back to article Tech firms reel from Leave's Brexit win

Tech firms are reeling at British voters’ decision to leave the single European market. Firms are rattled as Gartner has forecast that Britain’s tech buyers will now stop spending in 2016 and 2017, turning earlier growth numbers negative. Also of concern, hiring of EU workers, uncertainty over VAT levels and possible new …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Down

    Really?

    Give it a month or two, the markets will settle down, sterling will strengthen again, people will exit gold, Europeans will reinvest in our economy and it'll be business as usual. I can't think of a single time that Gartner has been remotely right about anything, so I'm not inclined to start believing them now. Quite the opposite, in fact.

    Postponing an order with a large FX exposure right now is thoroughly prudent. Cancelling all foreign expenditure for the next two years would be just plain stupid. Still, there is a high degree of stupidity to be had, mostly in the consulting industry.

    1. The Godfather

      Re: Really?

      Do us a favour... Come back and revisit this post in a couple of years.....

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Really?

        ...and you too. If you're still viable.

        1. JEDIDIAH
          Linux

          Re: Really?

          I agree that all of these hysterics are just nonsense. While the current market corrections are due to a general level of conservatism and risk adversity, that same conservatism will push everyone away from doing anything too stupid. The people with the money want the status quo maintained as much as possible. This will not be an "ugly divorce". The elites don't want it to impact their pocketbook.

          The fear mongering is just people pushing their personal agenda.

          1. Manolo

            Re: Really?

            "This will not be an "ugly divorce". The elites don't want it to impact their pocketbook."

            I hope you are right, but I am not entirely sure about that. The fear is that if the UK gets to good a deal in leaving (in beneficial trade deals for instance) it will encourage other EU countries to seek an exit too. Already a majority of the Dutch wants a referendum on a Nexit, with 48% wanting out, 42% in, the rest undecided.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Really?

              I think you are under the mistaken belief that politicians are actually in charge - their paymasters in Big Business will ensure that no-one does anything stupid to prevent them from making money.

              It is in the best interests of all to ensure that nothing interrupts the flow of money between the EU and the UK.

              It is true that the UK's exit from the EU will be seen as an encouragement though, as even some Germans are a little envious that we made our escape.

              If the EU wanted us to stay so badly, then they should have given Mr Chamberlain - sorry, Mr Cameron - a better deal when negotiating.

              1. Richard 12 Silver badge

                Re: Really?

                Why do you think Big Business would give a shit about the UK?

                If you subscribe to that view of business, then logically, they'll simply leave and let the UK go to hell. No skin off their nose.

              2. Lars Silver badge
                Thumb Down

                Re: Really?

                "Cameron - a better deal when negotiating." Why would the EU give the UK a better deal than for other EU countries. Imagine they gave France a better deal than the UK has, wow, what a noise that would create in the UK. Cameron probably got a bit more than he was able to sell in the UK.

                Are you spoiled prats living in the past.

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: Really?

                  Imagine? And Greece didn't get a better deal to stay?

          2. John Sanders

            Re: Really?

            Spot on! we live in 2016 not 1980, does Spain want to lose the UK as a customer for their produce? does Italy? This is just an example though it is the same with the rest of the EU.

            I'm sure that the EU will implode sooner or later (it happens to any entity that tries to plan the economy) and when that happens there will be a new agreement to go back to some form of the old common market, which the EU should have always been and nothing else.

            1. TeeCee Gold badge

              Re: Really?

              The EU doesn't give a rat's arse about Spain. Germany on the other hand......

              If you look at how much DE sells here and compare that to the opposite direction, they really would be cutting off their nose to spite their face by getting into a trade spat.

              As the EU commission's answer to German industry saying "Jump" is invariably "Yessir, how high?", the outcome here is a foregone conclusion.

              1. jbrias

                Re: Really?

                Jump! How high? Gee, I was about to say the same thing about the UK with respect to the US.

          3. Paul Shirley

            Re: Really?

            Elites pushing their personal agenda is how we got into this mess and they're still there nicely set up to enrich themselves at our expense. I rarely agree with politician but Cameron was right about"Boris does what's good for Boris"

          4. David 138

            Re: Really?

            We will probably end up back in Europe with a "Trade Deal" lots of restrictions and no power to tell them to bugger off. If we had waited a couple of years we would have probably ended up with the same result except we would have been up front rather than in the boot.

          5. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Really?

            >>"The elites don't want it to impact their pocketbook."

            True, but they don't care if it impacts your pocket book. At a minimum the short term uncertainty will reduce GDP slightly and as you say it won't come out of the "elites" pockets.

    2. Oh Homer
      Alien

      "where this leaves us in Britain"

      Leaving, mostly, and taking our skills with us.

      Auf wiedersehen, pets.

      1. Disk0
        Thumb Up

        Re: "where this leaves us in Britain"

        Take ball, go home, complain that you're no longer part of the game, wonder why nobody else gives a toss.

    3. John Sanders
      Holmes

      Re: Really?

      I remember reading in 1992 that the UK was "doomed! doomed I say!" for not getting the Euro. The UK was to go down in flames within 2-3 years. It was all over the press at the time.

      So no, the earth will still spin and the UK will do fine without Europe, the UK is not great because of the EU, it is great because the people in it is great, it is their hard work that make the UK possible, not some self serving bureaucratic monster in Brussels.

      Freedom has a cost and it is always scary at first, but surely pays lots of big dividends, a life of servitude is a life where you can not decide what's best for you.

      1. rd232

        Re: Really?

        "I remember reading in 1992 that the UK was "doomed! doomed I say!" for not getting the Euro."

        Well if you do, it's a false memory.

    4. Lars Silver badge
      Thumb Down

      Re: Really?

      I agree with not believing everything Gartner writes and predicts but believing that the opposite is the truth I would find equally silly. The dice is cast, and now as fast forward as possible.

    5. ckm5

      That giant sucking sound...

      ... is the sound of all the talent & capital leaving the UK to work in places with markets that actually matter.

      If you think any large business cares about an isolated market of 55 million, you would be sadly mistaken. It's fun to be delusional, then reality bites.

      1. russsh

        Re: That giant sucking sound...

        No, the world's fifth largest (national) economy, not at all worth targeting!

      2. russsh

        Re: That giant sucking sound...

        No, the world's fifth largest (national) economy, not at all worth getting out of bed for.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: That giant sucking sound...

          Err ... sixth now, and dropping ...

      3. russsh

        Re: That giant sucking sound...

        Only the world's fifth largest (national) economy, not at all worth getting out of bed for.

      4. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: That giant sucking sound...

        So if this is purely about being in Europe then why did they choose to base themselves in England instead of other parts of Europe at the time when we were in the EU? There's more to that choice than merely being in Europe. America isn't in Europe, China isn't in Europe, Japan isn't in Europe, etc. They all trade with Europe. We will too.

        1. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

          Re: That giant sucking sound...

          "There's more to that choice than merely being in Europe. America isn't in Europe, China isn't in Europe, Japan isn't in Europe, etc. "

          Well, if you are looking to establish yourself in the large EU market, you aren't very likely to choose the UK now, are you?

    6. TeeCee Gold badge

      Re: Really?

      Spot on. What you're seeing right now is the speculators filling their boots. This is courtesy of the FUD from the remain camp supplying enough by way of market nervousness to make market manipulation easy.

  2. boltar Silver badge

    " with a third of its staff in the UK from overseas"

    I think this says it all. Big business doesn't give a damn about the UK , all its worried about is no more cheap foreign labour. It might actually have to hire brits on decent wages and give them training instead of trawling the EU for anyone suitable. Quelle Horreur!

    1. petur
      Meh

      Re: " with a third of its staff in the UK from overseas"

      I'm not sure that 'cheap' is the point for R&D. More 'competent'.

      I wouldn't be surprised that some of these companies just close doors and relocate, or reduce the office to a mere 'presence'.

      And for cheap hires, I'd say the reason to relocate to the EU is even stronger...

