back to article Microsoft goes back to the drawing board – literally, with 28" tablet and hockey puck knob

Microsoft today revealed the Surface Studio, a 28" drawing-board-like PC you can stick a hockey-puck-looking dial on to control software. The touchscreen super-fondleslab was announced alongside an updated Surface Book. Redmond also unveiled the next major update to its latest operating system: Windows 10 Creators Update. …

  1. Dwarf Silver badge

    The big questions

    Will they turn off all the slurping in the update ?

    Will they sort out the start menu ?

    I know its dumb questions, but you gotta ask just to make sure to find out if anyone is actually listening in Cloud MS Land...

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      The big question

      Will it run Linux?

      1. Old Handle

        Re: The big question

        It's a PC, I don't see any reason it wouldn't.

        1. Tom 7 Silver badge

          Re: The big question It's a PC, I don't see any reason it wouldn't.

          You never know - one day MS might write a bios/UEFI lockout that works.

          1. h4rm0ny

            Re: The big question It's a PC, I don't see any reason it wouldn't.

            >>"You never know - one day MS might write a bios/UEFI lockout that works."

            Microsoft is not UEFI. UEFI is a consortium of big players from Samsung to AMD to Intel to Microsoft and a number of others. And Secure Boot could be set to lock out other OSs right now but it isn't and MS's own requirements for Windows certification mandate that a physically present user be able to turn it off. Secure Boot serves a valuable purpose - it blocks a number of real world malware attacks that subvert the boot stack. Things that actually exist. It hasn't been 'failing to keep out Linux' all this time, you can just enter the UEFI menus and turn it off with a keyboard if you want. Or have we reached a generation of GNU/Linux users who now regard that as complex subversion?

            1. Eduard Coli

              Re: The big question It's a PC, I don't see any reason it wouldn't.

              Really, then maybe UEFI only looks like a shill for M$ as it used Secure Boot to lock out Linux and control updates on devices like Surface RTs at least until they leaked the golden keys.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: The big question

          the other big question what's this got to do with software?, and possibly more importantly how much did Redmond pay for this thinly veiled advertisement?

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Can I wipe it....

        ...and put a PROPER linux on there?

        Get it right! If you're going to be the first with this boilerplate comment you could at least use the boilerplate....

  2. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken Silver badge

    Still too small... I've been dreaming of a DIN A0-sized electronic drawing board since I've started using CAD some 30 years ago.

    1. Kristian Walsh Silver badge

      637x438 mm will fit an A2 sheet, so we're getting there. There are plenty of A0-sized displays around, but they're in televisions and signage. You'd need one with at least a 9000 x 6000 resolution to keep the image sharp enough to substitute for a drawing-board...

      Maybe in three or four years? Still, It won't be cheap.

      1. bombastic bob Silver badge
        Devil

        wait until it gets a really big crack in it, like a phone that bends too easily...

        (head-shaped, from head-slam-on-desk frustration - it's Win-10-nic after all)

  3. Novex

    ...Terry Myerson, head of Microsoft’s Windows and Devices division, said he was “humbled” that 400 million people had chosen Windows 10...

    ????????? I think that needs fixing...

    ...Terry Myerson, head of Microsoft’s Windows and Devices division, said he was “humbled” that 400 million people had accepted the rogering up the arse that is being forced on to Windows 10...

    Oh, and while I'm at it, when I'm gaming I prefer to play the game, not to keep pausing every few seconds to check my social media shit.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Terryfying

      Indeed. So "successful" has his division been in that respect, I feel we should rename the act from "rogering" to "Terrying up the arse" in his honour.

      "You're running Windows 10. Seriously.....?"

      "Wasn't out of choice. I woke up one morning to find I'd been Terryed without my permission."

      1. Novex
        Happy

        Re: Terryfying

        "Terrying up the arse"

        Now that deserves more than the one upvote I can give it!

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Really??

    And what about Windows Phone? What about cross compatible gaming between XBox and Windows 10? Surface book is great, but where is the line to stand in to purchase that?

  5. Amias

    Perfect for the wannabe creator market

    this specs seem to fall short of anything really useful for professional use , especially the weird screen resolution. If it had NVMe , thunderbolt and quadro graphics then we are talking.

    looks like its aimed at the same market of people who use macbook pros for facebook and sometimes loading expensive applications then gettings scared and going back to facebook.

    1. Simon Harris Silver badge

      Re: Perfect for the wannabe creator market

      "Weird screen resolution"

      4500x3000 - ok, so it's not an exact multiple of HD, but the aspect ratio matches 35mm film, and hence DSLR sensors - maybe they figure there will be a big market to photographers.

      1. Bronek Kozicki Silver badge

        Re: Perfect for the wannabe creator market

        From my humble (really) experience with drawing programs, the high resolution is very useful BUT only if CPU power (and memory) to draw the screen in realtime is available. The GPU is actually not that very useful, most of the time.

    2. Dave 126 Silver badge

      Re: Perfect for the wannabe creator market

      >this specs seem to fall short of anything really useful for professional use , especially the weird screen resolution.

      What the hell are you talking about? Damned near every non-Surface Windows laptop is 16:9, which isn't great for many purposes. Macs are 16:10 (the same as my ageing Dell) which is handy - even for editing full-res 1080 video you have some spare vertical pixels for a timeline.

      Professional applications - CAD, Photoshop - tend to allow the user some freedom in how toolbars and palettes are arranged in the workspace. If you were a professional, you would know that.

  6. djstardust Silver badge

    Load of bollocks

    I really hate Apple but am waiting for the new imac to be announced. Then it will be bootcamped with Windows 7 64 bit Pro.

