back to article Busted Windows 8, 10 update blamed for breaking Brits' DHCP

Folks using Windows 10 and 8 on BT and Plusnet networks in the UK are being kicked offline by a mysterious software bug. Computers running the Microsoft operating systems are losing network connectivity due to what appears to be a problem with DHCP. Specifically, it seems some Windows 10 and 8 boxes can no longer reliably …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    O rly...

    I've an Asus router sitting behind my BT router and I've no trouble at all. Perhaps BT bought their routers with a huge discount and no standards.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: O rly...

      Sorry, but you failed. Double NATting a system is NOT the same as that system directly connected to the provider network and requesting DHCP addrs from it. Your address is coming from the Asus router. Still, good on you for not subscribing to Talk Talk, like so many other shitheads in the UK.

      Do try putting your host on the BT side of your service and let us know how that goes?

      I do the same thing on my production home network; comtrend box from the provider, and either a 1st gen Airport Extreme, or my "new" test/hacking network's WRT54GL. Nothing goes in betwixt, except when checking for localized ARP cache poisoning and checking the outbound connection and provider router settings.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: O rly...

        Production home network - really? Double Natting - seriously? This makes no sense to what this issue is about.

        The home gateway on the router to the provider network - as we all know - comes from the home gateway from the radius profile and PPP negotiates it without DHCP. Unless BT run their home gateways and routers on Windows 10 that's not the point. DHCP runs on the internal interface for the clients, for better or for worse.

        Running a 3rd party router does solve one bit of the problem - whether it's in the production tier 3 home network or the DMZ in your shed. Seems a little harsh to dismiss quite a fair precaution in my mind with a lot of technical knownot putdown on the back of it.

        1. itzman

          Re: O rly...

          AIUI the issue is windows 10 and the BT router not playing nice on DHCP, so using another brand of router OR not using windows 10 solves the issue.

          1. Version 1.0 Silver badge

            Re: O rly...

            If DHCP fails when the client is pulling an address from a BT router, but works when it pulls an address from a non-BT box ... that tends to suggest that the problem is with the BT kit, not the client.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: O rly...

              "that tends to suggest that the problem is with the BT kit, not the client."

              And given my experience with the quality of the BT kit, last one I had I changed the network from 192.168.1.x to 192.168.0.x to go with my antique setup, only to find the routing dialogs were hard coded to only accept 192.168.1.x addresses. I would certainly be focussing on "the BT kit".

              It got replaced with an OpenReach Fibre modem and a proper router.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: O rly...

                This is nothing to do with BT. Microsoft has B0rken Windows' DHCP client.

                1. Dazed and Confused Silver badge

                  Re: O rly...

                  Is everyone sure that this is actually a problem limited to BT routers?

                  My wife's W10 PC has been suffering from network disconnects all this week. It's losing it's IP address and we aren't using a BT router. The DHCP addresses are coming from a Linux server and I can read the logs on there and my box is offering the DHCP info and it just isn't being taken up. It's only affected 1 PC, none of our other ones seem to be affected.

                  1. Youngone Silver badge

                    Re: O rly...

                    I'm pretty sure this is a problem with the Microsoft Realtek drivers, (also maybe Broadcom).

                    I can fix it on my Win10 box by installing the latest Realtek driver, but Windows update replaces that with the Microsoft one every time.

                  2. Naselus

                    Re: O rly...

                    "Is everyone sure that this is actually a problem limited to BT routers?"

                    I'd suggest there's about a zero % chance that it's limited to BT routers. What will have happened is that MS, in their infinite wisdom, have decided that some DHCP option or other is 20 years old and now obsolete... without bothering to check if any brand of kit is still using it. Which implies that any router using said DHCP option will not work. It's a bit like if you've ever tried to change out a Sky router - you need to activate DHCP option 61 on the outside interface to connect to their network, which most modern routers don't bother with, so you're stuck using the (unimaginably shitty) Sky kit.

                    The proximate cause of this one is MS's error - they should've checked before rolling out. But the underlying cause is telcos insisting on shipping really decrepit equipment to their customers and not replacing it in a reasonably prompt manner.

                    1. Anonymous Coward
                      Anonymous Coward

                      Re: O rly...

                      Please clarify.

                      Either the required functionality is in the relevant RFCs and any competent set of vendors should implement it properly.

                      Or it's not in the RFCs and no competent vendor should rely on it.

            2. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

              Re: O rly...

              "If DHCP fails when the client is pulling an address from a BT router, but works when it pulls an address from a non-BT box ... that tends to suggest that the problem is with the BT kit, not the client."

              No. It tells you that either the client or the server (or both!) is not fully standards complient such that in combination, they don't work.

              As it happens, I got home yesterday to my wife telling me her Win10 laptop can't connect to the network. I checked. It sees the WiFi but has a 169.*.*.* address. I tell Win10 to do run it's diags/fix thingy. It still fails. I run CMD and do an IPCONFIG /renew. Fails. Try IPCONFIG /release, IPCONFIG shows ip address details gon, use IPCONFIG to get new address and now it works. We're on VM and the Win10 laptop connects and gets DHCP from a re-purposed SamKnows monitoring router running DD-WRT. This has not been an issue once since she installed Win10. An odd coincidence? A windows 10 issue? Or does DD-WRT have the same "problem" as the BT/Plusnet routers?

              1. david 12 Bronze badge

                Re: O rly...

                >No. It tells you that either the client or the server (or both!) is not

                >fully standards complient such that in combination, they don't work.

                You have the idea that fully standards complient combinations always majgically work? ROFL

                I take it that you don't actually have much to do with writing or using standards?

              2. LDS Silver badge

                Re: O rly...

                It could be a combination of both. Once I had a issue with a Netgear wifi device which wasn't able to get an IP from an old 3Com router which worked without issues with any other device.

                Luckily my access point allowed for capturing a dump of the network traffic. It turned out the router was sending DHCP answers which contained more options (some unusual, but fully RFC compliant, like 12, "hostname") than the (open source) library used by Netgear could handle, being badly coded and implying a DHCP offer packet could not be larger than n bytes.

                I fixed it using a Raspberry PI as a DHCP server turning off the router DHCP server.

                I would not be surprised if someone at Microsoft "optimized" the DHCP code without actually knowing enough of the DHCP protocol. Many young developers believe reading the original specification and implementing full support is a waste of time.

            3. AJ MacLeod

              Re: O rly...

              It may suggest that BT's routers are to blame, but I've also seen this problem on third party routers in the past few days.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: O rly...

        Sorry, but you failed. That's clearly what OP was saying.

  2. Dwarf Silver badge

    Yet another reason to be glad of not being a Windows 10 user or a BT user.

    Seriously though - DHCP - how hard can it be ??

    1. AndrueC Silver badge
      Facepalm

      Seriously though - DHCP - how hard can it be ??

      Too difficult for Logitech apparently.

      I had to give my Harmony Hub a static IP address as well. This was last month so they've apparently not fixed it yet.

