back to article Galaxy Note 7 flameout: 2 in 5 Samsung fans say they'll never buy from the Korean giant again

Samsung's Galaxy Note 7 fiasco continues to erode the South Korean goliath's customer base. Two days ago, the electronics giant said it would stop selling the Note 7 after a series of fires arising from faulty batteries. It also advised Note 7 customers to stop using the device. Now, a survey conducted by ecommerce company …

  1. Ugotta B. Kiddingme

    already doing that

    I refused to buy a Samsung telly after their snooping scandal. Bought Vizio instead and never looked back. I was going to replace my aging Moto G phone with a Samsung around Christmastime but have since decided I'd rather have some other brand of device.

    1. Dan 55 Silver badge

      Re: already doing that

      Vizio's got the same problem...

    2. 404 Silver badge

      Re: already doing that

      Other than checking for firmware updates now and again, my *televisions* are disconnected from my network. I have Raspberries for streaming/accessing video libraries - they're better at it anyway.

  2. quxinot

    I do wonder how many serious gear-heads that won't buy samsung phones are looking carefully at their computer memory and so on.

    In other words, give them a week. Seems that that vast and overwhelming majority have memories measured by the second.

    1. 404 Silver badge

      As long as the Samsung SDXC doesn't burst into flames in my LG G5, I'm good*

      *Still feeling burned by the Galaxy Note 3 getting passed over by Samsung for Marshmallow...

      1. Dan 55 Silver badge
        Joke

        At least you're not still feeling burned by the Galaxy Note 7...

  3. Your alien overlord - fear me

    Most cargo carriers don't want to ship stuff with lithium batteries in them by air. Have had this policy for a number of years. Doesn't mean they don't get shipped, just that they shouldn't.

  4. Andy Non
    Coat

    Just wondering

    What will happen to all the recalled phones? Will there be a fire sale?

    1. Sandtitz Silver badge
      Go

      Re: Just wondering

      Nah, they'll be buried somewhere in Mexico next to the E.T cartridges.

      1. Crazy Operations Guy Silver badge

        Re: Just wondering

        All the ET cartridges were exhumed, so they could throw all of them into the same whole. Of course, if they do send them to New Mexico, it'd be better if they dumped them into one of the weapons test craters that mar the desert out there.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Headmaster

          Re: Just wondering

          hole :O(

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Just wondering

      I heard that they are being sold to the Korean army to use as incendiary grenades.

    3. d3vy Silver badge

      Re: Just wondering

      "What will happen to all the recalled phones? Will there be a fire sale?"

      As its only the batteries that have the issue I imagine someone is furiously working on a device that can reuse as many of the components as possible.... the screens and motherboards could go in pretty much any device - just make it a bit fatter and put a better battery in it...

      1. Lotaresco

        Re: Just wondering

        "As its only the batteries that have the issue "

        It's not the batteries that have the issue. It's the batteries that are overheating but the root cause of the problem appears to be something else. Or you have to accept that two unrelated battery manufacturers would mysteriously both produce batteries with identical faults.

        1. Updraft102 Silver badge

          Re: Just wondering

          Two unrelated battery manufacturers making batteries according to Samsung's design and specifications. It may well be that the design itself is faulty, not that there were errors in manufacturing.

          Lithium ion batteries are sensitive beasts. They use flammable electrolyte within the cells, and it is under pressure. As the battery packs get thinner and thinner, the thickness of the insulation in the cells gets thinner too, and if the material is not up to the task at the thickness specified, a short can occur, and with the power density of lithium ion batteries, it can quickly go into thermal runaway, with the heat from the fire quickly compromising the insulation on neighboring cells and adding them to the conflagration.

          It could also be that the battery charging and protection circuitry was not functioning adequately, but this seems less likely than the above to me. No doubt Samsung knows more than we do about the cause of the fires, but they didn't try to fix it with a firmware update to change the behavior of the battery control system. If that would not be enough, they would not have thought that changing the battery manufacturer would have been the fix.

          All we can do is speculate, of course.

          A little more thickness and a removable battery would seem wise at this point.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Just wondering

            "with the power density of lithium ion batteries, it can quickly go into thermal runaway, with the heat from the fire quickly compromising the insulation on neighboring cells and adding them to the conflagration.

            It could also be that the battery charging and protection circuitry was not functioning adequately,"

            Sounds vaguely familiar. Dreamliner, wasn't it? Who didn't learn what, and why didn't they learn it?

  5. oldtaku
    Devil

    Highly Unlikely

    Consumers have the attention span (and attraction to new shiny things) of magpies.

    If Samsung brings out whatever they're going to call the new Note 8 in a year and it's better than the Note 7 (which was pretty good), and it doesn't burst into flames, then they'll be flocking back. If not in a year for the 'Note 8' then definitely in two years for the 'Note 9'.

    I believe people, like some here, who'd already given up on Samsung before this for crappy bloatware and lack of Android updates, because that's a systemic thing. But people who are giving up FOREVAR just because of the Note 7 thing will mostly be back unless they get distracted by something shinier elsewhere.

