back to article Windows updates? Just trust us, says Microsoft executive

At Microsoft's recent Ignite event in Atlanta, The Reg sat down with Brad Anderson, Corporate Vice President of Enterprise Client and Mobility. Brad Anderson is a Microsoft veteran who oversees how Windows and mobile devices are managed in business. A decade ago it was simple: firewall-protected network, Windows PCs, and …

  1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    "As we build confidence with IT pros"

    Maybe he should get out more and read what IT pros actually think about Microsoft because there's a huge assumption built into that statement.

    1. NoneSuch
      Holmes

      Trust is earned. Microsoft and I have had a rocky relationship for decades.

      Trust them? No. I prefer Ronald Reagan, "Trust, but verify."

      1. a_yank_lurker Silver badge

        @Nonw\eSuch - It should be for Slurp "Verify then trust". Reagan was dealing with reasonably honorable Soviet leaders not Slurp.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Headmaster

          All take at MSFT

          Trust is earned

          Piss is taken

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: All take at MSFT

            Trust is earned.

            Not given away...

            Take note MS..

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        You prefer Reagan eh?

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mb1GfP5Rwys

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        re. Trust, but verify

        ironically, the saying originally comes, if I remember correctly, from a comrade Dzerzhinsky, the head of infamous Cheka.

    2. Novex

      "As we build confidence with IT pros"

      Maybe he should get out more and read what IT pros actually think about Microsoft because there's a huge assumption built into that statement.

      I agree, wholeheartedly.

      As for all the statements in the article, where the fuck do I start? Almost everything in them seems to be damage limitation and a serious attempt to try and pull the wool over the eyes of businesses everywhere. Just why the hell should any professional I.T. bod think that MS will ever be trustworthy for data security? They're no better than Google, Apple or Facebook in that regard, and if you 'buy' wholesale into Windows 10, they have your PCs by the balls. All they want to do is snoop the data so they can chuck crapware adverts all over their customers. And of course, avoid the Windows 7 retention issue, which looks like it might become the new XP.

    3. Dave K Silver badge

      Trust needs to be earned.

      Binning your QA department and relying on volunteers is not a good way to build confidence and trust.

      Bundling adware and malware (GWX, IE advertising) with your updates is also not a good way to build confidence and trust.

      Releasing a number of major Windows 10 updates that have broken things in various ways is also not a good way to build confidence and trust.

      Trust has to be earned. Right now, MS seem to be doing everything in their power to lower the quality of updates and to harm that trust, then they're telling us to let them update everything for us, and are implementing blocks so that updates on some classification of machines are forced.

      And they're wondering why Windows 10 has received an iffy reception amongst IT Pros?

      1. nematoad Silver badge

        Re: Trust needs to be earned.

        Trust if you must but who carries the can when things go wrong, as they will?

        You for trusting an external entity, your IT department or MS who, in this scenario, seem to have the majority of control?

        Your choice of course. Me, I'll stick to something a bit more controllable

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Previous life, Mr Anderson worked at Yahoo!

      Mr Anderson worked at Yahoo! in a previous life, by the looks of it.

      (We can only hypothesise what Mr Anderson would be saying right now if Microsoft had bought Yahoo!, back in the day)

    5. ecofeco Silver badge

      It's the assumption that he will still get a huge paycheck no matter what.

      Hubris isn't cheap, you know.

    6. Naselus

      Fairly sure almost all of us have endured a long, abusive relationship with MS for a long, long while now. They were shitty to us for a long time; recently, they're been trying to make it up to us when they realised some of us were seeing RHEL on the side, and yeah, they've undeniably done some nice things lately. But this all sounds a little bit too much like 'oh c'mon baby, just gimme one more chance...'

  2. Florida1920 Silver badge
    Childcatcher

    Trust us

    Windows 10 is good for you. Really. Remember how Mum made you eat the spinach? It's just like that.

    Windows 10 Spinach is back. This week, MS tried to get me to install snoopy KB2952664. No, thanks! And I still hate spinach.

    1. Daniel von Asmuth Bronze badge
      Big Brother

      Re: Trust us

      This is the company that gave the world 'trustworthy computing'.

      1. Stoneshop Silver badge
        Headmaster

        'trustworthy computing'.

        It's been misspelled since launch, because it's actually "thrustworthy computing". I need not explain in which direction it should be thrusted, do I?

    2. Doc Ock

      Re: Trust us

      Perhaps you should file an antitrust suit ?

      ba dum tsss

      1. Disk0
        Thumb Up

        Re: antitrust suit

        I should start wearing one of those over my asbestos longjohns...

    3. Gray
      Holmes

      Re: Trust us

      Anderson said: "So we can take a look at the user’s identity, the device they are working on, the app that they are using on the device. We can also take a look at telemetry coming in from our partner ecosystem."

      GawdAlmighty... I can hear NSA, CIA, DIA, FBI, DHS... all salivating and cheering and back-slapping in ecstatic fits of joy! Finally... every Windows computer around the globe, "phoning home" and ... say! Isn't that data retention center in the Utah desert ready for an expansion? By an order of magnitude, perhaps?

    4. yoganmahew

      Re: Trust us

      And spinach isn't actually good for you (any more so than any other green leafy vegetable), that was an advertising slogan your gullible mother bought into. So why don't you be a good drone and do the same.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Linux

        Re: Trust us

        Indeed. This is actually a very serious problem. Chronic exposure is now being implicated in causing the habitual user a catalogue of serious disorders:

        Hypertension,

        Anal retention,

        Anaemia,

        Stroke,

        etc...

        ..and spinach isn't much better either.

        Probably best to minimise exposure to both by substituting more palatable alternatives wherever possible.

    5. Andy Livingstone

      Re: Trust us

      and KB2976978

      1. TRT Silver badge

        Re: Trust us

        Spinach can be great, done right. A decent saag aloo... lovely. Boiled spinach in a lumpy green mess of slime? Yuck.

        1. Dwarf Silver badge
          Joke

          Re: Trust us

          Perhaps Microsoft should try Windows 10 Sag Aloo edition ?

  3. Doc Ock

    The moment someone says "Trust Me" it's time to pull out the bullshitometer and watch the needle hit the red zone.

    1. This post has been deleted by its author

    2. Barry Rueger Silver badge

      No, I trusted the flack entirely until:

      "Credential Guard stores your credentials in a way that it is impossible for an attacker to get credentials. "

      "Impossible."

      Uh huh......

      1. Updraft102 Silver badge

        Right after he said you can eliminate passwords with "Hello," and that would lead to increased security.

        1. TRT Silver badge

          there's a few things to iron out...

          And when you do remove the creases... it would lead to increasedsecurity.

          Makes sense now.

      2. Antron Argaiv Silver badge
        Childcatcher

        "Impossible"

        In much the same sense as the Titanic was "unsinkable"

        Pride goeth before a fall...

