back to article Apple’s macOS Sierra update really puts the fan into 'fanboi'

“Ooh, I’m so hot! And I’m getting even hotter for you, big boy!” This is totally unexpected. I don’t know what to say. “Do nothing, baby. Just listen to the rush!” I wondered what the noise was. I thought I was going deaf. “Not at all! Now just sit back and contemplate what’s going on in your lap.” As if I could …

  1. wolfetone Silver badge

    You're Wrong Sir.

    You don't use Siri, not because "It's an idiot that can't understand plain English spoken by an Englishman living in England", but because you're not an idiot that can't open up Google and type in the question you need to have answered.

    That really is the divide with Siri and other AI's like this. Siri is for those who can't type but can speak, for those who like to show off the fact they think they're too important and busy to type, and for those who think it's funny to ask an inanimate object whether they love them or not. The rest use a keyboard and a web browser, and it works perfectly fine.

    1. macjules Silver badge
      Coat

      Re: You're Wrong Sir.

      for those who think it's funny to ask an inanimate object whether they love them or not.

      Seems to work fine with my wife.

      1. Camilla Smythe Silver badge

        Re: You're Wrong Sir.

        for those who think it's funny to ask an inanimate object whether they love them or not.

        Seems to work fine with my wife.

        I suppose we all need somewhere to park the bike. When did you pass her away?

    2. Mine's a Large One

      Re: You're Wrong Sir.

      I've not yet upgraded to Sierra, but on my iPhone I regularly use Siri in the car to call or message handsfree if it's urgent. Yesterday morning I even got it to set a reminder for when I got to the office.

      Not because I'm "too busy or important to type", more because it would be extremely foolhardy to do so whilst driving and because it is so easy - even though I have a (slightly diluted after being away for 25 years) Newcastle accent!! It's not perfect (it once texted my wife to say I'd "Leaving in 5 nuns" instead of "Leaving in 5 mins" (at least that's what I told her...), but most of the time it understands my accent just fine.

      1. Deltics

        Re: You're Wrong Sir.

        You must be sooooper important AND soooooper forgetful if you had to set yourself a reminder for yourself to be reminded of once you got where you were going at the time.

        What's more distracting ? Fooling around on a keyboard/screen to enter a request or arguing with a "voice assistant" when it doesn't understand what you are trying to tell it and getting annoyed that the stupid thing can't get it right ? Trick question: They are both distracting, though perhaps in different ways.

        If it's important enough, then it's worth a few minutes to pull over and get it done safely (AND legally) without ANY distraction. If it's not important enough to pull over then you are only indulging in making yourself feel important by putting other people's lives at risk by getting into a discussion with an electronic device. It's only legal because the legislation is drafted with a stupidly specific focus on a particular form of distraction. It sure isn't any more safe.

        And don't tell me that voice interaction is no different than a conversation with a passenger. The difference is this ...

        When talking to a passenger if you feel you need to momentarily give more attention to the road (where it belongs) you can say "Hold on..." and the PERSON you are talking to will know exactly what you mean and why. Even if they aren't in the car with you, someone on a phone call will know you are driving and understand the context. Siri et al will think you are issuing them an instruction or adding some text to the reminder/message/email you are in the middle of composing. And if you don't stick to the script that Siri is expecting (despite the marketing bullsh*t these things are NOT "intelligent") then it will potentially do something you don't want, so right in the middle of when you are needing to give more attention to the road, you are getting into a right 2 and 8 with an ignorant and now intrusive "assistant".

        So kindly do everyone else on the road a favour and stop using these things.

      2. DiViDeD Silver badge

        Re: You're Wrong Sir.

        It might be just me, but in 60 years of being alive, I have never, not once, found myself in a situation where I am driving to work (or anywhere) and suddenly have to leave an 'urgent' message. Does everyone but me need to let Cheyenne Mountain know that they're still alive AT THIS PRECISE MOMENT in order to avoid nuclear holocaust? Is the rest of the world so important that, if they don't message the office THIS INSTANT, western civilisation will collapse?

        I really don't buy this idea that some of us are so vital to the continuing existence of the universe that we have to send a message right now and a delay of 5 minutes will be catastrophic to everything we hold dear.

        Urgent to me doesn't mean 'I have to do it right now because I didn't do it when I was supposed to', or 'If I don't respond right this second I'll miss out on a bunch of FarceBook likes'.

        The only thing I can imagine as urgent would be 'Sorry, I'll be late in because I've just crashed the car'. In which case you wouldn't be on the road anyway.

      3. DiViDeD Silver badge

        Re: You're Wrong Sir.

        "Leaving in 5 mins" is an URGENT message?

    3. Howard Hanek Bronze badge

      Re: You're Wrong Sir.

      f u kn rd ths u prbly use Siri

      1. toxicdragon

        Re: You're Wrong Sir.

        @Howard Hanek

        Or owned an old brick mobile.

    4. Michael Sanders

      Re: You're Wrong Sir.

      Or....I have giant fingers (among other things) and a small phone.

  2. Franco Silver badge

    I'm of the opinion that Siri and Cortana are just rebrands of Clippy. Just as "useful" and definitely just as annoying, and also as capable of triggering my technology induced tourettes.

    1. Warm Braw Silver badge

      Not having easy access to either Siri or Cortana (which sounds to me like it should come with a vinyl roof and adhesive "leatherette" seats), perhaps the newly diminutive Mr. Dabbs could post the response to:

      Siri, why is my fan running constantly?

      I'm sure that would conclusively demonstrate its utility.

