back to article Facebook ‘glitch’ that deleted the Philando Castile shooting vid: It was the police – sources

The deadly shooting of 32-year-old Philando Castile by a cop during a routine traffic stop in Minnesota on Wednesday just got murkier. Multiple sources have told The Register that police removed video footage of Castile's death from Facebook, potentially tampering with evidence. Castile, his girlfriend Diamond Reynolds, and …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Guns don't kill people....

    ...US cops do.

    Offer only applies to black males.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Guns don't kill people....

      In the UK they prefer Brazilian Plumbers.

      1. Zot

        Re: Guns don't kill people....

        *Electricians

      2. JohnG

        Re: Guns don't kill people....

        "In the UK they prefer Brazilian Plumbers."

        In the UK, one Brazilian electrician was shot dead by police in 2005. The annual toll of people shot by police in the USA is quite different:

        https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings/

    2. This post has been deleted by its author

      1. Mark 85 Silver badge

        Re: Guns don't kill people....

        Reports are they're looking for two black suspects. This may be the beginnings of some very bad times. Reading the media stories and the comments on the articles makes me wonder where the hatred is coming from. Something more polarizing in the US than any of us understand.

        I don't think I'm paranoid but there's just too many senseless killings from the cop side and the civilian side. The cops covering their tracks (if proven) seems to point to something other than coincidence.

        1. This post has been deleted by its author

          1. Triggerfish

            Re: Guns don't kill people....

            I think I'll just leave this link from Not the Nine O'clock News here.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BO8EpfyCG2Y

            1. Jedit

              "I think I'll just leave this link from Not the Nine O'clock News here."

              I can't watch that at work, but I'm guessing it's Constable Savage?

              It's shocking how relevant a topical news comedy show remains 35 to 40 years later, especially with respect to race issues. The "Race and Responsibility" sketch could be any Tory in 2015, the budget cutting taxes on the rich while putting huge duties on wheelchairs, white sticks and diarrhoea medicine could have come straight from the lips of George Osborne. Our government has become indistinguishable from parody, except parody might be more believable.

              1. This post has been deleted by a moderator

                1. Spanners Silver badge
                  Boffin

                  Re: "I think I'll just leave this link from Not the Nine O'clock News here." @Jedit

                  PS I will say I don't think it's just institutionalised racism causing these problems.

                  Sometimes it is just total ars^&*!es that cause the problems. If they didn't discriminate against "thick lips and curly hair", they would find someone else to be unpleasant towards. Perhaps they might discriminate against people of Irish ancestry, they might want to discriminate against plebs who didn't go to the right sort of school or perhaps they like Ginger jokes.

                  Not behaving in that sort of way is not "political correctness". It is human decency, or perhaps just good manners.

                2. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: "I think I'll just leave this link from Not the Nine O'clock News here." @Jedit

                  It's really sad and disgusting that some people will find any excuse to throw in racial slurs whenever possible. Just because someone else said it doesn't mean its right to be repeated at every opportunity you feel fit. Racism by proxy is still racism. It should not be tolerated in any form. Even if you don't understand the reason why its offensive, it doesn't mean its not.

              2. Stevie Silver badge

                Re: "I think I'll just leave this link from Not the Nine O'clock News here."

                "Our government has become indistinguishable from parody"

                *Looks gluimly at current presidential candidate field and the records of the Do Nothing Congress and Do Nothing Senate*

                Tell me about it.

            2. rnorman345

              Re: Guns don't kill people....

              Thanks for that - big smile

          2. IsJustabloke
            Facepalm

            Re: Guns don't kill people....

            @AC

            ummmm... let me get this straight... you think "Brexit" is causing race riots in Dallas ?

            Let's hope you don't have a gun because you're clearly pissed! (No not angry, drunk)

          3. Keith Glass
            Unhappy

            Re: Guns don't kill people....

            Actually, partisan acrimony in the US hasn't been at this level since circa 1859-1860.

            You may recall what followed, from history.

            Indeed, this could be the start of some very bad times.

        2. chivo243 Silver badge
          Holmes

          Re: Guns don't kill people....

          @Mark 85

          I don't like REM too much but I have to quote them and say:

          "It's the end of the world as we know it..." but I don't feel so fine ;-{

          I get the feeling that tolerance is at an all time low and sinking.

          "The cops covering their tracks (if proven) seems to point to something other than coincidence."

          Just google "Chicago police code of silence" It's not just Chicago though...

          1. Sir Runcible Spoon Silver badge
            Big Brother

            Re: Guns don't kill people....

            "I don't like REM too much but I have to quote them and say:"

            -If you tolerate this, then your children will be next.

            1. slinkywizard

              Re: Guns don't kill people....

              Except that was Manic Street Preachers, not REM...

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: Guns don't kill people....

                To keep the bands coming

                Refer youse to The Clash "know your rights" . . .https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lfInFVPkQs

                Quote" You have the right not to be killed, unless it is by a police-man or an aristocrat. . ."

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: Guns don't kill people....

                  "The revolution will not be televised.

                  There will be no pictures of pigs shooting down brothers on the instant replay"

                  - Gil Scott Heron

          2. Triggerfish

            Re: Guns don't kill people....

            Would that be chicago, home of the infamous Homan Square civilian rendition site?

            https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/oct/19/homan-square-chicago-police-disappeared-thousands

          3. Fatman Silver badge

            Re: Guns don't kill people....

            <quote>Just google "Chicago police code of silence" It's not just Chicago though...</quote>

            I lived in Chicago during the 1960's, and I still remember those PIGS well.

          4. Lotaresco

            Re: Guns don't kill people....

            "Just google "Chicago police code of silence" It's not just Chicago though..."

            I quoted this in response to other posts about policing in the 21st Century.

            FAY: The British police force used to be run by men of integrity.

            INSPECTOR TRUSCOTT: That is a mistake which has been rectified.

            Joe Orton, Loot

        3. Johan Bastiaansen

          Re: Guns don't kill people....

          Civil war is all fun and games, until the enemy starts to shoot back.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Guns don't kill people....

        Dallas...

        Snipers...

        Already multiple arrest stories...

        Dalas and an arrested "sniper": what on earth could go wrong?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Guns don't kill people....

          At some point when is someone going to say "How can this happen in Obama's America"?

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      SUDO

      >$ SUDO delete embarrassing video

      WARNING: Improper use of the sudo command could lead to data loss

      or the deletion of important system files. Please double-check your

      typing when using sudo. Type "man sudo" for more information.

      To proceed, enter your password, or type Ctrl-C to abort.

      >Password: *****

      POLICE is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported, or not. . .

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Guns don't kill people....

      Sorry but guns DO kill people! The answer America is to ban guns – all guns BUT especially hand guns! It will take several generations to remove them from your society – in fact you never will completely BUT unless you start NOW with a NO GUNS law you will NEVER achieve even that level of banning that you can. It is ridiculous that the NRA claim the right to bear arms from a document written at a time when muzzle loading flintlocks were de rigeur and were necessary to produce food for the table and, maybe, defend against the British. The NRA holds a lot of responsibility for these shootings yet they continue to spout their silly claim. It is simple – if you did not have guns – then you would not need a gun to defend yourself, would you?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Guns don't kill people....

        You do realise that you're asking the biggest exporter of materiel to dictatorships, rebels, freedom fighters, death squads, and, eventually, terrorists, in the entire world to give up its love of weapons?

      2. UncleZoot

        Re: Guns don't kill people....

        Over your cold dead body sir.