    3. MotionCompensation

      Trust is like silence

      Once you start talking about trust, it's not there anymore. MS has just acknowledged they have lost our trust.

    4. cd / && rm -rf *
      Thumb Up

      "The moment someone says "Trust Me" it's time to pull out the bullshitometer and watch the needle hit the red zone"

      If I could upvote that a million times, I would.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Okay. Sure. I'll (for arguments sake only) give them that, in the long run, the sum total of patches will improve the system.

    The problem is that by letting them all in, I'm stuck living with the crappy ones until they deign to fix'em. With a track record that includes 20 years with holes in place, I'm not willing to take those risks.

  5. zero2dash

    Surely no one is this daft

    “...organisations should rely on Microsoft...”

    “...sometimes we release updates that break something...”

    You sir are a special kind of stupid, one that is largely unseen and the stuff of legend.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Surely no one is this daft

      "At Ignite, Microsoft refused to give the press numbers for Windows 10 Enterprise take-up alone."

      No kidding!

      Still, it's not like they ever were the sort of company to let a good failure get in the way of spin & hype...

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Windows

    >This is based on Azure Active Directory (AAD), as used by Office 365. Businesses using Active Directory on-premises can set up synchronisation with AAD using various tools.

    We migrated to 365 and were told to keep on premises exchange incase Azure goes TITSUP, by MS support ... anon for obvious reasons.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Never been seen?

      ...exchange for when Azure goes TITSUP, Shirley?

  7. Ken Moorhouse Silver badge

    "conditional access policy"

    Yes, I've had some customers at the receiving end of that policy.

    When the "signals/telemetry" comes back with GIGO-style results and refuses to allow you to use the software that you as the licensee are entitled to use - this is the reason for healthy dollops of scepticism.

  8. This post has been deleted by its author

    1. Montreal Sean

      Re: A Trip To The Doctors (Dr Microsoft)

      Having recently entered my 40s, I'm resigned to the fact I'll need to bend over and spread 'em for my doctor on an annual-ish basis.

      But no way will I do the same for Microsoft.

      1. TRT Silver badge

        Re: A Trip To The Doctors (Dr Microsoft)

        Prostrate? It's a requirement.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Headmaster

          Re: A Trip To The Doctors (Dr Microsoft)

          The verb or the adjective?

          A requirement for the doctor or the Microsoft Corporation?

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    El Reg sat down with....? Wow!

    is that some kind of record?

    We all know your ongoing sage with Apple but to sit down with someone in the know at MS.... Wow...

    All I can hope is that you directed said MS spokesperson to read some of the Vitriol that appears here whenever MS messes around with the updating process.

    We (well, I was but not now) are on the sharp end of their crap decision making. We have to shelter our end users from the crap patched that you MS put out in the hope that....

    1) we don't notice

    2) they actually fix the issue (history says not)

    Come on El Reg, tell us what you used to beat this MS honcho around the head with so that the crappiness of the shit they release is driven home.

    Oh, and if we were going to update/downgrade to Windows 10, we would have done it by now so for effing craps sake stop it.

    Now going for another beer in the hope that it will help me forget MS until monday.

    1. Donkey Molestor X

      Re: El Reg sat down with....? Wow!

      whoever from MS sat down with somebody from El Reg probably knows that most people who threaten to "leave Macro$$$uck 4evar" are just the loud minority and that they aren't worth the attention.

      i'm practically a philanthro-fucking-pist for endeavouring to do so, right now:

      easily 99% of you who say that Windows 10 is the last straw said that about Vista and said that about Windows 95. then you moved to Linux and then tried to listen to an mp3 or print a file or read a Word document or, I don't know, LOCK YOUR SCREEN, and it fucked up in some incredibly esoteric or stupid way.

      you think i'm going to show my fucking parents the difference between Xfce or GNOME or KDE and play "find the start bar" for them or "what fucking workspace am I in now?" you think I'm going to explain the difference between an rpm, tgz, or deb? if you hate microsoft so much, YOU fucking do all that shit for me, for free. your payment will be the ineffable, warm-and-fuzzy joy you get knowing that you're "really sticking it to" a multimillion dollar company by sacrificing hours a week playing BOFH: The Home Game.

      Dumb fucks.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: El Reg sat down with....? Wow!

        Funny, I up voted your post and it recorded it as a down vote.

      2. Barry Rueger Silver badge

        Re: El Reg sat down with....? Wow!

        Know what? You almost got an up vote for:

        "Easily 99% of you who say that Windows 10 is the last straw said that about Vista and said that about Windows 95."

        This is true, especially if they think they're clever for using "Windoze" or "M$."

        Your bizarre, uninformed, trolling anti-Linux rant turned that up vote upside-down. :(

      3. Chika
        Trollface

        Re: El Reg sat down with....? Wow!

        easily 99% of you who say that Windows 10 is the last straw said that about Vista and said that about Windows 95.

        Those that said it had their reasons. With W95 it was mostly about driver issues but bear in mind that the number of PCs affected was miniscule compared with current. With Vista it was because it was buggy and bloated and wasn't helped by that "Vista Ready" scheme that proved to be somewhat inaccurate. In both cases the systems in question eventually came up to scratch but were more notably superseded by systems that weren't quite such a pain in the arse, namely Windows 98 and Windows 7.

        then you moved to Linux and then tried to listen to an mp3 or print a file or read a Word document or, I don't know, LOCK YOUR SCREEN, and it fucked up in some incredibly esoteric or stupid way.

        It did? I've been using various Linuxen for many years with all sorts of different UIs and haven't noticed a problem. Yes, the mp3 business was a pain but bear in mind that this has more to do with protectionism than a system problem in itself and is easily worked around. I forget the last time I actually had an MP3 based problem overall.

        Opening a Word document? LibreOffice, OpenOffice and a few others have had no problems with doing this, whether you install them on Linux or, you know, Windows! I'll say nothing about loading Word on a Linux system using WINE, though I and many others can testify that it can be done.

        And as for locking my screen... you are really reaching for the FUD!

        you think i'm going to show my fucking parents the difference between Xfce or GNOME or KDE and play "find the start bar" for them or "what fucking workspace am I in now?"

        That's your choice. The difference between the UIs you mention isn't that great that you need to give a guided tour but at least many distros will give you a chance through the various Live environments.

        They all, however, have start "bars" that are easily found and will show the current workspace in a fairly intuitive fashion. Or are your parents really that incapable? In that case you'd better keep them away from Windows 10 as well!

        you think I'm going to explain the difference between an rpm, tgz, or deb?

        You really think they need to know? Aren't you just grousing for the sake of it? Have you ever explained the difference between an msi, exe or zip? Do they even care?

        if you hate microsoft so much, YOU fucking do all that shit for me, for free. your payment will be the ineffable, warm-and-fuzzy joy you get knowing that you're "really sticking it to" a multimillion dollar company by sacrificing hours a week playing BOFH: The Home Game.