    1. DougS Silver badge

      Re: Highly Unlikely

      Why would those who leave come back, unless they are unhappy with whatever brand they switch to? It isn't like Samsung phones are superior to other choices - they've just been the most effectively marketed Android phones thanks to Samsung spending over $10 billion a year to advertise them.

      If they switch to Pixel or HTC, what brings them back to Samsung when they are ready for a new phone a couple years from now?

      1. oldtaku

        Re: Highly Unlikely

        It's not that they don't like their new HTC, but in a year or two when they start getting the itch to buy something new this looks really shiny... Maybe it is just the advertising!

        But also, people who like the Notes REALLY like the Notes. It does a very good job with the stylus. Stuff like LG Stylo is okaaaay but I'm not aware of anything out there that's as good unless you want to go the full on Surface tablet route. Maybe this is an opportunity for someone else to step up.

      2. Lou 2

        Re: Highly Unlikely

        Unfortunately the Samsung phones are superior to other phones, including the Apple copycats.

        Is the size of the company that makes your phone that matters, any other company except Apple can't afford to have a massive recall like that.

        People have short memories - we wil be queuing up for the next Galaxy soon enough.

      3. That_Guy

        Re: Highly Unlikely

        Why downvote this? makes perfect sense. Biased fanbois would rather burn their privates than admit Samsung are trash.

        1. King Jack

          Re: Highly Unlikely

          Re downvotes: Do people queue for Samsung stuff? I thought it was just an Apple thing.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Highly Unlikely

            There's a scale of stupidity. There's not quite enough space at the moronic end for the Samsung idiots amongst the Apple fools.

            Wouldn't buy either myself. A cheapie Android does all I need and the extra cash can be spent on something better.

      4. Loud Speaker

        Re: Highly Unlikely

        As an ex Samsung user, I can state that none of my family was prepared to buy a phone without a removeable battery and SD card, and we sure as hell wont be buying one with no headphone socket either.

        Who cares about thin when they can have battery life and dual SIM? (Now a Huawei user).

        [replacing screen in a Nokia 6120 as I write this].

  6. AJames

    I respect Samsung more now

    Every company has product screwups. You judge them by their reaction. Personally I have considered Samsung and the other Korean companies very weak on service and support in the past, but in this case they did the right thing and halted shipment of a defective product. I respect them more now, not less. I am more likely to buy a Samsung product in the future than I was before.

    1. BillG Silver badge
      Mushroom

      Re: I respect Samsung more now

      but in this case they did the right thing and halted shipment of a defective product. I respect them more now, not less

      No, they did the wrong thing and shipped replacement product that had the same burning smell. That meant that they did not understand the problem, and so instead of recalling all the phones immediately, they shipped replacements with the same problem. The replacements were an act of desperation. It was a failure of management, pure and simple. Samsung does not deserve respect.

      1. Lou 2
        Facepalm

        Re: I respect Samsung more now

        Burnt smell? That is probably your apple crumble.

        Given the massive impact to their bottom line this is as important a recall as I can recall. Owning the problem and calling back ALL phones is not something any other vendor has done.

        You does not deserve to respect Samsung.

        1. DougS Silver badge

          Re: I respect Samsung more now

          You respect them for:

          1) at first giving people the option to return their phones, but not recommending anyone should stop using them

          2) only after the US Consumer Product Safety Commission forced their hand by ordering a formal recall did they tell people they should stop using them

          3) rushed replacement phones out when they clearly had not found the root cause of the problem, because they were worried about bad publicity more than they were worried about insuring their customers had a safe product

          4) because they are worried about offending their customers, they've still done nothing to insure/force Note 7 owners return or even stop using their phones, meaning there are hundreds of thousands still out there being carried onto planes, trains, buses and other places were they potentially endanger the general public

          5) haven't retracted clearly erroneous statements like the claim that "only 1 in 42,000 phones is affected", which is obviously untrue just based on the number of fires reported in the US alone, and they can't know the true odds until they understand what the problem was, which they still don't

          They were never out in front of the problem, always in reactive mode being prodded along by bad publicity (airlines telling people they can't use the phones on flights) and governments (US CPSC) to go beyond the half measures they wanted to do. They still haven't gone far enough until they do something to brick the remaining phones to prevent them from being a continued public menace that could cause further fires in the months to follow.

  7. Jim-234

    Samsung can come back strong if they choose to

    I think if Samsung comes back next year with a strong contender and re-thinks the design a bit, possibly going back to removable batteries, and the phone is truly a top end contender, Samsung should be just fine.

    I have the S7 Edge and wanted a Note 7 but will now wait to see what comes next & if it's good, I'll buy it. My guess is this is causing Samsung enough pain where it counts (Bottom line & Executive salary / bonuses) that Samsung will probably be the safest phone the next go around.

  8. GrumpyKiwi Silver badge
    Mushroom

    Easy choice

    Some people decided never to buy another Samsung phone after theirs caught fire.

    I just had to use a Galaxy-S for 3 months to make that decision.

  9. Sampler

    I'd still like one

    I mean, second hand, once it's been charged and discharged a few times, to make sure it's not one of the kablooey ones, but, the note4 work gave me's rather nice and an upgrade isn't necessary but who doesn't like shiny new..