        The first time I went to London, it was different to see that the Bobbies weren't armed. That was back in the 1980's. Fast forward 30 years and a portion of the Bobbies are now armed and the hordes from North Africa have descended on the UK to suck the benefits of your country.

        What's going to happen when the benefits run out? Healthcare isn't free, Council Houses aren't free, neither is education. Someone has to pay.

        Inner cities are run by gangs protecting drug turf. Where years back, you had a fist fight. Then it was being jumped by a group with knives, now it's thugs proving how tough they are with guns.

        1. Alan Brown Silver badge

          Re: Guns don't kill people....

          "Inner cities are run by gangs protecting drug turf."

          It's not about the drugs, it's about the profits.

          There are better ways of torpedoing the profitmaking than trying to go in with guns blazing, or to arrest everyone involved.

      3. fishbone

        Re: Guns don't kill people....

        Take your meds today, that may help with your confusion

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Guns don't kill people....

      Not true, US cops have killed plenty of white people for no-reason, it just isn't deemed news worthy since they don't have a BLM ready to march and riot at the drop of a hat.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Wow

    Well it looks like more than the shooter will be going to jail now. This one they can't sweep under the rug. Even on the right wing radio today I heard them try to defend Baton Rouge but Minnesota even they were like there is no defense.

    1. Pascal Monett Silver badge

      Re: Wow

      "This one they can't sweep under the rug"

      Watch them try.

      In this, it must be said that social apps have finally provided the public with the way to efficiently counter official behavior that is not in line with what is expected from a police officer. Facebook and Twitter have granted us this power, and that is a Good Thing (tm). Thanks to these apps, the Police are now effectively accountable before the law, because there is no way that anyone will forget that those videos exist, thus there is no way a judge can ignore them.

      That is what is going to put law enforcement back under control. And it is the right solution : the Law has been voted by The People, so The People have the right to control the application of the Law. Rodney King demonstrated that what was needed was individual means of recording police action. In his time, it was rare, expensive, and you had to hand over the film to a newspaper.

      Today, it's so cheap everyone has a camera phone, and anyone can have a profile on a social app that allows for video uploading. The Public must start hunting down bad police behavior and the Law must be changed to ensure that no cop can confiscate evidence, legally that is.

      It's a shame that yet another innocent victim needs to die, but make his death worth something. Get the Law to recognize citizen surveillance of the Police, and it will mean something.

      1. Martin Maloney
        Holmes

        Re: Wow

        "...The Public must start hunting down bad police behavior and the Law must be changed to ensure that no cop can confiscate evidence, legally that is."

        The first step is to stop using the expression "confiscate evidence." When a person with a gun orders you to surrender your private property, the correct legal term is "armed robbery."

        1. solo

          Re: Social Apps

          Agreed that social apps seems more important than carrying guns for your safety. But I'd add that only having FB and Twitter will limit the benefits. We need at least a dozen of successful apps with not so easy navigation for policemen.

          1. Alan Brown Silver badge

            Re: Social Apps

            There are a number of apps that livestream upload video. It's kind of hard to delete something when it's already in the cloud.

      2. chivo243 Silver badge

        Re: Wow

        @Pascal Monett

        The "story" that happened before the cameras were recording will be what changes the verdict. I've already seen that spin starting on the Baton Rouge story... What happened before the cameras rolled?

      3. brainbone

        Re: Wow

        "Watch them try"

        I'm sure you'll eventually hear: We didn't tamper with evidence, we accidentally deleted the video while reviewing evidence. The interwebs are hard, don'tchaknow.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    One of the many reasons

    Is Obama allowing the Police to become a militarized private army that shoots first asks questions later knowing that the overwhelming firepower is on its side. Granted, it was Shrub who started it, but Obama not only did not stop it, he expanded the grants program for police departments to purchase military equipment and most importantly get USA military training. One thing the world knows about the latter is that it is trigger happy to the ultimate extreme so the results of subjecting police to it are not surprising.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: One of the many reasons

      Guess you are taking the zeitgeist angle because I am pretty sure the vast majority of these police shootings have been with standard issue pistols many of which probably predate our Iraqi misadventure.

    2. phuzz Silver badge

      Re: One of the many reasons

      I'm pretty sure the biggest difference is not how the police are armed, it's that most witnesses carry a mobile phone that can record video with them now.

      People have been getting shot by the US police for a long time, but now there's video of it happening so that's it's not just the word of a member of the public verses that of a cop.

    3. Naughtyhorse

      Re: militarized private army

      shirley not a well regulated militia?

      but the founding fathers.......

      1. Midnight

        Re: militarized private army

        "They'll regulate my militia well when they pry it from my cold, dead hands."

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Helter Skelter ?

  5. bexley

    disturbing

    They all just had to sit still at gunpoint in the car and let the man bleed out, nobody rendered any help to the victim.

    The lady seemed pretty calm too. Shame the lead up to the event was not filmed so we dont really know what happened although you have to assume that the cop car had a camera filming it all.

    Sad times, not going to get any better with a large number of cops being shot in Dallas, the cops are not exactly going to be less twitchy after that.

    1. James 51 Silver badge
      Unhappy

      Re: disturbing

      The calm has been explained in multiple articles as a well known survival mechanism. When the immediate danger has passed and her daughter is being cared for by someone else, that is probably when it will hit her.

      I was going to say that you'd hope the police would understand that once it's on facebook odds are that it has been duplicated for 'backup' purposes and is recoverable. Just deleting it from the profile is not enough but I am guessing they weren't thinking clearly. Tampering with evidence, they really do have no where left to run.

      1. Triggerfish

        Re: disturbing

        If it's the video I'm thinking of at some point she gets in the cop car and starts freaking a bit, her daughter starts to comfort her. Figure it's shock or something, plenty of times I have been calm and level headed when stuffs happening and get shakes after.

        1. werdsmith Silver badge

          Re: disturbing

          The cop was not calm. Seemed to be completely in a panic.

          At the moment the victim seemed to pass away the the cop screamed "FUCK!"...... "I told him not to di it!" And you could still hear him screaming expletives through the rest of the video.

          I got the impression that he knew he had screwed up.

          I feel like saying that he seemed completely unprofessional and out of his depth, but I can't because I have no idea of what it is like to be in his shoes.

          But I'd say he'd have a tough time defending killing a man with his partner and her child in the car before he had sight of any gun. (apparently victim had told him he had a licensed concealed weapon before shooting and cop then asked for ID)

          1. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

            Re: disturbing

            If you ask for something and then the person reaches to get that thing, you have to be pretty thick to assume it must be a gun. Oddly the US police seems to be full of these panicking trigger happy basket cases. Unsuitable for police work.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: disturbing

              Nah, not really, all US police are trained by forcibly watching Shane on repeat.

              'You all saw him, he had a gun..'

          2. Tim Jenkins

            Re: disturbing

            "...apparently victim had told him he had a licensed concealed weapon before shooting and cop then asked for ID..."

            I'm wondering if that was the cause right there; person in car announces to officer that 'I have a gun' or something similar (meaning 'I have a legally carried concealed weapon')*, while reaching for permit/licence, but officer hears the one word 'gun', sees the movement, draws and fires. Doesn't make the event any less tragic, doesn't mean racism wasn't a factor, but possibly worth considering.

            *There are lots of tips online about dealing with a traffic stop while posessing a legal weapon:

            "The following phrase is commonly recommended “Officer, I want to let you know that I have a concealed carry permit in this state and am currently have one on my person. How would you like me to proceed?” Notice we said ‘have one on my person’. This is very important, as the last thing you want is another officer coming up on the other side of your vehicle and the first thing he hears is GUN."

            http://concealednation.org/2013/07/traffic-stop-while-carrying-concealed-what-to-do-if-youre-pulled-over/

            1. Naughtyhorse

              Re: Bit of a curve ball....