    Why Microsoft of all people can't create a decent challenger in the all-in-one market is beyond me.

    Mind you the beauty of bootcamping is that you can run old (and better) Windows versions on the newest hardware.

    Kind of ironic, isn't it?

    1. djstardust Silver badge

      Re: Load of bollocks

      And .... Microsoft's customer service appears to be terrible. Given all the problems with Surface batteries and Surface Book software I really wouldn't want to shell out all that money then be left with a lemon.

      1. h4rm0ny

        Re: Load of bollocks

        My experience with MS customer service has been good. The problems I have encountered have all been with their billing department.

    2. Doc Ock

      Re: Load of bollocks

      >all-in-one market

      I don't like all in one desktops due to big bills or off to land fill if something goes bang. I prefer modular components that can be either repaired, upgraded or replaced relatively cheaply, quickly and easily.

      Best of luck replacing or upgrading the graphics in an iMac .

    3. Adam Jarvis

      Apple Bootcamp no longer supports Windows 7SP1 on newer iMacs.

      You'll be out of luck, Apple don't support older versions of Windows on newer iMacs (no bootcamp drivers). The Bootcamp drivers for a new iMac will only support Windows 8.1/10. Apple no longer support Windows 7 on newer macbooks and iMacs, haven't for a while.

      Apple don't support newer versions of Windows i.e. Windows 10 on older iMacs officially, but we have Windows 10 running on a 2008 iMac + 2009 iMac (the 2009 24'' is the one to get). ATI Radeon HD 2600 Pro dedicated graphics are more stable than the Nvidia 8800GS, which freezes occasionally, due to buggy Nvidia Drivers, but the Nvidia 9400M is OK under Windows 10.

      1. DougS Silver badge

        Re: Apple Bootcamp no longer supports Windows 7SP1 on newer iMacs.

        If you can't boot into Windows 7 you could still run it as a VM.

        1. Adam Jarvis

          Re: Apple Bootcamp no longer supports Windows 7SP1 on newer iMacs.

          Nothing special about Macs regards to VMWare, given that's what VMware is for. Anywhere VMware runs, Windows, Linux, Mac, (even iOS, using Horizon), Cloud/Local Servers/(ESX/ESXi) - you can run Windows 7 as a VM.

    4. joed Silver badge

      Re: Load of bollocks

      "I really hate Apple but am waiting for the new imac to be announced. Then it will be bootcamped with Windows 7 64 bit Pro." - not so fast. A VM - sure, but since Apple no longer supported older Windows versions (like 7) so your new iMac will not let you run better Windows. BTW, I hate both at this point (but consider MS a worse evil - Windows 8+ is an eviction notice to all sane Windows users).

    5. boltar Silver badge

      Re: Load of bollocks

      "I really hate Apple but am waiting for the new imac to be announced. Then it will be bootcamped with Windows 7 64 bit Pro."

      Huh? Most people buy a Mac for OS/X, not because they want some grossly overpriced PC hardware. If you just want win7 just buy an all in one PC for half the money and better specs,

      1. jason 7

        Re: Load of bollocks

        Strangely most of the people I know that run a Mac or Macbook Pro for anything serious use Windows on it. I often get calls from folks who have just spent £1300+ on a Macbook asking me if I have any 'free Windows licenses'.

        The rest would have been better off financially buying a Chromebook to sit looking at Facebook in Starbucks.

    6. Vince

      Re: Load of bollocks

      You won't officially find that supported. As of Sierra Bootcamp only supports Windows 10. Works if you already had older, but not supported new.

      It *can* be done, sort of.

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Windows 10

    I have to say, once I've gone through my settings for privacy my ThnkPad with Windows 10 is far better than my MacBook Air with Sierra. In almost every respect.

    1. WP7Mango

      Re: Windows 10

      I agree. I really like Windows 10, especially on hardware which supports touch and pen input.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Windows 10

        So, I'm not the only who doesn't mind Windows 10? A few minutes removing the crud from the start menu, a quick search and the unwanted applications are gone with some powershell scripts and then sort out the snooping (as much as you can). Apart from a few settings screens looking slightly different, Win 10 is cosmetically the same as Win 7.

        1. Paul Crawford Silver badge

          Re: Windows 10

          A few minutes removing the crud from the start menu, a quick search and the unwanted applications are gone with some powershell scripts and then sort out the snooping (as much as you can).

          Now if only MS had the technical expertises to do that and not have but a few skilled users like yourself enjoying the non-shitty version...

        2. BigAndos

          Re: Windows 10

          I quite like windows 10 as well, my PC boots up a lot faster since I upgraded from Windows 7 and it doesn't get in the way like Windows 8 does. The snooping doesn't really bother me that much, only irritation is lack of control over when it installs updates. It always seems to pick a time I really need to start work quickly in order to spend ages churning away!

        3. jason 7

          Re: Windows 10

          I built a new Intel 5820k box a few months ago with all the bells and whistles and slapped Windows 10 Pro 64 straight on it. All been perfect, not a hitch or a glitch.

          I do tweak it up and switch all the App stuff off. I also run Classic Start.

          Other than that, really happy with it. Yes I have seen it struggle with some hardware (I'm an IT Support guy) and it's usually stuff that's 8+ years old in the main. Usually with a sympathetic touch it can be made to work smoothly on old kit.

          I do however, mandate two things.

          1. Switch off Fast Start.

          2. Always use a Local account.

          Save a lot of hassle. I found out this week that Curry's are charging folks £50 to set them up with a MS account that isn't needed. Terrible!