    2. BoldMan

      Re: " with a third of its staff in the UK from overseas"

      Its not cheap EU imports we need to worry about its Indian imports. The only time I've been made redundant in the IT industry was due to outsourcing to India, not the EU.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: " with a third of its staff in the UK from overseas"

        One of the BREXIT campaigners, Employment Minister Priti Patel, said that leaving the EU would mean being able to recruit more people from the Indian subcontinent.

        http://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/brexit-promises-massive-boost-to-india-uk-relations-minister-priti-patel/story-UaYX6DMnHxUW2QipS537cK.html

        1. graeme leggett

          Re: " with a third of its staff in the UK from overseas"

          And there was I thinking the Brexit was about trying to reduce immigration (even temporary). At least I'm sure I heard that somewhere recently.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: " with a third of its staff in the UK from overseas"

            It appears from the Hindustan newspaper article that Priti Patel wishes to reduce EU immigrants - but increase those from the Indian subcontinent.

            1. John Sanders
              Holmes

              Re: " with a third of its staff in the UK from overseas"

              "Priti Patel" does not get it, does he?

              1. Fibbles

                Re: " with a third of its staff in the UK from overseas"

                Priti is a woman's name...

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: " with a third of its staff in the UK from overseas"

                  John Sanders: ""Priti Patel" does not get it, does he?"

                  Fibbles: "Priti is a woman's name..."

                  Isn't it rather silly for him to have a woman's name then?

                  Joking aside... I couldn't have told you it was Patel until someone mentioned it above, but I do distinctly remember a pro-Brexiter of South Asian ancestry (in her case, Indian) who seemed to think that getting rid of all the EU immigrants would let us bring in more from the Commonwealth countries.

                  Of course. That's *exactly* what's going to happen. That's *exactly* the reason people wanted rid of all those EU immigrants. As soon as Britain is out of the EU they're going to say "Hurrah! Let's bring in more of our chums from the Indian subcontinent. We don't like people from Eastern Europe, and we don't like those darker-skinned swarms from Syria that Mr Farage warned us about, but we really do want lots of people from India. That sort of thing's very popular with us Little Englanders!"

                  Yep. That's *exactly* what was driving the anti-immigrant dynamic of the Brexit campaign.

                  Live by the anti-immigration sword, die by the anti-immigration sword. Hypocritical, self-interested *and* stupid. That's quite a feat.

                  Then again, maybe she isn't so stupid and she's hoping that once the EU is out of the picture, she and the rest of the right wing of the Tory party due to take over from Cameron will be able to do what they want once they're in power.

          2. TheOtherHobbes

            Re: " with a third of its staff in the UK from overseas"

            >And there was I thinking the Brexit was about trying to reduce immigration.

            Now that you mention it, that may have been a lie.

            Who'd have expected that, eh?

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Alfresco Software, Britain’s most successful open-source technology firm

              Who?

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Facepalm

          Re: " with a third of its staff in the UK from overseas"

          Oh special, I can see Disney and SCE on speed dial.

        3. HAL-9000

          Re: " with a third of its staff in the UK from overseas"

          and from the same publication a different view. Plus more good news for our London centric economy. May I suggest you keep wearing those rose tinted spectacles.

    3. John Sanders

      Re: " with a third of its staff in the UK from overseas"

      That's what this is about.

      Big business love a servile and desperate underclass who will work for slavery wages, no matter the long term social cost to the host country.

      1. ckm5

        Re: " with a third of its staff in the UK from overseas"

        Yes, because tech companies are famous for paying 'slavery wages'. Sigh.

    4. ckm5

      Re: " with a third of its staff in the UK from overseas"

      What 'brits'? Do you seriously think ANY big business wouldn't much rather a native English speaker rather than having to train people in a language foreign to them?

      The actual reality is that, in some verticals like agriculture, no 'locals' want the jobs at the wages businesses can afford to pay. And in other verticals (like healthcare), there simply aren't enough people to fill the vacancies.

      And, before you say, 'just raise the wages' - are you prepared to actually pay 3x or 4x what you do now for basic things?

      1. Domquark

        Re: " with a third of its staff in the UK from overseas"

        "And, before you say, 'just raise the wages' - are you prepared to actually pay 3x or 4x what you do now for basic things?"

        Well, it happens. I, like many on here, have worked as a contractor through an agency. That agency charges the company a damn sight more for my time, than they do for my fully employed colleague.

        Look at the Nation Health Service. How many nurses are agency staff? Those agencies charge a lot more than a normal wage.

        So yes, companies and institutions will, do and can pay over the top wages.

        1. Naughtyhorse

          Re: " with a third of its staff in the UK from overseas"

          Health service?

          what a great example of a vibrant healthy business....

          due in no small part to being _constrained_ to operate with a significant proportion of their frontline staff being contractors.

          If they were in the private sector (checks watch) they would ALL have gone bust years ago.

          1. sabroni Silver badge

            Re: what a great example of a vibrant healthy business....

            The NHS isn't a business, it doesn't generate any revenue. No matter how efficient you make it it won't turn a profit.....

      2. Matt Bryant Silver badge

        Re: ckm5 Re: " with a third of its staff in the UK from overseas"

        "....The actual reality is that, in some verticals like agriculture, no 'locals' want the jobs at the wages businesses can afford to pay...." I had a friend who ran a small landscaping business in the Thames Valley up until the mid-90s. At that point, she could not afford to pay someone the hourly rate they wanted to mow a lawn and still meet the price-point being offered by large national companies. The locals effectively priced themselves out of the labour market. So she closed the business and went into IT. Five years ago she had another look, thinking that the influx of cheaper immigrants might have brought costs down to where it was competitive again, but she soon found that even the immigrants wanted too high an hourly wage.

  3. Matthew Smith

    Devops

    I heard a rumour that there was an EU regulation that all IT staff would have to be retrained to use Devops. Thank goodness thats not going to happen now.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Devops

      Never mind all that. Tell us about Manic Miner...

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Devops

      Yep. The BOFH caught wind of that, realised the implications and *clicketty* updated a few election returns, *kzerrt* stunned a few remainders, and *clicketty* induced a cloud dropout (lidderally) that flooded London at an inopportune moment.

      Turns out that operations can be run to prevent unwelcome developments.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Bah

    As a currently unemployed contractor finding the chances are dwindling...

    Fuck.

    1. Yugguy

      Re: Bah

      Are you anywhere near Cov son, cos we are recruiting loads, all of them seemingly Indian. I can only conclude UK contractors don't actually want the work.

      1. asdf Silver badge

        Re: Bah

        >I can only conclude UK contractors don't actually want the work.

        If you were in the US I would say it is probably due to the only an H1B would take this low wage aspect.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      WTF?

      Re: Bah

      I'm constantly sent info on contract jobs (not interested as I'm a permie) and those I know who did switch to the dark side don't seem to have any problem.

      There doesn't seem to be a shortage of positions, maybe it's you?

    3. MrXavia

      Re: Bah

      As a UK contractor, I find the market continually buoyant, longest period without a contract for the last 5 years was 2 months...

    4. I'm Brian and so's my wife

      Re: Bah

      What's your tech profile & where are you looking?

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: Bah

        Implementing CRM systems for companies that now have to duplicate all their accounting and sales for their Eu and UK customers.

    5. SeanC4S

      Re: Bah

      Without EU regulations to get in the way you can work in a food processing factory for 14 hours a day, 7 days a week in exchange for not enough money to even house and fed yourself. Or would it be better to emigrate? But you are kind of limited now to the US and Australia.

  5. WraithCadmus
    Pint

    London Falling

    I just had my job opportunities halved at a stroke by a bunch of spiteful shits who don't realise the EU was protecting them from being run into the ground.

    EDIT: The thumbs down start already, but a lot of the areas that voted heavily for Exit are those were benefiting the most from the EU redevelopment funds. The reason they were getting those funds is because they were so staunchly for one party or the other they would always be passed over for the pork. At least the EU funds were (hopefully) awarded based on merit and how well you argued your case and not who you voted for.

