personal opinion website called madrigalmaniac criticizing thepoliticalinsider over one story and a couple extreme comments made on same story is your 'gotcha' that they're no more reliable than The Onion?? Surely you can do better than that.

      2. Archtech Silver badge

        Re: Yeah...about that

        http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2016/12/05/recount-unrecountable/95007392/

        "Michigan’s largest county voted overwhelmingly for Democratic candidate Hillary Clinton, but officials couldn’t reconcile vote totals for 610 of 1,680 precincts during a countywide canvass of vote results late last month.

        "Most of those are in heavily Democratic Detroit, where the number of ballots in precinct poll books did not match those of voting machine printout reports in 59 percent of precincts, 392 of 662".

        Also see:

        http://www.wnd.com/2016/12/recount-uncovers-serious-fraud-in-detroit/?cat_orig=politics

        It's well worth reading.

  41. Winkypop Silver badge
    Flame

    Trump is a looney

    But it's Pence that truly worries me!

    Now HE is a hard-core right-wing nut-job.

    Donny is just a lazy peacock.

    1. NANOTECH

      Re: Trump is a looney

      How about you define a hard core right wing nut job for those of us without hate in their hearts or blind loyalty to the liberal liars. Sour grapes will always remain sour, so get over it, you will never see another liberal liar in white house. PERIOD

  42. packetguy

    21 Days is not enough time for a real report

    Which means Obama aims to produce a bogus one. And with the veil of CIA secrecy to hide from accountability, nobody will be able to challenge it before its goal -- scaring the willies out of Liberals -- is achieved.

    Diabolical, I call it.

    1. Captain Badmouth

      Re: 21 Days is not enough time for a real report

      I would assume all the reports are there already, they just need collating into a whole.

  43. Errolialus

    What a load of rubbish! Can't these idiots think of a better excuse? Talk about not accepting the results of an election!

    The Wikileaks did nothing but show the absolute criminality of the Democat Party!

    What a bunch of asholes including Obama or whatever his real name is.

  44. bish

    Where's the satire?

    These comments raised a few chuckles, until I realised they weren't jokes. My opinion of El Reg readers is damaged, possibly beyond repair, by reading so many partisan knuckle-draggers furiously point their fingers at each other. Whether Russia, or anyone else, hacked the US election or not, the people who voted in it seem distinctly incapable of taking a step back and behaving like people with any right to democracy. Thank heavens I live in the UK, where... well, yeah, nothing - never mind. Why has the English speaking world become so stupid? Are the Russians hacking our water supply or something?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Where's the satire?

      Was that your attempt at satire, more pointing fingers at the Russians?

    2. TAJW

      Re: Where's the satire?

      Actually, the U.S. is not a Democracy, but a Constitutional Republic. As to knuckle dragging ... here in the U.S. folks have a right to say what they want, and have a say in who manages the country and what taxes we pay.

      We had a tea party in the Boston harbor a long time ago to establish exactly how we felt about that. Then kicked some butts to make it stick.

      :)

  45. eric.verhulst(Altreonic)

    Sure, the USA never interfered

    Desperate tactics from loosers. Emails are being hacked all the time. But the point is, how often did the USA not intervene? How dictators did they not put in power?

    1. Captain Badmouth
      Headmaster

      Re: Sure, the USA never interfered

      Desperate spelling from losers?

  46. Potemkine Silver badge

    This is all BS

    Donald not-the-duck Trump is sure Russia didn't do anything wrong, his friend Vladimir told him so

    1. Taprisiot Madness

      Re: This is all BS

      "Donald not-the-duck Trump "

      Well, with his opinion of China, he's definitely not Peking Duck.

  47. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Radio 4

    Is the only BBC output I listen to now due to the constant drip feed of

    "no proof but we think it was Russia",blah blah "the CIA are pointing to Russia after the American Election".

    "The CIA have given no proof but surely it must be Russia or we would not mention Russia so often in news reports!"

    I have shouted for the first time at the radio "OH Fuck off!"

    Prove it or get on with life.

  48. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

    I'm sure there is a lot of fishy stuff going on.

    But there can be no question about the fact that a lot of US voters are dumber than a lamp post.

    Just have a look at the Trump voters and campaigners from the south (youtube, if you can stomach it).

    JFC!!!

    Have you seen the various things that actually aired on TV in the US about Hillary? And the dumbnuts soaking it up as if it was fact? It's beyond belief. Perhaps the US electorate will soon rival IS in idiocy.

  49. Byham

    Ethics or Politics difficult choice for some

    The DNC information was leaked, not hacked. The Russian meme was invented and run with. The CIA is run by a political appointee who will report/leak what is good for the Democrats - imagine MI-6 being run by Alastair Campbell for PM Blair. As has been pointed out leaving traces of Russian malware is something that a non-Russian 'hack' may deliberately do - or even one of the politicized investigators might do. Unfortunately, all the federal agencies and the media in the US are completely politicized and see their political aims as more important than anything else, definitely more important than ethics.

  50. Jeff 13

    So F**king What!

