back to article Business users force Microsoft to back off Windows 10 PC kill plan

Microsoft has backed down on its plan to hustle owners of certain PCs to Windows 10 by crimping support options. Redmond revealed the plan last January, when it decreed that PCs running 6th-generation Core i5 or Core i7 CPUs and Windows 7 would only get limited security and stability support until mid-2017. By March it backed …

  1. Kurt Meyer

    Sweet

    There's an old saying, "money talks, and bullshit walks."

    The door's over there, Satya.

  2. Captain DaFt

    'Fraid not

    "Surely someone senior inside Microsoft will be principled enough to ask if all the ill-will its nagging efforts have generated are really worth it?"

    More likely, someone in marketing is saying, "If only we'd pushed Harder, we'd have hit that billion mark!"

    "If it don't fit, use a bigger hammer.", is the marketeer's credo.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: 'Fraid not

      More likely, someone in marketing is saying, "If only we'd pushed Harder, we'd have hit that billion mark!"

      Indeed. And now they've further fragmented their user base because of the unpopularity of W10. Having failed to understand that most users want a W7 style UI and launcher, they've resolutely pushed on with the fugliness of W8, retrenched a tiny and unsatisfactory degree for W10 (so any sane user still needs a third party shell launcher add on), the overall feel is a dogs dinner, and then they overlay that with a ground zero strike on user privacy. So in addition to the user base fragmentation, they STILL have billions of man hours of work to make W10.2 coherent and attractive for users. Hey boys and girls, THAT'S why W10 take up has been poor: The PRODUCT IS CRAP. And that's because you intentionally made it crap. You didn't have to, but you worked at it, and boy did you succeed.

      My forecast is that despite the obvious success they could have from fixing the W10 defects, they won't do that. This is death by a thousand cuts. Just as Nokia Phones died of asphyxiation up their own behind (before Elop arrived), Microsoft are emulating that navel-gazing-from-the-inside strategy, as the influential employees destroy long term value whilst pursuing their own personal interests and ignoring long term investor interests, or what customers want. Back in 1995 that worked for lack of competition. Post 2010 it is an inelegant form of corporate suicide.

      1. VinceH Silver badge

        Re: 'Fraid not

        "This is death by a thousand cuts."

        The thing with that, though, is that it's supposed to be a punishment or torture - inflicted on you by someone else.

        Yet Microsoft are doing it to themselves.

        1. cambsukguy

          Re: 'Fraid not

          If the share price is what keeps Satya in his job then he is safe for a while yet:

          25 -> 58, 5yrs (APPL 53 -> 108)

          46 -> 58, 1yr, on Aug 25th that might have read 41 -> 58, (AAPL, 115 -> 108)

          53 -> 58, 1 month, 10%, (AAPL, 97 -> 108, also 10%)

          Obviously volatile but showing movement in the right direction for shareholders. And more consistently than another major tech outfit.

          1. DougS Silver badge

            Re: 'Fraid not

            He hasn't been CEO for five years, so using the five year stock price gain is kind of silly. If all he does is stop Microsoft from wasting billions on failed acquisitions like Nokia and Acquantive, he'll be a big improvement over Ballmer even if the consumer Windows business starts sagging due to the overall PC sales slump.

            The enterprise customers are already on subscription, and pay whether or not they upgrade to 10, so I really don't know why Microsoft feels they need to hurry them off older versions. The idea that customers buying Skylake PCs (i.e. just about any sold these days) would have only a year to upgrade them to 10 is ludicrous. Whoever came up with that plan has no idea how large enterprises manage their PC upgrades. Looking at how long it took them to get off XP should have been all the education they needed to see that this idea would never fly.

            1. JLV Silver badge
              Trollface

              Re: 'Fraid not

              > stop Microsoft from wasting billions on failed acquisitions like Nokia and Acquantive

              LinkedIn? I hear chairs are getting nervous again and local dry cleaners are gearing up their armpit sweat cleaning machinery.

              1. DougS Silver badge

                Linkedin

                Oh man, totally forgot about that. Yeah, any hope their shareholders had that he wouldn't make stupid acquisitions went out the window when he did that. I expect in a year or two when they take a huge writeoff against the Linkedin acquisition the stock market won't be kind....

                1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

                  Re: Linkedin

                  "Yeah, any hope their shareholders had that he wouldn't make stupid acquisitions went out the window when he did that."

                  It seems to be a perfect fit with all the "telemetry".

            2. Richard Plinston Silver badge

              Re: 'Fraid not

              > stop Microsoft from wasting billions on failed acquisitions like Nokia and Acquantive

              Microsoft have, for decades, bought companies for the sole reason of killing them. They may have done that with Nokia because they would not resign the agreement to keep with Windows Phone and already brought out Nokia-X (Android). Better a dead WP than a live Android from Nokia.

