back to article Analyst: iPhone 7 points to price jump

Apple may have dampened down expectations when it released the last set of quarterly financial figures, and predicted revenues down again year-on-year for the current quarter, but at least one analyst disagrees. Ton Sacconaghi, Wall Street analyst at Bernstein, predicts Apple shares moving up to $125 based on his calculations …

  1. NoneSuch
    Big Brother

    It could also mean a substantial decrease. The last round of iPhones didn't sell so well. There's no more innovation coming out of Apple, just the same old closed garden regurgitated product and marketing hype that ultimately disappoints.

    1. DougS Silver badge

      Apple haters keep hoping for evidence that Apple is on the way to bankruptcy, but other than the 6S failing to reach the huge peak attained by the 6, they aren't going to get much satisfaction. The massive sales peak of the 6 (so big Apple outsold Samsung and its full range of high end to low end phones one quarter) were never going to be matched, because there was pent up demand for a bigger iPhone that was finally satisfied, plus huge pent up demand in China for China Mobile and its 700 million customers to finally be supported.

      Please tell me what important innovations are coming out of the Android world, other than phones that can cook your dinner?

      1. wolfetone Silver badge

        The iPhone 6 has been out for 2 years, and you point out the one quarter where they outsold Samsung as a good thing? 1 quarter out of 8?

        Apple haters are gonna hate, but at least they're realistic about it. Where as Apple fanbois "OOOOOOOOO NEW SHINEY!!!"

        1. DougS Silver badge

          @wolfetone

          If you had proper reading comprehension, you'd understand I was pointing out that that quarter was an example of how the iPhone 6's sales figures were such a huge jump of the 5S's due to all that pent up demand for a larger iPhone and for China Mobile support.

          That's why Apple saw sales fall with the 6S - they "regressed to the mean" as it were because there was never any chance that it could match the 6's sales figures, because there are no longer any large sources of untapped demand. The addition of any other "innovations" from the Android world like wireless charging, a stylus, a removable battery, an SD card slot, etc. would not move the needle in a measurable way.

          1. wolfetone Silver badge

            @DougS

            OOOOOOOOOOOOOOH NEW SHINEY THING!!!!!!!!

            Get lost.

            - Wireless charging first appeared on the Nokia Lumia platform.

            - Customiseable keyboard? Android did that first.

            - QuickType? BlackBerry did that first.

            - Backing up photos to the cloud automatically with iCloud? Have you heard of Google+/Google Drive?

            - Picture in a picture? Ah, wrong again that was a Samsung innovation

            The fact is, as I said, anyone who dislikes Apple knows the truth: They don't innovate. But the fanbois, such as yourself, don't believe in a world outside of Apple. So anything that happens inside Apple is a new, brave, wonderful thing!

            Remember when the iPhones came out and for a good, long, while you couldn't cut/copy/paste text? But you could on even the most basic Nokia's? Yeah mate, great innovation that.

            1. DougS Silver badge

              Re: @DougS

              I asked for important innovations and you give me wireless charging and customizable keyboards? Those are hardly advancements causing people to replace their old phone to get!

              Wireless charging as it exists is pointless - you have to lay your phone on a pad. If you have to place it in a certain spot, what's the difference between that and having a cable stationed at that spot - which you ALREADY have to connect the pad to a power source! The extra second or two required to attach it if your battery is running low too difficult? It is just a gimmick.

              If you could have a little antenna that beamed power a meter or two, then it wouldn't be just a phone gimmick, but you could put it on your desk and power your monitor, keyboard, mouse, speakers, wireless router, laptop AND phone. And watch, and glasses, and headphones and anything else you might use or wear while working. Now THAT would be useful, but that's either very difficult or impossible to do efficiently or someone would be doing it already.

              1. wolfetone Silver badge

                Re: @DougS

                But where are the iPhone innovations?

                Removal of a headphone jack isn't an innovation.

                1. DougS Silver badge

                  Re: @DougS

                  I'm not arguing Apple is innovating either. I don't consider ANYTHING since the original iPhone to be true innovation. Now you can argue about all the parts that made up that first iPhone existed in one form or another in earlier phones, but putting them all together to get the resulting product certainly was - it was enough for the head of the Android project to admit they scrapped what they were working on and started over after they saw the announcement.

                  What has happened with smartphones since that first iPhone? They are a lot faster, they are bigger, displays are higher resolution, they use newer cellular/wireless standards, take better pictures, and so forth. Those are all incremental improvements over what came before.

                  I think the word "innovation" is overused, people try to claim NFC or wireless charging or even a bigger screen is "innovation". I think that's a word that should be reserved for a paradigm shift in the way you use something. Automatic transmission was an innovation for automobiles. Electric windows and door locks were not.

              2. cambsukguy

                Re: @DougS

                > Wireless charging as it exists is pointless - you have to lay your phone on a pad

                You just shot yourself in the foot, losing any argument you may have had with just this one stupid observation.