        4. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Windows 10

          Windows 10 missing Aero Glass effect along with some other Aero features.

        5. bombastic bob Silver badge
          Mushroom

          Re: Windows 10

          "Apart from a few settings screens looking slightly different, Win 10 is cosmetically the same as Win 7."

          *NO*, not even close - there's the 2D FLUGLY for starters, and anything "the metro" or UWP, and of course the "start thing" and its alphabetized 'you cannot shut that off' "all [cr]apps list" where most everything you look for either starts with 'm' or 'w' meaning 'scroll to the bottom to find it, every! stinking! time!'. and so on. yeah, don't get me started, I could write a NOVEL on what's wrong with Win-10-nic and why it's WAY different than 7...

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Windows 10

      Windows 10 AU 1607 fully updated with the Cumulative October updates 'is' starting to get there.

      It's definitely feeling more polished. Most of the time it takes a back seat now, as we appear to be in a 'calm' period regards Windows update, before the release of Windows 10 1703 (Creator's Edition).

      The biggest problem with Windows 10 right now, is to get to this point where things are stable is something akin to finding the Holy Grail. Failed updates-a plenty along the way, freezing of SSDs. Its not easy to get a clean 100% successful install still.

      Windows 10 is let down by the Start Menu, its too pushy, it feels desperate. The Start Menu still feels like malware, you really can't tell either way if its Microsoft or a third party (i.e. malware) modifying/adding things and by default, its pretty much back to full screen sizes of Windows 8.

      The biggest problem I can see ahead, is Windows 10 1703 (Creator's Edition) is looking like a bloater in terms of graphics performance it will need.

      Seems like Microsoft are upping all the hardware requirements to force a hardware refresh/a fundamental gear shift in hardware needed to run Windows. It looks like a reach out to OEM Partners, after decimating them with the free update, to force hardware upgrades on end-users.

      Which probably means actually turning off the forced Windows Update Service come March 2017, and just use Windows 10 for the 'drudge' I need it for. Watching the presentation today, there was nothing in Windows 10 1703 Creator's Edition I need on any laptop I use.

      Ironically, Windows 10 Creators Edition, specifically designed for 3D work, is still the flat design interface, i.e.Microsoft - do as we say, not as we do. Yes, 'love 3D', but not in any part of our Interface design.

      1. Not Terry Wogan

        Re: Windows 10

        "Seems like Microsoft are upping all the hardware requirements to force a hardware refresh/a fundamental gear shift in hardware needed to run Windows."

        If some are screaming blue murder about Windows 10 now, just wait to hear the (justified) cacophony if Microsoft really were to increase the minimum hardware requirements for 1703.

        People on non-LTSB Windows 10 would find themselves stranded on an old build with approximately a year's support for security updates remaining. In other words, Microsoft would have rendered great swathes of machines effectively obsolete - machines that they themselves made update to Windows 10 from Windows 7/8 - before Windows 7 even leaves extended support!

        To my mind, I don't think even Microsoft would dare to increase base hardware requirements for Windows 10 until at least January 2023, which is when extended support for Windows 8.1 ends.

    3. David Glasgow

      Re: Windows 10

      Tee Hee.

      Joke, right?

  8. Emmeran

    I want!

    Can I get a machine shop version. I don't need pretty I need sturdy and dust proof yet able to do all of those cool maker things.

    (Yes I bought a Cat phone)

    1. Dave 126 Silver badge

      Re: I want!

      You have two main issues:

      1 - Protecting the screen area from scratches (bits of metal, dust from diamond tools etc). This could be done with a sacrificial plastic sheet, as many people use on their phone screens.

      2 - Dust ingress into the base unit. You should be able to knock yourself up a slim enclosure with dust filtering, though you might have to actively drive air through the filters in order to provide sufficient cooling. Still, some 9 mm plywood, some vacuum-cleaner filters and a couple of fans won't break the bank.

      The hinge areas can be protected with - at minimum - a plastic bag and some duck tape.

  9. Luna Tick

    o rly?

    400 million people had chosen Windows 10 (no mention of those who didn’t), and said that in return the Creators Update would be available for free to everyone using the operating system

    Oh how gracious of MS. Fock off you condescending prick.

    1. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

      Re: o rly?

      "in return the Creators Update would be available for free to everyone using the operating system"

      Missed that.. Thanks for highlighting!

      So.. This implies that Windows 10 might just not be free forever?

      1. d3vy Silver badge

        Re: o rly?

        "This implies that Windows 10 might just not be free forever"

        Where have you been? Its not free now, the free upgrade period finished months ago.

  10. Mage Silver badge

    The silver hockey puck works on and off the screen.

    Frankly sounds stupid.

    There is a reason why we moved from trackballs and digitizer pucks and light pens. A mouse is better. When you REALLY need a digitizer, a Wacom pen is better. So 200dpi A2 screen with high resolution Wacom pen would to me be creative. This 24" and puck is joke.

    Also "touch" is fine on a phone and tablet if there is no keyboard. It's just tiring on a larger screen when you are mostly using a keyboard and sometimes using a mouse.

    Windows 10? Well to run your existing windows applications (and ones with no Linux or Mac alternative) or buying a not Apple laptop there is little alternative to GHASTLY Windows 10. I refuse to believe that more than 50% of people actually want Win10, and that 90% would prefer simply a new version of XP (Windows 7 is purely a bug fix of misbegotten VIsta, which is NT's equivalent of Windows for DOS, ME. ME was dramatically worse than Win98SE and pointless. like Vista, Win 8 and Win10)

    MS has lost the GUI plot TOTALLY. Bloody morons since after 2003 with "Ribbon". Even "Personalised Menus and hide stuff not used often (XP and later Default) is DELUSIONAL, the LESS used a feature is the more it needs to have the icon, the menu etc consistently where you expect it.