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: 'Fraid not

            Fact is, Microsoft has a strategy and it is working. It matters little whether they outstrip Andoid in number of installed devices before 2017 or whenever.

            What does matter is that almost every (or as many as possible) of the enterprise and home users stay on products like Windows and Office. This helps to lock in future and current demand for more interesting SaaS offerings further down. Meanwhile, everything stays nicely linked(in)TM with the basic tools (Windows OS and Office).

            Gently shepherding everyone onto cloud-based, mobile solutions will continue to nurture market OS and SaaS dominance. When companies can choose between a platform that works on legacy hardware, can host *nix VMs, run on new shiny-shiny or cheap droidware they'll take the easy way out, just as they have always done. The other option is to manage multiple, forked platforms with all associated headaches. Most people prefer the easy way and will continue to pay for it.

            So their stock price will keep going up or stay stable. Unlike some of his predecessors, Nadella actually has some vision. The mega ad-slingers and shiny-shiny sellers may not have any other vision than to make lots of money, until people find alternatives.

            At the risk of sounding like a complete Redmond fanboi, I think MS could do very well in this brave new, world. If they could build a decent browser, smartphone OS and search engine, resistance would be almost futile.

            Your downvotes are of course always welcome.....

            1. DougS Silver badge

              Microsoft going cloud

              Well that's fine for Office I suppose, but how does that support the Windows OS when you can access Offcie365 from a browser running on any OS? It also reduces lock in as once people are used to using Cloud services, compatible but cheaper alternatives become better choices for some.

              Regardless of the success of Microsoft's cloud strategy, the idea that Linkedin is worth even remotely close to what they paid is ludicrous. They will be writing off an eleven digit sum within the next couple years, mark my words.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: 'Fraid not

          For a while now they've been providing one extremely useful thing-- a near-perfect study of the true meaning of "lost the plot".

      2. cd / && rm -rf *
        Thumb Up

        Re: 'Fraid not

        fugliness

        Upvoted just for that.

    2. Richard Jones 1
      FAIL

      Re: 'Fraid not (And the Push Harder Theorem)

      Reminds me of that fool Juncker, "what people need is more EU not a better run one", look how well that worked with the UK referendum. When will the bloated-ego ego-maniacs realise, those outside of their brain sphere have their own thoughts, needs, agendas and desires. Make them unhappy enough and they really, I mean really want to leave not keep taking the juice.

      With Windows attitude to printers, (every new software load messes up half of mine) starting to make the quill pen look like the wave of the future, leaving certainly cannot be worse. In contrast, the old XP machine has not been used for months at a time, but once woken up it can still print like normal.

    3. BobChip
      Holmes

      Re: 'Fraid not

      Could it just be this simple? Potential users have recognised Windows for the malware it is, and are (quite rightly) refusing to use it. That's all there is to it. MS appear to realise that they are losing the battle to sell Windows, but every move they make seems calculated only to make matters worse. A bigger hammer is pointless if you can't hit the right nail with it.

      For the first time in their history, MS are faced with a marketplace in which there are real, viable alternatives. I'm beginning to wonder if the hole is just too deep to climb out of this time.

  3. Tromos

    Backing down is the first sensible decision for ages.

    Forcing people off Windows 7 is not guaranteed to see them take up 10. Once they have gone elsewhere, I would say very few would ever come back. To permanently lose even a fraction of your customer base is attempted, if not actual, commercial suicide.

    1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: Backing down is the first sensible decision for ages.

      "Forcing people off Windows 7 is not guaranteed to see them take up 10."

      Or, more generally, never give your customer a reason to review the market.

  4. Admiral Grace Hopper

    Meanwhile

    There are large organisations with WinXP still fulfilling their needs on the desktop. They might make the leap to Win10, but that remains to be seen.

    1. HarryBl

      Re: Meanwhile

      There are large organisations with NT4 still fulfilling their needs...

      1. Danny 14 Silver badge

        Re: Meanwhile

        Windows 10 for enterpise. That will be the same windows 10 that has more gpos for chrome that is does for edge. Where not ticking a single gpo will automatically update itself with candycrush and twitter EVEN on wsus updating.

        Not to mention start menu and taskbar defaults are a train wreck even on 1607 build. Roaming profiles that ignore gpos beacuse MS deem their vision of what you need to see should take precidence (but then work for logons AFTER initial profile creation)

        W10 enterprise is a fucking train wreck.

  5. Phil_Evans

    I repeat

    Ape-ing Captain Daft...

    "Surely someone senior inside Microsoft will be principled enough to ask if all the ill-will its nagging efforts have generated are really worth it?"

    You're dealing with Munchkins in Merry old land of Oz. Or the 7th Dimension, or Children of the latter church of wonk. Microsoft bake intention based on spiritualist ritual with little concept of what's going on off-campus. The answer is new Windows....what's the question?

