Scares the fucking shit out of me.
Since the publication of this story, new information has come to light. Read: Facebook ‘glitch’ that deleted the Philando Castile shooting vid – it was the police, claim sources When Minnesota police shot and killed Philando Castile during a routine traffic stop on Wednesday evening, his girlfriend broadcast his final moments …
Note that this is a cop, rather than a member of a militia or the Gangster Disciples.
That said, there have been black concealed carry holders that have managed to not get killed during a traffic stop. You're only going to hear about the ones where bubba goes apesh*t. Although I will admit our cops like to channel Dirty Harry a bit too much. This means no one can be complacent.
Facebook's mishandling of this video is certainly "convenient" though...
> You're only going to hear about the ones where bubba goes apesh*t
See that's the problem. As far as I can tell, he told the cops about his gun, as REQUIRED by law, and told them several times he was just going to pull out his wallet, as ordered by the cop to produce ID.
I didn't see any bubba going apesh*t
The cops in Baton Rouge might get off but this bubba is going to be an old man if he is real lucky when he finally gets out of jail. Ask that asshat wannabe cop in Oklahoma. If an old white rich CEO playing cop can't get off in racially progressive Tulsa (hahaha) this guy is royally fscked.
You don't have the privilege of being an anonymous coward when dealing with the cops here. I think in 50 years, I've met maybe one decent cop.
Two of my high school friends were sons of the local Sheriff. Highly respected bloke in the community. Really nice guy. It was a sad day in our senior year when he was indicted and convicted of bribery and embezzlement.
If I was black or any color in America I would still fear cars more than police.
On a mathematical basis that's sensible. Unfortunately the "death by cop" problem is a huge and unforgiveable breach of trust. Police officers are supposed to be "of the citizens", holding citizens to be accounted by the judiciary. Other than where they are directly threatened and their life at risk, there should be no right to kill the population they are charged with protecting.
Here in the UK, the names of Jean Paul de Menezes and Ian Tomlinson (and indeed 96 people killed at Hillsborough) show that the UK is not immune from this tendency to whitewash the actions of police officers.
Black males have a greater risk of another black male (non-LEO) shooting them than any other cause of death.
This shooting is tragic for all involved.
The driver should have had ID ready before the officer got to the window. Especially a CCW holder. Part of CCW training is what to do in the case of a traffic stop.
Did not have to die.
@"The driver should have had ID ready before the officer got to the window. "
The officer told him to get his ID, he complied, then the officer shot him. I am wondering why the officer was so pumped up that compliance is seen as terminal threat.
Get the officer under oath and find out if this was one of those "parallel construction" cases. Because he could well have been pumped up by some moron and his data mining to think this guy was an exaggerated threat.
In all fairness, I don't think we or any other country can feel superior about the their police forces. There's bad apples in every department and dealing with the public service sector's regs on firing, it's tough to weed the bad ones' and the ones unsuited for the position out.
I'd like to think it's getting better out there, but reality is, it isn't. I can understand a cop being jumpy about someone with a gun as the rotten cops have made all cops a target. But the video points out too much incompetence to be believed.
Sidenote: The fact that FB pulled not only the video but the uploader's profile shows a definite knee-jerk reaction to this.
I'm a 70 year-old white American, and I'm telling you that America has ALWAYS been a police state. The police just aren't allowed to beat people as much as they used to.
Right now our police are heavily militarized. If you're stopped by a policeman, it's best to treat him like an unstable, heavily-armed psychotic. Say, "Yes sir" and "No sir" and consider yourself to be looking down a gun barrel at all times. They will kill or injure you and you or your survivors will have no recourse.
The problem here is that EVERY encounter with a cop in the US is now a life or death situation. When you have an armed populace, EVERYONE is frightened, the cops moreso as they have to deal with more stressful interactions with the public.
The NRA supports gun ownership becaus eof the 2nd Amendment which has the stated intent that authority SHOULD be frightened of the populace. However what they failed to realise that when authority is frightened it just become MORE authoritarian rather than more responsible (the intention), as the general response by authority to "I've got a gun" is "I've got a BIGGER gun and lots more of them, and the ability to use it against you with no repercussions".
Thus you have a de facto police state where the authorities in the US from the local cop to the TSA goons can do whatever the fuck they like and are answerable to nobody. This creates more and more tension between authority and the public which eventually breaks and ends up with riots in black neighbourhoods or snipers taking "revenge" in Dallas.