    Removing "little used features" and adding eye candy is MORONIC. A feature used once in 6 months might be REALLY IMPORTANT. The MS telemetry and focus / beta groups are almost pointless.

    MS Needs a Reset, certainly, to about 1999!

    IDIOTS when it comes to GUI. Though mystifyingly Ubuntu has same disease and Apple Mac nows seems to be going backwards, though I never have liked their search tool and stupid big Dock/launcher at the bottom of screen. One that pops out from the side makes far more sense on Widescreen Landscape, only top/bottom on Portrait screens. Why do almost no screens (and none on laptop) support portrait, though many graphics drivers do? I only use TV to watch video.

    1. WP7Mango

      Re: The silver hockey puck works on and off the screen.

      You sound a little unhinged to be honest, and a bit of a grumpy old fart. Windows 10 works fine. In fact, I really enjoy using it and much prefer it to Windows 7.

      The whole point of touch and pen input on a big screen is so that you can input directly onto it. It's simply another form of input, but it doesn't remove any of the existing forms such as mouse or keyboard, so it's not like you're forced to use it.

      If you really want an example of a device that is tiring to use, go and check out the iPad Pro, because that does not support mouse. You have no option but to use touch.

      BTW, if you want a monitor which supports portrait, I'd recommend Dell.

      1. tiggity Silver badge

        Re: The silver hockey puck works on and off the screen.

        iPadPro does not have touch as only option - there is the (stupidly expensive!) stylus for drawing etc.

      2. bombastic bob Silver badge
        Thumb Down

        Re: The silver hockey puck works on and off the screen.

        "You sound a little unhinged to be honest, and a bit of a grumpy old fart."

        'grumpy old fart' - sounds like a snot-nosed MILLENIAL said that.

        Sorry, I don't want to remove my hand from the keyboard to use the MOUSE, half the time, let alone stretch over to the screen and put it between my EYEBALLS and the display surface, at least PARTIALLY blocking what I'm trying to look at. A Wacom pad does just fine for the 'fine resolution' (pun intended) kinds of things you might need to do. why do you need a HOCKY PUCK directly on the screen? A pen on the screen makes more sense, but THAT was available in the 1970's!!

        So the 'hockey puck' input device is YET ANOTHER "patent encumberance" attempt, to lock us all into something Micro-shaft can control and dominate for 20 years... [except it's FAIL]

        I said this about Win-10-nic in general, Micro-shaft leveraging the OS to attempt [at some point] to use PATENTS to weed out the competition, putting themselves into a TRUE monopoly position, but thankfully Win-10-nic's interface isn't being universally accepted, just tolerated by the FRACTION of computer users who are willing to PUT UP WITH IT.

    2. werdsmith Silver badge

      Re: The silver hockey puck works on and off the screen.

      IDIOTS when it comes to GUI. Though mystifyingly Ubuntu has same disease and Apple Mac nows seems to be going backwards, though I never have liked their search tool and stupid big Dock/launcher at the bottom of screen. One that pops out from the side makes far more sense on Widescreen Landscape, only top/bottom on Portrait screens. Why do almost no screens (and none on laptop) support portrait, though many graphics drivers do? I only use TV to watch video.

      Or maybe it's you.

      Because sometimes we have to accept that our own personal subjective preferences don't necessarily represent those of the rest of the universe.

    3. Tom 64

      Re: The silver hockey puck works on and off the screen.

      1999? Are you serious, or just a troll?

      Windows 2000 was decent enough (although it took a decade to boot), but the default UI in XP was utterly gross! It was also a bug ridden mess, got frequently pwn3d, and herded into botnets and the like. Windows 7 was much better, and I have to say I'm starting to like Win 10 quite a lot too.

    4. Adair

      Re: The silver hockey puck works on and off the screen.

      @Mage - I'm with Mage on this. Their critics come across as Millennials who are used to having everything handed to them on a plate.

      Surely the whole point of GENERAL PURPOSE COMPUTING is that it is, well, you know: general purpose; in other words you are free to do what you like, rather than only what someone else thinks is good for you (which usually translates as: what they think will be good for their bank balance).

      Inch by bleeding inch Microsoft is dragging it's OS and associated application echo system away from that hairy jungle of user freedom (relatively speaking) into that nice safe walled garden where the user's data and money are kept warm and dry and heading in the right direction.

      Shiny is as shiny does: distracts from what is really going on.

      One day Microsoft will be history. That day is still a long way off. When it comes there will be a new MS to take its place. The question is: how many people will actually notice or care. Too many today seem absorbed in their latest shiny and have no idea, or just don't care, about what is happening around them.

      Oh, brave new world, that has such people in it.

    5. d3vy Silver badge

      Re: The silver hockey puck works on and off the screen.

      "Also "touch" is fine on a phone and tablet if there is no keyboard. It's just tiring on a larger screen when you are mostly using a keyboard and sometimes using a mouse"

      I suggest that you have not used a modern touch enabled laptop then?

      Ive had a Yoga Pro for the last year and I will not go back to a non touch laptop again, its so much faster to select things, and more natural than using a mouse...

      Need to hit a menu item in the top right hand side of the 4K screen? That's quite a few strokes on a touchpad.. one dab with a finger.

      1. Dave 126 Silver badge

        Re: The silver hockey puck works on and off the screen.

        >Why do almost no screens (and none on laptop) support portrait, though many graphics drivers do?