              Open your mind REAL wide...

              this will blow you away....

              it's amazing that none thought of it before...

              what if members of the public didn't have access to firearms?

              yeah, i know it would never work.....

              1. NotWorkAdmin

                Re: Bit of a curve ball....

                The cop was clearly not qualified to be holding a firearm. That being said, an argument could be made as to which gun killed the poor guy if him having a firearm prompted the officer to shoot him.

      2. Michael Strorm

        Tech literacy is superficial; I *wouldn't* expect the police to understand that

        "you'd hope the police would understand that once it's on facebook odds are that it has been duplicated for 'backup' purposes and is recoverable."

        What makes you think they understand that? Stereotyping of the US police aside, I still wouldn't expect them to be notably more competent with technology than anyone else.

        Plenty of people out there think deleting something in Windows literally deletes it beyond recovery. Some people even believe moving something to the recycling bin does the trick(!) It's not that likely they'd understand Facebook's storage setup. I suspect that even if they roped in one of their colleagues who considers himself an "expert" in technology because he knows all about apps and always has the latest smartphone, there's no guarantee that he'd be aware of this.

        (tl;dr version of following rant- Understanding of the superficial aspects of modern digital technology is widespread these days. Understanding of even the most basic aspects of the underpinnings is far less so.)

        I've said it before on several occasions, but don't be fooled by the apparent huge increase in literacy surrounding digital technology in recent years. It's true that the man on the street is comfortable with (and generally obsessed with) computers and digitally-powered gizmos in a way that only geeks were fifteen to twenty years ago. Everyone likes to consider themselves a "geek" now, it's cool.

        I know how to set up and connect to a wireless network; look, it's in this Android menu!

        But while everyone's rushing out to buy the latest boys-toy smartphone and knows all the hot apps to go on it, ask yourself this. How many of them really understand (or even *care* about understanding) even the most fundamental aspects of the underlying technology?

        Case in point. If you asked a random sample of the general population- or even of the boys-toys gadget technophiles- to explain what "digital" *actually* meant at a basic technical level, how many of them do you think could give a proper answer? How many would think it was probably something to do with computers, a synonym for shiny modern technology or for online communications? (#)

        I rest my case. (##)

        (#) Hint; why do you think it effectively *has* become that synonym in general use, such that the Compact Disc- a system whose original selling point *was* that it was ******* digital is contrasted with "digital" (i.e. modern, online) methods of listening to music. Oh, I can buy it in digital form or on DVD? Would that be a ******* analogue DVD then? Let's be honest; most people probably don't *care* about things like this- what digital means, etc.- even if it's more fundamental than some aspect of their shiny, shiny gizmo.

        (##) No more evidence needed, but ask yourself how many people could explain even the most basic structure of how the Internet is set up and the principles of its operation, and how many tech "literate" people really know which numbers to punch into which box, or how to select a WiFi network on their Android phone. Ask them what the difference is between the world wide web and the Internet itself.... etc.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Evidence

    WTF? Courts are considering banning people from collecting evidence of possible criminal wrong doing?

    Astonishingly this sounds like the courts trying to protect their own. If they are trying to protect people's lives then maybe they should start a program to educate the general public about the dangers of viewing videos out of context as in this case where we don't actually see what happened in the lead up to the shooting - we just have running commentary from a distraught young lady who seemed more interested in documenting the wrong doing that trying to convince the cop to save her boyfriend's life. It doesn't make sense without the context

    1. solo

      Re: Evidence

      ..young lady who seemed more interested in documenting the wrong..

      The young lady might have been more interested in keeping calm so that the cop doesn't shoot her or her daughter as well. I can't say for sure as I couldn't gather courage to see the video after reading about it.

      1. Triggerfish

        Re: Evidence

        As mentioned above it's quite normal for some peole to be business like and cool headed in a crisis especially if they have a responsobility (her daughter), many successful survivors of incidents if you read about it, describe being very focuseed while the stress was happening, it's a useful if maybe odd to outside observer reaction.

        1. Sir Runcible Spoon Silver badge
          Unhappy

          Re: Evidence

          In the video, the woman believes her man to have *only* been shot in the arm, as he's still alive (but being very quiet and obviously covered in blood).

          However, during the video he just, slips away, and she does start to freak out a bit at that point, even though she's obviously making a huge effort to stay calm.

          It was heartbreaking to watch to be honest.

      2. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

        Re: Evidence

        "I can't say for sure as I couldn't gather courage to see the video after reading about it."

        The victim has been blurred out. It's relatively safe to watch. Or just listen to if you prefer.

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Amerifrica - Live there to see: The US is at 'War with Itself'

    Its not just Police killing blacks, its the whole gun issue. The Black / White issue is just the sharp end of the reality stick! How long before America gets-all-medieval-on-your-ass and ends up Amerifrica: Kenyans' terror of police death squads:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-36733808

    And why not... The country is run by old-money white dynasties. Blacks get zero breaks with affordable education and healthcare nowhere to be seen. Its all a 101-Hyper-Exercise in Hypocrisy, because hatred for socialism obviously doesn't exclude bailing-out banks & car makers etc.

    Never mind all the other generous grants and lucrative incentives for mega-corps that often get snuck into unrelated bills at the last minute. Welcome to TISA / TTIP / TTP every day in our do-nothing Congress! Have a nice day 'no say' passengers!

    1. Charles 9 Silver badge

      Re: Amerifrica - Live there to see: The US is at 'War with Itself'

      It's not guns. It's culture, or perhaps more properly culture CLASH. I mean, look at Switzerland. They seems to carry enough discipline to keep more guns around and still maintain a low crime rate. Then you have far east countries like Japan that can seemingly trust their government enough to keep things in order such that they can get away with tight gun regulations and not be up in arms over it.

      Is it the independent streak? The innate distrust of government dating from its origins? Something about the US just seems to make things turn ugly when it comes to public-private relationships. And some of it is so ingrained that people would rather go nuclear than cooperate.

      1. solo

        Re: it is not the guns

        Not being from US, I cannot say for sure. But I can feel the fear BOTH the men might have. NRA says everyone should have firearms but they don't let people know that firing the first bullet takes a lot of courage and confusion, especially if you have your loved ones on your side. The lady could also pull up the guns but instead chose to use his phone.

        It is also important to understand the fear that cops feel everyday on road checkpoints where anybody could fire at him asking papers. Yes, it happens. A split-second decision is what we are forcing on him.

        So, there are guns on both the sides, it is just how easy to get away with the killing.

        1. roytrubshaw
          Unhappy

          Re: it is not the guns

          "It is also important to understand the fear that cops feel everyday on road checkpoints where anybody could fire at him asking papers."

          At this point one wonders why take the risk of pulling someone over for what seems like (to my UK ears at least) an extremely trivial matter.

          The NRA apparently wants to increase gun ownership, which will lead inevitably to more situations where people (the police included) will be in fear of their lives and will shoot at the slightest hint of increased danger. To quote an article from Cracked (http://www.cracked.com/blog/the-7-stupidest-arguments-against-gun-control/) "... this is a supersaturated solution of bullets crystallizing out into gravestones."

          1. cantankerous swineherd

            Re: it is not the guns

            us cops are run as a profit centre, fines, more fines, private jail all grist to the mill.