    1. Dan 55 Silver badge

      Re: I'd still like one

      Well their S4 batteries could start bulging after six months. What makes you think that a Note 7's battery wouldn't go kablooey after six months?

      And you're not getting on a plane with one of those... Ever.

      1. d3vy Silver badge

        Re: I'd still like one

        "And you're not getting on a plane with one of those... Ever."

        Possibly true, but that just highlights the knee jerk reaction to security that we have adopted in the last decade.

        Im heading to florida at the end of the month, in my carry on will be : 3 iPhones, 1 iPad air, 2 iPad Minis, a Nexus 7 (2012) and my Yoga2 Pro laptop, a coulple of nintendo DSs and some other bits like noise canceling earbuds with built in Lithium ion battery. All in all probably around a kilo of batteries. A kilo of potentially explosive material.

        Oh and < 100ml of water.

        1. Gio Ciampa

          Re: I'd still like one

          "Oh and < 100ml of water."

          Just don't put the Lithium in the water...

        2. Loud Speaker

          Re: I'd still like one

          If you want to know how to blow up a plane with 100ml of water, you probably need to join Da 'Esh, cos its not in any physics or chemistry text book in the west, and I am fairly sure that includes ones published before 1960.

      2. Gio Ciampa

        Re: I'd still like one

        Same with my S3 mini - though the (third-party) high-capacity battery I bought to replace the original caused my work laptop to complain that the USB port was drawing too much power... (I wonder if that would have exploded in time...?)

        I gave up on Samsung after that phone - 6 months after release and with one (minor) OS update as far as I could tell (the day I bought it), they gave up supporting it... so off to CyanogenMod it was (for a while, anyway...)

    2. DougS Silver badge

      Re: I'd still like one

      They don't even know what really has caused the problem yet, why are you dumb enough to think that after it has been charged and discharged a few times it will be safe?

      1. That_Guy

        Re: I'd still like one

        The issue is a combination of crappy battery manufacturing combined with no battery heat / charge shutoff regulation. There is information on this. The heat is causing parts inside the battery to short out and then catch fire.

        1. DougS Silver badge

          @That_Guy "there is information on this"

          Yes, outdated information that Samsung relied upon when they did the first recall and thought the replacement phones would be fine. Clearly the batteries were not the problem, as getting two batteries made by different manufacturers BOTH having a problem of unprecedented seriousness is so unlikely as to be not worth considering. The batteries are not the problem, the phone itself is. They just don't know exactly how yet.

  10. HippyChippy
    Stop

    iPhone instead?

    The USP of the Galaxy Note series is its stylus which is invaluble for on the fly note taking; I'm a carpenter and constantly use it for jotting down measurements and making little sketches etc. so any talk of buying an iphone instead is just bollox - there isn't an iphone alternative.

    Hope that's a lesson learnt about glueing the batteries in place - bring on the new Note8 - cash waiting.

    1. Dan 55 Silver badge

      Re: iPhone instead?

      If Apple want to capitalise on this they'll bundle the iPhone 7+ with an Apple Pen which so far has been reserved for the iPad Pro.

      1. d3vy Silver badge

        Re: iPhone instead?

        "If Apple want to capitalise on this they'll bundle the iPhone 7+ with an Apple Pen which so far has been reserved for the iPad Pro."

        Does the iPhone 7+ have the correct type of digitiser? I wouldnt have thought so because of the added cost unless they were planning on making the *PENCIL* (Pen would be too mainstream) work with it.

        Serious question, not even seen an ip7 yet so really dont know.

    2. DougS Silver badge

      Re: iPhone instead?

      Not everyone bought a Note 7 because of the stylus. Some people probably just liked the size. Those people would be fine with an iPhone 7 plus, or Android phablet.

      As for bundling with an Apple Pen. Ewww, I don't want to pay for something I have no interest in using. Anyway, Note 7 users probably wouldn't consider that a viable alternative unless they modified the design to have a place to keep the pen. If they did that I'd definitely not buy one!

    3. tiggity Silver badge

      Re: iPhone instead?

      The carpenter we have used a few times is old skool - he uses a notebook for jotting down measurements, sketches etc.

      Seriously, If it's just quick sketch type of stuff anything with a big enough screen should do as high quality drawing of Sammy stylus solution is not needed for most uses.

      1. Loud Speaker

        Re: iPhone instead?

        If it's just quick sketch type of stuff anything with a big enough screen should do as high quality drawing of Sammy stylus solution is not needed for most uses.

        Have you tried one? You can draw schematics and annotate them with values on a Samsung Note phone. You cant do that on the competition. I believe it is a combination of high-res digitiser, and the stylus providing pressure data, but what would I know, I have only used it.

        As for using pencil and paper, sure, but with the Note, you have it in digital form, and can dump it to LTO tape for archiving. Probably not useful for a one man carpenter, but if you have 1,000 engineers in the field, its a very different proposition.

        It is very nice to be able to send a photo of the circuit to a colleague, and have him sketch the required changes, and send it back - especially if you can do this while on public transport (eg while waiting for a train, not in a bus going over speed bumps :-).

    4. Lotaresco

      Re: iPhone instead?