                Laying it on a pad (received free with my Lumia 920 several years ago and still working) is very, very easy and reliable, the pad is large.

                I have two Nokia pads now and an extra after-market cheapo pad. These are definitely less good, requiring some care, but mine beeps to indicate that it saw the phone and the phone makes a noise to indicate that it is charging so it is still entirely functional. It has the advantage of working with any USB and being smaller though, allowing easier travel use.

                The flexibility wireless charging provides of maintaining charge while allowing one to just pick up the phone and go, to a meeting or the toilet, is what stops people with cable charging actually charging while at a desk at work for instance.

                For those that must charge (due to having old iPhones that don't hold charge), the annoyance of hearing incessant ringing and beeping from said phones because the owner left the desk and the phone, because they didn't want to unplug and re-plug just to go to a meeting or the toilet, is one of the many reasons I rarely work in offices.

                You will not find many people that have had wireless charging and are willing to buy a new phone without it.

                Just because Apple deem anything but charging at a distance as useless doesn't mean that the concept is not usable and convenient.

                My latest Lumia's wireless charging coil inside the removable back case is certainly less than a mm in depth and there is another coil present to support the non-Qi standard as well. The actual coils use a recess so the phone is still slim and the battery is still 3000mAh which is decent enough.

      2. Martin-73 Silver badge

        Android phone innovation:

        A headphone jack! (Seriously, apple fanbois, you can't defend THAT screwup LOL)

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        >Please tell me what important innovations are coming out of the Android world

        The biggest one is CHOICE. The ability to choose what you do with it, what kind of interface you prefer, who your manufacturer is etc. I could go on but these kinds of arguments have been hashed out too often over the years. Suffice to say that the modern fanbois is the the equivalent of the old school 'No one ever got fired for buying IBM' conservative. Stay safe in your garden my friend.

      4. MrDamage

        > "Please tell me what important innovations are coming out of the Android world"

        You mean apart from the fact you can do what you want to hardware that you own, without some turtle-necked twat telling you you're a naughty boy and will be evicted from the walled garden?

        Or the fact you are capable of adding even more storage to your device.

        Or the ability to root it without voiding your warranty.

        Or the ability to be able to access the data on your device from a PC without having to install bloated and buggy software to act as an interface.

        Yes, yes, I know a common sense approach may not seem like innovation, but given the amount of smoke Apple is trying to blow up everyone's arse, common sense is definitely innovative in the mobile phone world.

      5. Tim Almond

        Innovation?

        "Please tell me what important innovations are coming out of the Android world, other than phones that can cook your dinner?"

        Not much either. But Apple are selling a high-end product. If you're just going to make something a bit faster and with a nicer case than a Moto G4 (which is a very capable phone), you're going to find people saving their money and getting a Moto G4.

    2. Charlie Clark Silver badge

      It could also mean a substantial decrease.

      This is unlikely: this is what the SE is for. As any fule nose, and as the money markets keep on telling us to justify higher inflation, price cuts often tend to set expectations for further price cuts.

      What I think is more likely is: bumping the spec but maintaining the price (adjusted for currency fluctuations) and further segmentation with fewer people opting for the extra storage. Apple has to do something to respond to the ever cheaper SD cards that everyone else can use and things like Samsung's upcoming format which will be huge and very fast. Upping the high end also makes Apple look like a leader (though they're only playing catch up with things like water resistance).

      Apple's market share is no longer growing and the absolute numbers have started to dip. The 7 is really a litmus test for whether the delayed replacement cycle, that has hit the whole mobile market, will also affect Apple. We won't really know until Apple releases some numbers.

      Personally, although Bernstein has a good reputation, I'd expect any rise in the ASP to be more than offset by lower volumes. Won't really matter much for Apple as the profits will still be huge and the share price, based on price to earnings may still look cheap.

      @DougS as for innovation, well we're not seeing it from Apple: waterproofing (Sony and Samsung have had it for years); Android now has multiscreen support builtin; two lenses for pics (Huawei). Apple makes great kit and provides a compelling experience but they left innovation behind a few years ago.

    3. Darryl

      What are you talking about, no innovation? They courageously removed the headphone jack so they could sell more expensive bluetooth earbuds. That's innovative.

  2. AlexS
    Paris Hilton

    Who cares when Google's new phone will be announced next week.

    1. EPurpl3
    2. Argh

      I really hope that there is something pretty special about it, as it looks like they're going to charge a premium price for it, and from leaked images, it has massive top/bottom bezel (particularly as it uses on-screen navigation keys and no "proper" stereo speakers -- might have something similar to the HTC 10), and will not be as water resistant as the S7. The S7 still has one of the best cameras around (similar to the iPhone 7 plus, with each doing slightly better in different conditions from what I've seen here: http://www.cnet.com/special-reports/cameras-compared-iphone-7-plus-vs-galaxy-s7-vs-iphone-6s-plus/). I particularly hope that HTC/Google have stepped there game up here.