        The screen (and GPU + drivers) on my laptop support Portrait orientation just fine. The issue is that I find the keyboard difficult to use when my laptop is sat on its side. :)

    6. Adam T

      Re: A Wacom pen is better

      I've been using Wacom since the original white A2 back in the early 90's through to the latest 27HD.

      Wacom are overpriced pieces of shit with some of the worst customer support imaginable.

      I don't care who wins the touchscreen & pen wars: I'm just glad that at long last there are serious competitors pushing the fold and kicking the monopoly nest. Seriously RIP Wacom: You did it to yourself.

  11. Mandoscottie

    cool a 28" gizmo built well...pity its running the shite they call W10, if its anything like my work issued surface pro 4 itll brick itself with almost every CU, 5th time in a year for me...im done with it, my Sales dept can have it.

    Once I muster the will to yet again do the button shuffle and boot off a usb FAT32 hdd to recover the image....piece of overpriced overhyped shit.

    lovely hardware, shite software, kinda ironic thats what MS made its name with really huh.....

    oh and its confirmed the silver pucka-f*ck works with any W10 box.

    3D Ms Paint...woo

    1. Tannin

      Gibberish. Try posting in a known language, such as English.

  12. Teiwaz Silver badge

    Creators Edition?

    - A few AR 3D tricks, a load of game related streaming features and a ramping up of the social media 'sharing' annoyance factor and they think they should call it a 'Creators Edition'?

    Isn't the Professional Edition supposed to be the one people create on? Oh yeah they downgraded that one so that it's not much more professional than the plebs home edition.

    1. Dave 126 Silver badge

      >Isn't the Professional Edition supposed to be the one people create on?

      We used to have professional (Pro) titles such as 'product designer', 'carpenter', 'steel fabricator' and the like, but these days the term 'maker' (read: Creator) is widely used for amateurs, hobbyists and small-scale manufacture.

      Generally, for hobbiest CAD, CAM, CNC and interfacing with old bits of kit, Windows is the OS to use, despite its idiosyncrasies and frustrations.

  13. arctic_haze Silver badge

    Again

    Microsoft has an answer looking for a question.

  14. J.Smith

    I want to join

    I want to join in with the MS bashing bandwagon, it looks fun up there, if a little crowded. I have no problems real or make-believe though.

    1. soulrideruk Bronze badge

      Re: I want to join

      Unfortunately, this is a majority Linux fan based forum, so if you spread such reasonable views as -

      "I don't have any problems in Win 10"

      "Win 10 works for me"

      "I don't use Linux because the software I use is not supported and there are no decent full package equivalents"

      are treated as heretical statements being made misguided plebs who don't have a clue about anything and need be sacrificed to Linus so the purification of the PC world to the single thrall of one man is complete.

      Linus, his plan to take over the world continues......

      1. Geoffrey W Silver badge

        Re: I want to join

        Don't forget how fugly it is. I don't know how any of you can bear to even look at it without screaming. It's made from #0 knitting needles that poke you in the eye to make you cry bitterly as the life source is slowly slurped out of you through its hideous pastel proboscis. Its a crime against humanity on par with the Waffen S.S. and we all know you're only shills for Micro$haft anyway with your tieless leisure shirts and beige slacks and your hipster haircuts. Out, out, you demons of stupidity!!! Begone from our sight.

        1. David Glasgow

          Re: I want to join

          You see the real problem here is that no-one can tell if this is irony or a genuine 24 carat spittle-flecked-monitor rant.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: I want to join

          Ha-ha

          Go over to an Apple forum and you will see lots of posts saying that this is beautiful and that the iMac is fugly.

          It will be interesting to see what Apple announce today and compare it to this POS

          POS? Well, it runs Windows 10. The OS that loves to sell Borg HQ everything you do.

      2. Tannin

        Re: I want to join

        Lots of Windows users here, you know, and most of us (or at least the more intelligent ones) are pretty good at spotting the howling errors Windows is notorious for.

        So who don''t we all switch to 'nix? Lots of reasons. Many of us depend on a must-have application which isn't practical on anything bar Windows or (in possibly Mac in some cases); others need to keep their Windows skillls current for professional reasons; others again are restricted by company policies, and so on.And there are things Windows does better; some of us like that.

        Yes, there are a few Linux fanatics that post here, and yes they can be a bit tiresome now and then, but the vast majoritty are sensible, knowledgable, and friendly.

        In fact, most of the Windows criticisms here (and elsewhere) come from Windows users. Windows users know Windows far better than non-users after all, and it's not as if there is any shortage of Windows mistakes to grumble about - especially these days since Microsoft has (a) finally worked out how to make the mission-critical function work properly most of the time, and (b) totally lost the plot when it comes to understanding users and treating usability as if it matterred.

  15. Adam Jarvis

    The Surface Studio Hybrid Drive - Linux Friendly?

    The Hybrid Raid SSD in the Surface Studio sounds like the same Lenovo SSD design that doesn't support Linux.

    1. Geoffrey W Silver badge

      Re: The Surface Studio Hybrid Drive - Linux Friendly?

      Who cares? You know you don't want one anyway.

    2. d3vy Silver badge

      Re: The Surface Studio Hybrid Drive - Linux Friendly?

      "The Hybrid Raid SSD in the Surface Studio sounds like the same Lenovo SSD design that doesn't support Linux."

      Interesting spin you have put on that... surely Linux doesn't support the hardware, not the other way round.

      Ill give you the same advice I was given when I asked about some unsupported (but very common at the time) hardware in a Linux forum many moons ago... "Its open source, you can add the support yourself."