      1. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

        don't forget the

        Fluffy Dice and the GT go faster stripe.

        {Once the owner of a Cortina 1600E until it got knicked and wrapped around a tree.}

        1. Sgt_Oddball Silver badge

          Re: don't forget the

          Least it was upright. Had a Nova for a while and that had a thing for wanting to be on it's roof...

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: don't forget the

          "... until it got knicked and wrapped around a tree ..."

          Yeah, right. Heard *that* one before...

        3. herman Silver badge

          Re: don't forget the

          Och, ye olde Contina's - much beloved for its permanent oil drip.

      2. Franco Silver badge

        Cortana is much better than Shazam at identifying music (IME), but the only other time I use it is in the car as the SMS reader function works through Cortana now.

        On an (almost) related note, I work close to the old Rootes factory site in Scotland which is now a retail park. However the railway bridge at the end of the old perimeter road hasn't been painted in 30 years so still says "Welcome to Talbot. Home of the Sunbeam and the Avenger."

      3. TomPhan

        Had to try that - and got the response "Interesting question"

    2. joed

      How true. MS first rebranded Clippy to Bing and now to Cortana. And Siri is just its mouthpiece for Apple's platforms. The only other difference (besides the name) is that now is next to impossible to get rid of the pest.

      1. Colin Millar
        IT Angle

        Getting rid of Cortana

        Can be done

        Find the file name and location for the process and rename it.

        As the process is always running you will need to either do some quick alt-tabbing between killing the process and accepting the file rename or use a boot disk to get to a command prompt.

        If this breaks anything else I have yet to notice

    3. Siv

      I am glad I am not the only one.

      Who had this bright idea that talking to devices was a good idea. Ok it was on Star Trek, but we are a billion light years away from that kind of AI understanding of what we mean and putting what we say into context of other things that are going on around the speaker who is instructing the computer.

      I personally do not want to talk to machines I much prefer gathering my thoughts and then typing them out and then refining again before hitting GO/ENTER/WHATEVER!

      It's the same thing I got when I first tried using a dictaphone, I spent more time winding back and redoing the recording than productive work. I am much more efficient on a keyboard. I like the idea of write your initial thought and then re-read and edit before committing.

      I think if half of the World who use smartphones did that before posting to Twitter or Snapchat Facebook email or whatever, the World would be a better place. Expecially if they are under the influence of some driug that reduces their inhibitions.

      Bad idea!

      1. DiViDeD Silver badge

        @Siv Re: gathering my thoughts

        I'm glad I'm not the only one. Having tried various speech to text softwares, I soon realised that it was far more efficient for me to work out what I wanted to say first, then type it properly like a grownup. Dragon had to deal with interpreting myriad variants on 'er', 'ummm' and 'shit! hang on!' before I gave it up.

      2. fidodogbreath Silver badge

        Who had this bright idea that talking to devices was a good idea. Ok it was on Star Trek

        Talking to the computer was a just a narrative device to "show" the computer to the TV viewers. Many (most?) Trek stories hinged on leveraging the power of the ship computer, but it had to be done in a way that was watchable and entertaining. Waiting for Spock to keypunch a 2500-card program would not have made for compelling TV.

        All of that to say, computer voice interaction on Star Trek was created solely to be seen and heard by others, rather than as an efficient way to do computing. In that sense, Siri / Cortana / Google Assistant / etc. have matched the core functionality perfectly.

  3. Terry 6 Silver badge

    If only

    "And Cortana, as you must already be aware, is about as indispensable in the burgeoning personal AI field as the unwanted cork placemat you were given by an aunt some 15 Christmases ago"

    Nah. I'd possibly keep the cork mat. But Cor-bloody-tana is slightly less useful than the acres of packaging that Amazon use to deliver very small items.

    My Apple phone using family BTW only ever make use of SIRI as a way to access the car's "Hands free". And that's because they have to. So, since they use most tech like it was surgically grafted I'm guessing that SIRI is pretty useless too.

  4. m0rt Silver badge

    iTunes and Safari. I hate both. I especially hate iTunes. It is something that should be ripped out of Mac OS/macOS/NeXT and burned with napalm. In 5 years time, when the iTunes department splits out from apple, borgs systemd project then launches its own OS that will ensure that you never have to see a 'pesky commandline' again so you don't develop worry lines because of concentration...but develop an ulcer instead out of frustration...

    Remember. You heard it hear first.

    Anyway, we all know browsers that allow us to not use Safari. But for a music player that works well, is simple, will run flac and doesnt' consume excessive CPU on a mac (I liked clementine - but it soaked up cpu cycles like it was creating bitcoins) then try Swinsian.

    Oh, you have to pay for it at some point. Which for working, decent software, I don't mind doing. I'm odd that way...

    1. H in The Hague Silver badge
      Pint

      "I'm odd that way..."

      Join the club! Though I would call it "sensible".

      It's Friday and beer o'clock is approaching so here's a 568 ml :) for all Commentards.

    2. phuzz Silver badge
      Gimp

      You hate iTunes on OSX? Just be glad you never had to try the Windows version *shudder*.

      As for alternative players, the media library in VLC seems to be getting better these days, might be worth a try.

      1. Yesnomaybe

        VLC is free and very good. Have an upvote.

        1. shawnfromnh

          On win10 I'm using PotPlayer64bit.

      2. Arctic fox
        Windows

        "VLC seems to be getting better these days"

        Indeed. Available on Linux, Windows and MacOS (or however one is supposed to italicise Cupertino's offering these days). Unless you are so deep into i-Tunes that you cannot get out there is no excuse for installing that shit regardless of your choice of OS.