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: it is not the guns

            Extend beyond the NRA and look at the slightly crazy fringe that insist the 2nd amendment is so that we can "Fight back against the government when the oppress us".

            Two black men get gunned down by police. The next day, a bunch of cops get gunned down.

            Logical, but tragic, progression. The standard whitewashed wet dream is that a bunch of hyper patriotic good 'ole boys are a backstop for liberty, mom, and apple pie against some imaginary boogyman that rises to power. More realistic is that if "we" feel that we're being killed systematically by "them" then at some point an armed rebellion is warranted.

            1. Charles 9 Silver badge

              Re: it is not the guns

              ""Fight back against the government when the oppress us".

              Well, look what happened in Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan. Home field advantage seem to count for quite a bit in a civil war...

        2. CustardGannet

          "...the fear that cops feel everyday..."

          This is how they sell it to us - aren't police brave, protecting our liberties etc etc.

          But bin-men (garbage collectors) are *more than twice* as likely to be killed whilst on duty, and many other professions are even worse - see http://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2015-dangerous-jobs/.

          I doubt there will be a full military funeral for the next binnie to get crushed by a lorry.

          1. UncleZoot

            Re: "...the fear that cops feel everyday..."

            What utter rubbish. Anyone that plays in traffic as do trash collectors are bound to be struck by inattentive drivers. I didn't see listed tow truck drivers.

            Bloomberg for the source says it all with his anti-gun agenda. Old Mikie is protected 24/7 by armed guards, so he himself has no need for a gun. Diane Finstein, the anti-gun senator from Commiefornia has a concealed carry permit in addition to security provided by the US Capitol police.

            Where I live, there have been three tow truck drivers killed by inattentive persons driving into the flashing lights of the truck. It's such a problem that motor vehicle laws were enacted to require you to move over or slow down when in the proximity of a truck.

            The next time you need someone to respond for a theft or domestic dispute, call your local trash man instead of the police.

      2. Spanners Silver badge
        Alert

        Re: Amerifrica - Live there to see: The US is at 'War with Itself'

        Is it the independent streak? The innate distrust of government dating from its origins? Something about the US just seems to make things turn ugly...

        Or was it that the victim was black? You mentioned Switzerland and Japan. Neither of those are so internationally famous for race discrimination and ethnic specific slavery.

        1. Sir Runcible Spoon Silver badge
          FAIL

          Re: Amerifrica - Live there to see: The US is at 'War with Itself'

          "You mentioned <snip> Japan. Neither of those are so internationally famous for race discrimination and ethnic specific slavery."

          You, Sir, have some reading to do.

          1. John Savard Silver badge

            Re: Amerifrica - Live there to see: The US is at 'War with Itself'

            But precisely because Japan doesn't allow much private gun ownership, they won't be having much in the way of incidents of this nature involving their ethnic Korean minority.

        2. Naughtyhorse

          Re: Amerifrica - Live there to see: The US is at 'War with Itself'

          japan?

          internationally famous for race discrimination and ethnic specific slavery.

          Orly?

          come with me, lets take a ride on the Burma railroad and speak to some of the relatives of the 6 million or so Chinese, Koreans, Malaysians, Indonesians, Filipinos and Indochinese slaughtered by the imperial army,

          not really disagreeing, just saying.

          same for a lesser extent goes for the swiss mercenaries, did i say mercs, i meant army... by which I mean everyone in Switzerland!

          fact is there is no one in the world qualified to cast that first stone.

        3. Lotaresco

          Re: Amerifrica - Live there to see: The US is at 'War with Itself'

          "Or was it that the victim was black? You mentioned Switzerland and Japan. Neither of those are so internationally famous for race discrimination and ethnic specific slavery."

          Hmm... I suspect you don't know much about either place. I lived and worked in Switzerland and it was the most racist and most discriminatory country that I have lived in. Yes the Swiss are all superficially charming and civilised but you don't have to dig deep to discover the racism. The treatment of non-Swiss "guest workers" is appalling. There's even discrimination among Swiss nationals with the German speakers taking a dim view of the French, Italian and Romansh speaking cantons.

          Japan keeps quiet about its problems but race discrimination is common. For example Koreans are regarded as "undermen" despite being ethnically indistinguishable from Japanese. Families in Japan will engage private detectives to research a boyfriend's family to ensure that their daughter is not going to marry into the family (however many generations removed) of a "garlic eater". Japan also has a very poor record on slavery both domestically (burakumin, eta, hinin, nuhi) and internationally about 10 million Chinese, 10 million Javanese, close to a million Koreans were pressed into slavery.

      3. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

        Re: Amerifrica - Live there to see: The US is at 'War with Itself'

        Don't the Swiss have locked up guns for the event of war? Not carrying around hand guns.

        1. GrumpenKraut Silver badge

          Re: Amerifrica - Live there to see: The US is at 'War with Itself'

          > Don't the Swiss have locked up guns ...

          I think they have rifles, not guns.

          1. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

            Re: Amerifrica - Live there to see: The US is at 'War with Itself'

            "I think they have rifles, not guns."

            A rifle is a type of gun. I think you are thinking of hand gun.

            But it really doesn't matter much, apart from clarifying that the Swiss definately don't run around "packing" like some seem to think.

            1. Androgynous Cow Herd

              Re: Amerifrica - Live there to see: The US is at 'War with Itself'

              I have both...

              This is my rifle.

              This is my gun.

      4. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Amerifrica - Live there to see: The US is at 'War with Itself'

        >I mean, look at Switzerland.

        ...figures are now lower than in France, Germany & Austria - was down to 1 weapon per 4 people in 2014 and has fallen steadily since. US figures are contentious but there's general agreement guns outnumber people.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Amerifrica - Live there to see: The US is at 'War with Itself'

      Agree 100%

      After a trip to cali 3 years ago and seeing how segregated whites/blacks were, and the hate between them and against the government and the rich etc I said they're going to have another civil war, its only a question of when.

      If you let hate and fear filled people own guns, they will use them, then the anger spreads and others use their guns. I've no idea how they get out of this death spiral.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Culture Clash...... ???

      ~ Sure, blame Culture. The spin-doctor's answer to excuse and whitewash everything....

      ~ Look at the neighbors... Canadians own lots of guns and they're not like that. So what's the difference? Could it be that the USA's brand of unchecked-capitalism is at fault?

      ~ Look to the south and the path the US is likely heading i.e. Mexico (Mass graves of protesting students etc). Too close for comfort? Take India then!

      ~ Widespread violence becomes acceptable when there's incredible inequality, legitimized corruption, and money for social programs gets routinely stolen by corporations & the elite (Think SA-Zuma etc)...

      1. Preston Munchensonton
        WTF?

        Re: Culture Clash...... ???

        Could it be that the USA's brand of unchecked-capitalism is at fault?

        So, violence between police and black people is breaking out because you think that the US government doesn't regulate the economy enough? Likely the dumbest comment ever made, and this is in a world with Donald Trump running for US President.

        1. Triggerfish

          Re: Culture Clash...... ???

          I really think it comes down to some degree to cultural meme's.

          How was the west won?

          How did you defend the range?

          How did you fight of the opressive goverment?

          What's the great equalizer?

          Now in modern day America.

          If there is a problem whats the first thing that seems to be reached for to solve the problem?

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "So, violence between police and black people is breaking out because"....

      "....you think that the US government doesn't regulate the economy enough?"

      ~ Would there be less violence between blacks and the police if there were more opportunities for blacks? That's the question... If you don't think it matters, congratulations go and join white Congress...