  6. hplasm Silver badge
    Facepalm

    FTFY!

    "“Enterprise customers are moving to Windows 10 faster than any version of Windows …since ME."

    1. Charlie Clark Silver badge

      Re: FTFY!

      Yes, I liked it to. I wonder how they define the metric… IIRC companies did move pretty quickly to Windows: most of the enterprises I know completed this within two years of launch, after giving Vista a wide berth.

      Enterprises are happy with Windows 7 and have around 3 years to plan the non-Windows future.

    2. MrDamage

      Re: FTFY!

      My reading of it is:

      "Enterprise customers are buying Win10 systems by the truckload."*

      *and then rolling out their standard Win7 image onto said systems.

      1. 404 Silver badge

        Re: FTFY!

        Dell sells the fuck out of Windows 10-marked-and-serial Windows 7 Pro (actual) systems - so I'm pretty sure MS's numbers will be off by a long shot because Dell cannot be the only ones doing it.

      2. bombastic bob Silver badge
        Devil

        Re: FTFY!

        "and then rolling out their standard Win7 image onto said systems."

        as long as the 'downUPgrade to 7' option remains...

        but if this article is ANY indication, someone at M-shaft saw the writing on the wall.

        1. Danny 14 Silver badge

          Re: FTFY!

          We buy W10 volume licences. Then promptly utilise downgrade rights.

  7. Uberseehandel

    Windows Beta

    Whilst I generally like Win 10, I am very uncomfortable with its perpetual beta-feel. Together with Office-365 and Azure (Cloud), there is an ongoing sense of flakiness that is extremely unsettling. I'm glad I'm not trying to administer this frickarse[sp].

    1. King Jack
      Facepalm

      Re: Windows Beta

      You generally like being spied upon 24/7? You like malware? I cannot believe you are genuine.

      1. hplasm Silver badge
        Happy

        Re: Windows Beta

        To be fair- he may be using Win10 Enterprise.

        Only spies during office hours...

  8. Jack of Shadows Silver badge

    How many high-end commercial software packages/suites ($K/seat) are certified by the vendor as running on Windows 10 fully supported? The kind where throwing a ton of money on the hardware is a thang. Just wondering.

  9. Allan George Dyer Silver badge
    Paris Hilton

    Did anyone else...

    read the headline and think, "WTF, Microsoft is killing Windows 10 ALREADY!"

    1. VinceH Silver badge

      Re: Did anyone else...

      What's worse, is it reads as though Microsoft want to be shot of Windows 10... but they've been persuaded to keep it by [business] users.

      I thought I'd woken up in some kind of weird parallel universe - but I don't remember being in a group of people including John Rhys-Davis and Kari Wuhrer.

      1. cambsukguy

        Re: Did anyone else...

        Sliders reference, kudos.

  10. Mark 85 Silver badge

    So they're backing down on the Enterprise version while still kicking the "home" users. It's beginning to look like that MS wants all the home users to go use someone else's operating system while getting the money from the Enterprise.

    1. Admiral Grace Hopper

      It's beginning to look like that MS wants all the home users to go use someone else's operating system

      I thought that was the point of Vista? It certainly worked for me.

    2. VinceH Silver badge

      "It's beginning to look like that MS wants all the home users to go use someone else's operating system while getting the money from the Enterprise."

      They could make that easier, then, by not having their OS bundled on most systems sold to end users,

      1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        "They could make that easier, then, by not having their OS bundled on most systems sold to end users"

        I don't know about that. Conversation last evening:

        80-year-old woman (currently owning 2 computers downgraded to W10): "If I buy a new computer how do I get Linux on it?"

        Me; "When you get it, ring me."

        1. VinceH Silver badge
          Pint

          The upvote I've just given you? Please pass it on to the 80 year old woman. You can have this -->

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    These jackasses need to LISTEN to their desktop customers and stop pretending to listen to them.

    If you are going to charge for an OS then you can't get away with treating them as data mining targets. Oh - and the UI is crap. They should give people the option of running a windows 7 aero type UI instead of forcing everyone onto a flugly mess designed to work on phones they can't sell.

    Note to microsoft - this is supposed to be a desktop operating system - not an android data mining phone UI.

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Microsoft start listening to people outside your bubble

    Microsoft need some people outside their over excited bubble, anyone following when this news was released earlier in the year, realised it was a ridiculous proposition in the timeframe they were quoting.

    Linux Mint 18 (as one example) has past a point where the Linux desktop is both easier to install/cheaper to maintain for certain scenarios, but convention for some reason (MS big marketing budgets v zero marketing budget for Linux) keeps everyone using Microsoft.