        1. Martin an gof Silver badge

          Re: "VLC seems to be getting better these days"

          I like VLC - it is cross-platform and seems to play just about anything - but if you need to use it from the command-line for anything slightly out of the ordinary, best of luck. The documentation is an utter mess with apparently authoritative sections actually being completely out of date and simply wrong. For most video playback I now use mplayer, or (on the Raspberry Pi) Omxplayer.

          If I were looking for an all-singing, all-dancing iTunes-alike, I've been quite impressed with Amarok which comes as standard with the KDE/OpenSuse setups I use.

          For audio editing, I'm a little surprised I haven't seen mention yet of Audacity.

          But if you need the stuff that only iTunes can offer - administering and syncing Apple devices - you don't really have much choice, do you?

          M.

          Please forgive all the Wikipedia links, doing this during lunch at work and the web filter blocks "freeware and shareware download sites", which is what it has marked the homepages of mplayer etc. as.

        2. Delbert Grady

          Re: "VLC seems to be getting better these days"

          bit of a bug with VLC 2.2.4 on Mac at present, with occasional audio glitches.

          old version of Vox is superb for playing audio, much more accurate repor than VLC

          but Aurdivana is great quality playback, but it ony works on Snow Leopard :(

    3. Christopher Reeve's Horse

      Music Software

      I believe JRiver is available for Mac; I have the PC version and would rate it as possibly the best and most capable piece of software I've ever bought.

    4. Alistair Dabbs

      Swinsian

      Thanks for the tip on Swinsian but I don't use iTunes for playing music. I use it to sync my iOS devices, and I have lots of them because of my work. I could do it all via iCloud but I'd run out of space up there immediately and be forced to pay Apple for more storage etc... and STILL have to use iTunes to manage it all.

      1. JLV Silver badge

        Re: Swinsian

        which iTune alternatives would allow me to manage mp3s as follows:

        - all new MP3s are brought in without a rating.

        - then I go into iTunes and give them a 2

        - create smart playlists to put on ipad/iphone:

        - `mytoprated` will pick say 4gb of 3+ rated songs

        - `random` will pick 4gb if rating is >1

        - newly added music is also copied (if >1 rating)

        When I find a song/artist excessively annoying (The Verve, Bitter Sweet Symphony *&#^~, for example), it gets a 1 rating. That means the various >1 rating smartlist conditions never let it near my devices again.

        Now, one bit of annoyance is I still haven't figured out where iOS iTunes has now hidden ratings. But otherwise it works well enough.

        Open to suggestions to get off iTunes. But what I don't want to do is to manage 7000+ songs that take 40gb or so manually to fit subsets of them into 6-10 gb free space devices. And I don't ever wanna have Bitter Sweet* on any device. So conditional playlists and ratings seem necessary.

        Any recommendations?

        * substitute your own abhorred mp3s - Bieber, JLo, etc... - that you don't want to delete but never want to hear again.

        p.s. any replacement that easily copies playlists onto my BB10's SD Card (directly, cuz BB Link is the worst ever) gets my eternal thanks.

        1. Headley_Grange Silver badge

          Re: Swinsian

          JLV: I mostly agree. I only listen to music with iTunes. i've got a 100+GB library to manage and I've never found another player that can let me create playlists like "all songs released between 1974 and 1980 which aren't Christmas songs, aren't songs I hate and which I haven't listened to in the last year"

          I use "Skip" as a genre for the albums I don't want to listen to in Smart Playlists, rather than waste stars.

          If you're on a Mac try "Export for iTunes" to copy playlists to other devices or memory cards.

    5. cd

      Former Applecare here, had to support their overpromised disasters. Never ever use Apple software on their systems.

      For music, try Cog or Clementine, both play folders instead of doing all that tagging crap. Both free. Cog will play anything I throw at it, very simple to use.

      No one with self-respect uses Safari, the short-bus of browsers. I specifically use it on those websites that are locked down unless all javascripts/cookies/etc are allowed, it's my biatch-mode browser. Sure they can gather data, be 9 months before it gets opened again for one page, but feel free. Try Seamonkey Aurora builds with lots of script blockers, like buttah.

      For text, Text Wrangler or Libre Office. For photos, Graphic Converter, DxO, Darktable, Lightzone, RawTherapee, etc. For sound recording and editing, Amadeus.

      In every case, there is no need for Apple's offerings, something better which is often free. I deleted iTunes and haven't looked back, my music is no longer disorganised and my fans don't run.

      1. Unicornpiss Silver badge
        Meh

        A trend is apparent...

        Apple software runs worst on Apple products. (er, also not great on Windows) Microsoft software runs crappy on Microsoft OSes. (Office for example) 3rd-party software, especially open-source software, runs pretty well on everything. And most everything runs really well on Linux--if you can get some of it to run.

        There's a lesson in there somewhere, but after a day of dealing with SharePoint and OneDrive issues I'm too tired to puzzle it out.

      2. johndrake7

        More alternative-to-default app suggestions

        Many if not most of the OSX default apps and some of its sysctl-level operating system defaults lead directly to disappointment. Alternatives that have worked out well for me personally, many of them available in OSX/Win/Linux/BSD versions: Video playback - mpv. Audio EQ - VLC. Terminal - iTerm. Audio encode/decode - XLD, superb, in and of itself almost an argumance for an instance of OSX somewhere, somehow. Archive encode/decode - Keka or B1(swiss army chainsaw, handles anything ever). And homebrew for all the open source stuff (both commandline, e.g. bash and UI e.g. Handbrake/Inkscape.