      ~ Adding social programs (subsided education / free healthcare) has nothing to do with regulating the economy anyway genius. That's Fed Policy / Treasury / SEC oversight which does little to help blacks pay-day loans...

      ~ There is definitely less racial tension between blacks and whites when more social programs exist. Example: Colombia... Its a type of insurance to stop people being disadvantaged and falling down...

      ~ Poverty and inequality is fueling police vs. blacks killings, not just racism alone. Racism always blossoms anyway when there's extreme poverty and gang lifestyle conflict, as it fuels resentment between all colors & classes!

      1. Preston Munchensonton

        Re: "So, violence between police and black people is breaking out because"....

        Would there be less violence between blacks and the police if there were more opportunities for blacks? That's the question... If you don't think it matters, congratulations go and join white Congress...

        You assume, incorrectly, that somehow regulators could make economic decisions better than individuals. Instead, the regulations that are in place (e.g. minimum wages) have the very real effect of exacerbating the opportunities for unskilled youth, leading to enormously high unemployment among blacks and hispanics. I would love to put all those people to work, but can't by law.

        Adding social programs (subsided education / free healthcare) has nothing to do with regulating the economy anyway genius. That's Fed Policy / Treasury / SEC oversight which does little to help blacks pay-day loans...

        Again, very very poor understanding of political economy. Education and health care have a strong impact on productivity. If you think that there's no connection there, then you misunderstand macroeconomics.

        There is definitely less racial tension between blacks and whites when more social programs exist. Example: Colombia... Its a type of insurance to stop people being disadvantaged and falling down...

        Show me a country with the heterogeniety of the US where this is true. Columbia is far less heterogenous than the US and it's not even close. Nothing about social programs provides insurance against violence. Venezuela disproves your point handily.

        Poverty and inequality is fueling police vs. blacks killings, not just racism alone. Racism always blossoms anyway when there's extreme poverty and gang lifestyle conflict, as it fuels resentment between all colors & classes!

        I never implied that racism is the root cause. But, anyone who has an understanding of US history would never just so simply attribute the violence seen in the last two years to just poverty and inequality. Things are certainly more complex than just simple racism or class struggle.

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "I would love to put all those people to work, but can't by law."

      ......Whose Trump now! Nice condescending elitist tone... Meanwhile, US minimum wage is absolute poverty compared to other developed nations especially Europe.

      ~ "the violence seen in the last two years to just poverty and inequality...."

      ......You quote me but then completely ignore the point! I'm saying the 3-pronged devil of 'POVERTY and INEQUALITY is fueling police vs. blacks killings, not RACISM alone. Racism always blossoms anyway when there's extreme poverty and gang lifestyle conflict, as it fuels resentment between all colors & classes!'

      ~ "Show me a country with the heterogeniety of the US where this is true. Columbia is far less heterogenous than the US and it's not even close."

      ......They're much closer than you think, especially for the purposes of discussing this topic. I live in Bogota, before that I lived in Chicago. Diversity seems much the same, but largely without the cop kill squads or the rising murder rate (up again in ChiTown).

      ~ "Venezuela disproves your point handily."

      ......How? It couldn't be further away from the reality we're discussing here. Go and read some articles on Chavez's toxic policies.. Otherwise its not relevant......

      ~ "Education and health care have a strong impact on productivity. If you think that there's no connection there, then you misunderstand macroeconomics."

      ...... Economics is still hanging its head in shame from 2008, so get off your high horse! I'm saying that the funds to improve quality of life for blacks wouldn't even register as a blip, compared to the debt hoarded by the Fed on its balance sheet. So much of economics is debunkable anyway. Just look at the trickle-down-effect. Even Greenspan and Buffet now acknowledge that its rubbish!

      ~ "very poor understanding of political economy... "

      Stop kidding yourself, you can't even spell Colombia correctly! Plus, there's no great insights or solutions being offered by you, just more pseudo-academic / political noise. The kind people are so sick of worldwide!

      1. Preston Munchensonton
        Mushroom

        Re: "I would love to put all those people to work, but can't by law."

        Last reply, since this cowardly pinhead can't read and can't use logic.

        Whose Trump now! Nice condescending elitist tone... Meanwhile, US minimum wage is absolute poverty compared to other developed nations especially Europe.

        My comment on employing cheap labor wasn't condescension. If I had the opportunity, I would love to employ cheap labor, for many reasons that you clearly wouldn't understand. There's no higher form of racial discrimination anywhere in the world than minimum wage legislation. In the US, it's discriminates against at least 15 million young blacks and hispanics who can't sell their labor.

        You quote me but then completely ignore the point! I'm saying the 3-pronged devil of 'POVERTY and INEQUALITY is fueling police vs. blacks killings, not RACISM alone.

        That's not the sense that your statement conveyed. I would contend that there's more than just poverty, inequality, and racism at play and you're either in denial or ignorant for thinking human behavior can be explained so simply.

        I live in Bogota, before that I lived in Chicago. Diversity seems much the same, but largely without the cop kill squads or the rising murder rate (up again in ChiTown).

        Fortunately, the US is not just Chicago. The studies from Fearon and Alesina both have Colombia ranked more homogenous than the US. In fact, Fearon put Columbia in the top 10 overall and the US in the bottom 50%. It may not seem like it, but your assertion still doesn't hold water sociologically or economically.

        How? It couldn't be further away from the reality we're discussing here. Go and read some articles on Chavez's toxic policies.. Otherwise its not relevant

        You brought up more social programs as a deterrent. Venezuela is the poster child for letting that run rampant to the point where the government thinks it's understands how to price gasoline, toliet paper and other products better than individuals in a free market (or freeish market). As Maggie would say (roughly), the problem with socialism that is that you eventually run out of other people's money.

        Economics is still hanging its head in shame from 2008, so get off your high horse!

        Economics isn't hanging its head at all. You don't understand the causes of the 2008 crash (all of which derive directly from US government intervention in the economy), so don't bother.

        I'm saying that the funds to improve quality of life for blacks wouldn't even register as a blip, compared to the debt hoarded by the Fed on its balance sheet.

        So many fallacies, so little time. Poor people don't need social programs. They need money. Government hand outs like the EITC in the US are better because of their lower dead weight costs and lack of entrapment to the very people they intend to help. Again, so many poor black youth unable to get a job and get on-the-job training to make a career for themselves, simply because employers can't employ them at the rate that corresponds to their productivity. You really should study the minimum wage more before responding.

        So much of economics is debunkable anyway. Just look at the trickle-down-effect. Even Greenspan and Buffet now acknowledge that its rubbish!

        Lovely generalization that doesn't mean or prove anything. Given the high levels of US government intervention since the 1930s, it's astounding to me that Americans continue to fight through it all in pursuit of a better life. Someday, that will stop and the world will be quite poorer after that.

        Stop kidding yourself, you can't even spell Colombia correctly! Plus, there's no great insights or solutions being offered by you, just more pseudo-academic / political noise. The kind people are so sick of worldwide!

        Yes, thank you for the spelling lesson. You did finally manage to score one.

        My great insights aren't great because they're simple. I'm a classical liberal and proud of it. I can point to rapidly approaching eradication of absolute poverty on a global scale directly due to the principles of free markets and capitalism. You on the other hand can't tell the difference between crony capitalism (like the Too-Big-to-Fail banks, NHS contractors, and the like) and free-market capitalism. I'm not kidding myself about how things are and how we got here. But your delusion won't go away based on any words I say, so go back to your pod in the Matrix and try to find some kind of joy in your life. Doesn't sound to me like you have much at all.

