back to article 'Daddy, what's a Blu-ray disc?'

Vinyl LPs aren’t the only antiquated disc format that’s enjoying a revival. So is the almost forgotten Blu-ray disc. Although little noticed, sales of the pricey movie disc have continued on an ever upward trend. But its popularity has been eclipsed by OTT streaming services which brought movies and TV on demand into the …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    quality..

    "At first, the rush to digital (legal and unlicensed) saw consumers overlook a decline in quality. But as the novelty wore off, people demanded a better quality experience - hence the rise of Sonos and vinyl."

    I'm not sure how someone would demand a better quality experience from digital, by embracing Sonos (which is digital).

    As for Vinyl - only people with a very limited experience of audio storage mediums / playback would believe that vinyl beats out any other audio format since the cassette tape.. a very poor audio mastering on CD can still be worse than a very good audio mastering on vinyl, but as for what is possible with the formats themselves vinyl is far behind. Speaking as someone who has some pretty expensive turntables and amps.

    The future of music is all digital, with some people like myself that still enjoys the odd LP or two, but lets not kid ourselves (or trick innocent people into believing that vinyl has some "mystical" and "warmer" sound - they might as well start investing in hand-braided interconnect cables and special speaker cabinet wax).

    1. Richard 22

      Re: quality..

      Note the word "experience" rather than "quality". Sonos is a better experience than MP3s on a computer or a hifi that does playback from a USB stick. Vinyl being a better experience is certainly a personal thing - scratches, hiss, clicks pops, flipping discs etc don't make for a better "experience" in my opinion, but some people clearly like something about vinyl (handling discs? bigger artwork?) enough to cause a revival.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: quality..

        Stop pretending Sonos is a real thing, rather than a confusing array of consumer hi-fi equipment, phone app (because reasons), probably some sort of music store, and lots and lots of DRM.

        1. Chris 125

          Re: quality..

          I'm pretty sure Sonos is a "thing". Although you're not entirely sure, with the "probably a digital store" suggesting you've never used it. So you can say you learned something today, Sonos don't have a digital store to buy music, they let you use whichever supported service you already use.

          The app? Well that's necessary as you're not streaming from your mobile device, you're instructing the speaker where to get music from. So I can start playing my Spotify tracks, leave the house, and someone else can pick up with their app and carry on. Try that on Bluetooth and you'll get 10m from the front door.

          Whether it's your thing or not is down to you, but they've got a pretty good customer base so it's definitely a thing. You don't have to get all frumpy and old fashioned just because the word "app" scares you.

          1. Joe Harrison

            Re: quality..

            I wasn't sure what a Sonos was either so had a look on the internet. I am still not sure but I have learnt that its prices are in the intergalactic range. For that sort of money I would want something more than "something which can play Spotify without bluetooth" because a 15 quid Chromecast Audio can easily manage that.

      2. dajames Silver badge

        Re: quality..

        ... some people clearly like something about vinyl (handling discs? bigger artwork?) enough to cause a revival.

        ... not to mention the fact that the analogue vinyl recording format makes no provision for DRM (not if you want to be able to play the records on existing equipment, anyway).

        1. Dave 126 Silver badge

          Re: quality..

          >... not to mention the fact that the analogue vinyl recording format makes no provision for DRM

          Well, vinyl wouldn't provide Digital Rights Management, hehe! The idea of 'vinyl Analogue RM' may have been around, but it never worked in practice - if it was ever implemented at all:

          Copy-protection for vinyl in the 1970s

          http://www.currybet.net/cbet_blog/2008/01/copy-protection-for-vinyl-in-t.php

      3. fuzzie

        Re: quality..

        I suspect part of the appeal is the ritual that goes with non-digital consumption. A fully laden (African) mp3 player or infinite play list streaming service turns music listening into a background activity, typically in relatively noisy environments (think: car, train/metro, bus) with cruddy headphones (or ear buds). As a consequence music's being produced with very narrow dynamic range to compete with background noise.

        Vinyl, or even Compact Disc, has the ritual of loading the media, committing to an album, and settling in to listen attentively. Maybe the album could see a resurgence as well, instead of the hit singles releases. You cannot present richly textured/layered story-telling with a single track.

        1. heyrick Silver badge

          Re: quality..

          What originally helped to kill the "album" were the filler tracks, plus recycling songs so the same thing turned up on multiple albums. When downloads and such came along, we could choose to buy only the songs we want to listen to (1) and not the "other rubbish".

          1 - mostly. I say mostly as some services (hello Deezer) have taken to replacing original copies of older tracks (mastered the old way) with shiny new "remastered" versions. I've yet to hear one remastered anything that improves upon the original.

      4. Repnescasb

        Re: quality..

        When I was younger, listening to LPs was an experience, a group of us would rotate around various houses and listen to an album, sometimes because someone had just bought a new one or you wanted to hear more of a band you were getting into and a friend had more of their albums. The cost was significantly higher per LP compared to earnings at the time, so lending / sharing was common.

        LPs were more than just the audio on them, art work, sleeve notes, burn marks from not so carefully consumed items were all part of listening. Generally we used to listen from start to finish, too much effort to get up and skip a track, so some songs which probably wouldn't have had more than a single listen would get attention, with people debating the merits, or lack of.

        I had a lot more time back then, before work and family, but still remember many a great evening just sharing music with a bunch of similarly enthused people. Although it's been many years since I've played some the the LPs, they're still good fun to get out and just look and recall, especially when a trip with hard earned cash meant at most a weekly trip to HMV.

        These days everything is just so freely (or cheaply) available it's become devoid of much of it's value. Remembering where you bought your first MP3, or streamed your first spotify seems somewhat less valuable.

        There's also so much more media and activity demanding people's attention, that it seems few people actually would listen to a whole album these days. I ran a studio for a while and working with one band doing an album's worth, rather than a single song or demo, it really struck me that theirs was the first album I'd sat and listened to the whole way through for many years.

        Don't get me wrong, I love having effectively unlimited songs on a phone, but whilst convenient and of technical high quality (well, mp3 aside) it's just not the same. Sometimes too much choice is no choice.

      5. JacobZ
        Pint

        Re: quality..

        some people clearly like something about vinyl (handling discs? bigger artwork?) enough to cause a revival.

        I do think this is part of the story: the rituals and practices heighten the anticipation of the moment. The fact that many of the rituals are tactile (e.g. the special way they wipe the dust, the care with which they lower the arm) is important. Regardless of what it may (or may not) objectively do to the music reproduction, it really can change some people's subjective enjoyment. (Compare: tea-making rituals).

        And then behind that is the opportunity for geekery: to know more than the average person about selecting and matching components for the "best" reproduction, to read endless magazine articles about the specs of the latest equipment, agonizing over whether to upgrade now or hold out for better: for many of this type, the equipment is more important than the music.