      "The USP of the Galaxy Note series is its stylus which is invaluble for on the fly note taking"

      Not so unique. If you want a stylus for an iPhone then precision styluses are available. Some of them with mouse buttons (these styluses also work with Android.

      "I'm a carpenter"

      Cool, the Adonit Snap precision stylus (iPhone/Android) looks like a chippy's pencil. As deal, I won't expect you to take advice from me on how to construct a walnut cabinet and I won't expect advice from you on an IT solution. BTW, removable batteries would not have helped in the case of the GN7.

      1. Mage Silver badge
        Facepalm

        Re: iPhone instead?

        The iPhone type capacitive only screen can't do precision, with ANY after market stylus. The phone has to be designed for a stylus of some kind. Most phones since after Nokia 5800 are not

        Precision needs an added resistive screen or a wacom type combo of base + energised stylus.

        1. Lotaresco

          Re: iPhone instead?

          "The iPhone type capacitive only screen can't do precision, with ANY after market stylus."

          The Adonit precision styluses for iPhone and Android do a job that appears as good as Wacom tablet pens or the GN7 stylus. They are not the massive rubber/mesh blobby styluses that are sold at Tesco.

  11. AMBxx Silver badge
    Facepalm

    30% never owned another brand?

    They sure? How long have Samsung being making phones? I'm pretty sure I didn't have a choice of Samsung 20 years ago.

    Maybe all 300 people were under the age of 18?

    1. DougS Silver badge

      Re: 30% never owned another brand?

      The average person didn't have a cell phone 10 years ago, even in wealthy countries. I didn't have my first until 2000, and I only got one because I needed it for work. If it wasn't for that I wouldn't have owned one until less than a decade ago.

      1. That_Guy

        Re: 30% never owned another brand?

        My first was a Nokia Orange 5.1 in '94 most of my friends had similar phones around the same time.

        http://www.mobilephonehistory.co.uk/nokia/nokia_2140.php

        What's interesting is a shift in support. If I had a problem with the phone while under contract, a man in a van came out and _replaced_ it, no questions asked within a few hours 24/7.

        As for never having owned another brand, I agree except for the suspect statistic. Countless times I hear people ask about my phone and say things like is it a samsung, does it work like a samsung, or that they wouldn't know how to use a non-samsung phone. As if Android was that diverse. So there is the idea that other phones are unapproachable hurdle to get over.

        I think samsung will recover, slowly over a number of years, but not to their former position. People will forget about the latest hot samsung merely beacause enough people looked elsewhere and found that there's so much more out there.

      2. AceRimmer

        Re: 30% never owned another brand?

        "The average person didn't have a cell phone 10 years ago,"

        You're getting old. 10 years ago, everyone had a mobile phone

        20 years ago, maybe not

      3. d3vy Silver badge

        Re: 30% never owned another brand?

        "The average person didn't have a cell phone 10 years ago, even in wealthy countries. I didn't have my first until 2000, and I only got one because I needed it for work. If it wasn't for that I wouldn't have owned one until less than a decade ago."

        I know this is going to be a shock... it took me by surprise... But the 90s were 20 years ago.

        I know, Right?!?

        But anyway Im only part joking, the mid-late 90s was when pay as you go phones first came about and 15 year old me thought he was the dogs danglies with his *ANALOGUE* vodaphone handset where calls cost 60p a minute and half of your £15 voucher (it was all you could get) was a service charge.

        The above is true of the UK, I dont know what country you are in but I cant imagine that many phone companies were far behind given the massive profits that PAYG brought them though new people to sell to.

        My experience is that by '98/99 pretty much everyone I know (Id have been around 17/18) had a phone. So I disagree with your assessment that the average person didnt have a phone more than 10 years ago.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: 30% never owned another brand?

          "My experience is that by '98/99 pretty much everyone I know (Id have been around 17/18) had a phone."

          To be fair, your peer group probably wasn't typical of the population as a whole. After rich professionals, I'd say that older teenagers, students and twentysomethings were probably the first to adopt mobiles en masse when they became affordable enough in the late 90s.

          That said, we're only quibbling about 18 months or so; when they took off, they took off *quickly*.

          Even my parents got their first mobile phone at Christmas 2000- shortly after I did, and that's because I'd returned to university and everyone else had one!- so it's a sign they were approaching (if not already at) "every man and his dog" status by that point. :-)

          Ten years ago (i.e. 2006)? Every man's dog was already on his third phone by then. (^_^)

          Edit: An analogue phone?

          1. d3vy Silver badge

            Re: 30% never owned another brand?

            Yeah, that's me in the red at the back. :)

  12. Great Southern Land

    Tip of the Iceberg?

    In Australia, we've had problems with Samsung washing machines catching fire as well

  13. 2Fat2Bald

    It's probably the consumers fault. "Holding it wrong", or something....

  14. markd74

    The Note 7 on flames is still a more appealing prospect than its competitors. I'm looking about for something to replace it with and it's a sea of mediocrity.

    1. That_Guy

      That cool-aid though.

      1. MrXavia

        That's fact, what other phablet is there with a built in real stylus? not just some preasure insensitive capacitive junk

        1. d3vy Silver badge

          "That's fact, what other phablet is there with a built in real stylus? not just some preasure insensitive capacitive junk"

          LG make one, I had a play with it in the phone shop a few weeks ago.. Seemed ok.