    I am now going to have some beer and a cry

    1. boltar Silver badge

      Re: London Falling

      "I just had my job opportunities halved at a stroke "

      Really? Why's that then , do you work for EU funded quangos?

      "benefiting the most from the EU redevelopment funds."

      Ah, those would be the funds we send to brussels then get approx 40% back would it? How generous of them.

      "I am now going to have some beer and a cry"

      And people say real men are a dying breed. What could possibly give them that idea...

      1. BoldMan

        Re: London Falling

        ...and you naively believe that the funds we will no longer send to the EU will be deployed to help these areas and not line the pockets of more PFI managers and other hanger's on? We've already seen the backtracking of "more funds for the NHS" lie

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: London Falling

          How much was that 340 million a week? Did any of you really think that any single entity was going to get all of that? That will go into government coffers and distributed as needed not just to the NHS. Possibly the bigger problems are that every Nation need to retake control of its Federal Reserve equivalent, break up Corporations that are too big to fail, and nationalize sensitive industries.

      2. Lotaresco

        Re: London Falling

        Oh heavens, it's you.

        I would say for those of us that work across Europe job opportunities have not been halved they have been decimated. I don't know why you (and other Brexiters) get worked up about the EU membership fees, after all the £160m/week pales into insignificance against the £280bn the Brexiters splurged in two hours this morning.

        Good to see your winning personality remains as it ever was.

        1. boltar Silver badge

          Re: London Falling

          "I would say for those of us that work across Europe job opportunities have not been halved they have been decimated"

          Oh boo hoo. I care about workers in this country, not itinerants like yourself for whom this country apparently isn't good enough.

          "against the £280bn the Brexiters splurged in two hours this morning."

          Equating consolidated share price drops with actual money is the most cynical sort of conflation. Do try a bit harder, assuming you even tried at all and weren't just parroting what you read in The Guardian.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: London Falling

            Equating consolidated share price drops with actual money is the most cynical sort of conflation. Do try a bit harder, assuming you even tried at all and weren't just parroting what you read in The Guardian.

            That deserves a thousand up votes, but evidently the democracy-haters of the Grauniad classes are out in force today, whining that you and I have signed the death warrant of civilisation simply by saying that we wanted our sovereignty back.

            Rather amusing to see that po-faced SNP crone weeping that she wants another referendum, so that the Scots can have THEIR sovereignty back, simply in order to surrender it to Brussels. Braveheart, where are you?

            On the plus side of that, we English won't have to subsidise the Scots any more, AND without a base for Trident we won't be able to replace the pointless trinket, saving (according to the Graun) over £200bn. What's not to like? The Northern Irish can unite with the EU south, and that'll be another half a billion we'll be better off. And the Welsh can follow the Scots, but lets not wait for a referendum, just send them an email telling them they've been dis-united.

            1. TheOtherHobbes

              Re: London Falling

              >we wanted our sovereignty back.

              Which we're going to get by installing a prime minister no one voted for.

              And having what's left of the UK economy consigned to the footnotes on the balance sheets of other countries.

              Sovereignty? Why not demand the return of the Empire and compulsory bunting while you're at it?

              1. John Smith 19 Gold badge
                Unhappy

                "Why not demand the return of the Empire and compulsory bunting while you're at it?"

                You mean that's not what was being voted for?

                Consciously or not restarting the British Empire seemed to be exactly what quite a lot of people seemed to be voting for.

                I know, when you say it out loud it really does sound barking mad.

                Because it is.

            2. MrXavia

              Re: London Falling

              We have to have faith in our government(never trust those seeking power) to negotiate with Europe the right deal (unlikely to happen).

              What we need is a free trade agreement, no tariffs with any EEA member, and freedom of movement for work, that gives us the benefits of the Eu without the politics.

              Now i hope the EU mandate that any agreement requires us to remain signed up the the European Court of human rights.

              But I would have preferred to stay in the EU,but we must work with what we have.

              Butif European dries up in it, I can charge more to the remaining companies who need my skills!

              1. John Sanders
                Thumb Up

                Re: London Falling

                We need the common market, but not only we but all of Europe, and that's it, no more mega-european-government elite serving shenanigans.

              2. Paul Shirley

                Re: London Falling

                "What we need is a free trade agreement, no tariffs with any EEA member, and freedom of movement for work"

                Unlikely to be an option. Talking to drunken brexiters (ordinary working people not Eton trained profiteers) they predominantly wanted borders closed and specifically wanted to stop EU workers coming here. So focused on it that being told lies "didn't matter" and the suggestion they might also have been lied to about that, just brought blank expressions.

                I'm almost looking forward to how Boris and his merry crew of pirates talk their way out of this one when the working brexit voters notice the borders not slamming shut and no one being sent home.

            3. I'm Brian and so's my wife

              Re: London Falling

              No one has mentioned the reduced turnout in Scotland, only the percentage that voted in favour of the EU. One can only assume the remainder were too busy trying to score some skag or cheap lager.

            4. boltar Silver badge

              Re: London Falling

              "Rather amusing to see that po-faced SNP crone weeping that she wants another referendum, so that the Scots can have THEIR sovereignty back,

              Wee Jimmy Krankie also seems to have forgotten that her and the rest of her 1970s tribute act party no longer have a majority in Hollyrood. So even if the scottish government did have the power to call for another scottish referenum - it doesn't , that lies with westminster, she couldn't make that decision anyway without putting it to a vote.

              " simply in order to surrender it to Brussels. Braveheart, where are you?"

              The scottish economy is virtually non existent. > 50% of people are in public sector jobs, there's little big industry to speak of and the oil price is in the toilet. They'd never make the entry requirements for the EU. The only way they'd get in is through Greek style slight of hand and once they are in, well if they think Westminster was tough, wait until EU austery gets put in place. There'll be fried mars bars being dropped in shock throughout the country.

            5. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: London Falling

              Ledswinger: "And the Welsh can follow the Scots, but lets not wait for a referendum, just send them an email telling them they've been dis-united."

              Aaaaand..... you just gave away your true colours.

              The Welsh backed Brexit. Anyone who paid attention to the result knows this.

              The only question is whether you're simply (but blatantly) ignorant or whether- let's be honest here- you're really just using the whole thing as an excuse for some nationalistic pub bluster against anyone who isn't English- the fact the Welsh voted alongside their Little Englander chums not being relevant here.

              I suspect both, to be honest.

          2. This post has been deleted by a moderator

        2. Steve 114
          Headmaster

          Re: London Falling

          'Decimation' means reducing by 1 in 10. That's what they did to Roman legions who hadn't tried hard enough. See me.

          1. billium

            Re: London Falling

            upvoted you ... but decimation does sound bad!

          2. Nifty

            Re: London Falling

            'Decimation' has its root in 'removal of a tenth' but any dictionary will tell you that its modern meaning is to remove a substantial proportion.

          3. Lotaresco
            FAIL

            Re: London Falling

            'Decimation' means reducing by 1 in 10.

            And the reason you though I was using the term incorrectly was?

            I think it's a fair estimate, about a 10% drop in the use of English contractors, looking at the way my contracts across Europe have been divided. About 90% of the work has come from organisations who need an appropriately skilled native English speaker who are unlikely to be swayed by fact that a Brit is no longer an EU citizen. The remaining 10% from organisations that are only offering the work because they must give the job to an EU citizen. I think that's representative of EU jobs with only EU research centres and groups directly funded by the EU framework programme having a requirement to only employ EU citizens as contractors/staff.

            It will be a setback, especially if you're in the 10%, but not terminal.

            Nice to see someone being smug, pedantic and wrong all at once.

      3. H in The Hague

        Re: London Falling

        " 'and a cry' And people say real men are a dying breed. What could possibly give them that idea..."

        Boltar, what century or culture are you living in that you think men shouldn't admit to emotions?

        1. boltar Silver badge

          Re: London Falling

          "Boltar, what century or culture are you living in that you think men shouldn't admit to emotions?"