        Why should anyone here do that? Or are you just a Microsoft fanboi or a shill with a rather lavatorial turn of phrase?

        1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

          Re: El Reg sat down with....? Wow!

          "Opening a Word document? LibreOffice, OpenOffice and a few others have had no problems with doing this"

          Oddly enough it tended to be Word that had that problem when the lock-in train was running full-tilt.

          1. Chika

            Re: El Reg sat down with....? Wow!

            Oddly enough it tended to be Word that had that problem when the lock-in train was running full-tilt.

            Indeed. The nice thing about LibreOffice and its predecessors is that they worked pretty hard to open whatever was flung at them, even when Microsoft protectionism was at its worst.

          2. Pompous Git Silver badge

            Re: El Reg sat down with....? Wow!

            Oddly enough it tended to be Word that had that problem when the lock-in train was running full-tilt.

            I have never had a problem opening a Word document with Word. I did have a problem once with a Word document created in Star Office.* When Star Office (and Word) failed to open the document I was told that I should have been periodically doing a File, Save as... That's something I never needed to do with Word though I never used the DOS versions or Word for Windows 1.0.

            I have seen this problem however. It was always when the Fast Saves setting had been enabled and so could be considered self-inflicted.

            * Star Office was the predecessor of Open/Libre Office and was a paid-for commercial product.

            1. Will Godfrey Silver badge
              Unhappy

              Re: El Reg sat down with....? Wow!

              I don't know about these days, but at one time the greatest unseen danger of Word, was that with every document it saved the whole of the current paste buffer.

              I have yet to understand why.

              1. Pompous Git Silver badge

                Re: El Reg sat down with....? Wow!

                I have yet to understand why.

                And that's the first I've heard of it. Came across a doozy with Mint 17.3 an hour or so ago. Printed a couple of PDFs. Attempting to print another and no go. Reset the printer, reconnected the printer, changed the printer cable, cancelled the print job, placed my special New Age healing crystal* on the printer... Rebooted into Win7 and printer's fine. Rebooted into Mint and still get Pending in Document Print Status and Printer not connected in Properties.

                After considerable Google-fu discovered it's a feature of Ubuntu to disable Printer Policies. I don't know why, but at least I'll know next time (assuming my incipient dementia doesn't prevent me remembering).

                * Often works with Windows... and I don't know why ;-)

                1. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

                  Re: El Reg sat down with....? Wow!

                  Printing isn't brilliant in Linux.

                  But it's not brilliant in Windows either. And now with Windows 10, when I finally got printing working (sort of), I always have to worry about MS screwing it up at any time "convenient" for me: The out of office hours on my non-office PC every day I must let them screw up my PC.

                  That's eveen worse than having to configure Linux ONCE.

                  1. Pompous Git Silver badge

                    Re: El Reg sat down with....? Wow!

                    Printing isn't brilliant in Linux.

                    But it's not brilliant in Windows either.

                    Ain't that the truth! The big difference I'm finding is that most of the time it's fairly trivial to find a solution to a Windows problem. Problems with Linux are far more intractable. My first post to a Linux forum remains unanswered after more than 12 months. A post a week ago to another forum remains in moderation. So often it's much more efficient to just boot into Windows to perform a task than wait after spending an hour or so Googling.

                    1. Dr Spork

                      Re: El Reg sat down with....? Wow!

                      Probably just a function of the size of your audience Git. What forum was it? Any chance of a link to your thread?

                      1. Pompous Git Silver badge

                        Re: El Reg sat down with....? Wow!

                        Probably just a function of the size of your audience Git.

                        What I figured given the relative installed bases.

                        Forum post

                        The post in moderation is at the Zimbra forums. I want to change the browser that's invoked when clicking hyperlinks in emails. The one I chose in setup was a symlink and doesn't work. The supposed method to do so isn't anywhere to be found. Or I've lost my marbles which isn't beyond the realms of possibility.

                        1. This post has been deleted by its author

                        2. Dr Spork

                          @Pompous Git. Re: Lexmark C543

                          Interesting problem! Can't help directly as I've never used either Mint or any Lexmark printer. The "healing crystal" healing weirdness suggests you might be flogging a knackered device... but a couple of thoughts spring to mind:

                          What "driver" are you using? Presumably the CUPS included in your Mint plus some PPD package? If so where are you getting the PPD(s)? Might be worth trying Lexmark's own pack and/or the Open Printing pack which is dated very recently. That Open Printing page describes your model as working perfectly which also makes me suspect a duff unit. Can't think why a PPD update would help particularly but can't think why a "healing crystal" would either! A less brutal electronic alternative to giving it a kick I suppose ;)

                          Alternatively, spinning up a Mint 18 (their first release based on Ubuntu 16.04 LTS?) live ISO could be a more rational course of action, as is includes a much more recent (v2.1.3) CUPS stack. Or maybe a daily ISO of the forthcoming Ubuntu 16.10 with its very up-to-date CUPS 2.2.0

                          If neither of those suggestions help, the CUPS mailing list might be the place to make cries for help - possibly a more likely bet than a distro's general user forum?

                          Good luck old Git.

                          1. Pompous Git Silver badge

                            Re: @Pompous Git. Lexmark C543

                            The Lexmark issue isn't a show-stopper. It just means I need to use the printer's web interface to check the status every so often. I know it's not a h'ware issue; several people with the same problem have contacted me direct as a result of my post.

                            Mint 18 didn't fix the problem but introduced another: dramatic decrease in graphics performance. So it goes... It was an immense pleasure to restore my Mint install with no issues. Why MS make restoring Windows such a pain is a mystery.

                            The magic healing crystal comment was tongue-in-cheek BTW. Sorry if that wasn't obvious. I have been known to use it when fixing computers and you wouldn't credit the number of people who believe me when I tell them that's what did the business. I'm an evil bastage sometimes :-)

              2. This post has been deleted by its author

      4. Updraft102 Silver badge

        Re: El Reg sat down with....? Wow!

        I said "never Vista," and you know what? I never used Vista.

        I said "never 8," and I never used 8.

        After trying 10, I'm saying "never 10" too.

        Those are the only times I've vowed not to use certain versions of Windows, and I've got a pretty good track record so far-- I've never used any version I've vowed not to.

        First time I used Linux Mint to play a MP3, you know what I did? I double-clicked the icon in Nemo. It played. Maybe there was some problem with that long ago that you're referring to-- I don't know, as it has only been recently (since oh, it would have to be around the end of July of 2015!) that I've had a good enough reason to try Linux.

        You suggest that MS doesn't care if we don't do as they say and hand our computers over to them by installing Windows 10, but their own desperation to get everyone on board shows otherwise. They won't make Windows 10 into a respectable, usable product if they're not forced to (the way they did with Vista turning into 7). Seems like the millions of people "sticking it to" the multimillion dollar company might not be as ineffective as you suggest.

        1. Pompous Git Silver badge

          Re: El Reg sat down with....? Wow!