        And third, there's the lure of exclusivity and collectability: vinyl, especially older vinyl, is a physical artifact that exists in finite quantities and is found in physical locations. The search for a rare copy in good condition of a particular edition can itself be rewarding in a way that finding an MP3 online really is not.

        And to be honest, I have no problem with people who enjoy vinyl in any of those ways, so long as they don't insist that their end result "must" be better than mine and that I'm doing it wrong by listening to MP3s on a tiny SanDisk through ear buds to drown out the noise of the lawn mower.

      6. Chris Parsons

        Re: quality..

        Lovely cartoon in the New Yorker about a year ago:

        2 chaps in a fancy loft apartment, one says to the other "What first attracted me to vinyl was the expense and inconvenience."

        Sums it up for me!

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: quality..

      Since you mention cables and wax, I'll slide this in here.

      http://marigoaudio.com/tuning-dots/

      I mean who would ... how? why?

      1. Electron Shepherd

        Re: quality..

        I mean who would ... how? why?

        The who part is easy. If you think that a £700 0.5m USB cable (http://www.russandrews.com/ks2416-ag-usb-cable/ will make a difference, you'll certainly think that some sticky felt circles will be the finishing touch to your "audio experience".

        As for the why part... ... nope - no idea.

        1. Prst. V.Jeltz Silver badge

          Re: quality..

          OMG you wernt joking!

          that link didnt work too well , but same cable here:

          https://www.thecableco.com/Product/KS-2436-AG-USB

          $825

          Surely this is just a joke listing? the Audiophiles having a laugh at us?

          sort of like: " hey lets put one of our top audio cables , worth £20 , up in the shop for £800 - then those muggles will think we're really crazy , lulz ..."

      2. paulf Silver badge
        Facepalm

        Re: quality..

        @ Anonymous Coward

        "Since you mention cables and wax, I'll slide this in here. http://marigoaudio.com/tuning-dots/"

        I had a look on that site - clearly I picked the wrong career:

        Titanium power cable 6ft $2995

        I wonder if it implicitly upgrades the copper ring main it connects to. Or the old fuse box with ceramic fuse wire carriers.

        There might be a facepalm icon but this really requires a head in hands quietly weeping icon.

        1. Baldy50

          Re: quality..

          Would still use copper for the current carrying conductors inside as Titanium is a very poor conductor of electricity, so just a pretty costly covering.

          1. paulf Silver badge

            Re: quality..

            @ Baldy50

            "Would still use copper for the current carrying conductors inside as Titanium is a very poor conductor of electricity, so just a pretty costly covering."

            It might use a length of super cooled unicorn hair to carry the current - it's irrelevant what it uses. My point is that even if the cable delivers completely all of its wild promises it would be immediately let down by the rest of the infrastructure used to deliver that current to the wall socket.

            The same is true with all of this extreme Hi-Fi bunkum - it relies on people not realising 1. They will *never* notice the difference (even if they think they can) and 2. The chain is only as strong as it's weakest link - a fancy power lead won't change your house wiring or the distribution grid. In some cases the meat bag's own sensors are the limiting aspect.

            1. Timbo

              Re: quality..

              "The chain is only as strong as it's weakest link - a fancy power lead won't change your house wiring or the distribution grid. In some cases the meat bag's own sensors are the limiting aspect."

              Actually, many "fancy power leads" are shielded...which does two things:

              It prevents the magnetic/electrical field that is around the power lead (when actually providing voltage and current) from having an effect on OTHER speaker, power and interconnect cables in/around the back panels of the hi-fi system...esp if higher currents are being drawn, which leads to higher levels of induced signals in other nearby cables...and esp those that are not well shielded (if at all).

              And it prevents other cables from inducing "noise" into the "fancy power lead" too...

              Of course, there are all manner of ways in which interference can be induced into other nearby products...but there are ways of reducing/minimising this by careful product design.

              The trouble is that some brands do seem to have marketing depts who have Ph.D's in snake oil theories...which then makes it look like EVERY "upgrade" solution is "suspect", when in fact some very simple (and not expensive) products can bring about noticeable improvements.

              1. Timbo

                Re: quality..

                PS: By coincidence, I found a link on Facebook to this article...

                http://www.wsj.com/articles/a-gift-for-music-lovers-who-have-it-all-a-personal-utility-pole-1471189463

                Pricey idea but not totally daft !!

              2. MJI Silver badge

                Re: quality..

                "The chain is only as strong as it's weakest link - a fancy power lead won't change your house wiring or the distribution grid. In some cases the meat bag's own sensors are the limiting aspect."

                "Actually, many "fancy power leads" are shielded...which does two things:"

                Shielded interconnects, and keep your speaker cables away from the the mains leads.

        2. AndrueC Silver badge
          Facepalm

          Re: quality..

          Does this make you cry a bit more?

          "* High-grade optical fiber for distortion-free sound

          * Gold-plated connectors provide precise contact for the best sound quality"

        3. Frenchie Lad

          Re: quality..

          Exactly the reason why my house wiring, circa 1910, still uses ceramic fuse wire holders which renders the sound superb, naturally using special copper wire fuses to ensure purity of electricity throughout.

          1. paulf Silver badge
            Joke

            Re: quality..

            @ Frenchie Lad

            "Exactly the reason why my house wiring, circa 1910, still uses ceramic fuse wire holders which renders the sound superb, naturally using special copper wire fuses to ensure purity of electricity throughout."

            That's all well and good but if you haven't upgraded to the properly shielded Titanium fuses (£1000 each) you just won't be able to fully appreciate the purity of the music. Make sure you upgrade all of your fuses otherwise some impurities can echo back along the wires from your light bulbs.

      3. herman Silver badge

        Re: quality..

        I think the Marigo Audio Lab tuning dots would work best when applied directly to the eardrum.

        1. theModge

          Re: quality..

          http://theadvancedaudiophile.tk/

          http://www.pwbelectronics.co.uk/product/cream/cream.html

          It's a cream. To make your hifi sound better. Worse still I can find no evidence it is a spoof Someone has reinvented snake oil sales for the 21st century.

          1. Dave 126 Silver badge

            Re: quality..

            >Worse still I can find no evidence it [http://www.pwbelectronics.co.uk/product/cream/cream.html] is a spoof Someone has reinvented snake oil sales for the 21st century.

            No proof of a spoof, but all evidence points that way:

            Free sound improving techniques:

            Plain piece of paper under one of four feet.

            Pinning back one corner of a curtain.

            Plain piece of Blue paper under any vase of flowers or any pot plant in the listening room.

            Tying a Reef knot.

            Freezing using a domestic deep freezer.

            Pieces of quarter round wooden doweling in all right angles.

            Aligning the slots in screw heads.