    The trouble for Microsoft, is that 'convention' gets severely eroded and questioned everytime Microsoft get over excited and start sprouting ridiculous propositions regarding cutting short Windows 7 support on certain platforms, because we know equally that can apply to Windows 10, looking forward. Face it MS, you're not Apple's model (yet) with only 5-6 platforms to support, live with it, stop feeling hard done by having to support a wider install base.

    Microsoft by making things ever more difficult, there are plenty of good alternatives that look more attractive every day.

    1. Bronek Kozicki Silver badge

      Re: Microsoft start listening to people outside your bubble

      It is not just convention. Microsoft has both gamers and business users (like Trevor Pott) by the balls. Yes there is Libre Office, Steam, and I'm very happy for this and wish them well, but it is early days. For Linux to be good alternative for these two markets (not just viable), much more client focused software is needed, for users to choose from. As a gamer (well, not much and only sometimes) I really hope for Vulkan. As a business user ..... well, someone please find me good alternative to Outlook, which works with Exchange just as well.

      1. Adam Jarvis

        Re: Microsoft start listening to people outside your bubble

        Satya Nadella could (I think will) still release MSOffice for Linux, because I can't see MS offering MS SQL Server for Linux, without Office Integration Tools alongside it, this is Key. I also think he likes products to stand on their own two feet. Releasing MSOffice for Linux, would force Windows 10 to become a better product, to survive on its own and crucially be reliant on its own income stream.

        The current Microsoft history sort of shows Windows 10 may have to deal with this (the release of MSOffice for Linux)

        Windows Mobile* has been put through a similar fate, it wasn't the best Phone OS out there (in fairness, not helped in the way it was poorly marketed by MS). It's because both iOS/Android ecosystems made those other mobile OS's what they are, and are all the more powerful for it.

        The thing that held back Android and iOS artficially at the time, was the lack of MSOffice, Windows Mobile was competing (just), but competing artifically, with a 'leg up', so to speak.

        *Windows 10 mobile OS is still been developed though, even though Windows Phone (hardware) is all but dead)

        Nadella just made each product separate entities that needed to survive in the market on their own two feet. Why suppress real potential MSOffice sales on iOS/Android to support an in-house lagging Windows Mobile OS?, if Windows Mobile is really that good (as Satya was probably constantly told), we can sell MSOffice on all three.

        You can see the logic, but Windows Mobile just wasn't in the same league (not helped by Microsoft own mishandling by their Marketing dept)

        Windows 10 Desktop is a much, much stronger entity, but if Microsoft starts to see Linux Desktop in the Enterpise take hold, I don't think he'll (Satya Nadella) think twice about releasing MS Office for Linux, the history of Windows Mobile shows he doesn't get sentimental regards Products, to protect them. If there are opportunites opening elsewhere, he'll take them come what may.

        The real point is, does Linux need MSOffice for it to go 'mainstream', to defy the usual sticking with MS convention on the Enterprise Desktop.

        1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

          Re: Microsoft start listening to people outside your bubble

          "Satya Nadella could (I think will) still release MSOffice for Linux, because I can't see MS offering MS SQL Server for Linux, without Office Integration Tools alongside it"

          If this is the case than he's taking a long time about it. I'm not sure about your SQL Server point. Swivel server on Linux allows him to offer it in Azure instances running Linux and is a matter of bowing to reality but I'd guess he wants all the desktop clients to be on Windows. There's also the little matter of every desktop Linux distro having LibreOffice, or maybe OpenOffice already there as soon as it's installed. There's only a percentage of users who are then going to fork out real money for something with the same functionality.

          1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

            Re: Microsoft start listening to people outside your bubble

            I should have added that if anyone running Linux absolutely has to have MS Office they can simply run the Windows version under Wine.

        2. JLV Silver badge

          Re: Microsoft start listening to people outside your bubble

          Be careful what you wish for if Linux Office is anything like MS Office 2008 on a Mac. Shudder. Manages to have all the warts but different, worse and certainly unfamiliar, UI.

      2. This post has been deleted by its author

      3. Pompous Git Silver badge

        Re: Microsoft start listening to people outside your bubble

        someone please find me good alternative to Outlook, which works with Exchange just as well.

        I don't even need to communicate with Exchange these days, but a decent email (PIM) client is needed. Evolution needs to be uninstalled/reinstalled on a regular basis. Thunderbird doesn't do calendaring.

        1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

          Re: Microsoft start listening to people outside your bubble

          "Thunderbird doesn't do calendaring."

          Thunderbird + Lightning?

          1. Pompous Git Silver badge

            Re: Microsoft start listening to people outside your bubble

            Thunderbird + Lightning?

            Enabling calendaring disabled email. That's why I moved to Evolution.

            1. Danny 14 Silver badge

              Re: Microsoft start listening to people outside your bubble

              Word, Excel and Outlook running native on linux would murder W10 in many offices.