          First time I used Linux Mint to play a MP3, you know what I did? I double-clicked the icon in Nemo.

          Your experience pretty much duplicated here except for MP3s. I never tried playing them because my ~$AU6,000 amplifier/speakers sound better when playing FLACs.

          Funny thing is that if it wasn't for w10, I'd still be running w7, not Cinnamon Mint.

        2. Kiwi Silver badge
          Linux

          Re: El Reg sat down with....? Wow!

          I said "never Vista," and you know what? I never used Vista.

          I said "never 8," and I never used 8.

          After trying 10, I'm saying "never 10" too.

          I was different. '95 came to me on a pile of floppies. #1 was corrupted. I took that as a sign, wait till (iirc) OSR2. Which I did, then gave it a try and used it till 98.

          ME I saw on a friends machine. It deserved it's abuse.

          I waited on 98 till XP SP1. XP pre-SP was deserving of some of the derision it got.

          I gave Fista 6 months, in hopes that it could improve. It wasn't till hardware was getting up there that it became bearable. After 6 months of Fista I began using Ubuntu and later Mint. Will probably build a VM for Devuan today or tomorrow to have a play with that, got itchy feet again.

          I have 7 for those odd games that I haven't got running as well on Mint. Most run better under WINE than Win though.

          8 looked and felt like crap. I gave it a try on a couple of test machines to be sure it was as bad as it seemed. It was worse. Classic Shell made it a bit better but still. Same for 8.1.

          By the time 10 came along I said "I've had enough". Set up a test machine for a co-worker to learn on and left the business.

          So far 10 has proved I made the right decision.

      5. bombastic bob Silver badge
        Devil

        Re: El Reg sat down with....? Wow!

        "easily 99% of you who say that Windows 10 is the last straw said that about Vista and said that about Windows 95. then you moved to Linux and then tried to listen to an mp3 or print a file or read a Word document"

        etc.

        I don't remember people saying _bad_ things about '95. In fact, it was 'huge popular'. it fixed a lot of problems with 16-bit applications limiting performance, etc. etc. If you must blame ANYTHING, blame Micro-shaft's crappy software architecture on the negatives [not the OS at that time, but the Office applications and things of THAT nature].

        then again, they TRIED to get it right for '9x.

        what I see NOW is a whole lot of "the opposite" of the way it was for '9x. '9x got a LOT of user-customization ADDED to it [now taken away].

        In ANY case, what "drove me to POSIX" (not necessarily Linux) was the ".Net initiative" and the OBVIOUS "wrong direction" that was taking, from Passport to C-pound to that redonkulous monolithic PIG collectively known as ".Net runtime".

        (applications load/run faster when you statically link, and with proper library organization [_not_ the latest MFC, they broke it] won't add more than 100k or so to the application's image, pathetically small on a 'modern' computer)

        anyway, Micro-shafts "all eggs, one basket" thinking has resulted in MORE security craters than open source, by a very large margin, obvious based on CERTS and the constant "security patch for" updates.

        And I like using FreeBSD. It's really "a developer's OS".

      6. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: El Reg sat down with....? Wow!

        You clearly haven't actually used linux much have you ? Linux mint works with mp3, you can install most software from the software manager, which is easier than windows, libre office works with most ms docs. It actually looks more like windows than windows 8 did.

        How are you going to explain to your parents that windows 10 is snooping on them, looks crap compared to windows 7, will regularly indulge in update hell, doesn't have media centre any more, doesn't start up in safe mode by pressing f8, won't run all their windows 7 games, will uninstall software it thinks incompatible, will take ages to update, will start spaming them with ads, will regularly bsod, and will confuse the hell out of them when they try to find settings in control panel that aren't there any more ?

        .... and then they'res anniversary update hell. I'd LOVE to see how your parents get on with that one when their machine refuses to boot....

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: El Reg sat down with....? Wow!

          I wouldn't worry about his parents. Didn't you see what he called them?

      7. Hstubbe

        Re: El Reg sat down with....? Wow!

        Funny, the challenges you describe are exactly what just works for me on linux but on winfows trying to play an mp3 gives me a windows media player complaining about an unsupported codec, reading word documents gives me 10000 security warning popups and when i want to edit i get another 10000. What does work most of the time is locking the screen, however unlocking takes 30 to 60 seconds so i normally don't even bother to lock. Now add to that that windows just refuses to come back from hibernation i will take linux (or even macos) over windows anytime.

      8. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: El Reg sat down with....? Wow!

        'play "find the start bar" for them'

        Big clue. By default either the desktop itself or the distro packagers put it just where Windows puts it.

        'or "what fucking workspace am I in now?"'

        Ah - multiple workspace envy.

      9. Not That Andrew

        Re: Can't use Linux apparently

        You must have been in a bare X session or TWM if you couldn't lock the screen, GNOME, KDE, XFCE, all the major desktops (and many of the window managers) have some obvious way of doing that.

        Playing MP3's hasn't been a problem on any distro for years, even Debian does it out the box these day's. All Distros come with a word processor (usually LibreOffice these days) capable of reading Office files (except particularly complex Excel files and some of the weirder Word files that Word often has issues with), and it's usually installed out the box.

        I can only assume that your experiences were on a rather bare bones installation of Debian about 2003 and you have assumed that all distros were like that and that Linux hasn't changed.

      10. oldcoder

        Re: El Reg sat down with....? Wow!

        That "loud minority" now has about 2 billion installations of Linux in peoples hands...

        That "loud minority" now has nearly all the supercomputers, and Windows has none.

        That "loud minority" now has the mobile market... and the stock markets.

        That "loud minority" now has quite a few government contracts, province contracts...

        That "loud minority" has taken to navy ships for reliability - where Windows left the ships dead in the water...

        That "loud minority" even has network control over Azure.

        Perhaps it is YOU that don't know...

      11. ecofeco Silver badge

        Re: El Reg sat down with....? Wow!

        Psst, it's the 21st century and you are seriously out of date.

      12. Patrician
        Mushroom

        Re: El Reg sat down with....? Wow!

        Up vote from me but Oh Boy, are you gonna get stomped on by the Linux Lovers here....

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Gimp

          Re: El Reg sat down with....? Wow!

          "Up vote from me but Oh Boy, are you gonna get stomped on by people unconvinced by the patter of that pontificating malware salesman and the quality of his malware."

          You're welcome :-)

      13. Dagg
        Flame

        Re: El Reg sat down with....? Wow!

        you think i'm going to show my fucking parents the difference between Xfce or GNOME or KDE and play "find the start bar" for them

        Yea, I'm sick to death of trying to explain to my friends and family where everything has disappeared to in windoze8 and windoze 10. The standard comment was why did they change it? I can't find anything anymore. etc.

        With the UI change especially to W8 it might have been easier to move my friends to linux as from their point of view both UIs are nothing like they used before.

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    How does microsoft say screw you?

    Trust us!