          Crying over the outcome of a democratic a vote? Jesus H. Man up you metrosexual babies.

          1. H in The Hague

            Re: London Falling

            "Man up you metrosexual babies."

            Excuse me, but I'm pretty sure it's us metrosexuals who are likely to be higher rate tax payers (and Remain voters) who are supporting the economically depressed Leave areas. And who might decide we would rather pay our taxes somewhere else (Canada looks quite attractive, though a bit chilly).

            (Incidentally, this metrosexual may earn a living from the computer keyboard but can also weld, forge, lay bricks, fell trees and sew slubby doupion silk on the bias. So, dear Boltar, what are your skills?)

            Hmm, that G&T was quite strong. Nurse, where are my pills?

          2. Naughtyhorse

            Re: fick godwin

            hitler was democratically elected in '33

            just sayin

        2. Matt Bryant Silver badge
          Facepalm

          Re: H in The Hague Re: London Falling

          "......what century or culture are you living in that you think men shouldn't admit to emotions?" There is a big difference between (a) collapsing melodramatically in an emotional mess, and (b) admitting your feelings about a non-optimal situation but still dealing with the problem. The former seems to be more the Continental male norm, whereas the latter - "dealing with it" - is more accepted in the UK as "manly".

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: H in The Hague London Falling

            @Matt Bryant on emotions lol. Might want to leave that discussion for someone capable of empathy.

      4. Rik Myslewski

        Re: London Falling

        "And people say real men are a dying breed. What could possibly give them that idea..."

        Ah yes, real men let twits with no understanding of economics, let alone international trade and regulatory subtleties kick them in their employment-chances bollocks without a complaint or a whimper.

        "Please, sir, may I have another? I'm a Real Man™!"

    2. chasil

      Re: London Falling

      This was an advisory referendum only, with no force of law. The United Kingdom is not obligated to leave the EU.

      Yes, a pro-separation change in government will soon take place. However, the more forcefully that the new government pushes for a full departure, the more forcefully Scotland and Northern Ireland will attempt to disentangle themselves from the United Kingdom.

      Northern Ireland in particular might see a real increase in sectarian violence if EU separation is not handled with great care, so internal security and continental policy will become even deeper-entwined. These forces will certainly blunt immediate impulses towards separation.

      The EU bureaucracy has allowed a large, hostile contingent to form in several European nations. Perhaps now an inward gaze, compelled by credible criticism, can form a more perfect union.

      1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: London Falling

        "The EU bureaucracy has allowed a large, hostile contingent to form in several European nations. Perhaps now an inward gaze, compelled by credible criticism, can form a more perfect union."

        It'll probably take a couple more exits before they start thinking "Could it be something we said?". After all, when you know you're right you tend to adjust reality to match your views.

    3. Michael Habel Silver badge

      Re: London Falling

      Salty tears are soo tasty!

      1. asdf Silver badge

        Re: London Falling

        >Salty tears are soo tasty

        Don't have a dog in this fight and could care less but I do enjoy repeatedly pressing the crouch button taunting. Upvote for you.

      2. DropBear Silver badge

        Re: London Falling

        Salty tears are soo tasty!

        Oh do get a grip. 1935 called, they want their newfangled memes back "dadio"...

    4. HAL-9000
      Pint

      Re: London Falling

      I too will be having a beer and a sob, being the best part of 50 years of age and today employed by a French corporation; redundancy seems inevitable followed by a long period on the scrap heap of humanity.

      Hoorraahh for brexit.

  6. DCFusor Silver badge

    Change is a chance for the agile and alert to beat the status quo. Carpe Diem.

    1. ecofeco Silver badge

      Not always.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      >Change is a chance for the agile and alert to beat the status quo.

      Unless you happened to be near ground zero in Hiroshima.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        That was *Change You Can Believe In*

    3. Tom 7 Silver badge

      @DCfusor

      thats the 1% we supposedly just voted our. What happens to the 99% or algae to keep up the alliteration?

    4. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      "Change is a chance for the agile and alert to beat the status quo."

      Bingo!

  7. Yugguy

    FFS Calm Down Kids!

    People want to sell. People want to buy.

    It will still happen.

    Give it a month Morny Stannit will be clamouring to get back in.

    Wankers.

    1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Re: FFS Calm Down Kids!

      Yes we want to sell. We sell advanced medical equipment from the other side of the pond.

      To sell in the Eu we met one set of CE technical requirements, registered with one regulator, filed one set of patents and registered a single contact address with a lawyer in Belgium.

      This gets us 500M potential customers.

      Are we going to duplicate all that for the UK? Even if they just adopt all the current Eu standards and we just need to do the paperwork it may not be worth it. If we have to repeat all the testing to different BSI rather than CE specs - tough. It's not worth us doing that for Japan or Korea and certainly not for the UK.

      1. boltar Silver badge

        Re: FFS Calm Down Kids!

        "Are we going to duplicate all that for the UK? Even if they just adopt all the current Eu standards and we just need to do the paperwork it may not be worth it."

        Poor norway and switzerland. Their hospitals must be hideous warehouses full of diseased patients and no equipment. Oh wait, norway was voted the nicest place to live in the world by one survey recently. I guess they didn't take into account medical care!

        Still, I'm sure if you don't want to sell your yank equipment here some nice european or UK manufacturer will.

        1. Lotaresco

          Re: FFS Calm Down Kids!

          That's Norway that didn't waste its natural resources but invested in a fund that backs every Norwegian citizen with a cash surplus. I take it you also refer to the Switzerland that took all the Nazi gold, invested in banking and money laundering and developed some impressively profitable (and impressively corrupt) pharmaceutical, chemical and engineering businesses.

          Perhaps you could indicate what equivalent the UK has?

          BTW, having lived and worked in Switzerland, I know about the social problems they suffer. You may care to check their stats on suicide and substance abuse. The area around Neuchatel was (and may still be) and area where heroin addiction and all the consequent social problems was rife. Seeing the place on a skiing holiday doesn't expose you to all of Switzerland. It has a significant dark side.

        2. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

          Re: FFS Calm Down Kids!

          We sell in Switzerland, they accept CE and Eu accreditation. We don't even need to register with the Swiss authorities and our German salesforce can work there freely.

          But they didn't just vote to have nothing to do with the rest of Europe.

          Can you guarantee what the UK medical device rules are going to be in 5years ?

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: FFS Calm Down Kids!

            I think UK has two options re med regs. Invent its own or adopt ones based on the ICH harmonization which is being largely agreed between EU and US at moment.

            No bonfire of regulations there.

            1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

              Re: FFS Calm Down Kids!

              The problem is the cost and delay while they don't decide.

              We had almost a years delay on selling a system because the US didn't adopt ISO-some-long-number::2014 but stuck to ISO-some-long-number::2012 while the component supplier moved to the new one. There is no difference (that I have been able to find) but you can't sell a medical device that doesn't meet the correct one.

              Having staff sitting around for a year while the UK goes through 1000s of regs and decides what to accept and then there are legal and procedural challenges that decide what effect each of these has on 1000s of other docs. This might not be a big deal for Siemens or Philips but would sink us.

              1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

                Re: FFS Calm Down Kids!

                "We had almost a years delay on selling a system because the US didn't adopt ISO-some-long-number::2014 but stuck to ISO-some-long-number::2012 while the component supplier moved to the new one."

                I thought you said the problem was with the UK, not the US. And if you don't have the ISO numbers at your fingertips do you expect us to believe that you're really your company's strategist when it comes to regulations?

                In the meantime, it's no change so if you want to sell stuff here under the current EU regs you can do so. If potential customers can put up with the whining.

          2. Rainer

            Re: FFS Calm Down Kids!

            > But they didn't just vote to have nothing to do with the rest of Europe.

            There was a public vote (1992, IIRC), to NOT join the EU.

            The Swiss parliament has recently officially retracted the membership application from back then (it was "on hold", for 24 years...).