Its fucked up and nobody seems prepared to do anythign about it. Its funny how silent the NRA has been over this - shouldn't they be defending the right of gun owners to own their guns without being shoit by cops... oh no sorry thats WHITE gun owners of course I forgot...
I think people are getting a bit carried away here.
I've had one interaction with the US police while on a business trip to the US, a traffic policeman in Cary, North Carolina, after I was rear ended by a newly qualified driver. It was one of the most professionally handled situations I have ever encountered. I had three children in the back of my car and my wife in the passenger seat. The 19 year old girl who rear ended me was in shock but that was because she had made a mess of the front end of her father's Volvo not because of anything that the unfailingly polite and professional policeman did. I have colleagues who were also involved in traffic incidents (like me also the innocent parties) and they had no concerns at all about how events unfolded.
So let's calm down a bit and stop claiming that the sky is falling. I'm not denying that there is a problem but we won't get any help from the police to fix it if we all simply assume that all police officers are murderous bastards.
Partially true, I suppose. The reality is that (according to the Federal Bureau of Prisons) 46.3% of prisoners are there for drug charges. Nearly half! The next highest is arson, explosives, and weapons charges at 16.9% and third is immigration offenses at 9.2%. All other offenses, murder, burglary, rape, etc. are only around a quarter of the prison population, I'd say the prison population in the US could be reduced by 50% simply by deporting immigration offenders and a more realistic handling of drug offenses, in particular legalization of marijuana.
>It should. It's as insane as any nation can be and continues raising the bar.
Its as insane as any Western democracy (but even we don't send dry land legitimate political refugees to the third world like Australia). Its scary perhaps due to our influence but with the US you know its 1%ers chasing money as the motivation as opposed to somewhere completely bat sh1t crazy like NK.
There is a customary procedure to follow when pulled over.
The officer rarely jumps out and runs up to the vehicle. There is a period of time while he calls the stop in and reports the plate, etc. and waits for any wants or warrants. That is the time when the driver should get their ID ready. Especially for a CCW holder. Have open hands on the wheel.
Then there is no reaching for something when the officer is vulnerable at the window.
Everybody goes home.
The Driver probably did. The CCW holder was a passenger. There was no reason beyond fishing for an excuse there would be no reason for the cop to say anything to the passenger. The car was supposed to have a bad tail light, so write a ticket, have driver sign, run the plate and driver's license just because, and let everyone go.
Also watch "Breakfast in Collinsville" on Youtube for similar cops messing with people, except white, so no shooting.
If one has a CCW, they should have put some serious thought into how they act and what they say during encounters with the police. I suggest informing the officer that one has a gun, that they have a permit to carry it, where it is and if the officer is asking for ID, that they very specifically say where the ID is and ask if they should get it out or not.
Police officers are not immune from prosecution, so they are not trigger happy morons that are looking for the least provocation to shoot. A wrong choice with a firearm is career ending in many cases. One should also realize that in a standoff that the police cannot be seen to lose. "Unarmed" (usually meaning that the assailant doesn't have a gun) is not relevant when analyzing an officer involved shooting. It has been shown repeatedly that if somebody takes a run at an officer from 3 meters or less, they have an excellent chance to tackle that officer before he can draw his weapon and fire.
I'm sure that the actions of these fucked up coppers (police) are not the norm, and that there are likely lots of decent cops in the US.
However, until the Police authorities start treating these rogue coppers as criminals in their midst (i.e. not welcome) nothing will be done to prevent more rogue cops getting away with murder.
If they make an effort to clean up their house and communicate to their police that this is not the way to behave and if they do they are out, in court, jail etc. then maybe they will earn some respect.
EARN some respect. Not demand it at the point of a gun. Otherwise long term prognosis is anarchy.
So far the two explanations commonly put forward for the removal of the video are that it's a technical glitch (Facebook's explanation) or that the police/government are trying to suppress it.
While I'm all for shedding light on police misconduct, brutality or even murder, it is not unreasonable to think that someone at Facebook thought that video of the bloody aftermath of such a murder should not be readily available on their platform which is commonly used by all kinds of people, including children.
"While I'm all for shedding light on police misconduct, brutality or even murder, it is not unreasonable to think that someone at Facebook thought that video of the bloody aftermath of such a murder should not be readily available on their platform which is commonly used by all kinds of people, including children."
Children need to be educated to the fact that our police must be viewed as incompetent, armed and dangerous.
-Like everything else in the US it all depends on your zip code and how you look-
It's more about how you act. If one hands an officer a load of attitude, pulls out the race card and spouts off about their "rights", an officer is going to want to dig to see if there are some warrants. I'm not sure how this encounter got going, but it sounds suspicious that the person killed was reaching for something after telling the officers that he was armed. Most police officers that I know would have had him step out of the car, put his hands on the car and allow the officer to retrieve the weapon before allowing him to get out his wallet and ID.