          However I used it for a few minutes and dont really have experience with a note so nothing to compare it to... maybe worth loooking at though.

          1. Down not across Silver badge

            LG make one, I had a play with it in the phone shop a few weeks ago.. Seemed ok.

            However I used it for a few minutes and dont really have experience with a note so nothing to compare it to... maybe worth loooking at though.

            If you had used Note 7 you would know they're nothing alike.

            Given the popularity of Samsung Note, it is strange there is no competition. None at all. I suppose Samsung must have it patented so tight that nobody gets a look in.

            1. 404 Silver badge

              I thought the Note 3 was the end all, be all of my phone needs and wants, figured the stylus would be a better way to get signatures for CC payments on my phone instead of just a finger doodle on a screen. Quite possible I would have waited for the Note 7 - if Samsung hadn't obsoleted my Note 3 less than 2 years into contract - no Marshmallow for you, 404! Thus far I'm pretty happy with my LG G5, gets regular updates, removable battery, SD card slot, and better cameras than that Pixel I'm hearing so much about.

              Funny thing about my Note 3 - I never, ever, took a CC payment on it, either cash, check, or invoiced. Weird.

        2. Down not across Silver badge

          That's fact, what other phablet is there with a built in real stylus? not just some preasure insensitive capacitive junk

          There isn't. Nothing out there even close to the capabilities of the Note 7's stylus implementation.

      2. markd74

        That conspicuous lack of decent alternatives though

  15. Christopher Reeve's Horse

    When will they learn...

    If only you could, like, just change the battery? Just like you could when phones were slightly more sensible.

    It's not the risk of exploding that's made me decide not to buy Samsung, it's creeping design decisions moving away from what I want as a customer. I want:

    - replaceable battery

    - SD slot

    - Android as close as possible to stock

    - no impossible to remove crapware

    - regular and timely updates for security and features

    - a lifespan guarantee of the above for minimum 3 years.

    - water/dust proof (the S5 mini has this and removable battery, so can be done)

    - a headphone jack!

    Call it a Homer Simpson phone if you want, but if you can get the above (and good modern screen and camera like the Note 7 too) then I'd be in the queue. I wouldn't mind in the slightest if the result was 1mm thicker than the competition or whatever.

    Maybe I'm wrong, maybe the problem of battery degradation over time has been solved? Or perhaps not...

    1. Planty Bronze badge

      Re: When will they learn...

      Sony have been making your phone for 2 years already. It's now on the 3rd generation of your described product

      1. Lotaresco

        Re: When will they learn...

        "Sony"

        Sony BMG copy protection rootkit scandal

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: When will they learn...

          of ffs, get over it....

    2. Lotaresco

      Re: When will they learn...

      "If only you could, like, just change the battery? "

      If only, like, that would have helped in this case. Your GN7 battery is on fire. You eject it and its load of caustic lithium ash and now you have some part of a phone and a battery that is still on fire. You probably also need treatment for the third degree heat and chemical burns you now have from frantically trying to eject the battery. Samsung love to put their batteries under a difficult-to-remove cover and you need a screwdriver, knife, spoon (or a stylus!) to prise the battery out of the case.

      It's faster to dump the phone + battery, so no advantage there.

      It may be that you idea was that it would be easy to cure the problem by changing the battery? That didn't work in this case, the problem appears to not be the battery. Samsung changed supplier and the batteries still overheated.

      Removable batteries are, I'm afraid, for people who are from the past. They introduce as much of a problem as they solve. You do realise that on phones with a non-removable battery that the battery can still be replaced, don't you?

      I'm still not sure why people are ranting about headphone jacks either. I have a phone with no headphone jack, I can still use my ludicrously expensive earphones with it, by plugging the earphones into an adapter that never leaves the earphones then the adapter plugs into the phone.

      1. 9Rune5

        Re: When will they learn...

        "Samsung changed supplier and the batteries still overheated."

        I thought LiIon battery cells were supposed to contain circuitry to protect against overcharging? That was, after all, the main reason why consumers were told not to buy cheap third-party batteries.

        I hope they can pinpoint the culprit before long. I only have a Sony, but I still feel safer with it resting on the table rather than on the pillow or in my pants.

        Oh... and its display panel is peeling off. Supposed to be IP67 certified, but I guess the glue they used weren't. My boss have experienced similar peeling issues. So I am not going to buy Sony again. That leaves... Hrm.... A Windows phone perhaps? :P

      2. Jim-234

        Re: When will they learn...

        " Removable batteries are, I'm afraid, for people who are from the past. They introduce as much of a problem as they solve. You do realise that on phones with a non-removable battery that the battery can still be replaced, don't you?"

        While you are probably technically correct, here is a bit of a test for you.. Try changing the battery in your iPhone 6 or a Samsung Galaxy 7 or any other similar current generation "non removable battery" phone & let me know how that goes....

        I'm betting it takes a lot longer than the 1 minute or less it takes to swap out the battery on my old Samsung Note 4, or my older Note 3.

        Also did you do it right or did you break the phone while trying to pry the glue apart?