    1. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Devil

      Re: How does microsoft say screw you?

      Reminds me of a joke, "How do you say F.U. in New York City"

      So it's "How do you say F.U. in Redmond WA" now

      "Trust Us"

      /me keeps hearing the old Jungle Book from the 60's in my head, with Kaa singing "Trust in meeeeee..."

  11. This post has been deleted by a moderator

    1. channel extended

      No. I simply got tired of the bullshit coming out of Redmond that I went to Linux, eventually staying with Kali.

    2. Roo
      Gimp

      ". and then your computer gets owned by a 'botnet. and then you're yet another dumb motherfucker who is part of the problem."

      Strangely that's exactly what happens with zero day exploits, except in your utopia *everyone* is a dumb mf who is part of the problem.

      1. Donkey Molestor X

        > Strangely that's exactly what happens with zero day exploits, except in your utopia *everyone* is a dumb mf who is part of the problem.

        yes, both people who allow automatic updates and people who manually scrutinize and approve updates are vulnerable to zero day exploits. however, the person who manually scrutinizes and approves updates for his home computer is additionally vulnerable every minute he has his computer on and is not installing a patch or, probably, forgetting about it completely because he'll get distracted by something else.

        your logic is like saying a knife-proof vest or a bullet-proof vest for a policeman is "useless" because it doesn't protect him from a V-2 rocket falling on him from out of the sky.

        ironically dear old auntie or granny with her computer set to accept patches automatically is LESS of a disease vector on the internet than Mr. Badass-sysadmin-@-home who says "Oh I'll test that patch as soon as I back up my drives and make a new slipstreamed install image and unmount my NAS and oh this is boring I'm going to play video games now".

        1. rmoore

          "ironically dear old auntie or granny with her computer set to accept patches automatically is LESS of a disease vector..."

          Obviously. I mean, if they/you get a borked update they/you might not even be on the net for a while. However, those around them might learn some new words. That is, if they didn't learn them already because of earlier updates.

        2. Barry Rueger Silver badge

          Up vote 'cause it's true

          Can't understand the downvotes for the parent comment.

          It's bleeding obvious that for World+Dog the best security practice is to let the OS download and install patches without needing permission.

          I'm certain that the people down voting are equally vocal in complaining about users that leave unpatched security holes on their machines.

          You can't have it both ways.

          (None of this disputes that MS upgrades and patches generally break stuff.

          Sadly, these days, the average user just has to live with breakage in order to be secure )

          1. Pompous Git Silver badge

            Re: Up vote 'cause it's true

            It's bleeding obvious that for World+Dog the best security practice is to let the OS download and install patches without needing permission.

            And a bricked machine is obviously 100.00% secure...

            1. Rich 11 Silver badge

              Re: Up vote 'cause it's true

              And a bricked machine is obviously 100.00% secure...

              No, a bricked machine is only 99.99% secure.

              For it to be 100% secure (no additional zeroes required, if you understand arithmetic), you need to unplug it, take the battery out and bury the machine in concrete where no-one will ever think to look for it.

              That latter qualification might actually be quite hard to achieve.

              1. Pompous Git Silver badge

                Re: Up vote 'cause it's true

                No, a bricked machine is only 99.99% secure...

                For it to be 100% secure (no additional zeroes required, if you understand arithmetic),

                One might be tempted to think that having already slurped the data, MS is no longer interested in accessing your machine. On the latter point, you are of course correct. I have made myself a large conical hat with the letter "D" inscribed in blue crayon. I shall now go and stand in the corner for half an hour and sulk.

            2. Not That Andrew

              Re: 100% secure

              Unless the update irrevocably corrupted the HDD's I don't think so

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Stop

                Re: 100% secure

                I don't know what you're all complaining about, you big whining nancies. I've found it's pretty damned secure if you just plug in a Kindle ---->

          2. Wade Burchette

            Re: Up vote 'cause it's true

            "(None of this disputes that MS upgrades and patches generally break stuff.

            Sadly, these days, the average user just has to live with breakage in order to be secure )"

            Why? Why should I tolerate a broken program to be secure?

          3. beavershoes

            Re: Up vote 'cause it's true

            Microsoft patches have recently broke machines. One has to vett Microsoft patches. Remember they are tested by Microsoft early access program. Not from professional QA departments. Microsoft fired them. We have to use our QA departments to vett these updates before we can install them on our employees machines. Down time is not an option.

            1. Chika
              Mushroom

              Re: Up vote 'cause it's true

              One has to vett Microsoft patches.

              Exactly why WSUS exists. Exactly the reason why Update always had the option to omit patches and stop the system installing automatically until now.

              Throw as many shills into the mix as you like, Microsoft, but every bricked or broken system out there is a tacit condemnation of your current "group policy"; systems that under previous policies might have stood some sort of chance at avoiding being pumped with bad code that turned them into bricks or broken systems.

          4. hplasm Silver badge
            Gimp

            Re: Up vote 'cause it's true

            "...It's bleeding obvious that for World+Dog the best security practice is NOT to let the OS download..."

            (FTFY)

            In the first place- where Windows is concerned.

        3. Updraft102 Silver badge

          Oh yes, every minute counts when it comes to installing those updates! So much so that MS will make you wait up to a month after an issue is fixed, since they only offer them once a month and not immediately (as with Linux)... and then they're going to all be bundled together, so when MS screws them up, as they often do, you get to uninstall ALL of that month's patches to make your machine work again!

          Yay!

        4. bombastic bob Silver badge
          Devil

          "Ironically dear old auntie or granny with her computer set to accept patches automatically is LESS of a disease vector on the internet than Mr. Badass-sysadmin-@-home"

          how about Mr. Linux admin that knows how to properly set up a POSIX compliant computer?

          [I bet there are a few of THESE people reading these comments]

          The problem with these straw-people you concoct is that they're all STILL using Winders...

        5. Roo
          Windows

          "yes, both people who allow automatic updates and people who manually scrutinize and approve updates are vulnerable to zero day exploits."

          Right, so the update-sceptics are no worse off then.

          "your logic is like saying a knife-proof vest or a bullet-proof vest for a policeman is "useless" because it doesn't protect him from a V-2 rocket falling on him from out of the sky."

          You may be terrified of zero day exploits but I can assure you that they are nothing "like" ballistic missiles, they are simply vulnerabilities that the vendors have not patched yet. If you are very afraid you could simply disconnect all your machines from the internet and make sure you scan all your imported files for nasties in a test environment first.

          "ironically dear old auntie or granny with her computer set to accept patches automatically is LESS of a disease vector"

          I doubt there/s much difference in practice, just look at how old some of the "zero days" are, case in point font rendering vulns that allow an attack to run code in ring 0 existed in NT and it's derivatives for over 20 years - despite thousands of updates (and drive by attacks). There have also been updates that introduce new vulnerabilities, the OpenSSL Heartbleed vulnerability is an example of new functionality bringing new vulns. I'm using heartbleed as an example because it's not all MS's fault, and in that particular instance I dodged the heartbleed vuln simply because I felt the risk posed by the update was not worth the reward (functionality that I didn't want).