        The lonely exception for bundled apps IME is Pages, which crushes both MS Office Word and Libre Office Writer in terms of UX and is surprisingly brilliant for small/mid-sized documents and document layout if perfect Office compatability is not a concern.

  5. Bronek Kozicki Silver badge

    Ouch

    " I’ve updated my laptop to an operating system that guzzles a full battery charge in less than half an hour"

    Dabbsy, careful there, if the battery is being discharged this fast this implies a very large load - which will lead to significantly shortened battery life. And guess what happens if Li-Ion battery is put under significant load when it is past it's best.

    1. m0rt Silver badge

      Re: Ouch

      "And guess what happens if Li-Ion battery is put under significant load when it is past it's best."

      Ageist.

    2. Dan 55 Silver badge
      Trollface

      Re: Ouch

      Happily I have practically everything iCloudy disabled which I'm sure helps with fans and battery life but I still struggle to get four hours out of my MacBook since Sierra. It's turned into a Windows PC!

      1. 404 Silver badge

        Re: Ouch

        Hey now - your Mac may have turned into something, but it isn't a Windows PC.

        This CF-53 Toughbook w/Windows 8.1* gets about 9.5-12 hours on it's battery, depending on what I'm doing with it.

        *yeah I got an XP style Start button, what of it?

        1. Jeffrey Nonken Silver badge

          Re: Ouch

          "yeah I got an XP style Start button, what of it?"

          I've got Classic Shell on all my Windows computer's set to Windows 2000.

          1. 404 Silver badge
            Pint

            Re: Ouch

            Didn't want to go that far - most people went Windows Millennium at the time, I missed that heartache with Windows 2000 Pro due to the need to be productive at work.

            I use the the XP style button because it trips people out because THEY are stuck with Windows 10 muaaaahahahahahahahahaaaa... and I'm contrary that way... pick one.

            1. Jeffrey Nonken Silver badge

              Re: Ouch

              I'm just an old fart who never saw a reason to change since 1999. :)

              P.S. I had to add "fart" to the phone's spelling dictionary. Pfeh.

              1. Alumoi

                Re: Ouch

                @Jeffrey

                Not so old fart as it seems you're using a phone to browse the web.

          2. Unicornpiss Silver badge
            Happy

            Re: Classic Shell

            You get an upvote just for mentioning it. I love that add-on. It makes Windows 8 and 10 tolerable, even usable. Pure bliss. The options added by Classic Shell should have been available natively in every OS from Microsoft from Win 7 onward. Let people decide how they want their menus and settings to behave, don't cram something different down everyone's throats just because some utter fool thinks it's the wave of the future or some other ill thought out nonsense, such as people exist only as impressionable sheep that must be marketed to every waking moment, even while trying futilely to be productive at work. (some of them ironically in marketing, no doubt)

            Are you listening Microsoft? Download Classic Shell and take notes please.

            1. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

              Re: Classic Shell

              Shhhhh. Don't shout too loud or MS will swoop in and do EEE on the nifty bit of software. They'd do the EEE in a few minutes and 'poof' it will be gone and consigned to history.

              There is no sign that MS is even listening to us Windows 10 refusniks. I've given up and ditched (or will by Monday) all my Windows systems.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: Classic Shell

                Shhhhh. Don't shout too loud or MS will swoop in and do EEE on the nifty bit of software.

                The bastards at Redmond automatically disabled Classic Shell during the W10 "anniversary update", whilst adding a load of old crapware that I didn't ask for, and didn't want.

                Microsoft know people specifically sought out and installed Classic Shell because it's good, but they then removed it not (IMHO) because of any genuine compatibility issues, but because it shows up their shameless incompetence and reckless hatred of anything customers and end users might actually want.

                There's lots of companies make big mistakes. But can anybody think of a corporation as INTENTIONALLY and continuously deaf to the voice of the customer as Microsoft?

                1. IGrewUpWithInternet

                  Re: Classic Shell

                  You can't innovate and simultaneously bend to the will of old dogs.

                  The only things I take issue with, in regards to how M$ behave is their money grabbing antics and the blatant information security implications with some of their products (the Kinect Kerfuffle prior to the XB1 release, meaning it would collect data and HAD to be plugged in for the console to function. They "Day 1" patched that out of the OS after a huge uproar).

          3. Jeffrey Nonken Silver badge

            Re: Ouch

            Stupid frikken phone auto-inserted that apostrophe I SWEAR IT WASN'T MY FAULT I AM NOT ILLITERATE.

            ..Though I do speak and spell American, not English. :)

  6. Dan 55 Silver badge
    Megaphone

    Oh for the love of gaaahd. Who are these helpful souls who go around the forums insisting that every Mac issue ever encountered can be solved by restarting the computer with your fingers held down on keys at opposite ends of the keyboard like a double-jointed cellist? You may as well hold another finger in the wind and thrust one up your arse for all the good it’ll do.

    And those who insist that the fucking Apple start-up chime clanging through the house at midnight waking up offspring because that's the time you've got free to do something is working as designed and is a good thing and under no accounts should you attempt to shut the fucking thing up.

    Programs that mute the chime are the work of the devil and that is why every major version of OS X does something to stop them working. All problems ever can be fixed by the SMC reset, NVRAM reset, and listening for the chime wake everyone up in the house.

    1. Headley_Grange Silver badge

      Midnight Chimes

      I fixed the midnight chime by changing the sleep settings.

      sudo pmset -a standbydelay 86400

    2. Robin

      listening for the chime wake everyone up in the house

      Have you tried disconnecting it from that Marshall amp stack you have it connected to?