            Switzerland has negotiated a large number of bilateral treaties with EU and member-states to facilitate easier trade and free flow of people (and unlike the UK, is a member of Schengen).

            However, recently a public vote asked the government to limit immigration (which is actually not possible with current EU treaties) - among over reasons because it's a relatively small country and the actual habitable area is even smaller.

            I do live there, since 11 years actually and as such I'm an immigrant.

            But I do believe that a country - any country - must have some sort of control about who it's going to let inside. "Nobody" and "everybody" are clearly two completely unsustainable extremes.

        3. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: FFS Calm Down Kids!

          Seems France and Italy handily outrank Norway and Switzerland for good healthcare though huh?

        4. Richard 12 Silver badge

          Re: FFS Calm Down Kids!

          Boltar:

          Norway and Switzerland both obey everything the EU imposes blindly and without discussion.

          If you think that is in any way better then I have a bridge for sale.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: FFS Calm Down Kids!

        "We sell advanced medical equipment from the other side of the pond."

        I work for a British Company that also sells "advanced medical equipment" and we need to ensure our equipment conforms to the rules of whichever country/trading block we are selling to, whether it is the EU, the USA, Canada or Korea etc etc

        We are a small company (less than 50 employees) with a relatively small turnover, yet it isn't a significant burden for us, so what's your excuse?

        I voted remain (and from comments at work so did everyone else there) and this is of concern for us, but it will NOT stop us from trading with the EU or anywhere else.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Assumptions, assumptions...

    In general, for the IT industry this is not good - the question is how it unfolds and how the industry can recover its position."

    So it is not good, but also remains to be seen how things unfold. But if it's not clear how things unfold then how can you already conclude that it's not good?

    I'm getting a little tired of all the negative propaganda. "It's not good at all, but we don't know what's going to happen". Yeah, and if the economy does veer up and becomes stronger again, then what are those guys going to say?

    I'm not claiming that it is going to be great (I simply don't know, even though I personally believe that it's going to be) but what's with all the negativity? Sore losers perhaps?

    1. keithpeter
      Windows

      Re: Assumptions, assumptions...

      @ShelLuser

      For many businesses, the 'not good' evaluation would simply reflect the uncertainty. The OA goes on to mention a planning cycle.

      I'd imagine those managing civil engineering projects of any size are also wondering how to get all this on the Gantt chart.

      1. Matt Bryant Silver badge
        Meh

        Re: keithpeter Re: Assumptions, assumptions...

        "....wondering how to get all this on the Gantt chart." Amusing as it is to imagine many a PHB scratching their heads at the possible impacts, the majority of manglement I have dealt with seem to have a hard time planning further than their next lunch! The reality is, even if Article 50 was enacted today, there would be a full two years minimum that the UK would still be tied to running with existing EU regs, so for most projects it will be zero actual change or impact involved. The fun bit is any new EU regs that get brought in during the negotiation period after the Article 50 announcement, which Brussels may want to force on the UK as part of the negotiations.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: keithpeter Assumptions, assumptions...

          Article 50 reads to me as two years maximum.

          "The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period."

          And EU regulations are enacted into British law. With UK detached from EU law i understand those enactments could suddenly find themselves challengeable to their legal standing.

          1. aregross

            Re: keithpeter Assumptions, assumptions...

            "...attempt to disentangle themselves from the United Kingdom."

            Problem Number 1, it seems.

          2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

            Re: keithpeter Assumptions, assumptions...

            "And EU regulations are enacted into British law. With UK detached from EU law i understand those enactments could suddenly find themselves challengeable to their legal standing."

            A little task for Team Leave to sort out. Maybe IDS could take a look at it. He did so well with Universal Credit...

          3. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: keithpeter Assumptions, assumptions...

            My goodness, I'm so glad we have a real expert on UK and EU law to tell us about Article 50.

            1. Matt Bryant Silver badge
              Boffin

              Re: AC Re: keithpeter Assumptions, assumptions...

              "....UK and EU law to tell us about Article 50." Well, that's where it gets interesting!

              The current economic uncertainty affects all the EU, which is why Junker and Hollande are screaming that the UK must enact Article 50 (the "leaving" mechanism in the Treaty On European Union, aka TEU) at once and get negotiations going. There is nothing in the TEU that allows the EU to force the UK to submit an Article 50 request, so they are just sprouting hot air and should really shut up and read their own treaty (http://www.lisbon-treaty.org/wcm/the-lisbon-treaty/treaty-on-european-union-and-comments/title-6-final-provisions/137-article-50.html). The UK is set for a period of uncertainty regardless, so drawing out the period before submitting the Article 50 request is probably in the UK's interest as it turns the screws on Junker and co. The referendum puts the onus on the UK to make an Article 50 declaration, but the timetable for that is the UK's to pick and choose, not the rest of the EU. If we wanted, we could go another fifty years before making our Article 50 request and all the EU could do is whine.

              At worst, the rest of the EU could try to eject the UK through Article 7 of the TEU, which allows for suspension of a member state. Article 7 is intended to be used against countries subverting common democratic principles, so the idea of trying to suspend a country for following a democratic referendum and an EU treaty Article would be a hard one to get through even the biased EU system!

              Until the UK does submit the Article 50 request it is a fully-paid up member of the EU, which means the way that it has been excluded from EU meetings in the last week is actually against the EU's own rules. Not until the Article 50 notice is made can the UK be excluded from the EU Council or any other EU decision.

              Even after the Article 50 notice goes in, the UK has a period of maximum two years to negotiate the unbinding of EU laws and treaties unless the negotiating country and the EU Council agree an extension to negotiations. Going back to the uncertainty, it is again in the UK's interest to turn the screws by dragging out the negotiations for as long as possible to get the best deal for the UK. In the meantime, EU laws still apply and trade is unaffected.

              So, the UK is quite entitled to take its time and do things carefully, especially as two years will be a very short period to push through the number of new laws that will have to be enacted to replace some existing EU ones (many can simply be replaced with old laws still on the books, but some, such as tech laws, have evolved a long way since we joined the EU). But the important one is that the UK Parliament has to repeal the European Communities Act, something which cannot be done just by Prime Ministerial decree. - the minute that is repealed, existing English (and Scottish) laws come into force, so it is unlikely to be implemented until negotiations have concluded. Until then, EU laws apply, including all the trade, travel and employment bits.

              So, I suspect it will be much closer to two-and-a-half years before the European Communities Act is repealed (six months of Tory leader selection, followed by the Article 50 notice and then two years of negotiations), unless the EUers swallow their pride and come to the table with a good offer right after the Article 50 announcement.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Assumptions, assumptions...

        Oh those annoying Gnat charts.

    2. Matt Bryant Silver badge
      Boffin

      Re: ShelLuser Re: Assumptions, assumptions...

      ".....but what's with all the negativity?...." Well, from a purely business perspective, change of any sort introduces costs and requires planning, whereas stability means you can just carry on as you were. The problem for businesses is the Brexit introduces uncertainty, which makes planning even harder and more costly - staying on a sinking ship when you can predict the rate of sink makes for a more predictable business environment (especially when you can kick the can down the road for someone else to deal with) than jumping overboard and swimming to shore (will there be sharks in the water, or cannibals on the beach?). Hence the negativity amongst "business leaders". But, what business leaders want and what the average Joe on the street wants may not align. The problem for those business leaders promoting the predictability of continuing in the EU - basically, following the herd - was that the 2008 recession and the experience with the Greek bailout showed that following the herd off a cliff is sometimes not the smart thing for the average Joe in the street to do.

      1. Nifty

        Re: ShelLuser Assumptions, assumptions...

        It's a plain old crisis. Which means a threat and an opportunity. Remember, after the 2008 crash many the best maths boffins went to work on startups in California with some great outcomes. Unintended consequences aren't always bad.

    3. Richard 12 Silver badge

      Re: Assumptions, assumptions...

      "Not good" because nobody knows whether it will be a little bit worse, a lot worse or a complete and total disaster.