"Yes sir's, no sir's" and "Thank you, sir's" politely delivered will go a long way to minimizing any problems and getting back on your way quickly. A broken tail light is a caution unless the officer finds something else. If you give them a load of crap, it becomes a ticket if they don't find anything else, but they'll research everybody in the car if they're given a reason. If you know someone that has a bad case of loudmouthism, don't let them ride in your car.
"Children need to be educated to the fact that our police must be viewed as incompetent, armed and dangerous."
Yes maybe they do, but perhaps not by psychologically scarring them for life?
You want your children to be aware of things like this? Fine you can tell them, if you want you can even find the video to show them, but do you really want unsupervised kids of any age able to find it on one of the world's most popular websites.
"But beheading videos are ok Phil?"
Nope, certainly not, and while some idiot at Facebook thought that they were a few years ago they were overruled a short time later and that video was removed.
The argument for removing these videos from a freely accessible platform like Facebook has nothing to do with their specific content, but to do with the suitability of various types of content for an unknown and unrestricted audience.
If you think it's ok to have videos of real life murder, and the aftermath thereof, freely available on Facebook then let's allow hardcore pornography to and while we're at let's put the violence and porn on prime time TV since we're not worried about the kids seeing it.
There is a world of difference between censorship to protect the young (and/or those of a sensitive disposition) and actively removing all traces of some material from the media to prevent the public knowing about things.
I think it's basically instilled in every American youth by every US cop show that shooting problems makes them go away cleanly with absolutely no personal ramifications. It then becomes written into the fundamental stress-response instincts, right alongside 'holding a gun makes you feel more in control'. One then bumps directly into the other.
When they do their live ammo gun training, they should have a backpack that tasers them every time they shoot a target based on an instinctive rather than a logical assessment. They need to physically train the animal mind to *obey* the logical mind in times of stress, otherwise it'll go straight out the window first thing, along with all of its attached fancy-shmancy book learnings, rules and examifications we thought were blocking this here.
Actually perhaps it would be better if each shot had a stigma attached to it. Not sure about tasers; but there seems to be a culture in which there is insufficient perception of the associated trauma of shooting people; not just for the recipient and his family but for both society and the perpetrator.
Many of my friends have had some form of PCSD - it is not a joking issue and as for the effect on the target and his or her family it should be reasonably seen as a justified final resort, not a convenient way of solving a little bit of concern,
For fucks sake - how can these police officers have been so badly trained. Have they never heard of "policing by consent"? Are they really determined to make people of some colour other than white and not often Asian convinced that North Korea is a better place to live?
Yeah that alone is enough reason for me to so far (knock on wood) to never have killed someone. Not only is nobody worth the jail time but I would prefer to not think about them every day for the rest of my life.
>Are they really determined to make people of some colour other than white and not often Asian convinced that North Korea is a better place to live?
The movie Colors actually shows how this dynamic somewhat how a community is one bad cop away from disaster plus imho its a good flick. The scene where they show all the gangs chilling including the sanctioned one the police really stood out to me.
For fucks sake - how can these police officers have been so badly trained.
Well therein lies the issue. What is a "Police Officer"? Unlike the UK where we have one main layer of law enforcement, the term has no useful meaning in the US. It could be FBI, State Troopers, County Sheriffs or local town/city PD.
Naturally, the smaller PDs generally do much less training than your average FBI agent. Due to limited resource/funding, the (re)training programme of a small town PD is likely much less robust than say Chicago PD - for instance, they might spend lots of time on the range learning to shoot accurately and proficiently, but at the cost of role-play and realistic simulation.
I spent a couple of hours watching Thames Valley Armed Response doing drills - they only (blank) fired once in all that period. Most of the scenarios resulted in a de-escalation and non-fatal arrest.
I suspect some of the less robust US training programmes inadvertently reinforce "Scenario Fulfilment" where officers start down a path of force (draw side-arm, prepare for use of force) and all their training has resulted in them finally using force, so they're mentally set on a path which doesn't end with de-escalation and get subconsciously tunnel-visioned towards firing their weapon.
When every Christmas come
You buy the youth a pretty toy gun
When every Christmas come
You buy the youth a fancy toy gun
So, you can't blame the youth
You can't fool the youth
You can't blame the youth
You can't fool the youth
-- Peter Tosh RIP
Maybe they should just send the police that kill people to prison?