            - http://www.pwbelectronics.co.uk/free-sound-improving-techniques

            1. MJI Silver badge

              Re: quality.. - some real answers.

              Some real answers are.

              Decent interconnects for analogue, well shielded. Mechanically reliable, do not allow signals to leak in. Avoid crosstalk.

              Decent interconnects for digital, basically is it tough enough not to break, cause drop outs, fall out of sockets.

              Decent stand for players with moving parts, make sure the turntable has a secure base. This can make a huge difference with SOME equipment.

              Thick speaker cable of reasonable quality. again a case of making sure it doesn't colour the signal with high resistance.

              Wall rugs is a good one, carpets is another.

              Avoid signal cable adaptors, use a BNC plug rather than a phono BNC adaptor.

              Uncompressed, lossless, or high bitrates.

              All of these are a case of decent quality rather than expensive. Most important things are to not fall apart and to get the information from one place to another as well as possible. The most obvious places for different quality of cables are SCART leads, you can tell between a cheap and a well made. Any really poor interconnects can act as aerials.

              Real jokes are gold plated optical cables, Monster, £40 HDMI cables (unless long). Bose.

              Decent components do not have to be expensive, amps, about £100 a channel, speakers around £100 a box is a good starting point for a really good system.

              Also do not be afraid of trying alternative sources, been cases of DVD players beating CD players at playing CDs.

              For information my HDMI cables were given to me with TV but were £10 each. Analogue interconnects a couple of quid, (under £5 a set - but bought YEARS ago), speaker cable, can't remember how much I paid but nice and chunky. My most expensive cable is still a SCART lead.

              Diminishing returns cuts in a lot lower than a lot of people think.

            2. Allan George Dyer Silver badge
              Coat

              Re: quality..

              @Dave 126 - Perhaps those "Free sound improving techniques" are there to flag up the gullible, and they are sending teams of con-artists round, looking for easy marks?

              Perhaps they're selling training courses to stupid con-artists on how to look for these signs?

        2. Baldy50

          Re: quality..

          The best, easiest and cheapest way I improved a good system was to hang some Moroccan rugs on the walls, they were aesthetically pleasing BTW.

          1. Wilseus

            Re: quality..

            "The best, easiest and cheapest way I improved a good system was to hang some Moroccan rugs on the walls, they were aesthetically pleasing BTW."

            Yes, improving the listening room pays dividends. There are also commercial products sold for these purposes. Most are extremely effective but are, IMO overpriced for what they are, and generally have a poor WAF.

            *WAF = Wife Acceptance Factor.

        3. jeffdyer

          Re: quality..

          I was thinking rectum.

      4. ChrisBedford

        Re: quality..

        I mean who would ... how? why?

        I have long since maintained there is no snob like a self-styled audiophile, but the stringing together of so many meaningless buzzwords in one short review has to take some sort of prize.

        People who can talk like this aren't listening to the music, they are listening to the sound equipment. You have to pity them, really. SEVENTY NINE DOLLARS for a small handful of little plastic stick-on feet that you can get at your local Builders' Mart for probably $3... I guess if you are forking out that kind of cash you'd better expect that "Improvements in soundstage dimensionality and image clarity" would be "readily apparent", as and as for the removal of "harmonic smearing", ooh well now.

    3. Dave 126 Silver badge

      Re: quality..

      >a very poor audio mastering on CD can still be worse than a very good audio mastering on vinyl... ...lets not kid ourselves (or trick innocent people into believing that vinyl has some "mystical" and "warmer" sound - they might as well start investing in hand-braided interconnect cables and special speaker cabinet wax).

      Indeed. Because of its inherent limitations, mastering on vinyl requires greater care - by a human being with ears. This can give some recordings a different sound on vinyl compared to CD, sometimes a sound that can be called 'warmer'. High fidelity? No, it is isn't. Better sounding than CD? Sometimes yes, though of course it is subjective - and largely a function of the mastering, not the medium.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: quality..

        "This can give some recordings a different sound on vinyl compared to CD, sometimes a sound that can be called 'warmer'."

        Yup - and if you want you can record that "warmer" sound into flac format (or onto a blank CDR), and you can then listen to an exact reproduction of that "warmer LP sound" wherever you are... you can even close your eyes and pretend that there is spinning vinyl somewhere nearby :)

        Of course, I still like vinyl for tactile / sentimental / ritual reasons...

        To be clear - I'm agreeing with you :D

        1. Dave 126 Silver badge

          Re: quality..

          CDR? Get back to your cave, Mr Flintstone! :D

        2. Charles 9 Silver badge

          Re: quality..

          "Yup - and if you want you can record that "warmer" sound into flac format (or onto a blank CDR), and you can then listen to an exact reproduction of that "warmer LP sound" wherever you are... you can even close your eyes and pretend that there is spinning vinyl somewhere nearby :)"

          Isn't the problem here that you really CAN'T capture the full vinyl range even with FLAC because vinyl is an analog medium and therefore works on a continuous range (it operates over the R set, so to speak) whereas FLAC is digital and therefore has a discrete range (say in the Z set)? Now, Z ⊂ R but R ⊄ Z, meaning there's no physical way to fully duplicate the analog vinyl range on a digital FLAC; the best you can do is get a very close approximation.

          1. naive

            Re: quality..

            Last week I installed after 20 years the record player to show to kids what vinyl is, and the fascinating movement of the turntable.

            Although all the components involved are mid range 80's vintage, the quality of sound is fascinating, it made me realize we lost a lot with all the A/D conversion. It noticed it before at a friend using McIntosh components from the 60's, featuring soup can sized condensers, how great sound can be when no chips are involved in signal processing.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: quality..

              @naive

              "The quality of sound is simply an artefact of the RIAA equalisation curve".

              FTFY

        3. bri

          Re: quality.. (@AC)

          Warmer sound through digital? You can't be... You can't be ... You can't be ... You can't be serious!

          BTW vinyl itself has a physical DRM in place, built-in (or pressed-in?). It has practical limits on number of replays.

          Stimulates the imagination though. You have to imagine the original sound when listening to well-worn favourite LP. It sounds so warm that it is completely unintelligible for someone who doesn't know it from heart. It follows that vinyl is best for music you hate :D

    4. John Lilburne

      Re: quality..

      ... is almost always bollocks. Most of us cannot hear the difference, not when listing in a front room, kitchen, or bedroom, and almost certainly not when listening through ear buds no matter how much you got stiffed for them. I have a tiny £20 car amp power my speakers. It has fooled a sound engineer who does work for films. Quite a "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" moment for him, as he stared all weekend at it saying "but, but, it is a car amp".

      The same goes for 4K video none of us live in a place where we have a big enough screen, and sit close enough to in order to see the difference.

      http://www.cnet.com/uk/news/why-ultra-hd-4k-tvs-are-still-stupid/

      All of this is idiots being relieved of their cash by the promise inherent in a big box.