      The direction is generally agreed by everyone who examined the evidence, while the magnitude is not.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Assumptions, assumptions...

      The issues suffered by the populace will only change with a change in how politics and and business are done. If the public has no visibility and there is no accountability then IT workers along with all others will continue to have a tough time. Social Democracy ie the Scandinavian countries is a step in the right direction, whether one is in the EU or not.

  9. Matt Bryant Silver badge
    Stop

    WTF?

    Someone tell Gav that Remain lost so it's a bit late to be running "Project Fear" pieces.

    As to tech companies relocating, the usual driver is not wages but taxes - if international companies can still have their offices in the UK and pay their tax in Luxembourg or Switzerland then nothing will change. International tech companies treat all the individual EU countries as individual markets and pay their corporate taxes where it's cheapest already. The EU would have to unify their tax system to kill that advantage, something they have shown they cannot do.

    And do you really think the EU countries want all their ex-pats currently working in London to have to come home to their depressed employment markets? Just imagine - an actual British person serving in a London Starbucks instead of a Continental! The reason all those foreigners (many of them being graduates) are working in low-paid jobs in London is because companies did not just prioritise on wages, otherwise the companies would all be based in Athens or Lisbon and those Continental grads would be working in high-paid tech jobs there.

    And despite all the predictable whining from the Fwench and Junker throwing a tantrum (mainly because Junker is terrified the current corporate tax benefits to Luxembourg will get negated by an independent UK), it's still in the EU's interest to not cut off their own noses out of spite. One little memo from the Treasury on the possible tax benefits of an import duty on wine and vehicles - to encourage British wine-making and car manufacturing, naturally - would shut the Fwench up. With the majority of UK exports going outside the EU it is the EU economies that would be burnt worst by a trade war.

    1. ckm5

      Re: WTF?

      Hmm, I've been a executive at a bunch of tech companies and have never, ever heard of any decision being made solely on the basis of taxes, it's not even a topic of discussion. Prime focus is availability of talent, then access to markets & capital. Brexit means loosing access to both a giant talent pool and a giant market. At this point, Amsterdam, Berlin or Dublin would be far better choices for any tech companies and I know a large number of high-profile tech companies are seriously rethinking where to focus their European efforts.

      1. This post has been deleted by a moderator

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: WTF?

          The kiddies don't seem to understand that the countries of Europe existed before the EU came into being...

  10. Elmars

    There goes the EU data Safe Harbor business

    This seriously sucks for foreign companies using hosting services in the UK to meet EU data residency requirements. The UK was a great place to park the apps, and came with english language support at no extra charge. Now with the UK out of the EU, it will become much more difficult to explain to continental customers that their data is safe. Before that is the even harder part - explaining this to the sales team - and you can never be sure they don't mess up the message.

    So... no choice but to move. Ireland? Germany? Sigh.

    1. petur
      Facepalm

      Re: There goes the EU data Safe Harbor business

      "So... no choice but to move. Ireland? Germany? Sigh."

      Come to Belgium. We already have Google so it must be good for privacy ?

    2. Matt Bryant Silver badge
      WTF?

      Re: Elmars Re: There goes the EU data Safe Harbor business

      "This seriously sucks for foreign companies using hosting services in the UK to meet EU data residency requirements.... no choice but to move....." Er, why? UK-based companies can still comply with the EU rules, there is no disadvantage there compared to EU-based companies. But, UK-based companies can now take a more flexible approach to non-EU customers, such as the US, whilst EU-based companies cannot. Take the example of a big US healthcare company like McKesson, say they want to build a DR center for US patients' data, and the choices are the UK or France. With the UK post-Brexit they may just have to worry about the existing cost of HIPPA compliance, but if they go to France they have to add the cost and complexity of complying with EU rules as well as HIPPA. So the UK option now has a cost and simplicity advantage as well as a language advantage (oh, and we don't have the French Union problems either).

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Elmars There goes the EU data Safe Harbor business

        "(oh, and we don't have the French Union problems either)"

        This means you don't have enough citizens willing to stand up for their right to earn a living wage.

        People could work for a bit less if there was single healthcare, including Dental, Optical and Prescription; and free higher education with a stipend for living.

        But who wants to live in a society that works for its citizens.

    3. DropBear Silver badge

      Re: There goes the EU data Safe Harbor business

      Let's just put it that way - don't expect any new large scale data centre deployments...

  11. Steve 114
    Boffin

    Didn't

    We didn't vote to 'leave the single market'. We voted to leave the 'European Union'. In theory (if not in prospect) there could still be 'free trade' in goods - and there never has been in services anyway. And I haven't heard we're leaving the (very different) 'Council of Europe' and its silly offshoot the ECHR. Pity.

    1. Tomato42 Silver badge
      Facepalm

      Re: Didn't

      you think UK will get access to common market without a deal like Norway? ha! not if French have anything to say about it (psst: they do)

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Didn't

      Ummm... The silly offshoot, the ECHR? What is it, exactly, that you object to with the ECHR?

      1. Lotaresco
        WTF?

        Re: Didn't

        Ummm... The silly offshoot, the ECHR? What is it, exactly, that you object to with the ECHR?

        Maybe the Legal Entity in question objects to namby-pamby rules that prevent them being tortured and arbitrarily killed by their own government?

    3. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

      Re: Didn't

      "In theory (if not in prospect) there could still be 'free trade' in goods"

      You actually believe that?

      Hope you didn't vote based in that...

      1. Yamal Dodgy Data

        Re: Didn't

        @ anonymous boring coward

        The worst retaliation the EU can throw at Blighty is a 3% tariff in goods permissible under the WTO.

        More than that they risk a trade war, not just with the UK, but with the almost 100 signatories of the WTO.

        Of course there will be an FTA with the EU.

        Are you really expecting Stuka's will start hovering over Dover, because Brits decided to get out ?

        Fortress EU is an economic basket case with a €54,652,083,000,000 ticking derivatives bomb called Deutsche Bank sitting at the centre of it all.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Didn't

      "We didn't vote to 'leave the single market'. We voted to leave the 'European Union'"

      Actually virtually all the Leave propaganda assumed that we did leave the Single Market. Staying in it would mean signing up for a whole lot of treaties which would have the effect of imposing most of the EU rules on us with no seat on the Commission, no MEPs and no influence.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Didn't

        > Actually virtually all the Leave propaganda assumed that we did leave the Single Market. Staying in it would mean signing up for a whole lot of treaties which would have the effect of imposing most of the EU rules on us with no seat on the Commission, no MEPs and no influence.

        And no rebate. So we would be subject to the same rules, but paying more into the coffers.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Didn't

        And then Hannan has now backtracked, implied that EFTA is a possibility, said immigration might go up and stated that at no point did they say there would be no immigration. We've been had...

    5. Paul Shirley

      Re: Didn't

      @Steve 114 you haven't heard it because they haven't told the uk it's leaving. Yet. But we weren't invited to this week's meeting...

  12. Slx

    The huge problem is instability! There's no roadmap.

    Talking to businesses today, the big problem is that there is no roadmap.

    Boris, Nigel and the chaps are going to go over and jolly well give Brussels a good talking to and it will all be fine apparently.

    I have no idea: how long this will take, what kind of trade agreements will emerge, what the situation is with freedom of movement of EU nations in / out, if there are restrictions how will they work, what kind of work permit system will be in place.

    Add to that that Sterling has gone into a period of unprecedented volatility which means that companies will avoid contracting in GBP, opting for predictable currency or waiting for stability instead.

    The UK is presenting the world is something like : "Hey, we're leaving the EU but we can't really be quite sure when and we're working on some trade agreements, except oh actually we're not as nobody's started that yet.. But, tally-ho, this is Great Britain and everything will be fine!"

    Unfortunately, that's not a climate I can do business in.