          If you care about vulnerabilities there really is no alternative to research and paying attention to what the updates are doing - because history shows that trusting a single vendor to fix every single hole in a two decade old piece of bloat-ware just isn't enough (and vendors make mistakes)...

          1. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

            Upvote on that Roo.

            The naivity of the "let MS be our nanny" crowd is astonishing.

    3. Updraft102 Silver badge

      I've scrutinized every patch offered by Microsoft since there was such a thing as Windows Update. Never gotten tired of it. You might get tired of sifting your cat's litter box or taking out the trash too, but you do it, because it has to be done.

      Most malware gets on a system by means of social engineering, not lack of software patches. People intentionally install it. I don't mean to get in the way of your ill-informed, spittle-flying rants (they're very entertaining!), but I just thought I'd point that out. Oh, and if your PC does become part of a botnet, you can bet they will cut off your access when they discover it.

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Windows

    "A feature of Microsoft's Enterprise Mobility Suite"

    Anyone else read that as "A feature of Microsoft's Enterprise Monopoly Suite" and then think "hang on, that's abnormally honest"?

    I think I'm getting to old for this $#!&

    :(

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Windows

      Re: "A feature of Microsoft's Enterprise Mobility Suite"

      *too

      I do know the difference between "to" and "too" - honest!

      Must have struck the "o" to rapidly ;O)

  13. LDS Silver badge

    This guy is unable to understand...

    ... how much trust has been burned by their malware-like attempts to install the telemetry-ridden Windows 10 (and the telemetry patched for previous versions). And he asks to trust patches blindly? It's true "shame" is an unknown word for some business people.

  14. YARR
    Windows

    I think what MS are saying in a roundabout way, but not openly admitting, is that they have a big database of Windows 10 users linked to their hardware and software setups and usage patterns ranked by licence type. When they release updates some users are classed as guinea pigs to test them on, while the more important corporate users only receive the updates after the hoi polloi with similar systems have beta-tested them. My evidence for this is the fact that some Win 10 PCs still haven't received the Anniversary Update.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      it is more like....

      For the last two freaking Windows 10 updates (511 and 1607) you have to do a lot of manual sh!t to get WSUS to even download the stupid updates. THAT is the more likely cause of what you have seen.

      Satya seems determined to kill MS for some odd reason!

  15. Badger Murphy
    Facepalm

    SaaS - I do not think it means what you think it means

    Good to see MS is offering stupidity as a service now. I used to have to pay full price for it up front!

  16. Kev99 Bronze badge

    Where I used to work ALL updates were first test on freestanding units, either a desktop or a server. After that testing, which could take a couple weeks, the update was pushed out. Far too many times the users got messages from our IT dept. that basically said if you install this or that update you're dead meat. With all the problems I'm reading that W10 has, I doubt seriously any IT dept. that knows its arse from a hole in the ground is going to trust Redmond. We didn't even the microsoft time server but rather the national clock to sync our machines.

    1. ecofeco Silver badge

      I have never seen an IT department trust Microsoft, only young techs with freshly minted certs and a misguided idea that cheerleading for MS will impress the boss.

      Even bosses who are gung ho for MS never deploy updates or new releases without first testing.

      Trust was lost decades ago. Both Apple and Microsoft cannot hold a candle to Linux these day for ease of installation and reliability.

      My, my how the tables have turned.

  17. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Mr. Anderson died in the end.

    "Credential Guard stores your credentials in a way that it is impossible for an attacker to get credentials."

    To ever use the word impossible is a sign of arrogance. Considering which company is using the word, my brain hurts....

    1. Pompous Git Silver badge

      Re: Mr. Anderson died in the end.

      To ever use the word impossible is a sign of arrogance. Considering which company is using the word, my brain hurts....

      And my ribs hurt... from laughter :-)

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Mr. Anderson died in the end.

      Mr Anderson worked at Yahoo! in a previous life, by the looks of it.

      (We can only hypothesise what Mr Anderson would be saying right now if Microsoft had bought Yahoo!, back in the day)

  18. Ken Hagan Gold badge

    Trust in a world of externalised costs?

    OK, so let's say I trust MS. When it goes titsup and *my* business grinds to a halt, what's the incentive for *their* business to pull out all the stops and work triple overtime until I am in business again? Because unless my pain is their loss, they have a legal duty (to their shareholders) to ignore me.

    *That*, Mr Vice President of Bullshit and Pontification, is why only a complete idiot would *trust* Microsoft.

  19. Michael Sanders

    Typical corporate disconnect

    Normally I'd follow after all the conspiracy theories. But this is just as shining example of how completely removed suits can be from how things really are. But this time they cut the lead time between board room fantasy and a bricked machine, so close, it could crater the company with one black scandal.

  20. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Trust Microsoft?

    BWA HAHAHAhahahahahahahahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahhahahahahaha*GASP*

    BWA Hahahahahhhahhahahhahhahhhahhahahahahhhahahhahhahhahaha*Wheeze*

    BWA HAHahahahhahahhahahhahahahhahahahhahhahhahahhahhahahaha*Cough*

    FUCK NO!

    BWA Hahahahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahhaa...

    1. Chika
      Trollface

      Re: Trust Microsoft?

      BWA

      HAHAHA....

      That sounded a bit bad. Hangonamo, I'll see if I can find a spare inhaler...

      1. Kiwi Silver badge
        Windows

        Re: Trust Microsoft?

        I'll see if I can find a spare inhaler.

        From the sounds of the article, he's not the only one inhaling something...

  21. N2 Silver badge
    Trollface

    Trust Microsoft?

    Yes, I trust them to fuck it all up at some point of their choosing.

    That is all.

    1. Kiwi Silver badge
      Linux

      Re: Trust Microsoft?

      Yes, I trust them to fuck it all up at some point of their choosing.

      You'd be wrong then.

      MS never choose to fuck something up.

      It's from the magnitude of their sheer programming (and social) incompetence that they make such a mess!

  22. Herby Silver badge

    Yes, there are alternatives...

    And they work.

    Back in 2009 at a resort that no longer exists (Tsunami did it in), I came across a couple of computers that were provided for guests to do things like boarding passes and general web use.

    One of the machines was XP (latest for the day), and the other was using a version of Linux (I believe it was Ubuntu, but I'm not sure). They both had nice big browser launch buttons on the desktop, and provided a print feature. Most of the guests didn't notice the difference, as they both worked in a similar fashion. I talked to someone behind the counter and they said nobody really notices either. I may have asked for "why?", but didn't get around to remembering the answer. It may have been that the Linux version didn't need as much "attention" as the other one.

    No matter, I just find that situations like this are "interesting", and compare to recent arrogance of Microsoft and its dealings with everyone at large. Live and learn...