    3. Chas

      Some years ago I was working on a three-day open air festival in Manchester. Most of the crew were camped in tents backstage behind the amp and dimmer racks. During the first night, some muppet snuck into my tent and pinched my wallet, a fact I discovered just after dawn had reared its ugly head.

      My "revenge" was achieved by firing up the sound rig about 7:30am, plugging my trusty MBP into the desk and serenading the neighbourhood with the startup chime at a full-throated 25KW, followed by a full-mod recording of a pair of F16 fighter jets doing a low flypast.

      NEVER mess with a noise boy :D

      1. herman Silver badge

        7h30??? you were about 2.5 hours late.

        I would have used the opening of Pink Floyd's 'Time', followed by the chopper in 'The Wall' - You! Yes, You! Get on with it! and then maybe the F16s for good measure.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Press F11?

  7. Xamol
    Trollface

    Technical Fanboi?

    Is it proximity to a Macbook that prevents technically savvy people from doing technically savvy things? Why wouldn't checking on what's loading the system be the first thing you do rather than checking forums with a presumably quite vague fan related query? Maybe it was the shock of the thing simply not just working that caused temporary loss of savvy? Or maybe it was the indignation that prevented normal brain operation; surely this is the kind of thing that only happens with other OS's.

    Well done for getting there in the end though.

    Oh, and it's you're own fault anyway. You're not running the applications correctly...

    1. Xamol
      Headmaster

      Re: Technical Fanboi?

      Oh Deity! Apostrophe hell - in my own post...

      Is there a cure for what I'm feeling right now?

      1. Aladdin Sane Silver badge
        Pint

        Re: Technical Fanboi?

        Beer.

      2. Bloodbeastterror

        Re: Technical Fanboi?

        @Xamol

        The occasional slip of the keyboard is understandable, and at least you recognised it - and also got "***it's*** you're own fault" right. My personal bugbear, all too common in these forums (in fact I read one just a few posts above).

        To educate the illiterate* masses yet again:

        "Its" is the possessive. "The dog wags its tail".

        "It's" is *always* an abbreviation of "It is" or "It has". Never anything else.

        "The dog wags it is tail" and "The dog wags it has tail" makes no sense.

        It's not hard, for God's sake...

        * "Illiterate? Don't know the meaning of the word..."

      3. David 18

        Re: Technical Fanboi?

        I feel your pain, you have my heartfelt condolences.

        Go and say three Hail Mary's (sic) then lie down for a few minutes until the shame passes.

        1. This post has been deleted by its author

  8. Tessier-Ashpool

    Try safari clean start

    Force Quit Safari. Then open it whilst holding the Shift key. This forces a clean start of Safari, which disregards your previous cache of requests to install porn, Dabbsy,

    1. Dan 55 Silver badge

      Re: Try safari clean start

      Force Quit Safari. Then remove it from the dock and/or desktop. Then put Firefox in its place.

      1. Ian Mason

        Re: Try safari clean start

        If there's one thing that's more of a resource hog than Safari, it's Firefox. Firefox is the only thing I've ever run on a Mac that is capable, with nothing else running, of forcing the OS into thrashing.

        1. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

          Re: Try safari clean start

          Re Firefox

          I tend to agree if you use the latest versions. I use the LTS release and don't get any Fan activity due to Firefox.

          Now Photoshop-CS... that is another thing entirely. Just starting it up is guaranteed to start the fans yet the last pre Cloud/subscription version does not. Go figure.

          1. Alistair Dabbs

            Re: Try safari clean start

            I'm finding Chrome surprisingly well-behaved on the Mac, given what a resource hog it has usually been under Windows.

      2. Arctic fox
        Thumb Up

        @Dan 55 "Force Quit Safari. Then remove it from the dock and/or desktop."

        Then bury it at a crossroads with a head of garlic in its mouth and a stake through its heart - you cannot be too sure.

  9. Fitz_

    Well all I can say is... I have a 5-year old MacBook Air and it runs Sierra just fine. No overheating, no fans spinning up (well - unless I visit the awful Odeon website...)

    I'd be checking for any apps, services or launchdaemons you might have installed that might not be Sierra-friendly.

    1. monty75

      My 2010 Macbook Pro used to run nice and quietly. My 2015 one requires ear defenders if I do anything more complicated than checking my emails. I presume Apple's quest for ever slimmer, slinkier kit is creating ever more strain on the airflow.

      1. m0rt Silver badge

        Same here on a 2012. Runs fine. I also don't really use iCloud and my login for the machine isn't linked to the iCloud login, which caused a really weird delay when I signed on after a sleep - couldn't type password for about 2 minutes , but has gone away with installing Sierra.

    2. Philippe

      the Odeon website.

      This thing is an abomination. My personal favourite is to try and use it on a phone.

      That's proper middle age style torture.

      1. tiggity Silver badge

        Re: the Odeon website.

        Why use the Odeon website.

        I find a carefully crafted query in the search engine of Satan tells me what's on at whatever cinema I am interested in, far easier (Google obviously put a fair bit of effort into indexing and managing cinema screening data)

  10. Real Ale is Best

    Also..

    If I leave my MacBook Pro to drop into suspend while my external monitor is attached, it crashes. Every. Single. Time.

    Even unplugging the monitor before trying to resume doesn't work. :-(

  11. monty75

    On El Capitan my Macbook Pro already whirrs enough to worry air traffic control. I think I might pass on Sierra until it's got a few point releases under its belt.

  12. Adam Jarvis

    Rantastic, almost as good as my rants regarding ofcom, BT and pointless G.fast.

