back to article Fedora 24 is here. Go ahead – dive in

Fedora 24 is here, packing not just the standard group of changes familiar to any distro update, but also changes to fundamental elements. The biggest news in the default desktop version that I looked at – called Fedora Workstation 24 – is GNOME 3.20 and the continuing improvements to support for Wayland, the graphic stack …

  1. wolfetone Silver badge
    Pint

    Agree.

    I stopped using Fedora at around Fedora 18 to venture to pastures new, but when I bought a new laptop last year I decided to give Fedora 23 a try. It's come on leaps and bounds, GNOME actually works (and is quite lovely, especially with the Numix theme).

    After I finish the project I'm working on I'll upgrade 23 to 24, but this all looks very polished. The Fedora guys have gotten their act together at long last.

    1. Tom 64
      Boffin

      Re: Agree.

      Been using fedora since 22 and have been converted. If you want a daily dirver which is very up-to-date and hasstle free, its well worth an install. I'll take this over ubuntu any day.

    2. asdf Silver badge

      Re: Agree.

      Might as well dive in. You will be pretty much looking at what will pass for the POSIX standard in three years with it. Sigh.

  2. Michael H.F. Wilkinson Silver badge

    May well give this a spin

    Sounds like a distro worth looking into. Ubuntu had a sad tendency to lock my older laptop so frequently that I reverted to OpenSUSE, but Fedora's astro spin in particular seems interesting

  3. kryptylomese

    Fedora > Ubuntu (now)

  4. Pascal Monett Silver badge

    "screenshots are problematic"

    That's a bit unfortunate. Like buying a Ferrari and being told that the windshield wipers don't always work. I'm sure it'll get fixed, but it is unfortunate.

    That said, it looks like I'll be giving this distro a spin in the near future.

    1. Anonymous Curd
      Joke

      Re: "screenshots are problematic"

      So, like buying a Ferrari then?

      1. Bucky 2
        Coat

        Re: "screenshots are problematic"

        Carbon on the valves. Anyone? Anyone? Crap, I'm old.

        1. Zimmer
          Go

          Re: "screenshots are problematic"

          Carbon on the Valves?

          RedEx, mate, RedEx...

    2. keithpeter
      Coat

      Re: "screenshots are problematic"

      This screenshot thing has been going on for ages with wayland. Feature or bug?

  5. Will Godfrey Silver badge
    Unhappy

    Sandbox?

    Having read a more detailed report on this from Another Respected Source I see a problem with this forced containerisation. Doing high quality video and audio generation requires a lot of inter-app communication and near direct access to hardware - especially for low latency - yet a lot of this work is currently done on just modified 'standard' distros. This move could knock out a lot of semi-pro and amateur creatives.

  6. Groaning Ninny

    And Enterprise

    Now wondering what RHEL 8 will look like (in 2018? 2019?). Would that have Wayland, I wonder? I've only just started rolling out RHEL 7, but I had a whole load of infrastructure backlog to cope with from my predecessor...

  7. Down not across

    Flatpack sandboxing

    That tight sandboxing has meant that Flatpak-based apps are not yet able to pass data to other applications. For example, the Flatpak version of LibreOffice can't automatically open links in your browser.

    Maybe it is just me, but I see that as a good thing.

    1. asdf Silver badge

      Re: Flatpack sandboxing

      No cut and paste between apps though is like Linux in the 90s.

      1. asdf Silver badge

        Re: Flatpack sandboxing

        It also why I simply use x11 forwarding through ssh from my host to the full guest vm (which is for browsing). A little heavier solution and arguably a bit less secure but you get cut and paste and it basically behaves like any other X app on your desktop (and by using same gtk theme in vm app even looks native) so no futzing with Unity View etc.

  8. Jay 2

    Unless you're going to rebuild within 18 months or so, then I wouldn't entirely reccommend using Fedora as a server. It might be useful for playing with the latest and greatest, but at some point the repos will disappear (unless you make your own) and then you may have a few problems getting the required RPMs.