    1. Pompous Git Silver badge

      Re: Yes, there are alternatives...

      Most of the guests didn't notice the difference, as they both worked in a similar fashion. I talked to someone behind the counter and they said nobody really notices either.

      Over the last 12 months have advised several friends to move to Linux Mint. Apart from "thank you", no unsolicited comments. Asking what difference Mint made, was told that computer no longer makes them wait for an eternity updating when they turn it on. And that's it. The Chrome browser is the Chrome browser, or Firefox if you prefer.

    2. David 132 Silver badge

      Re: Yes, there are alternatives...

      @Herby Back in 2009 at a resort that no longer exists (Tsunami did it in),

      Slightly off-topic, but this wasn't on Hawaii by any chance? (the 2011 tsunami did quite a bit of damage to the Kailua-Kona region)

      I only ask because the resort there where I married in 2009 was destroyed by the Tsunami. I've tried not to take it as a metaphor for my marriage.

      Just wondered if perchance we're talking about the same place.

  23. Planty Bronze badge

    Trust?

    Like when I trusted that when I removed that candy crush saga shit you bundled with windows 10, I trusted you wouldn't reinstall it silently 10 minutes later

  24. beavershoes

    Changed the meaning of X

    Microsoft is the company that changed the meaning of the red X in upper right corner from meaning "ignore" to meaning "accept". Are you serious, we are suppose to trust Microsoft. I trust Microsoft about as far as I can throw Trump.

    1. Rich 11 Silver badge

      Re: Changed the meaning of X

      And I trust Trump about as far as I can throw Microsoft.

  25. Walter Bishop Silver badge
    Facepalm

    What a load of pseudo technical sounding waffle

    "Interview with Brad Anderson, Corporate Vice President of Enterprise Client and Mobility."

    And what exactly does he do again?

    "Now I have got my cloud services outside of the perimeter and that network-based perimeter is no longer effective"

    What has any of this got to do with the business of making money for the business?

  26. Howard Hanek Bronze badge
    Headmaster

    The Future of Mankind

    The next Extinction Event will be precipitated by a MS 'Patch'.......

    1. a_yank_lurker Silver badge

      Re: The Future of Mankind

      lol - Or one will be the final sign of the Second Coming.

  27. Steve Knox

    Wait...

    "Now I have got my cloud services outside of the perimeter and that network-based perimeter is no longer effective,"

    So a Microsoftie is admitting that putting your stuff in the cloud is bad for security?

    1. Chika

      Re: Wait...

      So a Microsoftie is admitting that putting your stuff in the cloud is bad for security?

      That's not really news. The amount of stolen data from various clouds over the last few years shows that much.

  28. Dwarf Silver badge

    No

    No, we will not trust you with patches. You lost trust with the Windows 10 and other forced updates debacle. Repeat again until you get it. Its not your computer, its mine.

    If you want me to change my computer, then be truthful about what the patches do and I might decide to install it. If not... then the answer is no.

    The other issue you have is that I now have a $ prompt, not a C:\ prompt.

    This was because you tried it on before and we changed to something else that doesn't do this to us.

  29. inmypjs Silver badge

    "whole list of factors"

    Been there with Tesco banking.

    When protecting your privacy you block or remove all these 'factors' they are using to identify and track you, you end up having to wait for an SMS every effing time you log on.

    1. ecofeco Silver badge

      Re: "whole list of factors"

      I'm seeing this everywhere these days. It makes it easier to decide what gets bookmarked and what gets "temporarily allowed" and then wiped when the session is over.

      Which reminds me, it's cookie cleaning time.

  30. Kiwi Silver badge
    Linux

    which it calls identity-based security.

    That needs fixing. It should read which it calls identity-theft skulduggery !

    “There is years of experience that IT pros have, sometimes we release updates that break something. As we build confidence with IT pros around the world that our updates are solid they will get more comfortable with just letting the patches go through,”

    His reality-distortion-field clearly wasn't built by MS because it seems to be functioning correctly.

    In reality, sysadmins are seeing the constant fuckups, messed up settings, hardware no longer working, masses of lost productivity and so on and thinking "why the fuck would I allow this shitfest on my machines?". And looking to keep the Win7 etc they have, or go elsewhere.

    Those who know how to secure their systems already are running Linux, or are working on ways to convince their managers to migrate to it. Those who don't yet will either get desperate enough to make the move, or will end up going broke as none of their staff can manage to do anything productive any more.

    (MS, I need money - pay my a couple of hundred G a month and I'll suddenly find out just how great Win 10 really is and sing it's praises and so on. Actually, make that a couple of mill a month...)

  31. Ramon Zarat

    TRUST US

    "Just trust us". Thanks but no thanks. Also, fuck you M$.

  32. Shinseiko

    ...Two-in-ones, Surface Pro, Surface Book, users want to have these modern touch devices.”®"

    No. No, we fucking don't. Say again, we nither want nor need your stupid, shiny, FLUGLY UI(tm) fondleslab mobi platform bullshit. Just let me have a fucking tower, monitors, mouse and keyboard and I'm happy. That's all I as a CG artist, need. maybe speakers for listening to metal while stuff renders. (UP THE IRONS!!!)

    Basically, this guy is so far out of touch with reality, I start to wonder if being named Anderson makes him think he's actually Neo? If so, I think he may have misunderstood the whole point of the matrix...

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Pint

      Quite. Or a nice civilised laptop with a proper(-ish) keyboard, large trackpad and beautiful large, matt, spotlessly clean DISPLAY*.

      Sadly the pontificating salesman seems totally obsessed with what the kids are fiddling with on their sofas. Should be banged-up if you ask me.

      *for DISPLAYING. i.e. VISUAL OUTPUT: Not smearing greasy mitts all over. That's INPUT (mouse, trackpad, g-spot/nipple thing, or whatever)

    2. ecofeco Silver badge

      If so, I think he may have misunderstood the whole point of the matrix...

      Uhm, he IS the Matrix.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Terminator

        You sure? I had him down as Cyberdyne Systems.

  33. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    That's exactly the problem

    Microsoft have proven throughout its history that it cannot be trusted, whether it be software quality or business ethics.

    1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: That's exactly the problem

      "Microsoft have proven throughout its history that it cannot be trusted, whether it be software quality or business ethics."

      Not entirely true. Way back in time I quite liked their FORTRAN for CP/M

      1. This post has been deleted by its author

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Pirate

        Re: That's exactly the problem

        Good grief! That's going back a bit!

        Nothing from the MSDOS era or beyond?

        Strange that DOS now stands for different words... perhaps Digital Research, Lotus Software, MicroPro International, et al, knew its true meaning all along?

      3. P. Lee Silver badge
        Coat

        Re: That's exactly the problem

        No love for QBASIC?

        1. Roo
          Windows

          Re: That's exactly the problem

          "QBASIC"

          It wasn't quick, so there was no love for QBASIC. :)

  34. jason 7

    I'll trust MS fully....

