back to article Microsoft releases cross-platform .NET Core 1.0 at Linux event

Microsoft has announced the release of .NET Core 1.0 and ASP.NET Core 1.0, the open source, cross-platform fork of the .NET Framework, letting people know at the Red Hat DevNation summit in San Francisco. "This makes Red Hat the only commercial Linux distribution to feature full, enterprise-grade support for .NET," said Red …

  1. HmmmYes Silver badge

    To be honest, I wonder if a lot of MS software is ready for the Windows I platforms I use.

    Some is good - but expensive.

    Some is WTF?

    And some is just absent, missing. MS were so good at putting competitors utilities out of business most 3rd party system products dont touch MS.

    1. bombastic bob Silver badge

      Is Microsoft ready for LINUX ???

      "To be honest, I wonder if a lot of MS software is ready for the Windows I platforms I use."

      Or, the corollary: Is Microsoft ready for LINUX ???

      Red Hat may 'support them' but I think they'll support *ANYTHING* (and should, within reason).

      But all ".Not" will become is Micro-shaft's CONTROL over EVERYTHING, an "uber alles" move In My Bombastic Opinion.

      wxWidgets, GTK, Qt, and even JAVA make for better cross platform development than ".Not". Microsoft is just flailing.

      I've been working on my own cross-platform dev kit for quite some time - yeah, slow going - and I've seen others besides the ones I already mentioned, so it's not like they're the ONLY GAME IN TOWN, but they want people to *THINK* they are. My personal pref (other than my own, which is incomplete) would be wxWidgets, because the translation from an MFC/C++ windows application is pretty straightforward (ok NOT trivial, but it's somewhat 'procedural' once you get started).

      1. your handle is already taken

        Re: Is Microsoft ready for LINUX ???

        How old are you? 9 years old?

      2. Alan Bourke

        Re: Is Microsoft ready for LINUX ???

        "wxWidgets, GTK, Qt, and even JAVA make for better cross platform development than ".Not""

        > snort <

        Ahahaha. Ah man.

  2. kryptylomese

    It will be interesting to see if businesses use it or not due to deterioration of trust they have for Microsoft software that historically has been unreliable.

    1. TonyJ Silver badge

      "...It will be interesting to see if businesses use it or not due to deterioration of trust they have for Microsoft software that historically has been unreliable..."

      Probably not, for a few reasons: firstly, lots of Linux adopters only remember unreliable Microsoft software that caused as many problems (if not more) than it fixed and these same people hold onto this perception despite generally having had nothing to do with more modern MS software.

      Secondly, they remember the old Embrace, Extend, Extinguish approach to other technologies.

      And finally - and possibly more damaging than any of that - this data slurping, Windows 10-forcing, behaviour that MS are involved in. That has probably done more to set their reputation back a decade plus than anything before it.

      I'd suggest they need to try and get their own house in order before they try to foist their technology onto the neighbours.

      1. Marcelo Rodrigues
        Mushroom

        "Secondly, they remember the old Embrace, Extend, Extinguish approach to other technologies."

        Damn right I remember this one. And I will not forget it either, mark my words.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Sod that.

          I can _never_ forgive Microsoft for releasing Outlook Express with a default mode of Pwn Me that totally shat on the ignorant consumers of its monopoly.

        2. bombastic bob Silver badge

          Embrace, Extend, Extinguish...

          "Secondly, they remember the old Embrace, Extend, Extinguish approach to other technologies."

          yeah I should've remembered that. thanks for the reminder, all who've mentioned it and commented on it. Not as much 'uber alles' as EMBRACE, EXTEND, EXTINGUISH

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      @Krypty

      Well, trust is one thing but I think there's even a more compelling reason: Mono. Mono and mod-mono have been around for ages now and although there are still a few quirks here and there it's pretty robust and stable in the overall.

      So on one hand you have a similar (better known?) product which has already proven itself (and works very well with most popular webservers) while on the other you have this new and unknown product which might have plenty of bugs in it as well.