    Even if it was a Russian hack, all it did was expose the truth about the DNC and Hillary. If it swayed the election, it was only because it gave an insight about the party and candidates. Neither the DNC or Hillary ever denied the factual contents of the emails.

  51. Reg T.

    It Was The Video

    The video of Ms. Clinton accompanied by her Nubian Manservant carrying the little jab of diazepam at-the-ready, and waiting for her medical van, her going into a stupor, being held up by SS staff and then stuffed in the medical van floor head-first, like a log (cadaver) which turned the tide. And, seeing the almost instantaneous look-alike Hillary (#1 or #2) prancing down the Avenue was another insurmountable obstacle to reality.

    Amazing that the Russian infiltrated the SS and planted the Nubian right under the noses of the DNC. Probably shape-shifters. And then the Russian got the corrupt Capitalist Media to publish the video. Scary!

    It was the damn video! Ask Susan Rice.

  52. Cipher

    The Russians love Hillary, she, thru the Clinton Foundation/State Dept arranged for the Uranium One sale of 20% of US Uranium stockpiles to them.

    Anybody notice that from the start the veracity of the emails was never challenged? This is all deflection.

    And most likely from a disgruntled Bernie leaner at the DNC, say a Seth Rich...

  53. UncleZoot

    Where was the NSA?

    Since the beginning of the Patriot Act, the NSA monitors any and all foreign net traffic and stores the results in the super secret data center. One would think if these supposed hacks were of foreign nature, that the NSA would have spotted the intrusion.

    As an American, I'm ticked that the monies extorted by government for these programs is either being wasted on boondoggles or they've reached critical mass and can't mine what they've collected.

    This would be the same NSA that collected the Hillary emails but fines ignorance. The same NSA that has had two employees go rouge with terabytes of data, yet not observed?

  54. NANOTECH

    FACTS ARE FACTS - BS IS BS

    When you hear this BS it is almost funny that anyone would believe it. CIA has been proven over and over again to be wrong, and for good reason, they use assumptions, speculation, hunch, then throw in maybe, could have, possible, perhaps, nothing but BS and under the current fraud in white house, they white washed and hid facts which is no different than lying, just as the liberal liar in white house has done over and over again to WE THE PEOPLE, he LIED. The Russians didn't want Trump, the wild card who is shaking up the world, they wanted another coward wimp in white house, and HiLIARy and her joke of a Russian reset button demonstrated how stupid she was, couldn't even get the word reset correct, so Pukin certainly wanted her over Trump, so this is all BS perpetuated by anonymous CIA sourses, nothing confirmed, but widely being reported by the liberal liar lame stream media. PERIOD

  55. TAJW

    Hmm ... Donald Trump attacking Union Leaders? I think they said some particularly nasty stuff about him .. several times .. before he finally retaliated with a comment that basically said the union leader wasn't doing his job in taking care of the union members, which is pretty much the deal for most unions in the U.S. The unions are all about making money for the union leaders, not so much the members.

    I agree that often Donald Trump tweets aggressively, but in this case, it was hardly Trump attacking the union leader....it was the other way around. And why, when Trump was trying to protect union jobs? What in the heck was Jones thinking?

    I think he was just miffed that all the money they spent on the Clinton campaign just went up in smoke. He would be better off working into the new paradigm and supporting Trump in every way he can.

  56. Wayland Bronze badge

    "The emails contained some embarrassing revelations"

    Arranging to have sex with children in a hot tub is embarrassing. No one should have those sorts of personal details exposed. Thankfully the real media are protecting the Podesta's privacy, unlike the out of control Fake Media. Roll on the day when pedophilia has the same status as other sexual orientations. It's such a tragedy that Hillary lost.

  57. Wayland Bronze badge

    Did the Russians hack the voting machines?

    Reports of the vote switching after it's been entered. Could anyone hack the machine to make it do that?

    1. Bernard M. Orwell Silver badge

      Re: Did the Russians hack the voting machines?

      "..Could anyone hack the machine..?"

      Yes, and it may have been done before:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcxGGnmRQAs

      (testimony of coder before the Senate)

  58. steve 124

    Good to see Obama is continuing his "smooth and peaceful transition of power" for our new President. What a swell guy.

  59. kraftdinner

    Cold war finally over?

    Well, isn't this a good thing? America and Russia finally getting along....

  60. DToma

    The Democrats keep looking for somebody to blame for Clinton's loss, other than who they should be looking at. Admit it, Democrats, if you had only pushed Bernie Sanders instead of Clinton, there's a good chance that a Democrat would have won the White House. Clinton was a horrible candidate.

  61. Captain Badmouth

    Mitch McConnell

    has entered the debate, expressing full confidence in the CIA findings. Just now on BBC news.

  62. ProgrammerForHire

    evidence

    "Dear mr CIA guy,

    I leave this here to tell you that in no way, absolutely no way I did any hacking on this machine.

    Whatever anyone tells you, I am not guilty.

    With love,

    Ivan"

    Yeah, unless they find something like this, I doubt any hacking evidence will point to Russians with any degree of certainty

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