    ....when they finally realise that "100% Complete" means its finished there and then.

    Not two hours later.

    1. Chika

      Re: I'll trust MS fully....

      My word, you are so trusting!

      1. jason 7

        Re: I'll trust MS fully....

        Well if they finally work that one out...

  35. conscience

    The way to build trust is to give users a choice, to slowly build up a long record of rock solid, reliable updates that make things better, keep things as secure as possible, or add great new features that people actually want... updates so damn good that they have the experts nodding in agreement and respect at the very high quality software on offer. Breaking people's computers and/or making them worse whilst telling people they have no choice but to trust your questionable decisions will only lose MS every last shred of respect it ever had.

    It's all sort of moot now as I've switched all my own computers and that of my family to Linux (Mint/Mate), but who exactly does MS think is going to trust them anyway after so many, many untrustworthy updates that were so flawed and buggy that they regularly borked computers, broke things like hardware and software, and left people in the lurch either unable to do business or looking at computer repair shop bills yet again? You don't have to be a pro IT guy to be frustrated by Microsoft!

    Interestingly when I switched my old mother to Linux Mint, it was after a period of resistance because she didn't want anything to change at all at her age with her failing memory. But there have been just sooo many problems this last 12 months that she actually asked me to "get rid of Windows" and took the plunge at the ripe young age of 64. Not a single support call since, and this from a woman who used to telephone me every time there was a problem or a pop up window appeared so she could read it to me so this is a significant improvement. The only instruction she received on using Linux Mint instead of Windows 7 was me clicking the start/menu button and hovering the mouse over a couple of application categories to show her where the browser and office suites are as all the software she needs was already there.

  36. David Roberts Silver badge
    Coat

    Enough of the ranting over details

    Just step back a minute and think.

    The message is that everything - applications, network, OS - is cloud and is managed from the cloud.

    So stop your pointless techy whining.

    You are no longer required.

    Pick your coats up off the rack on your way out.

    1. Roo
      Windows

      Re: Enough of the ranting over details

      "The message is that everything - applications, network, OS - is cloud and is managed from the cloud."

      Sure it is, and virtual Umpalumpas do all the scripting & monitoring too because employing human people to admin a mass-surveillance system is just too risky. :)

  37. Stoneshop Silver badge
    Unhappy

    At Microsoft's recent Ignite event in Atlanta

    Well, clearly it didn't; there was no news of an epic bonfire in Georgia's capital.

    1. a_yank_lurker Silver badge

      Re: At Microsoft's recent Ignite event in Atlanta

      Ignite is not a good name for a conference in Atlanta especially since some of Sherman's were a wee bit careless with matches. For the recorded some of Hood's boys were almost as bad (the burning shown in 'Gone With The Wind' is Hood's not Sherman's)

  38. Boris the Cockroach Silver badge
    FAIL

    The one

    thing to remember with updates is that if a machine goes down, then thats money being pissed away.(especially in the industrial control sector)

    We have 8 PC powered machining centers, we charge between £45-£60/hr for them, imagine M$ release a patch that gets on to them and stops them from working for 3 days until a service tech can come in and re-image the HDDs

    £50*8 machines *72 hrs ... thats nearly 29 THOUSAND pounds m$ have just cost us in lost production.

    Which explains why the control manufacturer says "No loss caused by the installation of unapproved patches will by covered by us" on the windows OS controls.

    And it also explains why the control manufacturer uses Linux for the OS now

  39. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I'd be more inclined to trust them if they hadn't screwed up so much already. Anniversary update failed on both machines with spurious errors and took a day of trouble shooting to fix. Windows 7 updates are unbelievably slow. Several times if windows 10 is updating its frozen. Then I have to reboot and it starts downloading all over again only to get stuck in the same place. IF we had separate updates that wouldn't happen.

    Its another area where linux mint/ubuntu is streets ahead of microsoft. You can't piss off all of the people all of the time and not loose market share.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Headmaster

      Lose?

      Presumably.. although loose (v. "liberate") could fit at a somewhat sympathetic stretch...

  40. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Cloud!!!!

    ""Now I have got my cloud services outside of the perimeter and that network-based perimeter is no longer effective," says Anderson."

    I haven't and won't have. Ever...

  41. Lion
    Alert

    Nomenclature is everything

    Renaming the recently announced patch bundles for Windows 7 and Windows 8 will no doubt improve the trust quotient. The updates are now officially 'quality' updates. Re: Security-only quality update and Security monthly quality rollup.

    1. This post has been deleted by its author

  42. streaky Silver badge
    Black Helicopters

    "Just trust us"

    Uhhhmmmm.. No?

  43. G G Madden

    In July, on one computer, I spent three days wading through stuff I did not want before reverting to Windows 7. Nevertheless, KB2952664 has continued to appear on my computers.

    Today, on another computer running Windows 7, I found that KB2952664 4.7 MB had been ticked as an important "update", and KB2952664 4.7 MB - 4.8 MB was an optional "update".

    Has KB2952664 really become important and benign and in two different forms?

  44. Big_Boomer

    Compensation!!

    I will set the machines I have control over to Update automatically when MS agree to financially compensate me for every time they f**k up one of my machines with one of their updates. Far too often they decide to update a device driver and consequently I get the pleasure of figuring out the cause, installing the correct driver, and disabling that update. XP was awful, Win7 was better, but even my Win10 machines have had to have this done twice now. It's not just drivers either, updates often cause problems with programs. Look at the .NET debacle. MS have decided that .NET 4.5 and 4.6 are later versions of 4.0 so they update to these Automatically. However, there are major functionality changes in 4.5 and 4.6 which means that they break the programs that were written for 4.0. I've no idea why they weren't called 5.0 and 6.0 but the auto-updates of .NET on our customers machines wastes about 5 hours per week of my time.

  45. lansalot

    Morning, Microsoft !

    Funny you should ask about the whole "trust us" thing.

    I've come in to work this morning to find 175 servers out of ~600 that are refusing to install Endpoint Protection AV updates. No known cause as of yet.

    I'll keep working on it, but thanks for reminding me we can totally trust you not to screw things up.

  46. Down not across Silver badge

    I suppose force/shove down your throat is kind of promoting

    The overall picture is confused though, because the figures Microsoft releases cover both consumer and business, and the consumer upgrade was both free and heavily promoted forced by the company. At Ignite, Microsoft refused to give the press numbers for Windows 10 Enterprise take-up alone.

    TFTFY

    I'm not surprised they don't want to give numbers on W10 Enterprise take-up. Must be miniscule. You'd have to be utterly bonkers to upgrade anything in enterprise to W10 when W7 actually works and lets work to be done.

    Given the increasing tendency for "cloud based" (often in form of some Java in browser abomination) there really is decreasing need for Windows these days. Microsoft could be in for a shock if enterprises start to realise that they could in many (not all of course) situations replace users windows installations with other alternatives.

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