  16. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

    And there I was thinking that Apple was expensive

    This things really takes the biscuit (or cookie for our american readers)

    £4200 + VAT is around £5000 That is just silly. A 27in iMac fully loaded is nowhere near that much.

    And you are forced to use Windows 10 aka Slurp.

    As has been said, MS support is ... What? Reboot it? Brrrrrrrrr.

    and you are forced to use Windows 10.

    That and the price is enough to say, 'Pass'.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: And there I was thinking that Apple was expensive

      Watching the Microsoft Windows 10 presentation today, it genuinely had me in fits of laughter at one point. It just got so surreal and got really silly, for being so serious.

      Panos Panay takes things to the nth degree, verbally. It just got too serious about what is fundamental just another PC. The presentation bored people to tears at times.

      The females presenters at the start all had that look of Pushy Parents, maybe deliberately. Windows 10 Creators Edition is definitely aimed towards Pushy Parents, looking to spend lots of money on their loved ones in the 8-12 yo range, with the idea of using it to spend quality time together with their children 'creating things'.

      The hardware itself was pretty decent, as good as anything Apple had put out in recent years. Seemed well thought through, but Panos gets far too much stage time.

      He's enthusiastic about what he does I suppose, but you could really see him boring members of his family to death on design details. I'm sure they love him, but just politely leave the room, make a cup of tea etc, once he starts.

      Saying that, he was more interesting than Satya Nadella. My eyes glazed over as soon as he hit the stage, and it was downhill from there, his words felt more like a hypnosis session.

    2. smartypants

      Re: And there I was thinking that Apple was expensive

      You aren't the target audience, are you?

      The Wacom Cintiq 27QHD touch (which designers love - and which the new Surface easily out-performs on specs) comes in at just under £1900. That needs to plug into a computer. The 'cheap' mac pro comes out at £2500... with far less memory, disk space.

      So without even trying, the designer is going to blow around £4500 on a mac system with lower specs than this new Surface device.

      Drawing on the screen really is a big deal for some people, which is why Wacom already sells shedloads of Cintiqs.

      This device is for them. iMacs won't do, so your comparison is not really fair.

    3. Geoffrey W Silver badge

      Re: And there I was thinking that Apple was expensive

      Well, you guys sure convinced me with your analysis. Windows 10, you say, Mr Steve "Interesting" Davies? Slurp you also say? Surreal and Silly, Mr Anon? Hmmm, guess I can scrub this off my Christmas shopping list. It sounds bloody awful. Windows 10 you say? Slurp? What about fugly? I guess thats another commentard who hasnt shown up yet. Hope he hurries. I need some more convincing. Slurp huh? Ooops. Infinite loop...BING! Reboot....

      1. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge
        Happy

        Re: And there I was thinking that Apple was expensive

        Hey! I'm not 'Interesting'. I'm a boring old fart. Please don't tar me with skills that I don't want.

  17. Stoke the atom furnaces

    The WIMPs interface was a mature technology 20 years ago, anything that was worth adding to Windows was added to it years ago.

    MS should concentrate on debugging and rewriting its bloated Windows software, not producing a bunch of new crap that no one outside of MS marketing department is remotely interested in.

    1. JimC Silver badge

      > not producing a bunch of new crap

      Unfortunately no-one is interested in *paying* for debugged and rewritten unbloated software. They're only prepared to shell out for the new crap. so we get what we deserve, even if we don't like it.

  18. Midnight

    I'm confused.

    I can understand the screen. It's a 3:2 aspect, big enough to display two pages side by side at something around 200 dpi, so it's great for doing print work.

    It's touch and has a fancy pen so that you can draw right on it. The Soar Knob does the job of a mouse wheel and give you something to do with your left hand while you're drawing that won't get you arrested.

    The screen can tilt from vertical down to almost flat so that it can act like a traditional desktop or a drafting table, and the whole thing is counterweighted to make the transition as smooth as possible.

    There's a ridiculously high resolution camera built into the top bezel so that you can share all of your conversations with Skype and that the botnet owners can watch your expression right after you realize that all of your files have just been encrypted with unbreakable triple-ROT13.

    That all makes sense.

    Why does a desktop computer, designed to be placed with its back against a wall or tilted so that its back goes down to the desk, have both front _and_ back mounted cameras?

    1. nss

      Re: I'm confused.

      "triple ROT13" LOL

      1. Dave 126 Silver badge

        Re: I'm confused.

        >Why does a desktop computer, designed to be placed with its back against a wall or tilted so that its back goes down to the desk, have both front _and_ back mounted cameras?

        It could be handy for snapping handdrawn sketches ( or small objects you want to sell on eBay or Etsy) at a 'good enough' resolution. If so, then Microsoft should supply it with an 'L' shaped power connector, so that the cable doesn't stray into the shot.

  19. NeilT

    If they want to start on 3D

    They might actually want to start with the pile of horse dung known as the 2d, totally flat, Windows 8/10 interface and office 2013/2016 apps.

    Then once we are, again, immersed in a 3D interface to rival Windows95, we might want to talk about 3d for other things.

    It is unlikely I'll be able to avoid this "creator" edition, but the sad fact is that this journey cannot be avoided for poor SOB's who can't stand CrApple and can't live with Linux.

  20. smartypants

    I like it

    I understand the vitriol poured on Microsoft round here, but I am really impressed with what they're up to here.

    Who knows if it'll eventually be a success. As a designer and artist myself, I like their attempts to make computing surfaces which you can interact with in more natural ways.