      1. Jeffrey Nonken Silver badge

        "I had to give my Harmony Hub a static IP address as well. This was last month so they've apparently not fixed it yet."

        Oh, is that what happened? After I tried restarting a couple times I reconfigured it into the bin. Was more fiddly than doing things by hand. Lucky I got it at a discount.

        That was months ago, though. You say this was last month? Hmmm. Maybe my kit just died.

        1. AndrueC Silver badge
          Happy

          The original forum post was from 2015. I installed mine last month - so over a year and Logitech have still not fixed it. Mine worked but would periodically go into a fugue state for ten minutes. Giving it a static IP address fixed that. I still wish they had redesigned the remote but it's working well now.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Broken update?

    Then just roll back the individual update that went wonky & that will fix the issue!

    Oh wait. It's Windows 10 & the "open up & say AH!" method of "fixing" things.

    Webcams, wireless, & DHCP oh my!

    1. H in The Hague Silver badge

      Re: Broken update?

      Which is why I've just ordered another PC with Windo 7, while I can get it. :) (And must remember to go and play with that Linux box I set up earlier in the year.)

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Broken update?

        This "update now bitch, you're helpless" mentality is a serious fucking problem and Microsoft is going to have to address this issue. The internet is swelling with pages describing update problems with Windows 10, and quite rightfully. It's no longer a debate if Windows 10 has approached updates in a broken manner, it's a sad fact.

        These Windows update problems are making Mac and Linux look like advanced operating systems, when in reality Mac and Linux are just doing what their users expect, nothing advanced about that.

  4. I J Ellis
    Facepalm

    Our Customers Never Believe Us

    Arrive on-site, spend 15-20 mins checking the obvious then tell Joe Bloggs "It's because you've got Windows 10 and use BT broadband". They'll proceed to tell you, in excruciating detail, how their phone/tablet/laptop/neighbour are all fine & then look at you suspiciously whilst impugning your technical ability & parentage! I'm framing this... ;-)

    1. Jack of Shadows Silver badge

      Re: Our Customers Never Believe Us

      {sigh} When something like that may require an intervention, I've already given a heads up to all the potential suffering individuals. Saves wear and tear on both sides. As for the netsh fix, been having to use it since about Windows XP in one form or another. Microsoft has regular teething problems with networking so much that ipconfig/all requires no thought at all.

    2. Dwarf Silver badge

      Re: Our Customers Never Believe Us

      1000 upvotes (if only I could).Hope you will settle for one.

      This is precisely the reason I don't provide support for Windows 10 and have moved to other platforms.

      Somehow it becomes your problem for Microsoft's dodgy software.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Our Customers Never Believe Us

      "...then look at you suspiciously whilst impugning your technical ability & parentage!"

      Ah, you've evidently met either my girlfriend or some spiritual twin of hers. Every time her work laptop fails to connect to a keyboard, mouse or the same router everything else in the house is perfectly happy with, or her VPN just randomly drops, I get exactly that look.

      1. itzman
        Paris Hilton

        Re: Our Customers Never Believe Us

        Ah, you've evidently met either my girlfriend or some spiritual twin of hers. Every time her work laptop fails to connect to a keyboard, mouse or the same router everything else in the house is perfectly happy with, or her VPN just randomly drops, I get exactly that look.

        Is her name 'Cortana'??

    4. JimboSmith Silver badge

      Re: Our Customers Never Believe Us

      My family and friends when I'm telling them to do something over the phone to fix their kit are often the same. One memorable comment from a sibling was "But it won't work if I do that!" My response was along the lines of "Oh yes it will and remind me which one of us has the word "engineer" in their job title?"

  5. andy265

    Doesn't seem to be just BT and Plusnet, we've had customers with the same problem on others ISPs over the last few days.

    1. diodesign (Written by Reg staff) Silver badge

      Re: andy265

      We'd love to hear more - if you want, drop us a line to news@theregister.co.uk with details of other ISPs.

      C.

      1. Humpty McNumpty

        Re: andy265

        I've encountered this on 2 machines at work this week. Our ISP is BT but we use our own Draytek ADSL router.

        1. JetSetJim Silver badge

          Re: andy265

          I'm seeing the same symptoms on my wife's win10 box connected to a gigaclear router. Fixed by clicking the "connect to network" button in network settings, but no idea if it will come back...

      2. Jonathan Smythe

        Re: same problem

        I've just dealt with three computers in the last couple of days. The first of which was a TalkTalk router; when I first looked I thought it might have been related to the mirai worm going around, but then I had a couple of others that were on BT hubs.

        Edit: on two occasions I tried setting a fixed IP address in the Windows IPv4 configuration, re-enabling DCHP after then appeared to work.

      3. Thought About IT

        Re: andy265

        I've seen the same problem on a Windows 10 PC connected to a TalkTalk HG635 SuperRouter. Had to reboot both the PC and the router to get it back online.

      4. This post has been deleted by its author

      5. Gio Ciampa

        Re: andy265

        Virgin for one... see virg.in/win10

    2. Jim Willsher

      Agreed, it's not just BT. I manage a dozen networks, all using Zen. We have Cisco 877 or Cisco 887 on them all, and we've had this problem for a few weeks now. The first time it happened, I even had a desktop PC couriered to me as I couldn't use teamviewer to access it.

      We had three on Monday, two Tuesday and two yesterday, at four different sites.

      Running those commands does fix it, but you can only run them if you are a local admin, which our users aren't....

      We actually reckon it's solely a windows problem, unrelated to any router, because all our sites use SBS 2011 or 2012 R2 as the DHCP provider. Our bets are on a recent windows update.

      It's a PITA.

      In all our cases, they are all win 10, upgraded from Win 7.

      1. arctic_haze Silver badge

        I'll correct that for you:

        In all our cases, they are all win 10, downgraded from Win 7.

      2. The Brave Sir Robin

        Not ISP related

        https://community.spiceworks.com/topic/1947168-dhcp-not-working-on-windows-10?page=1#entry-6448641

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Correction

        You mean 'downgraded' from Win 7.

    3. Ian Emery Silver badge

      I know someone on SKY getting this problem in Worcestershire - might be a coincidence, but it started about the same time.

      As for Win8/8.1/10 users, I will revert to my default Simpsons mode: HA HA!!

    4. itzman

      iSP relaed?

      we've had customers with the same problem on others ISPs over the last few days.

      It appears to be related to the brand of router BT etc use. Others may use similar.

    5. Mickey Porkpies

      Virgin Media getting it on mass - had the issue with the 50mb business broadband (Netgear) router. Windows 10 seems to be getting it regularly and we have seen some of our Digital Sceens die due to same issue (Win 8) all set static now. :-(

  6. Z80

    OK here...for now?

    I'm on Windows 10 using Plusnet though a BT Homehub 4R and things are working fine. There is a restart pending following some updates though...

    The only one not for Office is KB3201845

    1. Solmyr ibn Wali Barad

      Re: OK here...for now?