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    6. This post has been deleted by its author

    7. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "employers can't employ them at the rate that (equals) their productivity"

      ~ "employers can't employ them at the rate that (equals) their productivity"

      You'd prefer to hire them at a buck-fifty I guess... Its the old lets-chase-down-wages argument...? Make a better case here, give some examples. You're not articulating anything!

      ========================================

      ~ "more than just poverty, inequality, and racism at play"

      ......Sure, but what are they? You fail to add anything new here either...

      ========================================

      ~ "Venezuela is the poster child"

      ....For self-destructive all-out anti-American policy making... But Venezuela is a bad example, an outlier. I'm just talking about basic social programs, health care & free education. But this is unthinkable 'intervention' to you...

      ========================================

      ~ "As Maggie would say (roughly)..."

      ....We have to deal with Thatcher now, give me Reagan at least. You run out of other people's money just as quickly bailing-out banks. Maybe you didn't follow Ireland's predicament where billions of debt were transferred onto the heads of every man, woman and child... How does someone as right as yourself view 'socializing-loses, privatizing-profits' anyway....???

      ========================================

      ~ "causes of the 2008 crash..derive from US government intervention"

      ....WTF? If there had been more intervention in the form of stricter regulation and not just lite-touch oversight, we might have escaped the economic shock and subsequent Japanese 'lost decade'...

      ========================================

      "Poor people don't need social programs. They need money"

      ....Economists argue that what the poor really need are better opportunities / level playing field.... But the US elite are adept at blocking that!

      ========================================

      ~ "eradication of absolute poverty... due to the principles of free markets"

      ....Technological progress has been more key than economic policy making. Plus, it hasn't come without costs to both the environment and people...

      ========================================

      ~ "cowardly pinhead can't read / use logic....try to find joy in your life"

      ....You know the old adage, if you have to resort to personal attacks then you've already lost....

      ========================================

      ....Back on topic: The sad thing, is that cities in Central & South America are generally becoming safer in comparison to their sister US cities. So much wealth, but what good does it do America anymore? This isn't progress...

  8. Ole Juul

    Not that laws matter in the USA

    "They took my phone. They took over my Facebook."

    The Computer Fraud and Abuse Act (CFAA) was enacted by Congress in 1986 and has recently been applied to similar cases. Typically having knowingly accessed a computer without authorisation or exceeding authorised access. Being federal it carries some pretty serious jail time for even the most trivial offence.

    1. postalsusie

      Re: Not that laws matter in the USA

      Please tell that to all the LEGAL MONITORING programs that pay Microsoft a commission to use their already installed components, so that their program install is small and easy, and in turn for paying microsoft, it then favors that monitoring software by NOT putting it on the RED FLAG list that microsoft sends to all its antivirus software friends/clients.

      (If you dont keep your payments up to MS, they remove you from the SPECIAL EXEMPT LIST)

      That results in spyware, monitoring software, tracking & reporting software NOT BEING FOUND BY YOUR ANTIVIRUS SOFTWARE SCANS.

      Next time your A/v software updates, look for that updated list in your hard drive.

      And FYI, and I quote (from the Original owners of Zonealarm firewall) when their tech support wrote me and said " Firewalls are NOT ALLOWED to police all connections on your computer."

  9. David Nash Silver badge
    WTF?

    I can see why they want to confiscate people's phones in such cases, but do they have any legal basis for doing so?

    1. Charles 9 Silver badge

      Yes, evidence. And a warrant isn't always necessary if the scene is deemed a pursuit (or they can justify it before a judge after the fact: an "exigent circumstance" seizure).

      1. AndrueC Silver badge
        Thumb Up

        If it's anything like the UK there will be a whole slew of reasons why a warrant might not be required (protecting evidence, protecting people, protecting property, pursuing a criminal).

    2. Lee D Silver badge

      Confiscation for the purposes of preservation of evidence would be okay, so long as it was all signed off and sealed properly.

      Going into her Facebook account and pressing Delete or even adjusting the visibility? That's illegal tampering of evidence even if no "direct harm" was done by doing so.

      Just pressing the buttons on a logged-in phone could be construed as such, as you then have NO idea what MIGHT have been in there before the tamperer got to the it - cop or bystander (and if it's a modern phone with encryption and flash, there may be no way to recover whatever you deleted, or even a way to tell that you deleted something).

      It was deemed illegal to delete photos from the cameras, or even force photographers in public places to delete them by making a scary policeman do it themselves. This is exactly the same but happening immediately after a potential murder / attempted murder of a police officer (if there were genuinely at threat of death from the guy). It's a lot more serious.

      1. AndrueC Silver badge
        Meh

        Well yes, in this particular case, it was evidence tampering.

        However the original question posed by David Nash was a hypothetical one seeking to find out if in general the police had to have a warrant. Both myself and Charles 9 were answering by pointing out that the police do not always need a warrant.

  10. s. pam
    Headmaster

    What man soweth he reaps

    Having lived in the US for a while, sadly I'm not at all surprised. The US police seem to think they live in some form of an immunity reality distortion cloud. The police are retaliating for the 30 years of drive-by shooting nonsense by the drug dealers and the Blacks are fed up by the predominantly white officers shooting them.

    Dallas is likely to be just the start, the Black Americans are really fed up. Farcebook be damned for the "accidental" whatever bollox. The US could quickly become a no-go zone for holiday makers if this ratchets up 1 or 2 levels on the old Vu meter!

    1. Jason Bloomberg Silver badge
      Unhappy

      Re: What man soweth he reaps

      The US police seem to think they live in some form of an immunity reality distortion cloud.

      It does sometimes seem that every case of police abuse follows the same pattern -

      The police department say everything was done by the book, the officers have no case to answer.

      If it goes before a Grand Jury that will decide there was no case to answer.

      If it makes it to court there will be an acquittal

      If there is a conviction the punishment will be mild.

      That is pretty close to immunity so it's not surprising cops engage in abuse when they know they will most likely get away with it.

  11. Kiwi Silver badge
    Holmes

    @ac

    ...who seemed more interested in...that[sic] trying to convince the cop to save her boyfriend's life...

    (El Reg, your android app needs work esp copy'n'paste!)

    Bear in mind that a trigger-happy cop had just shot her boyfriend, said cop was highly excited therefore nervous therefore likely to shoot again, and said cop was ordering her to keep her hands still. I think from the footage I saw she also asked for help and got shouted down. Don't think she could've done much more and probably would also have been killed had she tried.

  12. Efros

    There is a known syndrome here in the US

    It's the "Asshole Cop" syndrome, the vast majority of police here are regular people doing their job the best they can. Then there's the Asshole Cop, he/she became a cop for all the wrong reasons, sense of empowerment, bitchin' uniform, sidearm in a holster, etc not to serve their community but to serve their ego. It's they that cause most of the fuck ups and PR disasters that PDs suffer. Every PD has at least one and every officer can tell you who they are, there doesn't seem to be any selection procedure in place to actually prevent them getting into or purge them from the system. The militarisation of the police in the US has done little to help this syndrome with many cops coming from "the service" and bringing with them the arrogance that the US military seems to instill as part of their basic training, not good for community relations or policing.I live in a small rural area in New England and I have knowledge of about 4 of the local PDs and I can identify at least 1 Asshole Cop in each of those PDs.

    1. Fatman Silver badge

      Re: There is a known syndrome here in the US

      You are on the right road, but have the 'terminology' wrong.

      The proper expression is:

      PIG,

      much like their feral cousins.