        If Samsung had kept the removable battery in their Note 7, they would not be out 5 Billion+ dollars, it would be a simple matter of sending a new battery to the stores / customers.

        Sleek cool looking phones are great for a lot of people... the ones you see about 6 months later with spiderweb cracks on their screens... like just about all 20 year olds I know.

        Some of us, immediately put our expensive phones in large protective cases, so they survive for several years & can possibly be passed down to the young people (who will then pull them out of the case and break them). So a bit bigger / bulkier by a millimeter or two is not going to make a difference.

        Samsung needs to get back to the basics of why for the note.

        The note line should not be the "fashion" line but should be the line for professionals who want to get work done & have the best of the best specs & like a bit more ruggedness & options.

        1. Lotaresco

          Re: When will they learn...

          Battery anxiety seems to affect people in the same way that they get range anxiety in electric cars or in LPG cars where people start to panic about how far apart the filling stations are.

          "Try changing the battery in your iPhone 6 or a Samsung Galaxy 7 or any other similar current generation "non removable battery" phone & let me know how that goes...."

          Very well on the occasions that I have done it[1]. I'm not hamfisted and I'm used to working on electronic devices so it's hardly a source of stress. The companies that sell replacement batteries also supply video instructions, tools and lists of "gotchas". It's something that needs to be done about every four years - by which time most people will have upgraded their phones and will not need a battery replacement.

          Here's how difficult it is for the iPhone 6.

          Remove two screws and lift the front panel using a suction cup; Remove the battery connector; Remove the cables that connect the front panel to the logic board; Remove the adhesive tabs holding the battery in place; Lift the battery from the phone; Replace the battery; Assembly is the reverse of disassembly.

          About 30 minutes the first time you do it, about 10-15 after that.

          I've lost track of how many replaceable battery phones I have owned over the years, starting with a Nokia "Matrix" analogue phone in 1995. I bought a spare battery for my 6310i at the time that I bought the phone. I never used it. All the Samsungs that I have owned since then have had replaceable batteries - I've never replaced any of them.

          Given the longevity of the battery why cart around the bulky and heavy locking mechanism and socket that a removable battery demands?

          I've seen people saying they need a second battery for when the first runs out. My phone gets hammered during the working day. I use a satnav application during my commute for traffic alerts. I phone and text people all day long. I used office apps to write and edit documents, I scan documents to PDF using the camera and in the evening I use social media, use the phone as a remote for my TV/media box and spend time on the administration of a Linux server using SSH from the phone. The battery reads 50% by midnight.

          If I'm going somewhere where access to an electrical outlet is unlikely then I carry a powerbank battery and I can recharge the phone four times before that is exhausted.

          I'm fairly convinced that the battery whiners and the micro SD whingers are just locked into a way of working and can't see an alternative that is as good or even better.

          Micro SD? My phone has 256GB of storage, why would I need a card? I can store all of my music and several videos on the phone as well as my entire photo collection. I can use a cloud drive for backup / storage if I want to access "stuff" on an occasional basis and share "stuff" with my other mobile devices. The debate around these issues reminds me of the 80s with people complaining about losing the 5.25in floppy drive on their PC. Within months most of them had realised that the replacement was better and I didn't get angry users stamping into my office to demand a "proper" disk drive. The same with this battery and storage yammer, it will die down in a few months and people will wonder what all the fuss was about.

          [1] For other people. I've never needed to do this for myself. I suspect some people abuse their phone and don't expect battery damage to occur. Leaving the phone in hot cars in summer, constantly re-charging every time the meter drops below 90%, etc.

          1. toughluck

            Re: When will they learn...

            @Lotaresco:

            My phone gets hammered during the working day. I use a satnav application during my commute for traffic alerts. I phone and text people all day long. I used office apps to write and edit documents, I scan documents to PDF using the camera and in the evening I use social media, use the phone as a remote for my TV/media box and spend time on the administration of a Linux server using SSH from the phone. The battery reads 50% by midnight.

            I call bullshit. What is that wonder phone?

            If I'm going somewhere where access to an electrical outlet is unlikely then I carry a powerbank battery and I can recharge the phone four times before that is exhausted.

            4 times from a power bank means that it's either a huge capacity power bank or a typical one, but the phone itself has a low capacity battery, which further makes your claim of day-long endurance completely dubious..

            Micro SD? My phone has 256GB of storage, why would I need a card? I can store all of my music and several videos on the phone as well as my entire photo collection.

            Except you can take out the micro SD card out of the phone and copy files to and from the phone without the use of additional software.

            Your phone may have 256 GB built in, but the vendor has the final say in what you can use to access it (good bye USB mass storage) and what goes into the phone (want to copy your legally-owner music and videos? No. You have to buy it from the Appgle Play App Store.

            1. Lotaresco
              Headmaster

              Re: When will they learn...

              "I call bullshit."

              You can "call" what you like, it's just abuse and reflects badly on you.

              "What is that wonder phone?"

              It's an iPhone 7.

              "4 times from a power bank means that it's either a huge capacity power bank"

              10AH, not particularly large. The iPhone's battery is 2AH.

              Rearrange these words to form a popular phrase "math the do".