  3. Wibble
    Mushroom

    Apple phone prices have rocketed!

    Seen the difference between an iPhone 6s 128GB at £699 and the 'new' iPhone 7 at £819...

    Not a lot for your extra £120 quids.

    Maybe it's more expensive because of the scarcity of innovation. And no headphone socket.

    Just like their OS "updates". Nothing to see, move on...

    1. Roq D. Kasba

      Re: Apple phone prices have rocketed!

      Holy cunting fuck, I thought you were probably mistaken or lying about the £819 pricepoint. Apparently not. There's even a model £81 shy of a grand.

      iPhone 7 Price in UK (United Kingdom):

      iPhone 7 Model: iPhone 7 Price: UK

      iPhone 7 32GB £599

      iPhone 7 128GB £699

      iPhone 7 256GB £799

      iPhone 7 Plus 32GB £719

      iPhone 7 Plus 128GB £819

      iPhone 7 Plus 256GB £919

      1. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

        Re: Apple phone prices have rocketed!

        Just remenber the change in the $/£ exchange rate after that little episode in June this year.

        Remember BREXIT? The pound took a hammering.

        Two year ago it was around $1.65/£1 now it is around $1.30/£1.00

        The £/yen price alsot took a hit. My new Camera was suddenly 12% more expensive.

        The reason I know is that my company iPhone (5s) goes back on Friday when I leave that job and was looking around for a new phone. I ended up getting a second hand iPhone 6 from a pawn shop.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Apple phone prices have rocketed!

      "Seen the difference between an iPhone 6s 128GB at £699 and the 'new' iPhone 7 at £819..."

      A year ago to the day, £699 would have equated to ~US$1050. Today, £819 equates to ~US$1050.

      Care to take a guess what wiped that value off the pound? Brexit has wiped anywhere from 10-15% off the pound, and this is just one of the first signs. The prices haven't changed, it's what you're paying for it with that's changed.

      1. Wibble

        Re: Apple phone prices have rocketed!

        > £120 more, Brexit, etc.

        Why then is the 6s still the old price?

        Because they can shove up the price of the new phone whilst people are distracted by the shiney from the price hike?

        Was going to buy a new phone for the wife - for a change she'd get the new one, and I'd skip the upgrade as my 6 is fine. So thought it would be nice to get it when it was released. Then saw the price and thought bollocks to the price gouging bastards. Wife's not that interested anyway, so just not bothering.

        The reality is the 7 is a lightweight incremental update with a massive issue -- no headphone socket -- and nothing that's "must have" to counteract this. Waterproof's nice, but meh, haven't managed to dunk any previous phones in the last 25 years, so it's not that important. Not having a headphone socket is a massive pain as we've several expensive wired headphones (so definitely not Beats) and proper call-centre headsets -- a £10 tax to Apple on top of the £120 is just taking the piss.

        But this nicely sums up Apple. Their market's now millenials and hipsters with fashionable tat passing off as innovative tech. That 'watch' says it all where the strap's worth more than the bit in the middle.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Apple phone prices have rocketed!

          "Why then is the 6s still the old price?"

          It's not, it came down in price - when you buy in dollars. But as above, the fact the £ is worth eff all these days has negated that reduction.

          Call it "price gouging" if you like, but you'd need to show that the same was happening in the US, which it's not. The only conclusion you can draw is that £ has lost 15% of its value in the space of 3 months. Someone else has challenged that the price never goes the other way, but I don't recall the £ gaining a similar amount of value in the history of the iPhone being available.

      2. Hugh McIntyre

        Re: Apple phone prices have rocketed!

        Just checked in the USA:

        Last year the iPhone 6s was $749 for the 64GB, 4.7inch version, I think.

        This year the iPhone 7 is also $749 for the similar 128GB mid-point version.

        So seems to be no change in price, and I think the iPhone 6 was the same $749 for 64GB at launch.

        Still not cheap, both previously and now, but not really changed in dollars.

      3. therebel

        Re: Apple phone prices have rocketed!

        That same old nonsense was told to me by an "Apple Genius" when I asked why their already ridiculously prices USB cable had gone up from £15 to £19.

        They're like the oil companies, happy to increase due to a weak pound but I don't remember them changing the price so quick when it was the other way round.

    3. Outcast !!!

      Re: Apple phone prices have rocketed!

      Courage!

  4. inmypjs Silver badge

    Luke warm

    I thought the 7 reception was luke warm with even the fan bois thinking it was too much for too little.

  5. mIRCat

    iPhone NeXT?

    What's the price point after over priced?

  6. Pomgolian
    Joke

    How does one milk sheep?

    Release the next iPhone model

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