      KB3201845 is a cumulative update changing god-knows-what.

      According to this German page it really could be the culprit. ISPs in mention are Swisscom and UPC.

      www.notebookcheck.com/Kein-Internet-nach-KB3201845-Wieder-Probleme-mit-einem-Windows-Update.187280.0.html

      1. nemenator

        Re: OK here...for now?

        Removing kb3201845 worked for me, on VirginMedia.

  7. fidodogbreath Silver badge

    MS appreciates our alpha testers

    Dear customer,

    Good news! Thanks to your unpaid alpha testing, this DHCP patch will be fixed before it is released to Enterprise and CBB customers.

    Unfortunately, your PC will not be able to receive the corrected patch because it can no longer get an IP address. We are aware that this will inconvenience a small number of our users. However, awareness does not equal caring, so you're on your own figuring out a workaround. We suggest using your phone to search our user forums, where other disgruntled customers have shared random solutions that probably will not work.

    Thank you again for alpha and beta testing our software. We hope you're enjoying your "free" copy of Windows 10.

    Your pal, SatNad

    1. a_yank_lurker Silver badge

      Re: MS appreciates our alpha testers

      The release had better alpha grade when you give it to the alpha testers aka the great unwashed masses.

  8. Len Goddard

    Confused

    So confused that this post was nonsense. I realised that in time but I can't figure out how to not post so I offer this abject self-abasement.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Paris Hilton

      Re: Confused

      Eh?

      Refrain from clicking on the "Submit" button?

      Confused too now :-|

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Confused

      "[...] but I can't figure out how to not post so I offer this abject self-abasement."

      Click the "back" icon on your browser to return to the previous El Reg page. Usually(?) it is a left-pointing arrow in the top left corner of your browser tab.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Confused

      So confused that this post was nonsense. I realised that in time but I can't figure out how to not post so I offer this abject self-abasement.

      Have you tried switching if off and on again?

      :)

      1. Professor Clifton Shallot

        Re: Confused

        "Have you tried switching if off and on again?"

        Perhaps switching it off and not switching it back on again might be better in this case.

  9. David Roberts Silver badge

    Interesting demographic

    Is it just that BT and Plusnet are the major ISP providers, or is it router specific?

    If I understand this, it has nothing to do with the WAN side of the router, but is an issue between the DHCP server on the LAN side and W8.1 and W10 PCs using DHCP.

    So unless everyone is failing it may be a bug/feature of those specific routers.

    Haven't noticed anything on the two W8.1 laptops here.

    Using a Buffalo router though.

    1. Adam 52 Silver badge

      Re: Interesting demographic

      I see it with a TP-Link router and Windows 10. Windows 7, Ubuntu and Android are fine.

      Saw this article too late though, Amazon are delivering a new wireless router tomorrow because I thought it most likely a router issue.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Interesting demographic

        > Saw this article too late though, Amazon are delivering a new wireless router tomorrow because I thought it most likely a router issue.

        Send it back (within 7 days) under the distance selling regulations.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Interesting demographic

          > "Send it back (within 7 days) under the distance selling regulations."

          14 days ;) (but will cost you the postage)

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Interesting demographic

      Re: "Is it just that BT and Plusnet are the major ISP providers, or is it router specific?"

      All you need to know is that round here, BT / Plusnet (and probably TalkTalk) are in league with the Russians, or Iranians, Or North Koreans or something.

      ;)

      1. Loud Speaker

        Re: Interesting demographic

        You may be right about BT/PlusNet, but I think Talk-Talk are in league with the devil.

  10. Gert Leboski

    Surely a common router/firmware incompatibility?

    The Windows clients are not working with their local DHCP provider, which is on the LAN interface(s) of their domestic router.

    DHCP isn't hard, but there is quite a bit that can be set there that usually isn't.

    Are these routers putting out a field:value that something in the Windows patch is choking on? It wouldn't be the first time that Microsoft have tried to rewrite the rules of basic networking or web protocols to suit their own means, is it?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Surely a common router/firmware incompatibility?

      Certainly fine here, on both W10 and Ubuntu through an AP/router running DD-WRT connected to a Plusnet modem. Looks like a W10/ISP router interaction issue - neither of which would exactly be surprising as the source of the problem.

      1. Gert Leboski

        Re: Surely a common router/firmware incompatibility?

        Well, a VM customer below reports the same DHCP issues with Windows 10. Possibly timings on response time?

        Totally unaffected here, but I have OpenBSD providing DHCP over LAN and a Unifi AC-Pro access point plugged onto that.

      2. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

        Re: Surely a common router/firmware incompatibility?

        Two Important questions to ask:-

        Have you upgraded your {insert router device/ISP etc} device recently?

        Has Microsoft forced an update to W10 on you in recent weeks?

        Then ask yourself what has changed and who is the more likely culprit given that other (No MS) operating systems seem to be immune from this....

        IMHO it is a case of "Hey Redmond, Fix it NOW"

  11. Lost in Cyberspace
    Unhappy

    Not just BT

    I deal exclusively with home users. It's been a tough week explaining where the restart button is. So far this week:

    20 on BT. 5 on TalkTalk. 2 on Sky.

    (EE have also put a notice on their help pages).

    19 had McAfee installed. 2 had Avast installed.

    Most of my customers were blaming their ISPs, some have had other technically-minded users waste hours tinkering with settings - until I explained it was more likely to be Windows 10... something is crashing and due to the 'fast boot' feature, a shut down won't clear it, whereas a restart will. It's been a long week.

    1. Jonathan Smythe
      Facepalm

      Re: Not just BT

      Have you tried restarting your computer?

      Yes

      I mean, restarting. Not Shut down, restart.

      Um...?

      Look, here, next to shutdown, is restart.

      Oh!

      Yeah, fast boot has been the cause of a number of callouts for me, when something goes wrong/crashes (maybe a driver?) that doesn't get properly restarted during a "shutdown".

      I end up thorougly confusing my users trying to explain that since Windows 8, "shutdown" doesn't actually shut down as much of the computer as "restart" does

      1. password123

        Re: Not just BT

        "Fast startup" killed me too, [2 machines on Virgin] and is *probably* root cause of DHCP issue. [Broke my BIOS, couldn't enter it, startup slowed to crawl]

        BTW, for other readers, find the option hidden away here, Control Panel\Hardware and Sound\Power Options\System Settings "Turn on fast startup (recommended)"

        So Microsoft : Shutdown means Shutdown

        oh, I forgot, they obviously won't understand that, how about (IMHO) ...

        * Don't disable normal users primary fix method of "turning it off and on again" with a broken, hidden, partial hibernation feature in order to save a few seconds on boot time (perhaps).

        * Make it opt in, for those that want it, and obvious what is happening at shutdown and startup time.

        * Measure the performance gains/losses for a newly selected "Fast Startuper" and act appropriately.