Maybe that will be enough to train the animal mind to obey the logical mind in times of stress? It works for the rest of society, doesn't it?
We have a similar issue on a much smaller scale in the UK, in that no police officer has ever had a conviction upheld for killing someone in the line of duty.
The problem is that governments are scared to send cops to prison for killing civilians in the line of duty, because police violence is, at the end of the day, their ultimate method of population control.
I don't think they demand to be called "sir". I think the citizens are trying to be as respectful as possible, you know, to avoid being shot.
I am surprised at how calm that young woman was. Is it because being shot is so common place? A sad state of affairs.
"Perhaps we really are living in a Philip K Dick-style dystopia where information is suppressed at the touch of a mousepad but we are too afraid to admit it."
From examples such as this, that do leak, I am sure that more information is suppressed than most people would believe. Nowadays it is too easy for the TLAs (and other agencies) to coerce the media/individuals to withhold stories that embarrass the establishment.
A couple of years ago I was touring America with my wife, visiting relatives and exploring route 66, amongst other things. We were walking through Chicago trying to find a particular building, when my wife (who is of Asian appearance) decided to ask for directions. A very feminine idea, but probably not a very wise one in the circumstances. She saw a man in uniform, walked up to him and tapped him on the shoulder. The man was some sort of security guard and, of course, was armed. He immediately grabbed his gun and whirled round to face her. He relaxed and became very courteous as soon as he realised what was going on, but it was a tense few moments. I sometimes wonder what would have happened if her skin had been a few shades darker. By the way, it turned out that he didn't know the city much better than we did, and didn't know where the place was.
30,000 Americans have been killed this year in traffic accidents, and 100,000 by medical error. Somehow nobody is sharpening the pitchforks and lighting the torches over that.
You have to look at the specifics in each incident, and clusters of incidents to see if there is wrongdoing on the part of the individuals and institutions involved. Policing can be nasty and dangerous work. They tend not to interact much with the top 99% of orderly and civilized people, and the bottom 1% can be random, unpredictable and dangerous.
I haven't looked at this one. No doubt someone will tell me he was on his way to choir practice from volunteering at a hospice.
What difference does it make where he was headed or what he does in his spare time? He could have been headed to the local fluffy-kitten sacrifice cult annual BBQ and he still wouldn't deserve to get shot for explicitly following a cops orders.
Being a cop is not terribly dangerous compared to other jobs. Being a crab fisherman is considerably more dangerous, but we don't use that as an excuse to allow crabbers to shoot people.
Having grown up around cops I can say quite confidently that most cops are racist assholes who are incredibly insecure anytime they are not 100% in control. There are some good cops out there, but they've been bullied into just going along with the rest.
Ten officers shot at Dallas protest against police shootings
MD Rackham, from your comments I would assume that you would be ecstatic about this
You cannot possibly be trying to find a way to justify the actions of this officer, can you? He shot a man who was following his instructions, four times, while he was not under threat.
Cops shot black people way more than white people. It's not a statistical aberration, it's not an accident, he wasn't asking for it and the fact some other idiot with a gun shot ten police officers doesn't change any of this one little bit.
Of course not, it is just another example of American cops, usually white, getting on some power trip and shooting a white man.
There is another video where they enhanced it and show the cop tried to lie about victim taking his taser which clearly fell to the floor in one place, then after he kills the man he picks it up and drops it near the body.
Black Murder by cop is a very real and serious thing in the US
How many of those 506 were shooting at either the cops or soomeone else? We just had a case where a 22yo female police oficer responded to a 911 call. Several people started/were shooting at each other, she shot and killed one of the shooters. The rest ran off. For doing her duty(stopping the BAD guys) she was then attacked by the rest of the Fathers Day revelers.(Syracuse, NY)
The man she shot WAS armed. So, is he counted as one of the 506?
Next Question: How many young black men have been killed in Chicago by other young black men(non-police)?
Last Question: Do you think that police should not enter hazardous situations(even traffic stops CAN be hazardous) and let things be what they may?
Just a little food for thought.
Hogwash, trying to justify murder by police officers by muddying water with other crime is the typical response we see from racists. Two wrongs do not make a right and stop trying to bury an important issue in other stats.
THE ISSUE is COPS KIILING BLACKS,
Did you see the video where they shot the guy behind in his alimony, 8 shots in the back,
he was walking away, no aggression whatsoever.