    I think you've fallen for the Jony Ive/Apple line, that macbooks don't suffer like PC Laptops, from their fans getting blocked with crud.

    Regarding the overheating, where do I send the Arctic MX2/MX4 Compound to or an Aerosol of Compressed Air?. Every thought something is blocking the fan heat transfer fins? It tends to build up as a wall of fluff between the fan itself and the fins. The extra CPU cycles of macOS Sierra, might have just made something noticeable that wasn't with El Capitan.

    El Capitan is pretty battery efficient and ran really cool (for me) when idle, to a point sleeping El Capitan wasn't much of an issue any more, but its mostly tethered at a desk.

    Apple did seem to find a way to kill off redundant CPU Cycles (processes of Windows behind Windows not visible) in El Capitan. With macOS Sierra though, Apple seems to have decided it could find use for the redundant CPU Cycles with crap like Siri/Search.

    I'm sitting on a macbook right now, in macOS Sierra, its as quiet as a lamb, I'm in Firefox 49.01 though and no, I've never even opened Siri.

    Siri is removed from the Dock. I'm not completely anti-voice, quite surprised how good (and actually useful on Android) 'OK Google' was recently, but if you can touch type, its pretty pointless.

    1. Adam Jarvis

      Re: Rantastic, almost as good as my rants regarding ofcom, BT and pointless G.fast.

      Also, remove Adobe Flash from the macbook. That always helps.

      1. Wensleydale Cheese Silver badge

        Re: Rantastic, almost as good as my rants regarding ofcom, BT and pointless G.fast.

        "Also, remove Adobe Flash from the macbook. That always helps."

        Also, remove Adobe Flash from every system you own. That always helps.

        There, FTFY.

  13. Kevin Johnston

    Amazing

    When Cortana was announced I did question the use of the name in light of how Cortana came to an end. Looks like Apple are showing MS how to implement Rampancy on a PC, perhaps they could Patent it and save the world from overloaded CPUs?

    1. Chris King Silver badge

      Re: Amazing

      "Looks like Apple are showing MS how to implement Rampancy on a PC"

      "Look, your Shiny has gone insane *AND* it's on the List of Vintage & Obsolete Products - can we interest you in a new Shiny ?"

  14. Sgt_Oddball Silver badge
    Devil

    Hang on Dabbsy

    I thought Ryuk liked Apples?

    1. Alistair Dabbs

      Re: Hang on Dabbsy

      Bloody hell, AT LAST! I was beginning to wonder why I bother with these nerd gags if no-one gets them.

      1. Sgt_Oddball Silver badge

        Re: Hang on Dabbsy

        The thing is.... it then leads to further questions, live action, anime or manga? Subbed vs dubbed..... How far down that rabbit hole do you want to go?

  15. Whistlerspa

    mac mini and sierra

    I'm not going to upgrade to this as my mac mini has no microphone and the last update nearly slowed it down enough.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: mac mini and sierra

      Don't worry, you are bound to be able to read a full page article in the Guardian next month, on all the virtues of the new updated (but full glued up) mac mini, which could be surmised to one line 'Now includes microphone for Siri'.

  16. chivo243 Silver badge

    no more kool-aid for Dabbsy

    who in their right mind would even try Siri? It's as bad as the flippin Finder... Somethings Apple just never change.

  17. Steve Button

    105% and Why upgrade?

    You might find that the percentage is of each core, and you've got lots of them.

    Surprised you'd upgrade so soon on a machine that you rely on to do your work (presumably). Seems you only waited a week or less after it came out. Personally I'd have given it a little longer, or not even bothered as the benefits are... (goes to check features)... oh, absolutely nothing useful. Think I'll stick with El Cap for a while.

    1. Steve Button

      Re: 105% and Why upgrade?

      Was curious, so ran a little test. In a terminal I ran :-

      while :

      do

      :

      done &

      and I had to run this 8 times, and all the bash processes went up to around 100% each (and the fan started going). It wasn't until I got to job number 9 that they started to go down. This means that each Core (and with 4 cores and hyperthreading the OS thinks you've got 8 of them) can show around 100% of CPU used.

      You are reading this Dabbys aren't you??

      1. Andy Taylor

        Re: 105% and Why upgrade?

        Yep, 100% = 1 core running at full tilt.

        Running

        yes> /dev/null&

        a few times in the terminal will also exercise the CPU.

  18. Syntax Error

    Iseless Technology

    Never quite understood why manufacturers think I would want to talk to my laptop, phone or Tablet. If I was disabled there might be some use for it or driving a car. Pretty useless technology.

    1. Andy Taylor

      Re: Iseless Technology

      What if you are unable to interact with it in any other way? Far from useless.

    2. TechnicalBen Silver badge

      Re: Iseless Technology

      It's fantastic for searching. But mainly when your not in the mood for typing. For example "Hello Google, play me some Jack Garrat" or "how do I get to such and such".

      I can do this as quick as or quicker than typing, or while also doing other things (so great for music while doing little jobs).

      However, as a *useful* everyday feature? Only really for those tasks, the rest is gimmicks.

  19. steamrunner
    Holmes

    www.sierra.yawn

    Macbook Pro here as well, also updated to Sierra.

    Fans run just the same as they always have (i.e. on and loud if I'm running VM Fusion at the same time as thrashing something else heavily, otherwise just at odd times briefly). Runs as hot as it always has done (i.e. variably). Nothing new in that regard. Battery life, pretty much the same as before - I can still burn my lap for a few hours with no problem.