  3. croaker
    FAIL

    Dear software developers...

    Just so you know and before you start work, there's a cat in hell's chance of me using any of your code on my linux boxes if MS's .Net libraries have been used to develop your software.

    There's plenty of proper open source enterprise qualities libraries out there. Use them if you want me to use your software.

    1. FIA

      Re: Dear software developers...

      Cheers for the heads up. It's a good job we're still in the planning stage.

      Mind you the project as a whole has currently been put on hold whilst we all scrabble around trying to fix this Y2K issue. (I'm not convinced it'll come to anything but the 'higher ups' are quite worried about it).

    2. sabroni Silver badge

      Re: proper open source enterprise qualities libraries

      Ah, proper open source, as opposed to what? Is the source code of the MS stuff not available? Is it under a licence you don't like?

      1. sed gawk Bronze badge

        Re: proper open source enterprise qualities libraries

        Proper Open Source:

        J Random User, is as empowered to make changes to the software as the original author.

        J Random User, may use the software as provided without fear of patent infringement.

        All tools required to go from bare metal to deployed artifact are available in source form to J Random User.

        A well specified reference implementation is available.

        1. This post has been deleted by its author

        2. sabroni Silver badge

          Re: A well specified reference implementation is available.

          Where?

          And you're sure it says: All tools required to go from bare metal to deployed artefact are available in source form to J Random User.

          So Libre Office isn't Open Source because I can run it on Windows? Or Libre Office is Open Source because I can run it on Linux?

          1. sed gawk Bronze badge

            Re: A well specified reference implementation is available.

            LibreOffice implements the ODF specification found here https://docs.oasis-open.org/office/v1.2/cs01/OpenDocument-v1.2-cs01-part3.html

            LibreOffice is mostly Java with some C, So toolchain is available from source, e.g. openjdk/ant/maven GCC/make etc.

            I made no mention of Linux or Windows, but LibreOffice counts in my book, why would think it doesn't?

            1. sabroni Silver badge

              Re: why would think it doesn't

              Because I wasn't sure what "All tools required to go from bare metal to deployed artefact" meant. I inferred it meant that the deployment environment must also be open source, when what you meant was that the compiler needs to be open source (which makes perfect sense, how else can you guarantee that what comes out the end is based on what went in?)

              So what's in question here is the build process for these .Net artefacts. The article isn't 100% clear but it seems to indicate that you can build on Linux, but it doesn't say explicitly that the build tool chain is Open Source. Looking on GitHub though (https://github.com/Microsoft/dotnet/blob/master/README.md) it looks like the compiler (Roslyn) is up there, so I guess this does count as "proper" Open Source.

              1. sed gawk Bronze badge

                Re: why would think it doesn't

                Someone upthread asked what was "proper open source", I offered an opinion deliberately refraining from an .NET view, as I'm a *nix guy and I'm blissfully ignorant of the .NET build ecosystem.

                1. sabroni Silver badge
                  Thumb Up

                  Re: I offered an opinion

                  Much appreciated!

  4. Tim 11

    Don't forget system.web.dll

    In addition to not including web forms, I presume that .Net core it doesn't include system.web, which you almost certainly depend on unless you've been very careful to avoid it

  5. Bucky 2

    What I just read

    Q: Can I move my Windows-deployed .NET sites to Linux?

    A: Not really. You'd effectively have to rewrite the whole thing.

    Q: Could I move Linux-deployed .NET sites to Windows?

    A:

    1. P. Lee Silver badge
      Devil

      Re: What I just read

      "Just wait until .net on linux becomes a second and third class citizen - after only three years I will bend their will with slight incompatibilities and their cloud apps will be MINE! Mwahahaha!"

      Yeah, no thanks. It isn't just about the FLOSS license for .Net, its whether anyone else is doing any development and if any of the dependencies will support thing in the long term. If you want to develop for Android for example, you can see where that is going and you know Google's business model and how they are likely to act based on their history. Ditto MS.