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Business, including Banking, are risks. What, ever increasingly, large Corporations have been able to do is buy Politicians and thereby being allowed to write tax law and business treaties like the TTIP. This ameliorates these risks and further institutionalizes their control. All this joining together of Nations is wonderful as an ideal it is the practice and fairness of it that is difficult and since the general political shift to the right, by which I mean far right, that started in the late 1970s we cannot trust that Governments are working in the favour of the citizenry but rather that of the Oligopolies that now appear to rule "First World" nations.

    Democracy is a very delicate state of governance that has been allowed to deteriorate through apathy. People tend to trust their Governments when times are easy like they have been in the First World for last couple of generations. It appears that is changing.

  14. Anonymous Coward
    WTF?

    Oh noes!!!!

    "Tech firms reel from Leave's Brexit win" - It was such a surprise!! I mean they didn't even know there was going to be a vote!!

    Oh come on, who writes this, the tea boy?

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    If you work in British IT you've just dodged a bullet

    Anyone remember the India-European Union Free Trade Agreement (India-EU FTA) ?

    Quote: "will give skilled Indian IT workers, engineers and managers easy passage into Europe "

    Final negotiations resume NEXT MONTH .. the only reason the treaty had been stalled for three years was due to "British recalcitrance", i.e. Theresa May and Cameron's (yes, sometimes he's useful) opposition.

    If anyone has been reading the India media today, you'll know they're livid about the UK not being part of this now.

    Once you've googled up the India-EU FTA, try "Deutche Bank derivatives exposure + EU member taxpayer guarantee"

    .. You'll realise you've also dodged a nuke

  16. DrXym Silver badge

    All entirely predictable

    Tech companies aren't going to invest any money in the UK when they have no idea what the hell is happening. Same for most industries. They'll just start developing plans to move their centre of operations somewhere else which is part of the EU, e.g. Ireland.

    The UK needs to get some certainty into the situation and fast. e.g. fast track plans to join the European Economic Area. It's still a terrible choice compared to remain (all the rules, none of the influence) but its still better than uncertainty.

  17. Howard Hanek Bronze badge
    Childcatcher

    Reel?

    You must have meant........get real? Tech companies HAVE been reeling....IT in and now they must get real, surely.

  18. BonerNose
    Headmaster

    Say what?

    "...could care less..."

    Grrrrrr.....

  19. Anonymous Coward
    FAIL

    Children

    Why is it that all you remainers who didn't get what you wanted come across so bloody immature, petulant, childish, over-entitled and whiney?

    One of you even wrote here that they were going to have 'a beer and a cry'. Really? Grow up, grow some balls. Britain has voted. Deal with it. Or piss off and take your 'skills' with you. You're no loss.

    1. Richard 12 Silver badge

      Re: Children

      Because you Leavers won't get any of what you wanted either.

      You were lied to. We tried to tell you, but you wouldn't listen. You wanted to believe the lies so much that you ripped off your ears and stuck your fingers in your eyes.

      Gove: "We've had enough of experts", Farage "I never meant the NHS could have any of that"...

      All you've managed to do is screw everyone.

    2. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

      Re: Children

      "Britain has voted. Deal with it. Or piss off and take your 'skills' with you. You're no loss."

      There is nothing quite like a sore and bitter winner...

      I would have thought you would be all sunshine and charm now when things are looking so rosy?

    3. Paul Shirley

      Re: Children

      "Or piss off and take your taxes to somewhere else"

      Tempting for those of us able to retain EU citizenship. Not really interested in funding Boris' next bleach job.

    4. sabroni Silver badge

      Re: Britain has voted.

      To stop immigration and give the NHS £350 million a week.

      Ever get the feeling you've been had?

  20. noboard

    Durr

    "Microsoft had endorsed the remain cause and blasted Brexiters but contacted by The Reg, refused to provide statment on Friday morning's vote outcome."

    Oi reg, have you forgotten while MS said stay in the eu they were outsourcing jobs to the EU state of India? There's no one left in their EU offices now so you need to call another office if you want a reply.

  21. SeanC4S

    As an act of revenge for social inequality it was surely rather effective.

  22. This post has been deleted by a moderator

    1. This post has been deleted by a moderator

  23. Baldy50

    Some recent history of the pound falling suddenly, well four really bad ones that is and we're still here.

    1971 Pound moves 3.4% after Nixon Shock -- cancellation of the direct international convertibility of the United States dollar to gold.

    1 November 1978 4.3% "Winter of discontent" shakes global investors confidence in UK's economy.

    16 September 1992 4.29% when the UK exited the exchange rate mechanism.

    20 Jan 2009 Pound slides 3.9% at the peak of the financial crisis following the demise of Lehman Brothers.

    So history will remember this one for sure, It reached something like 10 percent so pretty bad.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jun/26/how-will-brexit-affect-britains-trade-with-europe

    The global markets have far more to fear in the future as other EU countries are almost as disillusioned as we are and will affect global economies just as badly as Brexit if more leave, so EU leaders please take the cotton wool out your ears.

    Winston Churchill gave a speech in Zurich in 1946 recommending that France should lead Germany into a United States of Europe.

    The German economy has made unbelievable gains since reunification and hats off to them they know what they are doing and have consistently proved it, Frances economy hasn't kept pace though in comparison and really don't want a tit for tat trade war with any of the EU states.

    Saying that what about the hijacking of imported milk and wine tankers, pouring them out by the roadside by two EU members farmers, think the cracks are getting pretty big in the EURO ZONE! That would never happen here, would it?

    Enjoyed reading all your comments BTW.

  24. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Good!

    Tech companies are the scummiest exploiters of cheap foreign labour. In America they frequently abuse the H1-B visas. They also support the politics which promote open borders and multiculturalism... very pro-Hillary.

    And if you speak out against this you are branded a racist.

    Be glad that their days of exploitation are soon to be over.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: They also support the politics which promote open borders and multiculturalism.

      Good, because closed borders and monoculturalism are crap!

  25. topchem
    WTF?

    #Bruck!

  26. captainbrexit

    opportunites

    Those worried about the effect of brexit on the economy should search for this guy on youtube "Patrick Young shares optimism about UK economy" and listen why the firms from around the world choose the flexible labour mkt of the UK against the rest of Europe

    1. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

      Re: opportunites

      "Patrick Young shares optimism about UK economy"

      Guess he must be right, since the louder you shout the more right you are..

      Has he heard of that thing called a "microphone"?

      People need to decode some things:

      "Flexible labour market" means: "more exploitation, hollowed out workers' rights"

      The U.K. will move more towards a USA style society. It's already leaning that way, but will go more in that direction. Market analysts and investors really don't give a crap about workers' rights and conditions. It doesn't show on their radar, nor in their calculations.

  27. Ensate
    Happy

    Brexit will never actually happen

    Its already started. The brakes are going on. We will have negotiation after negotiation on various treaties, until the voting public cant remember exactly what we voted for anyway. The EU will come to a settlement of some description, which allows us all to keep trading, and everyone to keep moving about freely. We will end up having to abide by EU rules to trade with them. No doubt some money will need to be paid by us as part of the treaty. In short, the politicians can relabel and call it what they like to claim victory, we will be in the EU by proxy. Status quo resumed and the world wont end. In the mean time, the press will be full of hyperbole and bluster. Nigel Farage will rant a lot. Facebook will be full of angry arm chair politicians. Ultimately, different day, same shit. Nothing to see here, move along everyone :-)

    1. I'm Brian and so's my wife

      Re: Brexit will never actually happen

      When the next Euro crisis happens, the begging bowl will be out.

      Euro army - they may respect our veto, but the begging bowl will be out.

      Migrant crisis - the begging bowl will be out.

      Our economy does better than the continent - the begging bowl will be out.

      At some point they'll be suggesting harmonising tax rates (with no consideration of the consequences for individual countries), starting with VAT and with half a percent reserved for EU funding. The EU never, ever shrinks.

      The harmonisation will move on to corporate rates.

      Why stop there? Income tax rates next.

      When a smaller group moves to completely integrate, we'll be left on the periphery anyway.

      All of this will take place with the backdrop of increasing regulation, with Juncker having already stated that there was no opportunity for further reform or compromise.