  13. lukewarmdog

    +1 for live streaming / storage

    Never thought I'd see a situation where I felt live streaming from my phone was going to be important. This changes my way of thinking completely.

    Also incredibly unsurprised by the sniper attack. So many people with an axe to grind against the police it's hardly surprising someone has taken the opportunity. Doesn't make it right, just another depressing aspect of gun ownership.

    1. Preston Munchensonton
      FAIL

      Re: +1 for live streaming / storage

      Doesn't make it right, just another depressing aspect of gun ownership

      Nothing about gun ownership gives a person the right to pull that trigger. It's like suggesting that drunk driving is somehow the ultimate result of car ownership.

      1. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

        Re: +1 for live streaming / storage

        Well.. Hate to break it to you, but you can't drive drunk if there aren't any cars.

        1. Charles 9 Silver badge

          Re: +1 for live streaming / storage

          Hate to break it to you, but there are still bikes, boats, and just plain walking, which you can't take away without putting them in a wheelchair.

          It's like with violence in general. Take away the guns and violent people just switch to knives, clubs, and bombs while the suicidal turn to vehicle impacts, self-defenestration, and poison (the three chief methods of suicide in Japan, a country with few guns, but more per capita suicides than anywhere in the west, last I checked).

          1. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

            Re: +1 for live streaming / storage

            Hate to break it to you, but drunk cycling, drunk walking and even drunk boating isn't a massive problem. Unlike drunk driving. It's the potential to kill innocent people, you see, that's the problem. A gun is really good for killing with very little effort.

            Suicide? That's not really a concern for the innocent victims, is it?

            I can string myself up, if I want to go. It's just so much harder to string up a few dozen people who resists.

  14. FuzzyWuzzys

    X-Cops, art imitates life once more

    The shock-rock band GWAR had a little side project in the 1990s called X-Cops, which some may have heard of. It's basically a load of rock/metal songs with the band playing the parts of corrupt police officers, the songs basically glorifying state sponsored violence against members of the public. "Paddy Wagon Rape", a song about police officers picking up drunk women to haul them in but raping them in the wagon before they get to the station, the message being that "You're drunk, we're Police, who are the courts going to believe when you report us?". "My Third Leg" , a song glorifying the fact the character is so obsessed with weaponry and shooting anything he can that he even masturbates over his armory. ( There's also a very good cover of Deep Purple's Highway Star! )

    It was released shortly after the horrific case of Rodney King and at the time was well recieved by fans of the band members. We laughed at the disturbing lyrics and the nasty characters but the more reports come in these days of Police brutaity and corruption, such as this latest case, then more obvious it is that was simply art imitating true lives of a minority but very nasty aspect of the Police force in the US.

  15. kmac499

    The wrong suspect story

    Anybody see the details of the Dallas Police twittering pictures of a suspect... He wasn't one of the shooters, he was a peaceful protester. But the reason he was tagged as a suspect.

    He was carrying a rifle and wearing camouflage clothing, Lousy fashion choice maybe but taking a gun to a peace rally..

    When his brother was asked why he was carrying the answer was "Because it is his right.". It may be your legal right mate but.... words just fail me.

  16. cantankerous swineherd

    Dallas looks to be the, ahem, well regulated militia protecting Americans against an over mighty state. was always going to happen and could get very nasty.

    alternatively, tptb could decide to go for gun control as opposed to the nra's mass shoot out.

  17. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Media is exaggerating known facts

    Go watch Reynolds' livestream video. It DOES NOT show the shooting. It starts after that. We don't see what happened, we see Reynolds SAYING what happened.

    It IS her word against the police.

    IF it's true that the police deleted it, that's the most incriminating fact. Unless they had body cameras, the best evidence we'll get is a cop car dashcam video that the police can explain away with "he pulled a gun!"

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Media is exaggerating known facts

      >[...] the best evidence we'll get is a cop car dashcam video [...]

      So everyone, due to technical difficulties... *nervous laughter*

      Let's face it, no matter where in the world, 99% of the police are dirty.

    2. Tom 7 Silver badge

      Re: Media is exaggerating known facts

      I think its this case that it was stated that the body cameras of both police officers 'fell off before the incident"!

  18. nsld

    So the bigger question is

    Why did Facebook call it a glitch when they will have full logs of what happened, when and from what device?

  19. moiety

    Nothing's going to improve while the police keep walking away from these sorts of things. Like the kid in the playground with a toy gun...he was just plain executed. Like that chap a few days ago who was shot in the back in (Baton Rouge?).

    Unless there's some accountability and justice being seen to be done, things are going to get very much worse.

    1. Anonymous Noel Coward
      Boffin

      Like that chap a few days ago who was shot in the back

      Worst case of suicide the police had ever seen.

    2. GrumpenKraut Silver badge
      Unhappy

      > ..., things are going to get very much worse.

      I got the nagging feeling that did just happen.

      1. moiety

        TBH I'm absolutely amazed that this sort of thing hasn't happened sooner. I'm bloody astounded that officers who murder people and who get away with it haven't been targeted well before now.

        "If someone's trying to murder you, you try and murder them right back" to misquote Firefly.

  20. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    You report as fact that the gentleman was reaching for his ID when shot. What is your source for reporting this as fact?

  21. Maty

    some comparisons

    Canada has 10% of the US population and shares many aspect of a common North American culture.

    Canada has 31 guns per 100 residents, but mainly rifles. In Canada there are around 150-200 deaths from firearms per year - over 70% of which are suicides and 3% are accidents. All Canadian cops are armed Police shootings make up less than 2% of fatalities.

    In the USA there are around 11,000 deaths from firearms, of which around 60% are suicides. Guns are used in 60% of US homicides and 10% of Canadian. Whites are killed by police officers more often than blacks, but white make up around 60% of the population, blacks make up 10%.

    OTOH, apparently police officers are eight times more likely to be killed by a black gunman than a white one, which may partly account for their trigger-happiness

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: some comparisons

      >OTOH, apparently police officers are eight times more likely to be killed by a black gunman than a white one, which may partly account for their trigger-happiness

      Only 43% of offenders who killed officers since 1980 were black - according to the FBI stats - see the Washington Post Fact Checking series.

  22. John Savard Silver badge

    Action Is Needed

    If the police used her login credentials to tamper with her Facebook account, this is a violation of Facebook Terms of Service, and should also be prosecuted to the maximum extent of the law under the Computer Fraud and Misuse Act, as this clearly was not done in order to investigate a crime.

    1. Tom 7 Silver badge

      Re: Action Is Needed

      I would guess it was still all logged in when they took it from her.

  23. Zot

    I saw this link yesterday on reddit. The cop sounds completely wired AND nervous - a terrible combination to be carrying a gun!

    1. GX5000

      He'd just been forced to shoot a man who "reached" when told to keep still...as you

      can hear him say in the video...You'd be panicked too.

      1. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

        This is all so stupid. Perhaps the person was hard of hearing? Perhaps he couldn't hear properly because he was stressed? Either way, it's all so effing stupid. GET RID OF GUNS IN YOUR GODDAM COUNTRY!

      2. mhenriday
        Boffin

        ...as you can hear him say in the video...

        Only problem with that attempt to whitewash the murder, «GX5000», was that the video recording was started only after the cop had shot the victim four times, as anyone who has listened to it can confirm....

        But nice try !...

        Henri

  24. GX5000

    GWN

    When a PO says keep them up and you reach for "blank"......

    When you're "secured" on the ground but still trying for that weapon in your pocket....

    The less people gossip and research these stories the less sympathy and rage.