    2. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Linux

      Re: Microsoft start listening to people outside your bubble

      "convention for some reason keeps everyone using Microsoft."

      it's probably LEGACY more than anything else, and a general LACK of interest by software vendors to start making Linux versions. Example, if QuickBooks had a Linux version, businesses would be more likely to use Linux instead of a Win-10-nic box, especially when "everything else" runs fine on Linux and they don't have to get Office 365 subscription etc. (or deal with Win-10-nic).

      Once again, one of my favorite analyses of what happens when a business DUMPS Microsoft, and goes with a Linux solution (from the mid-noughties):

      http://web.archive.org/web/20131203041308/http://news.cnet.com/2008-1082_3-5065859.html

      (Ernie Ball saved about $80k in the first year, nearly paying for the ~$100k "fine" from the aggressive surprise software audit)

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    M$ Lost

    And the winner of the international stare out championships is

  14. Drefsab_UK

    hmm

    on a serious note though I worry about this, my aging old pc q6600 with 4gb of ram can and does run everything apart from the latest games with ease. Office, photoshop, adobe you name it it runs well.

    I am however building a new new pc (i7 6700k, 32gb ram etc) not for any office or buisiness application but purely for gaming. This is where ms have people by the balls, because they wont release DX12 for windows 7. Its also why I think they were pulling this with skylake cpu's. Gamers are the first stream adpoters for new tech, they drive the bleeding edge, if they all start getting windows 10 it lends credibility to the OS. New KabyLake cpus will be locked to windows 10 as well.

    What we really needs to happen is steam to get more momentum behind linux gaming (they have done an amazing job so far) they more users will switch, then as linux starts to become a serious competitor we for desktop os to MS we will see Office getting released on linux, once that happens then the fun would really beging because MS will have to adapt or die on the desktop os side.

    1. Danny 14 Silver badge

      Re: hmm

      Someone once told me. Buy for today not tomorrow. What games require dx12 right now? A lot might change when it is looking like dx12 is mandatory.

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Just like Xbox 180 u-turn M$ folds under pressure...

    But we need more Win-10 lawsuits and more Sheeple from the 350 million side to wake up. But again all M$ have to do is drop forced updates and slurping. How hard can that be? Otherwise the path to Linux is clear...

  16. Dwarf Silver badge

    I wonder when ..

    Microsoft will realise that they are not in control, The businesses with their budgets and priorities are in control, as are the individuals with their PC's (note the word in bold)

  17. Al fazed
    Happy

    End of days - beginning of a new era

    I cannot remember the last time I bought an OS from Microsoft. I think XP came pre installed on a box I bought in a shop in the year 2000. Since then I have found Debian and other Linux's have gained useability while Microsofts products have lost useability. MACs have become more accessible.

    I have a sacrificial cow running Windows 7 pro for Internet use only.

    All my real work is still being done on XP machines without Internet connection, without issue.

    The Windows 7 machine cannot be trusted with anything that might require privacy or security - as I cannot tie it down with MY choice of security software, the same stuff which has kept all of my machines clean for 16 years.

    The only reason I run Windows 7 is because Linux still doesn't run the BBC iPlayer because it is largely dependent upon Flash Player.

    When the UK Govermins introduce TV licensing for catch up TV - which they are planning to do, I shall stop watching BBC altogether and I can then get rid of the Windows 7 machine in favour of a machine running Linux or if I have enough dosh MAC - running Open Office and all the other FREE software.

    Nothing on earth will ever make me buy a Microsoft laden machine.

    In fact everything Microsoft has ever done makes me look further afield for a better experience and value for money and greater security and privacy.

    ALF

    1. Iain Griffiths

      Re: End of days - beginning of a new era

      Have another go with linux cos iplayer seems to work for me

    2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: End of days - beginning of a new era

      "The only reason I run Windows 7 is because Linux still doesn't run the BBC iPlayer because it is largely dependent upon Flash Player."

      https://github.com/get-iplayer/get_iplayer

      I use it with a GUI wrapper written in Lazarus.

    3. Roopee

      Re: End of days - beginning of a new era

      You're wrong about iPlayer on Linux, I regularly watch films and other stuff on iPlayer in Pale Moon on my Mint 17 HTPC.

      PS

      When you 'sacrifice' your sacrificial Win 7 box, can I have the licence please - I have enough for my own PCs but I think they're going to go up in value as supplies dry up while demand increases...

      Mine's the one with a roll of used Win 7 CoAs in the back pocket.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: End of days - beginning of a new era

        As I've mentioned before: as far as the typical user is concerned, Windows is now nothing more than an over-glorified DOSBox, used for running legacy programs.

        You can get by day to day perfectly fine without Windows or any of the other Microsoft products and services. There is also an increasingly drastic shift towards mobile - and Microsoft is STILL irrelevant in mobile. All Microsoft has is an entrenched institutional desktop monopoly and oodles of cash propping up its own empire.