      1. Prst. V.Jeltz Silver badge

        Re: quality..

        http://www.cnet.com/uk/news/why-ultra-hd-4k-tvs-are-still-stupid/

        Paying for a gaming video card that can do 4k , is an extra dimension of pointlessness . Unless you are playing the game in a CINEMA

        1. Charles 9 Silver badge

          Re: quality..

          "Paying for a gaming video card that can do 4k , is an extra dimension of pointlessness . Unless you are playing the game in a CINEMA"

          Or are using a very large screen in the traditional position of a computer monitor (just a foot or two away) meaning you can actually see the pixels that close up and being able to discern detail from a longer distance can make a difference in say an FPS where you're in a sniper duel.

        2. Phil Bennett

          Re: quality..

          Quote: "http://www.cnet.com/uk/news/why-ultra-hd-4k-tvs-are-still-stupid/

          Paying for a gaming video card that can do 4k , is an extra dimension of pointlessness . Unless you are playing the game in a CINEMA"

          You did read the article you linked to, right? Where they explained patiently that *viewing distance matters*?

          I haven't yet updated to a 4k capable PC, so I've got no skin in this game, but I tend to be playing about 50cm from the screen rather than a more normal TV viewing distance of 2+ metres.

          My next PC will have a 4k display because extra resolution is incredibly useful for work (my current PC has 3 monitors, a single large 4k screen will replace them all). Will gaming look any better? Probably, but I'll be using VR goggles instead (viewing distance: 5cm) :)

      2. fuzzie

        Re: quality..

        Yes, and no. While I mostly agree on the 4K is excessive point, the recent screens introduced High Dynamic Range. This is also part of the UHD Blu-ray specification. 4K may me gimmicky, HDR most definitely makes a huge difference. It's the thing they should've gone after from the start, but pushing more pixels was easier (to make and to sell).

      3. Joe Gurman

        Re: quality..

        Several years ago, I mentioned to a religiously audiophile [*] individual that I could not possibly hear the difference between digital and analog recordings, simply because of the loss of high-end hearing response as one ages. He assured me that real audiophiles could. It was at that moment that I realized that I was totally satisfied with my penis size.

        [*] As certified by his arising articles for audiophile magazines. (Yes, paper ones.)

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: quality..

          Since I have some hearing loss and resultant tinnitus in one ear, the only benefit to me of vinyl is that I could get my old Motorhead albums out of the loft and play those "for free" rather than spending money on a CD or digital download.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: quality..

            I've noticed that both of the self-proclaimed audiophiles at my workplace are deaf.

        2. John Lilburne

          Re: quality..

          "He assured me that real audiophiles could."

          Oh I had one that told me how good CDs were that the difference was amazing, eventually he gave me the old CD player he was replacing. A few weeks later he came around and said "See how much better the CD is." I replayed, "that is vinyl you are listening to mate".

          Think about all the audiophile fads there have been over the years, linear arm tracking, three point speakers, tube amps, etc, etc. I've known people spend fortunes on that stuff, only to replace it all when the next best thing came along.

      4. Wilseus

        Re: quality..

        "... is almost always bollocks. Most of us cannot hear the difference, not when listing in a front room..."

        The difference between what and what, exactly? Are you saying all hifi systems sound the same? Or that most people can't tell the difference between a stereo and a live concert?

        I agree with you regarding 4K TVs though.

    5. jeffdyer

      Re: quality..

      Head over to Stereophile for some interesting discussions on $1500 AC/kettle leads.

    6. AndrueC Silver badge
      Happy

      Re: quality..

      One of the advantages over vinyl that CDs have is increased dynamic range. Unfortunately the loudness wars took a chunk out of that :(

      Then we lost another chunk of quality when MP3 became about the only format used commercially.

      Another chunk was lost when people decided they couldn't be bothered buying a proper hifi but would just attach their <insert portable music player here> to a pair of cheap speakers using bluetooth.

      So I think it's entirely possible that a well engineered vinyl album played via a good hifi-system would sound better overall than a lot of what people are listening to today Personally I go with lossless music streamed from a home server played through a Squeezebox Touch and a Onkyo 507r with Q Acoustic speakers.

      It'd sound even better if my ears weren't nearly fifty years old though. I suspect that makes the most difference :(

    7. illiad

      Re: quality..

      The problem is, 80% of people just want 'something to throw in the hifi for music' and and do not care a bleep bleep bleep about 'quality'... this is why CD and DVDs and of course USB etc are still being used... (of course many of these do not even know what USB means... )

      the above do not want to spend money on the stuff, they would much rather save it for a decent fun car, or other proper luxuries...

      and of course, there are those who think nothing of spending upward of £10,000 on a hifi system, and lovingly care for their vinyl to get the 'real sound'...

    8. ZeiXi

      Re: quality..

      Well, it would not be useful to compare vinyl and CD. Also, being an owner of expensive turntables and amps does not entitle one to use phrases like "only people with a very limited experience of audio storage mediums". Vinyls are analog media and good vinyls played through a good system would give very good reproductions. CDs, as well as other digital media, require sound to be chopped up and stored, and on playback they are re-assembled into little rectangular bits, then smoothed over to resemble analog. In theory, therefore, there must be differences in their sounds. Furthermore, vinyls requires a magnetic pickup that sits in a groove. Like it or not there is no such thing as a perfect vinyl on a perfect turntable such that the pickup does not pick up some wobble. As such, the overall sound differs from CD. Some love it and some, based strictly on technicalities, find it hard to embrace. But it certainly is not due to a lack of experience in any area for one to prefer vinyl sounds.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Paris Hilton

    "The 4K Blu-ray format was only launched last year, and only benefits from a 4K or UltraHD telly."

    "Somewhat confusingly, most TVs sold as 4K (4096x2160) are really Ultra HD (3840x2160) – so caveat emptor. ®"

    Eh?

    1. Richard 22

      There are 2 competing '4K' sizes - one which is 4K pixels wide (4096x2160) and one which is double 1080p in either dimension (3840x2160), but not quite 4K pixels wide. Not sure which format 4K blu-ray uses, or how much difference a normal person would be able to spot either with scaling or chopping off the edges if content had to be reformatted between the two.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Paris Hilton

        Yes, I'm well aware of all the ExtraFullMegaUHDDouplePlusGreat shit... just having trouble gleaning meaningful intent from the second part of that quote in the context of the first part of the quote.

        Still means nothing worthwhile to me.

        :-|

      2. Down not across Silver badge

        There are 2 competing '4K' sizes - one which is 4K pixels wide (4096x2160) and one which is double 1080p in either dimension (3840x2160), but not quite 4K pixels wide.