        1. Glenturret Single Malt

          Re: Not just BT

          BTW, for other readers, find the option hidden away here, Control Panel\Hardware and Sound\Power Options\System Settings "Turn on fast startup (recommended)"

          Not in my version of Windows 10. Control Panel/Power Options then Choose what the power button does/Change settings that are currentlu unavailable.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Not just BT

        "I end up thorougly confusing my users trying to explain that since Windows 8, "shutdown" doesn't actually shut down as much of the computer as "restart" does"

        Are you saying shutdown is now just hibernating and not shutting down? I ask because I shutdown my PC before I turn the mains power off. I'd like to think my PC is being shut down properly before I power it off, and not left in a hibernation mode.

        1. John H Woods Silver badge

          Re: Not just BT

          "I'd like to think my PC is being shut down properly before I power it off" --- soulrideruk

          Hibernate is power-off safe: the state of the O/S is written to disk (whereas "suspend" states require the maintenance of some power to RAM). The problem here is that starting a hibernated system reads the same broken state back from the disk rather than the O/S setting itself up "from scratch"

          1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

            Re: Not just BT

            "The problem here is that starting a hibernated system reads the same broken state back from the disk rather than the O/S setting itself up "from scratch"

            That explains why my wife claiming she'd shutdown her computer and it'd not fixed it then. Thanks, I'd not realised that's what the MS "fastboot" thing does. Next time I'll tell to select restart. Somehow I doubt she'll be able to get her head around ipconfig commands. Maybe I need a script to do that and "Fix Me" icon on the desktop for her.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Not just BT

          Are you saying shutdown is now just hibernating and not shutting down? I ask because I shutdown my PC before I turn the mains power off. I'd like to think my PC is being shut down properly before I power it off, and not left in a hibernation mode.

          At least you prevent the real reason that shutdown isn't: by killing off its power it won't be able to ship your data to Redmond when you're asleep. With Microsoft, it pays to be paranoid. That said, they've royally shot themselves in both feet by buggering up DHCP.

          Even if they take a network stack from people who *know* what they're doing Microsoft manages to get it wrong, which is quite a special talent on its own. Not very helpful, though.

        3. Jonathan Smythe

          Re: Not just BT

          "Are you saying shutdown is now just hibernating and not shutting down? I ask because I shutdown my PC before I turn the mains power off. I'd like to think my PC is being shut down properly before I power it off, and not left in a hibernation mode."

          It's just a product of the phrasing I use to explain to my very-non-technical users - Both Hibernate and Shutdown (when fast startup is enabled) turn off the power - but fast-startup-shutdown actually hibernates some core Windows processes. Call it a semi-hibernate.

          Personally, nowadays I never actually "shut down" my computer. My laptop is always on sleep on the docking station and when on the move, and my PC I hibernate. Starts up much faster and on my laptop saves reopening all my tabs/email/documents/pdfs/explorer windows... Windows update reboot-required frustrates me!

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Not just BT

            Personally, nowadays I never actually "shut down" my computer. My laptop is always on sleep on the docking station and when on the move, and my PC I hibernate.

            Why? I'd assume you've got an SSD as your boot drive on both, so the speed gains of "fast boot" are minimal? Of course, if you're a recidivist still reliant upon spinning rust, then there's no hope anyway.

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Happened on virginmedia today

    My daughter came back from uni today, for Christmas, with her new w10 laptop (not been on my home network before) and it wouldn't connect to the Internet.

    Said it was connected to the router, but not to the Internet. However I couldn't connect to the router admin via the browser.

    A little digging revealed a problem with the ip allocation - it didn't get one from the router (or it did but didn't use it).

    I checked the router dhcp reservations and the laptop wasn't listed there either.

    Restarted the laptop (because off/on does sometimes work), no change.

    Restarted the router (because off/on...), no change.

    ipconfig showed a non lan compatible ip4 address and no subnet mask.

    Reset the WiFi adapter (because why not, and off/on...) and /renew =

    laptop connected to the Internet,

    daughter happy,

    phew, my reputation as tech guru safe. Only 30 minutes wasted.

    Tomorrow it's w10 maintenance day for her laptop. I'd like to nuke it and install Linux but even the chance to play tux racer again (a childhood favourite) isn't tempting her away from the empire. Might dual boot it anyway.

    1. Martin an gof Silver badge

      Re: Happened on virginmedia today

      even the chance to play tux racer again (a childhood favourite) isn't tempting her away from the empire

      Maybe she's worked out that STK is now also available in a Windows version.

      M.

      1. Martin an gof Silver badge
        Facepalm

        Re: Happened on virginmedia today

        STK is now also available in a Windows version

        Umm... sorry, you meant the penguin-sliding-down-a-hill thing, not the cart racing game. I think Tux Racer was made available for Windows, but possibly not as comprehensive as the Linux versions.

        M.

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Has no one taken a network capture on a failing PC using something like Wireshark?

    In my experience XP and W7 can have a similar problem occasionally. Unfortunately W7 apparently no longer has the click option simply to update the lease.

    One problem seen in the past was when a user's laptop moved between locations. The PC did its DHCP request before its network layer was full operational. As it did not see any answer to its DHCP request - then it used the previous gateway address. That was not valid so the PC assigned itself a Microsoft default IP address - and then needed a manual prod to try DHCP again.

    1. jms222

      > Has no one taken a network capture on a failing PC using something like Wireshark?

      Why do that when people who don't know what they're talking about can speculate ? This is the 21st century.

      1. Lee D Silver badge

        Don't be silly - packet captures are the work of the devil.

        I've worked with telephony companies, access control, IT suppliers, etc. and rarely if ever does a packet capture ever get requested, used if supplied, or even understood by them.

        I have a networked sound system in work (a school) that does school bells, etc. It works on Ethernet/PoE. It wouldn't work properly, so I packet-captured and highlighted that it doesn't join multicast groups properly.

        Nobody cared, I just got told to turn to "turn off IGMP snooping" as a default techy script.

        Supplied said packet capture to Cisco because we have cloud managed switches and IGMP snooping is on by default, they took one look and turned it off stating that the devices were just shit and there was nothing else they could do.

        Same again when a SIP trunk wouldn't punch through our network to the Internet no matter what settings we used. Ended up just using another SIP provider that didn't need NAT-proxies, port-exceptions and the like and "just worked" through an ordinary firewall (Gamma). The telephony companies Hipcom shit literally NEVER worked, not even once, not with all the packet captures in the world going back and forth showing that we were sending the packets out and getting fuck-all back. I reset the firewall to blank settings, we plugged in the Gamma SIP address, everything worked with ZERO settings. Guess who got the SIP telephony contract.

        Packet captures are like debug logs and memory dumps. Nobody cares, the one guy who could understand them left the company years ago, so they just stab at the usual answers and blame the customer.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Before I retired my speciality was making sense of very large packet captures.

          There were several occasions when one of our customers was having a problem - that I diagnosed as being in the WAN "cloud" of their third party major network supplier.