              "you can take out the micro SD card out of the phone and copy files to and from the phone without the use of additional software."

              Thank you for that insight into what removable media is for. I'm rolling my eyes at this point.

              "Your phone may have 256 GB built in, but the vendor has the final say in what you can use to access it (good bye USB mass storage) and what goes into the phone (want to copy your legally-owner music and videos? No. You have to buy it from the Appgle Play App Store."

              I suspect you have not been keeping up to date with the latest developments since Mr Babbage's Analytical Engine. I suppose it's just possible that I am hallucinating about having my entire CD collection on my phone... no, I checked it's still there. I'm probably hallucinating about the DVD titles that are on my phone... no, I checked they are still there.

              There are multiple ways to flay a feline.

              I can use File Explorer to download the content from my NAS.

              I can use iTunes to copy the content to my phone.

              I can use iExplorer to mount the phone as a USB drive and copy files to it via the OS.

              So, sorry chum but you're just plain wrong and probably very out of date. I've been able to load content I own that I have not bought from Apple to all of my "i" devices, iPod (Classic), iPod nano, iPad, iPhone 4 and iPhone 7. The vendor does not prevent me from doing this.

        2. d3vy Silver badge

          Re: When will they learn...

          iPhone batteries are a piece of piss to swap. they have a tear away strip to remove the glue.

          I'll admit you're not going to be doing it out an about, you need a torx screwdriver a Phillips a light and a steady hand, but of the many reasonable criticisms of apple, the ease of swapping their batteries and screens is very low on the list, it really is a 5 minute job.

  16. AceRimmer
    Flame

    Its the Samsung LNG carriers that I'm really worried about

    1. Dan 55 Silver badge
      Mushroom

      They'll be shipping back crates of Note 7s.

  17. Robert Heffernan

    I still want one.

    Every manufacturer at one time or another will have this kind of problem, it doesn't need to destroy them.

    Ok, so fair enough there was a flaw in the production of the batteries that caused them to catch fire but the battery is removable and replaceable by the user.

    I still want one because I really love the platform, the phone fits well with my lifestyle and has good battery life (when it's not going up in flames)

    1. Lotaresco

      Re: I still want one.

      "Ok, so fair enough there was a flaw in the production of the batteries that caused them to catch fire"

      People keep saying this. It's not true. Two battery makers, different battery assembly, identical problem. Fault elsewhere.

  18. Jinen

    An unrecognised feature.

    Consumers need to understand that this issue revolves around an undisclosed feature of the Galaxy Note 7. It serves as a lighter as well as a smartphone.

  19. Frank N. Stein

    Up in smoke...

    Samsung might want to sell more appliances. Their Note line won't recover from this debacle.

    1. Down not across Silver badge

      Re: Up in smoke...

      Maybe not. I think it will tho. Note 7 was a disaster yes. However it was truly remarkable product the little time I had to use it before having to send it back. Twice.

      Most companies have issues with products at time. And yes it was catastrophic, but they dealt with it. I'd rather they had spent bit longer investigating after the first recall before rushing replacements out, but shit happens.

      There is nothing in the market that compares to the Note. Unless that gap in the market gets filled by some other manufacturer, then I (and I suspect many other Note users) will buy the next version when (or I suppose if) one becomes available.

  20. Bucky 2

    Never is such a long time

    I probably won't buy a Samsung phone in the near future, but "never"?

    I think 40% of the people surveyed are being hysterical.

  21. Agent Tick

    Note 7 - Electrical design flaws...

    ... won't go away by swapping the phone or battery. The whole story just shows that Samsung never created this phone's circuitry and this is where outsourcing bites you in the b*...

    even worse there is nothing that can be learnt from - it's the curse of outsourcing biting all big manufacturers (recalls) no matter which industry.

  22. Shane McCarrick

    I'm not deserting them.....

    Just spent a grand on Samsung kitchen white goods over the last 2 days- nice cooker, oven, microwave and an 8kg Ecobubble washing machine. The 5 years parts and labour warranty sold me on it (though to be brutally honest- I got very good prices on display and end of line models). I don't see how or why I should desert Samsung- sure, they've a few problems with the Note 7- but hey, show me a successful company that hasn't come a cropper at one stage or another.

    Samsung- are going to be around for a long time to come. Their business spans vastly different industries- wholly aside from their computers/phones- they have vast other electronic businesses- their kitchen wares- and of course- their biggest business of all- that very few people in these climates seem to be aware of- they are one of the worlds biggest ship builder........

    If you want to see electronics running very very hot- install the latest update on your powerbook- its quite remarkable that a software update has managed to nuke my old laptop in this manner........

    Give them a break- they pushed battery technology into realms it shouldn't have been introduced to- and have paid the ultimate price. However- other manufacturers are far from saints in this respect- you don't have to look far to see very similar stories from HTC, Apple, One, Huawei and a score of other lesser known manufacturers.

    Odds are they'll use the whole, expensive, episode as a sandbox exercise, learn from it, move on- and create more products that people will rave about in due course.