  25. Mahhn

    Sad

    I have friends that I grew up with that became police, they are good people and deal with a lot of stupid people. I fear for them, they are doing a mostly thankless job that sucks for short pay and are having to expect to be shot at ALL the time. The 1% to 3% bad people that become police are not only killing people that should not be, they are getting good police shot in retaliation. This crap is bad for everyone. Anyone that thinks it's all police is stupid and part of the problem. That's like hating all musicians for kanye west, but people are dying. It's just sad for everyone.

  26. kain preacher Silver badge

    I was told this by a cop. 10% cops are bad. 20% are good. The other 70% follow the lead of the admin. in the US there if you are a cop and turn in a dirty cop are going have problems. here is an example. in Florida a state trooper pulled over a Miami cop for doing 120 she hand cuffed him and arrested him. this was posted on you tube. I saw allot of comments from so called cops saying she was wrong. it was later revealed that she got harassed so much she had to move to a desk job in anther district. She later found out that her information was access 52 times illegally. She had strange cars following her.

    1. Mahhn

      Unfortunately I see this as true depending on the department. I lived in Phoenix AZ 30 years ago and saw people beaten to near death that didn't need to be, and know of others that weren't so lucky. I was threatened similarly when wrongfully stopped one night. I left that hell hole. I live in another state now that has some of the best "social skill" training for police and it is an entirely different world.

  27. postalsusie

    Cops in Calgary dont take Cell phones as evidence

    In 2013 someone I know was found dead, and their cell phone was completely erased except for ONE i-note, with a time stamp list that later turned out to be a PUSH from bank alerts, that had been held back by a DO NOT DISTURB on the bank software.( numerous E transfers of $ OUT of the deceased account BEFORE the body was found.)

    POINT IS, Calgary cops did not see a totally erased cell phone, at the scene of a dead body, as a red flag.

    LONG STORY.

    Point is even after talking to detectives over a whole year none of them had CLUE ONE about getting info from a cell phone AT ALL.

    I said " You know you have GPS and it can tell you where the deceased WAS for three days, and there is email and photos, and time stamps, and bank alerts, and photos and video that could all help you solve a crime."

    The officers IN THE FIELD have apparently NO TRAINING WHATSOEVER with gathering computer of cell phone forensic evidence.

    NONE.

    ZERO.

    City of Calgary Police = total FAIL

    The bank involved? No surprise.. DENIED any breach of security to the deceased bank account.

    oh and BTW... on another case in Calgary.. the Court system DOES NOT TAKE DIGITAL EVIDENCE for examples of any kind. If you have scientific evidence, it better be PUBLISHED ON PAPER or they will not take it, no matter what the source. You need live witnesses for every single fact.

    Also, because of the Microsoft copyright WALL in regard to playing burned videos... though the video clip was done in THREE Formats ( for ease of play) NONE would play because they were burned to disc and none of the courts operating systems would recognize and PLAY it.

    thank you SO much Microsoft and Panasonic etc.

  28. This post has been deleted by its author

  29. DougS Silver badge

    Guess you might want to smash your phone

    Before the police can get hold of it, after recording something like this. If it wasn't for people sharing her video, when the cops removed it from her Facebook profile it would have been gone for good.

  30. DanceMan

    Evidence Tampering

    What are the chances we'll see charges laid against an officer for evidence tampering in regard to the attempt to delete the FB video?

    About the same as seeing any real consequences for the officer that committed this murder? By real I mean something more than a desk job or a mere firing.

  31. TimeMaster T
    Flame

    Hang on ...

    Doesn't the USA have some Federal level laws about unauthorized access/use of a computer or some such that can get a person put in jail for 20-life?

    Oh, wait, just remembered the police are exempt from following the laws they are supposed to be upholding.

    never mind.

  32. Henry Wertz 1 Gold badge

    What should change?

    "That being said, an argument could be made as to which gun killed the poor guy if him having a firearm prompted the officer to shoot him."

    No the argument can't be made, there's no question the officer killed him with his gun. These types of trigger-happy officers will decide your wallet looks like a gun, a pack of smokes looks like a gun, a phone looks like a gun. A few years back locally, a police officer shot someone through the heart who was in their own art studio (at midnight) talking on the phone. Initially he claimed he thought the phone was a gun, then said he saw the door open, decided to just go in and flinched when someone was standing right there.

    Several things need to be done:

    1) This "police having other police's back" type nonsense has to go. Comradery and so on? Yeah, this is fine. Covering up for officer misconduct? This has never been a good thing, it has always tarnished reputations of departments involved (due to rumors and so on); it's now the 21st century, so these coverup attempts will be completely unsuccessful, and it won't be rumors tarnishing the department but proven fact of misconduct and coverup. (In the art studio example, there was no attempt to cover up.)

    2) Make sure officers do follow their training. Some few will just plain be dirty, and they've got to go. Some aren't "dirty" but just don't have the temperament for it, they're too high-strung. Plenty of others just don't quite follow procedure... which doesn't usually lead to any problems, until it does. (In the art studio example, the officer went in alone when procedure was to go in with backup; both for officer safety, and to keep the officers calmer (since they have backup) and so less likely to make mistakes.)

    3) The mentality. There are definitely some departments with an "us versus them" mentality; the police tend to not be respectful toward the public, the public know what they'll get interacting with the police and are not respectful either. The officers tend to be rather high-strung and nervous ("us versus them" remember); the public knows if they are stopped they'll be treated like a criminal, so they're nervous. The police are trained to be suspicious when the person stopped is nervous, so this makes them more nervous... On the other hand, there are departments that take "protect and serve" seriously, they want to reduce crime while recognizing they shouldn't interact with the general public as though they are all potential criminals. They treat the public with respect, and are (usually) treated with respect in return. It makes their job easier and less stressful, and they stress the public less. I'm happy to say, locally the local PD and the state patrol both tend to be reasonably friendly.

  33. Henry Wertz 1 Gold badge

    Failed.

    "IF it's true that the police deleted it, that's the most incriminating fact. Unless they had body cameras, the best evidence we'll get is a cop car dashcam video that the police can explain away with "he pulled a gun!""

    They did have body cameras; "mysteriously" they all failed.

  34. NanoMeter

    Finally a good use for clouds

    It's possible on some phones to set video recorded to be automatically uploaded to a cloud for extra safe keeping.

    1. Soruk

      Re: Finally a good use for clouds

      Just ensure that the sync settins are configured, server-side, not to honour delete requests, or at least move deleted files to a deleted area instead of actually deleting.

  35. julian.smith

    The Good News

    It's only Americans killing Americans

    Think of all of it as Species Improvement

    Better they keep their self made problems to themselves rather than inflicting it on the rest of the world via their failed interventions in other countries

    How's that Great Society working out Yankee Imperialists?

    1. GrumpenKraut Silver badge
      Unhappy

      Re: The Good News

      > It's only Americans killing Americans

      Gasp! I have been in the US on several occasions and have met tons of great people.

  36. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Zuck, it was a good post UNTIL the last line, where this senseless tragedy is used to indirectly promote Facebook aka "an open and connected world" Isn't that the Facebook slogan? Shame on Zuck: instead of promoting individual or corporate agenda (however indirectly), we should instead be mourning this loss and resolving to do better as individuals and communities !!

  37. mhenriday
    FAIL

    The «indispensable nation»

    And all this in the country that arrogates to itself the right to tell all others how they are to behave themselves and - in the event they are deemed to be incapable of effectively defending themselves - invading, plundering, and destroying them....

    Irony hardly comes in more delicious flavours....

    Henri

  38. This post has been deleted by a moderator

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