BUT what was he doing before that I hear you say
Walking away from a traffic stop
To rreally understand the disdain US cops have for black men go watch this to see Police activity in Garner Muder by Cop case
Then see this to see Paramedic clearly find him not breathing but saying nothing for fear of response, there is a way dead bodies move, the look of the face, lifeforce has gone.
Coroner determined it was Homocide
A NYC Grand Jury would not indite the cop that murdered him
Cop even wanted his job back
To me it is ALL about having guns and ammo freely available.
Having a gun gives you a feeling of mortal power
America has had 23 amendments to their constition, but no President will ever be allowed to restrict guns.
In same year when UK had 69 killed in UK by guns over 9000 killed by guns in US.
If UK cops arrested people for such petty things our legal system would collapse.
And as for the two cops murdered in Dallas, whilst I do not approve of such action I understand it and I expect we will see more of it until the US grasps the nettle and deals with the BLACK MURDER BY COP issue it clearly has.
Policing can be nasty and dangerous work. They tend not to interact much with the top 99% of orderly and civilized people, and the bottom 1% can be random, unpredictable and dangerous.
It can be indeed.
In this case you have someone declaring ahead of time that they have a Concealed Carry Firearm in the vehicle. You hopefully knew this already because you'd run the license plates through your data terminal before you even got out your cruiser.
The combination of knowing this person has a CCW license, and them freely declaring it to you tells you they are a fundamentally law-abiding individual, and moreover, if they had any intention of shooting you, they'd have likely already done it.
We have now had multiple cases where US LE Officers have requested a driver produce their license and have opened fire as they reached for it - in one case shooting an individual in the back as they reached into their car (Tony Martin got murder for that. Someone with their back to you is not a threat. They can become a threat very quickly, but if you're shooting someone in the back then you need an exceptional reason why).
This smacks of Scenario Fulfilment, which is a symptom of poor quality training. The officer has identified that they might be reaching for a firearm and in every such training simulation has ended up having to discharge their firearm, thus they get tunnel vision and start playing out their training even when reality diverges from training.
All that said, I do find it odd that in a country with such an apparent problem with firearm violence that most Police Uniforms do not include some level of body armour as standard. In the UK, the Met Vest provides protection from stabbing and limited ballistic protection even for non-Firearm Officers. Perhaps officers would be a little less trigger-happy if they were a little less exposed (either with a uniform met-vest or an under-shirt covert vest).
To many American PD are nothing more than miniature Stasis whose primary function is to harass any and all citizens. And they have special fondness for any and all minorities. If anyone gets uppity its time to show them who is boss by using them for much needed target practice.
"Perhaps it was foolish to rely on a faceless media-destroying corporation like Facebook to spread the word and images of injustice, corruption and tyranny. Perhaps we really are living in a Philip K Dick-style dystopia where information is suppressed at the touch of a mousepad but we are too afraid to admit it."
Interesting things about this video are the way the Officer realises he is screwed and tries to pretend he asked the guy about weapon and the woman immediately corrects him to say no sir you asked him to produce ID and Insurance.
The other thing is the way they hold a gun on her, armed with a mobile phone.
I have worked for 3 Amercan companies and spend some time living over there, they may not like it to be mentioned but they are racist.
I saw glass ceilings for black people in 2 companies and one was openly racist.
The way they remove the vote from ex cons means that all Police have to do is arrest someone for repeated dope use and they lose voting rights forever.
The way the Police behave in America is SO different from the UK, in the US it is all about power and control rather than Law and Order.
In the UK I have always felt the Police work for all citizens, in the US I saw them as a very dangerous bunch of facist thugs where unlawful killing was just tolerated.
I hope America has some sort of new law to stop this murder of black males, the list is now getting very long, the most tragic of which for me was the murder of Eric Garner where the whole event was filmed and after being given a banned and lethal choke hold by a police officer, he is handcuffed while saying a plethora of times he can't breathe and left to DIE.
Excellent point, the proportion of Europeans shot by terrorists, and bad guys being killed by the police in Europe is insane.
European cops never kill terrorists, granting them free access with guns in our capitals and airports. What is funny when people start reacting to bad news from America is like they have the impression USA is a country having the size of Belgium or so. Maybe as info on the side: USA has 323 million inhabitants, it is so big that any European country would be hard to find if it was moved to US soil.
Roj Blake asked "How many Americans have been killed by terrorists this year? Less than 50 is my guess."
That depends on what you mean by "terrorists". If you mean armed gangs who perform mindless acts of random murder with no discernable purpose other than to kill some people and make the other ones scared and traumatised (which seems like a pretty fair working definition of terrorism to me), then the answer is 506 and counting.
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