        Gone are the dark days when you have to use a Microsoft product/service, or else. For example, in the dark age of the Internet following the implosion of Netscape Navigator, many websites did not render properly unless you viewed them with Internet Explorer.

        1. Danny 14 Silver badge

          Re: End of days - beginning of a new era

          Works fine on my android box.

  18. DougS Silver badge

    Looks like they haven't completely backed down

    Reading the linked blog entry, they say they will support Kaby Lake and future CPUs on Windows 10 ONLY. So if you (or a big enterprise) buys a PC next year it will NOT be supported on Windows 7.

    I expect the Reg to run another article next year when Microsoft climbs down on this. Enterprise customers are not going to rush to deploy Windows 10 just so they can buy Kaby Lake PCs, nor are they going to tell Dell and HP "we want previous generation CPUs". They will buy Kaby Lake PCs, and tell Microsoft "you WILL support this, or we WILL start seriously looking at how many PCs we could switch to Linux, and/or expanding the number of Macs we have"

    1. Preston Munchensonton

      Re: Looks like they haven't completely backed down

      It's even worse that you note.

      On Thursday US time it gave up and extended full support until the operating systems' planned end of life.

      The extension isn't for full support, but for critical updates and, even then, only if Microsoft thinks that's it's feasible to implement for Windows 7 or Windows 8.x.

    2. Danny 14 Silver badge

      Re: Looks like they haven't completely backed down

      Then dont buy kaby lake if you want w7. Then watch pc manufacturers force MS.

  19. moiety

    I honestly don't care what Microsoft do now. You can't unscrew the pooch. Even if they tried, they've lost all credibility so I -for one- wouldn't believe them.

  20. quxinot

    What's sad is that it really wouldn't take much to fix things.

    Allow the updates to be individually managed, instead of all or nothing.

    Make the interface have a single theme, instead of half the stuff in one format and half in another.

    Allow disabling/uninstalling of crap like Cuntana.

    Allow telemetry to be disabled.

    Leave settings and programs intact when updates are run.

    Allow ads to be turned off in the start menu.

    Ok, it /is/ a bit of a list. Fixing it wouldn't be hard, and would let them not only gain massive market share quickly, but sell the OS for a profit instead of bludgeoning the recalcitrant world over the head with it.

    And yet, they still aren't going to do this. Because MS has decided that they want to be a Google or Facebook, so they're cheerfully throwing their core business out the window and chasing after income models that they know absolutely nothing about. Stupid bastards.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      And yet, they still aren't going to do this. Because MS has decided that they want to be a Google or Facebook, so they're cheerfully throwing their core business out the window and chasing after income models that they know absolutely nothing about. Stupid bastards.

      And Microsoft aren't even innovators at fucking over their core business. IBM patented that process years ago.

    2. jelabarre59 Silver badge

      Allow the updates to be individually managed, instead of all or nothing.

      Yeah, Linux has this clever thing known as "package management". It has nice, reasonably-sized files, you can pin versions if needed, some package managers can handle multiple mirrors at once, or can do delta-downloads rather than full packages, etc. Nice and modular rather than massive chunks of bloat. MS hasn't been ashamed to steal, um excuse me, I meant "adapt" smarter ideas from elsewhere in the past.

    3. ma1010 Silver badge
      Megaphone

      Right on!

      You are so very, very right. MS could fix this easily. And make people actually WANT their OS. And even be willing to pay good $, either in the form of a "purchase" as in the past or an annual fee. At least I would likely be willing.

      However, that's not what they've done, so I've abandoned Windows for Linux. As many, many others have.

      MS, are you listening at all? There's still time to fix this. I think. But you'd better hurry, or it WILL be too late.

    4. cd / && rm -rf *
      Devil

      Cuntana

      Upvoted for that. :)

    5. Danny 14 Silver badge

      All valid points OP. But remember this is article is about enterprise. I agree you should be able to do this on pro or home but you can with GPOs in enterprise. Granted it takes far too much digging and too many things are enabled by default.

  21. quxinot

    "The extension isn't for full support, but for critical updates and, even then, only if Microsoft thinks that's it's feasible to implement for Windows 7 or Windows 8.x."

    Honestly? That sounds lovely.

    I'd love the ability to turn my auto-updates on and only recieve the most important security stuff, and not have to individually check each update to ensure it's not idiot bullshit. I've gotten to where I'd much rather take an unpatched OS against the greater Internet than against the MS update servers. The Internet has done significantly less damage to systems that I've had to work with than the MS patches have done. At least in the past year or so, when the GWX garbage started.

  22. J J Carter Silver badge
    Windows

    As Mr Churchill nearly said

    MSFT will do the right thing when all other options have been exhausted

    1. Pompous Git Silver badge

      Re: As Mr Churchill nearly said

      @ JJCarter

      Thanks for the opportunity to upvote you for a change ;-)

  23. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    What will it take to get people to switch to Linux?