    That's based on my personal experience, fortunately at some point it was decided to move to CentOS which is much more stable, albeit not so bleeding edge and with old software, but much easier to support.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      A 12-24 month rebuild/replace cycle is par for the course this decade. That goes for all Linux distros, server and desktop, bleeding edge and stable/LTS alike, including "good old" Debian. You might do better with CentOS, and I with FreeBSD... we'll see... but they all have to run the same apps/libraries/services, so I'm setting low expectations.

    2. Ammaross Danan

      You do realize that Fedora was meant to be a 6-month cycle as a proving ground for new software to eventually be rolled into RHEL upon success. If you want stable or long-term support, that's exactly what RHEL (or CentOS) et al is for. Fedora is for cutting-edge; the people that want containers, the latest KVM, etc. Do your research and pick the horse for the course.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        I do. I'm talking about all Linux distros. Fedora's on the 12-month end, CentOS and RHEL on the 24-month end. I have used all three. Not a lot; too much trouble on both ends.

        LTS is a myth. It falls apart the moment you need to install a newer package that you can't even compile from source because, for example, it depends on a newer library you can't install without breaking something else. Sometimes you can sort it out if you waste enough time and/or skimp on security.

  9. Martin an gof Silver badge

    Sub pixel patents

    Fedora 24 also features some revamped font rendering tools that put it on par with Ubuntu's font rendering even though, for patent reasons, it still doesn't ship with support for subpixel rendering.

    I didn't realise it was so complicated. Acorn introduced "sub pixel font rendering" back in the late 1980s IIRC, though it wasn't specifically intended for pixel-accurate digital displays. I'd say it was maybe ten years before MS launched ClearType, and I well remember the hype around it and wondering what all the fuss was about. I doubt Acorn was first with the idea, but they were definitely years ahead of Microsoft.

    I still run a RiscOS machine, partly because it is much "easier on the eye" than even the highest resolution Windows or Linux desktops, and I prefer to use it - when possible - for word processing for that reason. Is Acorn's "sub pixel rendering" different to Microsoft's and therefore not covered by the patent? Was it sufficiently dissimilar that it couldn't be used as "prior art" to invalidate the patent? Or is it just that RiscOS is too small a fish to bother the lawyers?

    M.

  10. Lyndon Hills 1

    FreeIPA 4.3

    Is 4.3 the strength, CAMRA members want to know?

  11. DrXym Silver badge

    Wayland worked pretty well in FC23

    I was using it without issue on virtually every application. The only one which caused me trouble was Eclipse. For some reason the SWT -> GTK UI didn't open dialogs at the proper size and it was unusable. I had to switch back to X because of that. I hope it's fixed in FC24. Wayland is a long overdue replacement for X and it is tantalisingly close to becoming the default.

    1. gv

      Re: Wayland worked pretty well in FC23

      Eclipse gives me issues with GTK3, never mind Wayland.

      1. DanielsLateToTheParty

        Re: Wayland worked pretty well in FC23

        Same here, the answer is to change the start command in a "eclipse.desktop" file somewhere:

        Exec=env SWT_GTK3=0 eclipse

  12. Jim-234

    Could we perhaps get flatpacking without sandboxing

    I think the idea of Flatpacking (having each application install all it's junk into just 1 directory (tree if needed) dedicated for it) is a great idea for most applications where possible, as it would make installing, removing & upgrading so much easier.

    Having that option available without forcing Sandboxing at the same time would I think be the best of both worlds. You could then have a choice of Sandboxing or open system access depending on what your program needed to do.

  13. skies2006

    Left Ubuntu around Fedora version 19, haven't looked back since.

    Been running a Kubernetes 1.2 Docker cluster on Fedora 24 Server for a few weeks and it works like a charm, haven't had a single issue with it. Always loved the high quality of Fedora. Thanks RedHat for puting out an other great release!

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Fedora

    The OS with no phone home syndrome gnome and no snap app flap clap trap.

    I'll get my coat...mines the one with Arch installed in it that has had Gnome 3.20 for ages.

  15. DCFusor Silver badge

    Tried it. Not ready for my use.

    The default spin looks like the very same reason I ditched ubuntu - unity. Can't change to the familiar taskbar and easily create custom launchers for my own applications (I do science). Non-starter totally.