          My company then had to send me with my equipment to help the network supplier. Apparently they had no one with reasonable equipment and the knowledge to diagnose what was going wrong in their network.

          It seemed to be a trend after about 2000 for people to guess "the answer" - rather than establishing factual evidence and identifying a root cause.

          1. Howard Long

            Wireshark/network traces

            I still do, been using network traces for decades. It's getting harder though. First, there was the move from hubs (and token ring) to switches (and Ethernet) so you couldn't just sniff all the traffic from another host on the same LAN segment. For some years, I carried around a crappy old hub and a crossover cable (remember those too?) to intercept traffic.

            Nowadays you need to persuade the network guy the SPAN switch ports for you, which can delay things to such an extent that you start installing sniffers on the affected host... which can and does sometimes have its own side effects, such as differences in where the stack is executed in promiscuous mode (NIC or OS).

            Then almost all traffic became TLS/SSL making it more difficult to trace application layer problems from network traces.

            It still has its place, but I use interactive network traces a lot less than I used to because of both the political and the technical challenges around getting it set up in the enterprise. In the development phase I use them much more frequently on the local host.

            They can be exceptionally useful tools. Despite the pervasive use of TLS, often you don't need to know anything about the payload data at all, just seeing the conversation metadata is enough to determine if you have a client-side or server-side problem. I rarely see people use sniffers nowadays though, they're more likely to hit Google.

            As DHCP negotiations are in the clear, it would be easy to identify which side of the conversation was at fault.

            My laptop had the problem this morning, I should've fired up wireshark/netmon. Instead I followed the instructions and rebooted like a good script kiddie, and it fixed it.

            I suspect just a reboot or two fixes it, as I discovered that the update was requesting one, and this is what the nub of the problem is. The update itself gets applied but needs a reboot which is delayed, so DHCP breaks in the process. After the DHCP lease time expires, or the machine comes out of sleep or hibernation, the DHCP request fails because the update needed a proper reboot to finish and work properly. Hence, machine cannot connect to the LAN or t'internet.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          "Same again when a SIP trunk wouldn't punch through our network to the Internet no matter what settings we used. Ended up just using another SIP provider that didn't need NAT-proxies, port-exceptions and the like and "just worked" through an ordinary firewall (Gamma). The telephony companies Hipcom shit literally NEVER worked, not even once, not with all the packet captures in the world going back and forth showing that we were sending the packets out and getting fuck-all back. I reset the firewall to blank settings, we plugged in the Gamma SIP address, everything worked with ZERO settings. Guess who got the SIP telephony contract."

          Guess who's just stuck a hammer through their network security? You need to use a Session Border Controller. Think about the implications of the set-up you've created and why you shouldn't put SIP and RTP through a firewall.

  14. Spaceman Spiff

    This is why I never run Windows. Linux only for me, thanks. At least I have full control over the updates I get, and can roll them back to the last version if there is a problem.

    1. This post has been deleted by its author

      1. captain veg
        Joke

        this is why

        > netsh winsock reset catalog

        > netsh int ipv4 reset reset.log

        And this is why Linux will never take off on the desktop.

        -A.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        @soulrideruk

        Well I use linux as servers, probably not your usual end user thing. I do say the the linux gui's are IMTO lacking.

        As for the walled garden, you are in one with Microsoft.

        Now I cannot guarantee that you will find the software you need for your requirements, but surely its worth a look?

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Being a creative I have a choice between MAC and Windows, and I sure as hell ain't getting into the Apple walled garden.

        First off, what Linux people do is build the platform on which people like you can whine at others. Every time you use a platform that has to handle serious volume there is a high chance you talk to stuff that has originated from some people bashing out some code on Linux, sometimes just for the hell of it - a bit like musicians like to jam occasionally.

        Secondly, you choose your poison. Personally I won't touch Microsoft ever again because I need to get work done and I don't have a fortune to waste, nor time. Apple gear tends to be costly upfront, but after that you don't waste much time messing around, the software tends to cost less and it's more focused on creatives than Microsoft's view of the world.

        However, that's my personal opinion and experience, if Microsoft works for you, by all means stick with it - I agree with you that Linux as a desktop is not really for the fainthearted, nor does it attract the sort of pro software that you need (it's a bit of a chicken and egg problem that seems impossible to fix). Just don't spout the walled garden nonsense as if Microsoft is somehow more open - as far as I can tell they invented the concept of lock in and got nice and fat off it (Microsoft Office formats are a good example). Apple is at least Open Standards compliant - I have iOS and macOS devices all hanging off Open Source groupware and happily sync across using IMAP, caldav and carddav - no need for ActiveSync crud.

        Because that's where Linux works very well indeed.

  15. Pat O'Ban

    My kids now know

    Type "cmd" into that stupid Cortana thing

    ipconfig /release

    ipconfig /renew

    This is when (until just now) I thought it was my recently purchased routers fault

    Thought I was going mad tbh

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: My kids now know

      Thanks. It's years since I used those commands - had forgotten about them. Have now set up a .bat file on the desktop.

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    KB3201845 needs more than 1GB of free space to install. Glitchy, best to defer.

    Is this a sign of the bloatware/unnecessary code to come in Windows 10 Creators Edition?

    The problem now seems to be the size of the cumulative updates, the amount of free space you need to install them (which with SSD sizes, means you don't always have lots of free space).

    You need to have at least 1GB-2GB of free space on the C: drive to install this update. It's also a bit glitchy. It can partially install, if it has enough space to download, but not enough space to install. Then give odd messages in Windows Update, that it still needs to restart to install, when its just restarted.

    Give KB3201845 plenty of free space to install, it seems to need a lot more than most Windows 10 'normal' updates, (rather than say, version upgrades i.e 1511 > 1607 which need lots too)

    Once installed, I didn't have a problem with DHCP.

    I don't use fast boot though, as its a multi-OS bootable machine. Other OS's don't seem to like seeing Microsoft's Win10 suspended state NTFS filesystem, including Win 7, which mark it as dirty in fast boot mode. Netgear Router, don't use Sky/Talktalk/BT/Plusnet as my ISP.

    1. Z80

      Re: KB3201845 needs more than 1GB of free space to install. Glitchy, best to defer.

      I'm still OK after KB3201845 has gone on. I don't use fast-start up either as I found my portable USB hard drive and I think also mouse were still receiving power after 'shutting down' my self-built PC with that option turned on.

      I figured that the time spent working out why would never be repaid by the imperceptibly faster start-up times so I just switched it off.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Read 'that Privacy setting' as Enable Keylogger.

        It's a good practice too to recheck all Privacy Settings after each and every MS Update/Upgrade. They don't always preserve their past privacy values. (Microsoft Amnesia)

        Seems to be a greyed option for me:

        Send Microsoft info about how I write to help us improve typing and writing in the future.

        Read that Privacy setting Switch as 'Enable Keylogger'.