      When "real" FLOSS is no longer supported, it at least hangs around for as long as you want it. Proprietary vendors bearing clouds tend to remove the facilities to force you to buy new stuff or just because they are busy chasing another unicorn.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    If you port to a Linux cloud...

    ... it doesn't need to be a Microsoft cloud.

    What sustained the MS dev tools biz was deployment on Windows - there are reasons to deploy on Windows and not Linux. Remove Windows from the equation, and you ask yourself why you should use Microsoft dev tools, and not what is more common and with better support on Linux (most of which also runs on Windows, if you need it).

    "Cloud first" may mean "Windows last" - last as in the "last one". Nadella & C. are committing a company suicide.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: why you should use Microsoft dev tools

      Because Visual Studio is a an excellent development environment? What's the open source alternative now?

      I had to use Eclipse for a while in my last job (Nokia specific dev environment, so a good few years ago) and it was unbelievably crap compared to VS.

      1. kryptylomese

        Re: why you should use Microsoft dev tools

        http://www.monodevelop.com/

      2. bombastic bob Silver badge

        Re: why you should use Microsoft dev tools

        "Because Visual Studio is a an excellent development environment? What's the open source alternative now?"

        I'm actually working on one. OK it's slow going, and it's pre-alpha, but it wouldn't take a really long time to find considering it's on github and sourceforge and has my 'handle' associated with it.

        (proper funding might speed up the process, otherwise it's 'when I have time')

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: why you should use Microsoft dev tools

        I do my Linux development on Linux, and Windows development on Windows. VS may be better than most Linux IDEs (yet you may need a paid version for non trivial applications'), but in my experience 'cross developing' leads to more issues than advantages. Remote debugging has often quirks as well. With VMs, there's little need of using just one platform to work on, until you're someone who feels uncomfortable outside his main OS. Also, you don't need to wait for MS to catch up.

        Eclipse while the most known is not the best. Depending on what language you use, there are better ones.

        1. bombastic bob Silver badge

          Re: why you should use Microsoft dev tools

          "you may need a paid version for non trivial applications"

          like Qt maybe? I haven't used their IDE (it might be pretty good). I've messed with the toolkit on occasion, though.

          The _ONE_ feature in MS dev tools that I _REALLY_ like, which seems absent everywhere else, is "virtual space". (yes, my own tool will prominently have that, and no need to be able to shut it off, either).

          Seeing MS trying to wedge ".Not" into the Linux world bugs me. I've successfully written 'dual source' applications using a combination of wxWidgets and MFC. It was mostly to verify it COULD be done, but also a practical way of making it happen.

          The _LACK_ of success of Mono should've been the death of ".Not" on Linux. Apparently, like with the Windows "Ape" (8.x) 'migration of suck' (and making it worse) to Win-10-nic, Microsoft can't read the writing on the wall. They just push forward over the cliff, ANYWAY, _in_ _spite_ of the obvious warnings, because, Microsoft.

          (fanboi 'thumb downs' will be laughed at, again)

          1. sabroni Silver badge

            Re: Seeing MS trying to wedge ".Not" into the Linux world bugs me.

            ".Not". Priceless. You OPEN sourcers are _SO_ funny!

            I bet your IDE will be loads better THAN Visual Studio!! Can't _WAIT_ to start using it!!

            Is it case sensitive?

      4. Justin Clift

        Re: why you should use Microsoft dev tools

        Because Visual Studio is a an excellent development environment? What's the open source alternative now?

        As a data point Qt Creator seems reasonable, if you're into C/C++ and Qt.

        It's not fantastic but it gets the job done reasonably efficiently.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: why you should use Microsoft dev tools

          So, basically what I'm hearing is you should use Microsoft dev tools because there are the best?

          There's a "reasonably efficient" IDE for C/C++ (Eww, buffer overflow anyone?), bombastic bob is working on something of his own, monodevelop was linked to with no comment and 3 downvotes, and another AC claims "Eclipse while the most known is not the best. Depending on what language you use, there are better ones." That statement would have more credibility if there was a list of names at the end....