    I'd much rather have a Microsoft trying to push the boundaries of innovation and failing often than one which just sits there hoovering up office 365 and azure fees... especially since it'll help give Apple a kick up the arse.

    1. joed Silver badge

      Re: I like it

      I bet that some of the vitriol is the product of user base overjoyed with the form over function trend. As a designer you may be partial and side with MS pushing "the boundaries of innovation". This plus privacy concerns.

      And we could all be happy (and quit whining) if MS just offered choice (to those that cared) instead of rewriting rules in their favor.

      1. werdsmith Silver badge

        Re: I like it

        I get the feeling that much of the vitriol is from ladies who protest too much and a few of Aesop's foxes.

  21. LDS Silver badge

    People who prefer to watch other people gaming instead of playing themselves?

    The walking deads are really coming... true, pure "consumers".

    1. smartypants

      The walking deads?

      People watching other people gaming is hardly new is it?

      How many adults only *watch* football rather than playing it? Or tennis? Or just about any sport.

      Snooker, darts, motor racing....

      So now there's a new thing to watch: people competing in computer games tournaments.

      Big deal!

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: People who prefer to watch other people gaming instead of playing themselves?

      My favourite sport to watch is competitive wife swapping and I get play with myself at the same time, a win win all round.

    3. Geoffrey W Silver badge

      Re: People who prefer to watch other people gaming instead of playing themselves?

      RE: "instead of playing themselves?"

      I play my self. I'm not very good at it. Perhaps I should have gotten Johnny Depp to play me instead.

  22. Mikel

    Only 4GB RAM?

    What is this? Memory for ants?

    And disk... So slow.

    1. smartypants

      Re: Only 4GB RAM?

      Can't you read?

      The article I read states between 8GB and 32GB of RAM.

      1. Richard 12 Silver badge

        Re: Only 4GB RAM?

        GPU RAM. 2GB, or 4GB on the very top end unit.

        That's ludicrously low, especially given the screen resolution.

        2GB of GPU RAM is entry level these days.

        1. h4rm0ny

          Re: Only 4GB RAM?

          It's not for gaming.

          1. Richard 12 Silver badge

            Re: Only 4GB RAM?

            It's for WORK.

            Photoshop, Vectorworks, Avid and more.

            This is not a device aimed at people who are merely playing with spreadsheets, it's supposed to be a creative workhorse and that neans GPU intensive applications.

            Most CAD is far more GPU intensive than any games. In fact "gaming" graphics cards are rather poor at CAD.

  23. raving angry loony

    Etch-a-sketch?

    If they stick a SECOND hockey puck nob on it, it might actually be useful as an etch-a-sketch. Will it clear the screen if you turn it upside down and shake? Or will it just crash?

  24. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

    creatives! creatives! creatives!

    Sounds familiar :-)

  25. mrtom84

    More in game social overlays

    to go with steam community and nvidia twitch streaming. Who's jumping on the bandwagon next? "Norton antivirus game stream hub"

  26. Mike Richards Silver badge

    Microsoft might just have beaten Apple to the 'wow!'

    Microsoft has produced a beautiful piece of design (that hinge alone must be a spectacular piece of design) and even the full-fat version of this, whilst well out of my price range, isn't very much more than a tricked out Mac which doesn't have touchscreen.

    And tomorrow Apple is going to do its best to get us all excited about a *slightly* thinner MBP with a row of touchscreen keys.

  27. frank ly Silver badge

    Check the B-Ark 'guest' list

    "These top contacts can also be shown in the bottom right of the screen and they can send you “shoulder taps” – basically emoji messages in 3D."

    We need room for some software developers.

  28. Ralph the Wonder Llama
    FAIL

    "Promised" 3D in Powerpoint?

    Shouldn't that be "threatened"?

    1. Dave 126 Silver badge

      Re: "Promised" 3D in Powerpoint?

      I'm now thinking of the 3D holographic shark in Back to the Future 2 - the shark that scares Marty outside the cinema to advertise 'Jaws 19'.

      As a Powerpoint demonstration.

      Until then, we have this:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RxHvQ0eHXA (Chang: Just a guy who knows PowerPoint)

  29. Def Silver badge
    Facepalm

    "color palates"

    Really?

  30. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Hockey puck knob

    I've seen (and suffered) a fair amount of the above affliction in my playing days (armour reduces the impact, it does NOT negate it!)...

  31. sabroni Silver badge
    Coffee/keyboard

    “humbled” that 400 million people had chosen Windows 10

    Put a smile on my face! Not sure chosen is the word I've had used....

  32. Jim84

    I'm not sure 'Creators' are interested in all in ones

    If if they are, they plug a 'mac pro' wastepaper bin computer into the back of a mac all in one.

    All in one pcs are just for people who want a basic computer at home so that the kids can do their homework on it without too much fuss and cabling.

    MS decided to put the chips in the base rather than the back of the screen like apple, but both options have to compromise by using mobile graphics chips. As these macines have to be used on a desktop, i'm not sure why microsoft didn't just make a reasonbly thin 'tower' that could be screwed flat underneath the back of a desk but still be big enough with good enough airflow for full fat chips?

  33. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Get in quick

    Hardware supported until they get bored, probably just after they realise there are not hoards of "creatives" gagging to get away from Apple and missing the frequent reboot cycle.

    My guess is 20 months.

    Upvote if you think it will be more than that ;-)

  34. tiggity Silver badge

    Right click changes

    This caught my eye: "Right click on a file & option to share with top 4 contacts"

    What could possibly go wrong there?