    And don't tell me that Linux isn't putting enough effort into making the OS more accessible to the masses. It's fuckin' FOSS; you can download it any time, any way you want, never once having to open your wallet or speak to a human being. And it supports more hardware than Windows does.

    We all know Microsoft pays its acolytes and partners to spread FUD on Linux, that's the only way they can maintain their position in the marketplace. Every day we laugh off the news of bugs, security breaches, and anti-competitive behavior coming from Redmond, treating Windows like the second-rate product it is, but at the same time we tell Linux developers that clearly their product ISN'T SUPERIOR ENOUGH to make a dent in the market.

    Every failed Windows 10 install/upgrade is an opportunity to install Linux, and to teach friends and family about the benefits of FOSS/FLOSS. Don't waste it on rolling back to Windows 7.

    1. Pompous Git Silver badge

      Re: What will it take to get people to switch to Linux?

      at the same time we tell Linux developers that clearly their product ISN'T SUPERIOR ENOUGH to make a dent in the market.

      You're missing the point. Nothing wrong with Linux OS, rather the contrary. What isn't up to snuff are the applications. I use InDesign from time to time. Linux has Scribus that is almost as good as MS Publisher which the last time I had the misfortune to run it, was a piece of shit.

    2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: What will it take to get people to switch to Linux?

      "Every failed Windows 10 install/upgrade is an opportunity to install Linux, and to teach friends and family about the benefits of FOSS/FLOSS."

      Even on 7 every ransomware attack is a similar opportunity.

      1. WatAWorld

        Re: What will it take to get people to switch to Linux?

        It is a reflection on the state of Linux and the public image of Linux that it can't give away for free a commodity that normally costs $100.

        I do not doubt that if Linux took over consumer desktops that we'd find it had a many vulnerabilities as Windows 95. That is why specifically targeted organizations (defense establishments, banks, and high tech) generally using Windows when they can -- most of the holes have been discovered because Windows has been checked over far more thoroughly than MacOS or Linux.

        The 'security by obscurity' that comes from using a less common product evaporates when you're a special target for which organizations will develop custom code.

        But if you disagree, and you might well be right, then it points even more strongly to the Linux teams' images and marketing skills. Torvalds should completely step back from being the public face of Linux.

        Personally I think it is a mix of Linux having far more holes than Linux fanbois think and Torvalds corporately unacceptable image.

        1. Updraft102 Silver badge

          Re: What will it take to get people to switch to Linux?

          Windows has been checked over far more thoroughly?

          So each of their customers can have the source code for everything to perform this check?

        2. Ropewash

          Re: What will it take to get people to switch to Linux?

          "Torvalds corporately unacceptable image"

          The image of an intelligent, technically adept person who cares deeply about his product quality. Yes, I can see where that wouldn't fly with most corporate types.

          Personally I'll always take quality work done by an asshole over middling work done by a caring and concerned individual. I want to use things, not cuddle with their creators.

          To address the issue of Linux applications not being up to snuff, well that's kinda tied to the way Linux software gets written isn't it? The people who really want certain features have to stump up and either write or pay for such things to be written, just sitting around saying "Linux needs X before I'll use it." doesn't do much because no-one else cares if you use it or if you're ever going to.

          They care that it works for them and they go to some effort to make sure it does.

          I can't code worth a damn, but I can test and report and I can donate. I can also write emails trying to persuade someone with skill why they might care about a certain feature (okay, usually not with any real effect, but asking politely doesn't hurt anyone) Oddly enough almost all the features I have wanted have turned up eventually, it just took time for someone who had the same goals as me but better skills to turn up.

          1. Pompous Git Silver badge

            Re: What will it take to get people to switch to Linux?

            I can test and report and I can donate. I can also write emails trying to persuade someone with skill why they might care about a certain feature (okay, usually not with any real effect, but asking politely doesn't hurt anyone) Oddly enough almost all the features I have wanted have turned up eventually, it just took time for someone who had the same goals as me but better skills to turn up.

            Which is why I was a beta tester for Adobe FrameMaker on Linux. It never went beyond beta and the beta timed out in December 2000. Adobe advised us that we would need to purchase FrameMaker for Windows or Mac if we wanted to use the documents we had created after that date,

            Of course you are correct that I could write my own DTP software for Linux, or just wait. In either case that sounds like decades of waiting.

            Microsoft are driving us away from Windows and the Linuxen drive us away from Linux when they tell us if we want the software to write it ourselves. It doesn't seem to occur to them that programming skills are dissimilar to DTP skills, though both require a considerable investment in time. I suspect my next computer will be a Mac.