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: why you should use Microsoft dev tools

            So there is no-one on here who can genuinely recommend an Open Source IDE that is anywhere near as good as Visual Studio? Yet you're happy to downvote me for asking?

            How irrational.

  7. Walter Bishop Silver badge
    Facepalm

    Microsoft patent protected Linux ©

    "Red Hat and Microsoft have agreed to a limited patent arrangement .. The heart of the arrangement is a patent standstill that provides that neither company will pursue a patent lawsuit or claim against the other or its customers, while we are partnering.

    (a) Have Red Hat sign a patent agreement, in the process get Microsoft patented claims partly validated.

    (b) Microsofts appearance at an Open Source conference partly validates their patent claims over 'Linux'.

    (c) What does Red Hat get out for it?

    (d) Does anyone remember Novell SuSE Linux?

    1. Baldy50

      Re: Microsoft patent protected Linux ©

      Don't know what the future holds but you might wake up one day and get a friend or family member asking if you can have a look at their lappy cos their update looks a bit strange.

      On scrutiny find It's using an EXT4 file partition and is called WINIX 10.2.3 or WILUX 10.2.3, already nicked multiple desktops and rolling update from the open source world in W10.

      Redmond might have come to the conclusion that their OS's are a bag of shite and just nick a Linux distro, make a new desktop and It'd make a lot of money for the big software makers getting to charge for their new version running on the latest Windose.

      In my dreams/nightmares.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "New .NET Core workloads can now be easily moved from a Windows Server environment to Red Hat Enterprise Linux"

    God knows why anyone would want to though. It works well on Windows and many of the Windows options (such as clustering and integrated security features) are miles ahead of anything on Linux.

    I assume this is like the Linux SQL Server option - pandering to developers who want to develop on *Nix, but production will mostly run on Windows.

    1. boltar Silver badge

      "many of the Windows options (such as clustering and integrated security features) are miles ahead of anything on Linux."

      I don't know what you're smoking but I don't want any of it. You do realise most of the worlds top supercomputers are made up of clustered linux blade servers? Oh , you didn't. Well there you go, you learn something new every day.

      1. kryptylomese

        "The Anonymous coward" must be trolling.

        Linux is WAY ahead of anything Microsoft with regards to Enterprise solutions especially from a resilience point of view and uptime (you can configure a Linux box so that EVERYTHING can be updated live - you never need to reboot it!)

        I may have mentioned this before but more than 60% of Azure is Linux and it is growing.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          "may have mentioned this before but more than 60% of Azure is Linux "

          FYI - 100% of Azure hosts run on Windows Nano server as a GUI-less minimised Windows install + Hyper-V services.

          In terms of VMs, according to Microsoft, ~ 20% of Azure VMs run Linux. We just moved some legacy *Nix stuff there so we have joined that club.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          >>> more than 60% of Azure is Linux and it is growing.

          Nice trolling. Actually it's 60% of the IMAGES in the Azure marketplace are Linux based, which is not 60% of Azure. Presumably because you need so many flavours of the same stuff to get it to do what you actually want - unlike with Windows.

          See http://openness.microsoft.com/blog/2016/02/17/red-hat-azure/

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            "Presumably..."

            Yeah, don't let your ignorance get in the way there. I'd say it's because tons of useful web apps that don't require running on Windows are a damn sight easier to install and administer on 'nix. For starters there's no need to track licensing and much cheaper to scale, so it's almost a no-brainer.

            I don't know of a sysadmin in the land who finds running cross-platform apps on Windows except for a few who haven't tried anything else.

            Plus there's loads of choice for the underlying OS depending on your requirements. Most of the are much smaller than a Windows instance alone too, even Core.

    2. bombastic bob Silver badge

      "New .NET Core workloads can now be easily moved from a Windows Server environment to Red Hat Enterprise Linux"

      "God knows why anyone would want to though."

      perhaps they should migrate to a NON-'.Not' solution INSTEAD. might be less effort.