    Maybe its a morality stance - might in future discourage a drunken lad pron viewing on his computer if he accidentally shares it with the parents (OK, parents v. unlikely to be in teens top contacts, so assume someone equally embarrassing is in the top 4)

  35. Andy The Hat Silver badge

    Fabulous!

    A 'tablet' like that has loads of potential uses. Mounted flat in the top of a low table running Invaders for a start, or it could run Galaxians or it could run Asteroids ... that's three uses before I even stand my pint on it ...

  36. pauleverett

    I like what I see, but I will probably skip gen1, and go for gen2, for the following reasons:

    1. 32GB is not enough anymore.. as a top of the line ram config, this is too little for real creatives.

    2. 4GB is bare minimum for a GFX card now. it needs to be 8GB 1080 levels, or they are behind, before they have even started.

    3.CPU needs more beef.

    4. it will suck with Photoshop cos Adobe are not capable of making an interface, that works with high res screens. This is not Microsoft's fault, but tiny fonts are nasty when you hit 50, and Adobe sucks(just to get that in there).

    Other than these points, I like the direction MS are going in. Apple are treading water with iMacs. I have several, and frankly I am not exited by IMac's anymore. MS needs to recognize that the people that want to buy these designs, want the look, the functionality, but they also need the desktop processing power of 2016, and not the notebook power that apple sell in their iMac's.

    All MS have to do to win, is put the best hardware, in the best package. Make quality, and design, that blows people minds, and they win. With this package, they are well on the way to getting my money.

  37. Vince

    Mixed feelings here.

    (a) The hardware looks great, really nice and puts the iMac on the back foot as the "standard" of integrated machine design. It's subjective yes, but I prefer the consistently thin than really thin at edges and really thick in the middle of imac.

    (b) Windows 10... I really don't like 10, and if that device had 8.1 available, I'd be interested but obviously that'll never happen.

    (c) Price - it's too expensive. You can't compare to the iMac as iMac has sod all of the hardware capability - eg touch, pen, the actually-makes-sense-for-some-uses dial, plus the iMac has older processor/memory/storage tech IIRC - when they announced it it sounded like $3000 got you i7, 32GB RAM, 2TB storage - at that price, great deal, really good. But actually it's more like $4200 - and you still have to pay for the dial (unless you pre-order right now).

    (d) Graphics - the choice of graphics is a bad one - it's not a current/new variant so sadly that reduces the meaningful lifespan on a device of this type more than any other - real shame.

    ...but sadly Windows 10 really smacks (for my purposes/interests, I realise not everyone agrees) and pushed me to Apple for the first time in years. So far, can't say I'm upset or wanting to come back to Windows.

  38. Sporkinum

    As a radiology workstation

    The specs on this would be great for a radiology workstation. If someone would get 510k approval for mammography, you would have a whole workstation for less than the cost of one 5MP mammo monitor. As it is, it would work great for all other modalities.

  39. Stevie Silver badge

    Bah!

    Front and back cameras on this thing are about as useful as nipples on a fire hose.

  40. Eduard Coli

    Batteries???

    One supposes by then M$ will have admitted that it has a battery issue with Surface Pro or will they just sweep it under the rug and obsolete the devices?

  41. Grunchy

    The new hardware isn't really all that much better than the old hardware IMO.

    For instance I got a dual, quad-core Xeon Lenovo workstation cast-off from the Planetarium for $200, and it's terrific performance! Well good enough anyway.

    Maybe AMD Zen will push Intel toward incrementally better performance, because nothing else seems to.

    I'll keep my $2,999 thanks. I can buy a USB-C adapter for way less - if I ever wanted to!

    1. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Devil

      "The new hardware isn't really all that much better than the old hardware IMO"

      and slapping Win-10-nic on it makes it WORSE than the old hardware.

  42. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I'm all for 3D modelling, BUT...

    a) What has it to do in an all-purpose (I think) Operating System?

    Thus the inverse of Word becoming an OS: the OS now becoming Blender?

    b) Does this mean that now each and every Win10 user will have all this stuff foisted upon them, including those who can't even operate* the current Paint?

    Or is this only about the "apps** " being foisted along with the OS?

    * not a slight: There are of course people who simply don't need it, so why should they be able to operate it.

    ** Nowadays even PCs and laptops no longer run "programs", "applications", or indeed "software"?.

  43. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    " to scroll through color palates"

    Yuck.

    Sounds ominous...

  44. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Posture

    Jeez - the picture in profile view of the screen at a 30 above horizontal says it all. You will only be able to use the bottom 6" of the screen if you are lucky without having to float your arms and hands above the surface of the surface. Using any other part of the screen for any real work (longer than 30 seconds) will lead to horrible back, arm and shoulder aches. It's like furniture of the future from the 1950s, looks great but really uncomfortable.

  45. dave 93

    Very expensive for what it is...

    You could buy a 27" 5K Retina iMac AND a 12" iPadPro AND still have $300 left over. Shame really, because it will die on the tree at that price point. Just sayin'

  46. aqk
    Linux

    "I WANT WINDOWS-7!"

    Perhaps the latest Linux? . Or more likely, some (linux-based) fruity feline Mac flavour on an old Motorola,.

    I can't be bothered looking at all the whiny comments here,

    But I wonder how many of the techno-weenies below are saying that they might buy it, but only if they can retrofit their wonderful Win-7 (or perhaps XP) on it instead of this horrrible Win-10.

    "Windows-10?? OVER MY DEAD BODY!"

    Enjoy your win-7 (or perhaps Linux), guys! And don't get too many sticky little fingerprints on that big touch-screen! Unless of course, mum will wipe it clean for you every morning, and not ask any questions..

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