        Seems pretty stupid too if that Keylogger code is 'sitting idle', there to be enabled at any time too. If there was ever a line, MS Privacy settings past it a long time ago. ICO in the UK is utterly useless, just try their live chat.

        Fast boot is a stupid name, because its actually shutdown that is slower without fast boot. Booting with an SSD (without fast boot) makes little difference.

        Does seem like disabling fast boot might be a good first step in resolving this. (Not easy to find in Win10 either, so here you go readers)

        Windows 10

        Control Panel -> Power Options -> Change what the Power Buttons Do.

        Then select Change Settings that are currently unavailable (next to small shied symbol)

        Unclick 'Turn on fast startup'

        Save Changes

  17. Adam Azarchs

    I've seen this in the US

    I'm stuck with Comcast here, and I have a Netgear router. The other day my Windows 10 machine was getting an IP address in a wrong subnet, and there was some truly weird stuff in the arp cache. No, of course renewing the DHCP lease didn't fix anything. I suspect with basically no evidence it's something to do with IPv6 support since about that time I also started seeing DHCP allocating me an IPv6 address on the internal network.

  18. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Ah so that's what it is.

    House mate had this issue on his HP win 10 lappy, Sky hub router. My Win 10 PC doesn't auto update, so maybe I've missed it (wireless set to metered).

  19. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    So which government agency is supposed to protect....

    ....UK/European citizens from unscupulous software vendors incompetence?

    Given than many people ended up being "upgraded" to windows 10 because it was forced down their throats one would have thought that said GOV agency would be hot on the case of fixing MS's wagon.

    WinX is not "free", you were required to have an existing MS OS so I would say MS are still liable for damages irrespective of any EULA they may also have forced upon their "upgraders"

  20. Lostintranslation

    Zen and Billion too

    Bloody hell, I have been having this trouble for about three weeks with Zen. I assumed it was my Billion router on it's way out.

    The problem seems to have stabilised for the past week, but only after reinstalling the firmware numerous times.

    Win 10, latest updates

    Billion Bipac 7800DXL

    Zen Internet Almostbroadband.

  21. akeane
    Trollface

    Have you tried restarting your computer...

    ... with a Linux install disk?

  22. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Windows is shit

  23. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The entire windows update experience for windows 10 is a joke. This attempt to dumb down everything into one monolithic update is plain stupid. Windows 7 update is now almost completely broken - I've tried to get one of my systems to update and after five hours its still stuck on 0% downloaded. Anniversary update failed on both machines, and its not unusual for updates on win 10 to fall over half way through.

    Contrast this with linux mint. Seconds to download and install. Clear update notes and bug reports, easy individual roll back, and advice ratings on stability vs security. This is how it should be done - take note microsoft. If you can't produce reliable code these days then at least make sure users can easily fix things. Removing f8 safemode booting doesn't exactly help....

    1. Blitheringeejit
      Windows

      Five hours? Don't be so impatient!

      I have rebuilt a few Win7 boxen recently, starting with SP1 CD (or preinstall), then installing the Convenience update rollup (http://www.catalog.update.microsoft.com/Search.aspx?q=3125574), then letting Windows Update have a go. With Office installed and set to update, the average runtime for this entire process is 36-48 hours - but it does succeed.

      Needless to say I wouldn't be seen dead running an MS OS myself. But those who pay me are adamant that it's their only option, and they pay me by the hour - so I can live with it, as long as they agree to stick with Win7, and not touch Win10 with the longest of bargepoles.

  24. eionmac

    Virgin Media as ISP, Acer comp Win10 (7upgrade!) moved location

    I see failure on friend's daughter's computer.

    Virgin Media as ISP, Acer comp. Win10 (7upgrade!) normally, then moved location Leeds to Warrington..

    Computer moved to family house with BT as ISP. Internet connection failed. 20161208&20161209.

    Virgin 'down' in places due Win 10 upgrade, but this is Machine that does not connect to internet on local BT router. Reset, reboot does not clear.

  25. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    And so it begins...

    MS / Windows-10 auto-update borking...

  26. Smirnov

    This is not just a UK problem...

    This isn't just a UK problem, it's a global issue:

    http://www.golem.de/news/kein-internet-nach-windows-update-weltweit-computer-offline-1612-124990.html

    (it seems German's media is a bit more thorough when researching issues)

    In short, MS hosed up DHCP in one of the updates.

  27. Needmoresleep

    Why is Windows to blame?

    I don't quite understand...

    I have read the article a couple of times and it doesn't help that I'm ill with a bad cold. (sniff sniff)

    I am not an expert, and just a user.

    I don't understand why Windows is to blame.

    Could someone (sbiff spiff) just dumb it dowbn for me please?

    I'm asking because our home system is a Plusnet Router, I use Windows 10 Pro.

    Also, I thought that recently buying a 2860 Draytek router (not taken the PlusNet router's place and connected up yet) it was reasonably resilient... and I want to be clear in my (sniff sniff) mind.

    1. Richard 12 Silver badge

      Re: Why is Windows to blame?

      DHCP is the usual way to set up your computer (and other things) to connect to the local network, and thus to the Internet.

      Your computer sends out a request "Please tell me how to connect to the network" and a list of information about itself.

      Your router then replies to the request with "Yes of course, this is how..." and a list of settings to use.

      Your computer then replies with "Thankyou, I will use these settings..." and a list of the settings it will use.

      If any of those lists are wrong (or misunderstood), it won't work.

      If either side doesn't send the question or response in a timely fashion, it won't work.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Why is Windows to blame?

      "Why is Windows to blame?"

      Microsoft recently pushed an update for Windows 8 and 10 which is causing some of the systems which receive it to muck up the procedure Richard described. The result being that those systems no longer successfully connect to networks.

      Since you're using Windows 10 you'd be well advised to note the two commands at the foot of the article which seem to resolve the problem, while you have an internet connection, in case you need them later.

  28. wahankh

    I'm normally a Linux user, but been using Windows 10 since release. Updated last night and had no problem with connection, and thats on virgin media. As a matter of fact I haven't had one problem with windows 10 since I've been using it (about July 2015) even with everything I've read about.

  29. Adam JC

    Oh it's common

    I had *thirteen* home users with this issue since Thursday.

    netsh winsock reset fixed them immediately, was a mixture of Win8/10 but mostly W10.

  30. src

    Seen this problem with some developer's machines here in Japan.

    Of course, I use Debian so have not been affected...

    1. Neil Alexander

      Of course...

  31. K.o.R

    Huh, so that's what it was. DHCP would get everything from the router except a DNS server address.

    Said screw it and set DNS manually.

    1. K.o.R

      Of course this doesn't help on my phone, on which you can't manually set *anything*. And you can't download any potential fixes over mobile data...

  32. Steve Graham

    My sister is a Plusnet & Win10 customer and had this problem about a month ago. Since we were both planning to visit our mother, my sister brought her laptop for me to "debug". But Mum's with TalkTalk on a Hauwei router and everything worked perfectly.