    3. P. Lee Silver badge

      >>"New .NET Core workloads can now be easily moved from a Windows Server environment to Red Hat Enterprise Linux"

      >God knows why anyone would want to though.

      Licensing.

      MS knows that its licenses costs scare off cloud-provider-services who have no desire to track licenses on deployments or cramp their instance spin-ups.

      MS also knows that if all the cloud devs ditch them, they'll be left with very little at the server end.

      But the sentiment is correct. You really wouldn't do this. If you're MS-based product isn't going to make you money on an MS-hosted platform, you need to re-think your plans.

  9. Tim99 Silver badge
    Devil

    Oh good

    Red Hat Systemd; and Microsoft .NET together - What could possible go wrong?

    1. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Facepalm

      Re: Oh good

      "Red Hat Systemd; and Microsoft .NET together - What could possible go wrong?"

      wait... " Microsoft ® SystemD ©®☭™ "

      and patent encumberances... oh my

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "More a rewrite instead of a migration"...

    Translation: It sucks right now but the good news is... it still slurps!... So this lets M$ into the Linux prom (stops them being booted out of non-M$-platform events anyway), and gives them bragging rights & marketing creep... Is that a fair assessment?

    ....."If you have a 10-year-old application that your company relies on, we don't recommend attempting to port it to ASP.NET Core... The problem is the amount of porting work needed to work around missing APIs and Windows dependencies."

    ...."Note that the ASP.NET Web Forms framework is not implemented, but only the more recent ASP.NET MVC and Web API. Even if your application is already ASP.NET MVC, porting will be more "a rewrite instead of a migration,"

    ....."There are caveats. Only a subset of the .NET Framework is included, essentially for console or web applications."

    ....."The tooling both for Visual Studio and the command line is still in preview, with full release expected with version 1.1 of .NET Core towards the end of 2016. Visual Basic is not supported for ASP.NET Core, and the SignalR real-time communication framework is not yet done."

    ...."In some scenarios though, you can only use .NET Core. This includes the forthcoming Windows Server 2016 Nano Server, a cut-down server designed for cloud deployments and microservices."

    ...."This is good work, but areas of confusion along with porting challenges will slow its adoption."

    ...."The first time you run the command-line tools, Microsoft warns that it is collecting telemetry... No personal data or code is collected though, according to".... ???

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Is that a fair assessment?

      Yeah, "£350m for the NHS" fair, ie. fair from one extremely narrow point of view.

      (to be honest, tldr, read one freetard AC anti-M$ rant, read 'em all......)

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        "Read one freetard AC anti-M$ rant, read 'em all"......

        I believe that's supposed to say:

        'Read one freetard AC M$ fanboy, read em all' :)

  11. PeteA
    Happy

    A good thing

    Waiting for the downvotes, but personally I think this is a really good thing and an important step forward. The dotnet runtime / C# language combination is both excellent and widely used in "the enterprise" with developers being (relatively) easy to obtain. Unfortunately, the current Windows-only limitation prevents us from being able to use Linux and instead we have to waste resources (in all senses) with Windows servers. I'd personally love to get shot of the Windows boxes with all their attendant headaches in exchange for the reliability and simplicity of my home [Linux-and-macOS] network!

    Dotnet core is as "truly open source" as anything else - it uses an EFF-approved licence, is developed on github (https://github.com/dotnet/core) and they accept pull requests, so what more do you want?

    Time will tell, and I have no intention of being a bleeding-edge adopter for "real world" workloads, but I suspect (and really hope) that .NET-core-on-Linux will gain a lot of traction over the next few years and become one of the preferred stacks.

    1. sabroni Silver badge
      Happy

      Re: so what more do you want?

      For it not be MS, obviously!

  12. Inachu

    DOT NET should die off when they lost against SUN with their case regarding Java.

    Dot Net is and will forever be the nasty red headed inbred child of stolen code.

    The entire establishment based on .NET should be abolished.

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