        And your normal punter will be none the wiser bit like back when HDTV was the new thing and everything was marketed as HD until lesser resolution had to be eventually marketed as "HD Ready". Admittedly 3840x2160 will probably suit the average punter just fine it being 16:9 that they're used to.

        Makes more of a difference for any of us who might use the screen as computer display.

      3. Robert Baker
        Facepalm

        "There are 2 competing '4K' sizes - one which is 4K pixels wide (4096x2160) and one which is double 1080p in either dimension (3840x2160), but not quite 4K pixels wide."

        The trouble with the term "HD" is that it is becoming meaningless through abuse, like the way "hi-fi" all too often means only "this device makes some kind of sound"[*]. In video projectors particularly, I've seen ones advertised as "HD" (which if true would mean 1920x1080) which in fact aren't even XGA (1024x768).

        [*] I have actually seen the term "hi-fi" applied to an electronic organ, which is a sound generator and hence has no "fidelity" to be higher or lower.

        1. illiad

          indeed, there was a company called 'hifidelity' that produced cheap stuff, for those with no idea of quality sound...

    2. TechnicalBen Silver badge

      Worse...

      A few (mainly OLED ones) are using 1.5 pixels when you would normally have 2. So they display 2880 real pixels and extrapolate the 4k down to that. I think they get away with it because they do have a "half" pixel. They alternate the colours green and blue every 2 pixels, but each pixel does not do the full colour range. Similar to the iPhone retina display.

      A bit like how digital video has a lower colour resolution to save on bandwidth, these tvs may have a lower sub pixel resolution to save on costs.

      It basically tries to use sub pixel rendering to make it look like it is a higher res panel. :/

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sub-pixel_resolution

      I know it's pedantic, but I prefer them to advertise the true details of the panel. Far too many just go "it's a HD TV" and later you find out they redefined "HD" to mean "Heavily Dented". ;)

      1. Sorry that handle is already taken. Silver badge
        WTF?

        Re: Worse...

        They're using pentile subpixel matrices in TVs now? Is there no god? Wait, don't answer that.

      2. DougS Silver badge

        @TechnicalBen

        You are talking about pentile displays, which Apple does NOT use on any of its devices. Samsung's OLEDs are all pentile, so the resolution is not actually as great as they claim. Supposedly the pentile layout was to solve OLED's problem of pixel lifetime, though I don't know the details on how that works.

        As far as OLED TVs, I don't know which ones are pentile and which ones are full resolution. You'd probably have to read the review at a high end site to find out for sure about a particular model, though I suppose if you look really closely at the scree or take a picture of it you can probably see the pixel pattern especially on larger TVs.

        1. TechnicalBen Silver badge

          Re: @TechnicalBen

          Thanks DougS, I did not know the name for it. I was under the impression Samsung accused LG of that. I did not know if it was the other way around (I've not seen any marketed OLEDs from Samung except for phones, and yes, sadly my one is pentile. :( ). But for TVs I think it's mainly LG that are doing it with OLED.

    3. Wade Burchette Silver badge

      4096x2160 is the 256:135 aspect ratio found in movies today.

      3840x2160 is the 16:9 aspect ratio standard for broadcast television.

      1. Prst. V.Jeltz Silver badge

        congrats Wade - most informative comment in the list in 2 sentences!

      2. Prst. V.Jeltz Silver badge

        if anyone is having trouble wondering what shape screen you are supposed to have for the bewildering array of resolutions your computer will output these days , then this script I wrote will reduce any res given to its lowest whole number ration - ie 4:9 or 16:9 etc . It also proves Wade is correct.

        -----------------------------------------------------------------

        w=wscript.arguments(0)

        h=wscript.arguments(1)

        n=2

        pass=1

        do until n=>h OR n=>w

        if h/n=clng(h/n) AND w/n=clng(w/n) then

        h=h/n

        w=w/n

        else

        'wscript.echo " dont divide"

        n=n+1

        end if

        pass=pass+1

        'wscript.echo "Pass " & pass & ", n= " & n &" Height="&h&" Width="&w

        loop

        wscript.echo

        wscript.echo "---------------------------------------"

        wscript.echo "Answer is Width="&w &", Height=" & h & " (" & w & "x" & h &")"

        1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge
          Joke

          "this script I wrote"

          Is that bash or sh?

    4. Joe Gurman

      Really

      Not too surprising if you didn't fall off the turnip truck yesterday, but "4K" TV isn't. Not by 'arf.

    5. MJI Silver badge

      I'd be happy with doubled up full HD

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Skeevy bastards

    HD means 1080p right? No what gave you that crazy idea. That's FULL HD.

    4K means (at least) 4000 pixels wide right? No, you're looking for FULL 4K.

    1. Dave 126 Silver badge

      Re: Skeevy bastards

      '4K' is only really a marketing term, but a useful one - the screen is almost 4,000 pixels wide, and the screens have nearly 4 times the resolution of 'HD' screens.

      I can't really think of a better, easily grokkable term for them: 'SuperDuperUltraHD' or somesuch would only confuse consumers after the whole 'HD Ready / Full HD / i / p' kerfuffle.

      UltraHD TVs can be very nice - not because of the extra pixels, but because of the greater dynamic range that is contained within the standard. A friend of mine recently bought an OLED 4K TV, which cost about 4 times more than a LCD/LED 4K TV... but the image is gorgeous.

      Annoyingly, few 4K TVs have DisplayPort inputs, and few non-gaming graphics cards have HDMI 2.0 output yet. For sure, most 4K TVs can access 4K content by themselves (Netflix et al), but it would be nice to have a 4K computer display for pictures and the like.

      1. jason 7 Silver badge

        Re: Skeevy bastards

        Is it a case of 4096x2160 is a film industry standard for production and mastering and 3840x2160 is the domestic end product for consumers?

        Not that bothered really as I missed Blu-Ray and went straight to streaming.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Facepalm

          Re: Skeevy bastards

          The 4K/"UHD++(spits)" situation is just another vhs/betamax, cd-rw/cd+rw, style "standards" war as two cartels battle over which will suck up our royalties :(

          4K is better - so "UHD++ExtraMore" will win.

      2. TechnicalBen Silver badge

        Re: Dave 126.

        No. Just NO!

        The OLED provides better dynamic range. (Black has always been black, white has always been white, everything else is false advertising)

        The OLED has better colour reproduction. (Green is green, red is red etc, everything else is false advertising)

        The UHD/4K provides better resolution.

        The resolution alone is a nice touch, it is an improvement as with all things. It is down to personal taste and specific content on if this is needed or wanted (for example I like it, but others wear glasses and see no benefit).