    Most things 'just' work; not too bad for a point-point-0 update. Yes, I've had a couple of little run-ins with Mail.app, but then again who doesn't. I've also encountered/found a couple of interesting little bug-ettes in Mail, but then again who hasn't. Did I say something about Mail being a little bit fruitcake? I did. Hey ho. Maybe one day Apple will properly fix it, we shall see. Maybe with 10.13. Or 10.14. Or... you get the picture. Rinse and repeat.

    All my weird, low-level, networking and VPN tools all work perfectly fine. In fact, they work even better than before because now I can't accidentally use PPTP any more. Phew. Networking on to four different LANs at the same time as a couple of remote VPNs and Wifi works just the same as it did pre-Sierra (i.e. properly).

    Am I a fan boy? Not if this sh*t breaks I'm not. But, so far, so yawn (and a brief, 'yeah, because Mail' chat around the coffee machine).

    Am I using weird, dangerous brand-new stuff like "optimising my storage"? Am I f*ck. Like 99% of users I'm just doing what I've always done and using what I've always used. Also Siri is cute with the right accent.

    Nothing to see here. Move along.

    1. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

      Re: www.sierra.yawn

      you use the Apple Mail App? Shame on you. It is well known to be a can of worms.

      There are plenty of other Email clients out there that work a whole lot better.

      For my use case, it is Thunderbird (V 38.2.0 at the moment but has not been upgraded for over a year).

      I don't think I have ever opened the MacOS email app in 8 years of using Mac's.

  20. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken Silver badge

    I can't help it - this is always what I think of first when I read or hear "Sierra".

    1. Franco Silver badge

      I tend to think of Leisure Suit Larry and Space Quest personally :)

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sierra_Entertainment

  21. darkcompass
    Flame

    Flash in The Fan

    You've got Flash installed on the machine right?

    :D

  22. Mage Silver badge

    It's obvious

    Apple wants users to buy a iOS ultratablet with keyboard cover and stylus. They'll make far more from iTunes.

  23. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Alistair Dabbs' writing style gives me a headache. Couldn't finish this.

    1. Alistair Dabbs

      Re: Alistair Dabbs' writing style gives me a headache.

      And if it had been a podcast it would give you eye strain?

    2. Toastan Buttar

      Have to disagree

      Best. Dabbsie. Evar.

      Several splutters and genuine LOLs will testify.

  24. hypernovasoftware

    I've had problems with kernel_task sucking up 900+ percent of the cpu which causes the system to become nearly impossible to use. I've never figured out what causes this. This used to happen on El Capitan also.

    The fans do seem to run more than on El Capitan.

    It sucks but the alternatives suck worse.

  25. Barry Rueger Silver badge

    Niagara Hipsters?

    This must be what it feels like for Ontarian hipsters teleworking from a cafe at Niagara Falls, except with less humidity and better tea.

    Spent many hours in Niagara Falls, and even know people who grew up there.

    Trust me, no town that has a "Ripley's Believe It Or Not" museum will ever be "hipster."

    Do check out the Flying Saucer Cafe though.

    1. Jack of Shadows Silver badge

      Re: Niagara Hipsters?

      Ummm, you do realize that San Francisco has such a critter as well? For decades.

  26. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge
    Coat

    Mr. Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang

    Sorry, Samsung, you’re on your own. Bang bang.

    Freudian slip? Dabsy still hoping to be the next 007?

  27. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Format install

    Sounds like you should format the drive and do a fresh install! No issues with Sierra here!

    1. Grunchy

      Re: Format install

      "Sounds like you should format the drive and do a fresh install!"

      BOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

      HISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

  28. Morrolan

    Activity Monitor

    When Activity Monitor shows a process running over 100%, that means it's running on more than one core at the same time with multithreading. Often with multi-core modern Macs the total CPU usage is over 100%, because 100% just means full utilization of one core.

    This is typed on a Mac Mini with SeaMonkey. I've had SeaMonkey lock up on occasion, but really only when I've gone completely out of control and have several dozen tabs open. (Although that's much of the time with me.)

    1. Richard 12 Silver badge

      Re: Activity Monitor

      That is a very odd UI decision, as while you can explain that "It goes up to 800% on a quad core with hyperthreading", it is still very confusing for normal people.

      The Microsoft and Linux way of "Up to 100%, and you can also look at individual core utilisation if you wish" is far more user friendly.

      1. Morrolan

        Re: Activity Monitor

        And VMS too. I don't know why Activity Monitor works that way, it's pretty much the only CPU monitor I've ever seen that does.

      2. jimbo60

        Re: Activity Monitor

        Because it's really an open source Unix system. The "top" command does the same on multi-core systems.

  29. GrumpenKraut Silver badge
    Pint

    FBI Update: 16kg

    Time to celebrate! ------------------->

  30. netdev

    It's not you, it's me..

    <smug mode>I'm delighted to report it doesn't happen to me :) </smug mode>

  31. Slx

    I'm posting this on Siri as a test, well on voice recognition anyway. It's genuinely useful, if, you can't type for some reason. It's also handy for setting alarms and voice dialling!

    Their voice recognition is actually very accurate.

    1. Grunchy

      "Their voice recognition is actually very accurate."

      BOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

      HISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

  32. Chris Stephens
    Big Brother

    The new OS obviously includes the NSA root kit. Big Brother has now indexed and plugged in live to all Apple products. This is not as bat shit crazy as it sounds.

  33. Disk0
    Coat

    It's intentional

    Apple has fans running WILD for Sierra!