            1. Ropewash

              Re: What will it take to get people to switch to Linux?

              "Of course you are correct that I could write my own DTP software for Linux, or just wait. In either case that sounds like decades of waiting."

              Yeah, some thing HAVE taken decades to show up. Some DO require corporate backing and sometimes there aren't enough voices to make a corporation listen. Some companies will just flat-out never code for Linux due to personal bias.

              To go a bit more specific to myself, the Linux CAD/CAM world will probably never see a copy of Mastercam, or Solidworks, or actually any of the major applications. There's no real interest on the Linux side to re-create a set of programs of this size and scope, and very little incentive for the software companies to write for Linux. It's just not going to happen.

              I cannot change that and so Windows is still a valuable tool.

              Sure, some things can run under Wine, some flakey others well. It's not a solution most folks are looking for though. Maybe a few more decades will change that too, who knows? I wasn't denying that there's some things that aren't resolved, just stating there's many things that are.

        3. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

          Re: What will it take to get people to switch to Linux?

          "The 'security by obscurity' that comes from using a less common product "

          This 'security by obscurity' thing. Are you trying to apply it to Linux, BSD or any other open source product? Because you can download and read the whole of the source code. Every last character of it. What's obscure about that?

        4. Mike 137

          Re: What will it take to get people to switch to Linux?

          "using Windows when they can -- most of the holes have been discovered" - if that's the case why do we still have monthly Update Tuesdays? Some of the holes have been discovered, but it's unreasonable to assume "most" as we just can't tell how many more there are. There's never been an OS or a major application from any vendor that has ceased to need patching before it was superseded by a "new version".

  24. Updraft102 Silver badge

    Of course

    “Enterprise customers are moving to Windows 10 faster than any version of Windows..."

    Of course they are. What other version of Windows would they be moving to right now? It would be difficult or impossible to procure Win 7 or 8 licenses in the quantities needed for enterprise, given that MS is no longer issuing them. If there is any movement toward a given Windows version, it's going to be 10.

    1. Danny 14 Silver badge

      Re: Of course

      We buy w10 volume licenses (SA) then downgrade to 8.1 we downgraded vista to XP.

  25. WatAWorld

    The press release seems to say that OEMs have backed down. They're paying for it.

    So I followed the link you gave us

    https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/11675/windows-7-windows-8-1-skylake-systems-supported

    and I see a different story than the article gives:

    "For each of the supported systems listed on the OEM pages, the OEM has committed to additional testing, regular validation of Windows Updates, and publishing drivers and firmware for Windows 10 on Windows Update which will help unlock the security and power management benefits of Windows 10 once the systems are upgraded."

    That is, the OEMs have backed down. They're paying for special support by writing the drivers and doing the necessary testing. That is how I read what the press release says.

    But oh no, the hardware types have got to bash MS.

    As I explained to the MS bashing hardware types, regardless of what hardware sales executives like to say, it is not MS's business to sell computers.

    'Gosh' knows, if your customers decided en mass that preferred (or at least were prepared to tolerate) Linux you'd en mass ditch MS and install Linux.

    Any failure to sell hardware is hardware vendors fault. Especially since hardware vendors have their choice of multiple operating system vendors.

    PC and hardware isn't selling because hardware is not providing new useful features that make old hardware obsolete. A smaller desktop computer does not mean the desk itself can be any smaller. And in a typical office switching from florescent to LED lighting will save much more energy at much less cost than going from a Core i3-nnn to a Core i3-5nnn.

    Hardware vendors will shortly find their laptop and phone sales declining for the same reason, although not declining as much because portable stuff is much more likely to physically break.

  26. Asok Asus

    just a "few systems". Yeah, right.

    "we recognize that, in some instances, customers have a few systems that require longer deployment timeframes.”

    Yeah, just a "few systems", right Microsoft, say like maybe a couple of dozen? Which is why you graciously agreed to support W7 & W8 on modern processors for several more years, you know, because of just a "few systems"?

    bullshit. The PC OEMs MADE you do this because their enterprise, government, and SMB customers told them that they were going to stop buying hundreds of millions of PCs if they couldn't continue to buy W7 & W8, because the enterprise and SMB are simply not going to operate their trillions of dollars of operations with a cell-phone operating system optimized for cell-phone apps, cell-phone apps that don't even exist in the Windows world and never will anyway.

  27. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Microsoft... so desperate to the very end

    It's as if there's some urgent, hidden agenda to get as many folks on Win 10 as it can within a short period of time. I doubt it's just for OS adoption rate bragging rights.

  28. Steve Hersey

    Story thumbnail pic is from Exploding Kittens; they OK with that?

    I see that the thumbnail image on the link to this story is the same as the artwork on the Exploding Kittens rulebook (see also https://twitter.com/Efferve8cience/status/761992085281050624). Are they OK with this use of their artwork?

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