        But how does it offer "greater dynamic range"? It is a TV with pre-recorded content, OLED and black is black, white is white. How can they "increase" that via the source data or by changing from 8bit to 10bit colour? They can't. ;)

        BUT, the 4K does offer finer colour range. So sunsets and subtle colour gradients have no banding. But to be honest, I've only ever seen banding on PC games/webpages, never on TV content as this naturally provides dithering that even at SD is perceivable.

        TL:DR, the advertisers and marketers are very good at using the wrong words to describe real changes, and you seem to have fallen for it. AFAIK they even back ported some firmware to add High Dynamic Range to HD TVs (you saw a real change, colour improvement and contrast from the OLED/backlights in LED, the marketers lied and said it was a 4k improvement only).

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Thumb Down

          Re: Dave 126.

          LEP (CDT->Samsung now being mismarketed as "OLED") displays offer greater dynamic range because they're emissive rather than transmissive... so when a pixel is off it emits no light and that "black" you referred to is actually black. Unlike LCD type displays which try to filter out as much of the backlight as possible to make what they pass off as "black." 100% filtering isn't possible so "black" isn't black. Googling "IPS glow" should give you some pretty extreme illustrations.

          Similarly LEP panels offer vastly superior colour gamut because each subpixel emits its (comparatively pure) primary... rather than (partially successfully) attempting to filter out the right amount of the unwanted primaries from a visually "white" backlight. 100% filtering isn't possible so saturation as pure as the shitty backlights could offer isn't even achievable.

          1. Dave 126 Silver badge

            Re: Dave 126.

            > Googling "IPS glow" should give you some pretty extreme illustrations.

            I don't need to Google it, I've seen it! :D Very noticeable when watching 'letter-boxed' content (i.e a movie whose aspect ratio is different to that of my old LCD/LED screen. The 'black bars' at the top and bottom of my screen are not black, and can be easily seen against the background if the room's lights are turned off.

            My friend's OLED TV is a different matter. You just cannot discern any letterboxing at all in a dark room - which is what you would expect. It really does make for a better film viewing experience, especially during darker scenes. He knew his viewing habits, weighed up the benefits against the cost and made decision.

            However, read up on it - if you use your TV for watching football on a Saturday afternoon for example, you might be better served by the greater maximum brightness of a modern LED set.

            1. bitmap animal
              Thumb Up

              Re: Dave 126.

              My friend's OLED TV is a different matter. You just cannot discern any letterboxing at all in a dark room -

              Just to support you on this observation. I've a calibrated plasma screen which is pretty good, smooth colour etc - not far off the best you could get as I understand. A relative got an OLED screen last year and the clarity was stunning but the main thing was black is black. It's a leap in picture quality IMHO, not just an evolution.

            2. Anonymous Coward
              Alien

              Re: Dave 126.

              Seems I owe you an apology too Dave! My splaff was directed at Ben's "No. Just NO" rant, not at you! Although I found it difficult to discern where his sarcasm ends and sincerity begins.

              I think we're basically in agreement!

            3. Prst. V.Jeltz Silver badge

              the black bars

              "The 'black bars' at the top and bottom of my screen are not black, and can be easily seen against the background if the room's lights are turned off."

              so what? they arnt part of the picture! do watch tv in total darkness? when i watch tv i can see all sorts of things . mainly beer cans.

        2. Dave 126 Silver badge

          Re: Dave 126.

          >But how does it offer "greater dynamic range"? It is a TV with pre-recorded content, OLED and black is black, white is white. How can they "increase" that via the source data or by changing from 8bit to 10bit colour? They can't. ;)

          How? Because UltraHD includes the Rec 2020 colour space specification, at either 10 bit or 12 bit per pixel. The specs cover the content, not just the final display output.

          'White' is not the brightest. For a demonstration of a file having more information that the display device, just download a *.EXR or *.HDR image file, view them in PhotoShop (Gimp users need a fork called CinePaint) and play with the slider in the bottom left hand corner - it is akin to adjusting the exposure of a camera. Such files are used as environment maps in 3D raytracing, because light sources depicted in the images have their brightness defined by the extra bits per pixel - thus the rendered object will have highlights and shadows. To a lesser extent, many RAW files will also contain more information than most monitors can display.

          If you reread my original post, you'll see that I said that UltraHD TVs have greater dynamic range, not '4K' TVs per se. That was very deliberate distinction, though of course most '4K' sets will soon conform to UHD (the first 4K sets were sold before the standards were finalised).

          >The UHD/4K provides better resolution.

          UHD is a set of standards that include resolution *and* colour space, including a greater dynamic range.

          >The OLED provides better dynamic range. (Black has always been black, white has always been white, everything else is false advertising)

          OLED does allow for proper black (each pixel is its own light source), but there are techniques that increase the dynamic range of LED sets (effectively 'local dimming'). LED sets still won't have the absolute black of OLED, but they have greater absolute brightness. This is accounted for by UHD standards.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-high-definition_television#Color_space.2C_dynamic_range.2C_and_frame_rate

          >TL:DR, the advertisers and marketers are very good at using the wrong words to describe real changes, and you seem to have fallen for it.

          I'm not clear what you think I've fallen for. Your post suggests that you think UHD only covers resolution. The idea that 'black is black and white is white' applies to printed images but not necessarily to display devices (or for that matter, stained glass windows).

          1. TechnicalBen Silver badge

            Re: Dave 126.

            Sorry Dave, I guess as said, it is the marketing. Dynamic range has little to do with contrast ratio. The "brightness" as such. Dynamic range defines the colourspace in between. Why? We can talk about bit depth forever, but the panels have physical limits. :)

            CRT/LCD/OLED all have physical maximums or manufactures tolerances. The bit depth makes no difference. What is the proof? You just asked me to look at a HDR image on my non-10bit PC panel (I would guess it's 8bit). I can still see the HDR image perfectly. :D

            What I don't see is a perfect gradient between the colours. I may get more banding than another person. I think you know this, but described the colour range and brightness and contrast in the same sentence. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_depth

            The marketers make out that 10bit depth will make images "brighter" and "crisper", which is a lie. They just remove banding and add colour. As in the past, as now, they always have the ability to map the max brightness and darkness to anything the panel can output. For example they say "does not effect total brightness" then show example images varying only in total brightness. :/

            4k as a tech does not change the max brightness (contrast ratio) in the panel. That is down to LCD backlight and OLED tech, which is separate to any resolution restrictions (currently AFAIK).

            Sorry if I thought your first post mentioned the brightness being effected by the UHD spec. As said, the HD sets previously could even support the 10bit depth, so not a 4k tech in the slightest. It does make more colours a standard though, but a rather pointless one when content can just be adjusted as you mentioned in photoshop. :P

      3. Sorry that handle is already taken. Silver badge
        Headmaster

        Re: Skeevy bastards

        [UHD and/or 4K] screens have nearly 4 times the resolution of 'HD' screens.