    Personally- I've never had a Samsung phone- I do have a 10 year old Samsung plasma panel which is still going strong- my phone is a HTC (One M8S) and I've both HP and Apple laptops. I've no allegiance to any particular manufacturer- I do however hate to be ripped off- and I can't justify paying Samsung's or Apple's prices- when my pre-existing hardware is more than capable of doing anything I throw at it (or in the case of my HP Workstation- I can upgrade it when I need to- damn BIOS whitelists though- bane of my life)..

    Most of these companies could do with a large ladle of humble spoon- and a lesson in actually taking care of their customers. In that respect- Samsung- with its global recall- may in fact be an industry leader in showing others how to make the most of a bad situation.

    Anyone know any retailers flogging Note 7s at a significant discount- toss me some tips, my HTC One M8S is getting a bit long in the tooth..........

    1. Lotaresco

      Re: I'm not deserting them.....

      "Just spent a grand on Samsung kitchen white goods over the last 2 days- nice cooker, oven, microwave and an 8kg Ecobubble washing machine."

      I have several Samsung appliances and a laptop, Smart media box and a few phones, mostly of the dumb, simple variety. These things work well enough and some, such as the oven, work extremely well, better than very expensive alternatives. But I'm not sure that excellence in manufacturing one type of consumer appliance indicates excellence in other types of manufacture.

      I'm happy to accept the GN7 was a cock-up but I'm not daft enough to want to own one. It's a flawed design and if you have one you won't be able to fly with it, for good reason. Every flight I've taken for the past month has had the cabin crew asking people to declare that they have a GN7 and to switch it off for the duration of the flight. I'll expect that to change to "banned from flying with one" soon if not now.

      As to recall, they botched that.

  23. Dave Fox

    If I were Samsung, I'd accept that the brand has been damaged, and try to win it back based on the one factor that consumers care about the most - price!

    For the S8, they should make the best phone they possibly can, and then sell it practically at cost or even at a loss. Once they've won back the customers, they can start pushing up prices again on later devices.

  24. Oflife

    Idiot public

    I and my family have owned or own the following Samsung products:

    Galaxy S2 (Wow, such a huge screen - back then)

    Galaxy Nexus (lovely curved display!)

    2 x Note 4 (Sold one, missed it, so got another)

    Large fridge (LED fridge light, oooh!)

    Touch controlled halogen kitchen hob (Easy to clean, superb touch panel UX)

    EX2F camera (Superb images and built like a tank)

    Small wireless laser printer (Well designed, fast and reliable)

    Just bought a Galaxy S7 (All good so far!)

    For the record, I am typing this on a Mac mini and own an iPad Pro 9.7, so not a fan boi of any specific brand, just buy what works, and my number one prerequisite is reliability/stability, followed by speed followed by versatility, and then if it's portable, battery life.

    My Note 4s both suffered proximity sensor failure soon after purchasing new, and on both occasions, Carphone Warehouse & Samsung repaired them under warranty, no questions answered. A known issue perhaps?

    Other than that, I have found Samsung gear to be outstanding, and more reliable and innovative in some ways than their competitors, including Apple. (Example: Swipe to send a text on Touchwhiz is invaluable.)

    From both a consumer and professional level (I interact with Samsung staff and know former employees), the company DOES have some issues when it comes to customer relations, but like Sony and others, this is because they are an Asian company and the pride and national history means for a very different culture. Although Apple are superb when you have an issue and walk into a (real) Apple Store, they are just as arrogant when you phone their support lines. (I know, I have done it a few times, and didn't like the way they tried to deny there was a well known problem, such as MacBook wake/sleep issues or other. And they rip you off support wise after only 90 days of ownership!)

    Samsung gear is on the whole built very well, second only to Apple, although my new S7 is very nice and in my opinion superior to even the iPhone 7 from all aspects, from design to features to quality.

    I am willing to bet that the majority of this 30% are paranoid Americans or naive consumers elsewhere who have not read into the statistics or waited until the investigation by both Samsung and the authorities is complete and public.

    It is company pride and a cultural issue which is why Samsung acted the way they did, not with an intent to do harm. They know full well that just one fatality or worse would mean massive lawsuits and way more harm to the company than even the current fiasco.

    I'm keeping my S7 until the 'Note 8' appears, and am also very interested in the new leaked Samsung Chromebook with a stylus, no doubt Samsung will have a few spare S-Pens now! ;)

    Anyway, uninformed paranoia or naivety is a force for harm, making things worse than they need be.

    Oh, and if I could get my hands on a Note 7 (am a stylus man, frees the creative brain!), I would happily buy one and keep it on me. Statistics say I am more likely to be hit by a bus whilst texting and walking than it exploding in my pocket...

    1. Lotaresco

      Re: Idiot public

      "my new S7 is very nice and in my opinion superior to even the iPhone 7 from all aspects"

      Not all aspects. The S7 Snapdragon 820 is "quite a bit" slower than the A10 in the iPhone 7.

      "When compared to the Galaxy S7, the iPhone is 40 percent faster on multi-core performance and about twice as fast on single-core performance." [source: PC World Magazine]

  25. Lotaresco

    Italy returns Galaxy Note 7s to South Korea

    Italian news sources cover the first return shipment of Galaxy Note 7s via the port of Ancona.

    Truck shipping Galaxy Note 7 phones to the port of Ancona.

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