    I prefer mate or ubuntu-mate. It wasn't obvious how to do anything sysadmin in fedora (ok, there are two camps here, but I don't need another huge learning curve right now, since I also work on a lot of things debian-only like pi's or odroids). Keep working on it boys - maybe someday gnome will be the text editor the systemd operating system has always needed. I'll be erasing this to save some bits, even though I have terabytes to spare.

    1. kryptylomese

      Re: Tried it. Not ready for my use.

      Then download the Mate remix.....

  16. lsatenstein

    I will wait for Fedora24 to work for me. It is not what I want to use as it now is.

    Fedora 23 was and is a great version. I started using it with the beta version, and I am still continuing to use it.

    I will not be upgrading to Fedora 24 for the reason that follows.

    https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1342533

    Here is what I am reporting and my justification for not using F24 at this time. It does not work with my APC UPS.

    A UPS is an emergency backup power supply. It's role is to provide power to the desktop system when there is a power failure. The UPS can take over during short power failures. When there are fewer than two minutes of reserve power in the UPS, the system receives a "poweroff" message/command, from the UPS allowing previous Fedora Linux's to perform a controlled safe shutdown.

    If the UPS is not readable by Fedora 24, the system will not know about a power failure and it will run until the UPS battery is exhausted and then crash.

    So what's the big deal. When the power fails, one can lose the entire system.

    If your system is run on a spinning 7200rpm disk, the unplanned failure can perhaps damage one or two tracks of the disk in the time it takes to complete one or two disk rotations. It can do that damage in 1/5th of a millisecond (0.2ms). Most of the time the file system's journal can often be used to recover lost data.

    But when your system is based on an SSD, the entire SSD can be wiped clean in 1/100th of a millisecond or 0.01 milliseconds. The SSD's file system's journal most probably is not be able to recover, forcing a completely new Fedora 24 installation. The SSD is up to 100 times faster than a spinning disk and damage can be 100 times more extensive.

    So, for a desktop (not a laptop), if one wants data protection, the system should communicate with the UPS. That communication works fine with Fedora 23, SUSE Tumbleweed, Centos, Scientific Linux, and thus far, all Linux versions prior to Fedora 24.

    If you have a UPS connected to your desktop computer and the system does not recognize that you have a UPS, add your logon to the above bug. Bugs from individuals are not acted on, but bugs from multiple users are.

    1. Richard Lloyd

      Re: I will wait for Fedora24 to work for me. It is not what I want to use as it now is.

      UPS'es for desktop computers that auto-shutdown so many minutes after a power failure are only useful if you're regularly away from your desk and need to leave the PC on for some number-crunching exercise that is potentially longer than the UPS battery lasts.

      The APC UPS that's hooked up to my desktop beeps loudly 3 times every 15 secs or so when the power has died - even a beefy PC should have 10-15 mins of juice in the UPS left to allow for a manual shutdown. For a desktop, the main UPS benefit is that you do actually get time for a manual shutdown - I don't run any APC software on my CentOS desktops hooked up to APC UPS'es because I don't leave my PC on for long periods when I'm not there.

    2. Ammaross Danan

      Re: I will wait for Fedora24 to work for me. It is not what I want to use as it now is.

      I'd say most of your mid-to-upper range SSDs have capacitors in them to prevent corruption on sudden power loss. Maybe spend the 5 minutes to research your SSD to suit your need/worry rather than buying a cheap one?

  17. DCFusor Silver badge
    FAIL

    Not good enough for my use.

    Second try, do we not allow comments that don't agree with author's point of view here now?

    Looks just like the reason I ditched ubuntu - unity. I want control over my desktop, the ability to easily create custom launchers for apps I wrote (I do science here with a lot of custom stuff).

    I don't need another huge learning curve for sysadmin, as I also work with tons of debian-only stuff (raspberry pi, odroid, other embedded).

    I like mate better than ubuntu-mate, and having a huge learning curve to sysadmin and use all this right now is out of the question. Too much culture shock moving between machines. Well, at least it's obvious when I switch to some other machine's remote desktop...since Fedora's is so fisher-price by comparison.

    Maybe gnome will become the text editor the systemd operating system has always needed. I know why systemd exists - for a few huge customers for containerization and cloud. The rest of us may as well not exist in the business model for it. (Yes, I have friends at Red Hat who will verify just that). Fine - have fun without me.