        Twice, actually. Resolution is a linear measurement.

        1. Charles 9 Silver badge

          Re: Skeevy bastards

          Resolution actually is an AREA (TWO-dimensional) measurement. Thus why you normally need TWO numbers to describe it properly (width and height or whatever you want to call them). The end result is a PRODUCT telling you the exact number of pixels the screen contains. An UHD does indeed contain exactly four times the number of pixels a 1080p screen does. Simple math will demonstrate. You double each dimension so you multiply each one by two. Multiplication is commutative so you can move each 2x to the side and combine them to get 4x the original resolution. Thus doubling both dimensions quadruples the pixel count (what we could call the resolution, which is always shown as a product).

          1. Sorry that handle is already taken. Silver badge

            Re: Skeevy bastards

            You're describing pixel dimensions, not resolution. Resolution is a measure of linear density (or linear detail), e.g. dots per inch, line pairs per millimetre etc.

            I have a 1920 x 1200 pixel monitor on my desk. It's a 24" monitor, thus its resolution is ~94 pixels/inch.

            1. Charles 9 Silver badge

              Re: Skeevy bastards

              Pixel dimensions IS the resolution. You're simply describing the pixel density. Otherwise, why is it that we change display resolution when we go from say 1080p to 720p? Why is a picture file's dimensions described as its resolution?

  4. Novex

    Any mastering can be good or bad. For the consumer, what then ultimately matters is the quality in the product they get. I hated vinyl (and cassette tape) due to the inherently poor quality in the materials used in the pressings once mass production was done too cheaply. I frequently found vinyl had rough patches for which I'd have to return the disc and try and get a better replacement. In general I've never had that problem with CDs, DVDs or BluRays as the quality control around them is much better and hence I've never had once in my life to return a faulty pressed digital disc. Blanks for writing and re-writing are another matter though.

    Digital files, be they downloads or streaming, don't suffer from physical production artefacts, however I find the compression levels for streaming far too high and prefer to have a disc with much lower compression and therefore a better watching and/or listening experience.

    If lossless compression with high definition sound were to become a standard for audio, I'd certainly move on from CDs, but that would very much depend on artists and music producers actually making their music available in such a format. If I want a particular track or album that isn't available like that, then disc it still has to be.

  5. TheProf

    pricey movie disc

    £15 for a newly released movie doesn't seem that pricey to me. It's about the same as a trip to the cinema but without the sticky carpet experience.

    A well known high street retailer has hundreds of BRDs for sale in a 5 for £30 offer. That makes them £6 each. They currently are doing 5 DVDs for £20 (£4 each). And of course they look better than DVDs when played on your fancy-pants OLED telly-box.

  6. Whitter
    Meh

    Blu ray pricing cf. DVD

    In the age of streaming, DVD sales are doing very well despite being an even more "forgotten" format. Blu ray's higher price is worth it for films with hi-level special effects, but otherwise why pay 30%+ over the DVD cost for pretty much the same viewing experience?

  7. Fazal Majid

    Dearth of content

    I'd buy a 4K player, but for the fact there is not a single UHD Blu-Ray release I am even remotely interested in. Perhaps when the remastered release of Lawrence of Arabia comes out, whenever that is, or Rogue One next year.

    I suspect falling sales of discs are caused as much by the creative bankruptcy of Hollywood and lack of movies worth watching as by competition from streaming.

    1. Dave 126 Silver badge

      Re: Dearth of content

      The BBC are making Planet Earth II (narrated by David Attenborough) in UHD. It's due to be broadcast later this year, hopefully with a UHD BluRay to follow.

      I know it's not David Lean, but like Lawrence it should have some spectacular scenery in it! :)

    2. Joe Gurman

      Re: Dearth of content

      Or just the availability of great, steaming piles of bandwidth and spare cash to pay for it in the urban and suburban areas where punters with the 4K kit reside.

  8. John Robson Silver badge

    What...

    No 3D?

  9. Trollslayer Silver badge
    Thumb Down

    Blur ray in Tesco etc.

    Nope, still there.

    You were saying?

  10. Dead Parrot
    Facepalm

    Are we sinking into a kB/Kib-like mess?

    So when you buy a TV, you have to peer at the specs to find out if they are kilopixels or kibipixels? Stuff that.

    1. TechnicalBen Silver badge

      Re: Are we sinking into a kB/Kib-like mess?

      Yes. Did you know there are subpixels?

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subpixel_rendering

      A full pixel reproduction of a digital image would give you 3 colours per pixel. Reg, green and blue. Sub pixel rendering allow you to adjust them to provide an image that almost gives you more pixels than you have.

      Which is fine for increasing the image quality on say, a 4000 pixel width TV. But they may do the opposite, and give you a sub 4000 pixel (or sub 3480*2160) and use sub pixels into tricking you as a consumer into thinking it is a 4k tv. :(

    2. Dave 126 Silver badge

      Re: Are we sinking into a kB/Kib-like mess?

      >So when you buy a TV, you have to peer at the specs to find out if they are kilopixels or kibipixels? Stuff that.

      Don't bother, just look for the UHD tag - that'll mean that it is 3,840 x 2,160 and that's all that most available content will take advantage of.

      Then look at your viewing habits and environment - do you watch TV in a well lit room, or is it in a darkened cave for cinema-style film viewing? This has a bearing on which display technology will be most suitable.

      After that, just make a decision about whether you want to spend extra for UHD Premium and/or Dolby Vision - these refer to the colour and dynamic range. Do note that the UHD term alone means that a TV will likely offer superior colours and dynamism than your older TV anyways.

  11. Jedit

    "a third of all Blu-ray discs sold are bought between October and December"

    Are Reg writers paid by the word, perchance? There's nothing noteworthy in the fact that 33% of discs are sold in 25% of the year, even before considering that all it indicates is that sales of leisure products rise in the run-up to Christmas.

  12. wyatt
    Meh

    Crap in = crap out.

    One of the best DVDs I have is the Gruffalo. The picture on it via my Blu-Ray player and HD screen is amazing. Sharp with excellent colours. Maybe because it's uncompressed?

    Blu-Ray discs however aren't always great, streaming I've had even more issues with but expect this due to the amount of hops between myself and the source.

    1. TechnicalBen Silver badge

      It is an animation and your HD tv (or blue ray player) can upscale it nicely without loosing definition. It will smooth the edges a little and you loose some information in the process.

      Now do that with a DVD of a nature program, compare it to a Bluray and a 4k version. Did some in store with Sony mastered safari clips, there is a nice difference. HD is a sweet spot, and 4k is nicer, but not a requirement just yet. SD is a blurry mess in comparison.

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Movies aside, I'm more interested in the use of these archival discs for games.

    1. MJI Silver badge

      Mine come on discs, as it is cheaper than the console store.