    Of course, when she went home, Windows wouldn't connect again. She was told by Plusnet that they were trialling a software upgrade to her Technicolor TG582n and would "put her on the list". It's all been working since then.

    (As it happens, I got the exact same model of router from my ISP, Phone Co-Op, but I have no Windows in here.)

  33. herman Silver badge

    Interesting, hundreds of comments from technically adept people, but not a single one of them ran tcpdump, ettercap or wireshark to see what is really the matter. That kinda makes me wonder what kind of person reads theregister these days.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "That kinda makes me wonder what kind of person reads theregister these days."

      Ahem - several people made that same point yesterday.

      Network protocols have long been a minor part of IT expertise - an arcane black art in most IT people's book. The days when a person could have reasonable competence in all aspects of IT were probably over by 1960.

      Understanding how IT systems work at all levels requires a wide experience with depth in some areas. Since speciality certification became the route to quick career progression - the youngsters have found it wasn't worth taking the unrewarded broad approach.

      Like self-driving cars - people bought into the network monitor suppliers' "expert systems". They believed whatever conclusion the analysis application gave them. They didn't develop the ability to think for themselves.

    2. Neil Alexander

      You're ignoring the simple fact that the conversation happening on the wire might actually be perfectly fine up to a point, it could just be that Windows is ignoring something in the response. Wireshark won't show you that.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        "it could just be that Windows is ignoring something in the response. Wireshark won't show you that."

        It *might* be. But without something like Wireshark, in general folk are just guessing.

        Of course, given that it's Windows 10 (and only Windows 10) that's affected, there'd be a very strong case for guessing that Windows 10 is at fault.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          "[...] there'd be a very strong case for guessing that Windows 10 is at fault."

          On the other hand it may be that W10 is doing something by the book - and has exposed a long standing problem in a common DHCP implementation. It's amazing how many times you can suddenly hit a solid bug - and find that it's been there for 20 years.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        " Wireshark won't show you that."

        In diagnosing a system problem you use whatever tools are available to look at various points in the chain in a methodical fashion. Like a binary chop - you start at both ends and then narrow the gap between the points until you have isolated the failing area.

        It can be hard work nowadays - as it is often difficult to gain access to the optimum points.

        In this case an analysis of a Wireshark capture would show how much of the PC/Router's traffic was as expected. If the PC failed to behave in the expected way at any point then the investigation moves towards, or inside, the PC. The router may still eventually be the culprit - or like many system problems it may be a case that both ends are at fault in some way.

        You also learn to be wary that diagnostic tools can tell porkies under some circumstances. That's where experience counts.

        The old saying is still true: "Don't believe anything someone else says they have seen - and only believe half of what you think you have seen yourself".

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      what kind of person reads theregister these days.

      Indeed.

      I didn't see this article till just now (middle of Sunday morning, UK time). I got about a page and a half in before wondering why no-one's done any actual evidence-based troubleshooting; I guess it requires too much effort, let alone understanding.

      The early responders seem to have come with the benefit of modern IT thinking - "turn it off and on again". And unfortunately they also mostly seem to have been unaware that Win10 "shutdown" isn't actually a shutdown, more a save-to-disk for later (I'd wondered about that based on my own previous observations on other people's Win10 systems).

      Upvotes (and pints) to all those who pointed out the appropriate method for making a Win10 shutdown an actual shutdown.

  34. Happy_Jack

    One solution...

    My Windows 10 laptop was unable to get a DHCP address yesterday after powering on, either from my Virgin Media Hub 3 or from the hotspot on my Galaxy S5, so I knew the problem was with Windows. A quick google search (after setting a static IP) turned up the following page: http://www.sysprobs.com/fixed-windows-10-limited-connectivity-not-getting-ip-from-dhcp. The following commands and a reboot got my DHCP working again:

    netsh int tcp set heuristics disabled

    netsh int tcp set global autotuninglevel=disabled

    netsh int tcp set global rss=enabled

    1. jms222

      Re: One solution...

      netsh int tcp ?

      Very suspect as the problem is quite clearly not at the TCP level. Suspect the reboot fixed it and you wrongly attribute the fix to those commands.

      1. Happy_Jack

        Re: One solution...

        Really? Do you think I (and hundreds of others) never thought to try rebooting? Thanks for your patronising reply.

  35. Mandoscottie

    about fcking time MS this has been a sporadic issue since preview

    finally!!

    I have had this issue sporadically for months. Asus N16 router, plusnet and used to be set as DHCP, changed desktop to static months ago and it fizzled out. I eventually set up static WAN addressing with plusnet also (simpler for home VPN) along with DNS servers and haven't looked back.

    disabling the Intel NIC for a few seconds seemed to resolve it, when affected i couldnt even hit the IP of the router.

    W10 claiming no internet, yet all other wireless devices (non-Win) were perfectly fine.

    Seriously MS stop being inept fuckwitts (more than the norm) A tall order I know :)

  36. HWwiz

    WRT also.

    Ive had the same issue with 3 Win10 machines running off my TP-Link box running DD-WRT for the last 2 weeks.

    However there was a Win10 update rollup yesterday and they seem fine now.

  37. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Why no mention of actual IP's?

    By default Win 8 and 10 give priority to IPv6, BT/PlusNet do not officially support v6 for all customers so this may relate to local ISP connection support for v6 and 6 tunnel weighting.

    It doesn't mention if the problem is the same with IPv6 disabled or the geographical distribution of the issue.

    I assume with BT's ongoing adoption of v6 users in the city may fare differently to those in the sticks.

    The BT routers may pass the v6 packets without any firewalling or filtering, those with routers who "do a bit more" with the traffic or stop LAN devices getting addreses from the ISP don't see the issue (?). If it was a v4 issue it should not be affected while behind v4 NAT.

    Typed from a Win8 box via one of the affected ISP's but third party router and DHCP setup.

  38. bed

    win 10 and BT

    I have had this problem and used c:\netconfig / release c:\netconfig / renew to get going again - clicking the Win10 taskbar icon to reconnect doesn't work.

  39. AQ42

    Windows 7 too

    This afternoon on the kitchen table:

    Two Lenovo Thinkpads - T430 and Yoga 260 (work machine) - both running Windows 10 - fine

    A Samsung series 5 laptop (another work machine) running Windows 7 - won't connect

    A Lynx W10 tablet - won't connect

    ISP is Plusnet but router is TP-Link Archer

  40. GeoCyberwolf

    Not just BT routers. Just had the same thing happen to me and I am using a Draytek 2850. After rebooting the PC it was able to pull an IP address.

    interestingly when doing ipconfig /renew I got "An error occurred when renewing the interface Ethernet : The system cannot find the file specified."

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Windows 7 too

      I have had a few occasions when my W7 PC had apparently established a network connection - but had obtained very strange IP addresses. My tentative guess was that the Edimax N300 wi-fi ethernet bridge had picked up a neighbour's "open" router. DHCP had then worked for the PC - but it had been denied internet access. Hasn't happened enough times to want to spend time establishing what exactly happened.