    1. Ammaross Danan
      FAIL

      Re: Not good enough for my use.

      1) Why are you even looking at another distro (or complaining about one you had no intention on using at all anyway)?

      2) You must not have actually read the article as there's a MATE spin of Fedora 24 so you can have your preferred GUI.

      3) "gnome will become the text editor the systemd operating system...." Trolling and/or you have no clue what you're talking about. Likely both.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Not good enough for my use.

        @DCFusor - just sit back and watch the upvotes roll in once the shills move on to their next assignment and more real people dig into the comments. Tends to happen on the weekend.. you know, real jobs and all.

  18. channel extended

    GNOME Problem...

    I have given up on the GNOME people. The 3.20 desktop has less functionality than the 3.12, or even 2.xx, because they have decided what you want. Like Microsoft you will do it their way or no way. Also I have had problems with the GDM3 crashing, the error message is so helpful "OOP's an error has occured." I am currently using Kali 2.0 with an added Mate desktop and LightDM launcher.

    1. i1ya

      Re: GNOME Problem...

      It may be a bit off topic, but my experience with GDM3 is exactly opptosite. I use Arch/XFCE both on laptop and at the office, first I switched from Slim to LightDM to avoid PulseAudio issues, but around say late 2014 LightDM began to hang the X on wakeups from suspend-to-ram. I mean, not completely hung, but keyboard + mouse not responding, screens blank, and the only option I had was to restart X server via SSH, which kind of spoiled the idea of sleep mode. First this curse haunted my 3-monitor office rig, but after some time issues began to occur on the laptop too. Most annoying thing was that error was random, with about 1/3 chance of crash. So I switched to latest GDM/Gnome Screensaver combo. And know what? I use it for months without any problems. Very solid. (and disappointing from freedom-of-choice perspective)

    2. AJ MacLeod

      Re: GNOME Problem...

      A wee story... Once upon a time, long, long ago, GDM actually worked very well. Then one day some clever little boy fresh from university decided it was all written so badly he had to rewrite it from scratch. Ever since then it has been missing features which the clever boy decided weren't important because he didn't use them, bloated and generally buggy. Having also ditched KDE as a result of a similar story to the above KDM was out of the question; reluctantly I switched to the intolerably ugly XDM, discovered that it is actually incredibly versatile and themeable and far more efficient than GDM/KDM whilst actually doing what I want it to. I lived happily ever after, the end (well, for now anyway)

      PS I have no idea who botched up GDM, it may have been the original author for all I know; the code may have been hideous (I confess I didn't look) but at least it actually worked properly...

      1. Peter X

        Re: GNOME Problem...

        ^ re Gnome's bloatyness, has this not improved at all?

        I'm still running Ubuntu 14.04 on my main machine (2.6GHz quad-core i5), but I've recently been trying to use a Raspberry Pi 3 as my main machine! Yes, the Pi is much slower with many things, especially the browser (albeit Chromium on the Pi 3 is just about tolerable), but the thing that really amazes me is that the file manager (PCManFM) is *considerably* snappier on the Pi than Nautilus is on my i5.

        I do appreciate that the i5/Ubuntu setup is running compiz and therefore has a little more work to do... but even so, I'm kind of of the opinion that a file manager really shouldn't be perceptibly slow.

  19. batfastad

    Xubuntu/Mint+XFCE

    I last used Fedora quite a few years ago and since then have been switching between Mint+XFCE and Xubuntu. Hardware support on laptops just always seems to be better with Xubuntu in my experience.

    XFCE is my preferred desktop but MATE and Cinnamon are decent too. I just don't need/want all this cruft of Gnome 3, Unity etc.

    Have been using Fedora Rawhide for servers in my lab for a couple of years. Great and very stable despite being considered "unstable".

  20. sb56637

    > Most of the Mint X-apps are not included by default, though some, such as the Eye of MATE image viewer, are.

    The author is confused here, Eye of Mate is a Mate project fork of EOG and has nothing to do with the Mint X-apps.

    1. Confucious

      Except that the first 4 X-apps are forks of the corresponding MATE apps

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