      And I can delete and reinstall from the BD if I run out of disc space.

  14. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken
    Coat

    Bah! Bring back the Laser Disk, I say!

    Mine's the one with the ... no, wait, it won't fit in any of the pockets ...

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Won't fit in your pockets.

      Betamax would.

      1. MJI Silver badge

        Re: Won't fit in your pockets.

        Except when I needed to carry them around I found one Pro-X L500 was usually sufficient for a days use, battery life however...........

    2. Down not across Silver badge

      LaserDisc

      Bah! Bring back the Laser Disk, I say!

      Hands off my CLD925! Cold hands. Dead. Pry. You know the drill.

      I actually still prefer that. Best of both worlds... lovely picture with multi-channel digital sound.

      Too much to hope it would get a revival like vinyl I guess.

  15. Christopher Reeve's Horse

    Forgotten format?

    Really? Not when I can rip them straight to my media library. Perfect for kids films that get watched over and over (and over again). Would I rather pay monthly to stream compressed films from the internet? Errr... No.

    If I want a film, I can buy it, own it forever, and do with it what I please (more or less); all without being tied into any particular subscription, platform or DRM related nightmare.

    1. GreggS

      Re: Forgotten format?

      Me too. Plex anyone?

      1. Christopher Reeve's Horse

        Re: Forgotten format?

        JRiver actually, but we're all on the same side here.

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Daddy, what's a strawman?

    A forgotten format that, as you say yourself, has "continued on an ever upward trend".

    Oh yes. totally forgotten.

    I'm one of those odd people who like to actually own their movies, rather than have some vague cloudy library that can be pulled at the whim or failure of some overseas company. I also want to watch them in high quality, and not be dependent on having a rock solid high bandwidth internet connection when I want to watch them.

    The fact that the same form factor can now hold 4K movies is just the icing on the cake.

    /Have Amazon Prime. Not impressed with the free offerings or the rental prices. Won't be renewing.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Daddy, what's a strawman?

      You own nothing. You paid for a license to use the content on the disc, so long as your don't damage it.

      1. Christopher Reeve's Horse

        Re: Daddy, what's a strawman?

        Own nothing? 'Legally' maybe I don't. But 'practically' I do. In every measurable real world practical application of the word 'usage', I own it.

        And, there's nothing that anyone's going to do about it, no-one else even cares. I own the disk, and I'm in compete control. The legal status may as well be a figment of my imagination.

        1. Charles 9 Silver badge

          Re: Daddy, what's a strawman?

          Wait until the discs get serialized and have a shelf life. You know it's going to happen eventually as the publishers want to move everyone to a forced rental model, which will also put an end to the First Sale Doctrine.

          1. Down not across Silver badge

            Re: Daddy, what's a strawman?

            Wait until the discs get serialized and have a shelf life.

            In theory AACS already provides that. Disks have unique Volume ID. Except it would require the player to be connected to the interwebs to receive revocation. And CSS has been broken anyway.

            In any case it would get broken like CSS already did.

            1. Charles 9 Silver badge

              Re: Daddy, what's a strawman?

              "In theory AACS already provides that. Disks have unique Volume ID. Except it would require the player to be connected to the interwebs to receive revocation. And CSS has been broken anyway."

              They uses a proprietary system, and IIRC certain 4k discs REQUIRE Internet access and say so on the case (the ones that don't, they don't care about too much). Combine this with an industry-standard secure protocol and the odds are they won't break it this time (and to be fair, they've learned, most consoles from the seventh gen on have been very hack-resistant) since breaking those algorithms have more serious implications.

        2. Pompous Git Silver badge

          Re: Daddy, what's a strawman?

          and I'm in compete control

          I suspect that's an illusion if DRM works the way I've been led to believe it does.

  17. THGhost

    What utter nonsense. Blu-ray is alive and well!

  18. DougS Silver badge

    4K vs UHD

    4K Blu Ray players will either scale or more likely cut the edges off. That is only about 3% of the picture on either side, it is unlikely you will miss anything important, versus say trying to fit a 16:9 picture on a 4:3 screen where cutting off the edges would mean losing 17% of the picture on either side!

    1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

      Re: 4K vs UHD

      Most "average" consumers will just set their TV or player to "zoom fill" mode, happily and obliviously watching tall skinny people or short fat people, although the difference between 4K and UHD is pretty minimal.

      I've noticed a lot of documentaries, especially US originated ones, which show old footage clips are now stretching 4:3 out to 16:9 as a matter of course. They probably have focus groups telling them that people don't like to see black bars on the screen. Pandering to the uneducated instead of educating them is the sad result.

      1. DougS Silver badge

        Re: 4K vs UHD

        If they did a zoom/fill of a 4K movie to a UHD screen, you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference since it is so much smaller than the difference between 16:9 and 4:3.

  19. Jamie Jones Silver badge
    Facepalm

    Stating the obvious

    "Some 288,000 4K Ultra Blu-ray discs were shifted in the first half of this year. The 4K Blu-ray format was only launched last year, and only benefits from a 4K or UltraHD telly."

    Stating the obvious? To us, sure, but I still recall my dad telling me that when colour tv broadcasts came to Swansea, his step-dad waited all day for the colour to appear (on the same old B&W TV they'd had for years..

  20. Ropewash
    Windows

    Lucky me.

    After decades of heavy metal concerts and running machinery for a living I no longer perceive any difference in music formats that can't be solved with the volume knob.

    The same decades involved enough arc welding and abrasive dust in the eyes that TV viewing is pleasurably vague in any colourspace.

    After reading through all these arguments I feel I've truly dodged a bullet there.

    Thanks for the info though, lots of things I didn't know I should care about and a few great websites pitching speaker cream to laugh at.

  21. MJI Silver badge

    I wanted Laserdisc

    But could never afford it, I needed a new film format, but luckily for me DVD came along. I still remember those darks days sadly between the fall of Beta and the start of DVD

  22. JeffyPoooh Silver badge
    Pint

    'Daddy, what's a Blu-ray disc?'

    It's like a DVD, except it typically will not play in Daddy's laptop due to the extreme DRM crap. Yes little child, Daddy has a Blu-ray drive in the laptop.

    Due to this DRM Gone Wild issue, Daddy has pretty much given up buying Blu-ray discs. Daddy just wants to watch the damn movie on his damn laptop. Cheap and Cheerful DVD's get this job done. Blu-rays not so much.

  23. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    TV show 'How It's Made'...

    Making LPs.

    Cutting the Master.

    Step 1: Insert the CD.

    ...

    It's all marketing BS for morons.

    1. Charles 9 Silver badge

      Re: TV show 'How It's Made'...

      Hmm? I don't see CD's mentioned on this clip.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAdxbEQBSAw

      Where was it mentioned?

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