  41. x 7

    FFS.............

    I'd been struggling with one laptop doing this for weeks. Customer kept calling me back time and time again. In the end I fixed it by downloading the latest wireless drivers from the laptop supplier (the Win10 automatic upgrade had installed a different set, while the default Broadcom drivers were also bad) and also set the router to give a fixed DHCP address for this one machine.

    I couldn't give it a fixed IP address because it was used on other networks - where it behaved.

    It appeared to be a combination of the default Microsoft wireless drivers for Broadcom chipsets and the BT Homehub

  42. This post has been deleted by its author

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Thanks for the Windows Bashing.

      What's wrong with you?

      Why on earth are you trying to blame the users/Ubuntu for yet another M$ forced-fuckup? Most of the (100% M$ Windows using) victims of this latest M$ failure have clearly not installed any non-M$ OS.

      "it's all just assumptions and 0 facts" - Are you referring to your own post in that sentence fragment? Perhaps you should look up "non sequitur" then review your post?

      1. Nick Ryan Silver badge

        Re: Thanks for the Windows Bashing.

        ... Armitxes is nothing more than a troll account created just to annoy. This troll has the usual 0 registration time and a single post

  43. jamiemcconnell

    Use Google DNS

    My wife Acer ultrabook (Windows 10) had this issue on Wednesday (We're on Sky Broadband), i can confirm that no amount of turning it off and on again worked... spotted the local link ip address and guessed something was up... I randomly change the DNS entries to Googles (8.8.8.8, 8.8.4.4) and it started working :+1:

    I also disabled the IPv6 adapter as Sky Broadband very kindly defaults to them :)

    1. damiandixon

      Re: Use Google DNS

      I've been using Google's DNS on all my Windows PCs at home for ages.

      I've been changing my neighbours to use Google DNS when they have been having connection issues.

      My first assumption was a DNS server issue at BT.

      1. LDS Silver badge

        Re: Use Google DNS

        DNS has nothing to do with DHCP (just, DHCP can set the DNS servers along the IP/subnet/gateway/etc.) - if you don't get a valid IP/subnet/gateway, you won't be able to reach any DNS server (nor any other device).

        Using Google DNS is just a way to let it know about any and every host you contact - and then people complain about MS data slurp....

        1. damiandixon

          Re: Use Google DNS

          I believe I never said that DHCP had anything to do with DNS.

          You do however get your DNS setup via DHCP unless you set your DNS addresses locally.

  44. MJI Silver badge

    BT Home hub here

    Works fine here on XP, 7, Mint, Orbis OS, Cell OS, and what ever is on a Vita

  45. Tony Murphy 1

    Not just BT

    It's happened to my parents PC (using Sky Q Hub) and a friends (Virgin Media) both within 24 hours of each other.

    Thought it was McAfee AV at first as they both use it (I know!) and after removing the software the computers were able to get an IP via DHCP and all is OK.

    Wondering if removing the AV has reset something in the TCP stack?

    Going to reintroduce software next week, see if it borks again.

  46. damiandixon

    DHCP and DNS may be the issue

    I had a neighbour with this problem last weekend.

    They had been sent a replacement router from BT but still had problems.

    I changed their Windows 10 PC to use google's DNS servers and everything started working again.

    All my windows PC's use fixed DNS servers and I've not run into this problem so far.

    I've not had any real issues with my HH4 and FTTC. The only real issue I have with the HH4 is the complete lack of being able to configure them to my liking, such as pointing at a set of DNS servers that are not BTs. Any suggestions?

  47. Filippo

    Easier solution

    There is an easier solution. Hold down SHIFT while doing a system shutdown. Then restart the machine. This will clear the issue.

    It's slower than netsh because it requires a reboot, but it's WAY easier to describe over the phone to a clueless user.

  48. Hans 1 Silver badge
    Windows

    Old News

    WTF ?

    I have fixed multiple systems over the past year with this exact issue, computer is connected, be it wifi or ethernet, and you get a 169.254.x.y IP address ... the solution ?

    netsh winsock reset

    Problem solved ... I had it on my Window 8 (about 8 months ago) and Windows 10 (two weeks ago) boxes, and have helped acquaintances with this ... reboot does NOT help, a winsock settings cockup, and no, I had not changed any network settings.

    Mind, the other day I changed the docker virtual switch to connect to the internet directly, to use hyperv, and I had 93% packet loss (from within the VM, 0% [as in, no problem at all] from within the host) ... not sure about the reliability of the Windows 10 TCP/IP stack ...

  49. ad47uk

    Ok here, i am with plusnet and all fine here, but then i have windows 10 installed at the moment and have not updated it for a few weeks, so maybe that is why

  50. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Folks using Windows 10 and 8

    You don't use either of those versions of Windows, you suffer them!

  51. Martin hepworth

    gerenic issue not just BT/Plusnet

    https://tech.slashdot.org/story/16/12/10/014231/new-bug-in-windows-10-anniversary-update-brings-wi-fi-disconnects

    happening to many win10 AU and started before some fix came out on Friday.

  52. bombastic bob Silver badge
    Trollface

    blame windows update

    blame the forced updates, and ISPs quietly causing that excessive bandwidth waste to DIE so they don't have to support it for "all of those computers" during those peak times whenever Micro-shaft "feels".

    well, just a thought anyway...

  53. Speeednet

    Asus routers on a BT wan are also affected, or at least they are in at least two of my clients case.

  54. Davidmb

    Definitely occuring on EE too

    Windows 10 laptop connecting via an EE Brightbox router - happening consistently.

    Only solution: ipconfig /release followed by ipconfig /renew

  55. Dan McIntyre

    I've experienced this issue this weekend and I'm on Virgin Media.

    3 laptops - Toshiba Sat Pro, Sony Vaio and a Dell Ultrabook.

    The Tosh and Sony have been fine after update but the Dell refused point blank to connect to the wireless network. It could see the wireless networks (Virgin routers provide 2 networks, named 2G and 5G) but the only connection it would make was using Vodafone mobile (there's a 4G SIM in it).

    Reboot of the laptop and restarting the router sorted it but it was confusing (and annoying) for those few minutes.

  56. CheeseTriangles
    Facepalm

    KCOM

    I've seen customers of KCOM in Hull complaining to them via Twitter that Windows 10 updates have stopped their routers from connecting. KCOM (as usual) were not very helpful. A few words of advice from the KCOM drone, and a punchline of "if that doesn't work, speak to Microsoft".

  57. IHateWearingATie
    Mushroom

    Gadammit!

    This is why I spent ages on the phone with my Dad on Saturday trying to help him get his laptop back on line.

    Bastards!

POST COMMENT House rules

Not a member of The Register? Create a new account here.

  • Enter your comment

  • Add an icon

Anonymous cowards cannot choose their icon

Biting the hand that feeds IT © 1998–2019