      I am a British citizen and want to remain a British citizen. I don't want to be a European citizen, so voting Leave was the only real choice. Of course I'm pissed off, they made me gamble my union for theirs!

      1. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

        Re: Brexit will never actually happen

        "I am a British citizen and want to remain a British citizen. I don't want to be a European citizen, so voting Leave was the only real choice"

        Excuse me?

        Was there a push to replace UK citizenship with something else (that doesn't exist)?

        I must have missed something...

        1. I'm Brian and so's my wife

          Re: Brexit will never actually happen

          Check your passport and tell me if it doesn't say "European Union" anywhere on the front cover. If it does, then yes, I'd say you missed something.

          As another example of the kind of suite of institutions that comprise the EU, you may have heard of the Common Fisheries Policy? The Council of Ministers was advised that the Treaty of Rome did not give any authority for the CPF to operate, yet they continued with it and failed to admit this to member states. This was only sneakily corrected twenty years later in the Maastricht Treaty.

          No thanks.

          1. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

            Re: Brexit will never actually happen

            "Check your passport and tell me if it doesn't say "European Union" anywhere on the front cover. If it does, then yes, I'd say you missed something."

            Huh? Please explain.

      2. Ensate

        Re: Brexit will never actually happen

        I think your missing the point. Vote in, Vote out. The end result is the same.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Brexit will never actually happen

          It's "you're" which means "you are"

          And do get a head examination.

          1. Ensate

            Re: Brexit will never actually happen

            No need to be nasty. How about not hiding behind AC. I know its you're not your. Im tired, and made a typo. Now back to the issue in hand. The majority have voted to leave. Excellent, but what is it they voted to leave? The leave campaign has hardly been straight about what basis they will negotiate with the EU. It will be years before we move forward to leaving, and between now and then is at least one, maybe two general elections. In which case the government will follow the mandate given to them in the manifesto they were elected on. No doubt this whole storm in a teacup will fade into the background and disappear. No everyone calm down, get a cup of tea, and smile. This whole thing isn't worth the nastiness that seems to be spreading.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Brexit will never actually happen

              Glad your real name is "ensate".

              You don't vote for a major change that can't be undone in a generation unless you know wtf you are voting for. Well, lots did it seems, and they all need head examinations.

              So your confused ramblings are just that. Nothing else.

              Perhaps there is a way out of the mess, but it still would result in MAJOR loss of influence and privileges within the EU. A good agreement negotiated by Cameron is already null and void. So "well done" if you voted Leave for a laugh.

              1. Ensate

                Re: Brexit will never actually happen

                I didnt. I voted remain, because I think its the better option.However I dont think on balance the world is going to end going forward.

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: Brexit will never actually happen

                  The world is not going to end. The U.K. will just be a more insular place, with fewer prospects. I bet the younger generations will start to feel cramped in the UK, when they used to have unfettered access to a whole continent, no questions asked. Freedom is a nice thing.

                  1. Matt Bryant Silver badge
                    Paris Hilton

                    Re: AC Re: Brexit will never actually happen

                    ".... I bet the younger generations will start to feel cramped in the UK, when they used to have unfettered access to a whole continent...." Yes, because - obviously! - no-one from the UK travelled anywhere outside the UK before the EU came into existence! Er, not!

                    Even if full-on visa requirements for travel to the EU were put in place tomorrow it would be no more daunting than the requirements that currently exist for travel to places like Thailand. Last time I checked, plenty of UK yoof getting out to Phuket, Koh Samet, Patong or Haad Rin (and they're far more fun than anywhere in the EU).

                    /Paris - for Phuket, obviously.

                    1. Anonymous Coward
                      Anonymous Coward

                      Re: AC Brexit will never actually happen

                      "Yes, because - obviously! - no-one from the UK travelled anywhere outside the UK before the EU came into existence!"

                      Who's talking about "travelling"?

                      I'm talking about choosing where you want to work and live.

                      It's probably typical of a Brexiter to only see the would outside the UK as somewhere one can have a holiday. There is non need for EU for that kind of travel. None at all.

                      But thanks for voting Brexit based on that, and some fairytales.

                      1. Matt Bryant Silver badge
                        FAIL

                        Re: AC Re: AC Brexit will never actually happen

                        ".....I'm talking about choosing where you want to work and live....." LOL, so no-one ever worked abroad before the EU? Shall we look at a little history? The right to freedom to work anywhere in the EEC countries was solidified in the 1992 Treaty of Maastricht, at which time I had already been living and working both on the Continent and outside the EU, and I was most definitely not the exception. The actual right to pick where you live irrespective of where or even if you worked, in the European Economic Area, wasn't granted until 2004. So you are clearly wrong.

                        ".....typical of a Brexiter...." It would seem you are the one labouring under some misconceptions of those that voted for Brexit, some glaring holes in your knowledge of history, and a complete lack of knowledge of the EU which you seem to unquestioningly hold in such hold in such high esteem. You're not doing a very good job of convincing anyone that Remainers are somehow the more educated on the subject.

                        1. Anonymous Coward
                          Anonymous Coward

                          Re: AC AC Brexit will never actually happen

                          It's really odd that movement of labour has increased dramatically within EU compared to before EU. Must be the placebo effect..

                          Your reasoning is analogous to saying that "people could travel perfectly well between London and Birmingham before the railway was introduced, so train travel makes no difference".

                          Yes, it was perfectly possible. And, no, EU still makes a massive difference.

                          1. Matt Bryant Silver badge
                            FAIL

                            Re: AC AC Brexit will never actually happen

                            "....Your reasoning is analogous to saying that "people could travel perfectly well between London and Birmingham before the railway was introduced, so train travel makes no difference"....." Your original post was the equivalent to suggesting that removing the train service between Birmingham and London would not only stop all youth traveling between the two cities, but somehow render them incapable of traveling anywhere else.

                2. Ensate

                  Re: Brexit will never actually happen

                  Its really easy to be condescending and assert that anyone who votes different to you is racist, stupid, needs their "head examining", or many other negative things. The reality is everyone I know who voted leave did it because of genuine concerns about the EU.

                  As i have said, I voted remain. However instead of nasty name calling lets look at the facts here. Voting remain was a vote to stay as we are (a known quantity), voting leave was voting for an unknown quantity. Its entirely possible that leaving the EU will work out well..... but that's going to take decades to work out.

                  In the mean time the process of actually leaving the EU isn't like flicking a light switch, and anyone who has ever worked anywhere near the public sector knows just how slowly government offices work on anything. It doesn't matter whether you voted leave or remain. We will be in for a long while yet, and it is extremely likely that a general election will happen before we leave, meaning all bets are off. In short nothing has changed.

                  1. This post has been deleted by its author

                  2. Anonymous Coward
                    Anonymous Coward

                    Re: Brexit will never actually happen

                    "You don't vote for a major change that can't be undone in a generation unless you know wtf you are voting for. Well, lots did it seems, and they all need head examinations."

                    I mearly meant that voting for a massive change that can't be undone, without even bothering to find out the facts first, is stupid. Yes, STUPID.

                    You and your friends perhaps had all facts and didn't mind if rejoing the EU wouldn't be possible until after you were all dead. If so, fine.

                    If we had voted Stay, a rethink 5 years down the line would have been possible. No such rethinking is possible after leaving.

  28. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "...voters’ decision to leave the single European market"

    Nope - "we" voted to leave the EU, not necessarily the single market. Leave campaigners are already backtracking and Hannan is suggesting we stay in the EFTA (with freedom of movement) and that immigration might go UP!

  29. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

    Get one up on the Germans

    So I spoke to a Brexiter, whose reason to vote for Brexit was to "get one up on the Germans" (payback for football results).

    Yup, I'm not making this up.

    The person is very well off and retired since a long time thanks to being so well off, and in his 60s I guess. So obviously any kind of result doesn't matter to him personally.

    That's probably the sort of voters that make up a significant portion of Brexit votes.

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