  34. herman Silver badge

    Well, if you don't like the plastic doll Siri, don't enable it. Simple as that. The Mac will then run just the same as before the upgrade.

  35. SpiderPig

    Not all non-Apple sw is good.

    Ok, I have updated every apple product I have to macOS, stupid, yes, so don't have a go at me.

    Firstly, after updating, everything was running as slow as a wet week until I complained like crazy to Apple Support and they then had me delete a bunch of stuff and clear out a lot of the temp library files.

    Also, I never use Safari, I miss too much from websites when I do use it, once I double booked air tickets because of its failings and only found out when I checked using Firefox.

    Chrome has huge issues with macOS, to ensure it works all the time and not go rogue on me such as refusing to connect to sites, or presenting blank pages, I now have to clear all the browsing history for the previous week. Also until I did this I could not access the web interface of my NAS.

    Speaking of the NAS, with El Capitan set-up the access and the connections stayed in place, now, I have to physically confirm the connection even though the access is stored in my keychain. Apple support are still trying to find out why this is the case.

    I am now kicking myself for updating so soon, should have waited for the next release which I am sure will come soon as it did with El Capitan.

  36. Delbert Grady

    'less' is sometimes 'more' - unless you're in OS design...

    I ditched BBC Micro's 'round 1990 something, ditched NT4 years after, then moved to Linux proper in 1997, and, whether it's my memory failing, i'm not sure, but i don't remember many OS 'updates' ever really making the hardware seem better..

    I had my fill of overheating laptops, i (foolishly) bought a brand new 17" Packard Bell, and the design was so poor that it overheated installing almost any linux distro, and it shut down, so i had to install linux with the laptop on it's side and a house fan blowing cool air in, underneath, then i could install decent power management once the OS was in, i soon got fed up of that, and the flimsy keyboard which failed three times in the first year, so I bought a Macbook Pro 15 round about 2009 instead and i never looked back, it ran Linux better than the generic black plastic laptops, Apple hardware was good, Snow Leopard was great, and so my music production was moved to OS X, and i moved fully to Macs and now have iMacs and 2 Macbooks,

    As for upgrades, well, If a garage 'updated' my car, and it came back with fuel efficiency down, the radiator constantly boiling over and it took an age to start, and it drove slower, but, on the plus side, did come back with shiny new stereo ashtrays, new seat covers and minimally upgraded steering lock, many of us wouldn't call it much of an upgrade..

    But here in computer world, it doesn't quite work that way, almost every OS update seems to make the device slower, hotter, and more power hungry, in what world is that an update ? i've even noticed this on an Android device too, as well as all three major OS's over the years. I smell a rat.

    I think Yosemite is noticably slower than Snow Leopard, and Apples' lack of security patches for anything a few years old stinks, thus making Snow Leopard insecure and unable to run current software, (where ironically, Windows on the old Mac would give you all the newest software on there, Linux too) forcing users who can't move OS to then run a insecure OS or jump ship.

    Yosemite soon won't get any love either, and will be doomed too, s but is about as far current as i will probably go, I'm not happy with El Capitan, as it is more restricted, and Sierra will be worse still, i have no interest in running either.

    Unless Apple get their **** together, my internet connected iMacs and Macbooks will be then running BSD or Linux, and i'll say 'it was nice while it lasted Apple, thanks for all the hardware' and i'll move on to an OS that isn't going to screw me as often, Apple won't miss me, and i won't miss Apple.

    1. GeezaGaz

      Re: 'less' is sometimes 'more' - unless you're in OS design...

      Couldn't agree more.

      I find it ironic that Apple (once the doyen of UI design) would seem it appropriate to put functionality suited for a mobile device (where typing is a pain) onto a desktop OS. On desktop you have a keyboard and its quicker to type rather than wait for (dumb) Siri to roundtrip to some remote server to try and understand your request! Its so damn obvious its bewildering, and yes M$ adding Cortana to windows, why???

      Sadly the typical approach these days is to simply 'add more shit' thinking (blindly) that it adds more value. All it adds are pointless features, silly constant UI revisions, code bloat and complexity. I keep banging my head against the wall telling people, more features *does not* mean better!

      I guess it does achieve the ultimate aim for these companies though; making perfectly adequate slightly older hardware completely unusable.

  37. FTP900

    MacBook Pro with Sierra.

    Battery life, rubbish, cause? Safari definitely.

    Mail has also given me some smiles since the upgrade, some days apparently I have -1 unread messages.

  38. LizardATwar

    *Round of applause*

    This has to be one of the funniest and spot on articles Ive read this year.

    Well done!

    You nailed it! I have had this past 3 months, the exact same problems - but not with Sierra - I hardly dare to upgrade to that yet! This issue began with a Safari upgrade back in July - the problem was so serious that I thought my computer had actually blown its hard drive.

    I tried everything to resolve the heat, the noise and yes the freezing of the computer, all to no avail until someone suggested I move to Chrome from Safari.

    Thank you for this article - you made my coffee morning.

  39. Albripi

    Last good MacOS

    Last good Mac OS X (ops macOS) was 10.8 Mountin Lion. But the best yet remain 10.6 Snow Leopard. No contest.

  40. Grunchy

    Har! Har! You have a macBOOK prO. From apPLE.

  41. Howard Hanek Bronze badge
    Happy

    There's an App for That

    That will teach how to speak in a monotonal, noninflexive manner.

  42. MagicBoy

    100% CPU = one core

    A quad core hyper threaded i7 will read up to 800%.

    No problems here running Sierra, my MacBook Pro is silent as a crypt, just as it has been under all the previous OS versions.

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